Browse content similar to 18/12/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The men appointed to decide what America's electronic eavesdroppers | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
should be allowed to do says it is time to put them on a timer leash. | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
But they don't recommend stopping the enormous surveillance programme. | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
The national security agency and its allies, like GCHQ, have details of | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
billions of phone calls and messages. Now the White House has to | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
decide whether they should be allowed to keep them. We will speak | :00:31. | :00:37. | |
to the journalist who exposed NSA snooping. | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
Three months on from the attack on the Nairobi shopping mall and no-one | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
even seems to know what became of the attackers. The brutality of the | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
strike was shocking but now Newsnight has heard increasing | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
suggestions of British-trained police unit is carrying out summary | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
executions. The British Government is helping the ATPO in Kenya kill | :00:58. | :01:05. | |
Muslims by training them and providing them with logistical | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
support and giving them money. This man is only the second professional | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
footballer in this country to come out about his sexuality, is it | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
harder to be gay in the beautiful game. Computer says no. We see how | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
the filthers meant to keep our children safe from pornography are | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
also denying them access to sites which could help them. To find that | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
a major ISP is blocking a really popular sex-education website is | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
really, really frustrating. I feel like they should be helping rather | :01:35. | :01:49. | |
than hindering us in this way. The White House wasn't going to make the | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
recommendations public yet. But tonight it was forced as a result of | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
a leak, funnily enough, to make public what the panel appointed by | :01:57. | :01:58. | |
President Obama thinks should be done to restore faith in America's | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
electronic intelligence-gathering system. Once the sheer scale of | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
National Security Agency snooping had been exposed by newspapers like | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
the Guardian, the pressure of opinion forced the President to look | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
at issuing new rules. Apart from anything else, a couple of days ago | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
federal judge ruled that the surveillance vie lated the American | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
institution -- violated the American constitution. We have been reading | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
the report, it is quite a big deal this, isn't it? T a big deal in the | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
little sense. More than 300-pages I have had to plough through in the | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
last hour-and-a-half, it is 36 recommendation, a lot of it dealing | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
with the Americans. This is a touchy issue, the collection of this met at | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
that data in the case of phone call, the number called, the number that | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
made the call, how long it lasted, that kind of detail. The panel | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
recommend that is this trove of stored phone met at that data on US | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
citizen, one trillion records be junked. They also recommend | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
tightening the rules on the certain court granting surveillance in the | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
US. Introducing a public interest or civil liberties advocate into the | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
court process to make it a more rigorous and argumentative process, | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
so they don't sign off on so many parents. Also there is stuff | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
clipping the wings of the NSA, something recommending that. Perhaps | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
a civilian director, make sure the director is confirmed by the Senate, | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
that is not the case currently to extend control on the agency. | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
Finally some recommendation about spying on foreigner, things like the | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
Angela Merkel phone calls we were hearing about, saying is that | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
necessary, a question the President himself had asked him to consider. | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
These are, as you stress, just recommendations aren't they? The | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
President will have to decide whether he's going to act on them? | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
They are recommendations. That said, it is a panel that includes a good | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
many Washington insiders, including Richard Clarke, counter terrorism | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
adviser to Republican and Democratic Presidents. We know that for example | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
on this collection met at that data, following that -- met at that data | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
following the ruling on Monday, it is already going against them in the | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
courts, it is highly likely they will have to move on the bulk | :04:21. | :04:28. | |
members metadata, but ultimately the President could rule it is against | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
the national interest to gather data on a bulk of topics and they will | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
continue to do so despite the regulation. What is meta-data? In | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
phone call terms, it is the number you have called, for how long and | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
your number, in internet terms it can be the page you looked at. What | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
it doesn't include, particularly in the sense of phone calls, and we | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
hear 60 million details were taken in Spain or whatever, it is what | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
actually people were saying. Glenn Greenwald is the former | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
Guardian columnist who helped bring the files taken by global leaker | :05:10. | :05:20. | |
Edward snoweden out. This report does suggest, doesn't it that the | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
NSA was in need of reform? It is one way to read it, with respect it is | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
the wrong way to read it. All this report does it suggest there is a | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
feeding frenzy in Washington, aided by promiscuous Snowden disclosures | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
by the media turning, if you will against this administration, which | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
up until now has been a media dearlying. And extreme opinions from | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
left and right. The marching orders for this commission this board has | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
been let as come up with a bunch of changes. It is really not a serious | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
dispassionate look at what is necessary for national security and | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
also whether or not there are any abuses. It is remarkable unlike all | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
the other episodes involving intelligence and reforms in this | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
country and others, there has been zero abuses. Nobody has done | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
anything wrong. Nobody has demonstrated that this level of | :06:17. | :06:25. | |
collection, meta-data or otherwise, this is a very unfortunate exercise. | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
This is a bipartisan inquiry, which has come up with conclusion about | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
the need for change? But what I'm trying to say I wouldn't get too | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
hung up on the question of who is bipartisan, Richard Glock, who used | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
to work for the administration is a technocrat. The pressure for change | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
is bipartisan, you have extreme right in the Republican Party, | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
particularly the TEA Party, and extreme left in the Democratic | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
party, and they are clamouring for it. Just because both sides are | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
clamouring doesn't make it right. My point is there is no seriously | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
well-conceived explanation of why the change is necessary. Either from | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
a standpoint of the operational needs of the intelligence community | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
in the age of global terror or the standpoint of abuses. What abuses | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
have been demonstrated. Weren't you surprised by the scale of it? By the | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
recommendations not at all. I'm so sorry I was unclear, I apologise, | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
weren't you surprised by the scale of surveillance that was disclosed | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
in these reports and leaks? No, quite frankly the biggest problem of | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
the disclosures is the level of sensationalism it brings. Most | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
people would understood that meta-data collection as we are | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
correspondent detailed about its collection. If you are looking for a | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
needle in a haystack, what sense does it make to have one half or one | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
third of a stack. You need to collect all of the meta-data, and | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
drill down on t and only do it in a limited fashion. I want to make sure | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
your viewers understand that, you are only looking for conversation on | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
which phone numbers were called or received called from a magic list of | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
phone numbers associated with foreign terrorist entities. That is | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
the only thing that is done as far as data analysis. You start with a | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
tremendous data set and you drill it down to maybe a list of a few | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
hundreds, or a couple of thousand. But any mathematician, any serious | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
scientist will tell you there is no other way to do that. You have to | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
start with the complete data set. I might get back to you in a minute or | :08:34. | :08:41. | |
two, I hope. Glenn Greenwald was the person who brought it to the public | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
attention on receiving the files. Do you think you have had a victory | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
here? It has been a huge victory, it is the whole week has been an | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
amazing victory. First a federal court, and not a liberal judge, one | :08:54. | :09:01. | |
appointed by George W Bush, a conservative judge said it violates | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
core privacy rights and said there was zero evidence that the NSA can | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
present saying these things were helpful in stopping terrorist plots. | :09:10. | :09:18. | |
And a group set up by President Obama and they said the name thing | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
that this pose as threat to liberty and it is not necessary to stopping | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
even a single terrorist plot. It is a complete vindication of everything | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
Mr Snowden said early on and we have been reporting for the last six | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
months. If it is acted upon will it meet your concerns? Well, there are | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
still a lot of details to be worked out f it is acted upon in full it | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
will be a very significant step to restoring individual privacy and | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
some meaningful controls on the NSA which are currently lacking, | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
absolutely. At that point your campaign ends, does it? No, remember | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
there are still a lot of other abuses that the NSA is engaged n | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
when it comes to spying on foreign national, not talking about | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
meta-data, but the content of their e-mails, telephone calls, browsing | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
histories, on-line chats. There are important regulatory constraints | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
that need to be imposed on the NSA that means they are abiding by the | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
rules. It is abusing its power the NSA, this is one important step to | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
curbing the domestic part of those abuses. This is a mechanism for | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
bringing the NSA under the control of the White House and other | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
regulatory authorities. What is wrong with that? The NSA is already | :10:35. | :10:42. | |
under the control of the White House because it is part of the defence | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
department. The way it reports to the President as Commander-in-Chief. | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
I'm not really sure what you are asking. It is already part of the | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
executive branch under the authority of the White House. For example, on | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
the question of the surveillance of foreign leaders, a particularly | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
contentious issue, the proposal here is such authorisation has to come | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
directly in the explicitly, in a particular case from the White | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
House? Right, well first of all I think most insiders and there has | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
been lots of people who have gone to reporters and said this, the White | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
House was already ware of the targeting of these leaders. Although | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
they deny it. Secondly the mere fact that the President approves of it | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
doesn't make it right, the President approves of all sorts of things like | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
imprisoning people at Guantanamo with no charges, and the current NSA | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
programme. And there is a consensus that people believe these are wrong. | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
More constraints is better, and they are heading in the right direction | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
clearly as a result of what Mr Snowden did. On the basis of these | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
recommendations would you be prepared to return to their rightful | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
owners such files as are currently in your possession? The rightful | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
owners of the information in these documents are the American people. | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
Who paid for them and whose Government should not have been | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
hiding these programmes from them. As a journalist I'm not going to | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
return anything to the Government until we are done with our | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
reporting, which means disclosing all of the news worthy item that is | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
are contained in these documents precisely because as we have seen | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
this week it brings about great debate, a strengthening of democracy | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
and serious reforms. I will continue to do that because I'm a journalist. | :12:25. | :12:32. | |
How long are you prepared to hang on to them for? I just gone done | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
telling you I will hangen to them, as are the New York sometimes, and | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
the Washington Post and other media organisations that have tens of | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
thousands of documents aside from me for as long as it takes to continue | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
to report on all of the news worthy items in them. Meaning things that | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
the people of the United States and around the world have a right to | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
know in terms of what is being done to their privacy and internet | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
freedom. Are there any items among these newsworthy items as you put | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
it, that you are not prepared to put it? As evidenced by the fact that we | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
have only published a very small portion of the documents we | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
received, despite having them for six months, of course there are | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
things that as a responsible journalist I would not publish, | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
including things that might help other states augment their | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
surveillance capabilities. I would not publish things the NSA has about | :13:27. | :13:34. | |
public privacy. I think it is clear my heself and the other newspapers | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
have been extremely judicious with the material we have been given | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
while reporting on them. Thank you for joining us. I hope that my guest | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
is still able to talk to us. Did you hear that? Yes, I'm frankly struck | :13:48. | :13:55. | |
by the hubris and arrogance of our guest, and NSA far from being a | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
rogue agency, it is one agency in the world most subject to political | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
controls, but fulsome judicial and congressional oversight. I would | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
tell your viewers that not a single agency is that much subject to | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
congressional and judicial oversight, but that is not enough | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
for the likes of your guest. Think for a second that one of the reasons | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
we suffered over 3,000 dead Americans in 9/11 is because we | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
didn't have meta-data collection programmes. We didn't know that | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
known terrorists from overseas were calling people, their confederates | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
in the United States. That is why the whole programme was institutes, | :14:41. | :14:48. | |
it is not a moshed a morbid desire to learn aboutth -- a morbid desire | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
to learn about things. What do you say about that accusation, you are a | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
menace? It is not an accusation, it is a fact. I think, I want to make a | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
very important point about this, ever since 9/11 the US and UK | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
Governments scream terrorism to justify everything they do, they | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
scream 9/11. And yet what we have had in the last few weeks is | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
senators on the Intelligence Committee who have said there is | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
zero evidence that the NSA can point to that these programmes help stop | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
terrorist plots. We had a court that said it just three days ago, a | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
George W Bush apppointee, federal judge, who said there is no evidence | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
the programme does that. Now we have an advisory board within the | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
executive round who just said the same thing that they can't prove and | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
there is no evidence that it helps to stop terrorism. All three | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
branches said what was just said is pure fear mongering, there is no | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
evidence for it. Screaming 9/11 no longer works to scare people and | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
justify Government programmes. We will cut across you. Thank you very | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
much indeed. Thank you. Thanks. In a moment we speak to the | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
professional footballer who felt he couldn't play before British crowds | :16:01. | :16:10. | |
as an openly gay man. You may recall our coverage a few | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
weeks of the Bitcoin phenomenon. It is a virtual currency that seduced | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
many who don't trust Government. Early last year a Bitcoin was worth | :16:22. | :16:35. | |
$5, and they went up. Now we are worth a lot less. The bank | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
responsible is the bank in China. It has no physical existence and can be | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
carried on a memory stick, it is the antithesis of what the Communist | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
Party stands for. They are banning the buying of goods with Bitcoin. | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
The vision behind it is remarkable. Lots of uses are some what shady. It | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
is symbolic of the concern China has about losing their grip on capital | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
controls. Currencies are all about confidence, if enough people accept | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
them as payment you know you can buy what you want and accept them too. | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
In a prison it might be cigarette, on the Internet it is encrypted | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
message that is you buy and send to other users to pay for your beer or | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
cake. Bitcoin, today confidence in Bitcoin collapsed. Today has been an | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
amazing day in the Bitcoin world. With interesting but concerning news | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
from China. The issue is the Chinese Government has stopped the payment | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
processor from allowing the normal Chinese population to deposit money | :17:40. | :17:48. | |
into the biggest exchange in the world. Chinese people will find it | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
difficult to buy Bitcoin in future. If it went in too easily it would | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
become worth nothing. Its supply is controlled. Not by a Central Bank, | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
users accept a protocol which restricts the supply of new Bitcoins | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
to 150 of them per hour. While supply is restricted demand for | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
Bitcoin has rocketed. Fed by the growing belief that it is credible | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
and legal. At the start of the year one Bitcoin would cost you $13. 28. | :18:14. | :18:23. | |
The price rose as traders guessed that the US would accept it as a | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
legitimate exchange. And that happened. | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
By the end of today it was worth less than half that. Imagine the | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
pound rose by 40% one day and next month fell by 30%. Either of those | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
events would be big enough to be regarded as a currency crisis to | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
throw any Government into panic. That has what led critics of Bitcoin | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
say it is too volatile to be seen as a currency, more like a get rich | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
quick scheme. Bitcoin is no in no ready to be called a currency, given | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
the volatility we have seen over the past few weeks, it has halved in | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
value. Merchants can't use it as a medium of exchange, because they | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
don't know the value of T we saw a guy buy a car in the United States | :19:11. | :19:19. | |
for $103,000, and paid for it with Bitcoin, the value of Bitcoin halved | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
and the dealership is down 50%. A month ago the much followed | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
financial blogger was asked the financial question. Can you explain | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
in an entirely understandable way what a Bitcoin. It is a electronic | :19:33. | :19:40. | |
currency just like money without any state interference. He believes that | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
the Bitcoin supply means it will be stronger in the long run than normal | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
currencies where central banks create billions from midair? Bitcoin | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
would say this the British pound, clearly the British pound supplies | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
infinate, the Bank of England can print any number if they want. Any | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
time they make a mistake they print more, that is a debasement of the | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
currency. So Bitcoin is capped at 21,000. These pounds are backed by | :20:14. | :20:24. | |
nothing. Don't do that! Today Bernat the US said it was slowing down its | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
production of the dollar. The dollar only moved slightly, that is how the | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
Fed like its currency nice and steady. | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
It is three months since the world was transfixed by a terrorist attack | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
on that symbol of western capitalism a shopping mall in Nairobi, nearly 0 | :20:42. | :20:48. | |
people died. Much of the attack was filmed on CCTV and the world's media | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
awaited outside. All this time later the authorities in Kenya don't even | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
know for certain how many people were involved in the attack on the | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
west gate Mal -- Westgate Mal, or if any of the takers are still alive. | :21:04. | :21:06. | |
There are increasing voices raised to suggest that in the aftermath | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
parts of the Kenyan place are meting out summary justice to those they | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
suspect of being involved in Islamic terrorism. | :21:20. | :21:32. | |
A coastal paradise and gateway for terrorists. We're on the trail of | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
the Westgate attackers. We have travelled to the lawless no man's | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
land where their journey began. People are running away from | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
Somalia, even the Al-Shabab and they are now escaping. ??FORCEDWHI It is | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
a journey that would end in a four-day siege that would car a | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
nation, what happened to the attackers? Could they have escaped | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
during a bungled security operation. The intell begins officers told me | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
they slipped out of Westgate and left the country. Insiders and | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
radicals paint a picture of a dysfuntional, inept Security | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
Service, funded by the west and lashing out at those they see as a | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
threat. The British Government is helping the ATPO in Kenya kill | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
Muslims by training them and providing them with logistical | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
support and giving them money. Is Britain complicit in extra judicial | :22:31. | :22:39. | |
killings in Kenya. We set off from Lamu on Kenya's coast, we are | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
heading north towards the border with Somalia, it was somewhere here | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
towards the end of June four men slipped quietly into Kenya. Those | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
men would go on to carry out one of the deadliest attacks ever seen in | :22:55. | :23:02. | |
the region. Al-Shabab and Al-Qaeda affiliates said it planned and | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
executed the Westgate take in retaliation for Kenya's invasion of | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
Somalia two years ago. That invasion was supposed to secure the country's | :23:14. | :23:21. | |
borders. But the Border Force is overstreched, and the Westgate | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
attackers took advantage of that fact to enter Kenya through this | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
area. This block of concrete here marks the end of Kenya. Beyond this | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
a little bit of no man's land and then Somalia. And standing here, it | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
is easy to imagine what a challenge it must be to secure this border. | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
Both the kilometres of shoreline and the cakers -- acres upon acres of | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
bush and scrubland. No fence separates the two countries. Police | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
are underequipped and understaffed. And yet the local police chief says | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
he's received no reinforcements since Westgate. People are running | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
away from Somalia, even the Al-Shababs, they are now escaping | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
from Somalia, trying to penetrate into Kenya and to go in other | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
directions. How often do you catch people? Let's say five, six people | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
per week. How many do you think you are not watching? -- catching? For | :24:25. | :24:34. | |
us the border is I'm sure people penetrating without us catching | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
them. We now know that once inside Kenya the Westgate attackers made | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
their way to Nairobi, where they spent three months planning the | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
attack with the help of local Al-Shabab operatives, in an area | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
known as Eastleigh, or little Mogadishu. On the day of the attack | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
itself there was chaos. It took the security forces more than an | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
hour-and-a-half to reach the scene. By the mid-afternoon the | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
paramilitary police seemed to have the militants pinned down. CCTV only | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
ever shows four likely armed attacker, not 15, as the Kenyans had | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
initially claimed. But then the army came in and that's when things | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
started to go wrong. What happened is there was a lack of co-ordination | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
and each unit was coming in with its own command and you see the way the | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
operation was bungled. When the army in everyone else was kicked out, | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
this is where the operation started going badly. Three months after the | :25:34. | :25:44. | |
attack, outside Westgate, young men shift sift through a mountain of | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
rubble. They are still finding bullet cartridges in the rubble | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
three months later. They are looking for stuff bigger than that to sell. | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
But somewhere in. United States the FBI is still analysing that they | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
found inside Westgate, they think they have the remains of three, | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
possibly four individuals. They are testing them for DNA, at the moment | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
they don't really know if they belong to the attackers. | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
They may have been killed, but it is possible that they got away, escaped | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
during the confusion of the siege. The truth is, at the moment even the | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
investigators don't know. Less than two weeks after Westgate, young | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
Muslim men clashed with police on the streets of Mombasa, Kenya's | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
second city. The night before a radical preacher by the same of | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
Ibrahim Rogo had been gunned down in his car as he travelled on the | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
outskirts of the city. His supporters believe he was mud bird | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
the Kenyan Security Services, specifically by an outfit known as | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
the Anti- Terror Police Unit, or the ATPU. Officially members of the | :26:58. | :27:08. | |
Kenyan Antit-Terror Police Unit deny any invest -- any involvement in | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
these murders. One was prepared to talk off the record. He told me the | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
justice system in Kenya is not favourable to the work of the police | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
so we opted to eliminate them. We identify you, we gun you down in | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
front of your family and we begin with the leaders. The aterror police | :27:25. | :27:35. | |
United knit gets equipment and training from the UK. A report has | :27:36. | :27:42. | |
been compiled detailing dozens of cases of terror, torture and | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
rendition carried out by the ATPU. I was following this, I wept to the | :27:48. | :27:55. | |
morgue, and attended post mortems, ATPU, they are confirming this. That | :27:56. | :28:02. | |
is the reality, they can't disclose things, but the reality is they want | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
to impress British, Americans and the world. Because they are getting | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
funding from the Americans, because they are getting training from the | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
British, no. The international community should go back to the | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
drawing board. Few doubt that Kenya does have a | :28:23. | :28:30. | |
problem with radicalisation. Abubakar Shariff Ahmed appears on UN | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
and US sanctions lists. He's accused of being a leading facilitator and | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
recruiter of young Kenyan Muslims for violent militant activity in | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
Somalia. It is the same thing as telling a young man go, to the | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
mosque and pray. It is the same thing as telling a young man, fast | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
in Ramadan. It is the same thing to tell a young man your Muslim brother | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
has been invaded in Somalia, go and help him. That is Islam. He denies | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
recruiting for salt Shabab, but he says the Kenyan Security Services | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
are systematically targeting those they perceive as a threat. They are | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
precementing attacks by -- pre-empting attacks by those they | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
think is a potential attacker or those who have who is potentially an | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
instigator of attack. Are they picking up the right people? Mostly | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
question, but also no. Do you fear for your safety? I don't fear for my | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
safety, I know they are going to kill me. I'm a true Muslim, I | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
believe my life and death is in the hand of lamb. I will try dye -- of | :29:40. | :29:48. | |
Allah. I will die the day Allah decides. Some involved in counter | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
terrorism in Kenya say the country's legal system is hampering their | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
effos. If the police are involved in this it is out of frustration, | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
because they have specific facts. They have done collectively their | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
own intelligence. Probably they know this person is actually involved in | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
terrorism. But you take him to court, tomorrow he is out on bond | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
doing the same things. Estimates for youth unemployment in | :30:15. | :30:20. | |
Kenya are as high as 80%. In mom bassia you don't have to -- Mombasa, | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
you don't have to look hard for young Muslim men who believe the | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
state has little to offer them, and the attempts to stem radicalisation | :30:32. | :30:38. | |
has having the reverse effect. The Antit-Terror Police Unit they are | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
killing us, as Muslims. They are killing our mothers. I'm not a | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
Kenyan, I have no citizenship of this country. As Muslims we are | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
being squeezed. I have no problem if they join Al-Shabab or Al-Qaeda, it | :30:54. | :31:00. | |
is part of Jihad. That is Jihad, everyone should and can go and meet | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
his brothers there. It is about his beliefs only. In a statement the | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
Foreign Office said it took allegations of human rights abuse | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
very seriously. But that the British Government was working with the | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
Kenyan authorities to tackle threats to UK interests. When the Olympic | :31:20. | :31:28. | |
diver Tom Daley announced that he was dating a man, he wondered | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
whether it was easier to make such a declaration if you were an | :31:34. | :31:35. | |
individual sportsman than if you were part of a team. Shortly we will | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
find out. Because we're about to hear from the footballer, Robbie | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
Rogers. It was only after he left Leeds | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
United that the US-born Rogers announced in February his retirement | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
as a professional footballer, and the fact that he was gay. He became | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
the first man to do so in Britain since Justin Fashanu came out in | :31:59. | :32:04. | |
1990. Writing in his blog he said. D.. | :32:05. | :32:18. | |
But within a couple of months he was back on the field, this time on home | :32:19. | :32:25. | |
territory as a soccer player for LA Galaxy, citing the fact he had a | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
platform to be a role model. He felt it would be cowardly not to play | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
again. But there was sufficient homophobia still about that the | :32:34. | :32:41. | |
fight was far from over. The campaign BEYOND It, has been very | :32:42. | :32:43. | |
successful in the United States. This week he has joined up with his | :32:44. | :32:51. | |
old club, Leeds United to launch the campaign here. Why are you the only | :32:52. | :33:01. | |
, second person to come out? It is the atmosphere in the locker room | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
and stadiums. It was growing up as a footballer and hearing things in | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
locker rooms that really scarred me and made me believe it wasn't | :33:08. | :33:15. | |
possible. Homophobic comments? Yeah. Was this because they were directed | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
at you or just general talk? General talk. General talk for example like | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
how someone could even be gay, that would be a discussion in a football | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
locker room. How did you feel when you heard that? I felt awful, of | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
course, but I would avoid the conversation, I would go more into | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
myself and repress that kind of stuff. It got to a point when I was | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
24, 25, I was like all right I can't live this way. You came out just | :33:45. | :33:51. | |
after you announced your retirement at the same time? I came tout my | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
family in October -- I came out to my family in October/November and | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
planned to stop football, I didn't know what the reaction would be. | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
What was the reaction? Very, very supportive. Which was the exact | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
opposite that I thought would happen. My family from the first | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
second I told them was very supportive, and that's in the end | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
why I went back to football. Do you worry about how the fans would have | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
taken it if you were still playing? In England, yeah. It is great | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
question. No-one has done it, so that was my fears. I had no-one to | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
look up to test those waters for me before I went out there. I did it | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
back in the US because it is not as big a spotlight on football. My | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
family is in LA, if I was really struggling I could always just go | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
home. But I mean eventually someone will do it and footballers will do | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
it, that will be interesting to see. By the law of averages there must be | :34:49. | :35:01. | |
a lot of gay men playing football? I haven't had one text or phone calls | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
about it. I have spoken to friends here and around the UK who have | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
supported me, but not one message from a footballer. What do you | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
deduce from that? It reminds me of the fear that I had and I'm, | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
sometimes you forget when you are on the other side, but you remember | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
that atmosphere and how it made you feel. By the law of averages there | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
are lots of gay footballers? Yeah I know, that shows you there is a huge | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
problem. What do you do to change that, you try to support them and | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
create an environment that is, that would support them to come out and | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
that they would feel comfortable in. But it is really tough. Do you in | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
any sense wish you had done it while you were still an active player? I'm | :35:47. | :35:54. | |
an active player now. But at the end you said you were quitting? No, I am | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
happeny the way I did it, goat to step away and take time for myself, | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
I didn't have people dragging me to do interviews or anything like that. | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
I was in total control and say what I wanted to say. You feel now you | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
have some sort of duty? No, yeah I do. I know when I realised I'm the | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
only one that's doing this. So you know after months of taking some | :36:18. | :36:19. | |
time for myself and receiving letters from people I realised I was | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
being a coward by not going back to football. And I missed it, and it | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
was something I have done my whole life, so I did feel the | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
responsibility. And what was it like when you discovered that your | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
anxiety about how people would react had been misplaced? Yeah, there was | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
two sides of it, sometimes people say do you think footballers make a | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
bigger deal out of it than it is, or athletes. I say nor, no, definite -- | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
no, definitely not, they are not coming out because they hear so many | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
things that scare them. My mom said to me I think have you learned that | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
you should give people a chance as well. Give people a chance to get to | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
know you and to see that, yes you are a footballer, you are gay, but | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
there are more sides to you. I did learn that lesson from this, to be | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
open with people and give people a chance. Were your parents surprised? | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
Yes and no, they say sometimes they were, and then they said you dated | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
girls and you threw us off. I'm like OK. That is what I have heard from | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
everybody, I guess I was a good actor. Do you think it is harder to | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
come out if you are playing a team sport as opposed to an individual | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
sport? I haven't played any individual sport, I can speak from | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
my experience and my biggest fear was going back into a locker room | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
and the thought of being treated as an outcast, that was the one thing I | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
didn't want to do. Playing a team sport obviously you are dealing with | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
all those permties and people from all around the world. Is it to do | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
with being naked in the locker room together? No, it is sitting there | :37:53. | :38:01. | |
with all the guys, the banter and talking and trying to fit in all | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
that stuff. It is the team and you are brothers and you fight every | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
week to win a game together. To be outcasted from a group like that and | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
you are there every day is awful. I felt inside that way, but I wasn't | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
treated, no-one knew I was gay. No-one accused me or pointed a | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
finger at me. They didn't know. Do you think it was an unfounded fear? | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
No, because it was the things that I heard my whole life that scared me. | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
From a very conservative Catholic family I'm, from in calm foreignia, | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
I have been playing football my whole life, the things I heard in | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
stadiums and locker rooms made me think I could not play soccer and | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
come out. They are not talking about you? But they are talking about | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
people on the streets, and how could you even be gay man or fall in love | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
with a man. I'm hearing these conversations and riding the bike | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
and thinking this is not the atmosphere for me. In retrospect it | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
was not something you needed to fear? If hi come out and said | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
actually wait, it would have been awkward, but after a few days or a | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
week they would have gotten over it. I'm hoping other athletes will do | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
it. Thank you. As we all know one of the main functions of the internet | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
is to facilitate masturbation, or worse, the Prime Minister has made | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
it his mission to protect children from the called adult material | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
that's there and has encouraged the broadband companies and search | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
engines to install room felters. But news -- felters, but Newsnight has | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
found rather than stopping teenagers clicking through to pornography, | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
some are preventing access to sexual health and rape advice sites. | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
Companies say they still have serious concerns about the whole | :39:55. | :39:55. | |
idea. Politicians are worried about the | :39:56. | :40:19. | |
massive internet traffic to porn sites. There are things that are | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
direct danger to the children that must be stamped out. 82% of British | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
people are really worried about how easy it is to access porn, it is | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
unique that people feel so helpless about this. Porn is the most | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
frequent search term on Google, we cannot allow an industry that make | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
millions out of porn month on month to dictate the pace of change. We | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
have come a long way from the old familiar face of the industry. Soho | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
in London. After pressure from newspapers and child safety | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
campaigners, the Government had little choice but to act. The big | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
internet firms were told to block porn by default to watch any | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
restricted content a customer will have to change his or her broadband | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
settings. Basic parental controls have of course been around for | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
years, but in general you have to go to the trouble of installing | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
software on your computer itself, which then blocks certain websites. | :41:15. | :41:23. | |
These new network-level filteres are much more sophisticated. BT is | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
letting me log on and block sites not from my laptop but the Internet | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
connection itself. Any gadgets from games consoles to phones should be | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
covered by the filter in the same way. TalkTalk was the first big | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
company to do this, the others have caught up, with Sky and BT launching | :41:48. | :41:59. | |
their porn F ilters with their children. Lots of parents find it | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
difficult to talk to their children about sex and porn. I hope that will | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
change, and through the initiatives some of the conversations will take | :42:08. | :42:10. | |
place. We still have a responsibility to do what we can at | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
a technical level, not perfect, not enough, but we still have a | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
responsibility to try to help with technical solutions, wherever we | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
can. As you can see here, this is your site, this is now not running | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
on the TalkTalk network. But critics say internet filters are a blunt | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
instrument, Justin Hancock runs one of the most popular sex education | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
sites on the Internet for under-18s, nothing pornographic here. On the | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
system click on that you will see it is blocked straight away.? When you | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
switch to the TalkTalk network his site is suddenly unavailable. It is | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
coming up as a porn site. Broadband companies will say this was probably | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
just an oversight, if you contact them they will get the block removed | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
and everything will be fine again? They might fix my site in the | :43:07. | :43:09. | |
short-term, what about all the other sites out there for young people. | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
Not just sex education websites but support forums for young people | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
around sex and relationship, the young people who are lesbian, gay, | :43:17. | :43:25. | |
bisexual or trans, who are TalkTalk to say what is allowed or not. When | :43:26. | :43:32. | |
we looked their porn filter also blocks other sex education sites and | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
Labour party crisis centre. And BT banned a connection to a number of | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
domestic violence charities. In its advertising BT boasts its new filter | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
gives peace of mind anywhere in the home, Talk Talk says it protests you | :43:47. | :43:54. | |
on-line. All the filteres perform reasonably | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
well in a test. BT and Sky let through one of 68 popular adult | :43:59. | :44:07. | |
sites, TalkTalk let through more. Scratch beneath the surface and | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
plenty of ex-police the material is easily available. The Internet chat | :44:12. | :44:19. | |
board, Read It, hosts adult content. This is one of the tamest pictures, | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
none blocked. The industry may support this idea, | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
in private it is another matter. One major broadband company told us it | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
has deep reservations about the entire exercise, which it says is | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
just pandering to the daily Mail, others say it is a result of lobby | :44:41. | :44:49. | |
by Christian groups. Not one of the four large internet service | :44:50. | :44:51. | |
providers would talk on camera. So we came to the offices of one of | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
their smaller competitors, the boss here is a father of five and he's | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
far from convinced porn filteres are the answer. How do the systems, the | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
blocking system, how do he they know what to block and what to let | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
through? This is the challenge, you can't have a roomful of people | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
trying to find dodgy website, you have to start with looking for key | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
words. It is an arms industry. The porn industry is a legitimate | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
commercial industry they will fight back. They will find ways to move | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
their websites around to bypass the blocks to make them encrypted this. | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
Will allow people to get to them whether they are kids or not. The | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
official line from all the big broadband companies is there is no | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
single solution and any filtering system won't work perfectly to begin | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
with. There are systems in place to correct any mistakes. Even one of | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
the Government's own advisers on internet safety thinks all this is | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
making it harder, not easier for parents. I think there is a huge | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
risk at the moment and I think it is, it comes out of a desire to do | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
the right thing, but there is a very big risk that we are focussing so | :46:00. | :46:08. | |
heavily on filters and all of the ISPs having them and public Wi-Fi | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
having them, the message is getting through to parents that the filteres | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
will do the job, but no filter will be perfect, even if they were | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
perfect there is still a job for parents to do. The Government has | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
told Newsnight it has now asked its advisers to check that sex advice | :46:29. | :46:35. | |
sites are not being sensored. -- censored. Any quick fix won't be the | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
answer, it might be possible to control a red light district, but | :46:42. | :46:44. | |
can authorities hope to control something like the Internet in the | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
first place. That's about it for tonight. The | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
Bank of England announced a major plastic monetary innovation today. | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
One of our producers stress tested it. Good night. | :46:57. | :47:26. | |
# You took my by surprise I must say # When I found out yesterday | :47:27. | :47:34. | |
# Don't you know # I heard it through the grapevine | :47:35. | :47:44. | |
# Not much longer will you be mine # I heard it through | :47:45. | :47:45. |