28/10/2013 Newsnight


Newsnight reveals an exclusive story - tune in for the details. Plus Iran's secret war in Syria, storm St Jude and Rufus Wainright on Lou Reed. With Jeremy Paxman.

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Good evening. The woman sacked after the Baby P


case will get a small fortune in a secret payout deal, Newsnight can


reveal. Go The head of child protection services at Harringay


Council will get a ?600,000 legal payout, some of it from Central


Government simply because the proper hoops weren't jumped through before


Ed Balls announced her sacking. A defender of Sharon Shoesmith and


one of her Parliamentary critics are here to count the cost.


These pictures show Syrian rebels ambushing and killing what they


assumed were government forces. It turned out their opponents were


Iranian Revolutionary Guards. What were they doing there?


St Jude brings four fatalities and knocks over trees, but in the end


doesn't cause the chaos that was predicted. Did we over react?


And we remember Lou Reed in all his charm. I don't like journalists. I


despise them. Mainly the English, the pigs.


His friend Rufus Wainright explains his unique contribution to music and


pop culture. You will remember the killing of


Peter Connelly - Baby P as he was called. He died after being injured


for months while theoretically under the supervision of Haringey social


services in London. There was great public disquiet, and in the furore


afterwards, the head of Children's Services, Sharon Shoesmith, was


sacked. The Appeal Court later ruled that she had been unfairly


dismissed. Now Newsnight can reveal that Ms Shoesmith, who has not


worked since losing her job, is to be paid hundreds of thousands of


pounds of public money in compensation. Allegra Stratton has


the story. Sharon Shoesmith always thought it was wrong that she learnt


of her sacking from the television. To ensure venerable children in the


borough are properly protected. I have directed Haringey Council


totted to appoint Mr John Cofflin as Director of Children's services.


In 2011 the Court of Appeal agreed with Shoesmith. It ruled that her


removal from office by the then Children's Secretary, Ed Balls, and


choux myth's employers, Haringey Council had been unfair. Now, two


years on, she is to get compensation. Newsnight understands


that Sharon Shoesmith has settled for one source says is over


?600,000. Haringey Council will meet the lion's shares of this, but the


Department for Education will dump up some of it, but the whole deal is


controversial. Haringey Council has also imposed a confidentiality


clause on the deal. It means the exact sum can't be disclosed. When


contacted by Newsnight, one Government source said the Secretary


of State for education, Michael Gove, was furious at the


confidentiality clause. He is said to think it is indefensible. Baby


Peter Connolly died despite being seen 60 times by social services,


police and health services. The child's body had 50 injuries


including a broken back and broken ribs inflicted by his mother.


After the trial, an Ofsted report found failings in Sarn Shoesmith's


-- Sharon choux Smith's department. Ed Balls had not given Shoesmith a


chance to respond to the report and contravened procedure. My sorrow at


the death of Peter Connolly while I was director is something which will


stay with me for the rest of my life. But as the judges said, making


a public sacrifice of an individual would not prevent further tragedies.


Since then, she has unable to find work and has had to claim benefits.


When Shoesmith won her case in 2011 Ed Balls maintained that even had he


given her a chance to respond, he would have made the same decision.


He is joined by politicians on all sides of the House who believe


ministers must have the right to act quickly and that public servants


should be held accountable. The current Government looks like it


will pay for Shoesmith's sacking by televised press conference, but on


this occasion, you are unlikely to hear them crow about it.


With us now is Ray Jones, Professor of Social Work who is writing a book


on the Baby Peter case; and Charlotte Leslie, Conservative MP


and member of the education select committee which grilled Sharon


Shoesmith in 2010. Do you understand how angry many members of the public


will be at this news? I understand that people should be angry about


what happened to Peter Connolly. He had a terrible life and those people


who worked really hard to protect were not successful in doing that. I


understand the anger... But do you understand... I understand the DJ


that's been done to our child protection system as a consequence


of that anger. Do you understand how angry they


will be at the fact that hundreds of thousands of pounds of public money


are being given to Sharon Shoesmith? I understand the anger, but as I


said, my real concern is what is happening to the child protection


system and we have made it harder to protect children because of the


blame culture that he we cre aid and the type of vigilante action.


What do you make of this settlement? It is simple. You have got to ask


what responsibility means? When she was in her position, Sharon


Shoesmith got a very large salary. Showing leadership means showing


when something goes wrong, you take responsibility and make yourself


accountable. The thing there most people are angry is that


whistle-blowers also lose their jobs, but a lady like Sharon


Shoesmith walks away with a big pay-off and has not taken the


personal option to take personal responsibility.


But this is a who who she thinks will never work again? If she wants


to perhaps make her chances of getting a job higher, it would be to


demonstrate she understands what personal accountability and


responsibility is about and say I was carrying the can. I was head of


this department and I take responsibility. That would be the


kind of person I would be more likely to employ than someone who


says, "It was nothing to do with me. I am sorry about what happened. But


it was nothing to do with me." We have seen this not only in care, but


throughout the NHS as well. It seems endemic.


It is the size of this payment. I mean ?600,000. The biggest pay-off


last year for unfair dismissal was 236 thou. The average is about


?10,000. And Rebekah Brooks got ?10 million.


She was working for News International? When something goes


wrong, there is a tragedy, we have 50 to 70 children in England who die


because of abuse by their parents. We protect a large number of


children very well, but it is getting difficult to get people to


work in this job of protecting children, police officers,


paediatricians and social workers because when something terrible


happens, we get the blame we are hearing about today and who wants to


put themselves in that position of doing a really hard job knowing when


something terrible happens, they are out to get you.


That's a fair point, isn't it? A blame culture is not the same as a


culture where people take accountability and responsibility.


There are whistle-blowers who are trying to raise the alarm. Who are


trying to do things the right way. Kim Holt is an example. It is often


the whistle-blower. The whistle-blowers are trying to raise


the fact that there are concerns. Now that's not a culture of blame.


Someone is saying the system is covering th stuff. If someone is at


the top of an organisation covering stuff up and not performing properly


and lives put at risk, that's simple accountability.


Do you think it is as high as ?600,000? I have no idea. It is not


a figure I heard before. I don't know whether it is true or not. The


conversation we're having will do nothing to help us to protect


children better in the future. It will make it harder for people to


come into this business because they know as I say saying now, when


something goes wrong, we might talk about accountability, but it feels


like blame and that's my concern. Who wants to do a really difficult


job when you know that when it gets really hard, you will be in the


firing line? There is something of a lynch mob that comes into play at


times like this? The way to protect patients in NHS and children is a


system whereby people feel comfortable in coming forward and


saying something is not right. I am not happy about the way the system


is, working. I don't think that not whoeding people -- holding people


accountable at top is. To say yes, I was leading a dysfunctional


organisation. I myself voluntarily will do what most people would think


to be the descent thing and then you don't get this lynch mob. People are


angry because you have got someone who was earning a lot of money who


is found to be at the top of an organisation that needed reform, was


not doing that are her salary and says, "It is not my fault." The


organisation was found to be dysfunctional after all the media


attention was given and there was the hun cry. This organisation was


found by Ofsted to be doing well. It was rated as good and Sharon


Shoesmith's leadership was seen as positive. It changed quickly when


there was a petition run by The Sun seeking sackings. We had a different


picture about Haringey about that. I think there is an interesting point


here. Often our inspectorate are not doing the right job either and


people put ticking boxes before what is going on. So yes, inspectorates


need to get better, but people at the top need to take responsibility


for the organisations they head up. Thank you very much.


Coming up: The legacy of Lou Reed. Inspectors


supposed to be checking the Syrian government's stocks of chemical


weapons have been unable to get to two of the sites they want to visit,


it emerged today. Too dangerous, apparently. The war, meanwhile


continues its barbarous way with Government forces said to have


retaken a Christian town north of Damascus, part of which had fallen


to the rebels a week ago. The United Nations representative supposed to


prepare the way for peace talks reached the Syrian capital today.


Lyse Doucet is there. So what can you tell us?


Well, it is good news that he is back in the Syrian capital. He


hasn't been here since December and that's a long time when you are


trying to bring peace and an end to a war which changes shape every


month, but when I interviewed him in January, he diplomatically said that


40 years is a little bit too long as he put it for one family, the Assad


family to be in power. He hasn't been back to Damascus since then.


The fact that he is here, indicates that President Assad maybe willing


to give him a hearing or a message. The problem is few in the opposition


want anything to do with President Assad and even though there is a lot


of talk about a conference that will take place next month, 23rd


November, most of the powerful renegades said it would be an act of


treason. The main opposition groups haven't made up their minds and


President Assad says he will run for the elections next year. You can't


want peace more than the parties for the conflict want it.


Is there any sign of who is inwithing the war? -- winning the


war? No one is winning and no one is losing and no one has been able to


inflict the fatal blow to turn the tide. It is very difficult to say


who controls what percentage of the dertry, but the most reliable


figures I have seen from good sources is president Assad's forces


have lost 60% of Syria, but on the 40% they control, they control most


of the population and they control one of the main prizes in this war


and that's this capital Damascus. Since I was here a few months ago,


there are more checkpoints in the city, but it is relatively quiet as


was the last visit than it was say six months ago. The Government feels


very much in control in what is called the bubble of Damascus. A


different picture in the suburbs which are burning and at least one


suburb people are starving. They haven under siege. Someone told me


today, you can't get a peace of bread into some of those


neighbourhoods and the UN agencies have been calling for an end to the


siege, but the Government very much feels it has the upper hand and part


of the confidence comes from the chemical weapons deal which means it


averted a US military style strike and it has powerful friends


including Iran and Russia which are arming Assad and standing by him.


Thank you very much. From the outside it seems that most


of the world is lined up against President Assad, the regime makes


capital out of the fact. Yet we have evidence that foreign forces are in


Syria fighting alongside president Assad's men. Yalda Hakim reports. A


year ago the rebels in Syria seemed to have the upper hand.


But something has changed. Syrian Government forces are being


bolstered by Iran. If there is one country that is interfering in


Syria, it is Iran. When this secret footage shot by an Iranian fell into


rebel hands, the truth about the ayatollah's secret war in Syria was


revealed for the first time. A Government air base near Damascus in


Syria. S boarding the helicopter flight is this man, a 30-year-old


film-maker from Iran. It is his second trip to Syria and he is on a


sensitive assignment. He is making a film on behalf of Iran's elite


Revolutionary Guards. In September a group of Syrian rebels contacted the


international media saying they captured a video camera after a


battle. They said it contained footage which proved their long


stated allegation that Iranian forces were on the ground in Syria


and supporting the Assad regime. Raeds The captured footage came from


a camera. It starts in some proregime military facility in


Aleppo. The signs in Arabic warn people not to take any photographs


on their mobile phones. But such restrictions do not seem to apply to


the cameraman. The soldiers are Iranians. As are the troops and the


cleric in the prayer hall and this is a communications room. A very


sensitive location. The radio operator is Iranian too. He tries to


engage him in conversation, but the man seems uncomfortable being


filmed. This is the first time all the material shot by Iranian


film-maker has been pieced together. It is likely that it was never


intended for public broadcast, but was some internal Iranian


Revolutionary Guards project because when you watch the footage, it


becomes obvious that despite their repeated denials, Iran is secretly


playing a critical role in helping turn the tide of the war back in


favour of the Assad regime. It is not surprising to me in Syria Iran


has given training both to the regular Syrian armed forces and to


paramilitary groups and the paramilitary groups may out last the


Assad regime. It is one way that Iran keeps its options open even if


Assad falls, Iran will have a force that's committed to it.


Back on the ground in Syria. The man sitting on the right-hand side is


the main character in the film. Relaxed and humorous, he


nevertheless has a very ideological view of the Syrian conflict and


Iran's role in it. The footage shows the Iranians


training and organisationing a new grouping known as the national


defence force. The national defence force is a network of pro-Assad


militias. They are loyalists all of whom fear the consequences of a


Sunni Muslim rebel victory. But it seems the NDF are not just being


trained on the ground in Syria itself.


But the Revolutionary Guards aren't just providing training. According


to sources, their role is a very hands on one.


The sun rises over Aleppo. But this will not be a peaceful day.


Reporting are coming in that a force of rebel fighters is moving in on a


nearby regime stronghold known as the poultry farm near a pla called


Talazan. The unit gets reinforcements from


the local NDF that Englishia they are training.


There is no considerate driving style now. This is a military


emergency. The two truck loads of fighters head to the poultry farm


base as fast as they can. There are about 40 fighters gathered in this


base including at least one other squad of Iranian military advisors.


All these men know an attack is coming. The squad is led out of the


poultry farm base on a mission to secure the reasoned flank of the --


right-hand flank of the battlefield. At first glance, this Iranian led


group looks well equipped for a fight. Then there is movement on the


horizon. What the Iranians can't see is there are more than three rebels.


What you are seeing now is footage filmed by the rebel's own cameraman


as their fighters advance towards the combat zone. They outnumber the


squad and have heavier weapons including a tank. The Iranians are


heading into an ambush. With bullets supplies slicing


through the corn field and mortar rounds, the group is pinned down.


The others try to retreat. But it is too late. These are the last images


filmed. Two days later, Revolutionary Guards


commander is buried with military honours in Iran. It is final


confirmation of his important role in the Revolutionary Guards.


And this is one of the members from the Syrian war. He never made it


home to his wife, or three-year-old daughter. Even after all this, the


Revolutionary Guards continue to deny their activities in Syria.


The story shines a light on to Iran's covert war in Syria, but the


Iranians are not the only foreigners interfering in the Syrian conflict.


With weapons and fighters now pouring in on both sides, there is a


very real danger that this crisis will spin further out of control.


You can see a full half an hour version of that report on Our World


on the BBC News Channel on Saturday and Sunday evening at 9.30pm.


He was the elusive figure rarely photographed behind David Cameron's


canny media strategy. She was the flame haired executive to exchanged


text message with her friend and neighbour, Cameron. That was how the


Associated Press ne agency explained two of the people in the dock at the


Old Bailey today. Eight people are on trial on charges arising out of


the phone hacking affair. Steve Hewlett has dainty feet. How big a


deal is this case? It is bill. Eight defendants after a two year police


inquiry. Charging relating to phone hacking, corrupt payments to public


officials and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice which relates


to allegations that boxes of documents were removed from News


International. Not all eight are charged with all of them, but all


eight are denying the it charges against them, but by way of scale,


the prosecution opening is due to start tomorrow afternoon and last


for two days. It is reckoned the prosecution case in total could last


until Christmas. And the case overall is scheduled to last until


next Easter. Until Easter? It is big. Yes,


Easter. Some big institutions involved? Yes, when you look at it.


This is the first time the public will get to hear in detail what it


is alleged occurred and there is big players and big institutions with


skin in this game. You might say. So you have got the press. You are busy


fighting the post Leveson settlement, the atmospherics that


are going to come out of it and you have got the Metropolitan Police


looking on anxiously. This is a case that they declined to investigate


until forced to it. You have got the political class, David Cameron, made


the big speech after the Milly Dowler revelations which led to the


News of the World being closed who said, "We the political class had


turned a blind eye." And there is Rupert Murdoch and his company


turned inside out by the whole thing. Costs of half a billion,


suggestion from one senior executive secretly recorded sometime ago, that


it could be ?1 billion. There is this trial to Easter. There are


other trials going on reckoned to be the end of 2015 and then brewing


nastily in the undergrowth is and the fact that News International,


News Corporation have been told they are suspects in an ongoing inquiry


into a corporate criminal liability. Corporate criminal liability?


Corporate criminal liability which will have the FBI sniffing around


it, but means that if the company were to be found guilty of that,


they become criminally liable. For Rupert Murdoch, it really couldn't


be much worse and the stakes here really are very high, indeed. I


should say all eight of the defendants on trial now deny the


charges. One of the most enigmatic and


influential figures in pop music is dead. Most of us would probably


recognise Lou Reed's Perfect Day, but you certainly couldn't measure


his significance in sales. Lou Reed said he didn't give a damn about his


legacy except he used a much stronger word than "damn". Much of


his music was almost unlistenable to. But for all that he could


genuinely have the word "legendary" attached to his name. Stephen Smith


has five things you didn't know about Lou Reed. Because we are


saluting Lou Reed on Newsnight, we have decided to break with tradition


and feature a man being grumpy on camera! Is that a good opportunity?


What do you mean authenticity from whom? It is funny having someone


from TV asking that question. It is like the lowest medium there is.


The velvet Underground in one of their first appearances. We haven't


got to the end of the effect they had on rock'n'roll. It is like that


famous early Sex Pistols gig in Manchester. Everyone supposedly


there went into the music business, but without Lou Reed there may not


have been any Sex Pistols. # Plucked her eyebrows on the way


# Shaved her leg # She said take a walk on the wild


side # I said honey, take a walk on the


wild side. # Reed sang about he being a she, that


was from life. Reed said his parents made him have electric shock


treatment as a boy to cure homosexual urges. You are a man of a


few words, why is this? I have little to say. Do you like press


interviews in general? No. Lou Reed put the pop into pop art


and it was the art he was really interested in. He was a friend and


associate of Andy Warhol. Lou Reed saw himself as a writer. It is a


little known fact that Lou Reed toppled communism, not on his own.


# Just a perfect day # Drink sangria in the park." When


Prague was behind the Iron Curtain, underground albums inspired


reformers not least their leader and their movement was dubbed the Velvet


Revolution. #


just a perfect day. # # Feed animals in the zoo #


On tour, in fancy hotels, Lou Reed would find himself sleeping on the


floor because of a bad back as he used to do through lack of funds


when he was just starting out. Ill health became a problem. Four months


ago, he had a liver transplant claiming, "I am a triumph of modern


medicine." It was aironic. -- ironic. I don't like journalists. I


despise them. Why? They are disgusting. With the


exception of you! With the exception of tu! -- of you! Mainly the


English, the pigs. It might have gratified Lou Reed to


see how those journalists toiled to praise him today.


The singer Rufus Wainwright was a friend of Lou Reed. He joins us from


Seattle. When did you first meet him, please?


Well, I actually met Lou before I made my first album. I was a waiter


at a restaurant in New York City, the Lion's Head and he was my first


ever customer! And I was very afraid and he ordered French toast with no


butter. What was he like as a human being?


As a friend? Yes. Of course, there is a lot of talk about his, you


know, grumpy nature and his critical outlook and slightly, you know,


negative ambiance, but really behind that, he was such a kind and gentle


and soleful man. -- soulful man. Part of the reason he might have


been so pug nacious, it was a defence mechanism. Like a great


chocolate or something, he was hard on the outside and very, very soft


on the inside. So he was a lovely guy.


Is it possible to be precise about what his contribution to music was?


Well, I think, I mean, you can never, he invented cool in terms of


the music industry and when I say cool, I mean real cool. I am not


talking Elvis cool or Marvin Gaye cool, I am talking about completely


cutting edge. Completely, I don't know, just the coolest kid in the


class and so I think, you know, much like someone like other people from


that era, he just, he cre critted a benchmark -- created a benchmark.


But this was not just a question of style, was it? I mean he had


encountered cultural terms, I guess, a political stick about him, didn't


he? Yes. He seemed to - he was not - he didn't believe in full hit.


Whether it was a political party or, you know, or a social movement or


art or anything, he just told it as he saw it and it was always


opinioniated and very, very refreshing, but, you know,


disturbing as well if you were on the other side of that, you know,


pointed argument. What was he like to work with? He


was hell to work with! Utter hell. At the end of the day, we would get


it done. We did a few shows together. We did Christmas shows


together. I had to sing Blue Christmas with Lou. He with had to


do one song and the last time we did this and it took three hours to get


what he wanted! Why? Oh, I don't know. He enjoyed torturing, you


know, the musicians and doing it over again and then, of course, when


we got up to do it on stage, it was completely different. I don't think


he wanted anything set and the minute people started to get their


heads around something, that was when it was time to throw the wrench


in it! Which is great. Do you have a favourite song of his?


Well, I mean, I was listening a lot to Pale Blue Eyes recently and also


there was a song that I loved. I can never remember the title, but the


one that starts, "Because if you close the door." Can you sing us a


phrase or two? I will sing you a little bit of it, sorry!


I am going to take from the bridge down to the end.


# Shiny cadillac cars # People on subways looking grey


# Other people look well in the dark # If you close the door


# The night could last forever # Leave the sunshine out and say


hello to never # All the people who dance and they


are having so much fun # I wish it could happen to me


# Because if you close the door, I would never have to see the day


again # I would never have to see the day


again # One more time


# I would never have to see the day again #


Thank you very much indeed. Good night. Thank you.


Thank you. Farewell then, Jude.


Trains were halted for a bit at least. One should not take too light


of it because there were several tragic fatalities, but St Jude


didn't cause the mayhem we were warned about. Perhaps the reason


that we got off lightly compared to the great storm of 1987 was because


we were well warned. Zoe Conway reports.


Storm Jude arrived as predicted. It hit the south-west of England at


around midnight. Hurricane Force winds moved north-east wards. It


caused death and injury and cut power to hundreds of thousands of


homes. But because of advances in science and technology, this storm


didn't take us by surprise. It is 3am here in Exmouth, but this storm


has only got going. It is an unusual weather event when storms cross the


Atlantic, they burn themselves out, but this one kept on going. Falling


trees proved deadly. The bodies of a man and a woman were pulled from the


wreckage of their home. It exploded when a tree fell on to the gas


mains. A 17-year-old woman was crushed to death when a tree crashed


on had to her caravan. A bus was also toppled injuring the driver and


several passengers. At this Devon county council incident room, they


watched Storm Jude's every move. We have had a report of a tree falling.


It is a large tree. Hundreds of cameras monitored the


roads and the rivers. Twitter provided rumours and facts about the


damage the storm was causing and there were meteorological maps.


Tracking the storm as comes in and the intensity as well. We will keep


an eye on it. We have guys on the ground who are also eyes and ears.


Travellers out there would be seeing trees falling. Maybe some isolated


flooding. They will be passing that on. When they get that information


in here, we contact our local agents and they can send teams tout to deal


with it. We might have to close roads.


Six days ago, storm Jude didn't exist. Yet here at the Met Office in


Exeter, they knew it was coming and accurately predicted its path. This


is where the storm started. As it came towards the UK it really began


to develop strongly and brought some strong gusts of wind across the


southern half of the UK especially where we have this hook of cloud and


now it is tracking in towards the North Sea and going towards the low


countries and northern Germany where we will see strong winds, if not


stronger winds than we have seen across the southern UK this morning.


The science and technology has been transformed since the Great Storm of


1987 which the weathermen failed to warn us about. Behind me is the Met


Office's super computer. It is like a giant calculator. It takes the raw


weather data out there like temperature, air pressure and


humidity. Gravity, the laws of motion and it does its sums at a


rate of 100 trillion calculations per second.


It is so much better than it was those years ago. It enables us to


have a detailed picture of weather over the world at any particular


time. Then the scale of super computing which allows us to analyse


the satellite da data. So in 30 years, in any technology, you would


expect a lot of change. 30 years in meteorology has been a world of


difference. Because of the accuracy of the


forecasting, emergency workers in Devon were ready. The highway has


been proactive this evening. They have come out and they are clearing


away which is great. They were out within five minutes of us calling


them. They have been really good clearing the drains and any of the


issues that we have had. But this was still a deadly weather


event. Science might be able to predict the weather. The authorities


might feel they can organise and manage it, but we can't control it.


Before we go, we return to our main story, the financial settlement


reached between Haringey Council and Sharon Shoesmith, the head of


children's services sacked after the Baby Peter case. The payout we


understand involves six figures. We have learned the figure reflects the


total payment and Ms Shoesmith may receive a lower sum.


The Sun has news that Jimmy Savile's driver, who was due to appear in


court has been found dead. The Daily Mail, mother's agony, a report of


one of the unfortunate fatalities caused by the storm.


And the Daily Mirror goes with some of the unfortunate stories of what


happened as a consequence of the storm.


That's it. Emily is here tomorrow. What may turn out to be the last


poem written by the great Irish poet, Seamus Heaney who died in


August has been published. It is called In A Field. It pictures


a soldier returning from the war. The actor Gabriel Byrne read it for


us. And there I was in the middle of a


field. The furrows once called "scores"


still with their gloss. The tractor with its hoisted plough


just gone. Snarling at an unexpected speed out


on the road. Last of the jobs.


The windings had been ploughed, furrows turned. Three ply or four


round each of the four sides of the breathing land to mark it off and


out. Within that boundary now step the


fleshy earth and follow the long healed footprints of one who


arrived. From nowhere, unfamiliar and de-mobbed. In buttoned khaki and


buffed army boots. Bruising the turned-up acres of our


back field to stumble from the windings magic ring and take me by a


hand to lead me back. Through the same old gate into the


yard where everyone has suddenly appeared all standing


Newsnight reveals an exclusive story. Plus Iran's secret war in Syria, storm St Jude and Rufus Wainright on Lou Reed. With Jeremy Paxman.