02/12/2013 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Jeremy Paxman.

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Protest, punch-ups and now the Government of Ukraine says


demonstrators are trying to stage a coup. What has happened to a


campaign which began as an attempt to embrace European democracy. I met


someone and they make me feel so happy, so safe and everything just


feels great. A British sporting hero comes out on YouTube. Why do so many


sports stars choose to stay in the closet.


Have smartphones turned us all into idiots. We talk to Randi Zuckerberg


about the state of being together alone, or alone together.


Before all that, yet another problem tonight for the Royal Bank of


Scotland. This evening it became the bank that likes to say... Sorry we


cannot process your transaction. As if it wasn't enough to have played


such a role in bankrupting the country and just a week or so to


have been accused of running businesses into the ground. Tonight,


part of its IT system went into meltdown on what is said to be the


busiest internet shopping day of the year, great numbers of customers


were unable to use their cards. Our own Andrew Verity is here, along


with Paul Lewis, presenter of Radio 4's MoneyBox. What happened? Around


of 6. 30 you had reports of transactions being declined. Just at


the time when people are looking to buy groceries after work. Then you


had a report of a supermarket in Kent where NatWest cards had been


declined en masse. Was it an isolated example, have a look at


Twitter it turned out not. There were hundreds and hundreds of


examples coming in from Twitter of people who had transactions


declined. To give you a flavour of those, "there goes my plan to get


Christmas shopping bargains tonight, daughter stuck in Leeds with no


money for the bus, thanks NatWest your system failure means I can't


pay for it". To avoid confusion, NatWest belongs to Lloyd's? We


bailed them both out after the crisis yes. The customers of NatWest


reporting great difficulties all over. This happened between 6. 30


and 9. 30 and 10.00. It was affecting on-line banking and debit


transactions, on-line banking came up about 10.00, and it looked like


debit card transactions are back. The chaoses causing, one tweet today


my colleague Paul. My autistic son is stressed as card not working in


shops or machines, doing my best to help him by phones. You are the


Messiah in these circumstances if people start tweeting your account


for grumbles. How bad is this? In 18 months in June last year they had a


real problem where systems went out for a week in the case of RBS


customer, slightly for more NatWest. For Ulster Bank, part of the same


group, they were without any access to their bank accounts for a month.


And that often meant that their employer couldn't pay them because


they couldn't get the money into the bank. It was an absolutely major


catastrophe then. What I have been told by RBS tonight is they will


compensate people for any losses, if your car is stuck at the carriage


full of petrol and you can't pay for it. I have had several tweets along


those lines, how do you get home, taxi and hope somebody at home has


the money. They will reimburse the expenses. Even last time with the


really big problems they had, they didn't pay compensation. There was


another minor event that lasted a few hours in March this year. People


with that banking group have really suffered from these IT problems.


This is not banking group that is in robust good health, is it? Well, no,


in many ways it is not. Though I did notice the other day they were


discussing making ?500 million worth of bonus payments, whether that will


happen we will have to see. Last year Ulster Bank directors didn't


take their bonus, I don't know if you recall that. We spent a lot of


money bailing Ulster Bank out too. It is part of the same group, they


didn't take their bonuses but RBS and NatWest did. There are all sorts


of allegations about small businesses and how one bit of the


bank has tried to put them out of business so the other bank bit could


take their property over. Completely denied, of course. And of course the


mis-selling of payment protection insurance, not unique to RBS but


affecting a lot of people too. It is the human side too, people


humiliated at restaurants and turned down for their cards. A lot of


embarrassing dates and early nights! There was an almost plainive tone to


the President of Ukraine today as he appealed to citizens to calm down


and not protesting about his Government. The fact that much of


his Government couldn't function because of the protest had something


to do it. The anger is triggered because he seemed to have decided


that the country lies less in a closer relationship with the


European Union, than keeping sweet with President Putin. The Russian's


ideal leader is a ventriloquist's dummy of course. There are now calls


for a general strike to bring down the Government. In the battle for


Ukraine, protest is becoming increasingly violent, and the stakes


undoubtedly are being raised. What started with demos about the


President's rejection of partnership agreement with the EU is turning


into a struggle about power and how it is wielded. The police made a


mistake when they dispersed the crowd. Lots of people who previously


did not support European integration, or were not ready to go


on to the streets to show their views, if they supported the


European integration, felt angry on Saturday and on Sunday and today, of


course, and more and more people have gone out into the streets and


some people are becoming very anxious about it. This has become a


conflict about Ukraine's true colours. Most Ukrainians say they


feel European, but last month pedestrianian put closer ties to


Russia ahead of the EU deal. It is a curious mismatch that when the


Ukrainians were prepared for integration the rest of Europe was


not, when the rest of Europe is offering that integration, the


leadership in the Ukraine is incapable of accepting the offer. It


is difficult to know what the population itself thinks. But


clearly there is a feeling, certainly among intellectuals and


almost any professional person in Ukraine that this is going back in


history rather than going forward. Today the President, responding to


four days of protest insisted they must be carried on peacefully. Other


Government figures accuse ultras, professional agitators of hijacking


them and trying to mount a coup. Tran People are told to capture all


the administrative buildings. To block the functioning of an


administrative institution, to put forward ultimatums and this is the


way which will lead them nowhere. Now open revolt is spreading in the


west of the country, it is traditionally pro-western half. A


fragile economy is tottering. There is no-one size fits all easy win


outcome here for either side, because I think the current


President doesn't particularly want to give in to becoming a province of


Russia. And I think the protesters must know there isn't an easy way to


become part of the European Union space. The deal the European Union


offered was full of, it was a real package of reforms aimed at helping


Ukraine slowly but steadily move away from its current state. And


some of those reforms will probably end up being adopted, even by the


current Government f it stays in power as part of a deal. With


opposition loaders uniting to try a no-confidence motion in parliament,


President Putin accused them of turning the EU issue to their


advantage, jockeying for a presidential election that is


planned for three months time. TRANSLATION: In my opinion, all that


is happening has no direct connection with the Ukraine-EU


relationship, it is a domestic political process, an attempt by the


opposition to shake the acting and legitimate, I would like to stress


that, authorities. More than that what is happening now shows it is


not at all a revolution but well planned actions. Ukraine opinion


itself has been divided on the question of EU partnership, and


pedestrianian was elected. But the harsher the measures -- the


President was elected, but the harsher the measures taken the more


he reminds the country of the old Soviet leaders and thus loses


support to the opposition. For the past decade Ukraine has been pushed


and pulled between east and west. The battle now taking place on


Kiev's streets may decide the fate of Prime Minister and President, but


that tension between its own people, as much as outsiders, will take far


longer to resolve. Just before we came on air I spoke to the Russian


activist and husband of one of the Pussy Riot members, I asked him how


long these protests were going to continue. It is really hard to see


right now since they have basically started for the first time a week


ago, and at this scale they have been going on for the last three


days and to the maximum point since Sunday, and I think everything will


depend on the results of the negotiations between the opposition


parliament members and the Government. Because for example for


tomorrow morning it is a very important vote scheduled which will


give the answer to the question, will the parliaments be able to make


pedestrianian to pedestrianian resign. You know -- President


Yanukovych resign. People are talking about this like a coup, is


that what it looks like? It is not a coup for the Ukrainian people down


here, to them it was simply an act of taking to the streets and trying


to defend what they think is their rights to live in a civilised


country, to be a part of the European community and this is what


is what they do. This is democratically elected Government


isn't it? At the same time these people really did not, when they


elected President Yanukovych they did not sign to the fact that they


will be basically dealing with the situation when President Yanukovych


will be coming under the influence of President Putin. And making


decisions that most Ukrainians definitely do not agree with. This


is why there is so many people on the street. This is why the protests


have reached a scale they have reached right now. But the protests


seem to an outsider hardly to be politically coherent, there are


extreme nationalists among the protesters aren't there? I wouldn't


say the extreme nationalists were playing an important political role


here. Obviously from a purely political side the protests are


headed by three members of the three opposition factions inside the


parliament and two of those members are not nationalists at all. You


really think that President Yanukovych is going to resign, do


you? It is hard to see what the Government will choose as their


response to the protests right now. But definitely President Yanukovych


and his Government will start making very important negotiation offers to


the opposition right now, it is clear these protests


a Greg Louganis won a medal in the Olympics and came out publicly in


the mid-90s he joins us from San Francisco, what did you make of the


announcement today? I think it is wonderful that Tom. I have observed


him at various competitions and I had the luxury of seeing him at a


lot of the competitions and the thing that impressed me most about


Tom Daley, it is not so much how talented he is, he is Anne credibly


talented diver, but the way in which he treated his friends and his fans


and -- he is an incredibly talented diver, it was the way he treated his


friends and fans, he always had a smile on his face. We all want to fe


loved and safe, and those were the words in his message, I just really


wish the best for him. Were you slightly envious of the times we


live in now compared to the times when you came out? It is interesting


when I look back at career and a lot of the homophobic comments that were


made through my career, you know I have been back to a lot of those


people, who have actually become friends. It was more jealousy than


it was homophobia. Although there was some homophobia around there. We


have come to age What strikes me is the honesty,


that these young people feel, in order for them to be all that they


can be, they have to be honest with themselves and they need to be


honest with the public. It is striking, this is a top-level


competitor in team sports it is much more unusual? In team sports it is a


little different, because That is why it is a team sport. Unless you


are a Michael Jordan, and you carry the team, you know, then it is


pretty safe. You need to have the safety and security. That is the


thing that Tom said, that he feels safe in a team situation, you have


to have that support Of the rest of your team. I think that many players


might find it very surprising that they actually might have that


support, you know. If they were to Be a little bit more open about who


they are. It is hard, it is hard to be the first one to be out there.


You know we're inundated with these ideals and what's right and what's


wrong and you know, I was born this way. I was born gay, I didn't choose


to be gay. It is like me asking somebody who is straight, when did


you choose to be straight? You may be a reticent fellow in this sort of


matter, do you but have any advice for anyone who is gay and not yet


out who is sports man or women? Each individual has their own personal


journey, and that journey is you know you first start with people who


you feel safe with, and that is actually usually your family and it


opens the doors to those that are open and you see the acceptance and


the appreciation of your honesty and how well respected that is, then you


realise you know it gives you more confidence to come out to other


people. Just to share who you are. People on daily basis, they are


taking out pictures of their kids and their weddings and all that. You


know what, it was just this year that I was able to legally marry my


husband. In the state of California, you know. That privilege, that is


denied to many people. It is marriage equality, you know, that


love is love. It doesn't matter if it is gay or straight, you know. We


just want to be loved and love. The Prime Minister and a hoard of 100


capitist big wigs are in China tonight, enjoying the kind


hospitality of the people's Republic. Arguments about human


rights, the situation in Tibet and so on have been laid aside in much


talk about jam tomorrow in a new commercial relationship between the


two countries. Sasauges, bicycle, architect, museums all harked about


in order to encourage trade. Last year Britain sent ?9 billion of


goods to China and the Chinese sent ?30 billion to this country. Britain


wants China to realise its dream and I believe we can help each other


succeed in the global race. Some in Europe and elsewhere see the world


changing and want to shut China off behind a bamboo curtain of trade


barriers. Britain wants to tear those trade barriers down. This trip


has been a while in the planning, after Beijing declared itself hurt


that David Cameron had met the Dalai Lama last year. This time any


protests were soto V oce. The full range of challenges should be in the


full range of discussion, including our differences. We should approach


with mutual respect and understanding, as we did today. I


welcome the agreement to hold the next human rights dialogue early


next year. Increasing exports to China is an important part of the


Treasury strategy to high to rebuild the UK economy. The trade-off is


between moral self-image and self-interest. This promised new


relationship with China is based on an urge to get a share of the


action. Humam rights activists worry that greed or ambition is elbowing


out humanitarian concerns. But how much is China really changing. Our


world affairs correspondent has been pondering the subject in some of his


favourite haunts in Beijing. Tiananmen Square, the centre piece


of modern Beijing. Old stagers like me can never forget the


demonstrations here which ended in the massacre of 1989. But like China


itself, the square has changed a lot over the years, it is far more


people friendly now than it used to be. Over there are the Great Hall,


where David Cameron has been having talks with leaders, the visit has


been a great success, and unexpected honours has been showered on him.


Why? Because China doesn't trust America to be a reliable partner


sheet more in -- is parter in -- partner any more. And the British


are more than happy to oblige. On the one hand China is closing labour


camps and relaxing the one-child rule, on the other it is silencing


and looking up its critics with renewed energy. Why? What's going on


here? I have really come to love this area. It is called District


798. It used to be an entire suburb composed of weapons factories. Then


the Government closed it down and handed it over to, of all things,


artists, to use as galleries and workshops. For me it is a parable of


the way China could become in the future. When you are here, the old


Chinese Marxist, Leninist state just seems to evaporate. Being here


reminds me forcibly of the artists I used to hang out with in the old


Eastern Bloc countries in the 1980s. Czechoslovakia, Hungary, east German


and the Soviet Union. For them, the old communist system started to


vanish long before the Berlin wall came down. But is the same process


happening here? I'm not really sure yet. This is Lydia Jaing, a woman


with a remarkable background. In the 1980s she was a worker in an arments


factory. Much like this one was before being turned into an art


gallery. Nowadays she's a well known social commentator. I used to think


a year or so ago that he was the man who tried to open up the system but


he couldn't keep control over it, but he's much tougher than that,


isn't he? He's much tougher, I don't think many people will see him as


China's Gorbachev. He mentioned Russia, I think he's haunted by the


collapse of the Soviet Union. He wants to make sure, going out of his


way to make sure it doesn't happen to China. How will it happen? I


think the authorities will have to let people, the way people, allow


people to express their grievances, to express their views, to have a


say in how they are governed. Allow them space to shape the future.


Otherwise I don't think possibly we can last with this model. Whenever I


come to Beijing I like to visit this traditional street, and sample the


street food which is on sale. Locusts, actually rather nice! There


you go! I recommend them. So, what's really going on in the China that


David Cameron has come to visit. My guess, for what it's worth, is that


the leader is an instinctive liberaliser, who understands that


you can't really open up business and manufacturing here,


satisfactorily without giving people much more personal freedom. But, the


Chinese leadership as a whole is still obsessed with what happened


back in 1989, both at Tiananmen Square, and with the fall of


communism in Eastern Europe. Hence the juggling act. There is more


personal freedom here, certainly. But people aren't allowed to go as


far as many of them would like, can it work? Certainly, but only for a


while. The time will come when the old rules will have to be relaxed,


and that will be the point of maximum danger for the old Marxist,


Leninist system. Just sending an e-mail there, you surely can't be


surprised, because this phenomenon of being physically present and


mentally absent of virtual conversations rather than actual


ones is all around us. Couples who go out for dinner and spend the meal


talking to others. Teenagers at home part there part Facebooking. It is


not just the rudeness and superficiality, it is that


technology has broken down the distinction between public and


private. The personal aside that is retweeted across the land, or the


personal photo that some how anyone can see. We report. For millennia


people have struggled with the question, what does it mean to be


human? For the last few years we have been struggling with a


variation on that question, what does it mean to be human with all


this technology! It is unhealthy, because we have let boundaries go.


We are now creatures of this thing that we have created without much


control over it. I really do think it is important that we look at the


social effects of technology a lot more, not just the glitz, glamour


and bling of a new thing. The scene on any street in the modern world,


so familiar as to be mundane, and yet to anyone from two decades ago,


this would all seem utterly bizarre. How bizarre, look at these famous


paintings, reimagined with modern technology, by the Korean artist,


Kim DongYU. We have wandered into this world without any idea of how


and when it is appropriate to use the technology. The Americans have a


phrase FOMO, "fear of missing out". It is this idea that what I'm doing


now is not the best thing I could be doing, maybe someone has messaged or


Facebooked me and I need to check it all the time. It is a kind of mild


paranoia that leaves us dissatisfied and not present here in the now with


somebody talking as we are right now. So what to do about all this?


Well you could make a game out of it, phone stacking, if you are out


for dinner with a group of friends, everyone stacks their phone face


down on the table. Whoever touches their's first gets to pay for


everybody. Most people don't realise our brains are wired to want that


information, to gain more knowledge and to seek out what is going on in


the world. We can't be blamed or feel guilty for wanting to pull our


phones out every five or ten minutes. We need to become more


aware and gain knowledge about why we are doing that. And in turn


create better habits and social norms where we aren't expected to


always be available. Various writers and bloggers are attempting to


evolve a new tech the the question. Including the -- etiquette.


Including the the sister of Mark Zuckerberg. Her blogs are turned


into a book. It is about how to turn things all around us rather than


getting stuck in a virtual world. Turn off all the beeps that keep us.


It is a des to go, turn off cellphones, computers or cameras.


Off the grid. You could try digital des to go, like this American


retreat that demands phones and computers are handed over. Everyone


could benefit from taking, whether a digital des to be retreat, or just a


few -- des to go retreat d detox or digital retreat. Some call it a day


of digital rest. And I think everyone can benefit from taking,


whether it is a few minutes, few hours or days off line. Perhaps


though technology will bring us its own solution. The inspiration behind


the Google Glass device, currently in development is to get our heads


up and hands free, not everyone, it is fair to say that strap ago


computer to our head is the answer. One change that may help is the move


away from text-based to voice-based computer interaction. In the


meantime, are we in danger of becoming robot, the i-diots of this


wonderful Spanish animation. Disconnected by the technology we're


supposed to have to connect us, always on but never present. Randi


Zuckerberg is here, because Facebook has been the subject of a feature


film and much hyped public float and endless legal battles it seems. She


was responsible for Facebook's public image for six years. She's


the sister of the social media site's founder Mark. Now, you seem


to be having a bit of a change of mind about whether this is a


desirable state of affairs or not. We're all living with it any way? It


is definitely a dotcom-plicated world. I think it was having a child


of my own that made me revisit my look on technology and become much


more aware of just how attached we are to our mobile devices. You have


got a sentence in this book about how important it is to acquire a


digital identity in the womb! Could you explain that? Well, gosh, our


digital identity becomes now even before we're born. I know it sounds


crazy but as parents that first time that you post that you are expecting


on-line, that first oversharing son know gram photo -- sonogram photo,


suddenly you have created a digital footprint for your child on-line. I


talked to parents about the really big responsibility we have to our


children that way. What is this responsibility. Well you have the


responsibility as parents to make sure that if you are sharing


information about your children on-line, that you are not doing


anything that will damage them in the future. You also have the


responsibility, a lot of parents now are turning to Google, to search


engines, to make sure that they are carving out the best real estate


on-line for their children, they are reserving e-mail address, they are


making sure that their child doesn't share a name with someone with very


unsavory search results. You are not serious? The first thing anyone will


do when they meet your child is search for them on-line. I think it


is important for parents to make sure they are putting a child's best


foot forward if that is the first thing anyone will do. Do you think


there is a distinction any more between private and public? I think


it is getting very blurry. Now I think in our real lives we have


private, we have public, but most of our lives we live in the personal


area inbetween. I share things, I wouldn't really want on the cover of


the newspaper, but it wouldn't crush me if it wound up there.


Unfortunately on-line don't have that luxury. Everything on-line is


very public or private and that's it. Best not to go on-line, wouldn't


you say? Well, I would think that a few billion people might disagree


with that statement. They choose to do it, they have chosen to succumb


to a created need? I think there are amazing benefits to all of these


on-line sites, obviously I'm a bit biased I worked for six years on the


forefront of one, but I think when you look at a lot of the political


events in the world, people now have a voice that used to be voiceless,


you look at even the disabled community, people can now


communicate in far and away different ways, children now there


is so many more tools for education and creativity. Of course you can


always look at the dark side of anything. But do you have any sense


of a guilty conscience, because you marketed Facebook? No, definitely


not. I definitely believe that the glass is very half full when it


comes to using Facebook. But what I do think is that especially as a


mom, it is easy when you are in Silicon Valley to have your head


down and think about what you are innovating right now, it was not


until I left and started speaking to other moms, other people around the


world that I realised for every opportunity we have created with


social media we have also created challenges in people's lives that


definitely need to be addressed. Interesting you used the word


"challenges" as opposed to problems? Problem infers that there is not an


easy solution, I think they are challenges because it is a website.


It is a phone, it is just a tool. The website isn't bad, the phone


isn't bad it is how we use it. Overall people are niave though?


People are, no, I don't think people are niave, in fact young people


today when you talk to them they are much more savvy about anything


on-line than you would even guess or imagine. They are very savvy about


their privacy settings, they are savvy about what they share. I don't


think people are niave at all, it is a human desire to connect. I think


we have taken it a bit too far. Thank you very much. In case you


missed it this weekend saw people from 30 countries gather in Croydon,


of all place, to take part in the World Memory Championships, today


the winner was crowned. Jonas Von Essen triumphed in a series of


tasks, including memorising playing cards and historic dates. Tonight we


thought we would give him another challenge. You have seven minutes to


commit our end credits to memory, starting now. By the age of 77, most


people would expect to be able to put their feet up, but the actor


Robert Redford is still at it in JC Khanneder's new movie All Is Lost.


He plays a man alone fighting the elements when his boat is struck by


a cargo container. He's the ship's only speaking role and not that much


at all. He met the film critics while he was here. This is the


Virginia Jane, SOS call, over. You are sitting at home and the script


comes through the door, it is 31 pages long, your character doesn't


get a name and barely any dialogue, why do you take the part? I guess


you could say that this was evidence of pure cinema. There are no


barriers of dialogue, there are no barriers of too much information. It


was pretty much existential in that you just had to be there and it


would give the viewer a chance to come closer to you as a character.


For all those reasons it could easily have gone so wrong, did you


and the director ever look at each other and say what are we doing? I


used to say that to him! Yeah, I think probably there is always that,


there is always that shadow around the film, what are we doing here?


This is the Virginia Jane, an SOS call, over. Did you find it a


challenge acting without a costar to act opposite? Well I love co--star,


I love the interaction between you and another person, I like the


dynamic and exchange. But on the other hand I felt totally


comfortable with this character. His co-star was the water and the boat.


And I had to be comfortable with that and I was. Until it got really


stormy. Is that what reminded you of Jeramiah Johnson, which you have


compared it to, he's acting opposite the land, here it is the sea, there


the American west? It did. But only after. I was too busy getting


through it. I was too occupied with the character and what we were going


through because it was so intense. But after the film was over and I


could think back on it, I realised it had a common theme in the sense


that Jeramiah Johnson, in 1970, that was a man going through incredible


obstacles that seemed impossible to overcome, but he just kept going.


And that was on land. This same thing happens here. And I realise


that there was something thematic about that point when things seemed


so impossible when all seems to be lost. You are 77 now and obviously


in great shape, were you prepared for all that he put you through in


the course of the films? I was offered doubles, when we talked


originally I said it is pretty intense stuff here physically. When


we get down there I will see I will do what I can and we will see where


that goes. And one thing led to another, and as I got more into it I


got more into it. Do you still find it uncomfortable


seeing yourself on the screen when you watch yourself? Yeah. I can't


explain it, I just never really liked it much. I have only seen this


film once. I didn't see Dailies, I didn't go to the monitor like


happens quite a bit now. I'm not a fan of the monitor either as a


director or actor. It has become de rigueur for actors and directors to


hover around the monitor. Not for me. When I'm in the role I'm in the


role I don't want to be distracted by critically looking at myself.


Aside from the fact I have never enjoyed seeing myself. To me it is a


distraction. You came into the industry first written about as a


sex symbol, that must have been a distracting thing, did you find it


difficult to pivot out of that to the more politically engaged films


you wanted to make? I did, I was surprised when it came and then I


was flattered. I enjoyed it for a while. Then I realised that I


couldn't slide out of it, that it was being attached to me in a way


that began to feel uncomfortable, because I felt it became a very


strikes in terms of the performances I would give it would be how I


looked rather than the subtle things within the character. I realised it


was a bit of a cage and it was really hard to get out of. You have


been very passionately engaged with America throughout your career, one


thinks of films from You will The President's Men through to Quiz


Show, she's your most constant co-star, how has America changed in


your lifetime? Nothing has changed from my interests. I felt early on


when I had the chance to tell my story as an acting producer and then


director, what fascinated me was my own country, but not the country


that was propagandaised. Not the country that was overpromoted like


it was at the end of the Second World War when I was a kid growing


up. I remember hearing all the slogans about "doing your bit",


happiness and doing your best", and "it doesn't matter how you play the


game as long as you do your best". I realised that was a lie in my 20s,


there was a grey zone inbetween. I got interested in that, that was


were things were more complex. I didn't see it as black and white,


because of my own live ex-peerences I saw a different America. Still an


America I loved. There were stories I wanted to tell about the grey part


where things were more complex and not so easily determined. And then


so that led me to be more interested in making a film where you end it by


asking a question. And let the audience play a role in


interpretation. It is one of many films this fall with the theme of


survival at the centre. I wondered if this speaks to anything in


America at the moment, these films that focus on a sort of life or


death existential struggle and all is lost as one of those. Does that


connect with anything going on? Since we made this film I didn't


think you could draw a parallel with where the country is, and now you


can. You can. Is all lost? We certainly need to be and seem to be


teetering on the edge. It is embarrassing for me as a person who


loves my country to see the leaders of my country behaving so


ridiculously. So stupidly. In such a narrow-minded way. And seeing how we


must be perceived by other countries like yours. What must you think of


us? So we had pretty poor representation right now with the


breakdown. Particularly you think the motivation on the one side is


just one thing, and that is to go against the President. What a rotten


situation. Robert Redford talking to us. Alongside me is the world memory


champion, Jonas Von Essen, still putting the final names into his


head. He's going to recite them all from memory in a moment or two. In


the meantime the front I will take that now, right Jonas,


nice trophy. I think you can play us out by telling us what the credits


were tonight. Yes, the presenter is of course Jeremy emPaxman. The


production team consists of it's, em, in order it is... I will give


awe clue clue, the first one is James Fray. Gemma Parks, and then


Jake Morris, and then it is let's see now. Max? It is Max... Davidson.


And then Hannah Razak, and then we have also Sam Ha CLSHGS k. Correct,


do you remember any more after that? I think so. We will be here all


night. We also have Lorraine Iganis. And Toby Keely. Shall we cut to the


chase the editor, the editor at the end? The editor that is of course as


usual Ian Katz.


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