Browse content similar to 31/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The lead QC in the phone hacking trial reveals that Rebekah Brooks | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
and Andy Coulson had a long affair while both at the News of the World. | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
Did that mean they told each other everything? The man in charge of | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
artist liaison at Spotify says musicians should have nothing to | :00:24. | :00:26. | |
fear from the music streaming service. I would encourage all | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
artists to weigh it up, make the best decision for their band. | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
Ultimately there is almost no case for an artist not putting their | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
music on Spotify. Moby will be joining us for his ideas for making | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
money out of music. The rabid right, was David Cameron wrong to shun the | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
grassroots and euro-sceptics. One influential Tory thinks so. Europe, | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
welfare, immigration, on all the big issues of the last decade, the right | :00:53. | :01:02. | |
has been right. And in Chile, how the Pinochet dictatorship still | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
lives in the memory of those involved in the up coming pecks | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
elections. TRANSLATION: There was a particular torture they used against | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
women like me who refused to talk. It involves violent sexual abuse. I | :01:16. | :01:23. | |
was pregnant at the time and I lost my | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
Good evening, Anthony and Cleopatra, JFK and Marylin, John and Edwina, | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
today in the phone hacking trial the court heard the revelation that | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
Rebekah Brooks and Andy Coulson had Anne fair until since 2004, and may | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
have lasted six years. Of course Andrew Edis QC said he was making no | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
moral judgment or intruding into their privacy. But the fact of the | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
affair meant that what Rebekah Brooks knew, Andy Coulson knew, and | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
visa versa. That is what he wanted to put in the Mobitz of the jurors. | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
This report contains flash photography. | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
"The fact is you are my very best friend, I tell you everything, I | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
confide in you, I seek your advice, I love you, care about you, worry | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
about you, we laugh and cry together." The intimate details of | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
an fair between two hugely high-profile public figures that had | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
remained secret for years. A tale in fact that could have graced the | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
front page of any edition of the News of the World. When the jury in | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
court 12 of the Old Bailey heard those words today, they were being | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
told a story that never made it into print. The revelation that this | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
trial's two highest-profile defendant, Brooks Brookes and Andy | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
Coulson had been illicit lovers for years. A fact that prosecutor Andrew | :02:49. | :02:50. | |
Edis QC made much of. He raised it in connection with the | :02:51. | :03:22. | |
hacking of Milly Dowler's voicemail. That the News of the World hacked | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
Milly Dowler's phone is not disputed. The question before the | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
jury is who knew? Rebekah Brooks was on holiday in Dubai, leaving Coulson | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
in charge, when the News of the World published a story that came | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
straight from Milly's voicemail, quoting verbatim a message that had | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
been left on it. The jury were told there was a string of calls and | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
messages between Brooks in Dubai and the editor's desk in London in the | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
lead up to publication. Such was the intimacy of her relationship with | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
Coulson, Edis said, Brooks simply must have known what was going on. | :03:57. | :04:11. | |
And it wasn't just Coulson, Brooks, reporter Neville Thurlbeck, news | :04:12. | :04:18. | |
editor Greg Miskiw and Glenn Mulcaire who allegedly knew about | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
the hacking of Milly Dowler's voicemail. The paper's managing | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
editor, Stuart Kuttner, also a defendant in the case, even told | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
Surrey Police that the newspaper had Milly Dowler's voicemails. All of | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
which was evidence of how senior figures at the News of the World | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
were taking a very keen interest in the Milly Dowler story. Edis summed | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
it up thus. These are very senior journalists on the News of the World | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
who are pursuing this story and devoting time to it. We say in all | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
the circumstances it is simply incredible that the editors did not | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
know what was going on that week. Earlier it had been payments to | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
private investigator, Glenn Mulcaire, amounting to more than | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
?100,000 a year, and who now admits phone hacking, that Mr Edis focussed | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
on the jury were told that Brooks, Coulson and Cutler kept a tight rein | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
on spending at the News of the World, and personally signing off | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
amounts as low as ?1,000. It was inconceivable that they didn't know | :05:24. | :05:26. | |
the paper was paying Mullany so much money. Cutler had signed -- Kuttner | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
had signed off payments to Glenn Mulcaire of over ?400,000, or that | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
they didn't know what they were paying them for, which boiled down, | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
to phone hacking. What | :05:45. | :05:52. | |
Shh Edis also sought to persuade the jury Assenor he had -- as Senior | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
editors they all routinely asked what he called "the editor's | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
question", in other words, how do I know the story is true. The answer | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
to which at the News of the World was all too often, phone hacking. On | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
all three points, managing the money, overseeing the paper's | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
journalism, and the very close relationship between Coulson and | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
Brooks, Edis argued that it was inconceivable that they didn't know | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
about and embrace the cripple flail practice of phone -- criminal | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
practice of phone hacking. If yesterday's proceedings lacked | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
drama, today's certainly didn't. Having had the details of their | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
secret affair laid bare before the jury, Coulson and Brooks, sitting | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
next to each other in the dock, then had to listen to prosecutor Edis | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
running through how they had exposed others, namely fire brigades' union | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
leader, Andy Gilchrist, and former Home Secretary, David Blunkett, for | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
illicit affairs of their own, apparently on the basis of illegally | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
hacked voice mails. There was a tangible sense in court and outside | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
afterwards, of two Titans of tabloid journalism enduring some of what | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
they often dished out to others. All the accused deny the charges. Coming | :07:08. | :07:17. | |
up. At the end of the day Spotify helps record companies, big record | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
companies and it helps investors. Emerging artists don't get a look | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
in. Now just when you thought it was safe to go back into the City of | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
London, several banks have become embroilled in an international probe | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
into possible manipulation of the currency trading forex business. The | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
justice investigators are investigating whether nine traders | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
included with partners and other banks to rig rates. News of | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
suspensions among bank staff tonight. We have been looking at it. | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
What has been going on? The global foreign exchange market is really | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
very big business. There are some staggeringly large numbers involved. | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
Let's take a look at one of them. That is this one. $5. 3 trillion | :08:06. | :08:13. | |
daily is trade around the world in dollars and all sorts of other | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
currencies. Of that more than 40% is traded in London. That is the | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
biggest centre for Foreign exchange. A really important story around this | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
emerging over the last couple of weeks. Each day there is an | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
important procedure, a rate setting, so that rates are set for benchmark, | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
for pension funds and contracts and all that sort of thing. For example | :08:34. | :08:43. | |
today one pound was set at $1. 60. That happens at 6.00pm in London. | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
There is a 60 second window, and all the trades over that 60 seconds are | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
compiled by an organisation called WM Reuters, it is the WM Reuters | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
Fix. The investigations are around whether that setting could have in | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
some way been manipulated. You are saying 40% of the business is | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
conducted through London. Any names emerging? There are major banks, | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
which have confirmed that actually they have been approached by | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
regulators, or they have conducted their own investigations, you can | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
see some of the names, including RBS and Barclays, as well as Deutsche | :09:18. | :09:25. | |
Bank. And also Citigroup. Names have named, row Hann Ranjandani and | :09:26. | :09:33. | |
others from JP Morgan on a sub-committee on foreign exchange | :09:34. | :09:35. | |
dealing, they have been sent on leave by their employers, there is | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
no suggestion at all they were involved in any wrongdoing, and also | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
Matt Gardener. RBS has suspended two traders. If it turns out to be a | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
major scandal, could it be as big as LIBOR? At the moment nobody is | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
actually suggesting that any wrongdoing is taking place. It is a | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
preliminary investigation. But I think it has the potential to be | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
very significant indeed. Various e-mails and instant messaging data | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
being looked at by regulators suggests there may have been | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
activity up to August this year. That will shock other people if | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
anything untoward has been proved. I'm joined by the research director | :10:15. | :10:24. | |
at the on-line trading company forex.com. Are you surprised? Since | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
2008 the regulatory landscape has changed so much, it has gone from | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
the mortgage business to LIBOR, because the foreign exchange | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
business is so huge it was in line for scrutiny. The make name for the | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
foreign exchange business is the "wild west" because it isn't | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
regulated like the others? It can sometimes get a bad press for that. | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
But I think you have seen it with individual companies that might be | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
on an exchange. Or maybe considered to be more highly regulated than the | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
FX market and still things happen to them. Yes it is unregulated but that | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
doesn't mean it is always working on its own. But if there have been | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
problems with it, is it likely to emerge through big trades, small | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
trade, I mean this minute window that Hugh was talking about, is it | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
major currencies or lesser currencies? It is probably likely to | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
be the major currencies, and in a second, in a matter of a few | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
seconds, when you have a $5. 3 market you can push a lot of trades | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
through in that time. It will be small increments that any changes | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
were made if they can be detected. They are hard to detect I would | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
imagine. The source suggests though that it is the smaller currencies | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
not the bigger currencies? Sure. So it is the smaller currencies, in | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
this case, if there is any wrongdoing, not that we think at the | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
moment there is? They are the less liquid ones as well. Is it the case | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
even if there is a major problem, coming on top of all the FREEF | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
problems that the City of London is too big to fail? It is absolutely | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
true, it is 40% of the whole market. We have a good reputation, but these | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
continual regulatory probes they are chipping away at that. It was only a | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
few months ago we signed up with China to trade for RNB and make | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
London a trading hub. The problem is if George Osborne has signed up with | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
the Chinese, then it is embarrassing so soon afterwards to announce an | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
investigation? It is incredibly em-Bartsing, it is good that it is | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
the FAC A and the UK has taken a lead on it, if we are staying the | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
centre of the FX world we have to make sure we are managing and | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
policing it well and being fair to both sides of the trade. Thank you | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
very much indeed. The last desperate fart of a dying corpse, Thom Yorke | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
on what some are talking up as the saviour of the record industry. The | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
Radiohead front man might not be keen on Spotify, with six million | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
paying customer, it can't match the might of the YouTube and iTunes, it | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
is big in business. Whether it is a malign or benign influence is hotly | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
debated. We have been asking what artists really get out of it. Is | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
this the White Knight of the music industry? A way for people to gorge | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
on as many tracks as they want, while giving record labels and | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
artists a steady stream of income. Spotify lets users listen to music | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
over the Internet for free. A paid subscription gives you mobile access | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
and the ability to download individual tracks. The site is now | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
passing millions of pounds to record labels each year. For many this and | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
similar firms like Deezer and Napster are the future for an | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
industry that once looked like it might topple over. Some people in | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
the music industry, passionately believe that Spotify is eating into | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
piracy, it is bringing more money into the industry and boosting | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
artists' career. Other people believe that Spotify is drawing | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
customers who spend a lot on buying music to a new model in which they | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
are actually spending less. Cannibalising the existing healthy | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
business model. Whichever of those is true will ultimately decide the | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
music industry's fate in the future. The latest financial figures show | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
how the site is growing. The firm's sales doubled last year to ?370 | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
million. It now has 24 million users in 32 different countries. The | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
Spotify model is now being talked up as a key factor in the industry's | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
fightback, in countries like Norway and Sweden, where the company was | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
founded. Revenues there are now rising strongly, after a decade of | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
slumping CD sales and soaring piracy. Spotify's top brass | :14:54. | :15:01. | |
certainly talk the talk. At an industry event run by Virgin, | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
Newsnight caught up with their unfeesably fashionable executive, | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
keen to talk up his new business model. I think in new ideas at | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
Spotify is a meritocracy, meaning we have a pool of revenue, we are | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
paying back almost 70% to artists. If you have 1% of all the streams on | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
Spotify, you will see 1% of the revenue paid back to rights holders. | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
That is the exciting part for me. This pot will grow and grow and grow | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
and your revenues increasing daily. If you look at traditional models it | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
wasn't a pro-rat at that system, that is a new and exciting idea for | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
me. So for such an industry success | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
story, why does Spotify seem to be turning into a lightning rod for | :15:48. | :15:58. | |
some very upset artistso a lightning rod for some very upset artists. | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
Thom Yorke has pulled most of his solo material off Spotify in | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
response to the rates they pay out. He called them the last fart of a | :16:07. | :16:15. | |
dying corpse, and the reason for the relaxes of relationships between | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
music labels and artists. You are seeing the music industry responding | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
to technology and habits by new listeners. While his heart is in the | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
right place, I would sit down with him and explain to him why his facts | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
may be misinformed. Hasn't he got a point that because, to a certain | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
extent, some of your shareholders, the major label, had you to do deals | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
with the major labels that you are not forward looking but an | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
electronic form of the industry as it exists 15, 20 years ago? I | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
disagree, Radiohead had issues with iTunes when it came out, they had | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
issues about breaking up the CD, there will always be qualms about | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
change. Bands like the Beatle, AC/DC and Led Zeplin have long refused to | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
put their music on streaming sites. And others, like last night's | :17:05. | :17:12. | |
mercury nominees, Faols, are now speaking out. Irrespective of | :17:13. | :17:14. | |
whether it brings people to your music or as a spin off you sell more | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
ticket, the business model itself means you have music you have worked | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
your heart out for you are paid what I deem to be an immoral amount. And | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
that's it, that's just for me it is an inarguable fact the royalty rate | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
musicians receive from Spotify is just not fair. Spotify pays artists, | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
not directly, but through their music label or management company, | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
that means different musicians can receive completely different | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
amounts. Each time a user plays a track. Patterns are an up and coming | :17:49. | :18:03. | |
Manchester band with just four songs so far available on Spotify. The | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
lead singer said the site can be good for exposure, but once you try | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
to earn proper money it becomes more difficult. We use streaming services | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
like Sound Cloud and things like Band Camp, we think it is really | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
important people listen to our music. What is different with | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
Spotify is now you have these premium accounts where not only can | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
people stream your music but take it away with them. What's the point for | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
them to buy us on iTunes or any kind of MP 3. Here we have a spread sheet | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
that shows all the streams to date that Patterns have received via | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
Spotify. Crunching the numbers, the boss of the band's label say after | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
two years and 150,000 plays on Spotify the four members have paid | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
?65 each. That is after the label itself takes its ?50% share. For an | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
indie label like us that equates to 00. 2p per stream on Spotify. The | :18:59. | :19:07. | |
artist is getting 00. 1p per stream, that is not much at all. If you are | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
an artist without a large audience and fan base, it is hard to do well | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
on any service, whether iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, in my opinion it | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
is pretty straight forward. You engage with your label, you are in a | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
business relationship with your label. You are making a decision | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
based upon an element of trust. You engage your label and get as much | :19:27. | :19:28. | |
information as possible, you make sure you understand your situation, | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
and you receive the payments that are deserved. | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
After 14 years of upheaval and falling sales, it looks like the | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
music industry is back on its feet. Spotify and services like it will | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
probably continue to grow. They might, though, make more enemies | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
along the way. Joining us now from Los Angeles is the mu six Moby who | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
has told -- musician Moby who has sold 20 million albums worldwide. | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
How are you, good evening. When you heard Faols talking last night at | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
Mercury saying artists receive an immoral amount and the royalty rate | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
is so poor, by and large, do you think he has a point? I think what | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
the journalist was also talking about is it is hard to generalise, a | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
lot of it has do with the artist relationship with the record | :20:21. | :20:22. | |
company. Some artists are making more money from Spotify than others. | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
It is hard to come up with a comprehensive generalised amoral or | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
moral statement about the royalties people are receiving. The more | :20:32. | :20:33. | |
powerful the band and the better deal they do with their record | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
company, obviously, the better their rate will be when it comes to | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
Spotify. You have gone a different road now, because your new album, | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
The Innocence, you are issuing a download and streaming, is that the | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
way of the future? Well, my, I don't know maybe I'm a simplen to, but my | :20:52. | :20:59. | |
-- simpleton, my thoughts are musicians' main job is making music | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
they love and other people love. You have to figure out how to pay the | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
rent and be fiscally responsible, but the goal should really be | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
focussing on the music. One of the things I love about the digital | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
present we live in, with institutions like Spotify, or Sound | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
Cloud or YouTube, it is almost like this democratic anarchy, it is very | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
chaotic, you put music into the world and you have no idea how | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
people will experience it or listen to it. I actually find that really | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
compelling. I accept that argument, and funnily enough Lou Reed always | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
said it didn't matter about the business it was the music. You can | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
speak of the advantage of somebody who has sold 20 million albums world | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
wild, the young band from Manchester said the people who win out are the | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
label, if the artists are cutting deals where they might get 7% not | :21:52. | :22:03. | |
70%ho win out are the label, if the artists are cutting deals where they | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
might get 7% not 70%. The state of technology six months from now, a | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
year from now, five years from now might make Spotify look very | :22:10. | :22:11. | |
antiquated. Having too strong an opinion about streaming services | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
like Spotify, you look it is kind of like having a strong opinion about | :22:16. | :22:23. | |
Napster which barely exists now. I really feel like when I see people | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
criticising the digital present we live. It kind of reminds me at old | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
guys yelling at trains going too fast. There is nothing you can do | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
about it. You talk about Napster which was a flash in the pan, do you | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
think Spotify is only on the way to somewhere else, that this is a very | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
shallow stepping stone? It is almost impossible to say. So many of us are | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
accustomed to owning music. But yet there is answer tire new generation | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
of people where it - an entire new generation of people who never owned | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
music. It is a weird overlap between the two. People complaining about | :23:00. | :23:01. | |
Spotify they are not complaining about the same music being played on | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
the radio. Yet that same music is coming out of the same speakers, I | :23:07. | :23:18. | |
don't the radio, I don't understand how people want different | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
compensations for music coming out of different places. They are | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
creating their own sense of music by whatever they are streaming and | :23:27. | :23:28. | |
downloading, does that essentially mean the idea of a curated series | :23:29. | :23:36. | |
and pieces of music like an album is essentially going to be an old man | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
and old woman's tool? I'm speaking as an old man. I know! There is some | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
bias. But I think that there is room for things to coexist. You can have, | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
I look at the world of book publishing, and some things just | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
show up on a digital e-read e you read it and throw away and don't | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
think about it. If you really love a book maybe you want the hard cover | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
version. A coffee table version of it. With music there might be some | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
disposable pop songs you stream a few times and never think about, | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
when your favourite band puts out a new album you might want to buy a | :24:13. | :24:25. | |
version of it. What do you want to be, the five-time played popstar -- | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
what do you want to be, the five-time played popstar or the | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
long-term artist? That is up to each artist, some people want the | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
disposable popstar and other people want to make albums people will come | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
back to 50 years hence. You put it out there that almost whoever is | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
listening to it can curate changes and listen in their own way, is that | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
a future? I did a thing with an organisation called BitTorn, we took | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
individual tracks from my album, the drum, the vocals and bass and | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
released them as multitracks where everyone can download it for free, | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
remix it and do what they want with it. I love that democratic chaos. | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
The fact that you put this music out into the world, once it leaves my | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
hands I don't own it and I can't control it. I personally maybe there | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
is something wrong with me, I love the lack of control I have over | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
music once I put it out into the world. Great luxury. Thank you very | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
much indeed Moby. Pleasure, thank you. | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
Is there a quiet reproachment taking place on the political right. After | :25:35. | :25:37. | |
the election David Cameron and George Osborne put clear water, an | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
ocean even between the Tory leadership and much of the party's | :25:42. | :25:43. | |
grassroots, and certainly the euro-sceptics. But was that distance | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
to do with policies or the perceived extreme attitudes of those who | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
expressed them. Swivel-eyed oon, the one who called for British jobs for | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
British workers, a cap on immigration and no, no never to the | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
euro. Are they the ones having the last laugh. Our reporter thinks so. | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
Doesn't he feel faintly embarrassed that in five short years he has gone | :26:11. | :26:20. | |
from "hug a husky" to "gas a badger "(voice of Ed Miliband) The only | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
embarrassing thing is this tortured performance. (Voice of David | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
Cameron. It is hard to get attention, we all lead busy lives, | :26:29. | :26:35. | |
even I a political anorack has stopped watching Prime Minister's | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
question times. Occasionally some interesting things happens, like | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
last week. We need to roll back some of the green regulations and charges | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
putting up bills. The man who promised the greenest Government | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
ever, doesn't sound so green any more. The man who said he would stop | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
banging on about Europe has had to bang on a bit about Europe. On | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
immigration, welfare and tax, David Cameron has steadily moved to the | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
right. Or has he? Some in the parliamentary Conservative Party | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
don't see things in such simple terms. I don't really see it quite | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
as right and left. What I think is really important is that we as a | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
party don't know those distinctions but actually make a very common | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
cause which is being on people's side. Works on the side of families | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
and just being there for them. Changing our language, making sure | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
that we are seen to be on the side of the consumer, not vested | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
interest. I think we need an optimistic message, I think we need | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
to be up for things that are out there in both globally and | :27:36. | :27:42. | |
nationally. The right gets a bad press, grassroots Tory members were | :27:43. | :27:50. | |
rag worms called "swivel-eyed loons", who are the sanest people in | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
politics. Is it the people who supported the euro, or those on the | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
right who always said it would cause the economic problems it has? What | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
about the people who welcomed mass immigration into this country, or | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
was it the right who calls said that immigration of the kind we saw would | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
cause wages to fall and house prices to rise? Some people on the right of | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
the Conservative Party are certainly feeling vindicated by the way events | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
have moved on. I think it is fairly extraordinary on so many of the | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
macro issues on, for example, the question of Europe, whether Britain | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
should be part of the euro or whether we should have a referendum, | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
on the way of immigration, on the question of welfare reform, | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
positions that were once dismissed as beyond the pale, as the preserve | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
of free market right-wingers like me, are increasingly mainstream. | :28:44. | :28:50. | |
They are increasingly accepted as being sensible, normal and essential | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
reform. The traditional right isn't perfect, | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
it needs to learn from the people around David Cameron, the Cameroons, | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
about the importance of public services and changing social | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
attitudes. The Conservative Party has to become a broad centre right | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
church again. Stretching from the centre to the traditional right. The | :29:10. | :29:19. | |
party has to speak to Sun, Daily Mail and Times readers. It is what | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
Margaret Thatcher did with her appeal to the housewives of the | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
1970s. Can we have two pounds of the smaller ones. | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
It is what John Major did in 1992 with his message of opportunity for | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
all. Steak pie boiled. He offered red meat to voters in the form of a | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
tax cut, but he also represented upwards mobility and classlessness. | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
Party that didn't just listen to liberals' boom but also heard the | :29:49. | :29:55. | |
roar of Middle England. My guests are with me now. You set | :29:56. | :30:03. | |
out your case there, but never the Twain shall actually meet. David | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
Cameron, it is the social attitudes that he perceives as much as he | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
finds so difficult to deal with? That is absolutely true. But a lot | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
of people I think when they are losing arguments start decribing | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
people in negative pejorative terms. The writer described the | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
"swivel-eyed loons" and nutcases and so on. I wanted to say in the film | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
that the right have a problem because they can be caricatured in | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
that way, but the impact of the welfare state on the poor or | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
immigration on houses prices or Europe, the right has been | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
vindicated and must be part of the Conservative coalition. Why do you | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
think that David Cameron and the modernisers were so unwilling to | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
listen in the early day, when of course they had not won an election | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
but gone into a coalition. Why were they so unwilling to listen? We had | :31:00. | :31:02. | |
reached a stage in this country where a lot of people were | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
culturally inoculated towards ever voting Conservatives. People thought | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
there was a nasty mean-spirited element of the party that simply | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
wasn't reconciled with cultural demographic changes that had | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
happened in Britain. There are two important things going on here. | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
First of all I'm interested in the fact that Tim says the right has | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
been vindicated about all the good things that happened. In the film | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
and what you just said he didn't mention the single biggest thing | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
that happened in the British economy in a generation which is the | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
financial crisis. Just as many people on the left would say the | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
left is vindicated, and Marxists would say this was a crisis in | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
capitalism and what did the right say about that. If you go into that | :31:47. | :31:49. | |
you have the situation where the left, Labour were never going to | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
take us into the euro, were in favour of welfare reform, all these | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
things. But the point surely is that David Cameron in a sense is as much | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
as one end of the spectrum as he would say originally the right was | :32:03. | :32:05. | |
at the other end of the spectrum. Who so moves? It will be David | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
Cameron who moves? A dot of the problem, and you're exactly right to | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
say that the Conservative Party had a big problems. David Cameron | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
diagnosed it incorrectly from the beginning. He thought the | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
Conservative Party was too right-wing, that was the bigger | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
Yorks on all the issues we were discussing those issues are popular. | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
The problem with the Conservative Party, and that is why John Major | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
was so successful, they are not seen as the side of the people who are | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
poor, on the side of the people affected by the financial crisis the | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
low paid. It is that concern for the blue collar vote, that is when the | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
Conservative Party dominates the poll. The problem that the | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
Conservatives have had isn't, the reason they didn't win majority in | :32:53. | :32:55. | |
2010 isn't because people thought David Cameron was secretly in love | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
with the European Union or the Conservatives had a real affection | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
for mass immigration. The situation you have got now isn't that people | :33:03. | :33:04. | |
think David Cameron believes something that they don't believe, | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
it is they don't think he believes in anything at all. That is | :33:08. | :33:10. | |
something people in the Conservative Party also believe? The Conservative | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
Party hasn't convinced that we understand how tough life for people | :33:17. | :33:19. | |
is. They like our positions on Europe, crime and immigration, but | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
who will look after us in tough times. That is the question they are | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
worried about. Is it not the case to say many grassroots Tories don't | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
care about same-sex marriage or women bishops in the Church of | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
England, and annoyed about the delay in the married tax allowance. They | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
see David Cameron as being of a completely different ilk and that | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
they can't relate to, and he in a sense can't relate to them. I think | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
the traditional right has stuff to learn from David Cameron on those | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
issues. In 2050 Michael Howard says the way t party is going, we have | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
tested this and we don't have the right model. It seems what you are | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
saying is they don't have the right model to win majority. They still | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
don't have the right model. The election to learn from is 1992, when | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
John Major combined a pretty traditional Conservative recipe on | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
tax cuts. Remember the tax bombshell campaign, a very Tory message. But | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
people looked at him and thought that is the upwardly mobile | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
classless Conservative Party I want to support. They don't see that at | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
the moment. It is the combination of those da things that will transform | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
the Conservative Party. In 1992 you didn't have UKIP. There is an | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
important point here. You had the Referendum Party. The important | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
point in your film you made the point that the Conservative Party | :34:38. | :34:39. | |
has to reach out to people voting for UKIP, but there is an enormous | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
danger that people will see that as the Conservative Party reaching out | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
to UKIP itself. If there are Lib Dem strategists or Millennium Dome | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
around Ed Miliband watching this -- or people around Ed Miliband | :34:54. | :34:55. | |
watching this they will be praying for this. The right themselves are | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
very divided? They are, and now David Cameron's biggest problem. | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
Margaret Thatcher won elections in the 1980s because the right was | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
united and the left divide. If it stays disunited will he win another | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
election? It would be very hard, he must unite the right to win the next | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
election. He's doing good things in that direction. It is finding issues | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
that will appeal to the UKIP voter and the Lib Dem vote e which | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
includes cost of living and other issues that aren't just the typical | :35:28. | :35:35. | |
predictable issues. Chel le's presidential elections this year | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
comes exactly 40 years after the military coup that brought General | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
Pinochet to power. And the military dictatorship ruled for 17 years. As | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
much as Chile wants to move on and forget the horrors of this that era. | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
The shadows are present and amongst the presidential candidates | :35:54. | :36:03. | |
themselves. The campaign is well under way, with two clear front | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
runners emerging in the polls. Former President Michelle Bachelet | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
of the Socialist Party, elected President eight years ago and served | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
for four. And her main right-wing rival, Evelyn Matthei. That there | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
are two women running for the top job in a Latin American country is | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
extraordinary enough. The tale of friendship, betrayal and death | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
behind the two of them, both daughters of general, brought up | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
together in the same military base, , however, even stranger. | :36:35. | :36:45. | |
But the story that links the two presidential candidates is a very | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
real part of the most turbulent episode of Chile's 20th century | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
history, that began here at the Presidential Palace 40 years ago. | :36:56. | :37:06. | |
On September 1 th General Pinochet ordered the bombing of the palace, | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
at the start of the coup that brought down the democratically | :37:10. | :37:20. | |
elected Government and socialist president Allende, who died in the | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
attack. Like most of the military, the then kern knell Fernando | :37:25. | :37:32. | |
Matadores, father of Evelyn, supported General Pinochet. Before | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
the coup the family were friends and neighbours of the Bachelet, but | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
General Alberto Bachelet, here with his family, the young Michelle at | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
the front, remained loyal to Allende. The era of terror began. | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
Thousands of supporters of the legitimate Government were rounded | :37:54. | :38:02. | |
up, imprisoned, tortured and killed. They are all now honoured at the | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
Museum of Memory in Santiagon. I met with a fellow prisoner with Alberto | :38:10. | :38:16. | |
Bachelet when he died of a heart attack in 1974. TRANSLATION: Finding | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
himself striped of his medals and tortured and abused by his | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
subordinates was a terrible psychological torture in itself. | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
More painful than any physical abuse he suffered. They carried on, even | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
though they knew he had already suffered two heart attacks. General | :38:36. | :38:43. | |
Bachelet died of that torture? TRANSLATION: Absolutely. The for | :38:44. | :38:51. | |
theure took place at this academy. Evelyn's father was put in charge | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
here a month before Alberto Bacholet died. Today General Fernando Matti | :38:58. | :39:05. | |
lives behind the gates here. He turned down the request for an | :39:06. | :39:08. | |
interview and has denied any involvement in the for theure -- | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
torture and death of his friend, either by act or omission. | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
TRANSLATION: The accusation against him is not for being the direct | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
perpetrator of the murder of General Bacholet, but he was obliged under | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
law to stop or report what was happening. This man is a legal | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
adviser in the Allende Government, and has failed to get the General to | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
court. He says the country's laws of immunity make it hard and this is a | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
particular difficult case. TRANSLATION: If you take into the | :39:47. | :39:53. | |
account that until there are two presidential candidates, the | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
daughter of the General and the daughter of the victim, there is a | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
whole political dynamic involved, which explains why judges refuse to | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
enforce the law and indict. It is unfair, arbitary, but in Chile we | :40:05. | :40:17. | |
are used to this kind of thing. Santiagon is littered with grim | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
reminders of the past. This woman is the director of another former | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
torture centre. Where, in the garden every rose represents a woman | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
killed. She barely survived the torture, which involved beatings, | :40:33. | :40:43. | |
electric shocks and more. TRANSLATION: There was a particular | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
torture they used against women, like me, who refused to talk, which | :40:48. | :40:54. | |
involved McVie lent sexual abuse -- violent sexual abuse, I was pregnant | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
at the time and I lost my baby. They said the country did not need | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
another baby of a Marxist. The buildings of the time have been | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
destroyed, but they have built a model of the cell where she was held | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
blindfolded for weeks at a time, with four others. Michelle Bachelet, | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
then in her 20s was also held in one of these cells and tortured for her | :41:19. | :41:26. | |
left-wing beliefs. Which brings us to another mystery in this story. | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
The reluck tense of so many in Chile, including Michelle Bachelet | :41:32. | :41:34. | |
herself to talk about what happened in the Pinochet years. Is it an | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
advantage to your campaign that your main rival's father is being | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
implicated in the death of yours? I have been speaking about this for | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
some time, I think it is, I think it is the, I mean we believe that every | :41:50. | :41:58. | |
candidate has their own history, my history is completely different from | :41:59. | :42:06. | |
her history. And I hope that our citizens will make the best decision | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
in terms of who is the person who can interpret better the Chilean | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
needs. Would Evelyn Matthei say any more? | :42:16. | :42:23. | |
(Speaks in Spanish) I asked her about the events of 40 years ago and | :42:24. | :42:31. | |
in particular the case of General Bacholet and her father. | :42:32. | :42:33. | |
TRANSLATION: I'm not going to answer questions on this topic, obviously | :42:34. | :42:43. | |
angry. For the past 30 years widows like | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
Gabriella have performed in public the solitary version of a national | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
dance that is normally for a couple. To draw attention to Chile's over | :42:54. | :43:03. | |
1,000 disappeared. TRON My partner was a political secretary in the | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
Communist Party. They grabbed him off the street and held him in the | :43:08. | :43:16. | |
prison. I thought they might arrest him, but I never thought they could | :43:17. | :43:37. | |
make him disappear. Never. There is a monument for those who | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
were killed but who have no grave, and grieving relatives are angry | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
that there are members of the military around today who know where | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
the bodies are. Some people have been in denial for | :43:52. | :43:57. | |
40 years. The drama of this story of this nightmare is that many of them | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
are still alive, and do have the information that they are not | :44:03. | :44:10. | |
willing to give away and to speak. Michelle Bachelet is almost certain | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
to win this election. Will she do something. TRANSLATION: I think she | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
should, afterall she's part of this, she had family who died. Let's hope | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
she does. The call for accountability comes | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
not only from those who were alive at the time, but as I discovered, | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
talking to a group of student, from the young as well. TRANSLATION: This | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
year's elections are strongly connected with the events of the | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
past. Matthei could be seen as the face of the military Government, | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
where as Batchelet can be seen as the representative of Allende, it | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
opens all the old wounds of supporters. | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
Pinochet's office is now a museum, the general himself was arrested in | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
London, but never brought to trial in Chile to face charges of torture | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
and murder. Other senior military figures are in jail, but many more | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
have not been tried for crimes even with Pinochet's own spokesman | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
admits. TRANSLATION: The internal conflicts of a country are usually | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
tremenduously cruel. And we try to avoid excesses all all times. But we | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
had to fight the extremist movement, and in this kind of fight, you | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
always make mistakes and commit atrocities and excesses. The odds | :45:42. | :45:50. | |
are on Michelle Bachelet returning here as President, this time there | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
will be a lot more pressure on her to tackle the Pinochet legacy. | :45:55. | :46:01. | |
That's just about all for this Hallowe'en night. Be careful out | :46:02. | :46:10. | |
there, good night. (Michael Jackson's thriller) | :46:11. | :46:20. | |
# The foulest stench is in the air # The funk of 40,000 years | :46:21. | :46:30. | |
# And grizzly ghouls from every tomb # Are closing in to seal your doom | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
# And though you fight # To stay alive | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
# Your body starts to shiver # For no mere mortal can resist | :46:43. | :46:55. | |
# The evil of the Thriller (scary laughter) | :46:56. | :47:03. | |
Further bouts of wet and windy weather will sweep across all areas | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
over the next few day, the rain on Friday will eratically head its way | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
north and eastwards across England and Wales. Where as for a good part | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
of Scotland and Northern Ireland, the winds will be lighter than today | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
and spells of sunshine. Maybe just one or two scattered showers, | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
frequent showers in western Scotland where the wind will remain strong. | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
For eastern and southern Scotland dry and bright with sunshine. Good | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
to start off with sunshine over north-east England, the rain will | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
trickle in here come the afternoon. It will be dull and damp for most of | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
the day across the Midlands. Dryer spells across East Anglia and the | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
south-east, here the rain could get quite heavy on Friday evening. And | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
the wind will start to strengthen also along the south coast. It will | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
be overcast with outbreaks of rain, for most of the day across | :47:51. | :47:53. | |
south-west England and also a fairly wet day for Wales. As I said that | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
rain could get heavy across the south-east on Friday evening before | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
clearing away. Which will allow another batch of wet weather to | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
sweep across areas on Saturday. It will also be accompanied by strong | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
and gusty winds. Sunshine developing later on Saturday, but only once we | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
have got rid of the heavy downpour, which will sweep in it looks like | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
from the Atlantic, a dry start on the east the rain will soon come and | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
accompanied by the wind, getting stronger and | :48:24. | :48:24. |