Browse content similar to 15/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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A Home Secretary calling for disciplinary action against | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
policemen and a Chief Constable summoned to appear before MPs. | :00:09. | :00:16. | |
Suddenly a lot more is at stake in the so-called Plebgate incident than | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
one minister's frustration and bad manners. What happened at the gates | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
of Downing Street cost a man his job. Should policemen be considering | :00:25. | :00:32. | |
their positions too? The panel should determine whether the three | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
officers gave a false account of the meeting in a deliberate attempt to | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
support their Metropolitan Police colleague and discredit Mr Mitchell. | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
After that we talk to the most powerful woman in world media, the | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
editor of the New York Times, on the future of newspapers - if there is | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
one. Right now I'm putting this on. In China, Emily learns why we'd | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
better disabuse ourselves of ideas that the nation can make things, but | :00:59. | :01:05. | |
can't invent them. Wow! That was you, doing that to the strawberry. | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
Using my brain. A sensational night at the Guildhall in London, and I | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
will have an interview with the youngest ever winner of the man | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
Booker prize, Eleanor Catton. We're all familiar with the | :01:20. | :01:31. | |
accusation from villains that they've been fitted up by the | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
police. It's something else to hear the Independent Police Complaints | :01:38. | :01:39. | |
Commission question the honesty and integrity of police officers. The | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
commission has decided that three of them should have faced disciplinary | :01:47. | :01:48. | |
proceedings for their misrepresentation of what Andrew | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
Mitchell said had occurred during his spat with police at the gates of | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
Downing Street. That confrontation cost him his cabinet post. David | :01:55. | :02:05. | |
Grossman reports. Two incidents of hundred and 20 miles apart. Incident | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
one was at the gates of Downing Street on the 19th of September when | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
Andrew Mitchell was exiting on his bicycle. Did he use the word pleb, | :02:17. | :02:26. | |
he denies it. At the moment it is disguise -- deciding whether to | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
prosecute. The other incident happened three weeks later in the | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
constituency of Sutton Coldfield. What Mr Mitchell said at the | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
interview was disputed. Today the Independent complaints commission | :02:40. | :02:40. | |
came down emphatically in his favour. In my opinion, the issue of | :02:41. | :02:48. | |
in mystery and integrity, not just naive or poor protect -- | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
professional judgement. The background to the meeting is | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
important. His denial of using the word behind the gates of Downing | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
Street were not believed. He was not cutting three. As a last rolled the | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
dice he agreed with a meeting with local Police Federation | :03:06. | :03:07. | |
representatives at his constituency headquarters. The Police Federation | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
said it would be to clear the air and draw a line under the matter and | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
it would be a private meeting. It turned out be anything but. | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
Unbeknownst to Mr Mitchell, the Police Federation not only alerted | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
the media to what was arranged as a private meeting but then completely | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
misrepresented what Mr Mitchell had said, and called on him to resign. | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
The three officers in the meeting with Mr Mitchell were Inspector Ken | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
McHale of West Murcia police, Stuart Hinton of Warwickshire Police, and | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
Sergeant Chris Jones of West Midlands Police. Here is what they | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
said after the meeting. I think Mr Mitchell has no option but resign. | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
He is refusing to elaborate on what happened. I think his position is | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
untenable. We know from a secret recording that Mr Mitchell made that | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
he clearly explained what he had said in the original incident. I did | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
not say, I give you my word, that I did not call an officer a pleb. I | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
did say under my breath, but audibly, in frustration, that I | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
thought you lot were supposed to supporters. I did say that. And | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
there that I apologise. In other words, the Police Federation version | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
is at odds with the recording and the transcript. Mr Mitchell had not | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
refused to elaborate and had not refused to say what he said behind | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
closed gates. Despite that, all three representatives of the Police | :04:37. | :04:38. | |
Federation at the meeting said as much in media interviews after the | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
meeting. As police officers, they had a responsibility to present a | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
fair and accurate picture. The motive seems plain. They were | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
running a successful, high-profile anti-cuts campaign and the account | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
he provided did not fit their agenda. The Police Federation | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
represents all police officers up to and including chief inspectors will | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
stop they were and they are engaged in a bitter political battle with | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
the government over pub -- cuts to the budget and defence of pay and | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
conditions, which the government is were determined to reform. The | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
Police Federation therefore enthusiastically leapt on the | :05:19. | :05:20. | |
incident in furtherance of their campaign. The commission only | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
published a report today because there were so dissatisfied with the | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
internal investigation in what was said at the meeting. That | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
investigation concluded that the officers had done nothing wrong and | :05:34. | :05:41. | |
had no case to answer. Today West Murcia police stood by the | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
investigation and officers concerned. Despite the thorough | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
investigation under the supervision of the Commissioner is not | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
sufficient evidence to support the view that the officers concerned | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
should face misconduct proceedings. The Home Secretary says she is | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
concerned but powerless to act. I defend the operation of the police, | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
but I have to say that in my personal view, in view of the | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
statement made by the independent commission today, I think it is | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
wrong to them not to take disciplinary proceedings against the | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
officers. What was or not said in just 45 seconds in Downing Street | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
over a year ago has cost over ?140,000 to the police to | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
investigate, but something else has been squandered say the supporters | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
of Mr Mitchell, a bit more than the public faith in the police. The | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
former Shadow Home Secretary David Davis is here to discuss the latest | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
twist in the Andrew Mitchell affair. Can you trust the police? We can | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
trust most of them. The vast majority of coppers join up to | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
protect the public, feel the collar of a villain and do a job. But some | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
of them, that is not the case. We had Hillsborough, the G20 affair | :06:52. | :06:59. | |
with Ian Tomlinson, and the public are getting a pattern here. It's not | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
representative of everyone but it is systemic in some way. When it can | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
happen to one of the most powerful men in the land, Cabinet Minister, | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
you wonder what it must be like those people at the other end of the | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
social scale. When it first happened and Andrew Mitchell was at the new | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
Deer of his representation, his wife was a GP and suddenly found that the | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
minority nurses came up to her who worked with, said that they | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
understood Doctor Mitchell, because our sons have had this. In Brixton, | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
and so on. There is a real issue here. People who are powerless in | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
society or have not got the resources to be able to get the | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
former Shadow Home Secretary to help out or have not got the contact with | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
the press, or don't have the time and commitment, if they are in that | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
the position, they would still be there today, unlike Andrew. You | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
thought about this. When did the rot set in? It's very hard to know. | :07:58. | :08:05. | |
Write down the decades there have been problems, like the Guildford | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
four and the Birmingham six. All through that time, broadly | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
speaking, the service we got from the ordinary police officer had been | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
really good. Our coppers are better than most in the world, but the | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
simple truth is there have been systemic problems arising from all | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
sorts of things, like the way the logs are filled in. Policemen are | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
allowed to confer about it after an incident. If you and I were there, | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
we have to give evidence straightaway. Lots of things wrong. | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
The other problem, which I think is being highlighted here, is the | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
question of whether the police should be allowed to investigate | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
themselves. Should they actually be allowed to say that the officers did | :08:45. | :08:52. | |
not mean to live? This was not a malicious lie. That was in defiance | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
of the fact is, frankly. Very interesting that that used to be a | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
left-wing complaint, but here we have right across the spectrum of | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
politics, whether it is you or Jack Straw, Simon Hughes, raising against | :09:07. | :09:16. | |
the massed forces of the police. Or their representatives. Bearing mind | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
there are two things in play. There are the Police Federation that are | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
trying to defeat a government who are attacking their terms and | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
conditions, as if -- as they saw it. That is compounding the problem. But | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
it is a thing across the political spectrum, because we rely on the | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
police. This country, historically, has had fabulous policing in | :09:40. | :09:41. | |
comparison with most other countries. In other countries of the | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
world police have been part of a state apparatus or a problem. In the | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
United States, the normal warnings you have to give, they arose from | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
the Supreme Court stepping in because some state police were doing | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
things wrong. We have had a pretty good service, but nevertheless, | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
there is a real systemic problem, I think. We did invite the Police | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
Federation on and they did not want to talk to us. I'm not some -- | :10:10. | :10:17. | |
remotely surprised. There's a new newspaper on sale in Europe today. | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
Well, not new exactly. But new to us. The International Herald Tribune | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
is no more. In its place is an international edition of the New | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
York Times. There is perhaps no newspaper on earth which takes | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
itself more seriously. But that has turned out to be no protection from | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
commercial reality. It is the job of journalists to record what's | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
happened, predicting the future is a job for clairvoyants. The truth is | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
that while there are plenty of ideas, no-one knows what the future | :10:41. | :10:41. | |
of almost any part of the media is. The New York Times, the Grey Lady, | :10:42. | :10:52. | |
has never been overburdened with modesty and claims to be the finest | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
newspaper in the world. Mind you, it does have over 100 Pulitzer prizes | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
to prove it. It's the product of a monopoly. There is no other | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
newspaper in town in New York. They have seen off the national | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
competition, the Washington Post which is a shadow of itself, and so | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
is the LA Times. The New York Times can do what it wants. Historically | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
it has been slow to change, but a third of the paper's online | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
customers are from abroad, so perhaps an international edition was | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
inevitable. It will not be easy though. All newspapers are | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
struggling, even the New York Times. But if you have a global brand, and | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
the New York Times has it, it makes sense to go global. All I would say | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
is that whereas the British are good at going global, like we have with | :11:42. | :11:49. | |
the the Economist, the Daily Mail, and the Financial Times, the | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
Americans have not really gone global with their papers. They don't | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
quite know how to do it. The editor charged with overcoming these | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
challenges is Jill Abramson, the first woman in the job. She has all | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
ready had to make controversial editorial decisions, not less | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
contentious than the papers reporting with the Guardian about | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
the secret files from British and American electronic surveillance | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
agencies. She has the pleasure of working with the chief executive, | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
Mark Thompson, who used to run the BBC. Well, joining me now is the | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
editor of the New York Times, Jill Abramson. You are printing this new | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
international edition of the New York Times. Why are you doing it? We | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
are still printing the international edition and the New York Times | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
itself, because we have a healthy audience of people who love reading | :12:44. | :12:51. | |
a physical newspaper. It's a wonderful way to deliver it. But | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
does that not prove you are not with the beat? Well, I think the | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
important point is that we are a global news organisation now. We | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
have printed editions of the New York Times and a very vibrant | :13:06. | :13:12. | |
digital presence. Both the global home page and the home page of the | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
New York Times, they are full of the best quality information, and there | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
is a tremendous hunger amongst readers all over the world for the | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
highest quality kind of journalism. That is what we do. But you are | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
working on the premise that journalism that you pay for is | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
somehow journalism that you do not pay for, is that correct? That is | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
not necessarily my premise. But the New York Times, within our business | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
model, it involves a paid subscription plan, but for readers | :13:48. | :13:55. | |
who are not using our website constantly we allow some free | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
content so that we remain part of the world. But why pay for it? Get | :14:00. | :14:07. | |
it off a free website like the BBC? There is a quality in the | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
information and news that we provide that is worth paying for. Give me a | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
hint as to how long you are planning on carrying on printing for? You | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
said yourself that nobody knows what the future is going to hold, but I | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
feel that we have a healthy audience of readers who love getting the | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
print paper and are willing to pay dearly for it. And as long as that | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
is the case, which I expect to be for a good long time. Five years? | :14:34. | :14:43. | |
Ten years? 15 years? I'm not a clairvoyant. You must have a | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
business plan. We have a business plan to continue printing the print | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
newspaper and meeting the demands of our audience. More than 800,000 | :14:52. | :14:59. | |
people in the US, about 250,000 people in Europe, and they all love | :15:00. | :15:06. | |
the print paper. And they want to keep getting it. Let us talk about | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
Edward Snowden and the revelations you and the Guardian have published. | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
Sure. Have you actually met Snowden? I have not met Mr Snowden, no. Have | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
you had direct dealings your newspaper with Snowden? We have not | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
had direct dealings, no. Who are you dealing with? Mainly, we have been | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
analysing the documents that he provided first to the Guardian, | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
which shared some of its documents with us and doing our own | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
independent reporting, based on what we've learnt from the documents, it | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
hasn't really - Does it strike you as odd you have had no dealings with | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
the source? Not terribly odd. I mean, it's unusual. Usually, we do | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
deal directly with our source, but in other stories in the Wikileaks | :15:59. | :16:05. | |
stories, frints -- for instance, we were reporting again mostly off of | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
documents and not talking directly to the Wikileaks. You were dealing | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
with Glenn Greenwald? Well, no, we weren't. Although, obviously, in the | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
case of the Snowden documents he, you know, was the person, you know, | :16:23. | :16:32. | |
along with Laura Poitras... You have not spoken to Greenwald either? No. | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
I haven't spoken to Mr Greenwald. Anybody on the newspaper who have | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
spoken to him? There are reports at the Times who have spoken to him in | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
their course of reporting in the story. Your predecessor said he | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
would never see his name as a byline in the newspaper, would you? No, I | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
would never said say never. You might? I might. I just... I haven't | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
faced that decision yet. I will make it when I have to make the decision. | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
I take it the reason he didn't want to see his name as a byline is that | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
he is a commentator rather than a reporter, is that correct? I think | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
he has expressed opinion would be the reason. You don't see that as | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
crossing a line? I see it as a consideration in whether, when I | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
make that decision, I will decide that his name should appear on the | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
news pages of the New York Times. How many... How much of what you've | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
got of this stuff has not been published? Quite a bit has not yet | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
been published. You know, it's quite a considerable amount of documents, | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
but I don't really think that is the important issue. I think the issue | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
is that, what the Guardian has published. They have published far | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
more aerials than we have. That that... Those aerials are very much | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
in the public interest. Inform the public. It distresses me to see | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
other people in the media being critical of journalists doing their | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
job, which is to inform the public. I think these articles have been in | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
service of that. Some things have not been disclosed, despite us being | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
in the (inaudible) business, they have not been disclosed for what | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
reason? Because responsible journalists actually do care as | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
citizens do about national security and the safety of citizens. So some | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
things have not been published for reasons of national security? Some | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
things have not been published because to publish them would | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
possibly harm the safety of the public. Do you mind me asking how it | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
is that you know that as owe supposed to the security agencies? I | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
would say without at all wanting to come across as arrogant, that I have | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
years and years of experience as do many of the reporters who work for | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
me in Washington, where the intelligence agencies are located, | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
in dealing with these stories and making very difficult decisions | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
where we weigh, you know we balance the need to inform the public | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
against possible harm to national security. We do that very seriously | :19:20. | :19:26. | |
and soberly. I just think that experienced journalists can make | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
that decision. The head of MI5 say this is does serious damage to | :19:32. | :19:33. | |
national security, you know better... No, I'd like to see the | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
examples that prove that there has been an actual harm to national | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
security. When the New York Times published the Pentagon papers, back | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
in the 1970s, the same claims were made that publishing did grave harm | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
to national security and yet a couple of years after we published | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
them the same officials who said that admitted that actually there | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
hadn't been any real harm to national security. So... If a single | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
person should die as a result of information disclosed to terrorists | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
because... No person has died. Yet? Well, you say yet. At thes's an | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
awesome responsibility? It is a huge responsibility. Do you think other | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
people are better qualified to make that judgment? I don't know if there | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
are better qualified people. I'm not saying that journalists are all | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
knowing or we obviously haven't been elected by anyone, but I think that | :20:33. | :20:43. | |
we actually do seriously balance the public interest. In as much as you | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
know it? No. In each case we make very difficult decisions after | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
weighing the information. When you saw, for example, public authorities | :20:56. | :20:57. | |
coming to the Guardian in this country and the Guardian destroying | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
computers, what did you think? Well, I thought it's unfortunate that they | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
had to destroy some of their own computers, but they certainly took | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
steps to ensure that good journalism continued. The that's partly why | :21:15. | :21:24. | |
Alan Russbridger, who I think it a superb journalist, reached out to me | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
to share some of these documents. When you look at the press do you | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
think we are free here, the press here? I think the press in Britain | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
has more restrictions on it than we do. The framers of our country, in | :21:38. | :21:46. | |
the US, had big fear of too much power put in the central government. | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
As a bulwark against any excesses on the part of the government they | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
believe passionately in the need for a free press. I think that is a | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
stronger tradition in the US than it is here. I take it if you were | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
editing your paper in this country you wouldn't be signing up to the | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
proposed charter? Probably not. Thank you very much. Thanks. A | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
senior official of the Iranian government gave the sort of summing | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
up that reporters dread today. Asked about what happened in between his | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
country and six of the world's most powerful nation abouts Iran's | :22:26. | :22:34. | |
nuclear programme he gave the spectacularly unilluminating comment | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
that it was too early to say whether they had made any progress. The | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
White House too is saying that it will be a long-haul. The meeting was | :22:41. | :22:54. | |
in gooe and we spent the day with Mark Urban with his ear to whatever | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
keyhole he could find. All the feel good created by the election of a | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
new Iranian government, it had yet to answer the demands of the outside | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
world or make a proposal of substance. We have come here with a | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
sense ever cautious optimism and a great sense of determination because | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
we believe it is really time now for tangible results. As the Iranians | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
began to unveil their road map in the Palace of Palace of Le, Geneva's | :23:26. | :23:33. | |
monument to previous failed statesmen, there was a sense the | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
meeting had to produce results. Both sides need rapid process. The | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
Iranians want an easing of international sanctions. The | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
Westerners want to be sure as what they saw as the time wasting tactics | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
of previous Iranian governments are now well and truly over. The longer | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
they go on without a solution of course, the more developed Iran's | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
nuclear programmes get. The first, lasting six months, or up to April | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
next year, would involve inspections and a lifting of sanctions. Phase | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
two, which would extend through next summer, would be the period where | :24:12. | :24:18. | |
confidence building measures would take place. Leading in one year's | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
time to phase three, an end state where the international community | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
would recognise the peaceful nature of Iran's remaining programmed and | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
its future would be guaranteed. What would Iran concede? That's another | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
question. I'm sure the details of negotiations will, at some point, | :24:39. | :24:41. | |
come out. The the question is, should they come out while the | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
negotiations are ongoing to open up space for criticism and backlash | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
given the domestic sensitivities in both Tehran or Washington, or should | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
they wait until they reach a final agreement and at that time announce | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
it to the world? The Iranians would prefer the second option. My | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
understanding is that is attractive and acceptable for the P5 plus 1. | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
Indeed, once the morning's presentation was finished, the | :25:11. | :25:20. | |
deputy -- Mr Zarif's deputy came over to brief the press. The meeting | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
was very positive, but we are going to discuss about the details of | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
Iranian plan in the afternoon. This afternoon, when the fuller | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
discussions began, the western countries changed their tune. In | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
fact they stopped briefing anxious to digest what they were hearing and | :25:38. | :25:44. | |
aware that the old, we await Iran's proposal with interest line had been | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
overtaken by people in a hurry. Obviously time is of the essence. | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
The Iranians want to move fast. They want to get to age stant agreement | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
in a matter of a year. They want to have interim measures that are not | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
separated by more than three months. The reason is that they want to make | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
sure that, first of all, there is positive momentum and diplomacy so | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
that talks will move forward. Second, they want to make sure there | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
is not enough space for the spoilers to derail diplomacy. Tonight, there | :26:15. | :26:17. | |
was a further meeting between Baroness Ashton and Mr Zarif. The | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
atmosphere of tense expectation has gone to be replaced by the search | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
for a deal both sides can live with and sell to their own sceptics. | :26:29. | :26:36. | |
There will soon be one fewer among the female bosses in big British | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
firms. The Chief Executive of the fashion firm, Burberry, is quitting | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
to join Apple. Angela Ahrendts has been given the credit for the | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
dechaving the company and finding ever more ingenious ways of getting | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
rich people around the worlded to pay increasing amounts of money for | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
clothing and accessories marked with the distinctive check. The stock | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
market greeted news of her departure by dumping shares in the company, | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
which can't have made for a very happy teatime for her successor. We | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
report now on the transfer market in Chief Executives. The shareholders | :27:15. | :27:22. | |
at Burberry couldn't pay their Chief Executive a higher compliment. She | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
leaves and the share price drops. The city equivalent of Alex | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
Fergusson leaving Manchester United. That is what happened to Angela | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
Ahrendts when she announced she was leaving to run the stores of a | :27:37. | :27:44. | |
company struggling to maintain its Success. Apple will have to pay her | :27:45. | :27:51. | |
well. She made the brand cool. She branched out into other lines. She | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
made her presence felt in emerging economies. Where the emerging | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
economy tourn tourists are coming to Europe Burberry is one of the first | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
places they want to visit. The company had been broadening its | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
appeal and die lighting. Since she took it over in 2006 its | :28:10. | :28:31. | |
valued has trebled. She appeals in a modern way to the middle-classes of | :28:32. | :28:41. | |
China and Japan. That is exactly what Apple needs. If you are the | :28:42. | :28:43. | |
world's number one most fashionable tech company you have an anxiety, | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
staying fashionable. You have to win in those far east markets or you | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
won't be number one any more. Right now Apple is losing. They may be the | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
world's best-known tech company, the cult of Apple was the cult of Steve | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
Jobs. There is doubt that without him it can keep up the growth. With | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
Nokia and BlackBerry in decline, tech companies are desperate for | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
executives who not only run them, but change them, not for the money. | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
I don't think it's about the money. I have worked for many individuals | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
who have moved for less money than they are earning because the | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
challenge, the brand the technology was a motivator that made them move. | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
The money is secondary when we look throughthrough individuals. Who can | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
turn companies round switch companies like Premiership players | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
switching clubs. The top transfers are are: | :29:41. | :29:53. | |
What is it for strongholders that make the right Chief Executive worth | :29:54. | :30:01. | |
so much? Their ability to score goals. If you imagine the plates | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
they need to spin at any one time. They have to consider strategy, they | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
have to consider staff, shareholders and lists. They have to make sure | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
that the brand keeps delivering all of these things have to happen at | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
once. How much of those glittering reputations are down to skill and | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
how much to luck? Before Mark Bowland joined Morrisons had had | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
warned that its profits would disappoint. He joined and in two | :30:31. | :30:37. | |
years the company grew bye-bye a quarter. Marks Spencer hired | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
Bowland and their shares have slumped. He is a retail man, that is | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
what these things are, whether it is beer or food. Fashion is different. | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
What surprised me when Mark Bowland joined is that he didn't change the | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
key people responsible for the fashion. The fashion is middle-aged | :31:01. | :31:09. | |
and dowdy. John Browit would have collected ?36 million for running | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
Apple's stores, he left after six months. Company hiring Chief | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
Executives may believe they are paying for skill, how their latest | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
signing works out also has an element of luck. | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
With nurses Louise Cooper, who is a city analyst -- with us now. And we | :31:27. | :31:35. | |
are joined by Professor Bill George. Professor George, how easy | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
is it for a chief executive to change companies like this? It's | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
very unusual to change from being a CEO and then heading up a part of | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
the company. I think this is a real coup for Apple. A brilliant move to | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
bring in someone with such creative skill. Angela has done an amazing | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
job at Burberry, turning round what could have been a dowdy fashion | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
brand and bringing it round the world. They are the great benefactor | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
here. A wonderful talent who will bring in more creativity in | :32:09. | :32:10. | |
combining the online and retail staff. Ron Johnson set up the Apple | :32:11. | :32:18. | |
Store is very well. They have not had anyone in charge than two years, | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
and I think it is the loss for Burberry. How easy is it for a chief | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
executive to move from one company to another? I think it is | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
interesting what she has done, because Burberry might be a FTSE 100 | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
company but it is tiny compared to Apple. Apple is 100 times larger | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
than Burberry. She has gone from being a very big fish in a small | :32:45. | :32:53. | |
pond to a small fish in a massive, massive pond. Everybody talks about | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
her skills and they say she is brilliant at Digital, because she | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
put the fashion show on line and put the fashion things on twitter. | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
Brilliant, digital, but that's a different level of digital expertise | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
than the iPhone and the iPad. This is quite an unusual move for both | :33:13. | :33:18. | |
sides. Professor, are their common characteristics amongst these people | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
who are handed out by companies to revive their fortunes? Today's CEO | :33:23. | :33:32. | |
's have to address all of the stakeholders and constituencies, so | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
they are public figures. Not just someone who sits in and runs a | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
business and meets the needs of the shareholders and boards. They have | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
to meet the needs of the general public, particularly in a retail | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
business like Apple or Burberry. You have to be out there with the people | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
and have a sense of fashion and where people are going. Steve jobs | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
had that. I think she will bring that to Apple. Do they have common | :33:56. | :34:03. | |
character traits? Warney is being who you are and authentic. Another | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
-- one is being. Another is a willingness to keep balls in the air | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
and the other is being very self-determined. She has proven she | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
has all of those qualities. Frankly, she will be a CEO again, mark my | :34:16. | :34:22. | |
words. I think what she did at Burberry show is one of the most | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
important is to have had to have a vision for the future. What business | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
am I in? Where do I wanted to be? I want to be the best. If you do not | :34:33. | :34:39. | |
have the vision she had at Burberry, but you need it, even if | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
she can't have it Apple. The other thing you need to do is take your | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
staff with you. You are only one person. You need to create leaders | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
and nurture talent. Numbers are easy, people are difficult. You have | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
to be really good people. Take a chord with you? Yes, when you are | :34:58. | :35:04. | |
CEO, you are top of the pile. You have to create people that share the | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
strong vision. There is a great expression which says you cannot | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
blow an uncertain trumpet. You need to know where you are going to go | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
and then take everyone else with you. The mark of a good CEO is that | :35:18. | :35:25. | |
people focus on you. The mark of a bad CEO is the focus on numbers. | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
Numbers are easy, people are difficult. I will have to cut you | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
both off, but thank you very much indeed. George Osborne continued | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
trundling around China today, trying to promote trade between the two | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
countries. As the Chinese economy powers ahead, much of the rest of | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
the world has consoled itself with the vanity that while it may be | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
capable of bashing metal or dying jeans, the real creative work - the | :35:50. | :35:52. | |
most added value - is the property of the West. But is this comforting | :35:53. | :35:54. | |
vanity true? Emily's in Shenzhen. If success is measured by the height | :35:55. | :36:10. | |
of your buildings, the speed of your trains, or the waving of your | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
national flag in space, China's revolution is complete. But the | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
Middle Kingdom is still resolutely middle income. When it comes to | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
high-tech innovation, China still cannot compete with the world 's | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
most profitable companies. That ubiquitous phrase, made in China, | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
has yielded this. But those three words you find on your phone, | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
laptop, tablet, distorts the real story. Yes, they were made here, but | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
the design, the idea behind it, has come from elsewhere. That is where | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
the profits go, and that is what China wants a share now. -- a share | :36:50. | :37:02. | |
of now. At the vanguard of the mission is Huawei, which has become | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
the second largest company in technology on earth. It has global | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
aspirations, and a silicon voice to match. We do intellectual property | :37:12. | :37:18. | |
development and have half of the workforce, 70,000 of the 150,000 | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
they do reach and development. George Osborne arrives here tomorrow | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
to tell Huawei he wants them to invest in Britain. Many companies do | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
not want that investment. A big problem for the high-tech industry | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
in China is that it greeted with suspicion wherever it goes. Huawei | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
has even had claims of spying. The American government accused Huawei | :37:41. | :37:42. | |
being a surveillance company described as a telecoms company. | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
What is your response? Hypothetically, the accusation put | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
to us is that we are being used to do espionage that the Chinese | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
government. We have said we would never do that. If we got a call from | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
Beijing, we would not do that. Why? Because it would be commercial | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
suicide. Another accusation is that China stop companies from companies | :38:06. | :38:13. | |
operating here, and copies their ideas, calling it block and Cologne. | :38:14. | :38:20. | |
First we allow Chinese companies to copycat every international | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
successes. You have Google, we have our own online search. The reason is | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
to draw the Chinese users to the server which they can 100% control. | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
A business model based not on risk and thought but on cut and paste. | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
It's very difficult to create a culture of innovation in a world | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
where communication is censored. If you have a place to innovate, you | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
need at least the Freedom of information or the freedom of | :38:50. | :38:58. | |
speech. Huawei's engineers have headed for lunch. China has invested | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
billions, five times more on research and development, but the | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
trouble is that money cannot deliver a household brand name, top ten | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
university or a Nobel Prize in science. Every day, at 12pm, 10,000 | :39:11. | :39:19. | |
workers descend on the cafeteria for 50 minutes and then they are. This | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
is how China has worked so off -- far, a model of order and | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
efficiency. What it has not been about is a disruption, a questioning | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
of the normal, something that diversifies away from that. Right | :39:32. | :39:38. | |
now, we are putting this on. David is breaking the mould. He studied in | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
Canada and runs one of the most exciting start-ups here. His device | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
allows you to move objects on-screen with the power of thought. So I am | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
trying to make the strawberry explode? Wow! So that was you, you | :39:51. | :40:01. | |
doing that to the strawberry. From your brain. In a culture where | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
deference to authority is paramount, he says that the key is learning to | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
think differently, and that is where China may struggle. One problem is | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
that the education system in China tries to order all of the students | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
to become one ideal model. It is not celebrating the individual | :40:25. | :40:32. | |
characteristics. That is something recognising the root of kindergarten | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
down the road. You won't have seen this before. Here they encourage | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
happy chaos. No uniform, no water, little discipline. Mrs Lee has been | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
a teacher for 22 years and she says things are changing. Everyone has a | :40:46. | :40:56. | |
different personality. We are used to focusing on control, but now we | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
let them have freedom. We want them to explore, be more creative. | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
Unleashing the forces of innovation could take the country to the next | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
level of development, but can China's leaders really afford to let | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
people think differently? Letting go could, at a cost. -- could come at a | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
cost. The result of the literary world's | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
most commercially important book prize was announced tonight at the | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
Guildhall. This year's Man Booker award is the last from which, for | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
good or ill, American authors are excluded. The winner, Eleanor Catton | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
spoke to Kirsty a few minutes ago. There has been great excitement here | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
at the Guildhall in London. The 45th Man Booker Prize has been won by the | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
New Zealander Eleanor Catton for The Luminaries. She is the longest ever | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
-- youngest ever winner with the longest ever book. At first a little | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
ball about The Luminaries. Standing at a colossal 832 pages, the story | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
recounts a series of unsolved crimes, involving a missing wealthy | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
man, a near dead prostitute, and an enormous amount of money found in | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
the home of a luckless recruits. However, as the worker -- reader | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
work through each layer of the story, the layout of the novel takes | :42:13. | :42:22. | |
status -- centrestage. -- the winter -- widow said I am not mistaken. I | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
am very skilled at reading this. The moon is waxing above the cloud and | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
it will be full by Monday night and on Tuesday it will begin to wane. | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
Next month will be a month without a moon. Eleanor Catton is with me. | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
Many congratulations. Robert McFarlane, the chair of the judge | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
panel, said it was an awesome achievement. You are the youngest | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
ever winner, the second New Zealander and it is the longest ever | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
book. What was it like up there tonight? It was overwhelming, | :42:55. | :43:04. | |
actually. I almost can't remember the few minutes after the prize was | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
announced. You essentially wrote a murder mystery, but you can strange | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
yourself in the structure, set around the zodiac. But it was also | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
revealing, because not so many people know about the second gold | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
rush in New Zealand, and it was clearly something you wanted to | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
explore, 19th-century New Zealand. I grew up in Christchurch on the East | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
side of New Zealand. I made a lot of trips to the West Coast with my | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
family to go camping and spend time in the outdoors. It was always a | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
part of New Zealand that captured my mind and heart in a way. Somewhere | :43:39. | :43:49. | |
along the way it had taken root as a possible site for a story. You said | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
you started with the idea of a man going into the bar. Was that the | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
start of a joke? It is like the start of a joke. I was seduced by | :44:00. | :44:08. | |
the idea of a 12th man, a man being not convicted of a crime, but | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
implicated. I had the idea that a 13th man could walk into a gathering | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
where they were discussing this crime that they were implicated by | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
and disrupt their machinations. That is where the book get -- began. You | :44:25. | :44:31. | |
are clearly wanted to make it a 19th-century novel. You have the | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
motifs at the beginning and the moralising. Was that an influence? | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
Was it 19th-century literature? I read a lot of 19th-century | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
literature when I was researching the book, chiefly because I think | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
there are so many thought -- things that. There are so many cultural | :44:48. | :44:54. | |
behaviours or languages that maybe we won't necessarily see. There is | :44:55. | :45:05. | |
so much about Victorian values and beliefs, and I needed to immerse | :45:06. | :45:12. | |
myself. You said at the same time, in a weird way, you up influenced by | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
the idea of a box set, a late 20th-century phenomenon. I am | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
slightly addicted to boxed sets. I'm surprised you get the time. The | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
amount of time it must have taken you to write this! The normal | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
routine is writing in the day, TV at night. You also decided yourself | :45:35. | :45:41. | |
that you would have a containing structure which would end with a | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
tiny sentence at the end. Was that hard to construct? I was obsessed | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
with the idea of the golden ratio when I read the book. That something | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
could have a skeletal shape that would be beautiful in its own right. | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
I tried to put that into the shape of the book as much as I could. | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
Congratulations, you are ?50,000 the richer, doesn't matter so much, but | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
a wonderful achievement. Back to the studio. | :46:10. | :46:11. | |
That's it for tonight. The BBC announced today that they're digging | :46:12. | :46:22. | |
up yet another bunch of long-dead children's TV characters. The | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
Clangers are coming back. To mark this important occasion, we've | :46:26. | :46:27. | |
unearthed a rarity from 39 years ago, believed by some to have been | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
lost forever. In October 1974, the BBC broadcast a special Clangers | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
episode on election day, inspired by creator Oliver Postgate's anger over | :46:37. | :46:39. | |
the miners strike and the three day week. Who knows how it changed the | :46:40. | :46:48. | |
course of history. I make no bones about the excesses... Our planet | :46:49. | :46:55. | |
seems noisy, and it must seem onto other planets. Look, suppose you | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
wanted to have a government, you could choose the government of the | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
soup Dragon, for instance? Free soup for all! That should capture the | :47:09. | :47:20. | |
votes. No soup for the froglets, you do learn fast. Whatever the soup | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
Dragon once, you will give it him. Wait a minute! Wait a minute | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
exhibition mark I was only trying to show how we do things on our planet. | :47:31. | :47:34. |