09/05/2014 Newsnight


09/05/2014

Live in Moscow and Ukraine as the violence flairs up again. Nigeria mass kidnap. The punishment for internet piracy - a friendly letter? Alan Bennett at 80.


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Transcript


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A deadly battle in the Ukrainian City between Government forces and

:00:00.:00:11.

pro-Russian militants leaves at least seven people reported dead. As

:00:12.:00:21.

the tensions reignite, we're in Donetsk in the north. There is

:00:22.:00:25.

violence on the streets today in the Ukraine, every time it happens this

:00:26.:00:29.

region moves one step closer to full-blown Civil War. In Red Square

:00:30.:00:34.

President Putin commemorates VE Day with massive show of force and then

:00:35.:00:39.

heads to Crimea. What we have seen today was an extraordinary display

:00:40.:00:46.

of what some call Putinism, a heady mixture of nationalism, military

:00:47.:00:49.

might and nostalgia for Russia's past. And this. Except of course it

:00:50.:01:02.

is not. A proposed deal with the Internet service providers could

:01:03.:01:07.

mean the penalty for internet piracy is a gently telling off. A rap star

:01:08.:01:13.

is not impressed. Happy birthday Alan Bennett, 80 today, any regrets?

:01:14.:01:20.

I'm very ill-read, it is hard to believe but it is true. One of the

:01:21.:01:26.

advantages of being 80 is I now know I can't do anything about this.

:01:27.:01:37.

Good evening, in a crisis characterised by shies and faints by

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the Russian leader, President Putin's appearance at a parade today

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as part of Russia's victory today in World War II was straight forwardly

:01:50.:01:53.

triumphant. He praised the people of Crimea showing loyalty to an

:01:54.:01:58.

historical truth in choosing to be part of Russia. The US State

:01:59.:02:06.

Department called his day as unnecessary and provocative.

:02:07.:02:11.

First in the Ukrainian port city, a two-hour battle between the

:02:12.:02:17.

Ukrainian army and pro-Russian supporters left seven dead.

:02:18.:02:20.

Ukrainian army and pro-Russian tensions couldn't be higher, with

:02:21.:02:23.

less than 24 hours to go until people in parts of Ukraine vote on

:02:24.:02:33.

whether or not to join Russia. I have been speaking a short while ago

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to somebody inside the city, they tell me the atmosphere is very, very

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tense tonight. Men roaming the streets, some of them drunk from

:02:42.:02:46.

this Victory Day celebration, but crucially angry over the killings

:02:47.:02:51.

that took place today. The most conservative estimate is seven

:02:52.:02:55.

people dead, we think that figure almost certainly will be higher. Now

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every time this happens this part of Ukraine inches a little bit closer

:03:01.:03:05.

to full-blown Civil War. The divisions in Ukraine deepen and

:03:06.:03:08.

become more bitter. In western capitals we hear people talking

:03:09.:03:12.

about the need to deescalate the situation. But the truth is it is

:03:13.:03:16.

getting harder and harder to control the militias that are operating

:03:17.:03:19.

here. I spent the day trying to piece

:03:20.:03:22.

together what took place in the City, and also meeting a militia

:03:23.:03:27.

trying to hold this country together. I should warn you some of

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the images in this report are disturbing.

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Today Ukrainian soldiers opened fire, apparently on unarmed

:03:39.:03:48.

civilians. Kiev had been hoping to avoid scenes like these, with what

:03:49.:03:53.

has, until now, been a relatively cautious security operation in the

:03:54.:03:58.

east. But not all the pro-Russian protesters were unarmed. Here on the

:03:59.:04:06.

right of the screen a man in black is clearly seen firing a pistol

:04:07.:04:13.

towards a Ukrainian soldier. Moments later another shot rings out and man

:04:14.:04:23.

falls to the ground. Today Kiev's soft low-softly approach appeared to

:04:24.:04:27.

harden. The Government says it sent in the troops to confront around 60

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pro-Russian gunmen who had taken over the police headquarters in the

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centre of the city. The building has changed hands several times in

:04:38.:04:41.

recent days after an intense gun GATT bathle this afternoon, both the

:04:42.:04:47.

seperatist and the army apparently abandoned the place, leaving it to

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the flames. These flames could now easily spread through this volatile

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region. 06 miles away we met some pro-Russian fighters setting off for

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the town. All local volunteers, financed and armed by

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patriotic-minded Ukrainians opposed to the break-up of their country. In

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normal life sur gay is a priest. Now he -- Sergei is a priest, now he has

:05:20.:05:24.

taken up a Kalashnikov and he's prepared to use it. We have to deal

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with the Russian invasion. It is Russian Special Forces. They take

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command. Russian Special Forces have to be taken away. By any means

:05:39.:05:53.

necessary? Yes. "Glory to Ukraine" they cry as they get ready to take

:05:54.:05:58.

the fight to the seperatists. The situation in this region is drawing

:05:59.:06:02.

in people, these pro-Government, pro-Kiev, but the danger is it will

:06:03.:06:07.

also be drawing in people from the other side as this escalates. They

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squeeze as many as they can into their only minivan. We are ready to

:06:14.:06:16.

shoot our way through any checkpoints they say. If they do

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make it there they will become yet another combustible element in what

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is already a highly volatile mix. The turbulent happenings in Ukraine

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are followed nowhere more closely than in Moscow, where today ahead of

:06:32.:06:38.

the visit to Crimea, President Putin parade the military might of the

:06:39.:06:43.

country on VE Day. We were there. It is day for the remembrance of

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past sacrifice. It is one when Russians s of all opinions revel in

:06:52.:06:55.

the feeling that this is a country to be reckoned with. For us,

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watching with them, today's parade and fly-past in Moscow were also a

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timely reminder of President Putin's popularity. Do you think President

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Putin has made the country stronger? Yes I think so. I think he's the

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best President from the new history of Russia. Russians are deeply proud

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of their victory and their Armed Forces. And President Putin's

:07:26.:07:29.

personal ratings have never been higher. But in the wake of his

:07:30.:07:34.

actions on Ukraine many of Russia's neighbours are now fearful. In Red

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Square veterans, weighed down with medals and memories looked on at

:07:44.:07:46.

those who have inherited their legacy. The Armed Forces that took

:07:47.:07:51.

Crimea are now standing ready in a policy spelt out by their leaders to

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protect Russians in neighbouring states. Countries with large Russian

:07:55.:08:09.

populations can only survive if they take the needs of those people into

:08:10.:08:13.

account and their interests, including their cultural identity

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and things like that language. Provided that they keep good

:08:19.:08:21.

relations with the Russian federation. It doesn't mean they

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have to join the Russian federation. But it means that they should never

:08:26.:08:30.

think of opposing the Russian federation. For the President, who

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headed straight from the parade to Crimea, there is no apparent

:08:36.:08:40.

contradiction between the war time fight against Nazis, today's moves

:08:41.:08:45.

against fascists, as he always them in Ukraine, and the championing of

:08:46.:08:51.

Russian fights based on language or fate. Ultra nationalists have booked

:08:52.:08:57.

Putin enthusiastically, and say if the Baltic or other former Soviet

:08:58.:09:00.

Republics now worry, that is a bonus. It is very good that they are

:09:01.:09:07.

worried, because we are worried about millions of noncitizens,

:09:08.:09:16.

Russians who speak Russians, they are non--citizens, they have no --

:09:17.:09:21.

noncitizens, they have no passports, they have no power, rights in the

:09:22.:09:27.

Baltic Republics. Firstly the resultic Republics should take --

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Baltic Republics should make decisions, that Russians in Baltic

:09:33.:09:37.

Republics are citizens, then they will not worry about anything. The

:09:38.:09:43.

power of economic achievements bears witness to the failure of the Soviet

:09:44.:09:49.

model. No amount of workers could save it from bankruptcy and

:09:50.:09:56.

break-up. I met a rising figure in the beleaguered opposition to get

:09:57.:10:02.

his take on the role in Putin's new ideology of symbols, like the St

:10:03.:10:06.

George ribbon, which is everywhere now. I respect this symbol, because

:10:07.:10:12.

for me it is a symbol of the great victory. But I see that for many

:10:13.:10:15.

for me it is a symbol of the great people in Russia, in Kiev, in Baltic

:10:16.:10:20.

countries, it is a symbol of aggressive Russia. Will he succeed

:10:21.:10:23.

in creating what you might call a new Russian nationalism, or will

:10:24.:10:27.

people be resistant. Right now he's very popular in the polls? Putin is

:10:28.:10:33.

not about empire, he is just about money. He's just about oligarchs,

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he's just about his friends who are oligarchs, and actually you know

:10:40.:10:44.

Putin really wants to rule like Stalin. But actually he wants to

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live like Abramovic. And you cannot have both things at the same time.

:10:54.:10:58.

Down in Crimea, President Putin launched himself into more displays

:10:59.:11:04.

of might. At sea and in the air. Much of the world may regard

:11:05.:11:10.

Russia's annexation as illegal, so Russian officials have faced

:11:11.:11:13.

sanctions as a result. But the President's message to Crimeans is

:11:14.:11:17.

that together they would weather it. TRANSLATION: There is a lot of work

:11:18.:11:22.

in front of us, but me and you will overcome all difficulty, because we

:11:23.:11:26.

are together, and that means we have become even more powerful. Happy

:11:27.:11:35.

Victory Day. But some go too far in this heady atmosphere of nationalism

:11:36.:11:41.

and post-Soviet nostalgia, perhaps that is to be expected. We saw many

:11:42.:11:45.

images of Stalin today, and that hints of passions and models of

:11:46.:11:50.

leadership that could cause President Putin serious problems,

:11:51.:11:54.

choking his relationship with the west and its sources of capital. The

:11:55.:12:02.

crisis with the west could either lead to Russia f it is smart,

:12:03.:12:11.

getting to a high orbit economically or if Russia succumbs to its very

:12:12.:12:15.

well known problems and flaws, it could lead to breakdown and possibly

:12:16.:12:21.

a break-up of Russia. So the stakes can hardly be higher than they are

:12:22.:12:28.

today. The President's actions in Ukraine have already produced

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economic consequences, and if the Victory Day party isn't to be

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followed by a national hangover that could last years, Mr Putin will need

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every ounce of his political skill. We're joined live now from Moscow.

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The EU are threatening more sanctions and that will happen on

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Monday. Will this affect Putin's next move? These EU sanctions are

:12:55.:13:00.

one of the constraints that now operate in Mr Putin's mind. Along

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with US economic sanctions and Russian public opinion, when you're

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here it becomes very clear that many, many Russians would be deeply

:13:10.:13:15.

reluctant to see Russian troops invade Ukraine, not Crimea, eastern

:13:16.:13:23.

Ukraine, and fight. This, if you like, lines up all the key

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constituencies on the point of Russian troops, that is why we

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haven't seen the full scale invasion as some people would call it to

:13:31.:13:36.

date. But, the US and EU, because they can see that's the way

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President Putin is thinking, are now talking about introducing more

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stringent sanctions. Particularly the US, what they call sectoral

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sanctions, targeted at the banking or oil sectors, for example. They

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are talking about doing that in the coming days, even without a Russian

:13:57.:13:59.

invasion. Now how far that will, if you like,

:14:00.:14:04.

do what the Americans want and if the EU does something similar, how

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far it will do what they want, in encouraging President Putin to make

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greater efforts to de-escalate the situation, we don't know. One thing

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I think is clear, that key constituency, Russian public

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opinion, could change as we see more of these tragic events on the

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ground. Odessa, and Mariople, if they carry on day in, day out in the

:14:32.:14:37.

coming weeks, Russian opinion will change over whether what they call

:14:38.:14:41.

peacekeeping troops should go into eastern and southern Ukraine. You

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never know, by that point, EU and US opinion about whether Russia should

:14:46.:14:48.

be stopped from doing that might change too.

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A British team arrived in Lagos today to join the American and

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Nigerian search for the girls kidnapped by Boko Haram as Amnesty

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International leased a report claiming that Nigerian security

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forces had at least four hours advance warning on the raid on the

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state-run school and failed to act. Amnesty's Africa director said it

:15:16.:15:21.

amounted to a gross deriliction of Nigeria's duty to protect civilians.

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My guest is here. What are some of the more devastating details

:15:27.:15:31.

appearing from the testimonies? Our research is talking to many people

:15:32.:15:35.

in northern Nigeria and have heard from many and from official sources

:15:36.:15:41.

and two senior military men that they did have four hours notice and

:15:42.:15:47.

nothing happened. There were military nearby, within 100kms, who

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could have been mobilised and they weren't. So these girls, in the

:15:52.:15:56.

school, were left defenceless. You heard also in your testimonies that

:15:57.:16:01.

the Nigerian forces were terrified of Boko Haram? Yes and they didn't

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feel able to confront them. There were small numbers actually in

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Chibok, and the majority of soldiers were elsewhere. They could have been

:16:12.:16:15.

mobilised. But the thing here too is we were reporting at the end of last

:16:16.:16:21.

year about 50 schools being burnt down, 70 teachers being slaughtered,

:16:22.:16:26.

and children being murdered. The Nigerian authorities have had so

:16:27.:16:31.

long to have time where they could have been providing protection to

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those girls in that school and other schools in the region. Sky News are

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reporting, a single report on Sky News tonight that devices used by

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the American and British forces are hearing that there a the hearing of

:16:44.:16:53.

some girls, and some technology is allowing them to hear into the

:16:54.:16:56.

forest, there is hope they are alive and within the border? We must

:16:57.:17:02.

absolutely hope for that. Amnesty produced a report earlier that 2,000

:17:03.:17:07.

people have been killed in the last year in Nigeria. It strikes me that

:17:08.:17:11.

you weren't able, organisations like you were not able to cut through

:17:12.:17:14.

with that information, it has taken the kidnap of these girls to

:17:15.:17:19.

galvanise both public opinion and international opinion, why was

:17:20.:17:30.

Amnesty not cutting through? We have been reporting about this all

:17:31.:17:33.

through the year and pushing through. I think it is the way the

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parents fought and we are proud of our solidarity with that. If it took

:17:40.:17:43.

foreign boots to get the girls back would you support that? Amnesty

:17:44.:17:48.

doesn't make those judgments, but we are glad to see that type of

:17:49.:17:52.

technology at the disposal of the Nigerian Government.

:17:53.:17:56.

If you were one of the legions of fans of the US theories Game of

:17:57.:18:00.

Thrones, it must be tempting to break copyright law and download the

:18:01.:18:04.

latest episode on American TV to keep ahead. I'm not suggesting you

:18:05.:18:07.

should. There was once talk of cutting off the Internet if you

:18:08.:18:11.

behaved that way, now not so much. A draft agreement between the content

:18:12.:18:14.

providers and internet companies seen by the BBC suggests a new soft

:18:15.:18:20.

low-softly approach. No more will they try to scare the living day

:18:21.:18:26.

lights out of music and film fans. Instead a series of polite letters

:18:27.:18:32.

to inform and educate, if you ignore the letters?

:18:33.:18:34.

The Government has rather struggled to deal with digital piracy,

:18:35.:18:39.

legislation exists in the form of the digital economy act of 2010,

:18:40.:18:43.

that would allow the cutting off or strangling of an infringers internet

:18:44.:18:50.

connection. However legal and technical difficulties means the

:18:51.:18:54.

policy remains fuzzy and unused. One of the big problems was the way it

:18:55.:19:01.

was introduced in the wash-up period of the Labour Government and it was

:19:02.:19:06.

forced through. Internet providers and the entertainment industry have

:19:07.:19:09.

got together to hammer out an approach about copyright infringers

:19:10.:19:15.

and who manages the system. We have got hold of a paper that points it a

:19:16.:19:19.

less severe approach. It says if your internet providers sees you are

:19:20.:19:23.

downloading illegally, they will send you a letter that what you are

:19:24.:19:26.

doing is wrong and pointing you to places where you can buy content

:19:27.:19:31.

legally. If you ignore that you get another letter, ignore that and you

:19:32.:19:35.

get a another letter. After that there is one final sanction, another

:19:36.:19:39.

letter. People are going to be collecting information about alleged

:19:40.:19:46.

criminal or civil offences. Storing that information for some time. We

:19:47.:19:49.

really need to know more about that. It is a pretty extraordinary thing

:19:50.:19:54.

for somebody to be doing, whether or not they are going to use that in

:19:55.:19:56.

court proceedings in the future? Previously the entertainment

:19:57.:20:12.

industry has tried to frighten us into paying for content. Backed up

:20:13.:20:16.

in the United States at least with a few huge fines. One student told to

:20:17.:20:25.

pay ?675,000 for downloading Munich. Has this proved counter-productive.

:20:26.:20:29.

I have always worried if going after music fans is really a good idea.

:20:30.:20:35.

This is an issue of consumer education, they say the point of the

:20:36.:20:39.

letters is to inform people about what is happening. I think a better

:20:40.:20:45.

way to do it is for the major record labels to declare that they are

:20:46.:20:50.

going to pay artists 50% of digital royalties on albums that have

:20:51.:20:53.

recouped, and recruit artists to come forward and say I will be

:20:54.:20:57.

making music, you like my music, would you support me. I think that

:20:58.:21:02.

would be a much better way to educate consumers rather than

:21:03.:21:05.

sending them these pathetic little letters.

:21:06.:21:14.

Rather than taking every download to civil court, the people who make the

:21:15.:21:17.

music and movies are trying to make the content available easily and

:21:18.:21:20.

cheaply on legal sites like Netflix the content available easily and

:21:21.:21:29.

and Innant Video, many are prepared to cough up a few pounds for

:21:30.:21:33.

reliable and legal content. There is every reason to use the commercial

:21:34.:21:37.

services, which are just hugely by-election hugely more convenient,

:21:38.:21:40.

and of course that's what's happening. People are not choosing

:21:41.:21:44.

the free but dreadful service, they are going for the slightly quite low

:21:45.:21:52.

cost, but really easy to use ones. Meanwhile the entertainment industry

:21:53.:21:56.

continues to go after the illegal file sharing sites, trying to starve

:21:57.:22:02.

them of advertising revenue. One attack is to say who are the players

:22:03.:22:05.

involved in this, the people selling the advertising and the credit card

:22:06.:22:09.

companies processing the payments. Those people, are they players, can

:22:10.:22:15.

we squeeze them in some way. The lesson of recent years seems to be

:22:16.:22:19.

that the law moves far too slowly to deal with piracy. The only thing

:22:20.:22:23.

that may have a hope of keeping pace with technology is, technology! I'm

:22:24.:22:32.

joined by the musician guest and a technology writer.

:22:33.:22:34.

First of all you have a new album coming out before the end of the

:22:35.:22:38.

year, how do you feel about the fact that people will listen to it for

:22:39.:22:42.

free? I feel like, you know when people download music for free, you

:22:43.:22:46.

put your heart into it and making music, I share everything I'm going

:22:47.:22:51.

in, and to put all that effort is art for me, for people to download

:22:52.:22:59.

it for free I don't agree with that. They are getting a better? A third

:23:00.:23:04.

and a second letter. I was going to say that doesn't change anything, I

:23:05.:23:11.

think a letter stopping piracy isn't going to work. Would you like to see

:23:12.:23:16.

people punished in some way or fined a reasonable amount of money? I say

:23:17.:23:21.

a lot of people are not aware it is illegal, some of the younger

:23:22.:23:25.

generations coming up, there is so many options on the Internet. There

:23:26.:23:33.

is a way where there is a next step, maybe, but the letters are not going

:23:34.:23:39.

to work. It is obvious there is not going to be a big stick, will that

:23:40.:23:42.

kill new music? No, I don't think so, artists are in a really

:23:43.:23:45.

difficult position. On the one hand they don't want to punish fans, they

:23:46.:23:54.

want to publish the people who le but not their fans. There is no way

:23:55.:23:59.

people will not the flood of pyrecy. I can't see it killing new music as

:24:00.:24:05.

there is a lot of money around in the music industry. Record labels

:24:06.:24:09.

need to look at other ways of making money. Have you ever downloaded

:24:10.:24:17.

illegally? No, I'm atypical in that regard. It may not kill new music

:24:18.:24:24.

but what if it were you starting out now? It will kill music, a lot of

:24:25.:24:33.

people say do we do shows and tours only people like Madonna and

:24:34.:24:38.

Coldplay can do that and they don't need to make money there. You need

:24:39.:24:42.

to make money to carry on doing music. The thing is to sell. You had

:24:43.:24:54.

Billy Brag and radiohead had that thing of asking people to pay what

:24:55.:24:58.

they thought? Personally I wouldn't. What will happen then? People get

:24:59.:25:03.

bored when gay men start banging on about mad done national cirriculum I

:25:04.:25:06.

will. Years ago she did something smart, at the end of her record

:25:07.:25:10.

contract. Hang on a minute, she was a massive star before she did that?

:25:11.:25:14.

Of course that. She wasn't a young person starting out? You have to

:25:15.:25:17.

understand that the same technology that is causing problems for piracy

:25:18.:25:24.

is also enabling new artists to go up on-line. So many new artists who

:25:25.:25:28.

sell millions were discovered on the Internet. There is a lot more

:25:29.:25:32.

grassroots artists propelled to stardom by fans on technological

:25:33.:25:37.

platforms than before. The power of record label A is in decline. I

:25:38.:25:42.

kind of agree with people saying it needs to evolve, I don't believe,

:25:43.:25:47.

that doesn't no sense it is devaluing it if you are making music

:25:48.:25:53.

where you guy fans. I should be clear I'm a content creator, I

:25:54.:25:58.

write, my bread and butter is writing and I consider it to be art

:25:59.:26:02.

and what I create. You have to admit at some point there is no stemming

:26:03.:26:07.

the tide. What is a way that we can actually manoeuvre the change into

:26:08.:26:11.

for example subscription models, Apple for example said they wouldn't

:26:12.:26:15.

have any struck with streaming content, until about two years ago

:26:16.:26:20.

with Steve Jobs, or today they have bought a content streaming company?

:26:21.:26:24.

Steve Jobs didn't want anything to do with streaming he wanted a file

:26:25.:26:30.

on a computer. He believed a direct relationship to having a file and

:26:31.:26:33.

paying money. I have so much sympathy, I like that model for all

:26:34.:26:36.

sorts of different content. But the reality is you are not going to stop

:26:37.:26:41.

it happening, it is polite to say that and I know why you say that,

:26:42.:26:45.

that people don't know they are doing wrong. They do, and they do it

:26:46.:26:50.

any way. The majority of people, the younger generation might not think

:26:51.:26:52.

they are doing anything wrong. It is a habit they get into it and their

:26:53.:26:55.

friends. Is there an a habit they get into it and their

:26:56.:26:59.

people necessarily don't want to own your content but want access to it.

:27:00.:27:03.

More people access and fewer people own it? I guess the Internet helps

:27:04.:27:09.

because when you have up and coming artists you help people hear your

:27:10.:27:15.

music. But as in what the art is, I believe it is devaluing more and

:27:16.:27:18.

more where people are saying have it for free and it is not how it should

:27:19.:27:22.

be. It is counterintuitive and painful for those of us who create

:27:23.:27:27.

content, but it seems to be inexable.

:27:28.:27:35.

Alan Bennett 80 years old today in the midst of his best years. Some of

:27:36.:27:39.

his best hits happened on the other side of 50, not least The History

:27:40.:27:45.

Boys, he turned down a Knighthood and winses at the term "national

:27:46.:27:49.

treasure sure". He famously said you don't put your life into books you

:27:50.:27:55.

find it there. Here he is talking to his friend in an exclusive extract

:27:56.:28:01.

in a forth coming interview. I'm very ill read, I don't know if that

:28:02.:28:07.

sounds modest but it is true. I like American literature more than I do

:28:08.:28:13.

contemporary English literature. I don't feel any of the people writing

:28:14.:28:19.

in England can tell me very much. That may be unfair. Writing seems to

:28:20.:28:28.

me spoils you for reading. If I'm trying to write something I will

:28:29.:28:35.

tend to read only you know superficial stuff. I don't read

:28:36.:28:39.

anything which would make me think I can't do as well at this. Which I'm

:28:40.:28:50.

very much prey to. And then they said, take your clothes off now. And

:28:51.:29:02.

I didn't. I didn't. And I wanted him so much. They came back poems, the

:29:03.:29:13.

first talking head I wrote was about a woman who was dying. And then I

:29:14.:29:17.

wrote the next six quite quickly, then there was a gap and then I

:29:18.:29:22.

wrote another six and people say, people write to me and say would you

:29:23.:29:26.

like to come and talk to us, perhaps you could write a talkinghead, as if

:29:27.:29:32.

I could just run it off and there was nothing I would like more. But

:29:33.:29:40.

you know they came from I suppose deep down it is not there any more.

:29:41.:29:47.

You have written about how there was a definite change in the way you

:29:48.:29:51.

wrote when you were diagnosed with cancer, when you thought you were

:29:52.:29:54.

going to die. You said it acted like a laxative on you? I put a spur on.

:29:55.:30:03.

I think -- a spurt on, it happened when I was diagnosed in 1997, it was

:30:04.:30:09.

you know, they didn't, they said I had a 50-50 chance of surviving, the

:30:10.:30:15.

truth was I actually had a one in five chance. So I was very, very

:30:16.:30:28.

lucky. Anybodywas I actually had a one in five chance. So I was very,

:30:29.:30:31.

very lucky. Anybody would think by the time we got to the History Boys

:30:32.:30:34.

in 2004 the shadow was receding. I think some of that was renewed life

:30:35.:30:42.

and vigour, which is not a word I normally associate with myself, fed

:30:43.:30:47.

into The History Boys probably. One of the defining features of your

:30:48.:30:54.

work is that you invite empathy for people who if the kind of audience

:30:55.:30:58.

that comes to the theatre would encounter in real life they would

:30:59.:31:02.

run a mile from? And I would run a mile as well. Is writing in some way

:31:03.:31:09.

a means of encountering stuff that you would not encounter or you would

:31:10.:31:16.

avoid encountering in life? It is also a way of doing things that

:31:17.:31:22.

people wouldn't expect you to do either in writing or in life. I mean

:31:23.:31:30.

I think of things to say or to do and I think all the people won't

:31:31.:31:34.

want to hear that from me and then I think why not. Particularly as I

:31:35.:31:38.

have got older, that's much more the case. The wonderful Alan Bennett at

:31:39.:31:47.

80. You can see the full interview at 9.00 on BBC Four.

:31:48.:31:51.

Before we go, a quick plug, this August Newsnight will be heading to

:31:52.:31:55.

the Edinburgh Festival for a special programme exploring what Scottish

:31:56.:32:00.

independence would mean for the cultural future of the UK. And Scots

:32:01.:32:05.

near the referendum ballot box, the comedian Rory Brenner among others

:32:06.:32:14.

has called for levity. We have had a talent contest, Newsnight Referendum

:32:15.:32:18.

Review, part of the show in Edinburgh. Here is how you get

:32:19.:32:21.

involved. Newsnight is on the hunt for great

:32:22.:32:25.

performances that address the issue of Scottish independence and the

:32:26.:32:28.

future of the kingdom, anything knows as long as it is entertaining

:32:29.:32:34.

and thought provoking, stand-up, sketches, mini-musicals, songs,

:32:35.:32:39.

poetry or dance, if you are getting inspiration from the yes-no debate

:32:40.:32:43.

we want to hear from you. The acts will perform live before a judging

:32:44.:32:48.

panel and studio audience at the Newsnight Edinburgh Fringe Special

:32:49.:32:53.

on Tuesday the 21st August. Only one will be declared winner of the

:32:54.:32:58.

Newsnight Review, upload a 60 second sample of your material at the BBC

:32:59.:33:06.

website. The deadline is Sunday 26th July, don't wait until the closing

:33:07.:33:08.

date. Get to it. Tomorrow's front pages,

:33:09.:33:12.

just the Telegraph and Mail. That is almost it for this week

:33:13.:33:31.

which marks the passing of a broadcast legend from his regular

:33:32.:33:40.

BBC spot. Alan Hansen will have his last Match of the Day. We will look

:33:41.:33:45.

at the subtle way he dealt with Jimmy Hill. All I'm saying is if he

:33:46.:33:52.

had allowed McManemen his way in the end he would have opened up the way

:33:53.:34:03.

for Fowler. Jimmy be quiet will you. Also he could

:34:04.:34:05.

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