Browse content similar to 16/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It is almost half a century old. But is the Aorganisation Act fit for | :00:10. | :00:17. | |
purpose in the modern world. With abortion going ahead on the basis of | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
gender, we will debate whether it is time to update legislation. | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
Tomorrow Ed Miliband will give us a clue as to how Labour will run the | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
economy. Today George Osborne tried to get in his pre-emptive attack. | :00:31. | :00:38. | |
Tonight, what does Vincent Cable think? The UK gives Nigeria hundreds | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
of millions in aid. So why have we been unable to prevent antigay | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
legislation coming into force there. I fear for my family and my friends. | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
I fear for every ordinary lesbian, gay, transsexual, transgender people | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
in Nigeria. And it is a very exciting time if you are a solar | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
scientist, because the sun has fallen asleep. What difference will | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
that make to predictions of rising global temperatures in the future. | :01:08. | :01:22. | |
Good evening, in 1967 in an attempt to end backstreet aorganisations, a | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
law was introduce -- abortion, a law was introduced in England Scotland | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
and Wales, almost five decades later, 185,000 terminations were | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
performed. Including a minority including women who had one because | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
they were expecting a girl. According to the Independent | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
Newspaper. Some campaigners say the Abortion Act is no longer fit for | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
purpose, and needs updating. It comes at the same time as figures | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
obtained by a Conservative MP, a member of the all-party pro-life | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
group, shows that in nearly half cases doctors sign off abortions | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
without having met the woman whose termination they are approving. The | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
1967 legislation requires two doctors sign a consent form "in good | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
faith", but it doesn't require face-to-face assessment. For nearly | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
five decades the 1967 Abortion Act has remained relatively unchanged. | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
Increasingly on both sides of the debate there are calls for reform. | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
Even the law's architect says it is out of date. In 67 the only method | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
of abortion was surgery. And that is no longer the case. Also the law in | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
the rest of Europe has changed and most of our European neighbours | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
allow a woman's right to choose up to about the 13th week of pregnancy. | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
That we don't allow. There are two major issues which I think need to | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
be addressed. What would concern you most do you think about revisiting | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
that law? My anxiety about an inquiry is that those who are | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
campaigning against abortion all the time will want to try to use it to | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
restrict the law. And that would be a mistake. The 1967 act doesn't | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
state explicitly that abortion is a woman's right. Instead the law says | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
that two doctors kittying in food faith -- acting in good faith can | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
permit a termination when it is in the medical interests of a pregnant | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
woman or her unborn child. That wording is just as contentious today | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
as the day it was written. Abortion rights campaigners say the language | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
smacks of 1960s paternalism, a "do knows best" attitude, saying women | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
are incapable of making this decision in a serious way. We would | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
say there is room for it to be extended so it trusts women to make | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
the decision. At the moment women need to go to their doctor and get | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
two doctors' signatures to sign off on a legal medical procedure. You | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
don't need two doctors' signatures to go through brain surgery. We | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
don't see why this is special. But special is exactly what this | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
procedure is. It should be harder for women to get access to it, say | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
those outraged and upset that nearly 200,000 women had abortions last | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
year. I would like to see the law tightened so that we see a reduction | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
in the number of abortions, certainly no more children being | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
aborted for minor physical elements and certainly recognising that there | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
have been scientific breakthroughs in antenatal care and neonatal care. | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
We have to get the term limit down from 24 weeks at least to 22 weeks. | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
What concerns people on both sides of the argument is the issue of | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
gender selection. The idea that in some communities women are aborting | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
girl foetuses. Until recently the Government said this wasn't | :04:54. | :04:55. | |
happening in significant numbers. But research commissioned by the | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
Independent Newspaper has forced the Department of Health to launch an | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
investigation. The natural ratio of boys to girls means for every 100 | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
girls born there are about 105 boys born. But the independent found that | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
the sex ratio of second born children in the UK was heavily | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
boy-biased in the families of mothers born in Afghanistan and | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
Pakistan. And this might be the case in families of mothers born in | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
Bangladesh. They say the statistics suggest that there are between 1,400 | :05:26. | :05:33. | |
and 4,700 missing girls within all these ethnic groups living in | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
England and Wales. My reaction to the independent report is neither of | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
shock or surprise. But of deep disappointment. That this is still | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
going on and it is not settling down. As far as the UK is concerned | :05:48. | :05:55. | |
4,700 girls which are missing is a very significant number for a small | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
country like the UK. I know of at least 12 families in the Midlands | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
area who have been in touch with me, who have all of them actually | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
travelled to India to get this sex selective abortion done. It is not | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
hard to understand why it has been more than 20 years since the | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
Abortion Act was last amended. It is not just Westminster that is | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
nervous. So too are the campaigners. Worried that the other side might | :06:21. | :06:27. | |
gain more from any new legislation. We have If you are is -- Anne Furedi | :06:28. | :06:36. | |
is the chief executive of the Pregnancy Advisory Service and my | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
other guest is with me. Does the legislation need updating? It has | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
worked pretty well for the last 45 years but it definitely needs | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
updating now. There is a big question about whether abortion | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
needs to be covered by criminal legislation in this way. I mean | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
really the best person to decide on whether she should continue a | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
pregnancy is the woman herself. You would relax it, in effect? I think | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
that it won better if abortion were removed from the criminal law. If | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
women were able to make decisions, and indeed if the people who carried | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
out abortions were the people who were clinically able to do them, | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
that includes nurses as well as doctors. Clare Gerada, if a woman | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
can have an abortion because she's expecting a girl and a girl isn't | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
wanted, does that suggest to you there are flaws with the 1967 act? I | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
think we need to separate out those two issues, and separate out a small | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
minority who chose to abort a female foetus from the overall picture of | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
making sure that women have good access to safe abortion. And | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
actually I agree with Anne, I think we should look at the Abortion Act. | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
There are many things that can be improved. For example women need two | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
signatures on what is called "the blue form". When women have medical | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
terminations, where they take a pill, they have to come back to the | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
clinic two days later to collect the second pill and take the second pill | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
on site, and end up then having to travel possibly even having the | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
miscarriage on the tube or the bus going home. We need to separate out | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
those two issues. Let me ask you specifically about the gender | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
selection abortion, a minority but they are going on. It suggests that | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
women are effectively having to lie about their reasons for having an | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
abortion, because if they went to a clinic and said I want to abort this | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
foetus because it is female, they would be denied an abortion, so they | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
say there might be mental health problems? I'm in a woman, I wouldn't | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
be in favour of aborting myself just because of gender. I have looked at | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
those figure, the figures you have there, and the figures that the | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
Independent printed today. It is not as clear-cut as it is. Actually | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
there has always been more men than women, since figures first began in | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
the 1930s. The ratio between women and men has actually dropped so | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
whatever is happening it is not with losing lots of women, it is a very | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
complex issue. But equally I would like to repeat, what we must make | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
sure we do is give women timely and access to good and safe abortion. | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
And also, as your piece said, better access to contraceptive advice, and | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
better access to other ways to avoid an unwanted pregnancy. Anne Furedi, | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
are you saying that nurses should be able to sign off abortions and that | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
nurses should be able to carry out the procedure? What I'm saying is it | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
is really time, I believe, for a review on where abortion sits in our | :09:45. | :09:52. | |
lives and women do need abortion as, they need it as a back up to their | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
contraception. Because contraception fails them and sometimes we fail to | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
use it properly. That abortion should be able to be carried out by | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
people who are clinically competent do it. Whether it is nurses, or | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
indeed whether it is doctors. That women shouldn't have to demonstrate | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
that they need grounds laid down by politicians, because that makes no | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
sense, and I also really think that we should face up to the fact that | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
women in the north of Ireland should have exactly the same access to | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
abortion care as women in the rest of the UK. So society has really | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
moved on and I think it is time that the Abortion Act moved on. So you | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
really would want to see politicians, some of whom have very | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
entrenched views on both sides, you would really want to see the Commons | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
revisit the 1967 Abortion Act? What I believe very clearly is that if | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
we're going to have fundamental change on this, then politicians | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
will have to make that change. There is no way that it should be done | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
through the back door. We're a democratic society, politicians | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
should decide on our laws. But, no, I'm not worried about politicians | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
opening this question up. Because I think the overwhelming majority of | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
people in this country understand that abortion is a part of modern | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
life. A regrettable part, perhaps, but a part nonetheless. Would you be | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
worried about politicians revisiting it? I would be, they should and we | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
need to review the act. But I would be very worried about going | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
backwards, tightening up. You heard in the piece about using legislation | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
to prevent women having terminations. Actually we need to be | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
using education to prevent women needing terminations, not | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
legislation to prevent women, once they have an unwanted pregnancy so | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
like your piece I would be quite concerned about some of the views | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
that some of our politicians hold, which would make it harder for women | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
to have terminations. If there is a majority in the Commons? Listen, I | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
have been a doctor for my entire life, with the Abortion Act in | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
place, I have never had to work pre-1967 where women died because | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
they couldn't access a safe termination. Women will die if they | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
can't access safe terminations of pregnancy, I certainly don't want to | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
see that happening. If you want to go back to see when | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
the sun was this inactive in terms of the minimum we must have had and | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
the peak we had, you have to go back 100 years. | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
Ever since the Labour Party Conference last year Ed Miliband has | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
been making hay on the cost of living. On a speech today on the | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
cost of living he will seek to build that momentum, with a pitch to | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
constrict the power of the banks. Today, George Osborne launched a | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
pre-emptive attack, with an intervention on the minimum wage, | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
that a decade would have had Tories choking on their morning cornflake, | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
we will hear from Emily Maitlis in a second. First, this is what he said. | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
Just as we were all in this together in the crisis, I want to make sure | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
we're all in this together in the recovery. And because we're fixing | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
the economy, because we're working through our plan, I believe Britain | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
can afford an above inflation increase in the minimum wage. So we | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
restore its real value for people and we make sure we have a recovery | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
for all and that work always pays. It is quite interesting, isn't it, | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
to hear the Chancellor saying those words, he wants to restore the real | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
value of the minimum wage, which is dropped in real terms, we know, | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
since 2008. I imagine the Lib Dems will be hopping mad to hear their | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
language and words coming out of his mouth today. He's clearly at pains | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
to make clear that because of his tough choices this is something | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
Britain can now afford to do. Last week we had the ?12 billion of | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
welfare cuts announced. This is George Osborne saying we haven't | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
forgotten those at the bottom of the pile. We know we need to do | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
something. The Tories very keen to try not to incur that "nasty party" | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
rhetoric once again. What do we know about the wage, the level, he hasn't | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
said what the rate s he has been careful to remind us it is set by an | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
independent body, the Low Pay Commission. He said if it had | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
followed inflation it would be ?7 an hour by 2015/16. That is a pretty | :14:24. | :14:31. | |
strong hint. We know the minimum wage sits at ?6 an hour. That is | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
Anne crease of maybe 10%. What is intriguing is the politics of the | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
timing of it. I reported last week that there was a move on the minimum | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
wage in the air. I don't think the timing, just the night before Ed | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
Miliband's major speech on the economy. The first time we have seen | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
the leader of the opposition this year was a coincidence. The | :14:54. | :15:06. | |
Conservative Party years before was not on the prime minister page, but | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
it is on the right page now, it has rescued the British economy from the | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
brink of disaster and got us to a position where you can see the | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
minimum wage going up for people. Of course, more broadly, I want to see | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
living standards go up for the whole country as we fix the economy. That | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
clip came a little early what that pre-empted, if you like, the fact | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
that Labour said to me when the news broke, they were late to come to the | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
party, and don't forget actually they opposed, the Tories opposed the | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
minimum wage when it was first introduced in 1999. I was with the | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
Labour insiders when the news broke, they were a little surprised, but | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
their response was that Labour had established the minimum wage and | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
they were keen to get that across. I mentioned Ed Miliband's speech | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
tomorrow, on Tuesday we broke the news that he was implementing | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
radical reforms if he gets in touch with the banking sector. We have had | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
confirmation on what that would mean. Ed Miliband we understand | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
would say he wants to see two new challenger banks come into the | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
market. They would have at least 6% market share over the course of the | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
next five-year parliament. Who will ask the new competitions and | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
markets' authority just set up, to set a maximum threshold for the | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
future market share of any bank, any big bank, which would limit the size | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
to which they are able to grow, if they bust that level there would be | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
an investigation. That means nearly all the big banks would be broken up | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
in some shape. They would have to sell off branches and that could in | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
turn jeopardise plans to privatise RBS again, because there could be | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
too much uncertainty surrounding its value. They are calling this, | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
Labour, the new economy, they say they will taken every broken market. | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
We don't know what that means. They are paving the way more. They were | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
critical of Mark Carney's comments on these proposal. They said he | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
needs to be careful not to be overtly political. They said they | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
were rather surprised he had commented on proposals in a speech | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
that he couldn't possibly have heard because it hadn't yet been made. But | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
the overall thrust, if you like, of that Labour message was a warning to | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
the Government, and we can see some of what Ed Miliband's going to say | :17:20. | :17:21. | |
tomorrow. This was written, don't forget, | :17:22. | :17:43. | |
before we heard the announcement from George Osborne on the proposed | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
increase to the minimum wage. And when I asked Labour if the speech | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
would be rewritten at all as a result of this, they told me that Ed | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
Miliband had learned it off by heart and it was very unlikely he would | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
actually be changing it, but there will be a Q session. Let's talk to | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
the Business Secretary. How significant is this intervention | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
from George Osborne on the minimum wage today? I'm pleased with it. He | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
has effectively en dorsed the guidance I gave to the Low Pay | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
Commission, in fact I announced it at the Lib Dem conference in | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
September last, we wanted the low-pay commission to proceed. In | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
other words to increase the minimum wage, reflecting the fact that we | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
got a recovery, to restore its real value. Did you know he was going to | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
say this today? I didn't, but he did contribute a letter which formed | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
part of the evidence that I put forward to the Low Pay Commission. | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
When you heard him say this, were you surprised? Yes, I was a little | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
surprised. As I say I'm not taken aback by it, imitation is the best | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
form of flattery. When you have the Chancellor backing the policy I have | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
gone out and endorsed, I'm rather pleased. You will be, as Business | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
Secretary, it will be your final decision, it would be polite to | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
inform you today? He wrote to me yesterday, and he set out his views | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
on it and formed part of the package of Government evidence to the Low | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
Pay Commission. You are right, this does come to me and I will decide on | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
it, traditionally the Secretary of State accepts the views of the Low | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
Pay Commission. It is important, this whole thing has become very | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
politicised, we recognise it is nonpolitical, nonpartisan, it is | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
employers views' and they have to be respected. Do you wonder perhaps if | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
George Osborne is using what he said today to change people's perceptions | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
of the Conservative Party. Having cut the top rate of income tax? I | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
don't know what his motives are. You talk to him, you sit in cabinet | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
meetings with him? He has come to the right place. I think it is | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
important that we focus on the fairness agenda. As your comments a | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
few moments ago. There is a sense of people have been through a very hard | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
time, we have to concentrate on the people at the bottom end of the | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
scale. The Liberal Democrats lift people out of tax and we got this | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
approach to the minimum wage. We also deal with the inequalities at | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
the top, that is why we want to tax wealth as well. I'm glad George | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
Osborne is aligned with us on the minimum wage approach. Why has it | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
taken two years. You say it is really important to help people on | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
low incomes, you talked about raising the threshold. Why have you | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
done nothing on the minimum wage since you have been in Government? | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
Because that's not been the recommendation of the Low Pay | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
Commission. We have actually increased it, but you know their | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
concern throughout has been you don't want to increase wages in way | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
that creates large scale unemployment. That is their remit | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
and that is the way they interpret it. Their recommendations have been | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
that we should increase the minimum wage but not displace employment. | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
One of the big suck stories, and it has been a stuff time. The British | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
economy has taken a bounding as a result of the financial crisis, but | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
employment has held up. 1. 3 million more jobs. Unemployment has fallen | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
to 7. 4%, it is lower than in France and Sweden and other countries. We | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
don't want to spoil that story. We want jobs to continue to grow. | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
And when you have tried to persuade George Osborne of the merits of | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
increasing the minimum wage in the past, what has he said to you? I | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
don't think he fundamentally disagrees, he is concerned, as I am, | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
and indeed the Low Pay Commission, that we approach this in a way that | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
we want to help people on low earnings, but we don't want to have | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
adverse effects on the economy. The guidance I gave to the Low Pay | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
Commission asked them to look at this in a more holistic way. And to | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
look at the wider economic effects, take account of the fact the economy | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
is now recovering. Giving an incentive for people to work. The | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
time is right now? To be more positive. They have to make the | :21:57. | :21:58. | |
decision, they are an independent body. They make the recommendations, | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
as you have already said, it is your final call. Is it right you can be | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
so generous with business's money? That is not the way we see it. | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
Businesses are represented on the Low Pay Commission. That is why we | :22:17. | :22:18. | |
have to be responsible. I don't think any previous Secretary of | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
State has challenged the basic recommendation of the Low Pay | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
Commission. I did last year over the apprenticeship wage, but there was | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
an issue of principle there. We recognise that passing the costsen | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
to business is not right. Because they would in turn pass it on to | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
consumers. The CPBI, the British Chambers of Commerce, the Federation | :22:41. | :22:43. | |
of Small Business, they are a lot more cautious than you and the | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
Chancellor? I'm beg very cautious, and the guidance I have again to the | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
Low Pay Commission, is we do want to see increases in low pay. We want to | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
have real improvement, but it has to take account of the effects on | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
employment and the wider economy. That, of course, involves business | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
profitability. Let me ask you about Ed Miliband's plans for reforming | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
the banks what do you think? There are certain elements I agree with, | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
we need more competition, particularly in business banking. | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
Many of the things he's calling for have actually happened. Two new | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
banks have been created out of RBS and Lloyd's. Williams and Glynn, | :23:21. | :23:27. | |
TSB, carved out and up and running. I have established something called | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
The Business Bank, Government Finance, it is supporting new | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
companies, internet-based crowd funding. What is called peer-to-peer | :23:40. | :23:41. | |
lending, that is happening on a rapid scale. We are getting more | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
competition. What his proposals don't clearly indicate is exactly | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
what kind of bank is he trying to create. There is lots of competition | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
for mortgages, it is not a problem. There the real problem is for small | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
business, we are taking action on that already. I do agree with him, | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
we want to make more competition. We have been badly served by the banks | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
in the past. You would expect me to ask about Lord Rennard. Would you | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
like to see him removed from the party? Well, I think there is a lot | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
of frustration after this very strong report that came yesterday | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
that the party's rules don't permit that action. But what has happened | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
is the party leader, Nick Clegg, and the President, Tim Farron are now | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
discussing this closely and seeing how we can proceed and whether you | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
are rules need revisiting. Would you like to see him removed? I think I | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
would rather leave it to them. They are the key decision makers in the | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
party. They have to operate within the rules. I don't want to add an | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
independent view to that. Thank you very much. | :24:45. | :24:55. | |
20 lashes for being gay. Another vivid example of what can happen to | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
gay people in parts of Africa. This particular punishment was in | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
Nigeria, where a few weeks ago the Government quietly signed | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
anti-homosexuality legislation. Which means long jail sentences for | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
same-sex couples, and even for going to a gay club. You might say that is | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
a matter for them. But David Cameron wants justified the amount of aid | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
Britain gives to Nigeria by saying he would use it to influence | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
same-sex policies there. The bill was signed into law quietly earlier | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
this month without fanfare or announcement. When the news came out | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
this week it was relegated to a small corner of the national press. | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
But it is a piece of legislation that will have a huge impact on the | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
lives of gay people in Nigeria. Gay sex is already illegal, but this act | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
goes further. It recommends prison sentences of up to 14 years for | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
same-sex couples. Public displays of affection or even going to a gay | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
club could land you in jail for a decade. It is a populist and almost | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
universally popular move from a President under intense political | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
pressure at home, and facing re-election next year. We don't want | :26:14. | :26:23. | |
something in our country, I'm so happy that they signed against it. | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
It is better we have such law in place that we have situation where | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
is people would take the law into their own hands on account of saying | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
someone is suspected to be a homosexual, and then jungle justice | :26:38. | :26:47. | |
pertains. Since the announcement of the signing of the bill dozens of | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
people have been arrested in this staunchly religious and conservative | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
country the The police will arrest people and go through their | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
telephone and ask them to identify who is gay on their telephone | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
number, get the number and give this person a call and invite them over, | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
they go to the police station and get arrested and the system goes on. | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
This man, who fled to the UK in 2007 after coming out live on Nigerian | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
TV, says he and his family have been receiving death threats on social | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
networking sites. Where mob justice is bigger than anywhere in the | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
world, I fear for my family and friends and I fear for every | :27:31. | :27:37. | |
ordinary lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, transgender people in Nigeria. | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
Being gay in Nigeria isn't easy. In a recent poll 98% of respondents | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
said homosexuality was unacceptable in society. Meetings are held in | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
secret, activists must conceal their identities. Nigeria is Africa's most | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
populist country. Despite its vast oil wealth, it is also one of the | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
continent's poorest. Where more than half the population survive on less | :28:04. | :28:12. | |
than ?1 day. British aid to Nigeria has almost doubled in five years. In | :28:13. | :28:26. | |
2010/11 D -- DFID gave: Nigeria is one of many African | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
states with antigay legislation on the statute books. Consensual | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
same-sex relationships are illegal in around two thirds of countries on | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
the continent. They include Ethiopia, which last year received | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
over ?261 from DFID. Tanzania at ?150, and south sudden Saab at just | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
under ?110 million are amongst the top recipients of UK aid money. In | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
2011 David Cameron said Britain would use aid to try to influence | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
Government policy on same-sex relationships in countries like | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
Nigeria. Britain is now one of the premier aid givers in the world, | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
saying that our aid actually, we want to see countries that receive | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
our aid adhering to proper human rights. That includes how people | :29:12. | :29:19. | |
treat gay and lesbian people. The Foreign Secretary said he was | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
disappointed with the signing of the bill, and that Britain frequently | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
raises its concerns both with Nigeria and other countries. Clearly | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
the aid money has continued to be forth coming. Some activists say | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
British policy of public rebukes and saber-rattling over aid is both | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
ineffectual and counter-productive. We can see the backlash from that in | :29:43. | :29:50. | |
nigh goria, Uganda, Zimbabwe and Zambia, all over Africa. Africa | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
standing up and saying Britain you are coming back to colonise us with | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
your money, take it away. After David Cameron made the statement | :30:00. | :30:06. | |
about the conditions attached to LGBT rights I wrote to the Foreign | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
Office, using the Freedom of Information Act, asking for | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
Britain's investment in LGBT organisations. No investment | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
atsoever. Britain's ?10 billion foreign aid budget is meant, in | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
part, to project soft power abroad. Nigerians both in the gay community | :30:26. | :30:28. | |
and in Government could be forgiven for thinking that all the tough talk | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
doesn't really mean very much. We approached the Foreign Office, the | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
Department for International Development, and the Ministry of | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
Justice for a minister to talk about this, but we were told that no-one | :30:42. | :30:48. | |
was available. As far as news stories go, you might think there | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
couldn't be two as different as the recent political earthquakes in the | :30:52. | :30:59. | |
Middle East, and the Hollywood Tinseltown. Two films with these | :31:00. | :31:07. | |
political uprisings have been nominated. A documentary about | :31:08. | :31:16. | |
Tahrir Square is up for nomination for best foreign film. And Camara | :31:17. | :31:26. | |
has no Wall is up for best short documentary. We did this to remove | :31:27. | :31:33. | |
him and put someone exactly like him in his place. | :31:34. | :31:47. | |
The army has killed us and tortured us and the people out there know | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
that. With me now from New York are my | :31:51. | :32:35. | |
guests. Congratulations first of all, tell us what is it about the | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
Arab Spring that was so inspiring to you as a film maker? Well I'm | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
Egyptian, I grew up about ten minutes from Tahrir Square. And the | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
square really gave birth to this film, Tahrir Square. In t square I | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
met an incredible group of film makers, Egyptian film makers, it was | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
a great collaboration. And I met characters that inspired me, that | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
were fighting for human rights and social justice, a universal | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
struggle. And have spent the last three years and are still on the | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
ground fighting. And they are incredibly inspiring people, people | :33:14. | :33:15. | |
that will put everything they have on the line to fight for what they | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
believe in. And they taught me a great deal about courage and bravery | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
and so this film I see and this uprising that we followed is really | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
about the courage and beauty of the Egyptian people. And it has changed | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
me forever, actually, the process of making it. I will ask you about that | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
in a minute. I want to say congratulations to Sarah as well in | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
Cairo. What inspired you with your film? I was there when the | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
revolution began and I spent quite a bit of time in the square with | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
cameramen and with people in the field hospital before it became | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
violent. What inspired me was similar to Jihan was the bravery of | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
the young men who put themselves at risk on the front lines. I went back | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
the following day, even after witnessing you know the brutality of | :34:13. | :34:20. | |
the regime, witnessing death and young men as well. I felt as a film | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
maker and someone who had the means to put their message across to the | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
world, that I should in some way facilitate that for them and with | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
them. It was really inspiring to be in the midst of such bravery. Why | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
don't you tell us why you say your life has been changed forever on | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
making your film? Well I have spent great deal of time in Egypt and the | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
States. The US is a place known for its people power, of the uprising of | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
the 1960s and I marched against the Iraq and Afghanistan war, it was | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
depressing to see nothing be affected by those marches. I have to | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
say when I went down to the square in Egypt, I had made a film in 2007 | :35:07. | :35:13. | |
about women who were might fighting for political change, most of it | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
ended with people being jailed and cameras smashed and everything. When | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
they managed to bring down a President of 30 years, a dictator of | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
30 years, my complete understanding of possibility changed. I think when | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
that happens to you and you see the determined nature of people and this | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
adamant nature of this, that people, sticking to their principles against | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
all odds, your understanding of yourself changes. It is not only a | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
revolution on the outside. It is a revolution on the inside. When you | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
experience that magic, the hope is to be able to share that with the | :35:51. | :35:53. | |
rest of the world. That's why we made a film. Sarah, it was mentioned | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
the possibilities that emerged from the Arab Spring, very much seen as | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
an opportunity for women to have a voice. When women were often | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
marginalised. I wonder if you think things have changed permanentry when | :36:09. | :36:15. | |
it comes to women's rights? Women did take a very significant stance | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
during the revolution and they have been recognised since then as well | :36:21. | :36:28. | |
in some very prominent roles in relation to the Nobel Peace Prize, | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
journalists and within media. I think what it has done is set a | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
precedent and women have set an example. Politically I don't think | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
that much has changed. There hasn't really been progress in that regard. | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
But on a social level I think doors have been opened. Women are | :36:50. | :37:01. | |
definitely more inspired. I think they are able to break free from the | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
shackles of society and politics as well and really take part in a more | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
effective manner. So in that respect I think things have changed. There | :37:11. | :37:19. | |
are a number of people in west who look at Egypt and say not that much | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
has changed, what would you say to them? I would say it took 16 years | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
between the revolution and the constitution writing in the United | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
States. We have had three. These processes take a long time. There | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
are people that are still on the ground every single day fighting for | :37:37. | :37:44. | |
change. One incredible woman got me out of prison a couple of times, and | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
is in the courthouses getting people out of prison every day is on the | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
forefront of that change and many others. The change doesn't only | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
happen on the political level, but on other levels, the cultural | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
levels, the explosion of art and poetry. Writing on walls, all of | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
this is changing th culture. And that's very significant and if you | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
think about the civil rights movement for example, there was a | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
consciousness change, people would never put up the kinds of actions | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
that happened after the civil rights movement as they did before the | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
civil rights movement. I believe a consciousness has changed and is | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
changing in Egypt as we speak. Thank you very much both of you, good | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
luck. Scientist say we're in the middle of a solar lull. The sun's | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
fallen asleep, effectively, and it is baffling them. History suggests | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
that periods of unusual solar lull coincide with bitterly cold winters | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
what effect could this current inactivity have on our climate this | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
time round. What are the implications for global warming. We | :38:49. | :38:57. | |
have this report. The wonder of the Northern Lights. Reminds us of the | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
intimate connection we have with our star. This happens when solar winds | :39:03. | :39:11. | |
hit the earth's upper atmosphere. But many of these displays may soon | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
vanish. Something is happening to the solar activity on the surface of | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
the sun. It is ng, fast. Whatever measure you use it is coming down, | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
the solar peaks are coming down. For example with the flares, it looks | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
very, very significant. The solar cycles are now getting smaller and | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
smaller, the activity is getting less and less. There is a vast range | :39:36. | :39:46. | |
of solar activity. Sunspots, intensely magnetic areas, seen as | :39:47. | :39:53. | |
dark spots on the sun's surface, the UVA lights reflect towards the | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
earth, and flares erupt violently and tonnes of charged particles go | :39:59. | :40:05. | |
into place. It rises and falls in cycles over 11 years, now we are at | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
a peak. The solar maximum. This is eerily quiet. I have been a solar | :40:12. | :40:21. | |
physicist for 40 years, I have never seen something anything quite like. | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
To go back to see a similar minimum you have to go back 100 years. It is | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
not something I have seen in my lifetime or a couple of generations | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
before them have seen. The number of sunspots is a fraction of what | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
scientists expected. Solar flares are half. This man is head of the | :40:41. | :40:48. | |
lab in Oxfordshire. He says the rate it is falling mirrors a period in | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
the 17th century where sunspots disappear. It was a period of nearly | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
no sunspots for decades. We saw a really dramatic period where there | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
was very cold winters in the Northern Hemisphere. You had a | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
mini-Ice Age. You had a period where the Thames froze in the winter, it | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
was an interesting time. Rivers and canals froze across northern Europe. | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
Paintings from the 17th century show frost fairs taking place on the | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
Thames. During the great frost of 1684 the river froze over for two | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
months. The ice was almost a foot thick. The astronomer who observed | :41:30. | :41:48. | |
the steep decline in solar activity. The Monza minimum came when the sea | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
froze over and crop failures were widespread across northern Europe. | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
Does a decline in solar activity mean plunging temperatures for | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
decades to come. We have been making observations of sunspots, the most | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
obvious sign of solar activity from 1609 and on wards, we have hundreds | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
of years of observations. The sun seems in a similar phase as it was | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
in the run up before. I mean the activity is dropping off, cycle by | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
cycle. Lucy Green is based at the science laboratory in the North | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
Downs, she thinks that lower levels of solar activity could effect the | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
climate. She's not sure to what extent. It is a very complex area, | :42:31. | :42:33. | |
because the sun's activity controls how much visible light the sun gives | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
out, but also how much ultraviolet light and X-rays that the sun | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
submits. They create a web of changes in the earth's atmosphere, | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
and producing effects we don't fully understand. Some researchers have | :42:50. | :42:57. | |
gone way further back in time, locked into the ice sheets are | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
particles once in the upper atmosphere, particles that show | :43:03. | :43:11. | |
variations in solar activity. Mike Lockwood's work suggests this is the | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
fastest rate of solar decline for 20,000 years. When we look at the | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
record we can say what has the sun gone on to do, based on that and the | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
current state of decline, we estimate ho 40 years from now, there | :43:28. | :43:35. | |
is a 20% probability that we will be back in the early conditions by that | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
time. Less solar activity means a drop in ultraviolet radiation. Mike | :43:41. | :43:47. | |
Lockwood says this seems to affect the behaviour of the jet stream. It | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
changes its pattern and ends up blocking warm air from reaching | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
northern Europe. It causes long, cold, winters, but what about | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
tempures as a whole? One has to make a separation between winter cold | :44:04. | :44:10. | |
claimate. If we get something happening it is warmer than England. | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
The average is change. It is a redistribution of temperature around | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
the North Atlantic. The relationship between solar activity and weather | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
on earth is complicated. If solar activity continues to fall, could | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
the temperature on earth as a whole get cooler? Could there be | :44:30. | :44:36. | |
implications for global warning? The world we live in today is very | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
different from the Monde Minute yum, we have had the Industrial | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
Revolution, and all kinds of gases being put in. On the one hand you | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
have a cooling sun and on the other hand you have human activity that | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
can counter that. It is difficult to say how these two are going to | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
compete and what the consequences are then for the global climb plate. | :44:58. | :45:09. | |
So even if the planet as a whole continues to wall, if we enter | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
another Ice Age the future to be frozen winters for decades to come. | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
And we don't even have bountiful displays of the Northern Lights to | :45:22. | :45:23. | |
cheer us up. That's all from us tonight. We | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
learned today that the actor, Roger Lloyd Pack died last night. He was | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
69. Dramatic actor, nevertheless found game with his character in | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
Only Fools And Horses. Trigger was a road sweeper by trade, and gave a | :45:41. | :45:47. | |
modern name to an old paradox, "trigger's objects". Is a product | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
with everything replaced still the same project. If you have had the | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
broom for 20 years, have you actually swept any roads with it? Of | :45:58. | :46:04. | |
course, but I look after it well. We have an old saying handed down by | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
generations of road sweepers, look after your broom... . And let your | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
broom look after you? No Dave it is just look after your broom. That old | :46:15. | :46:23. | |
saying. That is what I have done, I have maintained it for 20 years. | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
This old broom has had 17 new heads and 14 new handles in its time. How | :46:30. | :46:40. | |
the hell can it be the same bloody broom thenment Here is a picture of | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
it, what more proof do you need. MIT The showers coming down and more | :46:45. | :47:05. | |
sunshine. Fog in | :47:06. | :47:06. |