Browse content similar to 21/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Somewhere in Lambeth in south London, the details of what | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
detectives are calling an extraordinary case are slowly | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
starting to emerge. The specific remain vague, police say details are | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
being held back for operational reasons. What we do know is a couple | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
both in their late 60s were arrested at that house in south London | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
accused of keeping three women in a state of domestic slavery for | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
decades. The victims, now in a safe place are said to be traumatised. | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
The police are working out exactly what happened but say it is likely | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
to be a long drawn out process. At a press conference at Scotland Yard | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
the detective in charge of the case said the women all had controlled | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
lives and spent most of it indoors, but did have some limited freedom. | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
We have established that all three women were held in this situation | :03:00. | :03:07. | |
for at least 30 years. They did have some controlled freedom. The Human | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
Trafficking Unit of the Metropolitan Police deals with many cases of | :03:13. | :03:21. | |
servitude and forced Labour. We have dealt with cases where someone has | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
been held for ten years but never this long before. It was a number of | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
documentaries like this one on forced marriages that appeared to | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
trigger this news. One of the women in the house called the Freedom | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
Charity after seeing it. Police found her location and all three | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
women escaped. It has now emerged that a 69-year-old Malaysian woman, | :03:42. | :03:48. | |
a 57-year-old Irish woman and 30-year-old British woman were | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
rescued from the house a month ago. The 30-year-old has spent her whole | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
life in captivity. Officers are trying to establish whether she was | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
born in the house. All three women were highly traumatised and taken to | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
place of safety where they remain. They are in the care of a charity | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
who deal with people who are deeply traumatised. These are deeply | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
traumatised people and it is essential that we work sensitively | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
to establish the facts in this case. Detectives say although they are | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
aware of cases of people being held for up to ten years, they have never | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
seen a case quite like this before. The Metropolitan Police's Human | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
Trafficking Units receives reports of about 250 offences each year. | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
People working on the ground say the figure is rarely reported and the | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
real figure could be much higher. The Global Slavery Index estimated | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
between 4,200-4,600 slaves in the UK. Detectives at the National Crime | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
Agency think they encountered 2,225 potential victims of human traffics | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
in the UK. Exploitation for sex and work were most common amongst | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
traffiked People. Sex and petty crime for children. Campaigners say | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
human trafficking as a whole has been overlooked for too long in the | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
UK. The Government now plans to introduce a modern slavery bill next | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
year to tighten up the law. I can't go into details because I don't know | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
them, I can give you some clues, first of all I think slavery will be | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
made an offence with life imprisonment. Two is we are going to | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
have a commissioner, like an ombudsman who will be charged | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
directly to the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary to find out | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
what's wrong in this country and make a report every year to | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
parliament identifying what can be done to improve it. As far as I'm | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
concerned one of the most important things is going to be chasing | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
traffickers. Only 11 convictions for trafficking last year. 11, in this | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
country. OK there were other prosecutions but only specifically | :05:54. | :06:00. | |
for trafficking. The movement to abolish the slave trade in the 18th | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
century started here at this church in Lambeth. That was more than two | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
centuries ago, and feels like ancient history. Campaigners say | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
today's news is a shocking reminder that it isn't. We have the founder | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
of the Freedom Charity, which was first contacted by one of the women, | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
and helped negotiate their release. Frank Field is the chair of the | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
modern slavery review. Tell us how the women are? They are very | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
distressed about what's happened to them. But they are making steady | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
progress and I have spent a great deal of time with them now and I | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
think you know they are making as much progress as we can expect them | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
to. It has been very, very difficult for them. One of the women managed | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
to leave a message on your charity's 24-hour helpline? They spoke to one | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
of our professionals at the other end of the phone who realised the | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
seriousness of the call and immediately we started very | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
sensitive negotiations with the ladies about how we would manage to | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
get them out and manage their escape. What did she say in that | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
first call? The first call was actually saying that she had been | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
held against her will, and said it could, over 30 years she had been | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
held, and then it was a drip by drip kind of process of her revealing | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
information, and she just had one point of contact within the charity. | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
And it was pre-aranged when she would call and how it was done. It | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
was done very sensitively, I'm really fraud of Freedom Charity for | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
the work they have done over this. The woman was able to use a mobile | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
phone or landline? She was able to use a phone but in a secret way. The | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
people in the house didn't know she had that phone. You made | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
arrangements to contact them when the owners of the house were out? It | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
was done in a way so nobody would know they were on the phone. That | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
had to be done in that way, it was very secretive to ensure they | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
weren't putting any further danger on themselves at all. How alongside | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
the police did you help these women escape? Basically it was a process | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
of just over a week where there were lots of phone calls and they gained | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
the trust of the charity and by doing that they felt confident | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
enough to reveal enough information, and at this point we have contacted | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
the police they have got involved as well. They were on stand by, it was | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
a textbook rescue, they managed to walk out of the house. When the | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
owners were not there, clearly. When nobody was around they managed to | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
leave. You and the police were waiting for them? Yes, and we | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
managed to get them to place of safety where they are safe and | :08:35. | :08:36. | |
secure and they are getting everything they need right now. The | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
long-term worry is how this obviously has affected them and what | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
their futures will hold. They walked out with nothing? They have nothing | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
now and as a charity we are trying to support them the best we can. | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
What was that like when you first met them? It is incredibly humbling, | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
they threw their arms around me and thanked me for the work we have | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
done, and they met the person doing the initial negotiations with them. | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
It was a very, very emotional time. When we got the message that they | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
were outside the front door, the whole call centre erupted in cheers | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
and there were tears and everyone was incredibly emotional to know | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
that we had helped to rescue three ladies that had been held in such | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
horrific conditions. Can you tell us about those conditions, what had | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
they said been happening? They were held against their L the other | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
details, because obviously it is -- their will, the other details | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
obviously pending the trial, we have to be careful. In London you | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
wouldn't expect this to be going on, but it does happen. Let me bring you | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
in on that point, do you think this is part of the problem, we don't | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
really understand what slavery is in this country? No, we were talking | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
earlier about 200 years ago most people thought it was acceptable and | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
slaves were in shackles. And the great campaign was to change public | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
opinion that it wasn't acceptable. Now, apart from those who deal in | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
this evil trade the rest of the country I would think would be | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
appalled by thek cyst tense of this. What do you understand domestic | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
slavery to mean? It is not just domestic slavery, there will be | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
slavery in the sex trade, in labouring, in crime, in fraud and so | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
on, which is highly organised, let's hope this is not actually part of | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
one of those organised crime rings. Do you think this case emphasises | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
the need for further legislation? I think when you had a clip earlier on | :10:38. | :10:44. | |
from the police, they have made other statements saying what they | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
are looking for in the Bill so it will be used better, without the | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
uncertainties that there is at the moment. There is that angle but | :10:55. | :10:56. | |
there is another important angle. Although it was 30 years in | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
imprisonment this occurred in London. Where we have a dedicated | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
group of policemen who are to fight and counter modern day slavery. They | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
have spent quite a bit of time trying to build up contact and trust | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
amongst non-Government organisations. Like the Freedom | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
Charity which has been crucial. Now in other parts of the country there | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
is not that trust. So there is both the importance of changing the law | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
to make it more friendly to prosecution, and more friendly to | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
the victims of slavery, but there is also the job of how do we change | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
attitudes and policy that follows from that. One of the women who you | :11:40. | :11:48. | |
helped rescue is 30. Was she born in that house? She spent all her life | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
in captivity, basically. She was born there? We can't say if she was | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
born there. But she has spent her whole life there and known nothing | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
different. This is the first time she has had the freedom of movement | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
in being able to use a phone and experience some basic things in life | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
that all of us take for granted. Thank you both, sorry you wanted to | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
say something, quick final point? Key point is that we began our | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
evidence session its with victims of slavery and we will end with victims | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
of slavery, already they have made this very powerful case to have a | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
commission whose job is to raise public awareness. Of course there is | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
a need to change the law and change how policy operates, but there is | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
also a need for us to be more aware that amongst us, maybe not far from | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
us are people held in slavery. Thank you. Still to come, eventually. | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
Sometimes I press the button and I can see the lift coming but it goes | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
right past me, why does the lift hate me. It knows other people have | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
been waiting longer than you, what it is trying to do is minimise the | :12:56. | :13:02. | |
waiting for everyone. The Government promised that privatising parts of | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
the Probation Service would mean savings for tax-payers and new | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
innovative ways of managing offenders in the community, while at | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
the same time he pro-tectiing the public. A us -- pro-tectiing the -- | :13:15. | :13:21. | |
protecting the public. After a Newsnight investigation we have | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
found that it is fraught with problems. Last year Serco won a ?35 | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
million project in London to manage criminals doing community service or | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
payback. As we report, it is now seeming that the company can't | :13:34. | :13:45. | |
always open. It is a difficult balancing act, helping offenders | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
reintegrate while keeping the public safe. It is the role of the | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
Probation Service to maintain that balance. But controversial plans to | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
privatise parts of the service in England and Wales will threaten | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
that, say critics. The first major area of probation work to be handed | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
to the private sector has been in London, where we have discovered | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
serious failings. In October last year Serco took over the programme | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
for running community service across London in partnership with the | :14:17. | :14:25. | |
London Probation Trust. We spoke to people inside Serco and the Trust | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
and we have seen documentary evidence that raises concerns for | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
the safety of the public, the welfare of offenders and the | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
delivery of justice. The ?35 million contract Serco won means they now | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
have responsibility for community service projects on the ground. The | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
Probation Trust, which also tendered for the contract, still has | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
responsibility for offenders, assessing risk, monitoring progress | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
and imposing sanctions if offenders fail to comply with their sentence. | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
The day-to-day supervision of offenders rests with Serco, it is | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
this breaking up of the service that is causing concern. The Government | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
ran a competition for community payback in London. It admitted bids | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
from various organisations and ultimately Serco won with a | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
sub-contract with London Probation Trust, the main problem is it was | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
price competitive. Whoever bid and whatever the quality of the bids the | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
cheapest would always win. Serco and London Probation came in the | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
cheapest and now the cracks are starting to show. Newsnight has seen | :15:27. | :15:38. | |
a series of e-mails from the London Probation Trust's issue log, | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
offenders turning up to projects to find no superviser. Difficulty | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
getting through to Serco's control centre and attendance records wrong | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
and incomplete. Whistleblowers at Serco and the London Probation Trust | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
blame 40% staff cuts for pressures on the service. In our opinion there | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
are not enough projects or staff, the projects are oversubscribed and | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
anything oversubscribed causes problems. This was the Government's | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
blueprint for the future running of the Probation Service. They say the | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
way community service was run before Serco took over, didn't always | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
command public confidence. I will pay for success, I'm happy the | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
organisations working with me do well financially, but only if they | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
deliver results. The importance of keeping accurate records of | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
attendance is crucial to the smooth running of the Probation Service, if | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
an offender doesn't comply or fails in their community service officer, | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
the probation officer only as a short window to get them before a | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
judge. Without those documents the Probation Service can't help the | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
court enforce justice. In August the database where offender records were | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
stored and updated switched to a national database, during the | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
changeover records couldn't be updated for a week. Instead paper | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
records were kept, creating a backlog. We understand Serco | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
promised to have this dealt with by the end of August. It wasn't. There | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
was a backlog prior to that any way, obviously it did get worse, we did | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
have a week with no computer system, we in probation have been expected | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
to catch up with the missed work in that week. Serco just do not have | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
the staff to do it. We have received documents showing that between the | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
1st September and the 6th October, 1,362 records were not updated by | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
Serco. The Ministry of Justice estimate that is there are around | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
960 people starting community payback each month. It is not a drop | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
in the ocean. There was a change in IT systems and because of the bid | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
they put into the Ministry of Justice was so lean it doesn't | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
provide for any contingencies at all. If there is a change of IT or | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
you need extra resources they couldn't cope with it. This internal | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
e-mail shows that Serco were so overwhelmed with the backlog of | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
records, they asked London probation staff to assist with overtime. 362 | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
records were still out of date in October. It is difficult for | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
probation officers to sanction offenders through called breach | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
proceedings. With the breaches if people fail to offend they get two | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
chances, the first time they get a warning letter, the second time they | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
get a breach letter. We have to get that into court, into the | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
prosecutors within eight days. That's the target. We're not getting | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
the information on a lot of cases until possibly four, five days after | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
they have missed. There are a lot of cases where there is no point even | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
sending them back to court, because it is not going to go through the | :18:49. | :18:55. | |
court procedures. This document shows since Serco took over the | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
contract, there have been consistent complaints of inaccurate and late | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
reporting, peaking in October this year. We have seen evidence showing | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
that right up until last week information collected by Serco used | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
to pend offenders back to court was incorrect. In a small number of | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
cases we are aware of, offenders have been sent back to court or | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
failing to do community service, only for it to be withdrawn or | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
thrown out of court, because the information was wrong. We're finding | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
it increasingly hard to enforce justice in these cases, because the | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
quality of the evidence often isn't there. We have to be sure that if | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
we're taking breach action against an offender that we have a robust | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
case. We are relying on Serco instead of our own information, that | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
information is often incomplete or late or of dubious quality. What's | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
more we have seen e-mails suggesting that prisoners on curfew who have | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
been electronically tagged may not have been monitored properly in one | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
borough of London, raising questions as to whether probation officers | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
knew where offenders had been. This is not part of the community service | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
contract, but the e-mail suggests that Serco had been sending | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
incidents of curfew breaches to the wrong mailbox at the probation trust | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
from September to October. The Ministry of Justice say they are | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
investigating. When Serco was awarded the contract last year, the | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
Chief Inspector of probation said it would be regrettable if work done | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
with offenders became fragments with more providers being involved. She | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
warrant it could increase the potential for communication | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
problems. The The one we are looking at is information accuracy and | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
timeliness... We took our evidence to a former Chief Inspector of | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
probation. What I have seen in your evidence is a pattern of inaccuracy, | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
it is difficult to judge as to whether these are isolated cases or | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
whether they are getting better or worse, but you have shown me | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
sufficient material that it calls in, it raises serious questions. In | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
my judgment there is a sufficient quantity of evidence here for | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
someone to be taking a very close look at it. The evidence we | :21:12. | :21:20. | |
discovered shows a private company has struggled to keep on top key | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
information, and they haven't been monitoring some offenders properly. | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
Those in the service say the breaking up of the community payback | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
scheme in London has had real consequences for the delivery of | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
justice. It comes as questions are already being asked about the | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
Government's wider plans for the privatisation of the Probation | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
Service. We contacted Serco they gave us this | :21:42. | :23:07. | |
What are the implications for the Government's plans to hand control | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
of Probation Services to more private firms and charters across | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
the country. Joining me Sue Hall chair of the Probation Chiefs | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
Association, and Max Chambers from the Policy Exchange think-tank. Sue | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
do you think there is a problem? Clearly the Allegations we have | :23:27. | :23:35. | |
heard are serious. It could be teething problems then? We are | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
talking about a contract 15 months in and inherited from London | :23:40. | :23:46. | |
probation trust as a going concern. Community payback in London is one | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
of 35 community payback schemes and the Government's plans will see next | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
year, not just 34 other community payback schemes, put out to | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
competition, but actually a much wider array of work with offenders, | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
probably about 70% of the case load that probation currently manages. To | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
move into that order of competition on the basis of very little | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
experience, very little evidence of the private sector being able to | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
manage probation work, competently, in the community, feels rash. Do you | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
think there is a problem? I'm not quite sure having just seen the | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
video how much that shows us about the wider implications. It doesn't | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
look like public safety was put at risk at all in the video. And what | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
we can be sure of as far as I'm aware, London Probation Trust and | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
the Ministry of Justice are pretty happy with the contract being run. | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
If supervision is deteriorating of the offenders doing the community | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
payback, potentially those offenders could be reoffending but no-one | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
would know? I think people would know, I mean reoffending rates are | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
published and are very transparent, published by the Ministry of | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
Justice. But the superviser, circumstance co-won't know -- Serco | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
wouldn't know? I don't think there is evidence of supervision | :25:12. | :25:14. | |
deteriorating and Serco as far as I'm aware are meeting and exceeding | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
their performance targets. I think it is difficult to draw wider | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
implications about whether the Government's reform, about reducing | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
reoffending not just about community payback, it is hard to draw those | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
links on the basis of an investigation that was | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
whistleblowers rather than the people managing the service. The | :25:35. | :25:37. | |
head of the London Probation Trust hasn't given you an interview, I'm | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
not sure if she's happy with the service. My understanding is MOJ and | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
the London Probation Service are happy with the contract as it is | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
run. It is with an efficiency of 37% as well as maintaining a good | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
standard of service. If we talk about reducing reoffending, case | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
loads supervised by the Probation Service at the moment have a good | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
track record of reducing reoffending. We have seen rates come | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
down over the last ten years. The rational of privatising the | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
Probation Service isn't because probation is a failing service. | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
There is a group of offenders within the system, the short-term prisoners | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
that currently are not supervised. It seems that the Government has | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
made the leap from need to go provide services from that Europe to | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
dismantling the Probation Service in order to provide the funding to do | :26:31. | :26:37. | |
so. That's a really huge leap, it is like bedding the farm on the throw | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
of a dice, that by doing this massive outsourcing you will provide | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
better result I don't think there is the evidence around it at the | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
moment, to give us confidence that will be so. In terms of the evidence | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
we have got two schemes that are running are payments by results | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
schemes. The Government is setting a clear objective and saying if you | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
cut reoffending we will pay you in full. If you don't we won't. That is | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
the incentive that Policy Exchange and the Government have been talking | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
about. One of those schemes in pet borrow, the reoffending results of | :27:11. | :27:18. | |
the cohort are 50 lower than the national -- 50% lower than the | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
national average. In Peterborough there is 15 months yet to run of | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
that, very, very early results on a very small sample. Can I put the | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
point that the NAPA representative made in the film, it is increasingly | :27:32. | :27:37. | |
hard enforce justice. Do you accept that? I don't accept that, I don't | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
think we saw from the IT issues that all probation trusts were having | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
that there is necessarily an issue around enforcing justice that is | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
exclusive to the private sector. I don't think that the investigation | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
proved that at all. What we're talking about is not just the | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
running of community payback but the running of probation supervision in | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
the round. What the Government is saying that the Probation Service | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
has not performed well enough in terms of producing reoffending. The | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
Government isn't saying that? The Government has said that. The | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
Government is saying that reoffending rates in relation to | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
under 12-month prisoners are too high, whom the Probation Service | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
doesn't supervise. They are suggest issing you do it in a different way, | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
and this contract costs tax-payers' ?25 million. If you were to | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
extrapolate from the costs of the London pay grabbing contract to how | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
much you would say down the country you would be Shahhedly mistaken. | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
There is -- you would be sadly mistaken. You couldn't make those | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
levels of savings across the country. Plans for privatisation | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
which are ill thought through, are being driven into quickly, that puts | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
the public at risk. If you have 70% of the case load and talking 190 | :28:58. | :29:09. | |
,000, supervised by the private sector, models untried and tested | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
where there are even teething problems will put the public at | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
risk. I think the reforms are not being of A rushed way. There are | :29:21. | :29:28. | |
thousands of offenders not getting correct supervision and people | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
reoffending, we need reforms and we hope the Government will see them | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
through. P tonight the Ministry of Justice released a statement, public | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
safety has not been compromised in the delivery of this contract which | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
has provided one million hours of offender labour for London. Serco's | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
performance is improving month on month, they are meeting key targets | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
and outperforming the national average. 80% of offenders are now | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
successfully completing payback, # % above national average. All | :30:01. | :30:08. | |
offenders are deeply assessed. July figures show 90% of breach cases | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
were followed through by enforcement action by Serco. They are offering | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
enough placements to meet court demands in London. With innovative | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
ways of working there were some bedding issues at the initial stage | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
we are satisfied these have been resolved. We have asked the | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
probation trust to inform us where they have not received correct | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
paperwork that may have brought breached action. We will follow that | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
up with Serbing KOECHLT The Ministry of Justice holds contracts with | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
Serco and G 4. S and their investigation is on going. | :30:45. | :31:00. | |
How good a footballer was buy Lione Messi, top flight clubs are vying to | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
sign up an eight-year-old from Argentina, he has been watched on | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
social media from around the world. How can the sporting skills shown by | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
a primary school child be any measure of what sort of a footballer | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
he will be like as an adult. We have more. This is Claudio Nachafiel, | :31:21. | :31:32. | |
from Argentina and eight years old. Top clubs around the world are | :31:33. | :31:40. | |
fighting to sign him. And who can blame them. Prodigies have | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
mesmerised the world for centuries. The idea of young children zapped | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
with genius from birth. These kids from the Westway Sports Club in | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
London are hoping to be the next big thing in football. Does preordained | :31:58. | :32:05. | |
genius exist and why do so many called prodigies burn out. Ed Smith | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
is a former England international cricketer. Expectation works against | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
the enjoyment in sport, which is enjoyment and joy. Kids who mature | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
too early in expressing their talent don't develop the psychological | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
robustness to enable them to actually have that great career, | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
that perhaps they seemed predestined for. That is why there is evidence, | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
I think, that the late run can you preferable. In my own cricket career | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
I saw lots of people earmarked for greatness, get gradually overtaken | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
by people who were mentally better equipped for life at the top. These | :32:45. | :32:52. | |
kids are aiming high and the coaches are hoping to produce the next | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
sensation. Boys don't worry, heads up, come on. Of course some | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
supertalents like Lionel Messi, signed by Barcelona at 13, and Tiger | :33:05. | :33:13. | |
Woods, were standing out early. Others like Gary Neville flourished | :33:14. | :33:16. | |
rather later. Development seems to have a range of different at that | :33:17. | :33:24. | |
ject trees. Kevin Pietersen who plays his whatever number game, at | :33:25. | :33:32. | |
13 he was an offspinner Number Ten who was struggling to get into a | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
side in South Africa. There was nothing in his childhood that | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
suggested he was going to become one of the great batsmen of the modern | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
era. But it was his ability to make up his own mind and his ability to | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
be self-taught and not to have a track record of people having | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
tinkered with him too much, that enabled him, when he did, if you | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
like, get seized by ambition, to actually be in an optimal position | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
to make the most of it. Scouting operations have become increasingly | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
sophisticated. Premier League clubs are scrutinising players, deploying | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
data analysis and psychometrics on children as young as ten. The | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
pressure is ratcheting up, on players and parents. You can have a | :34:14. | :34:21. | |
10, 11, 12-year-old child who suddenly has up to that period had | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
their parents to guide them. All of a sudden you have agents involved. | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
You have got coach, you have got nutritionists and ologyists or | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
whatever, they all have an interest in that child. It changes the whole | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
dynamic. It goes from being something that is fun and enjoyable | :34:44. | :34:51. | |
and something to kind of do with your friends to being a full-time | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
profession. The temptation, all too often is to push too hard. But the | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
danger is if the young footballer or violinist is practising not for its | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
own sake but to please a parent or coach, they are far more likely to | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
burn out. The key in psychological terms is for the young performer, | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
the aspiring champion to care about what they are doing from the inside. | :35:13. | :35:20. | |
Even more the super talented excellence is a long journey. | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
Resilience is probably more important than early promise. But if | :35:25. | :35:31. | |
prodigies retain their joy and with a bit of God fortune, anything is | :35:32. | :35:40. | |
possible. David Cameron showed how much he cared about the environment | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
in 2006 by cavorting with huskies. The Hundred reports that David | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
Cameron has told aides to "get rid of the green crap", is this the sign | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
of David Cameron the moderniser or the right-wing populisim. We have | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
our guests with us to discuss this. What did Mr Cameron mean? That he's | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
realising that the priorities he outlined back in 2006 aren't really | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
relevant now and the green stuff has become a lot more expensive and | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
causing real pain in people's household budgets. His aim as Prime | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
Minister is to get cheap not green energy. He has made this choice. Are | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
you worried about the shift? It doesn't sound to me like the sorts | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
of worse that David Cameron uses, it sound much more like Linton Crosby. | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
You have to remember that there is nothing unconservative about | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
spending a small sum of money and helping the oldest and poorest to | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
insulate their homes. It is Conservative to support injuries | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
thriving throughout the recession, and now beg bigger than the car and | :36:51. | :36:58. | |
telecoms industries combined. Anti-green is antigrowth. In an age | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
where politicians are not trusted, it would be mad for one so known for | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
green policies to do a bolt. David Cameron is not very coherent? It is | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
when the facts change. You change your mind. The energy debate has | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
transformed since he got on the husky dogs a while ago. American is | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
cutting down its carbon by going for fracking, we should do that here. | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
Has it transformed because of what Ed Miliband said about freezing | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
energy prices? He was able to call out David Cameron and his energy | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
policies for jacking up bills. That is completely unacceptable, of | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
course Ed Miliband's bill but David Cameron is realising he has been | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
mugged by reality. The experience of Government has led him to revise | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
what was plan for getting elected, didn't quite work. In office he's | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
pivoting back, it is not so much moving to the right but to the | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
people. thepeople. 'S pragmatist? No, what you are seeing is he has | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
come under a lot of pressure from UKIP and certain sections of his own | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
party. There has been a reductive tendency within Government, which is | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
to go for the old fashioned policies that failed in the past under Hague | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
and Michael Howard, which is a narrow and fearful agenda which is | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
alienating young people and female voters, it isn't recruiting ethnic | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
minorities. If he's dropping the "green crap" won't that chime to | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
voters rather than undermining them?. It is undermining growth, why | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
would you do that because it makes no sense whatsoever. People are | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
worried about bills at the end of the month. One of the failures they | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
have is to tackle the big corporates. We have a problem with | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
capitalism in this country, not because there is too much, but there | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
is too little. We have crony capitalism able to get away with too | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
much. It is failure of regulation and complete myth to think that | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
these ideas are saying to concern energy which are very, very | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
conservative are the problem. That is the myth. Green policies have run | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
Germany into the found, it wasn't the same as we thought it was, we | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
does what any politician would do, chining his mind and quick. Is it a | :39:15. | :39:24. | |
vote winner? It is, he is giving help to those who need it most. The | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
polls show where they are at the moment isn't working. The polls show | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
if you reduce a lot of things like this and you appeal to the moderate | :39:35. | :39:41. | |
basis little it is over. The Conservative Party are challenged | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
because they are not winning over the younger voters because the brand | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
is so damaged. We weren't transformed in the election and | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
still not now. Theseth will do more damage to the Conservatives. The | :39:53. | :39:59. | |
Queen visited the shard in London today. We can assume she look a lift | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
to the top and probably didn't have to wait for it. Nor did she have to | :40:04. | :40:10. | |
wait for the lift when she visited BBC New Broadcasting House, and just | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
as well, staff have been grumbling about waiting times for the lifts | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
here since we move in. How many minutes do we average waiting for | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
lifts. We have been hanging around in one or two lift lobbies for a few | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
hours of his life, he won't be getting back. This report contains | :40:28. | :40:40. | |
some strobing. The world is increasingly an urban place, more | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
than half our planet's citizens live in cities. These cities are engines | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
of innovation and economic activity, they can be good for the planet too. | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
Because densely-packed cities thrive on bus, trains and subway systems | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
rather than cars. But all of this would be impossible without one of | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
the most underrated inventions of the past two centuries. It is the | :41:05. | :41:11. | |
lift, and if you will forgive a little self-obsession here at | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
Newsnight, we have been thinking a lot about lifts recently, we have | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
moved to New Broadcasting House, a brand new building, but there is a | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
problem with the lifts. It takes a long time for them to arrive. When | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
they do they are packed like sardines and you can't get on. | :41:29. | :41:39. | |
So how do engineers decide how many lifts go into a building, and how it | :41:40. | :41:55. | |
works. We have an office building where with people all wanting to get | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
to their desk. They are at work and want to get there. The hotel has | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
different timing periods and might need more. Why not put more lifts in | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
buildings so people don't have to wait any longer? The more you have, | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
they take up more space, that is less space for the office and less | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
rent for the landlord. There is more to the business of elevatoring than | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
choosing right number of lifts. That is not a bad start. A modern | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
elevator installation uses computer, monitoring, every lift call putten | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
to and co-ordinating the response of every lift in the building. That may | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
not sound like the world's toughest problem, there is a lot for the | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
computer to think about. In a tall building with 20 lift call buttons | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
pressed and eight lifts there are over a billion, billion different | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
situation for the computer to send the lifts off to respond. Since | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
nobody likes a sluggish lift, it all has to be done in a 50th of a | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
second. If only there was somebody we could turn to? Somebody who could | :43:03. | :43:10. | |
solve all of our elevator-based problems. Big or small. Dear lift | :43:11. | :43:20. | |
doctor, sometimes I press the button and I can see the lift coming but it | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
goes right past me, why does the lift hate me. The computer sees all | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
the calls and all the lifts and it knows there might be some other | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
people who have been waiting longer than you. It's trying to minimise | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
the waiting for everyone, while you wait for the next lift overall it | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
might be better for everyone. Dear lift doctor, I work in a busy | :43:44. | :43:46. | |
building, in the morning everyone comes in at the same time and we are | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
all hanging around in the lobby for an occasional lift to arrive and a | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
few us to get in. Help us. You have only one button on the ground floor, | :43:58. | :44:04. | |
so only one lift is sent and the others are brought back. It is good | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
to make sure all the cars are brought back. Dear lift doctor, the | :44:09. | :44:19. | |
problem is with the cafe and back. What can you do? You can give free | :44:20. | :44:26. | |
tea and coffee on the floors, then people don't make extra trips to the | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
cafeteri It is annoying to wait an extra minute for a lift. But a big | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
building with a poorly designed elevator system would keep you | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
longer than that. Five, ten minutes in a scraper the lifts have to be | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
perfect. Modern skyscrapers use a destination control system. We swipe | :44:50. | :44:57. | |
the card, enter our destination. Which in English you tell the | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
elevator the floor you need and it assigns you the correct elevator. | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
The system will group travellers together to a set number of floors. | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
So the benefits system is it will travel to that certain number of | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
floors without stopping everywhere. These are double-decker elevators is | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
that common snooty The new technology? Twin elevators, | :45:23. | :45:36. | |
similar to this but the cars are separated in the same cat but one | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
car operating independently from the other car. Same principle, moves | :45:41. | :45:47. | |
lots of people. One final element for the conscientious elevator | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
scientist to consider. These lifts aren't moving cargo, they are moving | :45:53. | :46:03. | |
people. And that means trouble. The BBC building managers at New | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
Broadcasting House complain there is nothing wrong with the lifts, it is | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
just that the users are doing it wrong. Apparently we overuse some | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
banks of elevators and underuse others. In the future our robot | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
over-Lords will take care of all of that. It may be that the security | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
card that you carry to get into the building will already have your | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
preferred floor coated into it, when you swipe your card through whatever | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
entry device like a turnstile. The turnstile will have a screen | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
embedded in it. You walk over to the elevator bank and get in, you won't | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
have to touch anything. Cities are getting bigger, buildings getting | :46:48. | :46:50. | |
taller, computers are getting faster and people are getting busier. That | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
can only mean one thing, the dawn of the new age of the intelligence | :46:57. | :47:04. | |
elevator is only just beginning. That's all for this evening, good | :47:05. | :47:06. |