09/05/2014 Newsnight


Live in Moscow and Ukraine as the violence flairs up again. Nigeria mass kidnap. The punishment for internet piracy - a friendly letter? Alan Bennett at 80.

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A deadly battle in the Ukrainian City between Government forces and


pro-Russian militants leaves at least seven people reported dead. As


the tensions reignite, we're in Donetsk in the north. There is


violence on the streets today in the Ukraine, every time it happens this


region moves one step closer to full-blown Civil War. In Red Square


President Putin commemorates VE Day with massive show of force and then


heads to Crimea. What we have seen today was an extraordinary display


of what some call Putinism, a heady mixture of nationalism, military


might and nostalgia for Russia's past. And this. Except of course it


is not. A proposed deal with the Internet service providers could


mean the penalty for internet piracy is a gently telling off. A rap star


is not impressed. Happy birthday Alan Bennett, 80 today, any regrets?


I'm very ill-read, it is hard to believe but it is true. One of the


advantages of being 80 is I now know I can't do anything about this.


Good evening, in a crisis characterised by shies and faints by


the Russian leader, President Putin's appearance at a parade today


as part of Russia's victory today in World War II was straight forwardly


triumphant. He praised the people of Crimea showing loyalty to an


historical truth in choosing to be part of Russia. The US State


Department called his day as unnecessary and provocative.


First in the Ukrainian port city, a two-hour battle between the


Ukrainian army and pro-Russian supporters left seven dead.


Ukrainian army and pro-Russian tensions couldn't be higher, with


less than 24 hours to go until people in parts of Ukraine vote on


whether or not to join Russia. I have been speaking a short while ago


to somebody inside the city, they tell me the atmosphere is very, very


tense tonight. Men roaming the streets, some of them drunk from


this Victory Day celebration, but crucially angry over the killings


that took place today. The most conservative estimate is seven


people dead, we think that figure almost certainly will be higher. Now


every time this happens this part of Ukraine inches a little bit closer


to full-blown Civil War. The divisions in Ukraine deepen and


become more bitter. In western capitals we hear people talking


about the need to deescalate the situation. But the truth is it is


getting harder and harder to control the militias that are operating


here. I spent the day trying to piece


together what took place in the City, and also meeting a militia


trying to hold this country together. I should warn you some of


the images in this report are disturbing.


Today Ukrainian soldiers opened fire, apparently on unarmed


civilians. Kiev had been hoping to avoid scenes like these, with what


has, until now, been a relatively cautious security operation in the


east. But not all the pro-Russian protesters were unarmed. Here on the


right of the screen a man in black is clearly seen firing a pistol


towards a Ukrainian soldier. Moments later another shot rings out and man


falls to the ground. Today Kiev's soft low-softly approach appeared to


harden. The Government says it sent in the troops to confront around 60


pro-Russian gunmen who had taken over the police headquarters in the


centre of the city. The building has changed hands several times in


recent days after an intense gun GATT bathle this afternoon, both the


seperatist and the army apparently abandoned the place, leaving it to


the flames. These flames could now easily spread through this volatile


region. 06 miles away we met some pro-Russian fighters setting off for


the town. All local volunteers, financed and armed by


patriotic-minded Ukrainians opposed to the break-up of their country. In


normal life sur gay is a priest. Now he -- Sergei is a priest, now he has


taken up a Kalashnikov and he's prepared to use it. We have to deal


with the Russian invasion. It is Russian Special Forces. They take


command. Russian Special Forces have to be taken away. By any means


necessary? Yes. "Glory to Ukraine" they cry as they get ready to take


the fight to the seperatists. The situation in this region is drawing


in people, these pro-Government, pro-Kiev, but the danger is it will


also be drawing in people from the other side as this escalates. They


squeeze as many as they can into their only minivan. We are ready to


shoot our way through any checkpoints they say. If they do


make it there they will become yet another combustible element in what


is already a highly volatile mix. The turbulent happenings in Ukraine


are followed nowhere more closely than in Moscow, where today ahead of


the visit to Crimea, President Putin parade the military might of the


country on VE Day. We were there. It is day for the remembrance of


past sacrifice. It is one when Russians s of all opinions revel in


the feeling that this is a country to be reckoned with. For us,


watching with them, today's parade and fly-past in Moscow were also a


timely reminder of President Putin's popularity. Do you think President


Putin has made the country stronger? Yes I think so. I think he's the


best President from the new history of Russia. Russians are deeply proud


of their victory and their Armed Forces. And President Putin's


personal ratings have never been higher. But in the wake of his


actions on Ukraine many of Russia's neighbours are now fearful. In Red


Square veterans, weighed down with medals and memories looked on at


those who have inherited their legacy. The Armed Forces that took


Crimea are now standing ready in a policy spelt out by their leaders to


protect Russians in neighbouring states. Countries with large Russian


populations can only survive if they take the needs of those people into


account and their interests, including their cultural identity


and things like that language. Provided that they keep good


relations with the Russian federation. It doesn't mean they


have to join the Russian federation. But it means that they should never


think of opposing the Russian federation. For the President, who


headed straight from the parade to Crimea, there is no apparent


contradiction between the war time fight against Nazis, today's moves


against fascists, as he always them in Ukraine, and the championing of


Russian fights based on language or fate. Ultra nationalists have booked


Putin enthusiastically, and say if the Baltic or other former Soviet


Republics now worry, that is a bonus. It is very good that they are


worried, because we are worried about millions of noncitizens,


Russians who speak Russians, they are non--citizens, they have no --


noncitizens, they have no passports, they have no power, rights in the


Baltic Republics. Firstly the resultic Republics should take --


Baltic Republics should make decisions, that Russians in Baltic


Republics are citizens, then they will not worry about anything. The


power of economic achievements bears witness to the failure of the Soviet


model. No amount of workers could save it from bankruptcy and


break-up. I met a rising figure in the beleaguered opposition to get


his take on the role in Putin's new ideology of symbols, like the St


George ribbon, which is everywhere now. I respect this symbol, because


for me it is a symbol of the great victory. But I see that for many


for me it is a symbol of the great people in Russia, in Kiev, in Baltic


countries, it is a symbol of aggressive Russia. Will he succeed


in creating what you might call a new Russian nationalism, or will


people be resistant. Right now he's very popular in the polls? Putin is


not about empire, he is just about money. He's just about oligarchs,


he's just about his friends who are oligarchs, and actually you know


Putin really wants to rule like Stalin. But actually he wants to


live like Abramovic. And you cannot have both things at the same time.


Down in Crimea, President Putin launched himself into more displays


of might. At sea and in the air. Much of the world may regard


Russia's annexation as illegal, so Russian officials have faced


sanctions as a result. But the President's message to Crimeans is


that together they would weather it. TRANSLATION: There is a lot of work


in front of us, but me and you will overcome all difficulty, because we


are together, and that means we have become even more powerful. Happy


Victory Day. But some go too far in this heady atmosphere of nationalism


and post-Soviet nostalgia, perhaps that is to be expected. We saw many


images of Stalin today, and that hints of passions and models of


leadership that could cause President Putin serious problems,


choking his relationship with the west and its sources of capital. The


crisis with the west could either lead to Russia f it is smart,


getting to a high orbit economically or if Russia succumbs to its very


well known problems and flaws, it could lead to breakdown and possibly


a break-up of Russia. So the stakes can hardly be higher than they are


today. The President's actions in Ukraine have already produced


economic consequences, and if the Victory Day party isn't to be


followed by a national hangover that could last years, Mr Putin will need


every ounce of his political skill. We're joined live now from Moscow.


The EU are threatening more sanctions and that will happen on


Monday. Will this affect Putin's next move? These EU sanctions are


one of the constraints that now operate in Mr Putin's mind. Along


with US economic sanctions and Russian public opinion, when you're


here it becomes very clear that many, many Russians would be deeply


reluctant to see Russian troops invade Ukraine, not Crimea, eastern


Ukraine, and fight. This, if you like, lines up all the key


constituencies on the point of Russian troops, that is why we


haven't seen the full scale invasion as some people would call it to


date. But, the US and EU, because they can see that's the way


President Putin is thinking, are now talking about introducing more


stringent sanctions. Particularly the US, what they call sectoral


sanctions, targeted at the banking or oil sectors, for example. They


are talking about doing that in the coming days, even without a Russian


invasion. Now how far that will, if you like,


do what the Americans want and if the EU does something similar, how


far it will do what they want, in encouraging President Putin to make


greater efforts to de-escalate the situation, we don't know. One thing


I think is clear, that key constituency, Russian public


opinion, could change as we see more of these tragic events on the


ground. Odessa, and Mariople, if they carry on day in, day out in the


coming weeks, Russian opinion will change over whether what they call


peacekeeping troops should go into eastern and southern Ukraine. You


never know, by that point, EU and US opinion about whether Russia should


be stopped from doing that might change too.


A British team arrived in Lagos today to join the American and


Nigerian search for the girls kidnapped by Boko Haram as Amnesty


International leased a report claiming that Nigerian security


forces had at least four hours advance warning on the raid on the


state-run school and failed to act. Amnesty's Africa director said it


amounted to a gross deriliction of Nigeria's duty to protect civilians.


My guest is here. What are some of the more devastating details


appearing from the testimonies? Our research is talking to many people


in northern Nigeria and have heard from many and from official sources


and two senior military men that they did have four hours notice and


nothing happened. There were military nearby, within 100kms, who


could have been mobilised and they weren't. So these girls, in the


school, were left defenceless. You heard also in your testimonies that


the Nigerian forces were terrified of Boko Haram? Yes and they didn't


feel able to confront them. There were small numbers actually in


Chibok, and the majority of soldiers were elsewhere. They could have been


mobilised. But the thing here too is we were reporting at the end of last


year about 50 schools being burnt down, 70 teachers being slaughtered,


and children being murdered. The Nigerian authorities have had so


long to have time where they could have been providing protection to


those girls in that school and other schools in the region. Sky News are


reporting, a single report on Sky News tonight that devices used by


the American and British forces are hearing that there a the hearing of


some girls, and some technology is allowing them to hear into the


forest, there is hope they are alive and within the border? We must


absolutely hope for that. Amnesty produced a report earlier that 2,000


people have been killed in the last year in Nigeria. It strikes me that


you weren't able, organisations like you were not able to cut through


with that information, it has taken the kidnap of these girls to


galvanise both public opinion and international opinion, why was


Amnesty not cutting through? We have been reporting about this all


through the year and pushing through. I think it is the way the


parents fought and we are proud of our solidarity with that. If it took


foreign boots to get the girls back would you support that? Amnesty


doesn't make those judgments, but we are glad to see that type of


technology at the disposal of the Nigerian Government.


If you were one of the legions of fans of the US theories Game of


Thrones, it must be tempting to break copyright law and download the


latest episode on American TV to keep ahead. I'm not suggesting you


should. There was once talk of cutting off the Internet if you


behaved that way, now not so much. A draft agreement between the content


providers and internet companies seen by the BBC suggests a new soft


low-softly approach. No more will they try to scare the living day


lights out of music and film fans. Instead a series of polite letters


to inform and educate, if you ignore the letters?


The Government has rather struggled to deal with digital piracy,


legislation exists in the form of the digital economy act of 2010,


that would allow the cutting off or strangling of an infringers internet


connection. However legal and technical difficulties means the


policy remains fuzzy and unused. One of the big problems was the way it


was introduced in the wash-up period of the Labour Government and it was


forced through. Internet providers and the entertainment industry have


got together to hammer out an approach about copyright infringers


and who manages the system. We have got hold of a paper that points it a


less severe approach. It says if your internet providers sees you are


downloading illegally, they will send you a letter that what you are


doing is wrong and pointing you to places where you can buy content


legally. If you ignore that you get another letter, ignore that and you


get a another letter. After that there is one final sanction, another


letter. People are going to be collecting information about alleged


criminal or civil offences. Storing that information for some time. We


really need to know more about that. It is a pretty extraordinary thing


for somebody to be doing, whether or not they are going to use that in


court proceedings in the future? Previously the entertainment


industry has tried to frighten us into paying for content. Backed up


in the United States at least with a few huge fines. One student told to


pay ?675,000 for downloading Munich. Has this proved counter-productive.


I have always worried if going after music fans is really a good idea.


This is an issue of consumer education, they say the point of the


letters is to inform people about what is happening. I think a better


way to do it is for the major record labels to declare that they are


going to pay artists 50% of digital royalties on albums that have


recouped, and recruit artists to come forward and say I will be


making music, you like my music, would you support me. I think that


would be a much better way to educate consumers rather than


sending them these pathetic little letters.


Rather than taking every download to civil court, the people who make the


music and movies are trying to make the content available easily and


cheaply on legal sites like Netflix the content available easily and


and Innant Video, many are prepared to cough up a few pounds for


reliable and legal content. There is every reason to use the commercial


services, which are just hugely by-election hugely more convenient,


and of course that's what's happening. People are not choosing


the free but dreadful service, they are going for the slightly quite low


cost, but really easy to use ones. Meanwhile the entertainment industry


continues to go after the illegal file sharing sites, trying to starve


them of advertising revenue. One attack is to say who are the players


involved in this, the people selling the advertising and the credit card


companies processing the payments. Those people, are they players, can


we squeeze them in some way. The lesson of recent years seems to be


that the law moves far too slowly to deal with piracy. The only thing


that may have a hope of keeping pace with technology is, technology! I'm


joined by the musician guest and a technology writer.


First of all you have a new album coming out before the end of the


year, how do you feel about the fact that people will listen to it for


free? I feel like, you know when people download music for free, you


put your heart into it and making music, I share everything I'm going


in, and to put all that effort is art for me, for people to download


it for free I don't agree with that. They are getting a better? A third


and a second letter. I was going to say that doesn't change anything, I


think a letter stopping piracy isn't going to work. Would you like to see


people punished in some way or fined a reasonable amount of money? I say


a lot of people are not aware it is illegal, some of the younger


generations coming up, there is so many options on the Internet. There


is a way where there is a next step, maybe, but the letters are not going


to work. It is obvious there is not going to be a big stick, will that


kill new music? No, I don't think so, artists are in a really


difficult position. On the one hand they don't want to punish fans, they


want to publish the people who le but not their fans. There is no way


people will not the flood of pyrecy. I can't see it killing new music as


there is a lot of money around in the music industry. Record labels


need to look at other ways of making money. Have you ever downloaded


illegally? No, I'm atypical in that regard. It may not kill new music


but what if it were you starting out now? It will kill music, a lot of


people say do we do shows and tours only people like Madonna and


Coldplay can do that and they don't need to make money there. You need


to make money to carry on doing music. The thing is to sell. You had


Billy Brag and radiohead had that thing of asking people to pay what


they thought? Personally I wouldn't. What will happen then? People get


bored when gay men start banging on about mad done national cirriculum I


will. Years ago she did something smart, at the end of her record


contract. Hang on a minute, she was a massive star before she did that?


Of course that. She wasn't a young person starting out? You have to


understand that the same technology that is causing problems for piracy


is also enabling new artists to go up on-line. So many new artists who


sell millions were discovered on the Internet. There is a lot more


grassroots artists propelled to stardom by fans on technological


platforms than before. The power of record label A is in decline. I


kind of agree with people saying it needs to evolve, I don't believe,


that doesn't no sense it is devaluing it if you are making music


where you guy fans. I should be clear I'm a content creator, I


write, my bread and butter is writing and I consider it to be art


and what I create. You have to admit at some point there is no stemming


the tide. What is a way that we can actually manoeuvre the change into


for example subscription models, Apple for example said they wouldn't


have any struck with streaming content, until about two years ago


with Steve Jobs, or today they have bought a content streaming company?


Steve Jobs didn't want anything to do with streaming he wanted a file


on a computer. He believed a direct relationship to having a file and


paying money. I have so much sympathy, I like that model for all


sorts of different content. But the reality is you are not going to stop


it happening, it is polite to say that and I know why you say that,


that people don't know they are doing wrong. They do, and they do it


any way. The majority of people, the younger generation might not think


they are doing anything wrong. It is a habit they get into it and their


friends. Is there an a habit they get into it and their


people necessarily don't want to own your content but want access to it.


More people access and fewer people own it? I guess the Internet helps


because when you have up and coming artists you help people hear your


music. But as in what the art is, I believe it is devaluing more and


more where people are saying have it for free and it is not how it should


be. It is counterintuitive and painful for those of us who create


content, but it seems to be inexable.


Alan Bennett 80 years old today in the midst of his best years. Some of


his best hits happened on the other side of 50, not least The History


Boys, he turned down a Knighthood and winses at the term "national


treasure sure". He famously said you don't put your life into books you


find it there. Here he is talking to his friend in an exclusive extract


in a forth coming interview. I'm very ill read, I don't know if that


sounds modest but it is true. I like American literature more than I do


contemporary English literature. I don't feel any of the people writing


in England can tell me very much. That may be unfair. Writing seems to


me spoils you for reading. If I'm trying to write something I will


tend to read only you know superficial stuff. I don't read


anything which would make me think I can't do as well at this. Which I'm


very much prey to. And then they said, take your clothes off now. And


I didn't. I didn't. And I wanted him so much. They came back poems, the


first talking head I wrote was about a woman who was dying. And then I


wrote the next six quite quickly, then there was a gap and then I


wrote another six and people say, people write to me and say would you


like to come and talk to us, perhaps you could write a talkinghead, as if


I could just run it off and there was nothing I would like more. But


you know they came from I suppose deep down it is not there any more.


You have written about how there was a definite change in the way you


wrote when you were diagnosed with cancer, when you thought you were


going to die. You said it acted like a laxative on you? I put a spur on.


I think -- a spurt on, it happened when I was diagnosed in 1997, it was


you know, they didn't, they said I had a 50-50 chance of surviving, the


truth was I actually had a one in five chance. So I was very, very


lucky. Anybodywas I actually had a one in five chance. So I was very,


very lucky. Anybody would think by the time we got to the History Boys


in 2004 the shadow was receding. I think some of that was renewed life


and vigour, which is not a word I normally associate with myself, fed


into The History Boys probably. One of the defining features of your


work is that you invite empathy for people who if the kind of audience


that comes to the theatre would encounter in real life they would


run a mile from? And I would run a mile as well. Is writing in some way


a means of encountering stuff that you would not encounter or you would


avoid encountering in life? It is also a way of doing things that


people wouldn't expect you to do either in writing or in life. I mean


I think of things to say or to do and I think all the people won't


want to hear that from me and then I think why not. Particularly as I


have got older, that's much more the case. The wonderful Alan Bennett at


80. You can see the full interview at 9.00 on BBC Four.


Before we go, a quick plug, this August Newsnight will be heading to


the Edinburgh Festival for a special programme exploring what Scottish


independence would mean for the cultural future of the UK. And Scots


near the referendum ballot box, the comedian Rory Brenner among others


has called for levity. We have had a talent contest, Newsnight Referendum


Review, part of the show in Edinburgh. Here is how you get


involved. Newsnight is on the hunt for great


performances that address the issue of Scottish independence and the


future of the kingdom, anything knows as long as it is entertaining


and thought provoking, stand-up, sketches, mini-musicals, songs,


poetry or dance, if you are getting inspiration from the yes-no debate


we want to hear from you. The acts will perform live before a judging


panel and studio audience at the Newsnight Edinburgh Fringe Special


on Tuesday the 21st August. Only one will be declared winner of the


Newsnight Review, upload a 60 second sample of your material at the BBC


website. The deadline is Sunday 26th July, don't wait until the closing


date. Get to it. Tomorrow's front pages,


just the Telegraph and Mail. That is almost it for this week


which marks the passing of a broadcast legend from his regular


BBC spot. Alan Hansen will have his last Match of the Day. We will look


at the subtle way he dealt with Jimmy Hill. All I'm saying is if he


had allowed McManemen his way in the end he would have opened up the way


for Fowler. Jimmy be quiet will you. Also he could