30/10/2013 Newsnight


30/10/2013

News stories with Jeremy Paxman. Including the phone hacking trial, whether teachers at free schools should be qualified, and the surfer who rode possibly the world's biggest wave.


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Transcript


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This programme contains flash photography from the start. It was

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inconceivable that the Prime Minister's friends at the News of

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the World didn't know that their staff were hacking people's phones,

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said a prosecutor today. On day three of the trial of Rebekah

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Brooks, Coulson and others, it is also revealed that four people have

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already pleaded guilty. She can make chemistry fun, so does this teacher

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really need a piece of paper from a teacher training college? Labour's

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new shadow Education Secretary thinks she does. Why? James Blake

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has just won the Mercury Music Prize, Steve Smith will be catching

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his atoppings. Imagine being this surfer, we will talk to the man from

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Devon who may just have ridden the world's biggest wave.

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There was phone hacking, who knew? Was the way the prosecution put it

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to jurors at the Old Bailey, resolving that question is the task

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of the court trying eight men and women, including two former editors

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of the News of the World. One pal of the Prime Minister, the other his

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one-time official spokesman. It is the most eager low- watched case in

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Britain, with potentionally very strong implication for some very

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powerful people. This report contains flash

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photograp. The News of the World is a Sunday newspaper, it wasn't War

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and Peace, it was not an enormous document TFSHGS the size of

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something that, if you were editor, you could taken a interest in what

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was going into it. It was with those words that Andrew Edis QC

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prosecuting left the jury at the end of this day 1 of this toysoric

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child. In a nod to the charges facing the eight defendants, he

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earlier told the jury although it was the phone hacking trial, it

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wasn't just the phone hacking trial. On conspiracy to commit misconduct

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in office which constitutes four of the eight counts he

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On conspiracy to pervert the course of justic There are two counts,

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which he described as: Hiding stuff so the police couldn't

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get it. He went into some detail, accusing

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Rebekah Brooks and her PA of removing notebooks from the News of

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the World archive. And her husband Charley and others of moving

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material from their various homes, in order to stop the police from

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finding it. It was said Andrew Edis, quite a complex little operation,

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discovered by accident. Something he said he thought the jury would find

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quite memorable. But today did focus on phone hacking, and the key point

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Andrew Edis put to the jury, is even though an individual may not

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themselves have hacked phones, they could still be guilty of a prime if

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they had conspired to see it done, or knew about it and did nothing to

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stop it. The two people he had in mind when he said that were this

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case's most high-profile defendants. Brooks and Andy Coulson. The

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question is, is the case of each of those who didn't do it themselves,

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were they part of the conspiracy? But today's main revelation came in

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the form of the guilty plays, previously entered by three former

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News of the World journalists. Neville Thurlbeck, and James

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Weatherup a have all pleaded guilty to phone hacking, has private

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investigator Glenn Mulcaire, in his case of the murdered teenager Milly

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Dowler's mobile phone messages. The prosecution said they can prove the

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guilt of Ian Edmondson. There were references to Jude Law, Paul

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McCartney, John Prescott, and even David Blunkett. In truth this was

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not a day of dramatic revelation, rather the prosecution laying out as

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carefully as it could a case which in time is sure to prove hugely

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detailed. It was in his final flourish that Andrew Edis was at his

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most succinct. He told the jury: What you have to decide is

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ultimately how much did the management know about what was going

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on at their newspaper. How much did they know about what was being

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published and where it came from. How much did they know about why it

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was right to publish a particular story, why they knew it was true. It

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was their responsibility as editors, under their contract, to take

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reasonable steps to make sure that what goes in the paper is true,

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otherwise they get sued. The case continues tomorrow, when we will get

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to hear most of the rest of the prosecution's opening statement.

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Their case proper which follows is reckoned by some to be quite likely

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to last until Christmas. They all deny the charges of course.

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Steve is with us with news on the future of press regulation. This was

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the last ditch attempt by the newspaper, the last judicial

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attempt? It is quite a big day. The press attempted to get an injunction

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to prevent the cross-party royal charter from being sealed today.

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That failed this morning. Or by lunchtime. Unexpectedly those judges

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also ruled that the press was not entitled to bring a judicial review

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claim about the Privy Council decision to dismiss their own

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proposed charter and then towards the end of the day the Privy Council

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sealed the cross-party charter. We are now headed for what I think

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might politely be described as impasse.

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Meaning? Meaning that the charter doesn't sipped a regulator, it only

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sets up a recognition body. A recognition body I dare say at some

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point will be established, meanwhile the press are setting up their own

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self-regulator, IPSO, Independent Press Standards Organisation. Which

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will come in January and will continue to function and steadfastly

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and deliberately not seek recognition from the charter

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recognition body. Which will produce pressure on politicians to act. The

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Leveson system which puts in place a backstop to prevent the press from

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backsliding, doesn't exist without a recognition body to which the press

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submit themselves. Currently they are not willing to submit

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themselves? No they are not. None of the national press, as far as I can

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see are willing to submit themselves to, that they are not firmly in with

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IPSO yet. My impression talking to various people is attitudes are

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hardening. There is a Mail editorial, and you would say they

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would say this, it says a judicial farce and a dark day for freedom.

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Foreigners to Britain were offered a fascinating insight into the called

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modern democracy. The judicial farce which many will be left thinking is

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an establishment stitch-up has deep implications for free press and

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democracy. You would think they would say that wouldn't you. I spoke

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to the editor of a reputable newspaper who said there is a huge

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philosophical difference. They say sign up or else, nobody will. They

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are clearly on what might be described as a collision course.

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This may take many, many months, if not years, actually to come to a

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head. Coming up... # This is the darkness of the dawn

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# And friends are gone You need more qualifications to flip burgers in

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Britain than you do to teach children here. With what relish, if

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you will forgive a bad pun, the newbie shadow Education Secretary,

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Tristram Hunt, denounced Government's stance on letting

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unqualified adults loose in the platform. The Government hit back

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and said he was not to be listened to. The question of who is allowed

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into our children's classrooms is much, much bigger.

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It is the drama that has everyone talking. Only this one is being

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played out not on your TV. But from the classroom to the Commons. The

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surprising truth, Mr Speaker, is under this Government you need more

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qualifications to get a job in a burger bar than you do to teach in

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an English school. If the Labour policy is enacted, that will mean

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there are people currently teaching in the state sector, academies and

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free schools, who will lose their jobs. This is Antia Zarska.

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Six weeks into her new job at this state-funded free school in East

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London, now on its half-term break. If you have a passion for a subject,

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if you are always constantly improving and engaging yourself not

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just your students in the subject, I feel the students will enter that

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dialogue with you and they will ocate what you are giving them as

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well. Last year Michael Goof relaxed the rules, letting state schools do

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what the private sector has done for years and take on teachers like

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this. Antia has a science PhD and taught in California, but no formal

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teaching qualification. Antia, our chemistry teacher, when we did the

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advert for the post we didn't just look at unqualified teachers but

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everybody who applied to it. There is no-one out there. But the reason

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we chose who we chose is because they are best-fitted to the post.

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That is it, there is no huge theoretical thing behind it. It is

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the best person for the job. For Nick Clegg this is becoming an

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election issue, not hiding his opposition to official Government

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policy. We should have qualified teachers in all of our schools. That

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means free schools and academies too. If you say I have a seating

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plan here and I will tell you where to sit, they are immediately like I

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won't like what she has done. A few miles away in central London, that

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next generation of state school teachers, here they are learning the

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traditional way. A year's formal training in subjects like lesson

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plans and classroom control. We are just trying to get vocational

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training and theoretical training, you wouldn't ask the same question

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to lawyer or doctor. I find it the opposite of sensible that you would

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ask the question do teachers need to learn how to think. The problem is

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Mr Gove has an incorrect assumption that all we do is sit around in a

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classroom. We are all in school placements, we are spending real

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time in school. I think it is much more a combination of the two.

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This is the kind of basic standard, the Labour Party would like to see

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mandatory again across all state cools. -- schools. I don't think any

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headteacher should take on any teachers without qualified teacher

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status. All children deserve well trained teachers. You will need to

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go and get changed, you can't be here in a T-shirt. At one of the

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country's top private schools. You have lost your trouser, go and

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borrow some, or jape us at period three, you can't be in a tracksuit.

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A third of the staff here, like this politics teacher, were recruited

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straight from university or the private sector without a teaching

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certificate. That's the most important thing said in this lesson

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so fa If someone asked you to do a formal teaching qualification for a

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year, would it have put you off the profession? At that point it would

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have done. I had funding to do my fast masters, I wanted do it, I

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don't think on the back of that I would have wanted to spend another

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year at university. I don't think. Here though fees cost ?20,000 a

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year. Teaching at an inner City comprehensive might need different

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skills and talents. It is even more important in the state sector than

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it is in the private sector. Because you need passionate teachers. If you

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have got a group of disaffected youngsters, it is even more

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important that the headteacher has the flexibility to appoint someone

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that they think is really passionate about their subject and can connect

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with chirp. What did Aristotle say? Of the Ices system would like money

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shifted from teacher training colleges to schools. So new staff

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can learn on the job, in the classroom. What worries me is that

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they are focussing on the wrong definition of "unqualified", 250% of

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maths -- 50% of math teachers don't have a maths degree, and 50 pest of

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physics teachers don't have a physics degree, they are unqualified

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for me. And the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats have no comment to

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make on that. For Labour this is a dangerous experiment, for the Tories

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a chance to show how committed they are to reform A volatile mix we are

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going to hear more of as we head towards the next election.

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Tristram Hunt, the shadow Education Secretary is here now. Ever been

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taught by an alified teacher? I don't know I have been taught by

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wonderful teachers, Mr Ellis who caught me lateral thinking, Mrs

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Newton my form teacher. None at your private secondary school were

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unqualified as far as you know? I don't think most people ask about

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the qualification capacity of their teachers. This is about public

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policy. It hasn't held you back? It is about making sure when it comes

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to the expenditure of tax-payers' money in the state school system

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that we have a minimum baseline qualification because the evidence

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surround the world, Jeremy, is where you have the best qualified teachers

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in Finland, Singapore, elsewhere, you have the best results. That

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doesn't seem to be an unreasonable aspiration. You are defining

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qualifications very narrowly? That is why the head of Brighton College

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was wrong. Why do most physics teachers not have a physics degree,

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is that acceptable? We want subject knowledge. That is absolutely vital.

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What we're saying is that subject knowledge is not enough. You can be

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a world expert in your field, but can you hold the attention of a year

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7? Can you actually deliver the learning outcomes, can you allow

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them to achieve the best for their GCSE. Being a teacher is not seism

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profession. -- A simple profession. Someone who has taught for 20 years,

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and they don't have this piece of paper? It is more than a piece of

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paper. If you looked at what was said there about how children learn

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and structure a class. These are important so children can achieve

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the best. Clearly they learn something on this course, but if

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someone has taught for 20 years, effectively, and doesn't have this

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cal cautious you would stop them -- qualification, you would stop them

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teaching would you? I think most teachers you talk to. Would you stop

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them teaching? There is always room for improvement, under a Labour

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Government we will move to a position where those teaching in the

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state sector will have qualified teacher status. A very engage young

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woman who teaches chemistry, great, no qualification by your book? We

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already have a system where if you have a teaching qualification from

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America or Australia or abroad, you can transfer that. She doesn't have

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a teaching Kimballcation? Under -- qualification. Under Labour we would

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move to qualified status. She has the subject knowledge but she needs

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to learn about managing classes. Have you got a teaching

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qualification? I couldn't teach GCSEs. You have taught at

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universities without a teaching qualification, is that correct? I

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have a PhD. Not a teaching qualification? Teaching in classes

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is a different matter, injure me. We are dealing with a child's

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development. These are complex areas. What we are saying in the

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Labour Government is we want the best teachers in English schools in

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the world. Let me return to the issue, the countries who do best,

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Finland, Singapore, they are not having an argument about

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deregulation and deskilling the teaching profession. They are having

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the most skilled teachers they can find. Why is this controversial.

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Thank you for reminding us of that. Tell us how many people in Barker

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Pond have teaching qualification and fail the course and don't make it?

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No I don't. The fact you don't know, it is something you oath ought to

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know. Secondly, since most people who started get the qualification,

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perhaps it suggests it is not as difficult to achieve as you may

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think? First of all you were saying it is a silly piece of paper. I

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didn't say silly. Where do we want to be as a nation. We have recently

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had some OECD figures about our levels on literacy and numeracy

:18:39.:18:41.

which shows we are in danger of slipping behind from where we need

:18:42.:18:44.

to be. How do you achieve results. You have the best possible teacher

:18:45.:18:49.

cohort possible. Would you send a child of yours to a school where

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there were unqualified teachers? This isn't about my children. It is

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about all of our children? This is about reducing risk. Would you or

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not? My children are educated and I'm proud they are educated in the

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state system, where there are qualified teachers. And there may be

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unqualified teachers at the schools they go to, and you don't care about

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that? This is why we have the policy for crying out loud. We want all

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teachers in the state education sector to have qualified teacher

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status, so they can run the classrooms to the best of their

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ability. Let me ask you the question again, I have obviously not been

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clear. Would you ever send your children to a school which employed

:19:31.:19:36.

unqualified teachers? I would send my children to schools with

:19:37.:19:44.

qualified teachers because the schools my kids go to are those with

:19:45.:19:48.

qualified teachers. Why are we having an argument about

:19:49.:19:51.

deregulating a profession when we know the best results are achieved

:19:52.:19:54.

from the most professional elements of it. Let me ask you the question

:19:55.:20:00.

again, yes or no, would you send your children to a school which

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employed unqualified teacherers? I will send my -- teachers. I will

:20:05.:20:08.

tend my children, and they go to school already and their teachers

:20:09.:20:12.

are brilliantly qualified. They have a long lifetime ahead of them? I

:20:13.:20:16.

want my children, as every parent warrants their children, to be

:20:17.:20:20.

taught by the best qualified, the most motivated teachers possible.

:20:21.:20:25.

And it is the case... I note you haven't answered the question to

:20:26.:20:28.

which you could have given a yes or no. In the Labour Party we want

:20:29.:20:33.

qualified teachers in the classroom. Most people watching the programme

:20:34.:20:38.

will want qualified teachers. You can't answer about sending your own

:20:39.:20:42.

children to a school with unqualified National Union of

:20:43.:20:46.

Teachersers? My kids, I will give you the answer, go to their local

:20:47.:20:50.

school and they will always... Would you consider ever sending your

:20:51.:20:53.

children, I said I wouldn't ask it one more time I have do. Sending

:20:54.:20:59.

your children to a school that employs unqualified teachers? I

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would always want to send my children to the schools where the

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teachers are as qualified as possible. You haven't answered, it

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is yes or no? That is every parent watching the programme tonight wants

:21:10.:21:13.

their children to be taught by teachers who are qualified. To have

:21:14.:21:16.

the wonder of learning. You want them to be talked by good teachers,

:21:17.:21:23.

which may not be the same thing? Our case is if you don't have this

:21:24.:21:30.

structure you end up with the unqualified teachers we saw at the

:21:31.:21:34.

school in Derby. If the state won't protect those children what will the

:21:35.:21:38.

Secretary of State be doing. Are you worried about standards in the

:21:39.:21:42.

independent sector? I'm more wore cleat about achieving results in

:21:43.:21:50.

Wolverhampton and Stoke-on-Trent. The independent sector employs lots

:21:51.:21:54.

of unqualified teachers, but you are not worried about them. As a

:21:55.:21:59.

Secretary of State for the Labour Government I'm concerned about

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taxpayer money being spent correctly. With the free school in

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Bradford we are seeing the misallocation of funds and

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unqualified teachers. We want great standards in great state schools.

:22:11.:22:13.

Thank you very much, thank you. Now the highest court in Britain

:22:14.:22:17.

decided today that a hospital had been right to withhold treatment

:22:18.:22:22.

from a very sick man, despite the wishes of his family. This important

:22:23.:22:26.

judgment in the complicated area which many of us may visit, where

:22:27.:22:31.

ethic, humanity and institutions and families collide is expected to cast

:22:32.:22:35.

a long shadow. The dying man's family had wanted doctors to

:22:36.:22:40.

continue treatment. The Supreme Court decided they were within their

:22:41.:22:43.

rights to press for that. Lower courts had been entitled to rule in

:22:44.:22:47.

favour of the hospital too. Mr James, a grandfather and

:22:48.:22:51.

professional musician was admitted to impotencive care after

:22:52.:22:55.

contracting an infection in hospital. His condition deteriorated

:22:56.:23:00.

leaving him unable to speak or breathe unaided. The hospital asked

:23:01.:23:05.

the High Court for permission to withhold some treatments if his

:23:06.:23:09.

condition got any worse. The court refused, forcing them to continue

:23:10.:23:13.

treatment. The hospital then appealed, and as Mr James became

:23:14.:23:17.

increasingly ill they won the right to withhold treatment. Just ten days

:23:18.:23:24.

after that verdict Mr James died. Despite his death his family brought

:23:25.:23:28.

the case to the Supreme Court, hoping to have the verdict

:23:29.:23:32.

overruled. This afternoon, in a complex ruling, the Supreme Court

:23:33.:23:37.

decided that on the evidence available, both of the decisions of

:23:38.:23:41.

the lower courts were correct. We are joined now from our studio in

:23:42.:23:48.

Liverpool by David's widow, May James.

:23:49.:23:54.

Even after your husband showed no prospect of recovery, you continued

:23:55.:24:01.

this legal fight, why? Because he still was showing life, a life

:24:02.:24:09.

worthwhile living. You continued the legal fight after he died? Yes to

:24:10.:24:19.

the Supreme Court. In the Appeal Court there was a precedent set that

:24:20.:24:28.

doctors if they felt that treatment was futile, invasive treatment was

:24:29.:24:33.

futile, well they didn't really have to give it to the patient. Now that

:24:34.:24:41.

meant any hospital in the country which you know, I carried this on

:24:42.:24:48.

because I wanted to help other people with family, loved ones, that

:24:49.:24:53.

may end up in a position like my husband ended up. It was whore

:24:54.:24:59.

rendous, I just would not like anybody to go through what I went

:25:00.:25:05.

through. I went through it for the love of my husband. When he died I

:25:06.:25:11.

felt no, well it has to go on to help other people. That's why. It

:25:12.:25:19.

must take a real depth of conviction to reject doctors' advice doesn't

:25:20.:25:26.

it? When the doctors started saying about withdrawing treatment it was

:25:27.:25:33.

quite a few months down the line. It was round about July last year that

:25:34.:25:40.

they first said to me they said if he should have a cardiac arrest they

:25:41.:25:45.

didn't want to resusitate, would I agree. They said to me we don't

:25:46.:25:49.

expect him to have a cardiac arrest. So I said if you don't expect why

:25:50.:25:55.

are you asking me this? Just in case he does? So I said no well I can't

:25:56.:26:00.

agree with that. Because you can't tell me what is wrong with my

:26:01.:26:05.

husband. You can't diagnose what is wrong with my husband. Tell me that

:26:06.:26:11.

he has cancer? Tell me that he has TB and I then may go along with your

:26:12.:26:17.

wishes. But until you can diagnose what is wrong with him you should

:26:18.:26:24.

not be asking me this. What do you make of the Supreme Court judgment

:26:25.:26:28.

today which seems extremely complicated and seems to come down

:26:29.:26:32.

on both sides, both the hospital and you were right? Yes, yes. What they

:26:33.:26:41.

said was at the particular time. When we were at the court of

:26:42.:26:46.

rotection, judge Jackson would not grant the hospital what they wanted.

:26:47.:26:52.

But then by the time it got into the Appeal Court Dave had deteriorated

:26:53.:26:59.

again. At that particular time the Supreme Court said today that it was

:27:00.:27:05.

right, they felt that the Appeal Court was right in passing for the

:27:06.:27:14.

hospital. For the hospital not to give the treatment. But then well

:27:15.:27:22.

they didn't give the treatment and he died. What do you feel ought to

:27:23.:27:28.

be the guiding principle in cases like this? Like what was passed

:27:29.:27:34.

today. I mean what happened at the Appeal Court, because they granted,

:27:35.:27:40.

there was the, there was a precedent set, which went against what judge

:27:41.:27:47.

Jackson said, so therefore the law had changed. What I wanted was the

:27:48.:27:52.

law changing back. What has happened today is the hospital were told that

:27:53.:28:00.

they did the right thing. The Appeal Court was right at that particular

:28:01.:28:15.

time. I was told that the appeal judges erred, they did not follow

:28:16.:28:23.

the mental capacity rules right. That what was passed on that day, at

:28:24.:28:30.

t Appeal Court was not to carry on. They have more or less gone back to

:28:31.:28:34.

what it was. The laws were changed back, I wanted it t Doctors now have

:28:35.:28:46.

got to take a different approach towards patience and stop and think

:28:47.:28:50.

a bit more about the mental capacity act. Thank you very much for joining

:28:51.:28:57.

us. You feel unwell, you go to the doctor, she prescribes you a

:28:58.:29:01.

medicine. How do you know it works? You take her judgment. How does she

:29:02.:29:06.

know it works? She takes the judgment of the regulator and the

:29:07.:29:09.

regulator examples the evidence of the people who make the drugs who

:29:10.:29:13.

stand to make a lot of money if the drug is deemed safe and effective.

:29:14.:29:18.

If what if the struck company hadn't isclosed all its evidence, only that

:29:19.:29:29.

which was commercially useful. There is nothing new about clinical

:29:30.:29:32.

trials, in medicine we use the simple but vital experiments to find

:29:33.:29:37.

out which treatment works best. A few hundred patients are recruited,

:29:38.:29:44.

half get one treatment and the other half the other, and we measure how

:29:45.:29:48.

they are doing. There is a problem, I'm standing in the laboratories of

:29:49.:29:52.

the Royal Institution, an organisation that stands for the

:29:53.:29:54.

fusion of knowledge, that is the issue. We know after trials are

:29:55.:30:00.

conducted and completed the results are routinely being withheld from

:30:01.:30:04.

doctors, researchers and patients. The very people who need the vital

:30:05.:30:12.

information to Inform decisions made about them. Paper in the British

:30:13.:30:18.

Medical Journal follows up one of the largest information

:30:19.:30:49.

Many an industry have claimed this is all in the past, is this true?

:30:50.:30:57.

No, I feel the biased underreporting of clinical trials hasn't been fixed

:30:58.:31:01.

yet. I have been concerned about it for 25 years now. I first met a

:31:02.:31:06.

delegation from the association of the British pharmaceutical industry

:31:07.:31:11.

about 20 years ago, there were some very encouraging progressions soon

:31:12.:31:16.

after that, it all went pear-shaped a few years after that. We are back

:31:17.:31:20.

to a situation now where we have promises as we had in the 1990,

:31:21.:31:24.

which haven't been followed through. This delay carries a real human

:31:25.:31:29.

cost, because while industry, researchers and regulators have

:31:30.:31:32.

failed to fix this problem over the past few decades, information is

:31:33.:31:37.

going missing every year. It is common to be told today that trial

:31:38.:31:42.

results from even ten years ago are impossible to find. From dry

:31:43.:31:46.

document storage archives like these. It is not just about doctors

:31:47.:31:53.

being misled. I'm also really concerned about patients who take

:31:54.:31:57.

part in clinical trials. They are volunteering to take part in medical

:31:58.:32:01.

research, on the assumption of further knowledge. Those trials have

:32:02.:32:06.

been suppressed in effect those patients' trust has been abused.

:32:07.:32:10.

While many an industry and research are dragging their feet, some at

:32:11.:32:16.

least are beginning to take action. We can't change things across the

:32:17.:32:19.

board but we think it is the right thing to do with the company. We

:32:20.:32:23.

recognise the issue around transparency. We beef it is right to

:32:24.:32:27.

make this data available. It recognises what is needed in

:32:28.:32:33.

science. It also recognises the great contib Bruges for clinical

:32:34.:32:37.

trials -- contributions for clinical trials. We like to think this is a

:32:38.:32:41.

highly scientific affair with laboratories and test-tubes, that is

:32:42.:32:45.

true when it comes to making a real molecule. The real proof of which

:32:46.:32:49.

treatment works best comes from trials in the real world on real

:32:50.:32:55.

patients like you and me. When a water to half of all the clinical

:32:56.:32:59.

trials are withheld from doctors, researchers and patients. People

:33:00.:33:03.

like me are practising medicine with one arm tied behind our backs.

:33:04.:33:14.

My guest is with me, set up the old trials campaign. And the chief

:33:15.:33:17.

executive of the British pharmaceutical industry.

:33:18.:33:22.

-- the Association for The British pharmaceutical industry.

:33:23.:33:28.

Maybe some of our viewers are being prescribed drugs, and the testing

:33:29.:33:32.

results of those drugs haven't been published? It is possible but

:33:33.:33:37.

unlikely. The regulator sees all the data. The regulator will look at

:33:38.:33:43.

quality, safety and efficacy. It is not acceptable that it is possible

:33:44.:33:46.

that there are people taking drugs, the results of which we may not all

:33:47.:33:51.

know? The regulator will know that information. The debate is focussing

:33:52.:33:56.

on how to make that information more broadly available. That is what the

:33:57.:33:59.

campaign that Ben has been running has been about. You are happy that

:34:00.:34:04.

the regulator has the capacity to example all the say veilable data?

:34:05.:34:13.

They axe -- the available data? They take the available data and look at

:34:14.:34:19.

it. I think it is false reassurance, if we look at medicines spotted over

:34:20.:34:25.

the course of the years. Problems with Viox, and the diabetes drug,

:34:26.:34:32.

and Tamiflu. Th weren't spotted by regulator, not because they are

:34:33.:34:38.

stupid and poorly motivated. They are highly trained and educated.

:34:39.:34:43.

Like all problems in science we need to make as many people as possible

:34:44.:34:47.

looks at the evidence. We have to let them all see all of the

:34:48.:34:50.

evidence. Regulators have a low bar, they decide if a drug works or

:34:51.:34:54.

doesn't. Doctors and researchers have to make a decision about which

:34:55.:35:00.

is the best treatments. So the argument is don't just rely on the

:35:01.:35:07.

regulator but make it available to the scientific community for

:35:08.:35:15.

assessment ctive. What is wrong with making everything available to

:35:16.:35:19.

everybody? Absolutely nothing wrong. We support greater clarify. Why not

:35:20.:35:24.

doing it? Since 2005 the industry made a global commitment to release

:35:25.:35:28.

data. In the UK the governing body for the industry in the UK, amended

:35:29.:35:34.

its Code of Practise, backed by law and the MRRA, to release all details

:35:35.:35:41.

on criminal trials. The nature of the data will be disclosed and we

:35:42.:35:43.

will work with people to make sure it is what we need. It STICHLly

:35:44.:35:47.

isn't happening, we have been hearing these promises for 20 years.

:35:48.:35:52.

It is extraordinarily dangerous to allow a situation to persist where

:35:53.:35:55.

doctors, patience and researchers are mislead about the risks and

:35:56.:36:00.

benefits of treatments. We have set up a campaign supported by the great

:36:01.:36:06.

and good of medicine. GSK, one of the biggest drug companies in the

:36:07.:36:10.

world -- companies in the world have signed up. And companies have said

:36:11.:36:17.

we will not engage with campaigns like the old trials campaigns. We

:36:18.:36:21.

have 200 patient groups representing 30 million patients, you say won't

:36:22.:36:27.

even engage with our concerns. That is not completely true, we have

:36:28.:36:32.

engaged and will continue to do so. Our medical and research departments

:36:33.:36:37.

have meetings scheduled to discuss this very issue. We will and do

:36:38.:36:42.

engage. We are committed to greater transparency. We support a lot of

:36:43.:36:46.

the objectives that you are working on. Since 2005 we have had the

:36:47.:36:50.

global commitment. We have research coming out next week that has been

:36:51.:36:54.

peer reviewed and published that will show 90% of data is now

:36:55.:37:01.

publicly available the year after license. That is the second time you

:37:02.:37:07.

have used the terms "after license". There must be drugs that aren't

:37:08.:37:13.

licensed? We have scientists, patients, the healthcare system and

:37:14.:37:18.

advocates and people like beep have a legitimate claim to say if a trial

:37:19.:37:23.

doesn't produce a result or license that information is just as valid.

:37:24.:37:30.

It is. There is commercial self-interest, western drug

:37:31.:37:34.

companies have done a pretty good job in tackling many very serious

:37:35.:37:41.

human conditions. I'm no crazed campaigner, I have stood up to for

:37:42.:37:46.

medicine for many years. We can't say it is OK for drug companies to

:37:47.:37:53.

make money while withholding the benefits of anything else. There is

:37:54.:37:57.

no legislation to prevent them from do. That the pharmaceutical industry

:37:58.:38:00.

have been campaigning hard against us. In Europe the new legislation

:38:01.:38:04.

around clinical trials in Europe is being blocked by industry lobbyists

:38:05.:38:09.

who are trying to stop a clause being put in and results posted

:38:10.:38:14.

within a year. Clinical study notes were made available by the European

:38:15.:38:20.

group. They have some. That has stopped because two drug companies,

:38:21.:38:27.

have been able to get an interim ruling from the central court of the

:38:28.:38:35.

European Union, they have done that with the full support of the

:38:36.:38:40.

European pharmaceutical's association and members of API.

:38:41.:38:43.

These companies operated individually and will operate that

:38:44.:38:47.

way to protect interests. You were opposed to that? We need to look at

:38:48.:38:50.

what happened with the two companies. It was about commercial

:38:51.:38:54.

requests for information, not scientific quests for information. A

:38:55.:38:57.

lot of the information that comes into the regulator is competitive.

:38:58.:39:05.

We have been prevented from getting access to information. We are

:39:06.:39:11.

committed to greater transparency. Same thing for 20 years. Just before

:39:12.:39:15.

we got on air the electronic musician and singer songwriter,

:39:16.:39:20.

James Blake, was announced the winner of the Mercury Music Prize.

:39:21.:39:26.

Stef Smith has not seen a bow business party where he couldn't

:39:27.:39:33.

refuse a drink. Congratulations, you have seen off David Bowie and the

:39:34.:39:37.

Artic Monkeys, how does that feel? It is not the words I would use.

:39:38.:39:47.

Bested? Within pleased to share the stage with. Not Bowie, he was on

:39:48.:39:53.

stage in a video. He was there in spirit. Sadly not all of our

:39:54.:40:01.

Newsnight viewers will have downloaded Overgrown yet. What can

:40:02.:40:12.

they expect? Don't let this bauble sway you. Just I hope that it takes

:40:13.:40:16.

you to a place that is positive for you. I don't know? What is your

:40:17.:40:21.

record like, is it a howl of pain about England and the planet today

:40:22.:40:29.

or is it more ambient chillax, give us a flavour? That is progressive

:40:30.:40:35.

for Newsnight "chillax. That is very progressive,ing? Anything beyond

:40:36.:40:41.

skiffle is. What sort of things can we expect here? It is a singular

:40:42.:40:49.

thought that runs through the album. I think I'm a common denominator

:40:50.:40:53.

there, all the way through, it is my voice and my productions and I, for

:40:54.:40:57.

the most part did it all myself. There is a couple of featured

:40:58.:41:05.

things. I did it all in my room. How important is this for you. We keep

:41:06.:41:08.

hearing that the music industry is in trouble. This is your second

:41:09.:41:17.

album. Tell us about that? I don't think the music industry is in

:41:18.:41:21.

trouble. People have found a new way to consume music, it is still my

:41:22.:41:26.

responsibility to make good music. Regardless of how you consume T OK,

:41:27.:41:34.

will you consider coming on and playing some of it for us, maybe one

:41:35.:41:40.

of the catchier numbers? numbers? Ly very experimental for your

:41:41.:41:49.

chillaxing audience. We will clear 20 minutes. Thank you very much.

:41:50.:41:52.

That's the way to deal with Steve Smith, a man from North Devon is

:41:53.:41:56.

waiting to hear officially whether he has just surfed the world's

:41:57.:42:00.

biggest wave. It wasn't by chance, it wouldn't be if you wanted to live

:42:01.:42:05.

to tell the tale. Andrew Cotton was in Portugal with various other

:42:06.:42:11.

surfers waiting to see if the storm that hit Europe this week would blow

:42:12.:42:16.

him any good. Waves that were 80 feet high that would drive the rest

:42:17.:42:20.

of us out of the water drew them. He's in Lisbon now. What was it like

:42:21.:42:27.

riding an enormous wave like that? Well it was one of those sort of, I

:42:28.:42:32.

have been or training for this day you know since I can remember well

:42:33.:42:39.

really. It was a long, long bumpy drop, going really fast. But at the

:42:40.:42:45.

same time everything was sort of in slow motion really. Just

:42:46.:42:49.

concentrating of where I wanted to be on the wave. Obviously not

:42:50.:42:57.

falling off! And sort of completing the ride. How fast are you going

:42:58.:43:03.

when you are riding a wave like that? That is a good question. I

:43:04.:43:12.

don't actually know. For me that was the fastest I have been on a surf

:43:13.:43:16.

board. We use really short really heavy surf board, which isn't like

:43:17.:43:19.

the standard surf board that you would ride at home in Devon. But you

:43:20.:43:27.

know, at a guess 20 miles an hour, but that is throwing numbers out

:43:28.:43:31.

there really. Are you scared when you are riding a wave like that?

:43:32.:43:39.

Obviously yeah, fear definitely comes into. But the second, you have

:43:40.:43:45.

to put the fear Include File Not Found -- you have to put the fear in

:43:46.:43:53.

its place. You can't be scared, you have to be focussed on the job in

:43:54.:43:58.

hand. So I am scared, but not when I'm actually surfing, it is a before

:43:59.:44:02.

and after thing. And when I'm actually surfing I put the fear in

:44:03.:44:07.

its place. On one of your rides you fell off. Yeah. I had a fall. That

:44:08.:44:22.

is nothing new, you knew what was going to happen. I'm lucky to work

:44:23.:44:27.

with experienced water guys and we have a really good safety team in

:44:28.:44:30.

practice. It is not like we just go and surf at a local beach. It is a

:44:31.:44:37.

big team that surround us doing these sort of surfing of these

:44:38.:44:42.

waves. If you come off in a wave like that, it must be like falling

:44:43.:44:47.

into an enormous washing machine or something, do you know which way up

:44:48.:44:55.

you are. You could be down for ages couldn't you? Yeah, yeah, there is a

:44:56.:45:00.

massive impact. You get shaken and yeah, I suppose you don't know which

:45:01.:45:06.

way is up or down. On this particular wave I got taken really

:45:07.:45:11.

deep, my eardrums burst a little bit. It is years and years of

:45:12.:45:15.

training and sort of commitment to what I do. It is not like it is the

:45:16.:45:20.

first big wave I have ever surfed. I know how to deal with those

:45:21.:45:24.

situations you relax and go with the flow. And you come up. You are a

:45:25.:45:31.

plumber by trade aren't you? Yeah I am. What will it be like to

:45:32.:45:40.

returning to unblocking drains? I can't wait! Thank yous very much and

:45:41.:45:50.

many congratulations, cheers. That is that. If you have ever suffered

:45:51.:45:55.

one of those dreams in which you walk into a crowded office and

:45:56.:45:59.

discover your naked, what you are about to see may strike a chored, it

:46:00.:46:04.

is not new but bears watching again. The moment when the brilliant

:46:05.:46:14.

pianist sat down to play a Mozart piano concerto the orchestra was

:46:15.:46:25.

starting up on something completely different.

:46:26.:46:32.

She made a startling recovery. You do it so well. Make sure you do

:46:33.:46:35.

it.

:46:36.:46:52.

The phone hacking trial, whether teachers at free schools should be qualified, plus, the Mercury Music Prize winner and the surfer who rode possibly the world's biggest wave.


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