05/12/2013 Newsnight


05/12/2013

Kirsty Wark with reaction and tributes following the announcement that former South African president Nelson Mandela has died in Johannesburg at the age of 95.


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Nelson Mandela, the father of the South African nation has died. An

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hour ago Jacob Zuma, the President of South Africa announced his death.

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Our beloved Nelson Mandela, the founding President of our democratic

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nation has departed. He passed on peacefully. Nelson Mandela was born

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in 1918, almost a century ago. In 1963 he was sentenced for life

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imprisonment for political offence, and spent 18 of his 27 years in

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prison on Robben Island. There are many people who feel it is useless

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and futile for us to continue to talk peace and nonviolence, against

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a Government's whose reply is only savage attacks. On an unarmed and

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defenceless people. He was released in 1990 and three years laterhand

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and President De Klerk were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Manned voted

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for the first time in his life and voted the first President of a

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democratic South Africa. He was surely the most famous man in the

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world, certainly the most respected, he was called the world's elder

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statesman. Nelson Mandela, Madiba, his Khan name, has died at the age

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of 95, surrounded by his family. Including his former wife and

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present wife, and the President, Jacob Zuma, made the announcement

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under an hour ago. Fellow South African under an hour ago. Fellow

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South Africans our beloved Nelson Mandela, father of our democratic

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nation has departed. He passed on peacefully in the company of his

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family surround 20. 50, on the 5th of December. He is now resting, he

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is now at peace. Our nation has lost its greatest son, our people have

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lost a father. Although we knew that this day would come nothing can

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diminish our sense of a profound and enduring loss. His tireless struggle

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for freedom and him, the respect of the world. Jacob Zuma, we speak to

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Johannesburg live now. It must be a profound atmosphere of sadness in

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the country? That's right, that statement which you heard which came

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just about an hour ago was preceded by a few hours of quite frenetic

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activity around Nelson Mandela's home in Johannesburg. We saw cars

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arriving, family members, some Government vehicles and about an

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hour before the statement police vans, trying to set up a cordon to

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keep whatever crowds might gather out. That certainly told people here

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that something was up. Even though, of course, this announcement has

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been expected for a very, very long time now, but then, of course, when

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the announcement came I think none the less for South Africans it will

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still be a shock. I think the key words there from Jacob Zuma that you

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heard speaking in Pretoria Union Buildings were profound and enduring

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sense of loss. He said that the nation had lost its greatest son and

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that our people have lost a father, people here call Mr Mandela,

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"Madiba" which is his clan name, or "tata" which is father. He was ill

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for a very long time and he was 95, he was taken to hospital in June,

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which was the third time this year. He spent three months At his trial,

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which was the third time this year. Nelson Mandela closed his statement

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from Nelson Mandela closed his statement

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We have lost one of the only ideal he hoped

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We have lost one of the only profoundly good human beings that

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any of us will share time with. He not only belongs to us, he belongs

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to the ages. Through his fierce dignity and unbending will to

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sacrifice his own freedom for the freedom of others, Madiba transform

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South Africa and moved all of us. His journey from a prisoner to a

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President embodied the promise that human beings in countries can change

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for the better. His commitment to transfer power and reconciled with

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those who jailed him set an example that all humanity should aspire to.

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President Obama. And we will bring you reaction from other worldly

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goods as we get it. Let's go back to Gabriel. Although in 1999 he stood

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down and handed over to Thabo Mbeki comity was very active in society,

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huge force for reconciliation, very much a wise man. And indeed he took

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us down on issues like and HIV against Sabo Mbeki. He did. He

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remained a huge moral authority even after he left politics. Even after

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he almost disappeared from public life altogether. And that is why I

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think in part you will see such a huge reaction to his death tonight

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and in the coming days. Even though he had not been seen in public for a

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very long time, its very existence, the very knowledge of South Africans

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that Madiba, as they called him, was still alive exercised power over

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them, the vision of a country that could be better than it is. A

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country that achieved so much against such terrible odds. Under

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Nelson Mandela's leadership, the very fact of his continued existence

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I think gay people hope they could still move forward, and further. --

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gave people hope. We joined now by a South African journalist who

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reported the apartheid struggle and became close to Nelson Mandela. It

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is a sad time but thank you for speaking to us tonight. You knew

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Nelson Mandela as a young man and in fact you reported on his decision to

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take up the armed struggle. I knew him first 35 years ago. I'll began

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to see him as a journalist. There was debate about the papers that

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black people carried. People had been arrested and there was a trial

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in the basement of the courts. The magistrate closed the court. I said

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you better not do this. And Nelson never forgot this, in the latest

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years when I was in Robben Island and he -- he was in Robben Island

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and I would be where I am, he would write to me and addressed to me by

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name, he referred to this episode and the letter would be passed

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person to person. Do you think when he organised that national workers'

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strike, the three-day strike, and then carried on in that vein that he

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knew it was very possible he would be in prison for a very long time?

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Oh yeah, that was going back to those days, his commitment to

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freedom, his self-sacrifice, this was a man, we're talking about the

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end of the 1950s, 1960, although he was a leader in the of a anal

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Congress, he had a bit of an image as play boy. He was very handsome,

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well dressed, he was tall strapping man, he liked the laties and until

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he settled down. He was a lawyer, only a handful in Johannesburg at

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the time, when I saw him in prison I was the first non-family person to

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be allowed to see him as a friend not as a journalist in the early

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1980s. I had to give the Government an undertaking not to write it. It

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was pretty hard for me as I was deputy editor of the Mail. The the

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difference between what he was in 1960, and 1961 and what he was 20

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years ago, he was a different person. He matured, he had grown. I

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had heard already through the grapevine that he had become the

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natural leader on Robben Island, it wasn't just the of a

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It wasn't just the African National Congress testifies all people. On

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the telephone is the Archbishop of Canterbury. Good evening. Good

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evening. Perhaps when people think of Nelson Mandela they think of his

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enormous capacity for forgiveness? Yes, it is the most striking and

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extraordinary thing, and the footage this evening reminds us of that

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incredible gift of generosity and fness of spirit that is so unusual

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and unique. Do you think it was an extraordinary spirit of character

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that took him through 27 years, it is hard to imagine 27 years, 18 of

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them on Robben Island, never faltering once? I think it is... I

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think one is lost for words thinking of what the cost of that must have

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been personally. And the inner struggle that there must have been

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and where it ended with this great opening to accept all South Africans

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and set an example of forgiveness which challenges everyone around the

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world. There was a line from President Obama there, he was

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quoting t he said "I have fought against white domination, I have

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fought against black domination". He wanted such an inclusive South

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Africa, didn't he? Yes, and the pattern that South Africa has

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established and I know very well the present head of the Anglican Church

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in South Africa and you see it in him, is of enormous inclusion. A

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willingness to accept, if you like, a prejudice towards welcome and

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hospitality, rather than shutting out and empty. D -- enmity. Striking

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in his latter years that everyone in the world wanted to be photographed

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with Nelson Mandela? Yes, it did seem to be the great fashion. But it

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is more, it is the sense of the magic rubbing off, it is the inner

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character that needs to rub off not the outer sign. So you think, so do

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you think it is possible to be innately good, particularly good,

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Benjamin was talking earlier about him being a handsome young man and

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he loved going out, that it is possible to have an innate sense of

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goodness? I think it is possible to deciding to the right way. Clearly

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that's what happened with him. It must have been a huge inner struggle

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to have got there. But he did so. Innate goodness, I don't know about

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innate goodness, I think there is innate decision, clear inward

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decisions that certain things are right and certain things are wrong.

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Latterly, of course, although he had withdrawn to a certain extent to

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public life, his influence in South Africa was still as strong?

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Everything, every South African that I have come across in recent years

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saw him as the beacon by which one set one's course in life, if you

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wanted to do the right thing. Yes, he is one of the great lights of the

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world and it has gone out this evening. We can see now Imams of

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people in South Africa sitting I think perhaps near Nelson Mandela's

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house and the families inside in terms of the people his current wife

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and his former wife and surviving children. Nelson Mandela is to be

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buried in the little village in the Eastern Cape which he chose as his

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final resting place, it is a region that has a special importance in

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Mandela's remarkable history. He was born near here, it was here he

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learned many of the lessons and skills that would be crucial to him

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as a politician. In the first part of a special Newsnight obituary, we

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report on his early life and struggle against apartheid. Nelson

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Mandela was born on July 18th 1918, out on the hills in a hut that used

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to stall here as part of a corral in the village. It is a remote part of

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South Africa that he always regarded as his true home. Here, even as a

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boy, he showed a singleminded determination and would fight for

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what he believed to be right. His father was a local chief and

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grandson of the king of the Tembu people, who controlled the area down

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to the Bashi River. It is a part of the world where people uphold the

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old tradition, these women celebrate the circumcision, these men who have

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par taken in the ritual are held in he is collision, as Mandela was when

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he took part in this ritual. Outside there is a demonstration of stick

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fighting, in which opponents spar and parry with clubs made from hard

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thorn wood. A rural sport at which the young Mandela also excelled. His

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childhood friend, Maxim Bombatu remembers him as a man who didn't

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like to lose. Mandela was brought up here in the

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little village of Kunu, where he would herd cattle and sheep. After

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his father died he moved to the court of the acting Tembu king, the

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regent. A leader, the regent told him, is like a shepherd, he stays

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behind the flock, letting the most nimble go on ahead, whereupon the

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others follow, not realised all the along they are being dictated to

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from behind. It was a lesson he would never forget. In 1941 at the

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age of 23, Nelson Mandela moved to Johannesburg to escape from a

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marriage arranged by the regent. Here he studied law, became involved

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in politics and threw himself into city living. There was no equality

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between black and white, but there was a vibrant black cultural and

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music scene. And Mandela developed into a confident man about town and

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a sharp dresser. The stick fighter became a boxer, learning when to

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dodge and when to attack. Skills that would prove crucial for a

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political leader. He cared enormously about his appearance,

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ands you know he was also a fairly good boxer. So he looked after his

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body and the ladies had an eye for hem and he had for them too. In 1944

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he married a nurse, Evelyn Masi, there would be little time for

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family life. For the same year he joined the Executive Committee of

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the new youth league of the ANC, pledged to fight for black rights.

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Also on the executive Oliver Tambo, a friend from school days, with whom

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Mandela would start a ground-breaking African law firm.

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Mandela and Tambu operated from this building, Chancellor House in town

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Johannesburg, it was the centre of resistance. They became attorneys

:21:22.:21:26.

for a host of black clients. Practically everybody wanted to be

:21:27.:21:31.

defended by him. Because he had so much work and he briefed counsel,

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young counsel like me to go and, if I turned up and said I was

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instructed by Mr Mandela the clients were ed that he was not there to do

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the case himself. He was always a very stylish figure in court? Oh

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yeah, absolutely, no doubt about it, he was, he was, he was the centre of

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the stage. But life for black South African was getting worse, as the

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Africana National Party enforced an ever-more stringent policy of

:22:09.:22:11.

apartheid, separateness. Today the memory of apartheid is kept alive in

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a Johannesburg museum. Everyone was classified by race, with different

:22:17.:22:19.

races forced to live in different areas. Black South Africans had to

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carry pass-books or face arrest. ANC leaders like Mandela who called for

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democratic, multiracial South Africa, were harassed, banned from

:22:30.:22:34.

attending meetings and arrested. He was now on the ANC national

:22:35.:22:38.

executive, by 1958 he had divorced Evelyn and remarried to Winnie, with

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even less time for his family. The recollections of my dad when I was

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young of a father who was there but never there. You know he was never

:22:53.:23:01.

around the home. So how do you balance the politics and the family

:23:02.:23:08.

life? Did he balance them, I don't know that, I don't know that he was

:23:09.:23:13.

able to maintain that kind of balance. By 1960 the situation had

:23:14.:23:26.

become even more critical. An anti-pass law in sharpsville became

:23:27.:23:33.

a massacre when the police shot many people dead. Manied had -- manied

:23:34.:23:41.

went underground to think. Many people think it is futile for us to

:23:42.:23:46.

continue to talk peaceful resistance, against a Government

:23:47.:23:50.

whose only reply is savage attacks against an unarmed and defenceless

:23:51.:23:56.

people. An ANC sabotage campaign began with Mandela in charge. As

:23:57.:24:00.

leader of the underground army, Spear of the Nation, he became the

:24:01.:24:06.

most wanted man in South Africa. He secretly left for Britain before his

:24:07.:24:10.

arrest in 1962. He was earlier acquitted for treats son, in

:24:11.:24:16.

Pretoria he and other senior ANC leaders faced charges that they

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plotted and engineered the commission of acts of violence and

:24:19.:24:22.

destruction throughout the country. Defiant as ever he appeared in court

:24:23.:24:27.

in tribal dress. He expected to be hanged, as were so many of those who

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continued the struggle and from the dock he delivered one of the most

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powerful speeches of his life. Mandela was found guilty, but his

:24:35.:25:33.

life was spared. He and seven other colleagues were sentenced to life

:25:34.:25:37.

imprisonment and sent to the bleak jail on Robben Island off the coast

:25:38.:25:45.

of Cape Town. Mandela would remain here for 18 years, held in this cell

:25:46.:25:49.

in the isolation block, at first with only a straw mat to sleep on.

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From the start he acted like a leader, not a prisoner. He put his

:25:54.:25:59.

hands through the bars and he shook my hand and said he was very pleased

:26:00.:26:05.

to meet you, and I said I'm pleased to meet you, I said tell me about

:26:06.:26:10.

the conditions here. The head warder was with us and yet Mandela had no

:26:11.:26:15.

hesitation in telling me exactly what they were complaining of. He

:26:16.:26:22.

was brought by no less than eight warders. And said that, George you

:26:23.:26:30.

know this place has really made me forget my good manners, I must

:26:31.:26:37.

introduce you to my guard of honour. He proceeded to introduce me to each

:26:38.:26:42.

one of them by first name and surname. And you know prisoners

:26:43.:26:49.

generally speak this and don't set the pace at which the group walks,

:26:50.:26:55.

it is the warders. But here it was quite clear that the pace was almost

:26:56.:27:02.

a regular gall one, and it was being set by Nelson Mandela. How did the

:27:03.:27:06.

guards react to that? They were shocked. In January 1965 Nelson

:27:07.:27:12.

Mandela and the other political prisoners were first brought here

:27:13.:27:17.

and forced to hack away at the rocks of the Robben Island lime quarry.

:27:18.:27:22.

Forced labour that would continue for the next 13 years. For the first

:27:23.:27:27.

three years Mandela was not even allowed to wear dark glass, despite

:27:28.:27:32.

the blinding glare from the rocks. His eyesight never fully recovered.

:27:33.:27:38.

Mandela became the prisoners' leader and spokesman. Together they turned

:27:39.:27:42.

this prison island into a political workshop. He was, at least being

:27:43.:27:49.

held alongside old friends and ANC colleagues, like Walter Sasulu,

:27:50.:27:55.

together they discussed strategy for the outside world. Visits from his

:27:56.:28:01.

wife Winnie were a lifeline for man who put his struggle above his own

:28:02.:28:06.

life. Even his fellow prisoners found him inscrutable. He doesn't

:28:07.:28:12.

easily show emotion. When his mother died when we were in jail, And his

:28:13.:28:24.

son was killed while we were in there in an accident, he never

:28:25.:28:32.

showed emotion. His closest friend Walter was there and he could see

:28:33.:28:38.

this man has taken it badly and went to console him. But as far as the

:28:39.:28:42.

rest of us were concerned, he never, ever allowed his personal concerns

:28:43.:28:48.

to override what he considered to be his duty towards us, the fellow

:28:49.:28:54.

prisoners. Eventually change would come. In 1982 Mandela was

:28:55.:29:00.

transferred to the prison on the mainland. He was offered his freedom

:29:01.:29:04.

provided he gave up violence unconditionally. He refused. Instead

:29:05.:29:08.

he started solo negotiations with the apartheid Government, deciding

:29:09.:29:12.

there are times when a leader must move ahead of the flock. Six years

:29:13.:29:18.

later he was moved again, now to a house of his own, though still

:29:19.:29:27.

within a prison complex. He had garden, a pool and even a cook to

:29:28.:29:30.

make him fish cakes for breakfast. Here for 14 months he conducted

:29:31.:29:35.

crucial negotiations with the Governments of first PW both that

:29:36.:29:42.

and FW de Klerk, to the concern of some colleagues. The rumours spread

:29:43.:29:46.

in the country and reached our people outside, and the rumour is

:29:47.:29:51.

Mandela is selling out. He's talking to the chaps for his own benefit,

:29:52.:29:57.

he's selling out the struggle. But Mandela was aware that the apartheid

:29:58.:30:00.

Government was under increasing pressure. free There was an upsurge

:30:01.:30:40.

in the ANC's own armed struggle while pressure from outside included

:30:41.:30:47.

sanctions by a mass campaign to free prisoners. There was a mass pop

:30:48.:30:53.

concert against apartheid, the aim to ensure his global image was now

:30:54.:30:58.

that of a global leader now in prison. The message reached a quite

:30:59.:31:08.

extraordinary television audience, estimated at 500 million people in

:31:09.:31:13.

67 countries, far more than Live Aid, and reinforced by songs

:31:14.:31:17.

including an international hit anthem.

:31:18.:31:27.

# Free Nelson Mandela # Free Nelson Mandela ??FORCEDWHI

:31:28.:31:32.

Music can put across the emotional side of the message, you know.

:31:33.:31:38.

Politicians can talk forever and the sadness of the whole situation,

:31:39.:31:41.

that's what I tried to put into the song. Less than two years larks on

:31:42.:31:49.

February 11th 1990, Nelson Mandela, now the world's best known political

:31:50.:31:54.

prisoner was freed on his own terms. He walked out of the prison, hand in

:31:55.:31:59.

hand with his wife Winnie in one of the great theatrical, emotional

:32:00.:32:06.

moments of contemporary history. The Prime Minister, David Cameron,

:32:07.:32:11.

has just spoken in Downing Street. Tonight, one of the brightest lights

:32:12.:32:16.

of our world has gone out. Nelson Mandela was not just a hero of our

:32:17.:32:22.

time, but a hero of all time. The first President of a free South

:32:23.:32:28.

Africa, a man who suffered so much for freedom and justice, and a man

:32:29.:32:36.

who threw his dignity -- through his dignity and triumph inspired

:32:37.:32:40.

millions. Joining from down the line in Birmingham and England the

:32:41.:32:46.

Reverend Jesse Jackson, and the South Africa editor of the Economist

:32:47.:32:51.

and now the director of the Royal African Society. First of all, Mr

:32:52.:32:58.

Jackson, he had been ill for a very long time, but the passing of Nelson

:32:59.:33:02.

Mandela still comes as a shock? It is still traumatising, his release

:33:03.:33:07.

took us to unbelievable heights of joy and the release of his spirit

:33:08.:33:14.

takes to deep depths of pain and sorrow as we think about him being a

:33:15.:33:18.

suffering servant who used the power of his presence and persona to bring

:33:19.:33:23.

down the very violent walls of apartheid. The most critical moment

:33:24.:33:28.

he chose reconciliation over retribution. That may be the pivitol

:33:29.:33:32.

point. He could have with one wave of his finger sent South Africa into

:33:33.:33:36.

a bitter, bloody devisive fight. He chose to get ahead rather than to

:33:37.:33:41.

get even. Do you remember as a young man, was he an inspiring figure to

:33:42.:33:48.

you? He was that. Because in the, not the king and Nelson Mandela, in

:33:49.:34:04.

1963, Dr King references his speech and realised how difficult that

:34:05.:34:07.

battle would be. We kept on pulling and people like Randall Robinson and

:34:08.:34:14.

Mary Berry and others, we were arrested every day for a year in

:34:15.:34:17.

front of the South African embassy, with heightened American and western

:34:18.:34:21.

consciousness to a new level. And finally the US Government chose to

:34:22.:34:25.

engage in sanctions against South Africa. We could not get Britain and

:34:26.:34:28.

Mrs Thatcher to take that position, in the end it was clear that the

:34:29.:34:36.

side of history was tilting towards Mr Mandela and he would be released

:34:37.:34:40.

and let out of jail. When he was let out of jail he had the good judgment

:34:41.:34:44.

to engage in a new process politically rather than an old

:34:45.:34:47.

process militarily that would have been so bloody. Going back, because

:34:48.:34:54.

you followed Nelson Mandela and you followed that struggle, and Walter

:34:55.:35:02.

Sazulu was mentioned earlier, that group around Nelson Mandela was so

:35:03.:35:07.

important to him? With Walter and Ahmed and Kathrada, this small group

:35:08.:35:13.

that had all gone in at the same time and thought they would never

:35:14.:35:16.

come out. They realised, one of the things they realised was they had

:35:17.:35:21.

time. There Mandela really changes when he's in jail with these other

:35:22.:35:28.

people. But although they were still a very strong group, he then went

:35:29.:35:33.

off on his own and began to talk to the Government. That's the

:35:34.:35:35.

extraordinary thing, because that was the thing that would never, they

:35:36.:35:42.

would never agree to. And he did it without their permission. Your own

:35:43.:35:49.

experience of Nelson Mandela, Mr Jackson, when did you meet him? In

:35:50.:35:57.

190, I was one of the -- I was one of the first people to meet him out

:35:58.:36:01.

of prison. I remember him coming to New York on his first tour and he

:36:02.:36:08.

was in an interview and they said you are visiting nation that is are

:36:09.:36:18.

anathema to America, he said you can't choose my friends they helped

:36:19.:36:22.

me get free. He never stopped reaching out to the third world

:36:23.:36:26.

outcast nations to bring them to untent. And many of the politicians

:36:27.:36:30.

today still have those same nations as outcast, he never gave up on

:36:31.:36:35.

trying to create one big world. You heard one of his older daughters

:36:36.:36:39.

saying his old life was a struggle and that he didn't have, obviously

:36:40.:36:43.

he was away for so long, he didn't have much of a family life. But when

:36:44.:36:48.

he came out there was a rejuvenation in that, and the wonderful marriage

:36:49.:36:54.

he had to his wife? 27 years of that kind of family separation, weighed

:36:55.:37:01.

heavily. I shall never forget one of my last conversations with him a

:37:02.:37:04.

couple of years ago, when they arrested him at the farm, they were

:37:05.:37:08.

planning that week to bomb, they had been bombing installations, they

:37:09.:37:12.

were going to bomb a hospital and a school perhaps the next week, they

:37:13.:37:17.

thought all efforts were futile. He said he actually was glad that they

:37:18.:37:20.

caught him and jailed him rather than allow him to in fact kill

:37:21.:37:24.

innocent people. He did not want the bloodshed on his hands. He chose in

:37:25.:37:30.

the end, he looked inside and had suffered for 27 years years and

:37:31.:37:40.

killed innocent people. After the office as President, he was a huge

:37:41.:37:44.

force for reconciliation for South Africa, and also a firm voice when

:37:45.:37:47.

he didn't like the things happening in South Africa? He made it very

:37:48.:37:50.

clear not just for South Africa but for all of Africa about DMOKising

:37:51.:38:00.

those developments democratising Governments. He could have been the

:38:01.:38:03.

President until tonight, after two terms he left and engaged in a

:38:04.:38:08.

political process, and succeeded Mbeki and Zuma, and also that is an

:38:09.:38:15.

example of having an ordinary organised effort of transition. I

:38:16.:38:21.

cannot help that had been a divided country based on bloodshed, it would

:38:22.:38:25.

have been a weak country, the strongest country in Africa and

:38:26.:38:29.

South Africa in no small measure it is stronger because of his legacy.

:38:30.:38:36.

You also saw him use his lawyerly skills when it came to the

:38:37.:38:54.

elections? I saw him at a Qazulu at the start of the election. The chief

:38:55.:38:58.

said he would not take part which meant the whole nation would not

:38:59.:39:02.

vote. He went into the heartland and if he was going to get assassinated

:39:03.:39:07.

it would happen there. He made the extraordinary speech saying the king

:39:08.:39:15.

of the Zulus was his father. Because he was a chief, but he also was his

:39:16.:39:20.

son because he was adviser to his father, so he played this game and

:39:21.:39:24.

he said, he was basically saying come in and vote on this election.

:39:25.:39:28.

And I remember this because he came up, it was in a soccer field and

:39:29.:39:33.

there was a sort of wooden podium and by chance, I got caught at the

:39:34.:39:38.

top of the steps and Mandela came up and I was standing there at the top

:39:39.:39:43.

of the steps and he came up and I was obviously in the wrong place at

:39:44.:39:46.

the wrong time he put out his hand and said good afternoon, my name is

:39:47.:39:51.

Nelson Mandela, about to make the most dangerous speech of that whole

:39:52.:39:56.

election campaign. Mr Jackson? We must not forget that the men of the

:39:57.:40:01.

cape of South Africa part of the broader coalition did not vote for

:40:02.:40:05.

him in that first election. They feared they could not reconcile with

:40:06.:40:10.

blacks in Soweto, and yet he was able to reconcile those forces to

:40:11.:40:14.

ensure them that it would be a commitment not to tribalism but

:40:15.:40:18.

mutual security and wholesome democracy. Just finally, one

:40:19.:40:23.

imagines that his funeral and we were saying this a little while ago,

:40:24.:40:27.

his funeral will be one of the very big events of this period of the

:40:28.:40:32.

21st century. Well the lease of his body was the big -- the release of

:40:33.:40:39.

his body was the one of the biggest events the world has ever known and

:40:40.:40:44.

the release of his spirit may be the same. This was truly a force for

:40:45.:40:47.

good and the world has embraced him now even as it did in life. Thank

:40:48.:40:51.

you very much indeed. 27 years in jail would destroy many men but for

:40:52.:40:56.

Mandela, as we have been hearing, the years of suffering pray

:40:57.:41:00.

preparation, for once he left prison a free man at last he would be asked

:41:01.:41:04.

to play a crucial role in surely the most dangerous and critical period

:41:05.:41:13.

of his country's history. Once Nelson Mandela was free,

:41:14.:41:17.

celebrations rapidly gave way to hard politics. Those who expected

:41:18.:41:20.

him to be bitter were quickly disabused. He managed to disarm his

:41:21.:41:27.

old enemies, the Africanas of the National Party, with his rare blend

:41:28.:41:32.

of toughest and understanding. I will never forget the first meeting

:41:33.:41:37.

with the ANC, and he was given the first opportunity to speak by Mr De

:41:38.:41:45.

Klerk. He obviously made a very, very study of the Africans history,

:41:46.:41:53.

our history, I'm an Africana, he knew it better than most of us, he

:41:54.:42:00.

came forward with his thesis, saying that what he could not understand

:42:01.:42:05.

was that here was a people who suffered at the hands of the

:42:06.:42:09.

British, and what he could not understand is why we could not see

:42:10.:42:17.

the same misery and order of things amongst the blacks. But when

:42:18.:42:24.

negotiation began in ernest, and De Klerk attacked Mandela for not

:42:25.:42:28.

disbanding his guerrilla fighters, he furiously hit back. What

:42:29.:42:31.

political organisation could hand over its weapons to the same men --

:42:32.:42:40.

man regarded as killing innocent people. He had proved to black South

:42:41.:42:44.

Africans that he had not sold out. That one speech wiped the record

:42:45.:42:50.

clear. In the country people were driving around, there were people

:42:51.:42:54.

stopping and flashing their lights. In Soweto they were in the streets

:42:55.:42:59.

shouting and hailing what had happened. That was the turning point

:43:00.:43:07.

for the black institutes. These were dangerous days for South Africa,

:43:08.:43:12.

NENTs of majority -- opponents of majority rule or ANC rule

:43:13.:43:17.

threatening to make the country unglovable. There were violent

:43:18.:43:26.

clashes between ANC supporters and the Zulu chief Freedom Party. And

:43:27.:43:32.

even fears of Civil War when white extremists threatened to fight for

:43:33.:43:37.

their own state. Mandela's greatest challenge as a peace maker came in

:43:38.:43:45.

April 1983. Chris Harney, communist leader, and arguably the country's

:43:46.:43:49.

second-most popular black politician was murdered by a white extremist.

:43:50.:43:55.

Black South Africa erupted in fury. It seemed the country to be torn

:43:56.:44:00.

apart by race riots, but Mandela diffused the situation by explaining

:44:01.:44:04.

how the assassin had been caught, thanks to the actions of a white

:44:05.:44:11.

woman, an Africana. We have never been closer to catastrophe, and the

:44:12.:44:20.

bloodbath that people had been predicting was going to be our lot,

:44:21.:44:27.

that we were going to have been overwhelmed, we would have been

:44:28.:44:31.

overwhelmed. It was Mandela personally who averted that

:44:32.:44:46.

catastrophe? His contribution was critical. Nelson Mandela prevailed,

:44:47.:44:51.

on April 27th 1994, South African held its first truly democratic

:44:52.:45:04.

election In May he was sworn in as the country's first black President.

:45:05.:45:20.

I, Nelson Mandela do here by pledge to be faithful to the Republic of

:45:21.:45:28.

South Africa. His new Government of National Unity had a former white

:45:29.:45:35.

South African politician. We made a terrible mistake, I blame myself and

:45:36.:45:39.

our colleagues, and I blame our security personnel. We had such a

:45:40.:45:46.

phobia or mania about communism. And a threat of communism. It was real

:45:47.:45:51.

at the time, it was real at the time, even the Americans thought the

:45:52.:46:02.

same. That some how we would just be blind. As President, Mandela's

:46:03.:46:11.

public image was that of a cheerleader for the new rainbow

:46:12.:46:22.

nation. He amazed and delighted Afrikaneres by wearing a new

:46:23.:46:26.

springbok rugby shirt. Businessmen too fell under his spell as he

:46:27.:46:30.

persuaded them he was certainly no communist and they should invest in

:46:31.:46:44.

the new South Africa. And Cape Town tourists travelled to Robben Island

:46:45.:46:47.

through the Nelson Mandela Gateway, one of thousands of buildings and

:46:48.:46:51.

roads named after him in South Africa and across the world. At the

:46:52.:46:57.

bookshop one of his former prison guards sold Mandela momentos. He was

:46:58.:47:04.

that rarity of statesman who seemed to connect with everyone, from

:47:05.:47:10.

politicians to models. But his daughter saw a different side. For

:47:11.:47:15.

the 27 years for him to survive he had to actually blanche his feelings

:47:16.:47:21.

and emotion and become very intellectual and rational person. So

:47:22.:47:28.

he doesn't, and I say this, he doesn't easily connect you know. He

:47:29.:47:33.

will say to me, he goes out there and has this connection with the

:47:34.:47:36.

people and he holds the babies. That is one person, but when he comes to

:47:37.:47:43.

very close and very intimate there is always the distance. There is

:47:44.:47:50.

always the distance. For Nelson Mandela public triumph was matched

:47:51.:47:55.

by private tragedy. His second wife Winnie had campaigned tirelessly for

:47:56.:47:59.

his release and harassed by the authorities. She became increasingly

:48:00.:48:05.

militant and was seen first as beyond ANC control and then as a

:48:06.:48:09.

liability after being convicted of kidnapping, the marriage collapsed.

:48:10.:48:18.

He really loved her. You know, he was almost like have you seen a

:48:19.:48:26.

puppy when it follows with its eyes the master or mistress it loves. He

:48:27.:48:36.

was something like that. I mean you saw the adoration. It is one of the

:48:37.:48:45.

most traumatic things ever to have happened to him. On his 80th

:48:46.:48:52.

birthday Nelson Mandela married for the third time, to the widow of the

:48:53.:49:00.

former President of Mozambique. Leadership is a lonely journey, very

:49:01.:49:06.

rarely do we have people who are really true loyal people around you,

:49:07.:49:10.

people tell you things you want to hear most of the time. I think that

:49:11.:49:17.

he needed a companion. I think he found one in Grace, and she has been

:49:18.:49:25.

really very instrumental in, and I give him a lot of credit for

:49:26.:49:30.

bringing this divided family together. Mandela stepped down as

:49:31.:49:39.

President in 1999 to make way for Thabo Mbeki, he remained an astute

:49:40.:49:46.

politician. Charming a British television audience with his dancing

:49:47.:49:52.

in 2001. He also attended a concert in his honour in London's Trafalgar

:49:53.:49:57.

Square. He was accompanied by Tony Blair, whom he would later furiously

:49:58.:50:01.

criticise over the Iraq War. He became involved in education

:50:02.:50:06.

projects, conflict mediation and a campaign to fight HIV AIDS. It is

:50:07.:51:50.

the chosen final resting place for an extraordinary politician who was

:51:51.:51:57.

admired. Against all odds it is a man who tried to make life better

:51:58.:52:04.

for you and me and for humanity. He will live not only in South Africa,

:52:05.:52:09.

and Africa, but the world at large, and one can say how and when can we

:52:10.:52:26.

find the man like him. A man who held a nation together and made it

:52:27.:52:40.

proud. Made them believe, hey, it is possible for enemies to become

:52:41.:52:52.

friends. Nelson Mandela will be remembered as one of the great

:52:53.:52:57.

fighters idealists and statesmen of Africa and of the world. We can go

:52:58.:53:06.

now to pictures from where Nelson Mandela used to live, people dancing

:53:07.:53:11.

and standing near his house, and we also know, of course, that there are

:53:12.:53:15.

a number of people gathered at his home in Johannesburg where the

:53:16.:53:19.

surviving children and indeed his wife and former wife are earlier

:53:20.:53:24.

this evening and I believe still to be there. Those are the pictures

:53:25.:53:28.

from Houghton in South Africa, we can go and speak to the Vice

:53:29.:53:37.

Chancellor of the Rand University. Good evening. Tell me, what

:53:38.:53:45.

difference do you think there will be in South Africa now that Nelson

:53:46.:53:51.

Mandela is not there in a way as a guiding force? I think it is worth

:53:52.:53:54.

bearing in mind that Nelson Mandela, this is a very poignant and sad

:53:55.:53:57.

moment, but I also think that Nelson Mandela's passing is the passing of

:53:58.:54:03.

the last of a generation of ANC leaders unsullied by the trappings

:54:04.:54:07.

of power. He was, if you like, a unifying figure, and in the days

:54:08.:54:12.

that move on I suspect that for the short-term he will unify South

:54:13.:54:17.

Africa like no-one else has. If you think of the World Cup, think about

:54:18.:54:22.

it a thousand-times more where South Africans of all types, classes and

:54:23.:54:26.

races will unite in his memory. In the long-term, I think, he is no

:54:27.:54:31.

longer the asset that the ANC would have had. He was a unifying figure.

:54:32.:54:36.

, he could rally support for the ANC like no-one could, that is no longer

:54:37.:54:40.

going to be available to the ANC. Do you think that actually will have a

:54:41.:54:46.

detrimental impact on the country? I think in the long-term it will, in

:54:47.:54:50.

the short-term it will galvanise support for the ANC, in the

:54:51.:54:54.

long-term I think it is worth bearing in mind that he will no

:54:55.:54:57.

longer be available as an asset for the ANC. For those in worried about

:54:58.:55:05.

South Africa fracturing, that is far from happening. South Africa for all

:55:06.:55:10.

of its weaknesses and changes around inequality and poverty it is a very

:55:11.:55:14.

stable, politically stable society. It does have fissures and fractures,

:55:15.:55:19.

it is worth bearing in mind that Nelson Mandela established a very,

:55:20.:55:24.

very sound foundation, a foundation that is institutionally structured.

:55:25.:55:29.

They have a judicial system, parliament and courts. While there

:55:30.:55:34.

are challenges like many other places, it will continue as a stable

:55:35.:55:39.

society. He hasn't been politically active for at least four or five

:55:40.:55:42.

years. He was, as you said, a guiding hand, probably his memory

:55:43.:55:47.

will continue to do that. He will be what Lincoln was to the United

:55:48.:55:50.

States, what many other, what Gandhi is to India, Nelson Mandela will be

:55:51.:55:57.

that and more to South Africa. As an educationalist, one of the things he

:55:58.:56:00.

was so keen to do was transform education in South Africa, just

:56:01.:56:04.

explain to us how that happened. How different it looks now in terms of

:56:05.:56:17.

education? He was probably the most prominent iluminist. President, he

:56:18.:56:21.

spent a number of years there, a number of his fellow comrates and

:56:22.:56:29.

colleagues are -- comrades and colleagues were there. Else always

:56:30.:56:36.

committed to this. We have done fairly well with the access to

:56:37.:56:44.

schools. We have 96-94% access to school. It is the quality of

:56:45.:56:48.

schooling when they get there is not that great. We lose 50% of the

:56:49.:56:53.

people in the next ten years, and only 250,000 people will come out of

:56:54.:56:58.

1. 2 million people who enter the system in grade 1. That is an

:56:59.:57:03.

enormous wastage of human talent. At the high education level South

:57:04.:57:08.

Africa the numbers have completely doubled. Its higher education system

:57:09.:57:16.

is completely deracialised. It is a mixed record, there is a partial

:57:17.:57:21.

success but there are significant weaknesses that needs to be

:57:22.:57:24.

transcended. Thank you very much for joining u with the He willeders are

:57:25.:57:33.

an -- Elder are a group of officials to work on human rights. It is

:57:34.:57:42.

chaired by Kofi Annan And many others are part of it. Sir Richard

:57:43.:57:47.

Branson is part of it. How did Nelson Mandela play his part in your

:57:48.:57:55.

group? He was critical, he and his wife were the founding elders, he

:57:56.:58:03.

felt he wanted his legacy to live on through 12 wonderful men and women

:58:04.:58:07.

who have high moral authority and who could speak out on issues in the

:58:08.:58:11.

world, and also get out in the world and try to resolve conflicts. In the

:58:12.:58:28.

early days he was very involved but not so much in the later days. His

:58:29.:58:34.

wonderful wife, the other founding member, will now get very much

:58:35.:58:40.

involved more with the elders and make sure it will carry on in his

:58:41.:58:45.

name. Enyou encountered him and had conversations with him, I imagine he

:58:46.:58:51.

actually had quite a wicked sense of humour? A wonderful sense of humour,

:58:52.:58:56.

and you know he was always dancing, he would sing, he would pull in the

:58:57.:59:06.

cleaning lady and you know. And that was despite the fact that his knees

:59:07.:59:10.

were wrecked from 27 years of breaking stones in a jail. So you

:59:11.:59:18.

know, so, yeah, a wonderful sense of humour. But also when he was

:59:19.:59:23.

actually President he would do some extraordinary things. I once got a

:59:24.:59:28.

call when I was in the bath in England and was told that Mandela

:59:29.:59:35.

was on the phone. He said that a chain of health clubs had gone

:59:36.:59:39.

bankrupt, and would I get on the next plane to come and rescue the

:59:40.:59:46.

5,000 employees. Did you? I did, and we have now got the biggest health

:59:47.:59:51.

club chain in South Africa and employing 20,000 people, Virgin

:59:52.:59:56.

Active in South Africa. So all the time he was trying to see how he

:59:57.:00:02.

could help others in some way or another. That must have been a

:00:03.:00:06.

wonderful knack, because presumably nobody could refuse him anything?

:00:07.:00:13.

Yes, I mean having lunch with him once and I thought I had got away

:00:14.:00:17.

with it, because any lunch you had with Nelson Mandela was expensive,

:00:18.:00:23.

because he was always having a charity there to try to raise money

:00:24.:00:26.

for. And I got right through to the last course and then he turned to me

:00:27.:00:32.

and said, last week I had lunch with Bill Gates he gave me $50 million,

:00:33.:00:38.

and I knew I was in trouble. Thank you very much, delighted now to be

:00:39.:00:46.

joined by the MP David Lamie and the chaplain to the House of Commons and

:00:47.:00:49.

the first black woman to hold the post. First of all both of you

:00:50.:00:52.

growing up knowing about Nelson Mandela, how important was it to

:00:53.:00:56.

black people to have somebody like Mandela, David? In the context of

:00:57.:00:59.

this country black people are arriving from the Caribbean, Africa,

:01:00.:01:06.

south Asia, they have been emancipated if you like. Escaped

:01:07.:01:10.

their colonial master, but there are issues in the inner city in Britain,

:01:11.:01:15.

certainly through the 70s and 80s, we are getting riots and a lot of

:01:16.:01:19.

depression in black communities, so the fact of Mandela being in prison,

:01:20.:01:24.

and of course we can't see him, you don't see him for 27 years an

:01:25.:01:29.

intense emotion in the black community. And when he comes out in

:01:30.:01:36.

1990 for so many of us, I grew up without a father and I remember his

:01:37.:01:43.

poster on my bedroom wall. Him and Bill Cosby, my proxy father figure!

:01:44.:01:48.

Just the tears and the emotion that something different might be

:01:49.:01:53.

possible. Relative to your life in a very isolated community for me in

:01:54.:01:59.

Tottenham. Relative to your parents' lives and what they have seen in

:02:00.:02:05.

relation to Guyana or Nigeria, but this moment when the world finally

:02:06.:02:09.

turns its back on this terrible apartheid system that of course

:02:10.:02:16.

Martin Luthur king had gotten rid in in America. What did you think? The

:02:17.:02:23.

first thing I want to say is the world has lost a true son in Nelson

:02:24.:02:27.

Mandela's passing. Growing up in Jamaica and in the education system

:02:28.:02:32.

there we are taught about our national heros. In a sense they have

:02:33.:02:35.

done marvellous things but they were in books. They weren't sort of real,

:02:36.:02:41.

they were real but not real. Nelson Mandela was real and so there was a

:02:42.:02:47.

sense of hope that here was someone who today, not hundreds of years or

:02:48.:02:52.

so many years back and on a poster, but here was someone who was real,

:02:53.:02:59.

who was fighting the dehumanisation of a people and not just any people

:03:00.:03:04.

but a people who looked like me. That was amazing. And the fact that

:03:05.:03:12.

he was just such a huge inspiration, a huge incompetence pier racial to

:03:13.:03:17.

us growing up. And even now on his release from prison, that day when

:03:18.:03:23.

he was released I was rotted in that -- rooted in that lounge, nothing

:03:24.:03:29.

was going to move me from there. I don't know all the words but I sang

:03:30.:03:34.

the South African anthem. I cried, I prayed, I sang. I danced, it was

:03:35.:03:40.

real. What about him as a model though. We talked. Much earlier

:03:41.:03:46.

about the enormous capacity for forgiveness? He obviously stands

:03:47.:03:52.

with Gandhi, Martin Luthur king, before them Abraham Lincoln, the

:03:53.:04:06.

difference is they were killed. He lives, he is that great hope that

:04:07.:04:11.

lives, and he governed his country and does it with peace and

:04:12.:04:14.

reconciliation. He demonstrates you can get justice but justice through

:04:15.:04:19.

peace. He stands then as the biggest figure of the 21st century. If you

:04:20.:04:24.

like Adolf Hitler was the worst figure of the 21st century, Mandela

:04:25.:04:29.

is the absolute contrast. This is a huge moment, a huge moment at the

:04:30.:04:35.

turn of the 21st century. His passing will not just be felt in

:04:36.:04:38.

South Africa, I'm getting emotional thinking about it too. It will be

:04:39.:04:44.

felt here greatly. I just hope and pray that the generosity of spirit

:04:45.:04:51.

that we saw in him, the spirit of justice and fairness and honesty,

:04:52.:04:56.

and all those things, that we will see that in all our leaders around

:04:57.:05:03.

the world. When did you see him? I think I first saw him in Parliament

:05:04.:05:10.

Square as a young MP, when he came to, we opened the statue for him in

:05:11.:05:15.

Parliament Square. And then a bit later there was a concert in Hyde

:05:16.:05:21.

Park and I saw him again. Don't ask me what I said because I could

:05:22.:05:26.

barely speak, he was this magnificent big figure, even as an

:05:27.:05:34.

elder man. He met Mrs Thatcher and did lots of things. There wasn't

:05:35.:05:38.

anybody he wouldn't meet. That was what people were saying earlier.

:05:39.:05:44.

Actually don't you choose my friends for me said Jesse Jackson, he said

:05:45.:05:49.

he would speak to whatever he wished after going to jail? I want to say

:05:50.:05:55.

as a Labour politician people like Frank Dobson and Dick Hayburn caught

:05:56.:06:03.

up in the antiapartheid movement, were real foot soldiers for Oliver

:06:04.:06:09.

Tambo, there were a Kenship for a whole generation of Labour

:06:10.:06:12.

politicians and the union movement, in huge solidarity with South Africa

:06:13.:06:18.

when others didn't want to even join the cause. I think it is important

:06:19.:06:27.

to remember that tonight a real struggle breaking out in society

:06:28.:06:31.

with songs and albums and a youth movement. But if we think back to

:06:32.:06:36.

the 1980s at moments in Britain when we felt divided, there were many

:06:37.:06:41.

foot olders campaigning and raising money in the Labour Party, and also

:06:42.:06:46.

in wider society, the churches, who tonight will feel close to Mandela

:06:47.:06:57.

because of the struggle. I called him a giant of a man, a peaceful and

:06:58.:07:02.

loving gianted. There are so many towns all over Britain who have

:07:03.:07:07.

Mandela Square or buildings, it is somebody that you come across,

:07:08.:07:12.

children know about him. Oh yes, we do. And not only did we sing the

:07:13.:07:20.

songs # Free Nelson Mandela

:07:21.:07:25.

We actually lived with the sense of hope, almost like a Messiah figure,

:07:26.:07:29.

in a sense, but not a distant one, one that was present and one that

:07:30.:07:35.

was real. I think for me, as a Christian, this sense of

:07:36.:07:40.

forgiveness, which is at the heart. I visited Robben Island back in

:07:41.:07:45.

2002, I think it was, I went to Robben Island and actually went

:07:46.:07:51.

inside the cell. The whole time I was there, for me it was a spiritual

:07:52.:07:55.

experience, and I remember there were tourists there taking

:07:56.:07:59.

photographs and I was feeling quite cross saying, you know the story of

:08:00.:08:04.

Moses by the burning bush, where he is told to stake his shoes off

:08:05.:08:08.

because he as standing on holy ground. I felt myself thinking stop

:08:09.:08:13.

taking the photographs, you are on holy ground, you know. I just hope

:08:14.:08:23.

that the world will look at Nelson Mandela's life and will pattern

:08:24.:08:29.

those qualities that he exhibited. That sense of dignity, of quiet

:08:30.:08:36.

dignity, not many people have that. No, and in that sense he was a

:08:37.:08:51.

humble, but regal figure in a sense. All generations have these figures.

:08:52.:08:57.

But I think Nelson Mandela crossed so many generations from lawyer to

:08:58.:09:03.

freedom fighter, imprisoned, we don't see him for 27 years, we just

:09:04.:09:08.

have that poster of him and he comes out as a much older man, that moved

:09:09.:09:13.

lots of people. And then when you talk about buildings named after him

:09:14.:09:18.

often that was an act of rebellion in Britain in the 1970s to do that.

:09:19.:09:23.

Then this universal statesman-like figure that has emerged in the last

:09:24.:09:28.

20 years or so. That is a huge span of change over that lifetime,

:09:29.:09:36.

dignity throughout, but a rage and anger for freedom, for justice and

:09:37.:09:42.

for peace, I think is essential to the man's personality. That whole

:09:43.:09:46.

idea that he made such a massive sacrifice, and his family made a

:09:47.:09:50.

sacrifice? A huge sack fireworks I listened earlier to his --

:09:51.:09:56.

sacrifice, I listened earlier to his daughter speaking and the sense of

:09:57.:10:00.

distance she was talking about. I thought what do you expect, you have

:10:01.:10:04.

locked this man away, emotions, all these things. The sacrifice he has

:10:05.:10:08.

made, the sacrifice of his family, for the world. He comes out of

:10:09.:10:24.

prison and straight into the world? Where does he get the time to love.

:10:25.:10:29.

I just hope not only South Africa but the world will see his sense of

:10:30.:10:32.

justice, his sense of compassion, and clearly even for a very long

:10:33.:10:39.

time when he is not the leader of South Africa, he's still concerned

:10:40.:10:45.

about the well being of people. As we have said earlier, and is

:10:46.:10:48.

prepared to stand up and discuss things that he absolutely disagrees

:10:49.:10:52.

with in South Africa. Challenges the status quo, whether Thabo Mbeki or

:10:53.:11:03.

the problems in the ANC? On HIV, domestically on the ANC, on the Iraq

:11:04.:11:07.

War, on a whole range of things he took very different views to other

:11:08.:11:13.

leaders both in his country and throughout. I think lining up behind

:11:14.:11:17.

what he saw as social justice wherever he found it. And this idea

:11:18.:11:22.

that he would be remembered, there would be this enormous outpouring

:11:23.:11:26.

from all over the world, and then South Africa needs to move on again.

:11:27.:11:31.

Yes, and South Africa is at a critical junction, because I was

:11:32.:11:37.

there about a year ago and the ANC has to make this transition from the

:11:38.:11:45.

party that fought, if you like for freedom to a governing force that

:11:46.:11:49.

can be seen to be there for everyone and not just for a single group of

:11:50.:11:53.

people. There are elements particularly youth and younger

:11:54.:11:57.

elements I think within South Africa and within the ANC that are

:11:58.:12:00.

frustrated with the lack of progress. And also in a sense moving

:12:01.:12:08.

from being a one-party state to a multiparty democracy, that is very

:12:09.:12:12.

fragile. This may in a sense, because it rekick-starting this idea

:12:13.:12:16.

of goodness coming out of this in South Africa? I hope it will, I hope

:12:17.:12:23.

it will, and the potential is there for life to grow from this death as

:12:24.:12:33.

it were. I hope that we will see the beginnings of other Mandelas. I was

:12:34.:12:37.

going to say because actually what he has is he's almost delivered a

:12:38.:12:43.

blueprint for modern leadership? It is quite a lot to live up to. I

:12:44.:12:54.

think leadership, yes, but 27 years in prison, denied that life is an

:12:55.:12:59.

extraordinary sacrifice to have made as an individual. No-one can relief

:13:00.:13:04.

that, and we don't want anyone to relief that, so in a sense -- relive

:13:05.:13:13.

that, and in a sense that is part of the 21 century for freedom. It is

:13:14.:13:20.

for women, people of colour, more latterly for gay men and women to

:13:21.:13:24.

self-lateralise to be who you want to be, and he's one of the big

:13:25.:13:28.

fathers of that fight. We take it for granted now, but for most of the

:13:29.:13:38.

century it was denied us. It must be also for white people, it must be a

:13:39.:13:42.

huge burden to walk around thinking you are the only thing that matters!

:13:43.:13:47.

You know. So, yes. Will you be doing special service tomorrow, presumably

:13:48.:13:51.

parishioners will come and talk to you? I hope that we will not just

:13:52.:13:56.

tomorrow, but for some time, you know, helping people to reflect on

:13:57.:14:02.

this loss in a way that is going to be constructive and creative. Again,

:14:03.:14:10.

an extraordinary funeral, he wants and will be buried in a small

:14:11.:14:15.

village. It is impossible to imagine not to have some massive memorial

:14:16.:14:18.

service for him? Absolutely, you would expect a freedom and justice

:14:19.:15:41.

Nelson Mandela was not just a hero of our time but a hero of all time.

:15:42.:15:47.

The first President of a free South Africa. My thoughts and prayers are

:15:48.:15:53.

with him and his family at this time, an extraordinary man. I'm one

:15:54.:15:57.

of the countless millions who drew inspiration from Nelson Mandela's

:15:58.:16:00.

life. My very first political action, the first thing I ever did

:16:01.:16:06.

that involved an issue or policy or politics was a protest against

:16:07.:16:12.

apartheid. I would study his words and his writings, the day he was

:16:13.:16:17.

released from prison he gave me a sense of what human beings can do

:16:18.:16:21.

when guided by their hopes and not their fears. Like so many around the

:16:22.:16:27.

globe I cannot fully imagine my own life without the example that Nelson

:16:28.:16:35.

Mandela set. I'm joined now by the founder of the Specials, and the

:16:36.:16:40.

BBC's Creative Director. First of all, it was Jew song, the song that

:16:41.:16:44.

we all know now? Free Nelson Mandela. It was, yeah, it had an

:16:45.:16:57.

effect, I wrote it when I went to his 65th anniversary party at the

:16:58.:17:04.

Alexandra Palace, a lot of people singing about him, and I was already

:17:05.:17:10.

working on a song, I had a bit of instrumental music and I put the

:17:11.:17:13.

lyrics to that, which was probably the key to it being so happy.

:17:14.:17:20.

Otherwise I would have probably written a dour ballad or something.

:17:21.:17:26.

Alan, those son sets, there was 19 -- consorts, it was 1988 and 1990

:17:27.:17:32.

when he came? The concert the catalyst was the song. And the

:17:33.:17:37.

promoter came to me and brought some, a senior, an ex-BBC person to

:17:38.:17:45.

add gravitas to the person and really said will you do this. We had

:17:46.:17:51.

to depoliticise it because it was the BC, remember the Thatcher --

:17:52.:17:55.

BBC, remember the Thatcher Government was still in power, and

:17:56.:17:58.

there was still a sense that South Africa, that movement, the ANC

:17:59.:18:01.

movement and the antiapartheid Government couldn't be supported in

:18:02.:18:09.

quite that way. But there was Trevor Huddleston. Let me bring you in, you

:18:10.:18:20.

met Nelson Mandela? Not in the same space, he was frail at the time and

:18:21.:18:25.

the unveiling of the statue in Parliament Square. We heard David

:18:26.:18:31.

Lammy saying he couldn't say anything because he was overcome,

:18:32.:18:36.

culturally what has been the importance of Nelson Mandela? Well,

:18:37.:18:42.

it is, that is a very big question, he's been the great poetic figure of

:18:43.:18:50.

our time. In terms of represented freedom, integrity, his beauty of

:18:51.:18:56.

spirit, his love of dance, his sense of humour and his dress style. He

:18:57.:19:03.

championed an of a an aesthetic. I see him as being not only an African

:19:04.:19:08.

statesman but the commensurate statesman of our time of. The reason

:19:09.:19:13.

I say this is because he demonstrated more than anybody else

:19:14.:19:17.

in our times how you transfigure the great burden of suffering and

:19:18.:19:22.

expectation into forgiveness, grace and dignity. He held the hand of

:19:23.:19:27.

South Africa through its most difficult time and calmed the nerves

:19:28.:19:33.

of those who were afraid of what might befall it during that

:19:34.:19:36.

transition. He helped the nation become itself. And he taught all of

:19:37.:19:40.

us around the world how to bear difficulty with dignity. And to work

:19:41.:19:45.

with De Klerk and Botha to work with these people? To work with difficult

:19:46.:19:50.

and tricky people. One of his greatest legacies, actually, is

:19:51.:19:54.

time. I always say he taught us the wise use of time. He, for many other

:19:55.:20:00.

people 27 years would have been a great reservoir of bitterness and

:20:01.:20:05.

anger and rage, actually the 27 years was converted very quietly

:20:06.:20:10.

into political power and great respect and a kind of iconic

:20:11.:20:14.

authority. He turned time into something else. You have to go back

:20:15.:20:19.

to the great duddist amongst to see anything like that and its effect on

:20:20.:20:23.

world politics. As you were growing up, did he have a big influence on

:20:24.:20:29.

you, his incarceration? The first time I heard about him was his 65th

:20:30.:20:45.

birthday. Someone did a survey and they couldn't find Nelson Mandela's

:20:46.:20:50.

name in the Houses of Parliament but his name was starting to come out.

:20:51.:20:54.

If you think about the global audience. That was 600 million. We

:20:55.:21:00.

say now Geldof, all the things that have gone after, that was the

:21:01.:21:04.

revolutionary, to bring the world together on television to support

:21:05.:21:07.

him? We live in the world of the internet now and it is not so

:21:08.:21:11.

surprising that people can conGLE gate in that way -- congregate in

:21:12.:21:18.

that way. But to bring together 600 people, and the amazing thing about

:21:19.:21:22.

it is it grew, it started, someone would say yes and someone else

:21:23.:21:26.

would. Even for the BBC it was apolitical. Do you remember that

:21:27.:21:30.

day, the 1988 concert? Yes I do, I do, I watched it on TV, I couldn't

:21:31.:21:36.

afford to be there. For me it was a moment of great unity. One just felt

:21:37.:21:41.

even in your little room you felt you were connecting with a great

:21:42.:21:44.

movement all over the world. A great groundswell of desire to bring about

:21:45.:21:49.

this change and to free Nelson Mandela. It was one of those moments

:21:50.:21:57.

branded in one's memory in one's time here on the planet. You were up

:21:58.:22:00.

dancing with everyone? I was dancing in my little bedsit, yes. Thank you

:22:01.:22:05.

all very much indeed. That's all from this extended programme. We

:22:06.:22:09.

leave you with footage from the film about Nelson Mandela, starring Idris

:22:10.:22:18.

Elba, which had the UK premier scheduled tonight. I have cherished

:22:19.:22:21.

the idea of a free democratic society where all persons live

:22:22.:22:25.

together in harmony with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which

:22:26.:22:36.

I hope to live for and achieve. But, if needs be it is

:22:37.:22:38.

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