28/04/2014 Newsnight


28/04/2014

The stabbing of a school teacher. Jeremy Paxman talks to a journalist kidnapped in Ukraine. Max Clifford. HS2. Michael Bloomberg. Ralph Fiennes performs.


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A teacher is stabbed to death in school and the country gasps in

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shock. An awful tragedy for sure, but does it tell us anything about

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violence in schools? Should it be the cue for moral panic over the

:00:21.:00:26.

state of our worst classrooms. As pro-Russians attack Ukrainian

:00:27.:00:31.

protests in Donetsk, we talk to the journalist who was beaten up and

:00:32.:00:37.

kidnapped by pro-Moscow settlers, if anyone can tell us who they are, he

:00:38.:00:41.

can. For once, the man who spoke and spun for a living is silent. I have

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been told by my lawyers to say nothing at all. Does the conviction

:00:48.:00:54.

of Max Clifford vindicate the pursuit of old men for the sex

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crimes of their middle-age and youth. And the American Vietnam War

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veterans who left children behind them when they fled go back there to

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find them. Guy it was late this morning when the police were called

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to a Catholic school in Leeds and arrested a 15-year-old, an

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experienced female teacher had been stabbed to death. By most accounts

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the school was popular and pupils horrified by what happened. Was it a

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shocking abhoration, or a sobering reminder of the threat of violence

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teachers can face in the classroom. In memory of a much loved teacher,

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tonight corpus Corpus Christer, Catholic Church rembering a woman

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who had taught at the school for 30 years. She had taught Spanish and

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religious education. They say you always remember a good teacher, as

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the news spread, students past and present came back to pay tribute.

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She was always a teacher you could approach, even if you weren't with

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her, she made herself available for you. She was that sort of lady. Why

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did you want to be here today? To pay my respects to somebody who is

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just truly amazing, she deserves every bit of respect. It wasn't like

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finding out a teacher had died, it was like a relative or auntie. What

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sort of a person was she? Lovely. No teacher should turn up at school in

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the morning and not go home. That is what happened at Corp are yous

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Christi Catholic school in Leeds this morning. A 15-year-old is in

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custody and the police recovered a knife. This afternoon the police

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told me that Mrs McGuire was stabbed many times, in front of her students

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during the lesson after morning break. Originally they said other

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classes were told there was a leak and they should stay put, as

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teachers began to break the news, many were in tears. Family liaison

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officers have been on stand by all day. This is clearly a shocking

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event for everybody. Indeed this is clearly an unprecedented event here

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in Leeds. And a shocking incident, the likes of I have not seen in over

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25 years of Police Service. The reason for that is that schools in

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Leeds are generally very safe places to work, to visit and to study.

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Philip Lawrence is thought to have been the last teacher fatally

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stabbed, that was 1995 when the headteacher tried to break up a

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fight outside his London school. Mrs McGuire was killed on school

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promises, her death will -- premises, her dead will lead to

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questions about whether classrooms are more dangerous. It is an awful

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thing that has happened, we have to wait for the investigation to see

:04:04.:04:06.

what happened and what lessons can be learned. Recent figures show the

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number of pupils caught with weapons in school is going down. From 365 in

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2011 to 250 last year. Unfortunately young people sometimes do stupid

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things, and they have to live with the consequences. Sometimes the

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consequences are not what they would have foreseen. Tonight this

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community is finding solace where it can. Chris Dunn has spent 41 years

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working and ultimately running London schools before retiring last

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September, and the check executive of the teacher support network,

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providing counselling and support for teachers suffering with

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work-related emotional problems. I can almost smell the moral panic

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beginning but this is very rare? It is incredibly rare. I said to your

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researcher when they rang up, I honestly couldn't believe and I

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heard it on the news tonight when the last time a teacher who was

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attacked in this way. We heard a headteacher in 1995, that was again

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a quite different circumstance where he was defending some of his pupils

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out on the street against attack. What is your experience from your

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contact with teachers? Teachers seldom report that they have been

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viciously attacked, what they do say is they get intimidated, sometimes,

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certainly in secondary schools by older pupils, and that can be a

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problem. They also recognise they have powers to search pupils, but

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many of them don't want to do that, they were trained to teach. You have

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just used that phrase "many of them" don't want to do that and teachers

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report being intimidated. How many, how common is it? We take 26,500

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calls a year, there are a whole many and range of problems. How many

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contact but this sort of thing? We have had about 100 calls over the

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last two years, it is relatively low level, and I think what it says is

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most of our schools are safe places to be. As you said, we don't want to

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start a moral panic. I hesitate to describe you as a veteran, you are

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probably younger than I. After 41 years in schools did you think

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things were getting better or worse? I'm convinced they are getting

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better. I have worked, as you say, four # years, the last 21 as a

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headteacher and all of those years in Inner London. I'm absolutely

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clear that things are better, right across the board in schools,

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relationships, not just between pupils and their teachers, but

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between pupils and other pupils. Let as address one other things likely

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to come up in the next few days, the question of whether or not there

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should be metal detectors or security devices installed in

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schools. What would you think about that? Most teachers would prefer not

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to have those kinds of systems in place, you know, schools are open

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places for communities and I don't think teachers want that. I don't

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think the statistics merit it. And it would be really sad if we end up

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with that kind of level of security. I think engaging the police,

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parents, communities and using this tragedy to discuss the issues around

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violence and around knives and so on, that's worth doing. But actually

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we mustn't overrespond and overreact. It is one of the things

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of course that every Ofsted inspection team asks the pupils, and

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they take them away from the teachers and they talk to them in

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confidence, they ask them about bullying, violence, they ask them if

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they feel safe, and read the report up and down the country, the vast

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majority say they do feel safe in their schools. Is there a danger of

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a negative consequence of an overreaction such as installing

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metal detectors? I think so, because what I believe so many of my

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colleagues have been trying to do over the years to regard this as an

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issue about education. It is about creating an atmosphere of respect.

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Not just top-down respect, or top-up respect if you like, pupils

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respecting their teachers, but everybody in the community

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respecting each other. In my school we wrote a school code that said

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exactly. That everybody has the right to be treated with respect. We

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made it clear that this code applied to me the headteacher, as much as

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every single child in the school. You had to respect the pupils? And

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all my staff and the pupils had to respect each other and the teachers.

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You are nodding? I think teachers are far more preoccupied with the

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stresses and strains of teaching and working long hours and so on than

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with issues about violence. Most teachers say to us the things that

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bother them are low-level disruption that they get on a daily basis. We

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shouldn't lose sight in the broader picture which you say is not so bad

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that a terrible strategy has happened? Appalling. Every sympathy

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for the school, the family and so on. Now the crisis in Ukraine shows

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no sign of yielding to western concern and pressure, another town

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fell to the Russian rebels in the east of the country today. They

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still refuse to release seven unarmed monitors from the

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Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe. In a few

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minutes I will be talking to a man who was himself held hostage by the

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sa rebels. First let's catch up with our diplomatic editor. It is going

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on, Donetsk today? Yes, this seems to have entered a new phase, this

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crisis. The immediate threat of a large scale Russian invasion seems

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to have stayed, now it is a battle for the streets. In Donetsk there

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was a demonstration early this evening. People demonstrating in

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favour of the Kiev authorities of national unity. Now they were set

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upon, about 1,000 of them, by people wielding steel bars, badly beaten,

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you can see a pro-Ukrainian supporter there being carried away.

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They complained the police did little. Also today the mayor of the

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biggest city in the east, Kharkiv was shot and seriously wounded.

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Where is this going? One Russian news agency reporting that shooting

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said how can you possibly have elections under these circumstances,

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this seems to be the agenda of those stirring this up. As far as

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sanctions or the threatened sanctions? Well we had more

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sanctions today, actually the fourth installment from the United States,

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a few individuals, but 17 companies. They are now moving against the oil

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and gas sector in Russia. Individuals closely associated with

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Putin, but I have been told also attempts to get at Mr Putin's money

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in some of these corporate entities by the Americans. This type of

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approach has not been adopted by the EU. They are expected to name 15

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additional individuals who will be subject to travel bans and asset

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freezes tomorrow. They don't yet go for what they call the sectoral

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sanction on the oil and gas, as explained this afternoon by William

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Hague. We are in further discussions in the EU about future steps,

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including preparations for a third tier of sanctions involving

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far-reaching economic and trade measures. These preparations are

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well advanced and the European Commission has sent proposals to

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each member-state. Now what about these hostages, the OSCE hostages

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taken by the pro-Russian forces? They are among dozens, the

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Ukrainians say there are 40 people being held against their will in

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these eastern towns. You have the three members of their own

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Intelligence Service, the SBU, we can see them here, clearly they have

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been roughed up, they have been held. Who are these guys? They are

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members of the Ukrainian Intelligence Service, the SBU. Then

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we have these gentlemen, the OSC monitors you were talking about,

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mostly Germans, in fact, not great time to hold them and put them on

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display with the EU discussing these possible sanctions. Then you have

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Ukrainian journalists but also the case of the American reporter who

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was working for Advice News, one of the things he was looking at, just

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before he was lifted, was this question of who are the figures? We

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have reported on this before, some of these men, were they members of

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Russian Special Forces operating in their acclaim and counter claim, he

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caught up with a specific one, who showed his Russian passport but

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denied he was in Georgia in 2008 as some have alleged. And also denied

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he was there as part of a GIU unit. It is a deniable force, so I guess

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he couldn't admit it. Then Simon asked him why he had come there?

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The person who secured that piece of interview there is the Vice Media

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reporter, he was kidnapped and held by Russian seperatists in Ukraine,

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he joins us now for his first British broadcast interview? Can you

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tell us how you came to be taken? I was actually taken an hour after we

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filmed that video you just watched. We were driving through a number of

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checkpoints and on the last checkpoint before our hotel some

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armed men who had my picture, recognised me and pulled me and some

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of my colleagues out of the car, that is how my detention began. We

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were taken to the SBU Security Services building that has been

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taken over by Russian gunmen now. I was separated from my other

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colleagues and taken into the basement, blindfolded. I had my

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hands tied behind my back. I was thrown on the floor and beaten up

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and held there for the next three days. Did these men who took you say

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who they were? Some of them were clearly locals, my

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caretakers, the people who brought me food. And there was a sort of

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another echelon of gunmen who were also seeming to be local in terms of

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being from the same city, they were kind of Morag tag. And then there

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were those guys who we called the special ops GIESHGS they looked a

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lot more professional, had more modern guns and uniforms that

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matched. And they could very well have been from Ukraine and I wasn't

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able to get any evidence from those guys in particular that they came

:15:13.:15:15.

from Russia. They sounded like they had southern accents to me, so they

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could have been from Ukraine and southern Russia, I think there are a

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lot of local Ukrainians involved in this pro-Russia uprising. But you

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know as I showed in that other video, there are definitely Russian

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citizens down there as well? Why did they release you? It is hard for me

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to say, but I think maybe self-declared Mayor of The area, who

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I think is the person calling the shots and who ordered my release was

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eventually tired of all of the pressure he was getting from

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journalists asking after me. The problem now is there are local

:15:58.:16:03.

journalists and activists, Ukrainian people who are still being held by

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him for no apparent reason. There has not been a lot of attention put

:16:08.:16:10.

on their cases because they are not foreign. And they have been down in

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that same cellar that I spent three days in for weeks now. And I think

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that there should be a lot more attention brought to their cases.

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Did you see any evidence of any kind that the Russian state was involved

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in what was going on there? In the place where I was actually being

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held I was blindfolded the entire time, and when I was being

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entergated I wasn't ever allowed to look at the faces of the people

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interrogating me. So I wasn't asking them for their business cards

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either. So I don't know whether they were or weren't from Russia, I can't

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say for sure. Did you get any evidence that they were organised as

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opposed to being some group of irregulars? They were a group of

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irregulars who were organised, in my view! I think they communicate with

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the other pro-Russia cities that have been, well the pro-Russia

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forces that have taken over administration buildings in other

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parts of Ukraine and I think they are pretty co-ordinated in what they

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are doing. Thank you for joining us, thank you. You can see more of

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Simon's reporting at vice.com. Once upon a time Max Clifford was a short

:17:37.:17:40.

and noisy publicist who could break or break careers. He liked to boast

:17:41.:17:45.

he hated hypocrisy. Now the author of such tabloid treasures as

:17:46.:17:55.

"Freddie Starr ate my hamster", has been convicted of sex offences.

:17:56.:18:02.

There is some veinedtation of Operation Utree. Operation Yewtree.

:18:03.:18:14.

I have been told by my lawyers to say nothing at all. Max Clifford

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stood in silence today after being convicted of a string of sex attacks

:18:21.:18:24.

on girls as young as 15. For a man well paid to keep some of his

:18:25.:18:27.

clients out of the headlines, this is a spectacular fall from grace.

:18:28.:18:32.

Through his six-week trial he called his young victims fantasists and

:18:33.:18:36.

opportunists. Today the jury disagreed, he was found guilty on

:18:37.:18:41.

eight of the 11 counts. Today's verdicts provide a long denied

:18:42.:18:46.

justice to the victims of serious sexual offences. I would like to

:18:47.:18:50.

thank these victims for having had the courage to come forward and give

:18:51.:18:55.

evidence. The victims of sexual abuse, whenever it may have taken

:18:56.:19:00.

place should know that police and prosecutors will listen. Max

:19:01.:19:06.

Clifford represented some of the best known tabloid names of the last

:19:07.:19:13.

decade, from Westlife and Jade Goodie, to Simon Cowell. There is

:19:14.:19:17.

always the fear 9.00 Sunday night you will get a call from a reporter

:19:18.:19:21.

saying we are doing this, you have to have someone to phone in a

:19:22.:19:24.

situation like that. But Clifford was perhaps best known as the king

:19:25.:19:27.

of the kiss and tell. The man behind many of the juicyist scoops of the

:19:28.:19:37.

past 30 years, from Antonia Sanchez and David Mellor, to many others. He

:19:38.:19:42.

arranged 15 front page slashes in 18 months. He invented celebrity

:19:43.:19:50.

publicity and PR in the 1970s and 1980s. For a long time no-one was

:19:51.:19:57.

able to sur plant him. And the other interesting fact is plenty of people

:19:58.:20:01.

have tried to imitate him but haven't managed to do it. On the

:20:02.:20:05.

other hand his other major problem is he became the story very often,

:20:06.:20:10.

where as other PRs have been much more discreet. The court heard how

:20:11.:20:13.

Clifford abused his powerful position in the industry, how he

:20:14.:20:18.

preyed on star struck girls at his offices in New Bond Street, and bars

:20:19.:20:23.

and clubs nearby. In the mid-1980s this doorway in Picadilly led to a

:20:24.:20:28.

nightclub, it was in places like this that Max Clifford held court.

:20:29.:20:32.

Here he approached one of his victims, an 18-year-old dancer and

:20:33.:20:37.

asked she if she wanted to be a bond girl. She was taken to a toilet,

:20:38.:20:40.

locked inside and sexually assaulted. He told the victim there

:20:41.:20:44.

was no point in going to the police as no-one would believe her. A

:20:45.:20:49.

second girl, 15 at the time of the astack, said decades later she wrote

:20:50.:20:54.

a handwritten note found by police in his bedside cabinet. It was read

:20:55.:20:57.

out in court, Today she told the BBC how Clifford

:20:58.:21:18.

was a cynical opportunist. It had huge implications for me as a young

:21:19.:21:25.

person. And to see him then go on to become very high-profile, to speak

:21:26.:21:31.

openly about other paedophiles and damn them and create a persona of a

:21:32.:21:37.

respectable, high-profile man, who was lauded by the media was

:21:38.:21:42.

sickening. This conviction will also be a huge relief for police and

:21:43.:21:46.

prosecutors, Clifford will soon be the first person sentenced as part

:21:47.:21:55.

of the much criticised Operation Yewtree, an investigation into

:21:56.:22:00.

historical sex offences sparked by the case of Jimmy Savile. It is

:22:01.:22:05.

landmark case because demonstrates cases can be brought successful,

:22:06.:22:08.

despite the status of the suspect or accused. For many years there was a

:22:09.:22:13.

perception that a case would rarely, if ever, succeed against a

:22:14.:22:19.

celebrity. And this case shows that with the evidence, with

:22:20.:22:22.

determination, cases can be brought. That is very important for victims,

:22:23.:22:27.

it is very important for the criminal justice system. It is not

:22:28.:22:30.

fun standing there being accused of being a fantasist or a liar.

:22:31.:22:34.

As for the man himself, at times it felt he almost didn't take the trial

:22:35.:22:38.

seriously, at one point coming out of court to play games with

:22:39.:22:42.

reporters on the steps outside. But the man once called "the king of

:22:43.:22:48.

spin", "the darling of Fleet Street", leaves court with his

:22:49.:22:51.

reputation in tatters. Max Clifford has been released on bail and will

:22:52.:22:58.

be sentenced on Friday. With us now are our guests. How

:22:59.:23:09.

important do you think today's verdict was? It is very important,

:23:10.:23:16.

it gives real vindication to the work that Operation Yewtree has

:23:17.:23:25.

done, it shows it was not a celebrity issue, it shows victims

:23:26.:23:31.

who come forward years after can convince a jury and achieve

:23:32.:23:35.

conviction. It demonstrates no-one is above the law? It certainly does.

:23:36.:23:42.

Absolutely and a I think one of the important things, the watershed

:23:43.:23:47.

moments here is that what it also signifies is a real sea change about

:23:48.:23:52.

the way women behave. I'm really genuinely thinking that most of the

:23:53.:23:55.

young women I know, my children, my daughter, wouldn't put up with that

:23:56.:23:59.

kind of behaviour, so it is, when we heard some of those victims'

:24:00.:24:03.

stories, I didn't know what to do, and I felt like I had to do that,

:24:04.:24:07.

most women now, this is not that many years on would think absolutely

:24:08.:24:14.

I'm not going to do that, don't be ridiculous. It is not just the kiss

:24:15.:24:18.

and tell culture, it is the I'm not kissing and I am telling, that is

:24:19.:24:22.

what today signified and that is very significant. Is it applying the

:24:23.:24:28.

standards of today to the behaviour of 20 or 30 years ago? No, because

:24:29.:24:32.

what I'm saying is there has been a big change. 20 or OK years ago most

:24:33.:24:37.

-- 30 years ago most women that age wouldn't have the confidence to say

:24:38.:24:41.

hang on, he has locked me in an office or toilet, what do I do, and

:24:42.:24:45.

I went along with it... I don't think that most women, of course we

:24:46.:24:50.

can't generalise, but most women these days would think you have to

:24:51.:24:53.

put up with something like that. An assault is an assault isn't it? What

:24:54.:24:58.

do you think this argument, is still occasionally being made, that we are

:24:59.:25:02.

applying today's standards to the behaviour of a different age? I

:25:03.:25:06.

don't agree with that, these were very serious sexual assaults on

:25:07.:25:11.

young girls, 15, who were giving evidence that their lives had been

:25:12.:25:15.

ruined. And it was just as serious then in the 60s and 70s as it is

:25:16.:25:19.

now. I don't think we are applying today's standards. These were very,

:25:20.:25:26.

very serious assaults, even then. And yet behaviour was different

:25:27.:25:29.

wasn't it? It was, the fact that even today there is a little smile

:25:30.:25:33.

on Max Clifford's face, at the time he's quite jokey about the whole

:25:34.:25:39.

thing, but I really wonder... Was there anything you heard in the

:25:40.:25:46.

testimony given that surprised you? I suppose I'm cynical, so I'm not

:25:47.:25:53.

easily surprised, I think it did surprise me that some of those

:25:54.:25:57.

girls, and as I said earlier, I can't imagine them saying this

:25:58.:26:02.

today, our daughters' age group to say they didn't have the confidence

:26:03.:26:06.

to say no, or awent along with it. I find that really difficult to

:26:07.:26:11.

believe now. But man taking his penis out and expecting to be

:26:12.:26:15.

masterbated, this is not normal behaviour? Clearly and most

:26:16.:26:18.

15-year-olds would get up and leave. Why didn't they? Was it normal in

:26:19.:26:22.

those days, or was it less unusual? I think it is completely abnormal

:26:23.:26:26.

and the fact that he can be jokey and this was the normal climate

:26:27.:26:31.

shows again this whole question of power and absolute power. I don't

:26:32.:26:35.

think some men will be behave any differently in the future. I think

:26:36.:26:39.

that will carry on, the difference is how girls, I don't know if you

:26:40.:26:43.

agree. This is still going on? Absolutely, why do we think it is

:26:44.:26:47.

not. Because it is so unexpected? Is it? It is in my world? You are not a

:26:48.:26:52.

girl. That is true, I'm not. Do you think this sort of behaviour is

:26:53.:26:56.

still going on? I would like to think that it is nowhere near as

:26:57.:27:00.

extreme as it was, and I would like to agree with Sue that people of our

:27:01.:27:04.

children's generation wouldn't tolerate that now. But you were

:27:05.:27:08.

aware of it happening when you were a young woman around Fleet Street?

:27:09.:27:12.

Yes and I think it still does now. I think probably not in the completely

:27:13.:27:17.

overt way that he behaved, but actually probably, even the other

:27:18.:27:21.

day we had stories and I know we haven't uncovered really what's been

:27:22.:27:25.

going on but stories about behaviour towards research assistants and so

:27:26.:27:29.

called minor staff in the House of Commons and the House of Lords. Of

:27:30.:27:34.

course it is going on. Power for people, they will abuse that power,

:27:35.:27:38.

they always will. What's the big lesson of this case? Well there are

:27:39.:27:42.

some very important lessons to be learned, firstly that it is never

:27:43.:27:46.

too late to come forward and give evidence, that you can achieve a

:27:47.:27:52.

conviction many years afterwards, that the evidence is still cogent

:27:53.:27:57.

and vital. This isn't about a celebrity witch-hunt. And those

:27:58.:28:01.

bravado statements he made at the beginning about these women being

:28:02.:28:07.

fantasists and opportunists, lesser victims would have shied away from

:28:08.:28:11.

the courts. And what is absolutely vital is this will give other people

:28:12.:28:14.

confidence to come forward and see their cases through in the courts

:28:15.:28:17.

and that's what's absolutely important. It still requires quite a

:28:18.:28:22.

bit of courage doesn't it? Incredible courage. They have, the

:28:23.:28:27.

jury has been out for eight days considering its verdict. But this

:28:28.:28:30.

will give other victims the confidence that a conviction can be

:28:31.:28:38.

achieved. Thank you, it is 40 years since the Vietnam War ended and a

:28:39.:28:42.

humiliating defeat for America, the more than half a million GIs who

:28:43.:28:47.

served in Vietnam are in their late 60s and early 70s, a stage in life

:28:48.:28:52.

when one might reflect on the fast. A few of the GIs who fathered

:28:53.:28:55.

children during the war are going back to look for them. Sue Lloyd

:28:56.:29:01.

Roberts joined one American veteran on his search. Saigon April 1975.

:29:02.:29:08.

American personnel rush to get on the last helicopters to take off.

:29:09.:29:18.

They leave behind girlfriends and tens and thousands of children,

:29:19.:29:30.

fathered by American soldiers. Gerry Quinn was one of those soldiers, 62

:29:31.:29:34.

years old and currently a missionary in Taiwan, he's back in Saigon for

:29:35.:29:38.

the first time in 40 years to look for his son. It is not the same, now

:29:39.:29:44.

you have got fancy cars and motorcycles and the bicycles are

:29:45.:29:51.

gone. The real irony for me is that the war was all about bringing

:29:52.:29:55.

communism here and getting rid of capitalism. And yet when you look

:29:56.:29:59.

around, when you look everywhere you see capitalism. At the Museum of the

:30:00.:30:11.

American War in Saigon, now renamed Ho Chi Min City, the guides tell of

:30:12.:30:18.

the barbaric acts committed by the Americans during the war. Gerry who

:30:19.:30:23.

worked in communications and didn't see combat, didn't expect to be

:30:24.:30:27.

accused of the same when he got home. To brand me as a baby killer

:30:28.:30:32.

when I felt like I was serving my country, mum, apple pie, Chevrolet,

:30:33.:30:38.

I come back and I'm a baby killer. No wonder it took four decades for

:30:39.:30:43.

Gerry to come back. One of the things I admired about Brandy is she

:30:44.:30:49.

was dignified. He has a photo of his former girlfriend, whom he only

:30:50.:30:54.

knows by the name Brandy. And of the baby born after he left. He would

:30:55.:31:01.

now be about 40. His family back home told him to forget them.

:31:02.:31:06.

Actually Brandy sent this photo to my mother, when my mother saw the

:31:07.:31:13.

photo she said you don't want to marry a Vietnamese, a "gook", part

:31:14.:31:19.

of it is that guilt of thinking I could have done something different.

:31:20.:31:30.

With an interpreter who has helped veterans find their children before,

:31:31.:31:35.

Gerry heads for the area where he shared a house with Brandy. How long

:31:36.:31:42.

has she been in this area? He has the address and a photo of the

:31:43.:31:48.

house, but can't find it. 30 A, we can't find the house with the

:31:49.:31:56.

numbers. That's a problem. All the street names were changed and even

:31:57.:32:07.

the numbers explains this man. Others suggest that they talk to the

:32:08.:32:13.

family of another GI who are visiting Saigon and staying just

:32:14.:32:25.

around the corner. Midas is the oldest of five children of an

:32:26.:32:29.

American soldier stationed in Saigon for ten years. He now lives in

:32:30.:32:35.

America. Do you remember any American-Asian children that had red

:32:36.:32:38.

air. There is quite a few over here. Really? Yeah. That sent to school

:32:39.:32:44.

with you or something? Yes, I only went to third grade in Vietnam.

:32:45.:32:50.

Midas doesn't remember Gerry's son, although he would like to help him

:32:51.:32:53.

in his search, not least because of what happened to him when he made

:32:54.:32:58.

contact with his father in America. When I talked to him he seemed

:32:59.:33:07.

through the conversation trying to deny the reality. So I'm just like

:33:08.:33:12.

OK, if that is what you want then I didn't want to be a bother so. His

:33:13.:33:17.

mother remembers vividly what happened after the Vietnamese

:33:18.:33:24.

entered Saigon. When there was an opportunity to

:33:25.:33:47.

take the family to America, she grabbed it and they all moved to New

:33:48.:33:54.

York. In the early 1980s the children of the American GIs were

:33:55.:33:57.

found to be living in a dreadful state here, discriminated against

:33:58.:34:00.

and living in poverty. The American Government felt compelled to start a

:34:01.:34:05.

programme of immigration. And in all, some 30,000 children went to

:34:06.:34:09.

live in America with their immediate families. But the programme came to

:34:10.:34:18.

an end after only eight years. Meanwhile Gerry is still looking,

:34:19.:34:22.

and getting increasingly dispondent of ever finding his son. Then comes

:34:23.:34:39.

the breakthrough that Gerry has been praying for. I'm looking for anybody

:34:40.:34:47.

around the age of my son. The owner of a noodle bar recognises the woman

:34:48.:34:51.

in a white uniform in a photo standing next to Gerry's girlfriend

:34:52.:34:54.

Brandy. She says that the midwife had a

:34:55.:35:05.

daughter who now lives in California. Who happens to be in

:35:06.:35:11.

Saigon for a visit. She had popped into the noodle bar the day before.

:35:12.:35:19.

Though contacts the midwife's daughter who is called Kim and

:35:20.:35:24.

arranges her to come and meet Gerry. This is Brandy and the baby. Oh my

:35:25.:35:31.

goodness I remember her, you know why, I talked to her a lot. So did

:35:32.:35:40.

you help deliver my baby. Yes I did. So you held my baby in your hands.

:35:41.:35:46.

Yes. So Kim I have a question, may I hold your hands. Of course. Because

:35:47.:35:56.

these hands held my baby. That's just so much emotion in my heart

:35:57.:36:04.

right now. I may never see him or touch him, this is as close as I

:36:05.:36:15.

will get. Right here. Over here is your home. One of these places here?

:36:16.:36:22.

Gerry and Kim go to her mother's old house, around the corner from where

:36:23.:36:25.

he was searching a few days ago. The house where his son was born. It is

:36:26.:36:32.

really amazing after 40 years to be able to look in this place. It turns

:36:33.:36:39.

out that Brandy lived here for some time after the baby was born. The

:36:40.:36:48.

photos come out again for the neighbours. One woman, who

:36:49.:36:53.

recognises the photo of Brandy comes up with a vital bit of information.

:36:54.:37:01.

Brandy's Vietnamese name and then a shattering bit of news.

:37:02.:37:12.

If what she says is correct, Gerry's son could also be in America. But at

:37:13.:37:27.

least guerrey now has the name of his son. The next day he leaves

:37:28.:37:34.

Saigon and using social media he puts his photos on Facebook, but he

:37:35.:37:39.

isn't hopeful. In the aftermath of the Vietnam War, only 3% of the

:37:40.:37:43.

children have made contact with their fathers. Two weeks later a

:37:44.:37:58.

41-year-old male in New Mexico recognises the photos on-line. The

:37:59.:38:03.

same pictures had been given to him by his mother. We arrange for Gerry

:38:04.:38:16.

to go to Alba Alberqurqe. He heard that Brandy was targeted and like so

:38:17.:38:28.

many mothers she abandoned her son. Here he is, they are jumping up and

:38:29.:38:35.

down. There he is. Wow. Grandpa! Hello. Hello, how are you guys. How

:38:36.:38:46.

are you doing. Love you. Love you too. A hug to make up for the last

:38:47.:38:57.

40 years. Wow! So is it real. Yes sir, now it is real Sir. Now it is

:38:58.:39:06.

real. It turns out Gary arrived in America when he was eight, thanks to

:39:07.:39:09.

the Government programme in the 1980s. Gary explains what it was

:39:10.:39:19.

like for the children growing up in Vietnam. We were away from Saigon,

:39:20.:39:25.

we were nowhere near Saigon, we were out in the middle pretty much in the

:39:26.:39:28.

jungle to start a new life out there, built a house out of clay or

:39:29.:39:37.

mud or whatever you call it, it is not hut but hard and dried, there is

:39:38.:39:41.

no food. You eat off of whatever you have out there. It was pretty tough

:39:42.:39:47.

growing up back home, being half white and half Vietnamese, it is not

:39:48.:39:52.

fun. So people making fun of you, your momma is this and that, you

:39:53.:39:56.

come out like this, you don't belong here, you need to go, this is not

:39:57.:40:02.

your country. Gerry is racked by guilt. I never knew you were a

:40:03.:40:11.

complete orphan. In my mind you would have been with your mother.

:40:12.:40:15.

When I first landed in New York, I didn't know, that was, all I know

:40:16.:40:20.

was the Statue of Liberty means freedom. I didn't even know I landed

:40:21.:40:25.

in the states that had the statue. I landed in New York and I told my

:40:26.:40:30.

foster family, oh my God, I saw the statue, I was like I need to go out

:40:31.:40:34.

there, and climb all the way on the top, that way I let people know I'm

:40:35.:40:39.

in America and I'm free. So I made it, you know. From now on neither

:40:40.:40:58.

intends to let the other go. And you can watch a longer version of the

:40:59.:41:03.

film this Saturday on Our World at 21. 30 on the news channel. Now the

:41:04.:41:07.

House of Commons has voted tonight, we don't have the result yet, but it

:41:08.:41:12.

is pretty much a foregone conclusion that it will decide to spend vast

:41:13.:41:17.

amounts of public money on a new railway line known as HS two, ?42.

:41:18.:41:26.

Five billion, although ministers hope it will come in cheaper. The go

:41:27.:41:29.

ahead for the first stage of the line was more or less assured by

:41:30.:41:34.

cross-party support. Though a number of Tory ministers with seats where

:41:35.:41:37.

the line will run through claim to have unavoidable commitments in

:41:38.:41:40.

Estonia and elsewhere this evening. They ducked out of voting. Many

:41:41.:41:45.

argue that plans for the HS2 are unique any way, and predate the days

:41:46.:41:49.

when people could work while travelling. Anything to get David

:41:50.:41:55.

Grossman out of the office and on to the trains.

:41:56.:42:13.

Like the trolley service on the London to Birmingham line, HS2 is,

:42:14.:42:22.

we are told, laden with goodies. Much of the benefit, according to

:42:23.:42:25.

the official figures, comes from shorter journey times, particularly

:42:26.:42:31.

for business travellers. We are promised millions of fewer wasted

:42:32.:42:38.

hours. As critics of HS2 have pointed out repeatedly, plenty of

:42:39.:42:41.

people do lots and lots of work on the train.

:42:42.:42:44.

It may be unnecessary, but to prove the point we decided if we could

:42:45.:42:49.

record and edit our enti film whilst on the train. What's next? The first

:42:50.:42:56.

guy is a critic of HS2, and he should be over there. Since you

:42:57.:43:00.

mention it we were asked to move into the less busy first class

:43:01.:43:06.

carriage by Virgin, it is a would be less disruptive to passengers trying

:43:07.:43:10.

to work! Why do you think so many people still remain unconvinced by

:43:11.:43:15.

the economic case for HS2? One of the big problems is the Government's

:43:16.:43:19.

rationale keeps changing, initially they said it was all about reducing

:43:20.:43:23.

the time people took to get to Birminghan and the northern cities

:43:24.:43:26.

and it would enable them to work more. When that was debunked they

:43:27.:43:30.

have moved on to talking about regeneration of the whole of the

:43:31.:43:34.

north of England, there is no evidence to suggest this will occur

:43:35.:43:39.

as a result of HS2. It hasn't had significant economic affects in east

:43:40.:43:43.

Kent or certain areas of Sinn Fein that have significant high-speed

:43:44.:43:49.

rail networks. One. 20 later we are in Birmingham, HS2 will take about

:43:50.:43:52.

50 minutes for the journey, the cost for this section of the line ?24

:43:53.:43:59.

billion, it includes a pretty Younge contingency. Is the saving worth the

:44:00.:44:10.

cost. In Birmingham I met a supporter who thought that was

:44:11.:44:13.

entirely the wrong question to ask? Our railway line is full, we can't

:44:14.:44:18.

upgrade the existing line, once that was concluded we concluded we need

:44:19.:44:23.

to build the best we can, the high-speed line. Birmingham's growth

:44:24.:44:28.

and potential, integral to that is having great connectivity, and we

:44:29.:44:32.

can't allow the railway to freeze up, which is what will happen. Do

:44:33.:44:38.

you think the case for HS2 has been helped by the rather formal way the

:44:39.:44:42.

business case is presented, talked about time saved? No, there is a

:44:43.:44:47.

general acknowledgement in the industry that the modelling for

:44:48.:44:51.

transport schemes is out of date. You get forced into a narrow set of

:44:52.:44:57.

parameters around time saved. The country's system of assessing

:44:58.:45:03.

transport needs upgrading. Back on the train the Chamber of Commerce

:45:04.:45:10.

point is supported by chocker full carriages. Hang on say HS2, look at

:45:11.:45:16.

the space in first class, a bit of configuration and you could achieve

:45:17.:45:20.

more capacity at a fraction of the cost. Critics fear politicians are

:45:21.:45:26.

in no mood to listen. A huge amount of capital has been invested and the

:45:27.:45:31.

governing parties have committed to do it, arguing this will regenerate

:45:32.:45:36.

the north of England. I don't think that is the case. Because of the

:45:37.:45:39.

sunk costs because of that political capital, I think it is very unlikely

:45:40.:45:43.

the major parties will change their stance now.

:45:44.:45:58.

Well we're in Euston, we haven't finished editing the piece, we could

:45:59.:46:06.

have done with ten more minutes, that is not something that HS2 could

:46:07.:46:13.

have helped us with. Just to let you know MPs have rejected an amendment

:46:14.:46:20.

opposing the HS2 bill by 451 votes to 50, which is a Government

:46:21.:46:25.

majority of 401, so it has the go ahead. Time for the papers. If you

:46:26.:46:28.

have been paying attention you will know most of tomorrow's front pages

:46:29.:46:33.

already. But the sudden availability of seven-and-a-half million digital

:46:34.:46:37.

newspaper pages, dating back centuries at the British Library's

:46:38.:46:41.

new archive in central London, opens up all sorts of other possibilities.

:46:42.:46:48.

On April 29th 1914 for example the Birmingham gas stet reports that at

:46:49.:46:52.

the instigation of Mr Churchill some of the Irish counties are being

:46:53.:46:56.

offered a temporary opt-out of the Home Rule bill, that should settle

:46:57.:47:05.

things out forever then. April 29th 1918 it talks about -- 1819 talk

:47:06.:47:13.

about Napoleon recovering from a disposition, which we know now to be

:47:14.:47:20.

a suicide attempt. And the Paris Gazette from 1718 reports the death

:47:21.:47:27.

of the daughter of the countess of Derby from small pocks. And sea

:47:28.:47:31.

stocks were doing well so nip out and buy a few of those. That is

:47:32.:47:36.

almost it. The 450th anniversary of what is traditionally regarded as

:47:37.:47:41.

Shakespeare's birthday as all well informed people know occurred last

:47:42.:47:46.

week, we will continue to mark it, tomorrow Harriet Walter will be our

:47:47.:47:50.

guest. Tonight we leave you with sonnet 129 and Ralph Fiennes. The

:47:51.:48:02.

expense of spirit in a waste of shame is lust in action.

:48:03.:48:15.

And still action lust is purged, murderous, bloody, full of blame,

:48:16.:48:26.

savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust, enjoyed no sooner but

:48:27.:48:33.

despise'd straight. Past reason, hunted and no sooner had past reason

:48:34.:48:40.

hated as a swallowed bait on purpose laid to make the taker mad. Mad in

:48:41.:48:48.

pursuit, and in possession so. Had, having and in quest to have extreme.

:48:49.:49:00.

A bliss in proof and proved a very woe before a joy proposed behind a

:49:01.:49:11.

dream. All this the world well knows. Yet none knows well to shun

:49:12.:49:19.

the heaven that leads men to this hell.

:49:20.:49:46.

Hello there, there is going to be more mist and fog around,

:49:47.:49:48.

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