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Nelson Mandela, the father of the South African nation has died. An | :00:10. | :00:18. | |
hour ago Jacob Zuma, the President of South Africa announced his death. | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
Our beloved Nelson Mandela, the founding President of our democratic | :00:25. | :00:34. | |
nation has departed. He passed on peacefully. Nelson Mandela was born | :00:35. | :00:42. | |
in 1918, almost a century ago. In 1963 he was sentenced for life | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
imprisonment for political offence, and spent 18 of his 27 years in | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
prison on Robben Island. There are many people who feel it is useless | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
and futile for us to continue to talk peace and nonviolence, against | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
a Government's whose reply is only savage attacks. On an unarmed and | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
defenceless people. He was released in 1990 and three years laterhand | :01:07. | :01:14. | |
and President De Klerk were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Manned voted | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
for the first time in his life and voted the first President of a | :01:19. | :01:32. | |
democratic South Africa. He was surely the most famous man in the | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
world, certainly the most respected, he was called the world's elder | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
statesman. Nelson Mandela, Madiba, his Khan name, has died at the age | :01:43. | :01:49. | |
of 95, surrounded by his family. Including his former wife and | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
present wife, and the President, Jacob Zuma, made the announcement | :01:54. | :02:09. | |
under an hour ago. Fellow South African under an hour ago. Fellow | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
South Africans our beloved Nelson Mandela, father of our democratic | :02:13. | :02:20. | |
nation has departed. He passed on peacefully in the company of his | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
family surround 20. 50, on the 5th of December. He is now resting, he | :02:28. | :02:48. | |
is now at peace. Our nation has lost its greatest son, our people have | :02:49. | :03:04. | |
lost a father. Although we knew that this day would come nothing can | :03:05. | :03:14. | |
diminish our sense of a profound and enduring loss. His tireless struggle | :03:15. | :03:25. | |
for freedom and him, the respect of the world. Jacob Zuma, we speak to | :03:26. | :03:34. | |
Johannesburg live now. It must be a profound atmosphere of sadness in | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
the country? That's right, that statement which you heard which came | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
just about an hour ago was preceded by a few hours of quite frenetic | :03:43. | :03:50. | |
activity around Nelson Mandela's home in Johannesburg. We saw cars | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
arriving, family members, some Government vehicles and about an | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
hour before the statement police vans, trying to set up a cordon to | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
keep whatever crowds might gather out. That certainly told people here | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
that something was up. Even though, of course, this announcement has | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
been expected for a very, very long time now, but then, of course, when | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
the announcement came I think none the less for South Africans it will | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
still be a shock. I think the key words there from Jacob Zuma that you | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
heard speaking in Pretoria Union Buildings were profound and enduring | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
sense of loss. He said that the nation had lost its greatest son and | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
that our people have lost a father, people here call Mr Mandela, | :04:37. | :04:47. | |
"Madiba" which is his clan name, or "tata" which is father. He was ill | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
for a very long time and he was 95, he was taken to hospital in June, | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
which was the third time this year. He spent three months At his trial, | :04:55. | :06:48. | |
which was the third time this year. Nelson Mandela closed his statement | :06:49. | :06:48. | |
from Nelson Mandela closed his statement | :06:49. | :07:07. | |
We have lost one of the only ideal he hoped | :07:08. | :07:37. | |
We have lost one of the only profoundly good human beings that | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
any of us will share time with. He not only belongs to us, he belongs | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
to the ages. Through his fierce dignity and unbending will to | :07:48. | :07:49. | |
sacrifice his own freedom for the freedom of others, Madiba transform | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
South Africa and moved all of us. His journey from a prisoner to a | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
President embodied the promise that human beings in countries can change | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
for the better. His commitment to transfer power and reconciled with | :08:08. | :08:14. | |
those who jailed him set an example that all humanity should aspire to. | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
President Obama. And we will bring you reaction from other worldly | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
goods as we get it. Let's go back to Gabriel. Although in 1999 he stood | :08:25. | :08:35. | |
down and handed over to Thabo Mbeki comity was very active in society, | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
huge force for reconciliation, very much a wise man. And indeed he took | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
us down on issues like and HIV against Sabo Mbeki. He did. He | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
remained a huge moral authority even after he left politics. Even after | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
he almost disappeared from public life altogether. And that is why I | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
think in part you will see such a huge reaction to his death tonight | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
and in the coming days. Even though he had not been seen in public for a | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
very long time, its very existence, the very knowledge of South Africans | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
that Madiba, as they called him, was still alive exercised power over | :09:18. | :09:28. | |
them, the vision of a country that could be better than it is. A | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
country that achieved so much against such terrible odds. Under | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
Nelson Mandela's leadership, the very fact of his continued existence | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
I think gay people hope they could still move forward, and further. -- | :09:42. | :09:51. | |
gave people hope. We joined now by a South African journalist who | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
reported the apartheid struggle and became close to Nelson Mandela. It | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
is a sad time but thank you for speaking to us tonight. You knew | :10:00. | :10:07. | |
Nelson Mandela as a young man and in fact you reported on his decision to | :10:08. | :10:22. | |
take up the armed struggle. I knew him first 35 years ago. I'll began | :10:23. | :10:30. | |
to see him as a journalist. There was debate about the papers that | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
black people carried. People had been arrested and there was a trial | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
in the basement of the courts. The magistrate closed the court. I said | :10:41. | :10:55. | |
you better not do this. And Nelson never forgot this, in the latest | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
years when I was in Robben Island and he -- he was in Robben Island | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
and I would be where I am, he would write to me and addressed to me by | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
name, he referred to this episode and the letter would be passed | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
person to person. Do you think when he organised that national workers' | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
strike, the three-day strike, and then carried on in that vein that he | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
knew it was very possible he would be in prison for a very long time? | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
Oh yeah, that was going back to those days, his commitment to | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
freedom, his self-sacrifice, this was a man, we're talking about the | :11:42. | :11:49. | |
end of the 1950s, 1960, although he was a leader in the of a anal | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
Congress, he had a bit of an image as play boy. He was very handsome, | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
well dressed, he was tall strapping man, he liked the laties and until | :11:59. | :12:06. | |
he settled down. He was a lawyer, only a handful in Johannesburg at | :12:07. | :12:13. | |
the time, when I saw him in prison I was the first non-family person to | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
be allowed to see him as a friend not as a journalist in the early | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
1980s. I had to give the Government an undertaking not to write it. It | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
was pretty hard for me as I was deputy editor of the Mail. The the | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
difference between what he was in 1960, and 1961 and what he was 20 | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
years ago, he was a different person. He matured, he had grown. I | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
had heard already through the grapevine that he had become the | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
natural leader on Robben Island, it wasn't just the of a | :12:49. | :12:59. | |
It wasn't just the African National Congress testifies all people. On | :13:00. | :13:07. | |
the telephone is the Archbishop of Canterbury. Good evening. Good | :13:08. | :13:15. | |
evening. Perhaps when people think of Nelson Mandela they think of his | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
enormous capacity for forgiveness? Yes, it is the most striking and | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
extraordinary thing, and the footage this evening reminds us of that | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
incredible gift of generosity and fness of spirit that is so unusual | :13:32. | :13:39. | |
and unique. Do you think it was an extraordinary spirit of character | :13:40. | :13:41. | |
that took him through 27 years, it is hard to imagine 27 years, 18 of | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
them on Robben Island, never faltering once? I think it is... I | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
think one is lost for words thinking of what the cost of that must have | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
been personally. And the inner struggle that there must have been | :13:58. | :14:05. | |
and where it ended with this great opening to accept all South Africans | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
and set an example of forgiveness which challenges everyone around the | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
world. There was a line from President Obama there, he was | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
quoting t he said "I have fought against white domination, I have | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
fought against black domination". He wanted such an inclusive South | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
Africa, didn't he? Yes, and the pattern that South Africa has | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
established and I know very well the present head of the Anglican Church | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
in South Africa and you see it in him, is of enormous inclusion. A | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
willingness to accept, if you like, a prejudice towards welcome and | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
hospitality, rather than shutting out and empty. D -- enmity. Striking | :14:51. | :14:58. | |
in his latter years that everyone in the world wanted to be photographed | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
with Nelson Mandela? Yes, it did seem to be the great fashion. But it | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
is more, it is the sense of the magic rubbing off, it is the inner | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
character that needs to rub off not the outer sign. So you think, so do | :15:13. | :15:20. | |
you think it is possible to be innately good, particularly good, | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
Benjamin was talking earlier about him being a handsome young man and | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
he loved going out, that it is possible to have an innate sense of | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
goodness? I think it is possible to deciding to the right way. Clearly | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
that's what happened with him. It must have been a huge inner struggle | :15:40. | :15:48. | |
to have got there. But he did so. Innate goodness, I don't know about | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
innate goodness, I think there is innate decision, clear inward | :15:54. | :15:55. | |
decisions that certain things are right and certain things are wrong. | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
Latterly, of course, although he had withdrawn to a certain extent to | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
public life, his influence in South Africa was still as strong? | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
Everything, every South African that I have come across in recent years | :16:10. | :16:17. | |
saw him as the beacon by which one set one's course in life, if you | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
wanted to do the right thing. Yes, he is one of the great lights of the | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
world and it has gone out this evening. We can see now Imams of | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
people in South Africa sitting I think perhaps near Nelson Mandela's | :16:33. | :16:42. | |
house and the families inside in terms of the people his current wife | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
and his former wife and surviving children. Nelson Mandela is to be | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
buried in the little village in the Eastern Cape which he chose as his | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
final resting place, it is a region that has a special importance in | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
Mandela's remarkable history. He was born near here, it was here he | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
learned many of the lessons and skills that would be crucial to him | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
as a politician. In the first part of a special Newsnight obituary, we | :17:08. | :17:20. | |
report on his early life and struggle against apartheid. Nelson | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
Mandela was born on July 18th 1918, out on the hills in a hut that used | :17:25. | :17:33. | |
to stall here as part of a corral in the village. It is a remote part of | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
South Africa that he always regarded as his true home. Here, even as a | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
boy, he showed a singleminded determination and would fight for | :17:43. | :17:49. | |
what he believed to be right. His father was a local chief and | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
grandson of the king of the Tembu people, who controlled the area down | :17:55. | :18:08. | |
to the Bashi River. It is a part of the world where people uphold the | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
old tradition, these women celebrate the circumcision, these men who have | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
par taken in the ritual are held in he is collision, as Mandela was when | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
he took part in this ritual. Outside there is a demonstration of stick | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
fighting, in which opponents spar and parry with clubs made from hard | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
thorn wood. A rural sport at which the young Mandela also excelled. His | :18:36. | :18:44. | |
childhood friend, Maxim Bombatu remembers him as a man who didn't | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
like to lose. Mandela was brought up here in the | :18:49. | :19:09. | |
little village of Kunu, where he would herd cattle and sheep. After | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
his father died he moved to the court of the acting Tembu king, the | :19:13. | :19:19. | |
regent. A leader, the regent told him, is like a shepherd, he stays | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
behind the flock, letting the most nimble go on ahead, whereupon the | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
others follow, not realised all the along they are being dictated to | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
from behind. It was a lesson he would never forget. In 1941 at the | :19:34. | :19:42. | |
age of 23, Nelson Mandela moved to Johannesburg to escape from a | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
marriage arranged by the regent. Here he studied law, became involved | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
in politics and threw himself into city living. There was no equality | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
between black and white, but there was a vibrant black cultural and | :19:58. | :20:05. | |
music scene. And Mandela developed into a confident man about town and | :20:06. | :20:12. | |
a sharp dresser. The stick fighter became a boxer, learning when to | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
dodge and when to attack. Skills that would prove crucial for a | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
political leader. He cared enormously about his appearance, | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
ands you know he was also a fairly good boxer. So he looked after his | :20:30. | :20:36. | |
body and the ladies had an eye for hem and he had for them too. In 1944 | :20:37. | :20:46. | |
he married a nurse, Evelyn Masi, there would be little time for | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
family life. For the same year he joined the Executive Committee of | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
the new youth league of the ANC, pledged to fight for black rights. | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
Also on the executive Oliver Tambo, a friend from school days, with whom | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
Mandela would start a ground-breaking African law firm. | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
Mandela and Tambu operated from this building, Chancellor House in town | :21:13. | :21:21. | |
Johannesburg, it was the centre of resistance. They became attorneys | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
for a host of black clients. Practically everybody wanted to be | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
defended by him. Because he had so much work and he briefed counsel, | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
young counsel like me to go and, if I turned up and said I was | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
instructed by Mr Mandela the clients were ed that he was not there to do | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
the case himself. He was always a very stylish figure in court? Oh | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
yeah, absolutely, no doubt about it, he was, he was, he was the centre of | :21:54. | :22:01. | |
the stage. But life for black South African was getting worse, as the | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
Africana National Party enforced an ever-more stringent policy of | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
apartheid, separateness. Today the memory of apartheid is kept alive in | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
a Johannesburg museum. Everyone was classified by race, with different | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
races forced to live in different areas. Black South Africans had to | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
carry pass-books or face arrest. ANC leaders like Mandela who called for | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
democratic, multiracial South Africa, were harassed, banned from | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
attending meetings and arrested. He was now on the ANC national | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
executive, by 1958 he had divorced Evelyn and remarried to Winnie, with | :22:39. | :22:46. | |
even less time for his family. The recollections of my dad when I was | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
young of a father who was there but never there. You know he was never | :22:53. | :23:01. | |
around the home. So how do you balance the politics and the family | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
life? Did he balance them, I don't know that, I don't know that he was | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
able to maintain that kind of balance. By 1960 the situation had | :23:14. | :23:26. | |
become even more critical. An anti-pass law in sharpsville became | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
a massacre when the police shot many people dead. Manied had -- manied | :23:34. | :23:41. | |
went underground to think. Many people think it is futile for us to | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
continue to talk peaceful resistance, against a Government | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
whose only reply is savage attacks against an unarmed and defenceless | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
people. An ANC sabotage campaign began with Mandela in charge. As | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
leader of the underground army, Spear of the Nation, he became the | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
most wanted man in South Africa. He secretly left for Britain before his | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
arrest in 1962. He was earlier acquitted for treats son, in | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
Pretoria he and other senior ANC leaders faced charges that they | :24:17. | :24:18. | |
plotted and engineered the commission of acts of violence and | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
destruction throughout the country. Defiant as ever he appeared in court | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
in tribal dress. He expected to be hanged, as were so many of those who | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
continued the struggle and from the dock he delivered one of the most | :24:33. | :24:34. | |
powerful speeches of his life. Mandela was found guilty, but his | :24:35. | :25:33. | |
life was spared. He and seven other colleagues were sentenced to life | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
imprisonment and sent to the bleak jail on Robben Island off the coast | :25:38. | :25:45. | |
of Cape Town. Mandela would remain here for 18 years, held in this cell | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
in the isolation block, at first with only a straw mat to sleep on. | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
From the start he acted like a leader, not a prisoner. He put his | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
hands through the bars and he shook my hand and said he was very pleased | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
to meet you, and I said I'm pleased to meet you, I said tell me about | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
the conditions here. The head warder was with us and yet Mandela had no | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
hesitation in telling me exactly what they were complaining of. He | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
was brought by no less than eight warders. And said that, George you | :26:23. | :26:30. | |
know this place has really made me forget my good manners, I must | :26:31. | :26:37. | |
introduce you to my guard of honour. He proceeded to introduce me to each | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
one of them by first name and surname. And you know prisoners | :26:43. | :26:49. | |
generally speak this and don't set the pace at which the group walks, | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
it is the warders. But here it was quite clear that the pace was almost | :26:56. | :27:02. | |
a regular gall one, and it was being set by Nelson Mandela. How did the | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
guards react to that? They were shocked. In January 1965 Nelson | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
Mandela and the other political prisoners were first brought here | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
and forced to hack away at the rocks of the Robben Island lime quarry. | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
Forced labour that would continue for the next 13 years. For the first | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
three years Mandela was not even allowed to wear dark glass, despite | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
the blinding glare from the rocks. His eyesight never fully recovered. | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
Mandela became the prisoners' leader and spokesman. Together they turned | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
this prison island into a political workshop. He was, at least being | :27:43. | :27:49. | |
held alongside old friends and ANC colleagues, like Walter Sasulu, | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
together they discussed strategy for the outside world. Visits from his | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
wife Winnie were a lifeline for man who put his struggle above his own | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
life. Even his fellow prisoners found him inscrutable. He doesn't | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
easily show emotion. When his mother died when we were in jail, And his | :28:13. | :28:24. | |
son was killed while we were in there in an accident, he never | :28:25. | :28:32. | |
showed emotion. His closest friend Walter was there and he could see | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
this man has taken it badly and went to console him. But as far as the | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
rest of us were concerned, he never, ever allowed his personal concerns | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
to override what he considered to be his duty towards us, the fellow | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
prisoners. Eventually change would come. In 1982 Mandela was | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
transferred to the prison on the mainland. He was offered his freedom | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
provided he gave up violence unconditionally. He refused. Instead | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
he started solo negotiations with the apartheid Government, deciding | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
there are times when a leader must move ahead of the flock. Six years | :29:13. | :29:18. | |
later he was moved again, now to a house of his own, though still | :29:19. | :29:27. | |
within a prison complex. He had garden, a pool and even a cook to | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
make him fish cakes for breakfast. Here for 14 months he conducted | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
crucial negotiations with the Governments of first PW both that | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
and FW de Klerk, to the concern of some colleagues. The rumours spread | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
in the country and reached our people outside, and the rumour is | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
Mandela is selling out. He's talking to the chaps for his own benefit, | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
he's selling out the struggle. But Mandela was aware that the apartheid | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
Government was under increasing pressure. free There was an upsurge | :30:01. | :30:40. | |
in the ANC's own armed struggle while pressure from outside included | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
sanctions by a mass campaign to free prisoners. There was a mass pop | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
concert against apartheid, the aim to ensure his global image was now | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
that of a global leader now in prison. The message reached a quite | :30:59. | :31:08. | |
extraordinary television audience, estimated at 500 million people in | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
67 countries, far more than Live Aid, and reinforced by songs | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
including an international hit anthem. | :31:18. | :31:27. | |
# Free Nelson Mandela # Free Nelson Mandela ??FORCEDWHI | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
Music can put across the emotional side of the message, you know. | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
Politicians can talk forever and the sadness of the whole situation, | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
that's what I tried to put into the song. Less than two years larks on | :31:42. | :31:49. | |
February 11th 1990, Nelson Mandela, now the world's best known political | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
prisoner was freed on his own terms. He walked out of the prison, hand in | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
hand with his wife Winnie in one of the great theatrical, emotional | :32:00. | :32:06. | |
moments of contemporary history. The Prime Minister, David Cameron, | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
has just spoken in Downing Street. Tonight, one of the brightest lights | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
of our world has gone out. Nelson Mandela was not just a hero of our | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
time, but a hero of all time. The first President of a free South | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
Africa, a man who suffered so much for freedom and justice, and a man | :32:29. | :32:36. | |
who threw his dignity -- through his dignity and triumph inspired | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
millions. Joining from down the line in Birmingham and England the | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
Reverend Jesse Jackson, and the South Africa editor of the Economist | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
and now the director of the Royal African Society. First of all, Mr | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
Jackson, he had been ill for a very long time, but the passing of Nelson | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
Mandela still comes as a shock? It is still traumatising, his release | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
took us to unbelievable heights of joy and the release of his spirit | :33:08. | :33:14. | |
takes to deep depths of pain and sorrow as we think about him being a | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
suffering servant who used the power of his presence and persona to bring | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
down the very violent walls of apartheid. The most critical moment | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
he chose reconciliation over retribution. That may be the pivitol | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
point. He could have with one wave of his finger sent South Africa into | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
a bitter, bloody devisive fight. He chose to get ahead rather than to | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
get even. Do you remember as a young man, was he an inspiring figure to | :33:42. | :33:48. | |
you? He was that. Because in the, not the king and Nelson Mandela, in | :33:49. | :34:04. | |
1963, Dr King references his speech and realised how difficult that | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
battle would be. We kept on pulling and people like Randall Robinson and | :34:08. | :34:14. | |
Mary Berry and others, we were arrested every day for a year in | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
front of the South African embassy, with heightened American and western | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
consciousness to a new level. And finally the US Government chose to | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
engage in sanctions against South Africa. We could not get Britain and | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
Mrs Thatcher to take that position, in the end it was clear that the | :34:29. | :34:36. | |
side of history was tilting towards Mr Mandela and he would be released | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
and let out of jail. When he was let out of jail he had the good judgment | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
to engage in a new process politically rather than an old | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
process militarily that would have been so bloody. Going back, because | :34:48. | :34:54. | |
you followed Nelson Mandela and you followed that struggle, and Walter | :34:55. | :35:02. | |
Sazulu was mentioned earlier, that group around Nelson Mandela was so | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
important to him? With Walter and Ahmed and Kathrada, this small group | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
that had all gone in at the same time and thought they would never | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
come out. They realised, one of the things they realised was they had | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
time. There Mandela really changes when he's in jail with these other | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
people. But although they were still a very strong group, he then went | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
off on his own and began to talk to the Government. That's the | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
extraordinary thing, because that was the thing that would never, they | :35:36. | :35:42. | |
would never agree to. And he did it without their permission. Your own | :35:43. | :35:49. | |
experience of Nelson Mandela, Mr Jackson, when did you meet him? In | :35:50. | :35:57. | |
190, I was one of the -- I was one of the first people to meet him out | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
of prison. I remember him coming to New York on his first tour and he | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
was in an interview and they said you are visiting nation that is are | :36:09. | :36:18. | |
anathema to America, he said you can't choose my friends they helped | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
me get free. He never stopped reaching out to the third world | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
outcast nations to bring them to untent. And many of the politicians | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
today still have those same nations as outcast, he never gave up on | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
trying to create one big world. You heard one of his older daughters | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
saying his old life was a struggle and that he didn't have, obviously | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
he was away for so long, he didn't have much of a family life. But when | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
he came out there was a rejuvenation in that, and the wonderful marriage | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
he had to his wife? 27 years of that kind of family separation, weighed | :36:55. | :37:01. | |
heavily. I shall never forget one of my last conversations with him a | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
couple of years ago, when they arrested him at the farm, they were | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
planning that week to bomb, they had been bombing installations, they | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
were going to bomb a hospital and a school perhaps the next week, they | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
thought all efforts were futile. He said he actually was glad that they | :37:18. | :37:20. | |
caught him and jailed him rather than allow him to in fact kill | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
innocent people. He did not want the bloodshed on his hands. He chose in | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
the end, he looked inside and had suffered for 27 years years and | :37:31. | :37:40. | |
killed innocent people. After the office as President, he was a huge | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
force for reconciliation for South Africa, and also a firm voice when | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
he didn't like the things happening in South Africa? He made it very | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
clear not just for South Africa but for all of Africa about DMOKising | :37:51. | :38:00. | |
those developments democratising Governments. He could have been the | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
President until tonight, after two terms he left and engaged in a | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
political process, and succeeded Mbeki and Zuma, and also that is an | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
example of having an ordinary organised effort of transition. I | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
cannot help that had been a divided country based on bloodshed, it would | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
have been a weak country, the strongest country in Africa and | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
South Africa in no small measure it is stronger because of his legacy. | :38:30. | :38:36. | |
You also saw him use his lawyerly skills when it came to the | :38:37. | :38:54. | |
elections? I saw him at a Qazulu at the start of the election. The chief | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
said he would not take part which meant the whole nation would not | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
vote. He went into the heartland and if he was going to get assassinated | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
it would happen there. He made the extraordinary speech saying the king | :39:08. | :39:15. | |
of the Zulus was his father. Because he was a chief, but he also was his | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
son because he was adviser to his father, so he played this game and | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
he said, he was basically saying come in and vote on this election. | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
And I remember this because he came up, it was in a soccer field and | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
there was a sort of wooden podium and by chance, I got caught at the | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
top of the steps and Mandela came up and I was standing there at the top | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
of the steps and he came up and I was obviously in the wrong place at | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
the wrong time he put out his hand and said good afternoon, my name is | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
Nelson Mandela, about to make the most dangerous speech of that whole | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
election campaign. Mr Jackson? We must not forget that the men of the | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
cape of South Africa part of the broader coalition did not vote for | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
him in that first election. They feared they could not reconcile with | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
blacks in Soweto, and yet he was able to reconcile those forces to | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
ensure them that it would be a commitment not to tribalism but | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
mutual security and wholesome democracy. Just finally, one | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
imagines that his funeral and we were saying this a little while ago, | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
his funeral will be one of the very big events of this period of the | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
21st century. Well the lease of his body was the big -- the release of | :40:33. | :40:39. | |
his body was the one of the biggest events the world has ever known and | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
the release of his spirit may be the same. This was truly a force for | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
good and the world has embraced him now even as it did in life. Thank | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
you very much indeed. 27 years in jail would destroy many men but for | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
Mandela, as we have been hearing, the years of suffering pray | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
preparation, for once he left prison a free man at last he would be asked | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
to play a crucial role in surely the most dangerous and critical period | :41:05. | :41:13. | |
of his country's history. Once Nelson Mandela was free, | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
celebrations rapidly gave way to hard politics. Those who expected | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
him to be bitter were quickly disabused. He managed to disarm his | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
old enemies, the Africanas of the National Party, with his rare blend | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
of toughest and understanding. I will never forget the first meeting | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
with the ANC, and he was given the first opportunity to speak by Mr De | :41:38. | :41:45. | |
Klerk. He obviously made a very, very study of the Africans history, | :41:46. | :41:53. | |
our history, I'm an Africana, he knew it better than most of us, he | :41:54. | :42:00. | |
came forward with his thesis, saying that what he could not understand | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
was that here was a people who suffered at the hands of the | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
British, and what he could not understand is why we could not see | :42:10. | :42:17. | |
the same misery and order of things amongst the blacks. But when | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
negotiation began in ernest, and De Klerk attacked Mandela for not | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
disbanding his guerrilla fighters, he furiously hit back. What | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
political organisation could hand over its weapons to the same men -- | :42:32. | :42:40. | |
man regarded as killing innocent people. He had proved to black South | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
Africans that he had not sold out. That one speech wiped the record | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
clear. In the country people were driving around, there were people | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
stopping and flashing their lights. In Soweto they were in the streets | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
shouting and hailing what had happened. That was the turning point | :43:00. | :43:07. | |
for the black institutes. These were dangerous days for South Africa, | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
NENTs of majority -- opponents of majority rule or ANC rule | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
threatening to make the country unglovable. There were violent | :43:18. | :43:26. | |
clashes between ANC supporters and the Zulu chief Freedom Party. And | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
even fears of Civil War when white extremists threatened to fight for | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
their own state. Mandela's greatest challenge as a peace maker came in | :43:38. | :43:45. | |
April 1983. Chris Harney, communist leader, and arguably the country's | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
second-most popular black politician was murdered by a white extremist. | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
Black South Africa erupted in fury. It seemed the country to be torn | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
apart by race riots, but Mandela diffused the situation by explaining | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
how the assassin had been caught, thanks to the actions of a white | :44:05. | :44:11. | |
woman, an Africana. We have never been closer to catastrophe, and the | :44:12. | :44:20. | |
bloodbath that people had been predicting was going to be our lot, | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
that we were going to have been overwhelmed, we would have been | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
overwhelmed. It was Mandela personally who averted that | :44:32. | :44:46. | |
catastrophe? His contribution was critical. Nelson Mandela prevailed, | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
on April 27th 1994, South African held its first truly democratic | :44:52. | :45:04. | |
election In May he was sworn in as the country's first black President. | :45:05. | :45:20. | |
I, Nelson Mandela do here by pledge to be faithful to the Republic of | :45:21. | :45:28. | |
South Africa. His new Government of National Unity had a former white | :45:29. | :45:35. | |
South African politician. We made a terrible mistake, I blame myself and | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
our colleagues, and I blame our security personnel. We had such a | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
phobia or mania about communism. And a threat of communism. It was real | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
at the time, it was real at the time, even the Americans thought the | :45:52. | :46:02. | |
same. That some how we would just be blind. As President, Mandela's | :46:03. | :46:11. | |
public image was that of a cheerleader for the new rainbow | :46:12. | :46:22. | |
nation. He amazed and delighted Afrikaneres by wearing a new | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
springbok rugby shirt. Businessmen too fell under his spell as he | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
persuaded them he was certainly no communist and they should invest in | :46:31. | :46:44. | |
the new South Africa. And Cape Town tourists travelled to Robben Island | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
through the Nelson Mandela Gateway, one of thousands of buildings and | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
roads named after him in South Africa and across the world. At the | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
bookshop one of his former prison guards sold Mandela momentos. He was | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
that rarity of statesman who seemed to connect with everyone, from | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
politicians to models. But his daughter saw a different side. For | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
the 27 years for him to survive he had to actually blanche his feelings | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
and emotion and become very intellectual and rational person. So | :47:22. | :47:28. | |
he doesn't, and I say this, he doesn't easily connect you know. He | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
will say to me, he goes out there and has this connection with the | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
people and he holds the babies. That is one person, but when he comes to | :47:37. | :47:43. | |
very close and very intimate there is always the distance. There is | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
always the distance. For Nelson Mandela public triumph was matched | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
by private tragedy. His second wife Winnie had campaigned tirelessly for | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
his release and harassed by the authorities. She became increasingly | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
militant and was seen first as beyond ANC control and then as a | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
liability after being convicted of kidnapping, the marriage collapsed. | :48:10. | :48:18. | |
He really loved her. You know, he was almost like have you seen a | :48:19. | :48:26. | |
puppy when it follows with its eyes the master or mistress it loves. He | :48:27. | :48:36. | |
was something like that. I mean you saw the adoration. It is one of the | :48:37. | :48:45. | |
most traumatic things ever to have happened to him. On his 80th | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
birthday Nelson Mandela married for the third time, to the widow of the | :48:53. | :49:00. | |
former President of Mozambique. Leadership is a lonely journey, very | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
rarely do we have people who are really true loyal people around you, | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
people tell you things you want to hear most of the time. I think that | :49:11. | :49:17. | |
he needed a companion. I think he found one in Grace, and she has been | :49:18. | :49:25. | |
really very instrumental in, and I give him a lot of credit for | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
bringing this divided family together. Mandela stepped down as | :49:31. | :49:39. | |
President in 1999 to make way for Thabo Mbeki, he remained an astute | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
politician. Charming a British television audience with his dancing | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
in 2001. He also attended a concert in his honour in London's Trafalgar | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
Square. He was accompanied by Tony Blair, whom he would later furiously | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
criticise over the Iraq War. He became involved in education | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
projects, conflict mediation and a campaign to fight HIV AIDS. It is | :50:07. | :51:50. | |
the chosen final resting place for an extraordinary politician who was | :51:51. | :51:57. | |
admired. Against all odds it is a man who tried to make life better | :51:58. | :52:04. | |
for you and me and for humanity. He will live not only in South Africa, | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
and Africa, but the world at large, and one can say how and when can we | :52:10. | :52:26. | |
find the man like him. A man who held a nation together and made it | :52:27. | :52:40. | |
proud. Made them believe, hey, it is possible for enemies to become | :52:41. | :52:52. | |
friends. Nelson Mandela will be remembered as one of the great | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
fighters idealists and statesmen of Africa and of the world. We can go | :52:58. | :53:06. | |
now to pictures from where Nelson Mandela used to live, people dancing | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
and standing near his house, and we also know, of course, that there are | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
a number of people gathered at his home in Johannesburg where the | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
surviving children and indeed his wife and former wife are earlier | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
this evening and I believe still to be there. Those are the pictures | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
from Houghton in South Africa, we can go and speak to the Vice | :53:29. | :53:37. | |
Chancellor of the Rand University. Good evening. Tell me, what | :53:38. | :53:45. | |
difference do you think there will be in South Africa now that Nelson | :53:46. | :53:51. | |
Mandela is not there in a way as a guiding force? I think it is worth | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
bearing in mind that Nelson Mandela, this is a very poignant and sad | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
moment, but I also think that Nelson Mandela's passing is the passing of | :53:58. | :54:03. | |
the last of a generation of ANC leaders unsullied by the trappings | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
of power. He was, if you like, a unifying figure, and in the days | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
that move on I suspect that for the short-term he will unify South | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
Africa like no-one else has. If you think of the World Cup, think about | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
it a thousand-times more where South Africans of all types, classes and | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
races will unite in his memory. In the long-term, I think, he is no | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
longer the asset that the ANC would have had. He was a unifying figure. | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
, he could rally support for the ANC like no-one could, that is no longer | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
going to be available to the ANC. Do you think that actually will have a | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
detrimental impact on the country? I think in the long-term it will, in | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
the short-term it will galvanise support for the ANC, in the | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
long-term I think it is worth bearing in mind that he will no | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
longer be available as an asset for the ANC. For those in worried about | :54:58. | :55:05. | |
South Africa fracturing, that is far from happening. South Africa for all | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
of its weaknesses and changes around inequality and poverty it is a very | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
stable, politically stable society. It does have fissures and fractures, | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
it is worth bearing in mind that Nelson Mandela established a very, | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
very sound foundation, a foundation that is institutionally structured. | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
They have a judicial system, parliament and courts. While there | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
are challenges like many other places, it will continue as a stable | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
society. He hasn't been politically active for at least four or five | :55:40. | :55:42. | |
years. He was, as you said, a guiding hand, probably his memory | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
will continue to do that. He will be what Lincoln was to the United | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
States, what many other, what Gandhi is to India, Nelson Mandela will be | :55:51. | :55:57. | |
that and more to South Africa. As an educationalist, one of the things he | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
was so keen to do was transform education in South Africa, just | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
explain to us how that happened. How different it looks now in terms of | :56:05. | :56:17. | |
education? He was probably the most prominent iluminist. President, he | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
spent a number of years there, a number of his fellow comrates and | :56:22. | :56:29. | |
colleagues are -- comrades and colleagues were there. Else always | :56:30. | :56:36. | |
committed to this. We have done fairly well with the access to | :56:37. | :56:44. | |
schools. We have 96-94% access to school. It is the quality of | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
schooling when they get there is not that great. We lose 50% of the | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
people in the next ten years, and only 250,000 people will come out of | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
1. 2 million people who enter the system in grade 1. That is an | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
enormous wastage of human talent. At the high education level South | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
Africa the numbers have completely doubled. Its higher education system | :57:09. | :57:16. | |
is completely deracialised. It is a mixed record, there is a partial | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
success but there are significant weaknesses that needs to be | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
transcended. Thank you very much for joining u with the He willeders are | :57:25. | :57:33. | |
an -- Elder are a group of officials to work on human rights. It is | :57:34. | :57:42. | |
chaired by Kofi Annan And many others are part of it. Sir Richard | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
Branson is part of it. How did Nelson Mandela play his part in your | :57:48. | :57:55. | |
group? He was critical, he and his wife were the founding elders, he | :57:56. | :58:03. | |
felt he wanted his legacy to live on through 12 wonderful men and women | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
who have high moral authority and who could speak out on issues in the | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
world, and also get out in the world and try to resolve conflicts. In the | :58:12. | :58:28. | |
early days he was very involved but not so much in the later days. His | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
wonderful wife, the other founding member, will now get very much | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
involved more with the elders and make sure it will carry on in his | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
name. Enyou encountered him and had conversations with him, I imagine he | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
actually had quite a wicked sense of humour? A wonderful sense of humour, | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
and you know he was always dancing, he would sing, he would pull in the | :58:57. | :59:06. | |
cleaning lady and you know. And that was despite the fact that his knees | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
were wrecked from 27 years of breaking stones in a jail. So you | :59:11. | :59:18. | |
know, so, yeah, a wonderful sense of humour. But also when he was | :59:19. | :59:23. | |
actually President he would do some extraordinary things. I once got a | :59:24. | :59:28. | |
call when I was in the bath in England and was told that Mandela | :59:29. | :59:35. | |
was on the phone. He said that a chain of health clubs had gone | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
bankrupt, and would I get on the next plane to come and rescue the | :59:40. | :59:46. | |
5,000 employees. Did you? I did, and we have now got the biggest health | :59:47. | :59:51. | |
club chain in South Africa and employing 20,000 people, Virgin | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
Active in South Africa. So all the time he was trying to see how he | :59:57. | :00:02. | |
could help others in some way or another. That must have been a | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
wonderful knack, because presumably nobody could refuse him anything? | :00:07. | :00:13. | |
Yes, I mean having lunch with him once and I thought I had got away | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
with it, because any lunch you had with Nelson Mandela was expensive, | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
because he was always having a charity there to try to raise money | :00:24. | :00:26. | |
for. And I got right through to the last course and then he turned to me | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
and said, last week I had lunch with Bill Gates he gave me $50 million, | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
and I knew I was in trouble. Thank you very much, delighted now to be | :00:39. | :00:46. | |
joined by the MP David Lamie and the chaplain to the House of Commons and | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
the first black woman to hold the post. First of all both of you | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
growing up knowing about Nelson Mandela, how important was it to | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
black people to have somebody like Mandela, David? In the context of | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
this country black people are arriving from the Caribbean, Africa, | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
south Asia, they have been emancipated if you like. Escaped | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
their colonial master, but there are issues in the inner city in Britain, | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
certainly through the 70s and 80s, we are getting riots and a lot of | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
depression in black communities, so the fact of Mandela being in prison, | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
and of course we can't see him, you don't see him for 27 years an | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
intense emotion in the black community. And when he comes out in | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
1990 for so many of us, I grew up without a father and I remember his | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
poster on my bedroom wall. Him and Bill Cosby, my proxy father figure! | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
Just the tears and the emotion that something different might be | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
possible. Relative to your life in a very isolated community for me in | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
Tottenham. Relative to your parents' lives and what they have seen in | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
relation to Guyana or Nigeria, but this moment when the world finally | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
turns its back on this terrible apartheid system that of course | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
Martin Luthur king had gotten rid in in America. What did you think? The | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
first thing I want to say is the world has lost a true son in Nelson | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
Mandela's passing. Growing up in Jamaica and in the education system | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
there we are taught about our national heros. In a sense they have | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
done marvellous things but they were in books. They weren't sort of real, | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
they were real but not real. Nelson Mandela was real and so there was a | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
sense of hope that here was someone who today, not hundreds of years or | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
so many years back and on a poster, but here was someone who was real, | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
who was fighting the dehumanisation of a people and not just any people | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
but a people who looked like me. That was amazing. And the fact that | :03:05. | :03:12. | |
he was just such a huge inspiration, a huge incompetence pier racial to | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
us growing up. And even now on his release from prison, that day when | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
he was released I was rotted in that -- rooted in that lounge, nothing | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
was going to move me from there. I don't know all the words but I sang | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
the South African anthem. I cried, I prayed, I sang. I danced, it was | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
real. What about him as a model though. We talked. Much earlier | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
about the enormous capacity for forgiveness? He obviously stands | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
with Gandhi, Martin Luthur king, before them Abraham Lincoln, the | :03:53. | :04:06. | |
difference is they were killed. He lives, he is that great hope that | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
lives, and he governed his country and does it with peace and | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
reconciliation. He demonstrates you can get justice but justice through | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
peace. He stands then as the biggest figure of the 21st century. If you | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
like Adolf Hitler was the worst figure of the 21st century, Mandela | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
is the absolute contrast. This is a huge moment, a huge moment at the | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
turn of the 21st century. His passing will not just be felt in | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
South Africa, I'm getting emotional thinking about it too. It will be | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
felt here greatly. I just hope and pray that the generosity of spirit | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
that we saw in him, the spirit of justice and fairness and honesty, | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
and all those things, that we will see that in all our leaders around | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
the world. When did you see him? I think I first saw him in Parliament | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
Square as a young MP, when he came to, we opened the statue for him in | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
Parliament Square. And then a bit later there was a concert in Hyde | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
Park and I saw him again. Don't ask me what I said because I could | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
barely speak, he was this magnificent big figure, even as an | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
elder man. He met Mrs Thatcher and did lots of things. There wasn't | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
anybody he wouldn't meet. That was what people were saying earlier. | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
Actually don't you choose my friends for me said Jesse Jackson, he said | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
he would speak to whatever he wished after going to jail? I want to say | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
as a Labour politician people like Frank Dobson and Dick Hayburn caught | :05:56. | :06:03. | |
up in the antiapartheid movement, were real foot soldiers for Oliver | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
Tambo, there were a Kenship for a whole generation of Labour | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
politicians and the union movement, in huge solidarity with South Africa | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
when others didn't want to even join the cause. I think it is important | :06:19. | :06:27. | |
to remember that tonight a real struggle breaking out in society | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
with songs and albums and a youth movement. But if we think back to | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
the 1980s at moments in Britain when we felt divided, there were many | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
foot olders campaigning and raising money in the Labour Party, and also | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
in wider society, the churches, who tonight will feel close to Mandela | :06:47. | :06:57. | |
because of the struggle. I called him a giant of a man, a peaceful and | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
loving gianted. There are so many towns all over Britain who have | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
Mandela Square or buildings, it is somebody that you come across, | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
children know about him. Oh yes, we do. And not only did we sing the | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
songs # Free Nelson Mandela | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
We actually lived with the sense of hope, almost like a Messiah figure, | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
in a sense, but not a distant one, one that was present and one that | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
was real. I think for me, as a Christian, this sense of | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
forgiveness, which is at the heart. I visited Robben Island back in | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
2002, I think it was, I went to Robben Island and actually went | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
inside the cell. The whole time I was there, for me it was a spiritual | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
experience, and I remember there were tourists there taking | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
photographs and I was feeling quite cross saying, you know the story of | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
Moses by the burning bush, where he is told to stake his shoes off | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
because he as standing on holy ground. I felt myself thinking stop | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
taking the photographs, you are on holy ground, you know. I just hope | :08:14. | :08:23. | |
that the world will look at Nelson Mandela's life and will pattern | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
those qualities that he exhibited. That sense of dignity, of quiet | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
dignity, not many people have that. No, and in that sense he was a | :08:37. | :08:51. | |
humble, but regal figure in a sense. All generations have these figures. | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
But I think Nelson Mandela crossed so many generations from lawyer to | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
freedom fighter, imprisoned, we don't see him for 27 years, we just | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
have that poster of him and he comes out as a much older man, that moved | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
lots of people. And then when you talk about buildings named after him | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
often that was an act of rebellion in Britain in the 1970s to do that. | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
Then this universal statesman-like figure that has emerged in the last | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
20 years or so. That is a huge span of change over that lifetime, | :09:29. | :09:36. | |
dignity throughout, but a rage and anger for freedom, for justice and | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
for peace, I think is essential to the man's personality. That whole | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
idea that he made such a massive sacrifice, and his family made a | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
sacrifice? A huge sack fireworks I listened earlier to his -- | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
sacrifice, I listened earlier to his daughter speaking and the sense of | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
distance she was talking about. I thought what do you expect, you have | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
locked this man away, emotions, all these things. The sacrifice he has | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
made, the sacrifice of his family, for the world. He comes out of | :10:09. | :10:24. | |
prison and straight into the world? Where does he get the time to love. | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
I just hope not only South Africa but the world will see his sense of | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
justice, his sense of compassion, and clearly even for a very long | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
time when he is not the leader of South Africa, he's still concerned | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
about the well being of people. As we have said earlier, and is | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
prepared to stand up and discuss things that he absolutely disagrees | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
with in South Africa. Challenges the status quo, whether Thabo Mbeki or | :10:53. | :11:03. | |
the problems in the ANC? On HIV, domestically on the ANC, on the Iraq | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
War, on a whole range of things he took very different views to other | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
leaders both in his country and throughout. I think lining up behind | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
what he saw as social justice wherever he found it. And this idea | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
that he would be remembered, there would be this enormous outpouring | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
from all over the world, and then South Africa needs to move on again. | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
Yes, and South Africa is at a critical junction, because I was | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
there about a year ago and the ANC has to make this transition from the | :11:38. | :11:45. | |
party that fought, if you like for freedom to a governing force that | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
can be seen to be there for everyone and not just for a single group of | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
people. There are elements particularly youth and younger | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
elements I think within South Africa and within the ANC that are | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
frustrated with the lack of progress. And also in a sense moving | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
from being a one-party state to a multiparty democracy, that is very | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
fragile. This may in a sense, because it rekick-starting this idea | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
of goodness coming out of this in South Africa? I hope it will, I hope | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
it will, and the potential is there for life to grow from this death as | :12:24. | :12:33. | |
it were. I hope that we will see the beginnings of other Mandelas. I was | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
going to say because actually what he has is he's almost delivered a | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
blueprint for modern leadership? It is quite a lot to live up to. I | :12:44. | :12:54. | |
think leadership, yes, but 27 years in prison, denied that life is an | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
extraordinary sacrifice to have made as an individual. No-one can relief | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
that, and we don't want anyone to relief that, so in a sense -- relive | :13:05. | :13:13. | |
that, and in a sense that is part of the 21 century for freedom. It is | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
for women, people of colour, more latterly for gay men and women to | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
self-lateralise to be who you want to be, and he's one of the big | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
fathers of that fight. We take it for granted now, but for most of the | :13:29. | :13:38. | |
century it was denied us. It must be also for white people, it must be a | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
huge burden to walk around thinking you are the only thing that matters! | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
You know. So, yes. Will you be doing special service tomorrow, presumably | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
parishioners will come and talk to you? I hope that we will not just | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
tomorrow, but for some time, you know, helping people to reflect on | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
this loss in a way that is going to be constructive and creative. Again, | :14:03. | :14:10. | |
an extraordinary funeral, he wants and will be buried in a small | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
village. It is impossible to imagine not to have some massive memorial | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
service for him? Absolutely, you would expect a freedom and justice | :14:19. | :15:41. | |
Nelson Mandela was not just a hero of our time but a hero of all time. | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
The first President of a free South Africa. My thoughts and prayers are | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
with him and his family at this time, an extraordinary man. I'm one | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
of the countless millions who drew inspiration from Nelson Mandela's | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
life. My very first political action, the first thing I ever did | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
that involved an issue or policy or politics was a protest against | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
apartheid. I would study his words and his writings, the day he was | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
released from prison he gave me a sense of what human beings can do | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
when guided by their hopes and not their fears. Like so many around the | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
globe I cannot fully imagine my own life without the example that Nelson | :16:28. | :16:35. | |
Mandela set. I'm joined now by the founder of the Specials, and the | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
BBC's Creative Director. First of all, it was Jew song, the song that | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
we all know now? Free Nelson Mandela. It was, yeah, it had an | :16:45. | :16:57. | |
effect, I wrote it when I went to his 65th anniversary party at the | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
Alexandra Palace, a lot of people singing about him, and I was already | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
working on a song, I had a bit of instrumental music and I put the | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
lyrics to that, which was probably the key to it being so happy. | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
Otherwise I would have probably written a dour ballad or something. | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
Alan, those son sets, there was 19 -- consorts, it was 1988 and 1990 | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
when he came? The concert the catalyst was the song. And the | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
promoter came to me and brought some, a senior, an ex-BBC person to | :17:38. | :17:45. | |
add gravitas to the person and really said will you do this. We had | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
to depoliticise it because it was the BC, remember the Thatcher -- | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
BBC, remember the Thatcher Government was still in power, and | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
there was still a sense that South Africa, that movement, the ANC | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
movement and the antiapartheid Government couldn't be supported in | :18:02. | :18:09. | |
quite that way. But there was Trevor Huddleston. Let me bring you in, you | :18:10. | :18:20. | |
met Nelson Mandela? Not in the same space, he was frail at the time and | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
the unveiling of the statue in Parliament Square. We heard David | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
Lammy saying he couldn't say anything because he was overcome, | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
culturally what has been the importance of Nelson Mandela? Well, | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
it is, that is a very big question, he's been the great poetic figure of | :18:43. | :18:50. | |
our time. In terms of represented freedom, integrity, his beauty of | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
spirit, his love of dance, his sense of humour and his dress style. He | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
championed an of a an aesthetic. I see him as being not only an African | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
statesman but the commensurate statesman of our time of. The reason | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
I say this is because he demonstrated more than anybody else | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
in our times how you transfigure the great burden of suffering and | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
expectation into forgiveness, grace and dignity. He held the hand of | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
South Africa through its most difficult time and calmed the nerves | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
of those who were afraid of what might befall it during that | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
transition. He helped the nation become itself. And he taught all of | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
us around the world how to bear difficulty with dignity. And to work | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
with De Klerk and Botha to work with these people? To work with difficult | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
and tricky people. One of his greatest legacies, actually, is | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
time. I always say he taught us the wise use of time. He, for many other | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
people 27 years would have been a great reservoir of bitterness and | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
anger and rage, actually the 27 years was converted very quietly | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
into political power and great respect and a kind of iconic | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
authority. He turned time into something else. You have to go back | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
to the great duddist amongst to see anything like that and its effect on | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
world politics. As you were growing up, did he have a big influence on | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
you, his incarceration? The first time I heard about him was his 65th | :20:30. | :20:45. | |
birthday. Someone did a survey and they couldn't find Nelson Mandela's | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
name in the Houses of Parliament but his name was starting to come out. | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
If you think about the global audience. That was 600 million. We | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
say now Geldof, all the things that have gone after, that was the | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
revolutionary, to bring the world together on television to support | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
him? We live in the world of the internet now and it is not so | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
surprising that people can conGLE gate in that way -- congregate in | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
that way. But to bring together 600 people, and the amazing thing about | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
it is it grew, it started, someone would say yes and someone else | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
would. Even for the BBC it was apolitical. Do you remember that | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
day, the 1988 concert? Yes I do, I do, I watched it on TV, I couldn't | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
afford to be there. For me it was a moment of great unity. One just felt | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
even in your little room you felt you were connecting with a great | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
movement all over the world. A great groundswell of desire to bring about | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
this change and to free Nelson Mandela. It was one of those moments | :21:50. | :21:57. | |
branded in one's memory in one's time here on the planet. You were up | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
dancing with everyone? I was dancing in my little bedsit, yes. Thank you | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
all very much indeed. That's all from this extended programme. We | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
leave you with footage from the film about Nelson Mandela, starring Idris | :22:10. | :22:18. | |
Elba, which had the UK premier scheduled tonight. I have cherished | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
the idea of a free democratic society where all persons live | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
together in harmony with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which | :22:26. | :22:36. | |
I hope to live for and achieve. But, if needs be it is | :22:37. | :22:38. |