25/09/2013 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Jeremy Paxman.

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building of the Olympic Park, now he has been put in charge of


another hugely costly bit of public spending. There is a new chairman's


weight on the dead man's handle at the HS2, but is the fate of the


train now passing from the realm of management to that of politics? The


chief executive of this massive project is with us.


We report on the persecution of Christians in Egypt, and one of the


first foreign journalists to enter the town liberated from Islamist


control. Too young to buy a drink and too


young to drive, yet Ed Miliband thinks they are quite old enough to


vote. Are 16-year-olds? I don't necessarily think 16-year-olds


should have a vote, simply because we are not taught enough about


politics. Lots more to come in the programme. HS2 the railway line


that has achieved the remarkable feat of being endlessly complained


about before it is built has a new boss. The new chairman is Sir David


hiinggin, a man who moves from one public sector birth as effortlessly


as a Bedouin travelling from oasis to oasis. In this case the oasis


could turn out to be a mirage. The high-speed line is looking


vulnerable. David Grossman explains why this is a new story rather than


one for the business pages. By now the mood music surrounding HS2


should be something like this, calm, harmonious, efficiency.


Unfortunately it sounds more like this. (claanking noises) The


Government has struggled to keep this project sounding sweet amid


damaging reports and damaging headlines and defections from the


cause. Tonight the Department of Transport took decisive action, out


goes the chairman and in comes someone with Olympic experience.


Out goes the man with experience as an engine and CrossRail. But there


were doubts about him being an effective noise voice for HS2, his


were doubts about him being an replacement, Mr Higgins was the


chairman of the Olympic delivery authority. Personal lie I think the


case for HS -- personally I think the case for HS2 is pretty weak. He


has been uphill task, his background is with the Olympic


has been uphill task, his delivery authority, and Network


Rail, both difficult jobs. If anyone can do it he can do it. It


is the last throw of the dice. If he can't turn around public views


about HS2, I some what suspect the next Government will quietly drop


it in some way or another. One big problem is the cost. Recently


raised poun 10 billion to -- £10 billion to £42 billion, add in


theing stock, and it is £50 -- the rolling stock and it is £50 billion.


The public accounts committee of House of Commons have ridiculed the


business case produce. Sir David needs to make the case far more


robust. An updated business case is due in


weeks to answer criticisms made by others among those the National


Audit Office. Some say they are confident, but it is not too


dramatic to conclude if this business case isn't bulletproof,


watertight and utterly compelling, the whole project could be in


jeopardy. There needs to be a better case made for HS2. It needs


to shift on capacity, the public and politicians have to buy in to


it, and David Higgins is an advocate, but it needs to be


managed much better. The costs are not as high as people are saying,


there is no doubt that Whitehall and the Treasury in particular need


more confidence on how the project is managed.


Although Labour originally proposed. HS2, tfs the Conservatives that


leapt on it, as -- it was the Conservatives that lept on it, as a


way of not expanding Heathrow and positive messages on regeneration.


But there are signs of fracturing. On Monday Ed Balls made a marked


move away from the project. It is not just whether a new high-speed


line is a good idea or a bad idea, but whether it is the best way to


spend £50 billion for the further tour of our country. The politics


of this has evolved, it used to be broadly speaking north of England


in favour, south of England less keen. However, there has been a


growing realisation among some northern cities that once the new


line is built their regular train service will become some what less


regular. Added to that there are various academic studies that


suggest that the real economic benefits will go to the south and


not the north. For example, today at the Labour


Party Conference in a BBC Daily Politics survey on HS2, Lord


Prescott gave us his view. Why Politics survey on HS2, Lord


cancel it? Because it isn't going to do anything for the north. The


Government says it is still completely committed to the project.


But today conceded that the HS2 bill might not have cleared


parliament before the next election, which could make it a huge


political issue come polling day. If Labour were to scrap it, they


would have an extra £16 billion they could reassign to other


infrastructure projects in their manifesto. That may ultimately


prove an irresistable temptation. With us now is McAllister Munro,


chief executive of the H -- McAllisteren to Munro, chief


executive of the HS2 project. A bit of desperation to change chairman


like this? No I see it as confidence in the project, that we


will have the hybrid bill by the end of the year, and secondly that


we are seriously looking forward to the next stage of the project, the


build process and also moving forward into construction. Why has


your current chairman been replaced? Our current chairman has


done a fantastic job in getting us to this point, where we will be


ready to deposit the hybrid bill by the end of the year. That is a key


milestone, but we do then move on to a next phase. He has taken the


decision that now is a good point for him to stand down. I can't


think of a better possible successor to dough than Sir David -


- Doug than Sir David Higgins after the success of the Olympics. Moving


forward into now construction. When you say the new chairman's first


priority will be scrutinising costs, he's scrutinising fiction, isn't


he? I would expect him to be scrutinising costs. We have


obviously had a lost of debate about costs. You don't know what


they are? We would expect a new chairman to reassure himself on


costs. You don't know what the chairman to reassure himself on


final costs will be? We have made a thorough estimates of the costs and


final costs will be? We have made a looked at the various risks around


the costs, that is all allowed for in the contingency element, a large


part of the increase we have seen. We have looked again at the risks,


the Government has decided to set a budget that does cover the


foreseeable risks in the projbt. We know we can proceed -- project. We


know we can proceed with the cost envelope. Why is it then that so


many politicians have lost faith in you? We have still got strong


support among politicians. The Prime Minister is still very


strongly supportive, so the Chancellor, the Deputy Prime


Minister. If you actually listen to what Labour...This Was dreamed up


by Labour when in Government? And adopted by the coalition. And you


saw very clearly what happened this week when one person after another


in the Labour shadow team distanced themselves and said we're not going


to be behind this if the costs go any higher than they are now? I'm


not at all surprised they say that, we are not expecting the costs to


go higher. You probably weren't expecting them to go any higher


when you originally put in the wrong estimate? We have started


four-and-a-half years ago with a complete blank sheet with the


project. At an early stage there are obviously risks. As we have


gone forward we have done more work on the costs. We have a robust cost


estimate now. We have a more significant contingency allowance,


we are confident we can deliver within that. If you listen


carefully to what has been said within that. If you listen


this week, they are not actually saying they don't support high-


speed rail. They are saying it has to be value for money. They won't


speed rail. They are saying it has support it beyond £50 billion? We


are determined to deliver it beyond that. I'm sure one of the first


things Sir David Higgins will want to do is look closely at the


project and how we make sure we do deliver it within the cost envelope.


Isn't the truth of the matter that you some how took it for granted


that you would always have Government and the political class


generally behind you, and therefore failed to make the business case


for HS2? We have always recognised this is bound to be a hugely


controversial project, it will always be a political issue. There


has been a lot of debate up until now. It has increased recently. But


it has always been a political project. We do recognise, we need


to make the case for strongly, I project. We do recognise, we need


think the case is compelling, when you really look at it. When you


look at the growth we have seen in the railways, a doubling in the


number of people using the railways over the last 15 years, that growth


continuing, there is no alternative that will actually provide the


capacity this country needs in the future. And I think when you look


at it carefully that is the conclusion you come to, of course


we will have faith in it. According to you, what would happen to the


country if it weren't built? If it is not built the railway will


become increasingly crowded, hard choices would have to be made about


what services run, where the trains stop, that will be a break on


economic growth. If you look at what the OECD say, the World


Economic Forum, they come to the conclusion that strong economists


need a good transport infrastructure. That includes the


railway structure. How big a setback will it be for Britain if


it weren't built? It would be serious, what would happen is it


would delay it. You can do incremental improvements keeping


you going for a few years, sooner or later you get to the point where


you can't keep adding to the existing railway. We are currently


you can't keep adding to the working on a railway built in


Victorian times T has done us a very good service, but we can't


live on that through the 21st century and beyond. At some point


we are going to have to invest in additional capacity. We need to


really do it now, so that we have the capacity there in the time that


we need it when we meet that capacity crunch in the middle of


the next decade. If this project gets can I Bosched, because people


-- kiboshed because people decide it is too expensive, how long would


it set us back, you have presumably done all the sums? We and the


Department of Network Rail, all forecasts, it will need this


capacity in the middle of the next decade. At some point? Even


planning now, with the process West need to go through, the period we


need for con-- we need to go through and the period for


construction, we need to plan for the middle of the decade. Planning


now we have the new capacity when we need it. You could do


incremental improvements, but sooner or later you have to make a


incremental improvements, but really big increase in capacity.


What is the feeling reason the organisation, you can sniff the


wind, there has been a change of mood about HS2, do you feel that it


is definitely going to happen? I'm very positive it will happen. I


think there will continue to be debate, and we have to continue to


show that we can deliver it for the cost. We have to continue to make


the case for the benefits. As I say when you look at the case carefully,


when you look at the alternatives, you believe that even if it got


delayed people would decide sooner or later this is actually the only


long-term solution. I don't think anyone would actually thank us in


10-20 years time and look back and say why didn't they actually invest


when they could. You are making the case but not talking like a woman


who is certain it will happen? I believe very strongly it is going


to happen, yes I absolutely do. That is why I'm doing the job. I'm


sure that is why Sir David Higgins, coming in as chairman, he believes,


he has made clear himself that he and his role in Network Rail does


he has made clear himself that he not believe we can continue just to


patch and mend the existing railway. That we do need to make this step


change and deliver some new capacity and new railway lines and


he's fully supportive of HS2 and sees that as a solution.


Thank you very much. Sir David Higgins's on Radio 4's Today


Programme tomorrow. The Archbishop of Canterbury has called the 80


victims of the suicide bomb attack in Pakistan martyrs, since they


were targeted because of their beliefs.


They are not alone. Police in Egypt say they are pursuing Islamist


extremists who have incited attacks on Christian targets there. The


army has now retaken one town south of Cairo, Dalga, which had been


under Islamist control. Some Christians are still afraid to


return home. We have the first foreign reporter to enter the town


its recapture. The film contains graphic images of victims killed in


the vie lnt attacks. 1600 years of Christian history, reduced to a


blackened ruin. This is what's left of the monastery of the Virgin Mary


in St Abraham in Dalga, after a Muslim mob attacked it last month.


On the 14th of August. Came to the Muslim mob attacked it last month.


front door and they were calling for Jihad. They broke through the


main door and they entered the monastery. They went everywhere


here and they stole everything in the church and the building, and


also they when they finished stealing they burned the place.


Christians here say it was revenge for the Coptic church's support for


the overthrow of the Islamist Government. Payback for the killing


of hundreds of Islamists by the police. Relations between


Christians and Muslims here have often been uneasy, but the


upheavals of the last two years, both in Egypt and elsewhere in the


Middle East have now led to a much deeper fracturing of society, that


many feel won't easily be repaired. A horrifying video shows the body


of one Christian from Dalga, a local barber, killed and later


reported to be dragged through the streets behind a tractor. The


victim's cousin, a lawyer, has now fled to Cairo, fearing the same


fate. TRANSLATION: They attacked his


house, he tried to defend himself. They killed him inside the house.


They dragged his body out, they stole everything in his house and


mine. For two month after the police were chased out in early


July this dusty backwater between the Nile and the desert became an


independent outpost of Islamism, or simply anarchy. Christians like


this farm worker who fled with his family to live on a building site


on a nearby village describe the climate of intimidation where they


were robbed or forced to pay protection money.


TRANSLATION: There was this coffee shop that opened at 11.00, all the


thiefs and thugs went there and afterwards they roamed around,


opening whatever doors they could, or jumping over walls. If they


found any of your belongings they took them. Another refuge, also too


scared to show his face says the criminals have political backing,


he has no proof. TRANSLATION: The thugs in the town were supported by


the Muslim Brotherhood, they were giving weapons and money, because


it was in their interests to loot our houses and spread chaos.


Now order has been restored. Troops and police recaptured Dalga with


little resistance last week, making a series of arrests and


confiscating guns. Their job is not over yet, suddenly


there is an alert and we're off with police Special Forces on the


trail of more armed arsonists or looters. They stake out a house.


There is distant gunfire, and soon another suspect has been rounded up


for questioning. The state's finally stamped its authority on


for questioning. The state's this town, trying to prove there is


nowhere in Egypt where its writ does not run. But the crackdown may


simply provoke a violent insurgency that will rumble on for many years.


Today though it is mainly donkey carts that are rumbling on. One man


gives the four-fringeered salute that symbolised opposition to the


military leaders. You will find no Islamist representatives here,


those accused of inciting violence on Christians have fled or melted


back into the crowd. And prominent on Christians have fled or melted


Muslims here deny the Muslim Brotherhood or anyone else ordered


the attacks. TRANSLATION: They were thieves stealing for their own


benefits. They didn't have any other motive, no-one was supporting


them. TRANSLATION: Some mosques called for Jihad at the Muslim


Brotherhood protests in Cairo, because many people were killed


there. But thieves and thugs here took that as a license to go and


get what they wanted for themselves. So the message was misunderstood,


get what they wanted for themselves. we have always lived in harmony


with the Christians and we work together.


# Mor circumstance -- Morsi The Islamist challenge


terrifies many Christians, it hasn't been suppressed here but the


Brotherhood has been banned. A movement that was the legitimate


leaders of this country has been res duced to flash mobs in villages


like Dalga, but they turn out nightly at the provincialal


governor's house up the road they are taking noens chas. The security


is as tight as in the 1990s, when the Mubarak dictatorships was here.


I'm going to see the former police chief and now the governor, who


believes now as then Egypt is facing an international terrorist


conspiracy. We feel in Egypt there is this war against Egypt, the big


organisation, outside, the strategy comes from outside, using local


people by giving them money by giving them weapons. The fanatics


use this area because there is no education, there is no money, there


is no jobs. They try to push fanatic principles. They make big


problems between some of the Christians and some of the Muslims.


Christians, a third of the population in the province have


long lived side-by-side with Muslim neighbours. Poverty unites them,


illiteracy here is almost 50%. Even after weeks of living out of bags


and baskets, the Christians who fled Dalga are refusing to go home.


The police didn't protect them when the violence started here, and may


not protect them now from a further round of revenge. TRANSLATION: The


Government and the police are saying it is safe, but they will


not stay in Dalga forever, and the gangs are saying as soon as they


leave they will be retaliating. Back in Dalga, they say it will


take years to rebuild the monastery, one of the dozens of churches


attacked in Egypt in recent weeks. We had hoped to speak to the Muslim


Brotherhood, but we can't do so tonight. I'm joined instead from


Birmingham by my best who is chair of the United Cops in the UK. And


the political editor of Middle East Magazine. How frightened are


Christians in Egypt? Thank you Jeremy. The Christians had years of


threats and intimidation, coercion and killing which went unpunished


for years. There was a culture of impunity, and everyone is saying


that Egypt is an Islamic country and he's the leader of the Islamic


country. Since then the Islamists felt they had the upper hand. Then


Hosni Mubarak came, during his time he kept a tight rein on the


Islamists, but he overlooked their attacks on Christians. There is a


long history of fear and intimidation. Really there is a


culture of persecuting Christians by, I'm not saying by the whole of


the Muslim population, of course not. There is even a new


organisation in here in England which is the Egyptian Committee for


the Defence of the Secular State, including Muslims and Christians,


I'm part of it. I'm the deputy of the Union of the Coptic


Organisation in Europe. There is actually the fear from the


Organisation in Europe. There is Islamists coming from in societies


where there is poverty and where there is unrest as well. Let me


bring in my guest here, if you don't mind. Who do you think was


behind these attacks, or is behind these continuing attacks? It is


difficult when you collect evidence to pin it on an organisation. It is


always easier to stand in court for individuals, like we had with the


IRA and Sinn Fein. Circumstance standing evidence, the Muslim


Brotherhood have not -- circumstantial evidence, the Muslim


Brotherhood when they came out and they didn't renounce past


terrorists or give an instruction to their followers saying we


dislike that Morsi was overthrown, let's protest peacefully and hold a


vigil. It is, although there is no let's protest peacefully and hold a


hard evidence, but in one night you had hundreds of churches being


burned down and attacked. Sow the organisation is there. Do you think


looking back on it, it was wise for so many Coptic Christians in Egypt


to support what was effectively a military coup against the Muslim


Brotherhood? First of all this was not a military coup, this was a


response to the popular demand. I shouldn't have used the word Coup",


military intervention then, was it -- "coup", military intervention


military intervention then, was it then. Was it unwise? The Muslim


Brotherhood reduced the democracy to a pan tokcy. They used --


panatocracy, they abused the ballot. Before that this was the last step


in democracy, before that there should be a culture of equality,


freedom, freedom of all freedom. Justice for all. No-one should be


persecuting minorities because they are peaceful. The Christians of


course they never started a fight or retaliated in a fight. They kept


losing their property and families. Let me interrupt you then and bring


in my guest. Can Egypt be surprised this is what has happened? It is


not a surprise, I mean there is no surprise. I am a bit surprised they


took it out on fellow Christians rather than...but then it goes into


the pattern of thinking if you read the literature of the Muslim


Brotherhood, or the meetings, tomorrow there is an interesting


piece in the Egyptian Independent of a meeting of the global


organisation that took part in Istanbul this week and in Lahore


and Pakistan. Part of the thinking is if they have enough strife and


sectarian conflict, then the world will pay attention and they hope


for intervention, not quite Libyan- style, something like that, to put


enough pressure on an American-led intervention to pressurise the


interim Government and reinstate Morsi. Its not a coherent thinking


but that is exchanged in meetings with the Muslim Brotherhood.


Thank you very much both of you. In all the noise and heat generated


by Ed Miliband's declaration yesterday that if he was Prime


Minister he would cap energy prices. One thing seems to have escaped


everybody's notice, he committed the party to giving the vote to 16-


year-olds, they are already getting it in the Scotland's independence


referendum, and in Argentina and Ecuador they can vote. Are


teenagers more mature there, and if not why hasn't it happened here


before. The first time British voters will have been to the polls


on their way to school. 1969 and the last major change to our voting


system. I shall certainly be voting Conservative.


Harold Wilson cut the voting age from 21 just in time for the


general election. Which he then went on to lose to Edward Heath.


They are not satisfied. Now the Labour Party wants to have another


pop at extending the franchise, buried in Ed Miliband's speech


yesterday, plans to give all 16- year-olds their turn at the ballot


box. Friends, friends, let's give a voice to these young people in our


party. Let's give a voice to these young people in our democracy.


Let's give the vote to 16 and 17- year-olds and make them part of our


democracy. We're always told today's teenagers


are an apolitical lot, distrustful of those suits in Westminster. So


Newsnight took our own totally unscientific focus group across the


road to the pool club. At 16 you can pay taxes, join the


armed force, get married and have sex, if you can do all of this at


16 why are you not vote? I don't necessarily think that 16-year-olds


should have a vote, because they are not taught enough about


politics. But this is a generation barely alive in the year 2000, what


do they know and what do they want from the Government. This is going


to be way more fun I promise than a game of pool. What we have here in


front of us is a very rough idea about the amount the Government


spends. What we want you to do is take these chips and work out if


this is the way as 16 and 17-year- olds you would like to see


Government money spent, or if there is a better way of spending


Government money. The only thing we can cut and agree on would be


benefits, don't you think so? No. No. Benefits affects thousands of


people. One quick question, how much benefits would we cut and


where to put it. Not enough, we have to contribute more to housing.


Pensions are you going to use the healthcare any way, pensioners are


more likely to be using the healthcare than us any way. Exactly.


If you work for 60 years in the plek sector and you work day in day


out, you shouldn't have that money cut, you are entitled to that


amount of money. Pensions have been one of the simple areas not cut,


and I'm actually, sorry, I'm fuming for the simple fact that pensions


do need to get some sort of cuts on it. OK, OK. You will have to all


stop talking now. Can I have a bit of quiet, your time is totally up.


You guys have been brilliant, massive disagreement, I think it is


fair to say between you all. We are going to have to take a vote on it


and do it democratically. Who thinks money can come out of the


health budget? No. That is, benefits who round here thinks


benefits could be cut. So all of you, does no-one think benefits


shutd be protected. -- should be protected? I do. That is enough? Is


that an agreement. Where is it going? Health and education.


Housing? National debt, some to pay back the national debt. There we go,


who thinks money could come out of education anyone think that? No way.


Who thinks money could come out of defence? Yes. Take it all. We need


one gun. Where does this go? Education, health, housing. The


final one, who round here thinks money could be cut out of pension,


four of you. No-one else? Five don't think it should be cut. What


is the deciding vote? Of course. Money is coming out of pensions,


only just. Not that much. Too much? That much. Less than that.


No, no, no. Take it back, take it back. This is coming out of your


gran and granddad's purse. Where is it going? More on housing and


health. That's fine. Education gets it and one payback for the national


debt. You have just solved our deficit


problem, well done guys! But it is one thing to get teenagers like


this interested in politics, another to get them to the ballot


box. They might be angry, they might be passionate, but that


doesn't mean that given the chance they would bother to vote. Now to


the best known female architect in the world, in a traditionally male-


dominated profession, Zaha Hadid stands out. She designed the


Aquatic Centre for the Olympics. Her buildings are mainly abroad


which tells us something about Britain. Her first in central


London opened today a small yet remarkable addition to a Napoleonic


addition to the Serpentine. I guess it is a reasonable punt that it


would gave Prince Charles nightmares. I went to see her


latest creation this afternoon. There is no mistaking her buildings.


They are structures which sometimes hardly seem like structures at all.


My early work was influenced by the Russian avant-garde, the residue of


that work was how to liberate ourselves from certain things to do


with gravity. As an architect you have to have


with gravity. some idea about structure. The cafe


at the Serpentine Calgary is tiny in comparison with some other build


-- gall gree, is tiny -- gallery, is tiny compared to her buildings,


but it is definitely her's? What will people say about the gallery?


I don't know, I think it is very important to invest in the public


domain. For people to enjoy t it is nice to be in the park with


transparency with a light roof. I thought it was extraordinary. I'med


glad. Do you think in this country we have become more sophisticated


about architecture? I think there is more sophisticated opinions


about architecture, but I don't think the buildings are more


sophisticated. There are some. There are at least, there are some


towers you know, some high rise which you know 20 years ago it


would have been impossible. And so maybe that will, that investment


would allow for new models to be developed. But it is interesting


isn't it the way in which Prince Charles, for example, can tap into


what he knows to be an instinctive feeling among very many people in


the street that oh modern architecture, it is horrible? I


don't think people in the street feel that way. I think that the


modernity, and the modernism they know is based on what they have


here, which was never a great example. There is some good


buildings done by Norman Foster, Richard Rogers, others what I call


high-tech of that period very important buildings. Michael


Hopkins, people like that. I think that they respond to these


buildings which were done post-war, very quickly, social housing, which


was done you know not forgetting that time there were slum, this


there were people whose houses were bomb, they had to build quite fast


and they responded in that way. This is your first building in


central London? It is. You had this reputation for years and years for


designing buildings that weren't built. What was that like? It was


really not very nice. Because I always thought they were in the


realm of possibility. I think that is one of the reasons I persevered


and the people with me in the office obviously had amazing belief


toe stick it out. Because it was very hard times. In the 1990s Zaha


Hadid won the commission to design the Cardiff Bay Opera House, but


local politicians clocked it amid a predictable chorus from media


yahoos that her work was elitist. That was very bad. You know I have


to think about these things in a positive way. There was nothing


positive about it. The only positive thing about it is it made


people, who didn't know me or my work have an opinion. Good or bad.


And enormous support. People in the street, I mean you know, I still


have people coming to me in restaurants saying, that was a


terrible moment. If they are Welsh they are always apologising. One of


her more controversial projects opened this month in Azerbaijan.


The Haydar Cultural Centre is a remarkable build, but it is


dedicated to the personality cult of the autocrat who turned the


country into a family business. Building or designing buildings


which glorify regimes which are unsympathetic, the famous one is


the Cultural Centre in Baku, which glorfies a tyrant? It is a cultural


centre and open to the public, you know, people name libraries after


centre and open to the public, you American Presidents. You are not


compare? Not comparing them but I just think that, I think you have


to be very strategic about whether you deprive the public as well from


the public domain or you know, I'm not doing a private house for


everybody, I'm doing a public building with a concert hall or


library, museum. But it is in honour of a man with the most


atrocious human rights record? With his name, yes. I can't change that.


You could choose not to build it? Well if it was a private house


somewhere like that it is a problem. But I will choose for example I


think it is more contentious to But I will choose for example I


build a prison anywhere. I was reading about Shelter to


build nice housing, good work space. Good public buildings, because I


build nice housing, good work space. think that not everybody in the


world has the privilege of travelling and seeing extraordinary


things and I think it is very important to make things like that


and more immediately in their domain. Do you think as a nation we


are more receptive to that idea now than we used to be? I don't think


so. You don't? No. I think that the majority of work in the UK is


corporate. And it is very bad, America was build on amazing


corporate buildings. Office towers in New York and Chicago. So you can


do great things here as well. And housing, that dilemma is different.


You are relying on your no-how of the client, the developer, it has a


-- know-how of the client, the developer, it has a different


-- know-how of the client, the dynamic. It is a jolly building,


you should go. The United States has won the America's Cup, the


competition for one of the very oldest sporting trophies burst into


life yesterday as the United States team came storming back after a


series of defeats in which the New Zealanders had made their catamaran


look like a Lyle low with a serious -- lilo with a serious puncture.


This sort of racing is like tearing up £50 notes while standing fully


clothed under a full shower. Our reporter who has the slob's job of


writing what he has been watching on the telly with those in the


Guardian, shares it interest, he will explain why. Remember him?


Four-times Olympic Chancellor I don't know, Ben Ainslie, Sir Ben


Ainslie. Done it all, knighted by the age of 36, probably smoking his


pipe and telling stories by the fire now, right? Wrong. He has been


involved in one of the most remarkable sporting turn arounds


since Liverpool won the Champions League in 2005. Nine days ago or


kal team USA were 7-1 down to League in 2005. Nine days ago or


Emirates team New Zealand. The Kiwis needed to win one more race


and they would go home with the America's Cup, the biggest prize in


sail. Enter our Ben, brought in by the or kal team as tactition. --


They found another gear, outwigt the Kiwis and beating the Kiwis. It


is a game of chess on a boat, and the Kiwis and beating the Kiwis. It


Ben has learned how to be a grand chess master. He has an uncanny


ability to look at the racecourse and opposition and know how to put


them away. The America's Cup hasn't always been like this. It started


in 1851 as a race around the Isle of Wight. Since when it hasn't


bothered the public conscience too much, an alleged activity for toffs


with an awful lot of money. Too often it was about bending the


rules than the wave, when it made it out of the courtroom and on to


the waves it was slow and boring and no-one had a clue what was


going on. It is still about rich men indulging in their hoby, a


campaign is upwards of $100 million. But it has been good to watch. Men


in helmets drive catamarans with foils, flying above the water on a


racecourse at above 50 miles an hour. That is very, very fast for a


sailing boat. Now the boats are equallys, the race is tight and


short, and the setting, San Francisco bay is spectacular. For


the first time ever sailing is a spectacular sport. Formula One but


wet? Maybe. Joining us now is the BB cl.'s California correspond --


BBC's California correspondent, was it exciting? I'm not a man normally


watching a lot of yacht racing, but the fact it is right here in the


bay, the speed of the boats, the way they lift up in the hydrofoils


and going incredible speeds, 45 miles an hour plus. Very close


racing, all the reasons explain that, it is normally out to sea,


the boats have cameras all over them, TV has been involved. You can


hear the yachtsmen talking to each other about tactic, here Ben


Ainslie working with the skipper of the team USA, to talk about the


race and how it will go well for them. We are waiting for Team USA


to arrive and Team New Zealand is here already. The presentation will


be made in the next few minutes. Ben Ainslie took a job as tactition,


I have forgotten his title. How much credit is he being given for


the win? He has been given a lot of credit but not as much as the Brits


want to give him. They did a lot of tweaks to the boat, they made a


clear decision they were going to change strategy, that is when they


brought Ben Ainslie in. He was a skipper on the second boat, he was


here basically to race, to train, to get them up to speed. He was


never expected actually race on the yacht itself. Bringing him in was


like having three quarter back, yacht itself. Bringing him in was


they said, on the team. Three skippers, very experienced guys all


working to the. That is what a lot skippers, very experienced guys all


of people are saying made a big difference. Wait that they build up


their speed, get -- the way that they built up their speed, getting


faster and faster. It is an amazing win, everyone was writing off the


US, but you have to feel for the Kiwis, so close but so far.


Thank you,en joy the celebrations. Some of tomorrow morning's front


pages now. For the past two years a group of


20 photographers have tried to capture the most spectacular images


of British wildlife, here is some of what they managed to get, good




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