29/11/2013 Newsnight


29/11/2013

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 29/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

15% of the increase is due to green levies that David Cameron has been

:03:31.:03:39.

talking about. The other 25% is explained by higher energy costs. It

:03:40.:03:47.

would be a whole lot easier if it was all about excess profits. The

:03:48.:03:52.

average profit per bill has risen from 5% to a healthy, but not

:03:53.:03:58.

exorbitant, 6.7%. Real profit margins may be higher than those

:03:59.:04:05.

figures suggest. Generally speaking, profits have averaged around 5%.

:04:06.:04:10.

That is only the retail profit margin. There are also production

:04:11.:04:18.

profits on wholesale energy. Those are around 20, 20 5%. Are you

:04:19.:04:24.

looking for ways to save money? That seems like an argument for greater

:04:25.:04:34.

competition. The big six still controlled 98% of the market. The

:04:35.:04:42.

regulation we have is not driving competition. People assume those

:04:43.:04:49.

companies do not deserve the profits or it indicates the market is not

:04:50.:04:56.

working for consumers. It is like Blackpool illuminations here. That

:04:57.:05:00.

also helps to explain why a recent poll found two thirds of us support

:05:01.:05:04.

something that would have been unthinkable to most people a few

:05:05.:05:09.

years ago - renationalisation of the energy industry. It's just the

:05:10.:05:15.

public wants radical thinking by politicians. From two political

:05:16.:05:23.

leaders on both sides of the divide, we have had claims of green

:05:24.:05:29.

credentials. There has been populist policy-making. What does a modern

:05:30.:05:34.

energy system looks like and one which will provide jobs, warm homes

:05:35.:05:38.

and a secure energy policy and an environmentally friendly energy

:05:39.:05:44.

policy for Britain? That is not what they are doing. There is another

:05:45.:05:50.

energy crisis looming. This bike powers this giant snow globe. The

:05:51.:05:55.

National Grid has said this winter, electricity supplies will be at its

:05:56.:06:00.

tightest for six years. Its cushion spare generating capacity is down to

:06:01.:06:07.

5%. In the winter of 2011/2012, it was 15%. That margin is getting even

:06:08.:06:14.

tighter. If the are not careful, we will be debating why the lights are

:06:15.:06:25.

going out. Joss is the deputy political director of Greenpeace.

:06:26.:06:35.

Prices are up. Very little capacity of energy supply and no investment.

:06:36.:06:42.

It is a disaster, isn't it? On the day the government is cutting

:06:43.:06:45.

installation schemes, the one thing that can instantly consumers from

:06:46.:06:50.

the gas price hike Justin was talking about, the overwhelming

:06:51.:06:53.

reason the bills have gone up is because of gas price hikes. The

:06:54.:06:58.

scheme that is being cut will take hundreds of pounds of peoples bills

:06:59.:07:04.

by insulating them from international markets. Doesn't no

:07:05.:07:08.

need to be something radical like a Big Bang to break up the big six and

:07:09.:07:15.

do something different? We can do something different by rewinding the

:07:16.:07:21.

clock ten years or so and going back to a highly liberalised energy

:07:22.:07:23.

market which is very efficient and reducing prices for consumers and

:07:24.:07:29.

producing some of the cheapest energy in the developed world. Let

:07:30.:07:34.

me just interact. To go back to that liberal agenda, would that actually

:07:35.:07:39.

make sure you are cutting carbon emissions efficiently? Let's accept

:07:40.:07:45.

the argument that you do want to cut carbon emissions. If you want to cut

:07:46.:07:49.

carbon emissions, the best way to do it is to tax carbon emissions or

:07:50.:07:53.

have some kind of cap on carbon emissions and have an emissions

:07:54.:07:57.

trading scheme and allow people to find the best and cheapest way,

:07:58.:08:01.

whether it be consumers or producers of energy, to reduce the carbon

:08:02.:08:05.

intensity of electricity production. It might be in selecting homes,

:08:06.:08:13.

switching off the lights, buying fuel through renewable sources. Is

:08:14.:08:20.

that enough? If you look across to Germany, about 90% of all new

:08:21.:08:25.

generating capacity is owned by families, churches, local

:08:26.:08:29.

authorities. Where is the big innovation? Where is the investment?

:08:30.:08:39.

It is not just because it is small scale. It is not small scale at all.

:08:40.:08:45.

We are talking about half of Germany 's electricity being generated. The

:08:46.:08:50.

power is owned by the people and people have a stake in it.

:08:51.:08:55.

Stabilising prices because gas prices are driving up costs. When

:08:56.:09:01.

you look at the scale of costs, for example, in other European

:09:02.:09:04.

countries, we do not fair that badly. What is going on? We do not

:09:05.:09:10.

trust the energy companies as an industry to do the best for us. Why

:09:11.:09:16.

is that? To a large degree, it is a government failure. The government

:09:17.:09:24.

has tried to intervene in the production of electricity by

:09:25.:09:25.

determining how electricity companies should generate

:09:26.:09:27.

electricity through renewable obligations. They have two have

:09:28.:09:31.

offshore wind farms where electricity production production is

:09:32.:09:39.

3.5 times more expensive. It will allow companies to do this in the

:09:40.:09:44.

cheapest way. Regulators have started to interfere in the retail

:09:45.:09:49.

market. In 2008, the regulators stopped energy companies going into

:09:50.:09:53.

other areas and offering lower prices than they provided to their

:09:54.:09:56.

existing customers. They regarded them as predatory pricing will stop

:09:57.:10:04.

switching has fallen by 50%. We are in a cartel, aren't we? Energy

:10:05.:10:10.

companies have a complete monopoly. We have a crazy situation where the

:10:11.:10:14.

Prime Minister is so afraid of taking them on that he is not

:10:15.:10:18.

prepared to tell them and lay down some rules. Instead, what we have

:10:19.:10:23.

our levies that will insulates consumers and reduce pollution.

:10:24.:10:27.

These popular measures are being cut because he is afraid of taking on

:10:28.:10:33.

the energy companies. Do you think people want to do renationalisation

:10:34.:10:38.

people philosophically believe in nationalised industries or do they

:10:39.:10:42.

think the energy industry is a load of profiteers? I think they do feel

:10:43.:10:47.

they are getting a bad deal. Six energy companies is properly for

:10:48.:10:51.

more companies than another of supermarkets that can be visited.

:10:52.:11:00.

There is a wider issue. One problem is the regulator. If there is going

:11:01.:11:07.

to be a competition enquiry, the government and the regulator itself

:11:08.:11:12.

is part of the problem. Just talk about market failure. Was trying to

:11:13.:11:17.

think of the company you might trust in society. Who do we trust? Quite a

:11:18.:11:22.

lot of people trust John Lewis. Is it because we do not trust the

:11:23.:11:26.

energy suppliers because of the way they treat customers, hike the bills

:11:27.:11:31.

without telling you, because of the dreadful bone nines and they are

:11:32.:11:36.

unresponsive? If we had energy delivered by someone like the John

:11:37.:11:40.

Lewis partnership, would that take it did -- with that make it

:11:41.:11:44.

different is? There are small companies that people have not heard

:11:45.:11:48.

of which are greener than the big six but they are also cheaper than

:11:49.:11:54.

the big six. I use a small company and it is green and they invest in

:11:55.:11:59.

clean energy. They are very small. It is because of the broken nature

:12:00.:12:03.

of our market that those companies are really struggling because the

:12:04.:12:07.

big six have the stranglehold. I think we need to open up the market

:12:08.:12:11.

to these new companies but also local authorities and cities. Why do

:12:12.:12:18.

you think politicians do not feel they can take on the energy

:12:19.:12:23.

industry? You are assuming the energy industry needs to be taken

:12:24.:12:28.

on. I am not uncomfortable at all with the competition commission

:12:29.:12:30.

enquiry into the industry. They might find the regulator and the

:12:31.:12:34.

government is a large part of the problem. We have often had

:12:35.:12:37.

difficulties when we try to redesign industries. With the railways, we

:12:38.:12:41.

tried to redesign it to create, edition and we made it more

:12:42.:12:45.

expensive. You cannot leave this market as it is. Thank you both very

:12:46.:13:00.

much. We have robbed human life of its existential value. The savage

:13:01.:13:09.

killing of Fusilier Lee Rigby, whose death was played out in footage

:13:10.:13:15.

taken by a mobile in May, was a shocking act of violence. The trial

:13:16.:13:21.

of the two began at the Old Bailey. Graphic CCTV footage was played out

:13:22.:13:28.

in court. What happened? The jury of eight women and four men were

:13:29.:13:31.

hearing from the prosecution who was setting out their case. The case was

:13:32.:13:38.

that the two men carried out a savage attack on Fusilier really --

:13:39.:13:45.

Fusilier Lee Rigby on May 22 of this year. We can see circled in red, Lee

:13:46.:13:54.

would be walking down the street. He is about to cross the road. A couple

:13:55.:14:01.

of cars pass. This was shown to the court today. We see that he is about

:14:02.:14:07.

to cross the road. He starts to cross here. A car is approaching

:14:08.:14:13.

from behind. It accelerates and the video stops. The court was told that

:14:14.:14:18.

the car hits Lee Rigby. He was carried on to the bonnet, the

:14:19.:14:21.

windscreen until the car hit a road sign.

:14:22.:14:27.

The jury were told that the drivers of the car got out. He started

:14:28.:14:31.

attacking Lee Rigby with a meat cleaver. The jury were told that it

:14:32.:14:37.

was a horrific and frenzied attack, and the driver of the car was using

:14:38.:14:40.

considerable force with the meat cleaver. The prosecution say the, as

:14:41.:14:44.

were like a butcher attacking a joint of meat. Witnesses reported

:14:45.:14:48.

that Lee Rigby was unconscious at the time.

:14:49.:14:52.

The court heard that the attackers said that this was an eye for an eye

:14:53.:14:57.

in retaliation from Britain's war against what they said was a war

:14:58.:15:01.

against Muslims. Both men, however, deny the charge of murder against

:15:02.:15:03.

them. Richard, thank you very much indeed.

:15:04.:15:09.

Tonight, around 20,000 Ukrainians have turned out in Kiev's

:15:10.:15:13.

Independence Square, scene of the Orange Revolution almost a decade

:15:14.:15:17.

ago. Tonight, they're protesting against their president's

:15:18.:15:23.

spectacular U-turn, turning his back on a planned deal with EU in favour

:15:24.:15:28.

of Russia. After Victor Yanukovych's sudden and controversial

:15:29.:15:31.

announcement, which many believe is triggered by pressure from Vladimir

:15:32.:15:36.

Putin, the country's jailed former Prime Minister, Yulia Tymoshenko,

:15:37.:15:41.

went on hunger strike. Now she has been refused access to her lawyer.

:15:42.:15:46.

With temperatures plummeting, pro-tempt settle in for a hard night

:15:47.:15:53.

in Kiev's independence square. Their message to their president,

:15:54.:15:56.

Victor Yanukovych, our future is with Europe, and you must go.

:15:57.:16:04.

Their hopes were dealt a new blow today when Mr Yanukovych turned his

:16:05.:16:11.

back on a deal to the Ukraine to move closer to the EU. EU leaders

:16:12.:16:16.

accuse Russia of pressuring him into the change. We may not give in to

:16:17.:16:22.

external pressure, not the least from Russia.

:16:23.:16:27.

The deal also dashed the hopes of jailed former Prime Minister Yulia

:16:28.:16:30.

Tymoshenko, imprisoned for abuse of power. She was to be released as

:16:31.:16:35.

part of the EU deal. She is now on hunger strike until the deal is

:16:36.:16:40.

signed. No-one knows when or if that will happen. A little earlier this

:16:41.:16:46.

evening, I spoke to her daughter in Independence Square in Kiev.

:16:47.:16:52.

Your mother has apparently been refused the opportunity to see her

:16:53.:16:59.

lawyer today. What reason was given? When the penitentiary system doesn't

:17:00.:17:02.

let a lawyer in to see her, they don't give a reason, they just break

:17:03.:17:07.

the law. Today, there was no legal reason given not to see her, and we

:17:08.:17:10.

of course are worried for her because she's on her fifth day of

:17:11.:17:13.

hunger strike, and we're not sure what her state of health is right

:17:14.:17:15.

now. When did you last see her? I saw her

:17:16.:17:22.

on her birthday, actually, on 27 November, just before the the

:17:23.:17:25.

villainous summit, and we were able to see her also after a lot of

:17:26.:17:29.

fights with penitentiary system. Do you think there's a chance that she

:17:30.:17:33.

is being force-fed already? We're not sure, becau we haven't seen her

:17:34.:17:37.

yet. You know, at the moment, after the failure of the signature, we see

:17:38.:17:41.

the new wave of repressions towards her, towards us, the defence team,

:17:42.:17:47.

and we are not sure how far they can go in aggression against her.

:17:48.:17:52.

When you spoke to your mother, when you saw her, do you think that she

:17:53.:17:57.

is resolute about this hunger strike? Did you discuss how far she

:17:58.:18:00.

is prepared to go, if she is prepared to go to death? She is

:18:01.:18:05.

already made very difficult decisions for the sake of the

:18:06.:18:09.

signature, and the final of the way that what she can do physically, or

:18:10.:18:14.

being in isolation now, is to protest in this way. From the one

:18:15.:18:17.

hand, I understand her, that that is her way of showing her position, how

:18:18.:18:21.

strong she feels about signing the agreement and its failure, but, on

:18:22.:18:24.

the other hand, I am very worried about her health. Ukraine is in a

:18:25.:18:30.

hard place. If President Putin puts pressure on over trade and jobs,

:18:31.:18:35.

what is Ukraine to do? Well, first of all, the reasons that Yanukovych

:18:36.:18:43.

gave of losses of a cessation agreement are really false reasons,

:18:44.:18:47.

they're just a facade covering his real intention not to sign

:18:48.:18:52.

agreement, not to fulfil European criteria, and my mother in her

:18:53.:18:56.

appeal stated that if Yanukovych doesn't sign today, and he didn't,

:18:57.:19:00.

that he will never sign it as a president of Ukraine. The new hope

:19:01.:19:05.

is for the new democratic forces and that a president that can win 2015

:19:06.:19:10.

elections. Under the EU deal, she would have been able to leave for

:19:11.:19:13.

Germany to have back surgery, and she made an open letter today to the

:19:14.:19:18.

president to waive that part of the deal.

:19:19.:19:22.

Was that a hard thing for her to do? Of course, it is been very hard

:19:23.:19:26.

thing to do for her because in the beginning, from the start, and she

:19:27.:19:31.

is continuing to fight, and we all with her, for her political

:19:32.:19:34.

rehabilitation, the whole world now acknowledges that she is really

:19:35.:19:39.

political prisoner, that her trial was politically motivated, she is

:19:40.:19:42.

really an innocent person, so, of course, it was a hard decision for

:19:43.:19:46.

her. Does the Orange Revolution seem a very long way away now? She

:19:47.:19:53.

mentioned in her appeal at the square on Sunday, 24 November, that

:19:54.:19:58.

Yanukovych, like nine years ago, after falsifying election, rose up

:19:59.:20:04.

Orange Revolution. Now we see the same upheaval of people after his

:20:05.:20:09.

denial to the Ukraine people of hopes for re-integration. Do you

:20:10.:20:13.

feel that had the EU been clearer about the financial support it was

:20:14.:20:17.

going to give Ukraine, then this would not have happened? Do you feel

:20:18.:20:22.

let down by the EU? Well, I am sure, and I know that the EU - the

:20:23.:20:27.

European leaders were very clear, and also US leaders about their

:20:28.:20:34.

support for the IMF funding, and other monetary help and support for

:20:35.:20:38.

Ukraine, but what the European Union is proposing is much more than just

:20:39.:20:44.

monetary help, it is political civilisation change for Ukraine,

:20:45.:20:52.

whilst other agents of pressure for Ukraine or - offer a short-term

:20:53.:20:55.

bailout which would mean we would, Yanukovych would have to trade away

:20:56.:20:59.

Ukraine's independence bit by bit, and that is what these people are

:21:00.:21:02.

against. There is no sense there of any betrayal by the EU for not

:21:03.:21:07.

coming up with more support and help? I think that the European

:21:08.:21:15.

leaders have done in this last five years since their movement towards a

:21:16.:21:19.

cessation agreement, since this has started, they have done everything

:21:20.:21:24.

they could, plus they proposed humanitarian and, well, rescue for

:21:25.:21:29.

my mother's illegal situation illegal incarceration, and we're

:21:30.:21:32.

very thankful to them for this support. Thank you very much indeed.

:21:33.:21:42.

The Chapman Brothers, Jake and Dinos, were the most provocative

:21:43.:21:49.

pair of of or lumped together under the banner Young British Artists in

:21:50.:21:53.

the early 1990s making a splash with Disasters of War. Then, charms

:21:54.:21:58.

Saatchi was a patron. After the last 20 years, their endeavours have

:21:59.:22:02.

interrogated ways of seeing the world, questioning ideas of

:22:03.:22:08.

mortality, evil, and consumer I did, often -- consumerism, often with

:22:09.:22:14.

tinges of humour. I went to see it, and met Jake, and there was some

:22:15.:22:16.

strong language. In here, is this the most complete

:22:17.:22:32.

world of Jake and Dinos there is It is a fragment of our world. This is

:22:33.:22:37.

a two per cent. You're perfecting hell and a world that is getting

:22:38.:22:45.

more hellish. We have Ronald, and we have Hamburglal, these different

:22:46.:22:47.

characters, so some of the characters have started to change.

:22:48.:22:50.

The script is pretty much set in terms of the actors, in terms of the

:22:51.:22:54.

mewants, and the skeletons, and the Nazis, because, in our eyes, the

:22:55.:22:59.

Nazis are absolute evil, and no-one else really deserves to be in hell.

:23:00.:23:02.

So you go back to the Nazis all the time? They are just kind of like a

:23:03.:23:09.

generic euphemism for utter evil. And in a sense, what we are

:23:10.:23:13.

interested in is how impoverished that is as a proposition, the idea

:23:14.:23:17.

suggesting that if you make a work of art supposed to be horrific and

:23:18.:23:22.

horrible you use Nazis, whereas if you make something funny, you use

:23:23.:23:26.

smiley face. You've introduced this idea when the first thing you see is

:23:27.:23:29.

the hilarity of the vision, and then you look at it, and it becomes

:23:30.:23:34.

darker? Yes, I mean, I think isn't pathos something to do with

:23:35.:23:41.

relationship between pain and time? There's something funny, there is

:23:42.:23:45.

something, we learn from other people's pain, and we have - our

:23:46.:23:49.

concept of compassion, empathy, is based upon the notion that we

:23:50.:23:54.

identify with someone else's pain of easier than we can with our own, or

:23:55.:23:58.

at least we prefer it. Another recurring theme is taking mainly

:23:59.:24:03.

children, changes in genitalia, mewants, and so forth, and

:24:04.:24:07.

sensation, all those years ago, it was locked in a room, now it's not.

:24:08.:24:11.

Things changed? In a sense, you know, the point about this is this

:24:12.:24:15.

begs the question, what is you mutation? What is adaptation? If

:24:16.:24:19.

this thing is the only thing in the world that looks like this, then

:24:20.:24:23.

this thing is an ideal version of itself. It is not a mutation or it's

:24:24.:24:26.

not an abysmal version of something that's not a perversion. So in a

:24:27.:24:34.

sense, this is a model of self-adaptation rather than it is a

:24:35.:24:37.

model of mutation. The world that we live in now, as opposed to when

:24:38.:24:43.

Sensation came out, is a highly sexualised world for children.

:24:44.:24:45.

Someone will look at this and say it is a girl because it's got long

:24:46.:24:49.

hair. It is fantastic how then it goes back to the idea, if you want

:24:50.:24:52.

to make a happy painting, what do you do? Make a smiley face. If you

:24:53.:24:57.

want to make something evil, you use Nazis. I guess we're interested in

:24:58.:25:01.

how these generic terms are loaded, but also amazingly superficial. This

:25:02.:25:08.

is laugh out loud, right? Yes, this is locking with nature. Did you sit

:25:09.:25:15.

and come up with it? The animals are great? I think, yes, it is to

:25:16.:25:20.

describe the kind of Genesis of a particular idea from the mass of

:25:21.:25:25.

crap that we talk about incessantly all day and every day. These things

:25:26.:25:31.

emerge from the morass of dialogue, actually. When viewers come to your

:25:32.:25:36.

exhibition, there is a state of moral panic induced because they're

:25:37.:25:40.

not sure what to think. The point about it is to actually present the

:25:41.:25:44.

idea that there are real obvious codes being presented, the notion of

:25:45.:25:48.

what a child looks like, the notion of adult genitalia, these things put

:25:49.:25:52.

into a thing which don't seem to deserve each other. Then your

:25:53.:25:55.

problem is your tendency as a moralising subject or an - is to try

:25:56.:25:59.

and form something which is coherent, and it is to try and

:26:00.:26:02.

stabilise the instability of the work. Has the internet kind of

:26:03.:26:06.

stolen a bit of your thunder? Yes, because it is bigger!

:26:07.:26:12.

Even in the Chapman Brothers - Yes, almost. In ego maybe. ! Then you've

:26:13.:26:17.

got the clan in hippy slippers. Yes. But the clan again, is the -

:26:18.:26:23.

Somewhere probably, in Devon someone is knitting these things because

:26:24.:26:27.

they have had such a like a hit on the internet, like we want 60 pairs.

:26:28.:26:31.

They think there is a new rise in hippies. The idea of taking 19th

:26:32.:26:35.

century portraits and we doing the faces, why do you like doing these

:26:36.:26:42.

ones? Because there is something very cruel about tampering with what

:26:43.:26:46.

is a relic of someone's bid for immortality. Here is this kind of

:26:47.:26:55.

bourgeois wealthy patron who has paid to had his - then, to add

:26:56.:27:06.

insult to injury, we get it, and we inject the entropy he is avoiding. ,

:27:07.:27:13.

the reason we decided to make these things in bronze is because bronze

:27:14.:27:21.

is by its very nature glacial, it is hard. You're talking about something

:27:22.:27:25.

which implies kin nettic movement, seems to imply motion that's been

:27:26.:27:29.

petrified in the instant of its production, so it has no chance of

:27:30.:27:34.

doing what it does. We like the idea of bronze because that's third place

:27:35.:27:37.

in a race. Now we have some breaking news

:27:38.:27:41.

tonight: a helicopter has reportedly crashed into a pub in Glasgow.

:27:42.:27:48.

Located along the river Clyde. The shadow development secretary has

:27:49.:27:50.

told the BBC that he was informed about the crash by the local fire

:27:51.:27:53.

brigade, and that he had been told there were multiple casualties. He

:27:54.:27:56.

said it's not clear how many people are injured, he said a lot. He

:27:57.:28:01.

described a pile of people clambering out of the wreckage and

:28:02.:28:04.

if you follow on the news channel, there will be more news on that as

:28:05.:28:08.

it comes in. We finished with tomorrow's morning front pages:

:28:09.:28:14.

energy bills are to be cut by ?50. Prices could be cut as early as

:28:15.:28:17.

tomorrow, as Osborne prepares to announce a cut in green levies. The

:28:18.:28:25.

Guardian, the very private murder, the killing of Private Lee Rigby.

:28:26.:28:31.

Can you afford the mortgage? Turning the times there, I did it for God,

:28:32.:28:35.

said the killer and question mark, in quotation marks of Lee Rigby,

:28:36.:28:40.

that's what he told the medics, then on the right hand side, the

:28:41.:28:45.

wonderful smile of Joshua Cater who became the poster boys of aid

:28:46.:28:50.

efforts. Yesterday he raised a smile when he was told he was world

:28:51.:28:55.

famous. The daily Mirror, their headline,

:28:56.:29:00.

unspeakable, the moment drummer Lee Rigby is moan down. Unbearable, his

:29:01.:29:04.

mum and widow flee the court in tears as the jury is shown CCTV.

:29:05.:29:10.

Then on the eye on Saturday go, again, a cowardly and callous murder

:29:11.:29:14.

as the trial opens into the barbarous killing of drummer Lee

:29:15.:29:19.

Rigby. Just to remind you, any more news that the BBC can bring you on

:29:20.:29:25.

the story of the helicopter crash in Glasgow, we will be over on the news

:29:26.:29:28.

channel all night. We've already heard from one of the local MPs that

:29:29.:29:32.

there are a number of casualties, and there is a substantial amount of

:29:33.:29:35.

wreckage. The BBC will have as much as they can bring you as quickly as

:29:36.:29:39.

possible. From Newsnight tonight, that's all

:29:40.:29:42.

for tonight. Have a very good night.

:29:43.:29:46.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS