24/10/2013 Newsnight


24/10/2013

University teachers' pensions, press self-regulation, Front Nationale's Marine Le Pen, billionaire Elon Musk, Antony Gormley on Robert Caro and a Syrian refugee's lethal journey.


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Transcript


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Uh-oh. Just like any other private sector organisation they have to

:00:10.:00:14.

look at how they get a grip on their pension costs. It is the biggest

:00:15.:00:18.

pension fund in the country with the biggest black hole. Almost ?8

:00:19.:00:22.

billion of a shortfall. It is the scheme for university teachers.

:00:23.:00:26.

Balancing the books could result in higher tuition fees. We will try to

:00:27.:00:29.

find out who will end up paying the bill. The death boats that lead some

:00:30.:00:34.

of the wretched of the earth to perish on the sea in sight of

:00:35.:00:40.

Europe. We tell one family's story. We called Allah hu Akbar. They fired

:00:41.:00:47.

at the hull of the boat and left. Water began leaking into the boat.

:00:48.:00:54.

And a blow for freedom or an act of desperation, newspaper publishers

:00:55.:01:00.

apply for a judicial review, a politician's efforts to set up a new

:01:01.:01:09.

press regulator. This matter was shaping up to be something

:01:10.:01:16.

wonderful, but then... Jeremy Clarkson might not like the Tesla

:01:17.:01:22.

electric car, but does the billionare behind it care. His two

:01:23.:01:28.

pet peeves are American cars and electric cars, we are an American

:01:29.:01:33.

electric car, we are in the worse possible situation for someone like

:01:34.:01:38.

him. The death of Anthony Caro who changed the face of British

:01:39.:01:47.

sculpture. Good evening, all kinds of pension

:01:48.:01:50.

funds have been in trouble in recent years, at least in part, because

:01:51.:01:54.

poor stock market performance has seen bad returns on investments. But

:01:55.:02:00.

the problems of the university superannuation SKEERJS or USS,

:02:01.:02:09.

dwarfs the rest. It faces a -- It faces a shortfall of billions. Using

:02:10.:02:16.

the private companies used it would have been ?10. 5 billion. It

:02:17.:02:22.

requires a rise in tuition fees of up to a thousand pounds a year.

:02:23.:02:40.

Drinks and canapes to celebrate exactly 50 years since the

:02:41.:02:42.

Government accepted the recommendations of this man, Lionel

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Robin, before his 1963 report only 5% of people went to university.

:02:49.:02:52.

After it university places trebled. With that went a big expansion in

:02:53.:02:56.

teaching staff, and also the cost of the pensions they were promised. The

:02:57.:03:01.

university superannuation scheme is now the biggest pension fund in the

:03:02.:03:06.

country, with gaping deficit. Here is what the university pension

:03:07.:03:08.

scheme told its 30003,000 -- 300,000 It has just 83% of the money it

:03:09.:03:32.

needs. Critics of the US S, as the

:03:33.:03:35.

university scheme is known, say its managers aren't doing anything like

:03:36.:03:39.

what they must do to close that black hole. There is a whole degree

:03:40.:03:46.

of denial, USS is in denial about its real financial position.

:03:47.:03:49.

Universities are in denial about the cost of pension promise, we have

:03:50.:03:53.

seen private sector pension schemes closing to new members and existing

:03:54.:03:57.

members wholesale over the last few years. USS can't stand up and say

:03:58.:04:03.

they have a real problem, they have been making too small contributions

:04:04.:04:07.

over the last few years. They have been running a very risky investment

:04:08.:04:11.

strategy, this is where it has got us and this is what we need to do.

:04:12.:04:15.

There will be reprecussions for the university sector, if we don't have

:04:16.:04:19.

the reprecussions now or over the next year years, we are giving a

:04:20.:04:23.

very big problem to our children. The thing about FENGSs is they span

:04:24.:04:28.

deck -- pensions is they span deck cautioused you are a member from the

:04:29.:04:34.

start to the day you die. Acties act trees have to make assumptions, at

:04:35.:04:40.

the stroke of an actuary's pen you can gain or win millions. What the

:04:41.:04:48.

actuaries know is what they will pay in future and how much money they

:04:49.:04:52.

have to pay the pensions. What they have to take a guess on is what the

:04:53.:04:56.

money will be worth by the time it is needed. They wave their pen and

:04:57.:05:00.

assume a growth rate. It will be either be enough to fulfil their

:05:01.:05:09.

promises, if not they will have a black hole. Actuaries for private

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firms have to follow a strict formula on working out the debt, FRS

:05:17.:05:21.

17, you have to assume growth based on market rate interest rates. It

:05:22.:05:25.

seems to me completely wrong, where as private sector KRNGS even public

:05:26.:05:31.

sector schemes have to come up with their figures on an FRS 17 basis,

:05:32.:05:40.

USS doesn't do that. That figure is picked out of the air. It is the

:05:41.:05:48.

actuary's magic person. He calculates the deficit at ?10. 5

:05:49.:05:53.

billion, and employers would have to throw a lot more money at the scheme

:05:54.:06:01.

to fix it. There is ?5 00 million coming from the universities, it

:06:02.:06:06.

needs to go up to ?1. 2 billion, the fees will have to go up by ?1,000,

:06:07.:06:15.

it is a ?1 thousand each undergraduate will have to pay for

:06:16.:06:19.

the next ten years. If tuition fees are forced up by that amount every

:06:20.:06:23.

year, the minister who knows about it is the minister for education,

:06:24.:06:29.

David Willetts, he has showed up at conference. Why don't I ask hi If

:06:30.:06:33.

you use the same figures the companies have to use, the deficit

:06:34.:06:39.

is ?10 billion. How do you react? I don't recognise the figure.

:06:40.:06:42.

Universities are autonomous bodies, and one of their financial

:06:43.:06:47.

responsibility is STRAN behind pension -- stand behind pensions.

:06:48.:06:53.

This will push up tuition fees by ?1,000, would you acknowledge these

:06:54.:06:56.

pressures on pensions would make tuition fees more expensive. It

:06:57.:07:00.

would be wrong to expect TU accidents to bail out pension --

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students to bail out pensions that are much more generous than they

:07:07.:07:12.

will enjoy when in work. If higher contributions are needed, how will

:07:13.:07:15.

the universities recover that money? It is worrying for now and the

:07:16.:07:19.

future. It would be an added cost which we would have to cover from

:07:20.:07:25.

tuition fees or some other source, private philanthropy, earnings from

:07:26.:07:29.

consulting or other enterprises. The man just appointed by the USS to run

:07:30.:07:34.

its scheme was two months ago the man who ran the pensions regulator.

:07:35.:07:39.

Is he comfortable with the size of this deficit. Let's be blunt you

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will have to ask the employers sponsoring the scheme to put their

:07:44.:07:46.

hands in their pockets? It is the normal course of deciding how to

:07:47.:07:50.

fund a pension scheme. It is here for the long-term. Was that a yes?

:07:51.:07:56.

We have to look at 80 years. Is that a yes? It is a normal process. It

:07:57.:08:00.

was done in 2008 and 2011, we are looking at it again now. The members

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of the scheme won't like to hear that. University staff are already

:08:05.:08:08.

planning to strike next week over pay. If they are going to discuss to

:08:09.:08:13.

pay more, one, we will want to know that the long-term future of the

:08:14.:08:16.

fund is clearly one that's at risk. Two, we will want to make sure that

:08:17.:08:19.

the employers themselves are making an equal and increased contribution

:08:20.:08:25.

as well. The USS has three-quarters of its money in relatively risky

:08:26.:08:30.

investment, shares, property and alternative investments like a stake

:08:31.:08:34.

in Heathrow, unlike other funds who buy more safe Government bonds. The

:08:35.:08:38.

hope is those investments will rise in value and close up that black

:08:39.:08:41.

hole. That has been a strategy for years now. So far, at least, it

:08:42.:08:46.

hasn't worked. Earlier I spoke to the chair of the

:08:47.:08:53.

employers pension forum, and a pensions expert from Warwick

:08:54.:08:57.

University's Institute for Employment Research, and a USS

:08:58.:09:04.

pensions scheme member. I started by asking how universities ended up

:09:05.:09:07.

running the biggest pension fund deficit in the country? It is not as

:09:08.:09:11.

simple as that. A pension fund deficit can't just be measured on

:09:12.:09:14.

one point in time. It is hugely volatile. One of the things that has

:09:15.:09:17.

happened over the last couple of years, of course, is that bond

:09:18.:09:20.

yields have fallen, because of quanative easing. And the fact it is

:09:21.:09:24.

not the assets of the pension fund that have changed dramatically over

:09:25.:09:28.

the past two years, but you have almost a day-to-day volatility in

:09:29.:09:33.

the liabilities. That is true, everybody's pension fund is the

:09:34.:09:35.

same. It is the worst in Britain and it is getting worse for years on

:09:36.:09:40.

years. Those figures of ?7. 9 billion, at one point in time, we

:09:41.:09:43.

have consulted people who say if you measured it the same way the private

:09:44.:09:49.

industry did it would be ?10. 5 billion. The point is you cannot

:09:50.:09:52.

measure it at a point in time, it can change from month to month and

:09:53.:09:57.

go down as well as up. It is huge? It is large. What we are doing as

:09:58.:10:01.

part of work as employers is to work with the USS, to work with the

:10:02.:10:07.

unions in partnership to produce sustainable pensions. Are you

:10:08.:10:11.

cheered up by that? No, I'm not. I find it rather ridiculous to blame

:10:12.:10:16.

QE. OK it is true that QE has an impact upon bond yields. But QE also

:10:17.:10:23.

has an impact upon bond prices, so any bonds that one has in one's

:10:24.:10:27.

portfolio in increase in value. What do you think the problem is then? I

:10:28.:10:34.

think the problem is a poor match of assets to LANLTS in general. If --

:10:35.:10:41.

LABLTHS in liabilities in general. It is a relatively mature scheme,

:10:42.:10:47.

half of the members are either retired people or deferred

:10:48.:10:51.

pensioners, people who are no longer attributing and probably never will

:10:52.:10:56.

again. If you have those kinds of liabilities you need to match them.

:10:57.:11:00.

Do you see the force of that? Not entirely. I don't agree with all of

:11:01.:11:05.

it. Of course you have to match liabilities and your assets. But in

:11:06.:11:10.

fact what is happening with USS is it is a scheme that has done well in

:11:11.:11:15.

terms of its asset base, it actually has grown. Do you understand anybody

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watching this will say if I'm a student or my son or daughter is a

:11:19.:11:22.

student we will end up paying for it, because the fees will inevitably

:11:23.:11:26.

go up, because there is a huge shortfall? That is not right at all.

:11:27.:11:30.

That is not the approach we are taking. Deficits of this type have

:11:31.:11:33.

to be addressed through a recovery plan, which can take, ten, 15, 20

:11:34.:11:40.

years. The covenant the USS employees have is extremely strong.

:11:41.:11:43.

We can afford to manage it over a long period of time. It is about

:11:44.:11:46.

constructing the right financial management plan, and more

:11:47.:11:49.

importantly, it is about producing sustainable pensions that are right

:11:50.:11:53.

not only for the employers but the employees. It is about working in

:11:54.:11:56.

partnership with the employees to come up with a good plan. Do you

:11:57.:12:01.

think it will inevitably fall on the students? Income comes to

:12:02.:12:03.

universities on the basis of the number of students they have got,

:12:04.:12:06.

the kind of courses that they are teaching them and on the amount of

:12:07.:12:10.

research that they do and the excellence of their research. If you

:12:11.:12:16.

have additional costs coming along, those additional costs, which are

:12:17.:12:20.

over and above any additional costs which are to do with the fact you

:12:21.:12:23.

want to improve the quality of the teaching and your facilities, all

:12:24.:12:29.

those costs have got to come from somewhere. It is a bit like the

:12:30.:12:33.

universities having to go along to the Government and say, I'm terribly

:12:34.:12:38.

sorry but we have lost rather a lot of money because we went down to the

:12:39.:12:42.

local casino and our money disappeared, can we have something

:12:43.:12:45.

to match that hole. And the Government is likely to say, no. You

:12:46.:12:49.

get your money under this formula for those purpose, we don't pay for

:12:50.:12:54.

you to go off and engage in speculative practices. We will leave

:12:55.:13:01.

it there, thank you both very much. Coming up:

:13:02.:13:13.

Then MarineLePen, leader of the far right gets personal. As EU leaders

:13:14.:13:20.

gathered in Brussels, the might of migrants risking their lives to

:13:21.:13:23.

cross the sea is high on their agenda, the Civil War in Syria is

:13:24.:13:28.

swelling numbers trying to reach EU outpost, such as Malta and Italian

:13:29.:13:34.

islands. Attending the summit the President of Italy's Sicilian region

:13:35.:13:38.

said the EU border management agency has failed completely to solve the

:13:39.:13:43.

problem and had transformed the Mediterranean into a large cemetery.

:13:44.:13:50.

Two weeks ago a boat crowded with refugees capsized after the boat was

:13:51.:13:56.

riddled with boats. We spoke to a couple from Damascus who were thrown

:13:57.:14:03.

into the sea. The voices are actors, and there are illustrations.

:14:04.:14:08.

This is their story. I'm Palestinian, we lived in Damascus,

:14:09.:14:19.

in the camp. Me, my wife, my sons, 20-year-old Mulham and ten-year-old

:14:20.:14:23.

Mohammed. I was born there, I lived all my life there. Then the war

:14:24.:14:31.

came. A big war. By plane they attacked us. My home was hit. I had

:14:32.:14:39.

a shop, that too was damaged. Now there are no people there. No

:14:40.:14:49.

people. My family set off for Lebanon. Then Egypt, and finally

:14:50.:14:56.

Libya. I was given a telephone number, they wanted $1300 to take

:14:57.:15:05.

every one of my family on the boat. So expensive. They told us to come

:15:06.:15:14.

to a house, inside were 125 people. And one bathroom. We stayed there

:15:15.:15:18.

for ten days. The conditions were very, very bad. But we are escaping

:15:19.:15:26.

war, so what other choice is there. They told us it was a good boat, it

:15:27.:15:31.

was not a good boat. It was old, very old. They wanted us to be

:15:32.:15:37.

scared of them and not complain. They swore at us and said bad

:15:38.:15:44.

things. They pushed us on. 300 adults and 100 children. After one

:15:45.:15:52.

hour a boat caught up with us, they said they were Libyan police. But

:15:53.:15:56.

maybe they were just militia, they told us to follow them. (Gunfire) at

:15:57.:16:05.

first, they fired into the sky. Then into the water. Then they aimed at

:16:06.:16:12.

the captain. The children cried, the women cried. I pushed my wife and

:16:13.:16:19.

sons under me, to shield them. We called, Allah hu Akbar, Allah hu

:16:20.:16:24.

Akbar. They fired at the hull of the boat and left. Water began leaking

:16:25.:16:34.

into the boat. The captain told us it would be OK, I knew it wasn't

:16:35.:16:37.

true. But I didn't want my wife to worry. I told her everything would

:16:38.:16:42.

be OK. You have a life jacket, you will be safe. The waves were so big,

:16:43.:16:52.

and the boat rocked from side to side. Then came a big wave. I saw

:16:53.:17:00.

people falling into the water. My family went into the water. I could

:17:01.:17:08.

not see them. Some cannot swim. One man came to me and tried to take my

:17:09.:17:14.

life jacket. He pushed me down in the water. He was killing me. My

:17:15.:17:19.

eldest son appeared, he pushed him away. He hit him. I can hear young

:17:20.:17:28.

Mohammed, "babbab I'm here". I kissed him I took his hand. Where is

:17:29.:17:33.

mamma. I told my son to go and bring her to us. He swim away through the

:17:34.:17:38.

dead bodies, many dead bodies, he was swimming and crying. Swimming

:17:39.:17:47.

and crying. I saw bodies floating, no movement. So many bodies. Then,

:17:48.:17:59.

there is my wife. All life! She told me she never expected to survive.

:18:00.:18:04.

She thought this would be the finish for her. Finally boats arrived to

:18:05.:18:16.

rescue us. I'm lucky to have my family, everyone else lost someone.

:18:17.:18:24.

Today my son said "I have nothing, I am empty, I have no money, no

:18:25.:18:32.

clothes, nothing, no one helps us, no-one". I'm trying not to cry. The

:18:33.:19:01.

story of one family trying to come to you It was said in French that

:19:02.:19:10.

they would like to see an opposition member swinging from a tree that in

:19:11.:19:14.

parliament. You might wonder why they are seeking an alliance with

:19:15.:19:19.

UKIP in the next elections? What happened to give the National Front

:19:20.:19:24.

so decisive a victory? And whatever it was, is it also now stirring

:19:25.:19:29.

across France? Polite society has always regarded the party as,

:19:30.:19:36.

TREEMist, racist even -- extremist, racist even, appealing only to the

:19:37.:19:43.

fanatic, but the majority of the town backed them. Are they racist?

:19:44.:19:46.

The mayor thinks not. A The winning candidate is a local

:19:47.:20:03.

hero here now, he believes Marine Le Pen, who has replaced her father

:20:04.:20:12.

Jean Marie Le Pen as leader has transformed their fortunes.

:20:13.:20:24.

The light is beginning to go now, the town is tipping into evening. We

:20:25.:20:28.

have spent most of the day here, we have spoken to quite a few people

:20:29.:20:31.

who have told us they voted for the National Front and explained why,

:20:32.:20:35.

privately, not one of them could be persuaded to go on camera. Which

:20:36.:20:39.

suggests there is still a public stigma attached to it. Their reasons

:20:40.:20:45.

for voting that way can be easily distilled into a powerful

:20:46.:20:48.

combination of disaffection, immigration, people living on

:20:49.:20:52.

benefit, the fear of crime, a national political elite in both

:20:53.:20:55.

main parties that seems unresponsive to the public mood. And about power

:20:56.:20:59.

in the European Union, which seems now simply unaccountable. This is

:21:00.:21:04.

about people in a democracy who feel they have been disempowered. And so

:21:05.:21:11.

Marine Le Pen believes her time has come. She now claims to lead a

:21:12.:21:16.

party, not of the extreme right, but of patriotism, that transcends

:21:17.:21:20.

left-right politics. She says she has partners growing in strength, in

:21:21.:21:25.

the netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Finland, Sweden, as the time of

:21:26.:21:28.

anti-EU sentiment rises everywhere. Do you expect to be the biggest

:21:29.:21:56.

party in France at next year's What about the UK Independence

:21:57.:22:34.

Party, UKIP, do you see them as potential allies?

:22:35.:23:13.

Do you have natural allies in this movement, inside the British

:23:14.:23:18.

Conservative Party as well. Are you talking to them too?

:23:19.:23:46.

While her father once railed against communism, she now attacks global

:23:47.:23:54.

capitalism. And the European Union. Outflanking the left, she hopes, on

:23:55.:23:57.

social justice, and the right on the question of national sovereignty.

:23:58.:24:02.

She believes the EU and what she sees as its vast unelected

:24:03.:24:05.

bureaucracy is doomed to collapse. This is how she described Britain's

:24:06.:24:10.

Katherine Ashton. The head of the EU's foreign affairs service.

:24:11.:24:42.

You think Baroness Ashton's presence in her job helps your cause because

:24:43.:24:56.

it makes everybody more euro-sceptic?

:24:57.:25:07.

Let me ask you about immigration. That's a very powerful issue for

:25:08.:25:14.

you, but to many people who oppose you, it sounds like old fashioned

:25:15.:25:20.

European anti-Muslim zenophobia. But the Europe you want is a Europe

:25:21.:25:56.

of national fortresses, borders, barriers. Limiting trade, limiting

:25:57.:26:01.

economic activity. You want to retreat to national silos?

:26:02.:26:31.

If they succeed in building this pan-European alliance, it could have

:26:32.:27:07.

an immediate impact on the whole edifice of European Government. For

:27:08.:27:10.

one thing this institution, the parliament, always strongly

:27:11.:27:14.

pro-federalist in the past will have, for the first time in its

:27:15.:27:19.

history, at its heart, a strong and coherent group dedicated to

:27:20.:27:23.

dismantling much of the post-war European project. Second and more

:27:24.:27:26.

decisive will be the impact that group has on Governments back home.

:27:27.:27:30.

Mainstream pro-European parties will be under greater populist pressure

:27:31.:27:34.

than ever before to demonstrate that they can stand up for national

:27:35.:27:40.

interest against those of the European Union.

:27:41.:27:44.

There was a very peculiar car launch in Britain today, it is the Tesla S,

:27:45.:27:49.

electric car, which claims to be able to reach 60 miles an hour in

:27:50.:27:54.

just over four seconds. Finally putting an end to the idea that

:27:55.:27:58.

electric cars are basically milk floats without the power but of a

:27:59.:28:06.

lawn power engine. The creator made his fortune in PayPal and other

:28:07.:28:11.

ventures and is spending it on the Tesla project and sending rockets

:28:12.:28:16.

into space. What we tried to achieve with the model S was to create a

:28:17.:28:22.

compelling electric car, something really different from people's prior

:28:23.:28:28.

experience. The last time they drove an electric car was a golf cart or

:28:29.:28:33.

milk float. They are used to, their idea of an electric car is something

:28:34.:28:38.

that doesn't look good, isn't fast, doesn't have high performance and

:28:39.:28:42.

has low range. We wanted to break the MOULD of all of that. Produce

:28:43.:28:45.

something brilliant with high acceleration, incredible handling.

:28:46.:28:50.

Tonnes of capability, lots of room. And really was better than any

:28:51.:28:54.

gasoline car. That is what we sought to achieve. This is the front trunk.

:28:55.:29:03.

With nothing? With nothing in it. If somebody buys this car in the UK

:29:04.:29:06.

now, how many places are there where you can plug it in? Anywhere there's

:29:07.:29:13.

an electrical outle Anywhere, there is nothing special about the

:29:14.:29:19.

electric applicators? The charger can be plugged in wherever you go,

:29:20.:29:22.

if you are travelling somewhere, in a cottage, at a hotel. In addition

:29:23.:29:28.

to that however we are going to be KRATH supercharge locations

:29:29.:29:32.

throughout the UK. You will be able to charge anywhere at a Tesla

:29:33.:29:37.

supercharger location and one of the things that we do, with these

:29:38.:29:40.

supercharge locations is they are free. If you buy a Tesla you will be

:29:41.:29:45.

able to travel for free anywhere in children. And it is free forever.

:29:46.:29:51.

One more thing to that, we are installing solar panel at the

:29:52.:29:54.

supercharger locations intended to generate more electricity in the

:29:55.:29:58.

course of the year than the cars consume that charge there. So the

:29:59.:30:03.

net result is you will not only be able to travel for free forever but

:30:04.:30:08.

on pure sunlight. On this question of our energy bills, that is a huge

:30:09.:30:12.

political topic here and now. Have we got it wrong in terms of where

:30:13.:30:17.

we're sourcing our energy? Mark my words, solar will be the single

:30:18.:30:21.

largest producer in the UK long-term. You may say isn't it

:30:22.:30:24.

rather cloudy around here. I was going to say, have you ever been

:30:25.:30:28.

outside? Yes, even though it is cloudy, you still get 80-90% of the

:30:29.:30:32.

energy coming through the clouds. You don't have that bright point

:30:33.:30:38.

source of a sun. Way to appreciate this perhaps is to look at the fact

:30:39.:30:44.

that plants are essentially a solar-powered chemical

:30:45.:30:49.

resatisfaction and the UK is a very green country. You live in

:30:50.:30:54.

California and travel to San Francisco, you are interested in

:30:55.:30:57.

whether it is possible to travel by a hyperloop, you go at 8 HUP MIELGS

:30:58.:31:03.

an house on the ground, like a train from Los Angeles to San Francisco.

:31:04.:31:09.

Do we suffer from a low-level of ambition, should we think bigger

:31:10.:31:13.

than HS 2 and think about something like this? I think so. For reasons

:31:14.:31:21.

beyond the objective of getting there faster. You want to do

:31:22.:31:25.

projects that are inspiring and make people excited about the future.

:31:26.:31:29.

Life's got to be about more than just solving problems. When I get up

:31:30.:31:33.

in the morning and say yes, I'm looking forward to that thing

:31:34.:31:37.

happening. I guess that was my central disappointment with the

:31:38.:31:41.

California called high-speed rail. I was looking at that and think they

:31:42.:31:44.

did better things in Japan 30 years ago. They have got something way

:31:45.:31:49.

better in China, why are we doing this? And spending so much money on

:31:50.:31:53.

it? It is going to take 20 years and by that time we will be 50 years

:31:54.:31:57.

behind what they have in Japan, I mean? This just doesn't make sense.

:31:58.:32:01.

That was my reaction. That was your reaction to what is happening in

:32:02.:32:04.

California, we are behind California? Oh my good, really!

:32:05.:32:08.

Difficult though it may be to imagine? Wow! That is brutal! Most

:32:09.:32:19.

unfortunate. The other big part of his life is with his company SpaceX,

:32:20.:32:24.

which is committed to improving rocket technology and even getting

:32:25.:32:32.

the human race to other planets. Do you see really the future must be in

:32:33.:32:36.

space for the human race, you really see this, this is not science

:32:37.:32:43.

fiction this is going to be a fact? History fundamental bifucats, either

:32:44.:32:52.

this, we are either a multiplanet species, or a single species waiting

:32:53.:32:58.

for extinction. It is that I find more motivating, which is you are

:32:59.:33:03.

going and setting up a base on Mars would be the greatest adventure

:33:04.:33:07.

ever. Not everyone is a fan, back on earth Tesla sued the programme top

:33:08.:33:12.

gear, after it -- top Gear after it rubbished the Tesla roadster, it

:33:13.:33:21.

lost, what does he think about Jeremy Clarkson? Clarkson's show is

:33:22.:33:24.

much more about entertainment than truth. Most people realised that but

:33:25.:33:33.

not everyone. I have actually enjoyed a lot of his show. It is not

:33:34.:33:37.

as though I hate Top Gear or anything, he can be very funny and

:33:38.:33:45.

irref rent, but he -- irref rent, he has a problem with electric cars and

:33:46.:33:51.

Americans. His two pet peeves are American cars and electric cars, we

:33:52.:33:55.

are an American electric car, we are in the worst possible situation for

:33:56.:33:59.

someone like Clarkson. Do you see this as missionary activity, you are

:34:00.:34:06.

over here trying to convert Jeremy Clarkson? I don't think there will

:34:07.:34:09.

be any converting of Jeremy Clarkson. That seems quite unlikely.

:34:10.:34:20.

Can you swim? You al bought the James Bond Lotus? I did from Spy Who

:34:21.:34:27.

Loved Me. I can see the fun in that? That is the reason. There is no

:34:28.:34:33.

grand project. We're not going to mass produce you know cars that turn

:34:34.:34:40.

into submarines. What I'm going to try to do, it is a low priority

:34:41.:34:44.

project, I have my day jobs. We want to see if we can make it do what it

:34:45.:34:48.

appears to do in the movie for real. I don't know if it will be

:34:49.:34:51.

successful, but we will try. Thank you very much. Now there have been

:34:52.:34:57.

two big developments on attempts to regulate newspapers and magazines

:34:58.:35:00.

tonight. Some of the publishers are now applying to the High Court for a

:35:01.:35:03.

judicial review of the decision by politicians to reject the

:35:04.:35:07.

newspapers' ideas on a regulator, they call it IP sow, we have also

:35:08.:35:13.

learned a lot more about how this new newspaper-driven regulator could

:35:14.:35:18.

operate. I'm joined by my guests in a moment. This new newspaper-driven

:35:19.:35:39.

regulator could operate. I'm joined by my guests in a moment. So will

:35:40.:35:41.

this happen?. Leveson said there would be a regular traitor that

:35:42.:35:45.

could fine, and have an arbitary service, and fundamentally it would

:35:46.:35:49.

be independent of press interests, and critically politicians. However,

:35:50.:35:54.

in order to stop history PREETing itself. This had all been said

:35:55.:35:58.

before. He said we have had decades of this and there is a common

:35:59.:36:03.

pattern. There is a scandal and outrage, a commission and agreement

:36:04.:36:07.

and nothing happens. There is a crisis, commission and history

:36:08.:36:13.

repeating itself. In order to stop this happening, in order to make

:36:14.:36:17.

sure in five years time a regulator is up for the job. We will set up

:36:18.:36:21.

another body to play a policing role, give it an occasional once

:36:22.:36:25.

over to the self-regulator. This is all about how this recognition body,

:36:26.:36:30.

called, is to be established. Now, David Cameron said he didn't want it

:36:31.:36:34.

to be done by statute, nobody wanted statute, because statute means MPs,

:36:35.:36:37.

parliament, and political interference. They came up with a

:36:38.:36:41.

wheeze, which was a royal charter, it has official standing but not

:36:42.:36:46.

technically a statute. The problem with royal charters is nobody really

:36:47.:36:49.

knows very much about how they work, it is a medieval process and it is

:36:50.:36:54.

very, very unclear. Around every corner it is producing unintended

:36:55.:36:58.

consequences. So, the Government produced a cross-party charter to

:36:59.:37:01.

establish the recognition body, the press didn't like it for a variety

:37:02.:37:05.

of reasons, mainly that it could only be changed by politicians, by

:37:06.:37:10.

two thirds majorities in both Houses of Parliament. So the press put in

:37:11.:37:14.

their own royal charter, the rules of the Privy Council means you can't

:37:15.:37:18.

have two, one had to be rejected. At Privy Council committee eight

:37:19.:37:22.

current serving ministers rejected the press's version. What has

:37:23.:37:24.

happened today is the press have said they are now going to try to

:37:25.:37:28.

challenge that decision to reject their charter by the eight members

:37:29.:37:31.

of the Privy Council with a judicial review. Two things, first it is not

:37:32.:37:36.

even clear that it is legally possible to challenge, to judicially

:37:37.:37:42.

review the Privy Council. What the press is doing here and they are

:37:43.:37:46.

open about it is try to put a spanner in the works and slow down

:37:47.:37:50.

the process. Judicial review slows down the process, meanwhile their

:37:51.:37:54.

own self-regulator gets started, they hope with time their own

:37:55.:37:57.

self-regulator will see the pressure to do more reduced. There is a

:37:58.:38:03.

number of points there? I quite enjoyed that, it is quite good. The

:38:04.:38:08.

main point is, David Cameron doesn't accept what you are doing, the three

:38:09.:38:12.

parties don't accept what you are doing, the victims don't accept what

:38:13.:38:15.

you are doing. The public according to the opinion polls don't accept

:38:16.:38:18.

what you are doing. Whatever the good faith it is not acceptable? I

:38:19.:38:21.

don't think that is entirely the case. If you see the various opinion

:38:22.:38:26.

polls the public say on the one hand they want to make sure there is an

:38:27.:38:29.

independent self-regulator with proper independence built into it.

:38:30.:38:32.

The other hand they say they don't want the sticky fingers of

:38:33.:38:36.

politicians in it either. In many ways it is an exercise in

:38:37.:38:40.

pragmatisim, there is a moral imperative. Leveson has said create

:38:41.:38:44.

a self-regulator. Leveson said there should be a back stop and something

:38:45.:38:49.

to stop the circle Steve was talking about, good faith is all great for a

:38:50.:38:53.

few years then the bad old days? Even the newspapers in the version

:38:54.:38:56.

announced today the recognition part of that has a great deal of

:38:57.:39:00.

independent built into it. The Government started talking about

:39:01.:39:03.

voluntary self-regulation, the newspaper industry is saying we will

:39:04.:39:06.

try to create something that is voluntary, that is tougher than what

:39:07.:39:09.

went before, better than what went before and actual legal we will

:39:10.:39:14.

hopefully be able to command it. This is most of what you want. It

:39:15.:39:17.

will be up and running, is it really worth continuing the fight when you

:39:18.:39:22.

have got virtually everything? There are several, the main points are

:39:23.:39:28.

what Leveson wanted to put in place, was to have a structure that

:39:29.:39:32.

couldn't be changed. Otherwise the press go back to their old trick,

:39:33.:39:37.

exactly what they did in 1990. What is happening now with the press, you

:39:38.:39:41.

have three very rich people living outside the UK, don't pay tax, who

:39:42.:39:51.

run the Telegraph, the Mail and the Sun/Times group. Those people are

:39:52.:39:53.

putting two fingers up to parliament and the public in this country. And

:39:54.:39:56.

they have got no respect for democracy, they have no respect for

:39:57.:40:00.

the rule of law. They are trying now to push the whole thing into the

:40:01.:40:03.

long grass. They might have all the papers with them in the end. The

:40:04.:40:09.

Guardian the Independent and the FT have been some what sniffy about it,

:40:10.:40:12.

but there are signs they might join it. None of the papers wants what

:40:13.:40:17.

you want? I don't think that is entirely right. The fundamental

:40:18.:40:19.

thing for me is access to justice. At the moment unless you are a

:40:20.:40:23.

millionaire you can't sue for breach of briefcy or defamation. That must

:40:24.:40:28.

be wrong. You need an arbitary body. That is missing from the press

:40:29.:40:32.

prososals but very much in Leveson I think you will find that despite

:40:33.:40:35.

what the press are doing, there will be a regulator, it will appear and

:40:36.:40:40.

the respectable press, the ones who have regard to law and rule and so

:40:41.:40:46.

on, they will join it. It will happen the way he wants it is, in

:40:47.:40:50.

the end and the respectable press will join? I'm counted by that, I

:40:51.:40:56.

will be excluded from that. We could be positive for fraction of a

:40:57.:41:00.

second, there will be a new regulator with considerable powers

:41:01.:41:03.

that the previous institution the PCC didn't have. That is going to

:41:04.:41:07.

happen. But your judicial review is just a way of delaying things that

:41:08.:41:10.

the Government wants so you can get this up and running? The judicial

:41:11.:41:14.

review is a theological point. A view that the industry holds dearly,

:41:15.:41:19.

but for 300 years we have not had the politicians with the direct

:41:20.:41:22.

means of interfering. We haven't got direct means, there is no direct

:41:23.:41:25.

means for a politician to interfere under Leveson. You have first of all

:41:26.:41:29.

a supervisory body and that supervisor is a regulator also

:41:30.:41:33.

independent. Two independent bodies between you and the politicians.

:41:34.:41:38.

Ultimately two thirds majority of parliament, what is the one issue

:41:39.:41:42.

you can unite parliamentarians on and disdain and disagreement with

:41:43.:41:45.

the press, they can influence the body. You were on the PCC when Siena

:41:46.:41:53.

Miller was harassed and the McCanns, whatever the good faith the

:41:54.:41:56.

regulators of the past have all failed? If I were here arguing for

:41:57.:42:00.

the status quo that would be a powerful argument. In a pragmatic

:42:01.:42:05.

attempt to get this morning and get something created that people can

:42:06.:42:09.

rely on the industry is putting up something that could possibly work.

:42:10.:42:16.

One of the most important sculptures -- sculptors of the last century has

:42:17.:42:23.

died, Anthony Caro, studied engineering at Cambridge and then

:42:24.:42:27.

studied as part-time assistant to Moore. He used steals, lead, wood

:42:28.:42:39.

and paper. He was an inspiration for many. Anthony Gormley joins me, he

:42:40.:42:44.

was an inspiration to you? It is extraordinary, in the late 50s there

:42:45.:42:49.

was Anthony Caro trying to think how to engage with the body not as

:42:50.:42:53.

appearance, not as a narrative figure in some kind of tableau, but

:42:54.:42:59.

actually how it feels to be inside a body. And he made a series of works,

:43:00.:43:08.

Man Taking His Shirt Off, Woman Waking Up. They were completely

:43:09.:43:11.

revolutionly, and three years later he goes to America and he has this

:43:12.:43:17.

Paul line conversion, comes back with colour and GIRDers as his

:43:18.:43:24.

PROOIF primary material and -- as his primary material and liberates

:43:25.:43:29.

himself from the body, he never forgets the body, and he never

:43:30.:43:34.

forgets the way cullpure acts on the body of the viewer. Taking things

:43:35.:43:39.

off the plinth and bringing them down literally and metaphorically to

:43:40.:43:43.

our level. Does that changes obviously the way you look at t you

:43:44.:43:47.

are not looking at something the way you worship it? It is no longer a

:43:48.:43:53.

heroic or exemplary thing. Some how it comes to be a piece of mental

:43:54.:43:58.

furniture in our world. I think he liberated, he liberated cullpure

:43:59.:44:04.

into a kind of -- sculpture into a kind of freedom of making for its

:44:05.:44:09.

own sake that changed it absolutely and forever. And we all owe him an

:44:10.:44:15.

enormous debt. He owed a debt to Moore, he was critical of the late

:44:16.:44:22.

Henry Moore. He then founded his own school at St Martins and spawned a

:44:23.:44:27.

whole other generation that in a sense rejected him and started the

:44:28.:44:35.

Richard Long, bare Flanagan and other concept actual schools. The

:44:36.:44:40.

other things that are quite inspirational about him, he was 89,

:44:41.:44:44.

the last exhibition opening in the summer in Venice, he wanted to work

:44:45.:44:49.

until he was 100, he was constantly creating, he couldn't stop? He was a

:44:50.:44:54.

great and permanent sort of example and inspiration that you live to

:44:55.:45:01.

work, the work is itself intensely engaging and enjoyable. You can see

:45:02.:45:06.

it in all of these works behind us. That sense of in a way making

:45:07.:45:11.

something that didn't exist before for the sake of seeing how it felt

:45:12.:45:20.

when it was made, and that idea of change, of impermanence and yet

:45:21.:45:25.

making something like this fixed, that invites you to look around,

:45:26.:45:33.

walk around, and some how intergreat that into your mental and feeling

:45:34.:45:40.

kind of yeah extended body experience. He did another show in

:45:41.:45:46.

London, Gagosian, which wasn't his gallery, called the Park Lane

:45:47.:45:50.

Series, he was invited to do this amazing idea of a sequence of

:45:51.:45:55.

sculptures down Park Lane in New York. That didn't happen but he made

:45:56.:46:00.

them any way and he showed them in a sequence of rooms. That was

:46:01.:46:02.

absolutely fantastic. That was earlier this year, it was a tour de

:46:03.:46:07.

force. These extraordinary work that is for the first time he used

:46:08.:46:15.

circular round bar and hung on to these onsistently horizontal bars

:46:16.:46:20.

bits of old plough share. The tank of a compressor, bits of steel that

:46:21.:46:27.

had come off a rolling mill and then sort of dropped on to the floor. And

:46:28.:46:32.

some how he used these heavy objects as if they were music. We will leave

:46:33.:46:38.

it there thank you very much. We wanted to remember Karadzic through

:46:39.:46:42.

some of his work and some of his own words. I'm back tomorrow, good

:46:43.:46:47.

night. I wanted them to be special enough to be sculptures, but not to

:46:48.:46:53.

be stuck up there away from us, they had to have a real character, and if

:46:54.:46:57.

they didn't have that they would just be decoration, bits of railway

:46:58.:47:03.

equipment or something. But no, they had to carry their emotional

:47:04.:47:08.

meaning. Sculpture is food for the eyes and food for the soul. And

:47:09.:47:16.

these are just things that human beings do, they chance, they make

:47:17.:47:22.

music, they carve little pebbles or they take little bits of clay and

:47:23.:47:26.

stick them together. That is just a natural MUM thing. Animals don't do

:47:27.:47:29.

The black hole in university teachers' pensions. The press goes it alone on self-regulation. An interview with Front Nationale's Marine Le Pen, and one with billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk. Antony Gormley on Robert Caro. And a Syrian refugee's lethal journey to Europe.


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