05/06/2014 Newsnight


05/06/2014

Emily Maitlis with news of D-Day and Putin, European interest rates, Ebola in Africa and the Newark by-election. Plus, Terry Gilliam directs opera and Mark Millar on superheroes.


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Transcript


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Allied leaders prepare to commemorate the D-Day landings, but

:00:00.:00:11.

they don't all feel like allies any more. Vladimir Putin's policies have

:00:12.:00:16.

drawn more comparisons with 1938 than 1944. We're at the spot that

:00:17.:00:21.

seven decades ago was code named Gold Beach. This was the scene of

:00:22.:00:27.

the biggest amphibious assault in history. Tonight they are

:00:28.:00:29.

celebrating and tomorrow the world leaders will descend on this place.

:00:30.:00:33.

How are more than 700 American troops killed while rehearsing for

:00:34.:00:38.

the operation. Folk memory, the only public record of the horror. When

:00:39.:00:44.

dawn broke in the beach here, as far as you could see, he said, there was

:00:45.:00:51.

dead bodies. We're in Newark as the poles close in the by-election,

:00:52.:00:55.

could UKIP be celebrating again tomorrow, or will the aggressive

:00:56.:01:01.

Tory charm offensive pay off. Terry Gilliam is let loose on an opera.

:01:02.:01:06.

What could they have been thinking. I wanted to put on a good show, this

:01:07.:01:10.

involves a lot of arguments with people who are purests. And I'm not

:01:11.:01:18.

interested in that. You are afraid, I remember. And how should a super

:01:19.:01:24.

hero behave in the dark days of 2014? We will ask one of the world's

:01:25.:01:29.

most successful comic writers, Mark Miller.

:01:30.:01:40.

Good evening, the irony can't be lost on the leaders of the G 7

:01:41.:01:49.

today, the 20th ary of -- anniversary of D-Day, to celebrate

:01:50.:01:53.

the greatest victory the world has ever known, and to have in your

:01:54.:01:57.

midst, Vladimir Putin, the politicians they can't stop. On the

:01:58.:02:01.

shores of Brussels and Paris, it promises to be a mix of the curious

:02:02.:02:06.

mix of the past and present, the sharp relief of landings with the G

:02:07.:02:11.

7 summit hoping this time around to shape world events by diplomacy.

:02:12.:02:19.

Tonight the mood here on the seafront in Normandy could only be

:02:20.:02:23.

described as festive. There was a big firework display that just

:02:24.:02:28.

finished. People are sampling the cider and calvados to get into the

:02:29.:02:34.

spirit of the town. Thoughs of people in tents, in mobile homes, a

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sort of historical Glastonbury. Tomorrow will be more formal. A

:02:43.:02:46.

religious service in the Cathedral, services of remembrance too in war

:02:47.:02:51.

cemetaries, attended by President Obama, the Queen, Angela Merkel,

:02:52.:02:59.

Vladimir Putin and of course President Hollande. There are big

:03:00.:03:04.

political differences between those people at the moment, that is what

:03:05.:03:09.

they have been doing today, trying to reconcile the big things that

:03:10.:03:13.

divide them. If British and French troops are to parade together, as

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they will tomorrow, there are matters of protocol to be dealt

:03:21.:03:27.

with. And just as this business was being resolved, a diplomatic

:03:28.:03:32.

manoeuvre of far greater complexity was unfolding. For this day started

:03:33.:03:38.

with an event intended to punish Russia and ended with another, where

:03:39.:03:43.

the old war time allies will remember what great friends they

:03:44.:03:49.

were back in 1944. So the G7 meeting this morning in Brussels shut Russia

:03:50.:03:54.

out and threatened further sanctions if Russia doesn't do more to defuse

:03:55.:04:02.

the congoing crisis in Ukraine. -- the on going crisis in the Ukraine.

:04:03.:04:10.

We will see what Mr Putnam does -- Putin does over the next few weeks.

:04:11.:04:15.

If he remains on the course we will indicate the actions we are prepared

:04:16.:04:18.

to take. A little later the Queen arrived in Paris at the start of a

:04:19.:04:23.

visit to commemorate D-Day, she was ahead of her host, President

:04:24.:04:27.

Hollande who was rushing back from Brussels to metre. With Barack Obama

:04:28.:04:30.

and David Cameron travelling in the same direction. The situation today

:04:31.:04:33.

is not acceptable and it needs to change. We need the Russians to

:04:34.:04:38.

properly recognise and work with this new President. We need

:04:39.:04:43.

deescalation, we need to stop arms and people crossing the border, we

:04:44.:04:47.

need action on these fronts. If that happens there is a diplomatic path

:04:48.:04:52.

that is open. Russia had been hoping to use this moment to turn the page

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on Ukraine, but President Obama was having none of it. He dined with Mr

:04:58.:05:04.

Hollande, but refused to meet Vladimir Putin, keeping that at

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Foreign Minister level. When President Putin flew into Paris a

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couple of hours later, his host endured a second working dinner of

:05:16.:05:18.

the evening. The diplomats hope now that by tomorrow morning the leaders

:05:19.:05:21.

will have recovered their appetite for celebrating a war time alliance,

:05:22.:05:27.

complete with a Russian leader who today was shunned by the US at

:05:28.:05:34.

least. There was one more awkward political moment today when

:05:35.:05:38.

President Obama in Brussels really set his face against Scotland

:05:39.:05:42.

leaving the union. He made it quite clear that he didn't think that

:05:43.:05:45.

would be a good thing. The White House and Downing Street we

:05:46.:05:49.

understand felt they should get all of this politics out of the way

:05:50.:05:53.

today and just focus on remembrance tomorrow. So that these issues would

:05:54.:05:59.

not intrude, and obviously the key focus here at this are the veterans

:06:00.:06:05.

of what happened 70 years ago. Even among the few hundred who are still

:06:06.:06:08.

with us and who have come, the number who were actually on the

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beaches, on D-Day, on the 6th of June is very, very small. And

:06:12.:06:16.

earlier today I was lucky to meet such a man, Les Reeves, in one of

:06:17.:06:26.

the first tanks of the landing craft and told me what it felt like as he

:06:27.:06:32.

hit the beach. Everybody was scared, I mean those who said they weren't

:06:33.:06:36.

scared were fools or liars basically. When we came off the

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landing craft all you could see was water wasn't it! You know, once you

:06:43.:06:51.

had cleared the water and there was that much going on, there was stuff

:06:52.:06:56.

hitting the tank, and we got the headphones on and there was this

:06:57.:07:00.

happening and that happening. You didn't have time to be scared, it

:07:01.:07:08.

had gone. Of course what Folaued was followed was a tough campaign for

:07:09.:07:16.

weeks, how much of a toll did it take on your squadron. Well, I don't

:07:17.:07:33.

know really, you know... . Yeah... . What is your attitude now to the

:07:34.:07:50.

Germans? The ordinary German army, they were doing the same job as us,

:07:51.:07:55.

but the SS and others they were animals. Some people say this

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generation is softer or they couldn't have stood the suffering

:08:00.:08:04.

that you and your comrades with stood, is there any truth in that? I

:08:05.:08:11.

don't think so. We were a generation where our fathers were in the first

:08:12.:08:18.

war. When the call came we were there, weren't we. And I think

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strongly that the generation of today would do exactly the same if

:08:24.:08:29.

necessary and if needed. The thing is this, events like this must

:08:30.:08:37.

continue, not only for the memory of those who didn't return to see the

:08:38.:08:42.

white cliffs, but also for them to learn a lesson that war is not a

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very good thing. Well the events of the landing are well trod, less well

:08:53.:08:58.

known perhaps is the military disaster that preceded it and

:08:59.:09:02.

threatened the very success of the entire allied invasion. A dress

:09:03.:09:05.

rehearsal for D-Day involving tens of thousands of American troops went

:09:06.:09:10.

badly wrong. More than 700 died in just one day when German torpedo

:09:11.:09:14.

boats spotted landing craft ready to mount a practice assault in a beach

:09:15.:09:20.

in Devon. Yet the real story of what happened that day was only uncovered

:09:21.:09:26.

decades later by an eccentric beach comber from Grimsby.

:09:27.:09:34.

In the ball of flame on the edges you could see black specks, jeeps,

:09:35.:09:40.

men, parts of the ship, it was awful. The waters were burning and

:09:41.:09:46.

it looked like the sea was on fire. Then there was another explosion,

:09:47.:09:51.

another ship was torpedoed. Six weeks before D-Day and just off the

:09:52.:09:57.

Devon coast a secret training exercise ends in disaster. There

:09:58.:10:05.

were bodies everywhere, some in groups burned by oil, and there was

:10:06.:10:12.

just a scene out of hell. Mani was one of 30,000 US troops sent to

:10:13.:10:16.

south-west England to prepare for the biggest sea assault in history.

:10:17.:10:21.

He survived the attack and felt the sacrifice of his countrymen was

:10:22.:10:25.

ultimately worthwhile. Though his family say it deeply affected him.

:10:26.:10:34.

When dawn broke in the beach here at Slapton, as far as you could see, he

:10:35.:10:38.

made, there were dead bodies, but because no-one had told the soldiers

:10:39.:10:46.

how to put their life vests on they put it round their waists instead of

:10:47.:10:52.

over their chests, because of the weight of the back pack and

:10:53.:10:56.

munitions and stuff, when they went into the water it pushed them

:10:57.:10:59.

forward, most of the guys drowned. He was extremely scarred by the

:11:00.:11:06.

whole exercise. By the experience, he was also very private and very

:11:07.:11:12.

secretive about what happened until much later in his life. By the

:11:13.:11:18.

spring of 1944 thousands of American servicemen, like Manny were waiting

:11:19.:11:23.

on the south coast ready for D-Day. A stretch of the Devon shoreline was

:11:24.:11:30.

chosen for the dress rehearsal, code named Exercise Tiger, the author

:11:31.:11:34.

Michael Morpergo has written about the time. The city is the scene for

:11:35.:11:41.

one of his best known novels. The Americans came here in 1943, very

:11:42.:11:48.

deliberately choosing this beach, because the beach they were going to

:11:49.:11:55.

land on across there in Normandy, Utah Beach, has great similarities

:11:56.:11:59.

with this. What they wanted to do was to practice their landings,

:12:00.:12:06.

which would be happening on Slapton Sands. In order to do that they had

:12:07.:12:11.

to evacuate huge amounts of land, 30,000 acres had to be evacuated.

:12:12.:12:16.

Six villages, all the people and animals had to be moved away.

:12:17.:12:21.

Evacuation in the path of war has come to the peaceful south-west of

:12:22.:12:29.

England. In 1943 this man was one of 3,000 told to leave their homes for

:12:30.:12:36.

nearly a year. Now 83 she still lives in the same house. We weren't

:12:37.:12:41.

told why we had to move out, we were told the land was wanted. We had to

:12:42.:12:48.

get out within six weeks. So you know, it was quite an ordeal for the

:12:49.:12:56.

parents. People realised that it was for a special reason that they had

:12:57.:13:00.

to move out. But they didn't know why. As the residents moved out, so

:13:01.:13:06.

the military moved in. A series of training exercises through April

:13:07.:13:11.

1944 culminated in a large scale assault on Slapton Sands itself. The

:13:12.:13:17.

whole idea is they were going to practice and make it as, I suppose,

:13:18.:13:23.

as like a real battle as possible. With live fire and all the rest of

:13:24.:13:27.

it. Shells would be coming over the heads of ships out there, the men

:13:28.:13:31.

would be landing on the beaches, the shells would be landing in the

:13:32.:13:34.

countryside and the villages all around, and then come June 1944 they

:13:35.:13:42.

went over. But inbetween in April there was this terrible tragedy

:13:43.:13:49.

during Exercise Tiger. As thousands of troops sailed around the bay, a

:13:50.:13:54.

destroyer meant to provide cover was ordered away. The landing ships was

:13:55.:14:00.

easy targets for German S-boats hunting in the channel.

:14:01.:14:04.

50 servicemen died in the sea that day. US generals ordered a complete

:14:05.:14:09.

news blackout. What has really happened here on the beach wouldn't

:14:10.:14:14.

reach the public until the mid-1980s, 40 years after the D-Day

:14:15.:14:18.

landings. The full story only came to light because of the remarkable

:14:19.:14:23.

work of one retired police officer from Grimsby. Ken Small was

:14:24.:14:28.

something of an eccentric a beach comber who kept asking questions

:14:29.:14:33.

about the schrapnal, belts and bullets he was picking up. Then a

:14:34.:14:37.

fisherman told him about a mysterious object three-quarters of

:14:38.:14:42.

a mile out to sea. After the tank had been recovered naturally the

:14:43.:14:47.

coverage that got internationally that did lead to people starting to

:14:48.:14:52.

make contact. It became important to my dad, he wanted to create

:14:53.:15:00.

something, a memorial to those who lost their lives. Slowly he started

:15:01.:15:04.

piecing the story together, getting hold of unclassified documents,

:15:05.:15:09.

spending hours on the phone to survivors, by 1988 he had the ear of

:15:10.:15:14.

the President. It is a letter of thanks from Ronald Regan for all

:15:15.:15:19.

that my dad did. "Your concern for our servicemen who made the supreme

:15:20.:15:24.

sacrifice exsemplifies the strong bonds of friendship and admiration

:15:25.:15:28.

that unite the people of our two countries." Historians agree there

:15:29.:15:33.

was no deliberate military cover-up in this case, the official news

:15:34.:15:36.

blackout was lifted a couple of months after D-Day. By then nobody

:15:37.:15:40.

wanted to read about a training disaster and the story of Exercise

:15:41.:15:45.

Tiger, simply faded away. Right from the people from these farms and

:15:46.:15:49.

villages here, who gave up their homes and who helped this to happen,

:15:50.:15:52.

who understood it and went through what they went through, to the

:15:53.:15:57.

American soldiers who came over here from goodness knows where to live on

:15:58.:16:03.

a, in a Devon landscape for a bit and exercise here, and then go over

:16:04.:16:07.

to France, and many of them died both here in this exercise and in

:16:08.:16:18.

France. Was what worth it? Of course it was. The most necessary of all

:16:19.:16:24.

wars. The entire free world was at stake, his friends from New York,

:16:25.:16:28.

other members of the family, his brother, they all felt they had to

:16:29.:16:39.

go and fight to save the world. Despite the lost of life something

:16:40.:16:42.

concrete was achieved by the operation, allied planners

:16:43.:16:49.

understood the danger from fast torpedo boats, plans were changed

:16:50.:16:53.

and survival training given, all this was put into practice on D-Day

:16:54.:17:01.

itself in Normandy. Harry Leslie Smith is a Second World

:17:02.:17:06.

War veteran, and author of Harry's Last Stand, with us tonight, joined

:17:07.:17:13.

by a Russian historian at the London School of Economics and a German

:17:14.:17:17.

historian at Queen Mary in London. A warm welcome to you all, thank you

:17:18.:17:21.

for coming in. Harry I want to start with some of your thoughts,

:17:22.:17:24.

particularly the ones you have expressed recently in the book about

:17:25.:17:29.

sacrifice b whether you are no longer convinced that the sacrifice

:17:30.:17:38.

your generation made was worth it? I think I my thoughts on that is the

:17:39.:17:47.

fact that we fought so hard to win the war and in the election which we

:17:48.:17:57.

were lucky to be involved in we all voted for liberal and when Attlee

:17:58.:18:08.

took over we saw a new face from conservatism which gave us more hope

:18:09.:18:16.

for a better life. Unfortunately it lasted for a long time, they did

:18:17.:18:25.

well, they built new homes, they made universities for our young

:18:26.:18:32.

people to go and educate themselves which didn't exist for the poor in

:18:33.:18:43.

the old days. And like I said, the rationing was still on when we were

:18:44.:18:49.

demobed, and it went on for a good year-and-a-half afterwards, which

:18:50.:18:53.

meant that you know you got very simple rations for food it was still

:18:54.:19:01.

a bleak life in the early days. But we could see change coming. And it

:19:02.:19:11.

was really an uplifting time, because in those days ordinary

:19:12.:19:18.

people like us we suffered misery of hunger and disease. There was no

:19:19.:19:25.

health service. I lost a sister actually to TB. I remember as a kid

:19:26.:19:38.

she was lying there helpless. My mother was so distraught by the

:19:39.:19:56.

whole thing. She actually died in a work house. Does it feel a very

:19:57.:20:04.

different place to you where we are today, the generation that you look

:20:05.:20:13.

at today? It is but there is an undercurrent involved in what we

:20:14.:20:16.

see, which we seem to be ignoring. There is a massive amount of people

:20:17.:20:24.

who are living almost pay day to pay day and on the brink of disaster.

:20:25.:20:29.

Let me bring in our historians, because for 60 years neither the

:20:30.:20:34.

Russians nor the Germans have been part of these D-Day celebrations.

:20:35.:20:39.

What does their presence this year tell us or signify? It might mean

:20:40.:20:45.

that Germans are simply more confident about being equal

:20:46.:20:50.

partners, but also that D-Day is no longer only a symbol of defeat. It

:20:51.:20:55.

is also a symbol of liberation. Germans have never really remembered

:20:56.:21:00.

D-Day as one of their major events, they would rather remember VE Day

:21:01.:21:07.

the day of allied victory. The main debates about VE Day were whether it

:21:08.:21:13.

was a day of defeat or rather a day of liberation. In 1985 that was

:21:14.:21:20.

still very controversial when the German federal President held a

:21:21.:21:26.

speech and said we should look at these events as events of liberation

:21:27.:21:33.

because that connects us with the west. Angela Merkel today has been

:21:34.:21:36.

praising the sacrifice and the bravery. Do you think that is

:21:37.:21:40.

reflected at home in Germany? I don't actually think that in German

:21:41.:21:47.

popular culture and in the German mind D-Day is, has anything to do

:21:48.:21:52.

with heroism or was a positive memory of the war. D-Day was one of

:21:53.:21:59.

many battles which signified defeat. It was actually rather Stalin

:22:00.:22:03.

grabbed, the defeat at the eastern front, the bombings of the German

:22:04.:22:08.

cities that really impacted Germans at the home front and also on the

:22:09.:22:18.

German army. I would say that D-Day it is not that it is insignificant,

:22:19.:22:26.

it is rather Stalingrad rather than D-Day. Does that chime with you,

:22:27.:22:29.

does it have a significance for Russians? D-Day had a huge

:22:30.:22:33.

psychological significance, it was downplayed by the Soviet propaganda

:22:34.:22:39.

in 1944, because by that time of course Stalin was preparing

:22:40.:22:44.

phenomenally big offensives against the German army and Belarusia and

:22:45.:22:53.

Ukraine and then entering Europe. But that was the end of a third year

:22:54.:22:58.

of incredibly tough fighting when the Soviets had already lost

:22:59.:23:05.

millions. Jews died in millions, so by that time it was immensely

:23:06.:23:09.

important for people to know when this war is going to end. So D-Day

:23:10.:23:16.

came at this amazing moment and finally the second front

:23:17.:23:22.

materialised. The second front which for two years the Soviet propaganda

:23:23.:23:26.

promised the Soviet people that this front would appear, and their burden

:23:27.:23:32.

would be lightened by the Allies. That was immensely important as a

:23:33.:23:39.

moment when millions of people said Hallelujah, finally. When you say

:23:40.:23:44.

"finally", is there a sense it could have come earlier? We should look at

:23:45.:23:48.

the sense of how the news was presented. Stalin never recognised

:23:49.:23:53.

the operations in Africa, Sicily and Italy as the proper second front. He

:23:54.:23:58.

used it actually to prepare the Soviets, hey, we have to rely on

:23:59.:24:03.

ourselves, the Allies are unreliable. They are not one of us,

:24:04.:24:06.

they are different, they are capitalists. So still despite this,

:24:07.:24:13.

despite this propaganda, despite this, common people in the trenches,

:24:14.:24:18.

in the rear working, toiling day and night, they heaved a huge sigh of

:24:19.:24:23.

relieve. It is often said we look at history through the prism of where

:24:24.:24:26.

we are today. When you see the leaders and look at the allies and

:24:27.:24:30.

the Allies within the Allies, as it were, it is a very stark picture

:24:31.:24:35.

isn't it. You see the kind of diplomacy they have to do with each

:24:36.:24:39.

other now? That's right, there has been a lot of discussion in Germany

:24:40.:24:45.

about whether Angela Merkel would sit next to Putin, whether she would

:24:46.:24:51.

talk to Obama, so I think there is a certain sense of, it is good that

:24:52.:24:55.

the Germans are there and taken seriously and no longer a pariah. As

:24:56.:25:00.

a historian this is quite a development from a few decades ago.

:25:01.:25:06.

Thank you very much indeed. The European Central Bank has taken

:25:07.:25:10.

drastic action, cut interest rates to record lose to ward off

:25:11.:25:15.

deflation. It has also placed negative lending rates on its

:25:16.:25:20.

overnight depositors, in order to tempt banks into lending more. The

:25:21.:25:24.

ECB President confirmed the rates would stay low for longer than

:25:25.:25:28.

previously foreseen, but it could take up to a year to be fully felt

:25:29.:25:33.

in the economy. Our economics correspondent is here. Talks through

:25:34.:25:38.

what they are doing and the negative what it implies, the rate? It was

:25:39.:25:44.

either interest rate were going up or down in the past. Now we are in a

:25:45.:25:49.

world of unconventional policy. What we had from the European Central

:25:50.:25:57.

Bank was a lot of unconventional policy. This isn't the rate at which

:25:58.:26:01.

they lend but what they pay on deposit. This is the rate if you are

:26:02.:26:05.

a bank in Europe and you are putting money at the ECB they will charge

:26:06.:26:09.

you to put that money there. Perhaps the most interesting thing they did

:26:10.:26:13.

though, potentially one of the most significant is a big scheme to boost

:26:14.:26:18.

lending in the eurozone. They will make up to 400 billions of euros of

:26:19.:26:24.

cheap funding available to commercial banks, you can go and get

:26:25.:26:28.

cheap funding and pass it on to the real economy.

:26:29.:26:30.

Why are they doing this, what has triggered this, a real fear of

:26:31.:26:35.

deflation or stagflation? That is the problem. This is a very

:26:36.:26:39.

conservative Central Bank, they have had to be pushed into doing this,

:26:40.:26:44.

growth and inemployment are awful. The real big issue is what is

:26:45.:26:48.

happening in inflation in the eurozone. Inflation in the eurozone,

:26:49.:26:53.

it is up at 2. 5% a few years ago, exactly what you would expect as

:26:54.:26:57.

normal. In the past year-and-a-half two years, inflations came all the

:26:58.:27:02.

way down to just 0. 5%. What people are scared about now is prices

:27:03.:27:05.

actually start to fall, inflation goes negative, we get deflation. I

:27:06.:27:09.

think to a lot of people the idea that stuff is getting cheaper

:27:10.:27:13.

probably sounds good, it is not number one on the list of economic

:27:14.:27:19.

problems. But most economists would tell you deflation is a serious

:27:20.:27:22.

problem for an economy. Profits go down, wages go down, you get into

:27:23.:27:26.

what people call a spiral of everything, there is no demand in

:27:27.:27:29.

the economy, it sucks the life out of it. If you are a really highly

:27:30.:27:32.

indebted economy, as in southern Europe, it is potentially lethal.

:27:33.:27:39.

Will it actually work? I guess that is the 64 billion euro question

:27:40.:27:45.

tonight! The market has been through three stage, stage number one this

:27:46.:27:50.

is great, stage number 2, it is not enough, and now we are settling it

:27:51.:27:54.

might be enough. It is often said you can't solve a problem by

:27:55.:27:58.

throwing money at it, low inflation, you can. Is the ECB going to throw

:27:59.:28:03.

enough money, do we have to wait for things to get worse before pushing

:28:04.:28:07.

them into acting. The latest figures on the ebowl

:28:08.:28:17.

ebola virus show 200 people have died in Ghana because of the

:28:18.:28:24.

disease. We go to Brussels and speak to our guest recently working as a

:28:25.:28:29.

co-ordinator in Guinea. What are the barriers when you look at the

:28:30.:28:36.

problem with this outbreak? The big barrier is that the population there

:28:37.:28:41.

has to be a willing participant in outbreak control. They need to work

:28:42.:28:45.

with the outbreak control agencies to help bring sick people into the

:28:46.:28:51.

treatment unit. And currently they are very, very scared and often

:28:52.:28:56.

running away, and this is causing difficulty with bringing people into

:28:57.:29:01.

a place where they can be cared for safely with the virus. The

:29:02.:29:04.

population is very mobile, while they are psyche they are moving

:29:05.:29:09.

about and this is -- sick they are moving about and it is causing

:29:10.:29:12.

secondary outbreaks across the country. And resources are inthis.

:29:13.:29:16.

There is a lot of talk and discussion about the local

:29:17.:29:20.

population being very mistrustful of the foreigners or aid workers there,

:29:21.:29:24.

they feel they are there for dark and different reasons? Yes, these

:29:25.:29:31.

are people who live in a remote area without a lot of outside disease

:29:32.:29:35.

control agencies coming on a regular basis. When they do in the setting

:29:36.:29:40.

of a scary outbreak, rumours start to pass around. I have heard that we

:29:41.:29:45.

are there to spread the disease, not to cure it. That we are there at the

:29:46.:29:50.

behest of drug companies seeking to make a profit off the outbreak. Even

:29:51.:29:55.

that we are three to harvest the organs of the deceased. When you

:29:56.:30:01.

have text messages sent about spreading these rumours or that you

:30:02.:30:07.

are there, we heard, harvest organs or whatever the ideas that they are

:30:08.:30:14.

having, how do you combat that? We do our best to let people know what

:30:15.:30:26.

we are trying to do. We also enlist survivors, people whom come into the

:30:27.:30:29.

centre and done well and let the community know what we are up to. We

:30:30.:30:35.

try to bring in community leaders. It works with some people but not a

:30:36.:30:42.

uniformly impressive effect. Tonight the curtain has come down on

:30:43.:30:50.

the first night of Cieline by the notoriously difficult French

:30:51.:30:53.

composer and has not been seen in London since another World Cup year,

:30:54.:30:58.

1966. The man who has risen to the challenge of making sense of

:30:59.:31:11.

Cieline. Is Terry Gilliam. He granted exclusive access through the

:31:12.:31:15.

rehearsals, I warn you there is some strong language. It may surprise you

:31:16.:31:26.

that Terry Gillian of Monty Python fame is directing an opera at the

:31:27.:31:32.

E Not just any opera, but one of the most difficult in the can non-.

:31:33.:31:43.

-- cannon. Cieline is notoriously tricky, at its premier in Paris in

:31:44.:31:53.

1888, the audience rioted. It has been down hill ever since. I want to

:31:54.:32:02.

put on a good show, this involves a lot of arguments with people who are

:32:03.:32:09.

purists. I'm not interested in that, people pay a lot of money to see

:32:10.:32:14.

something and I want to really give them something they will go and

:32:15.:32:18.

remember for a long time. And I don't want it just to be for opera

:32:19.:32:27.

lovers. In the world of opera, there seems to be a lot of museum-like

:32:28.:32:31.

thinking going on, and I really don't like that, because what worked

:32:32.:32:35.

in the 19th century, why should it work in the 21 century. Everything

:32:36.:32:45.

about this opera is inflated. It always bothers me because I don't

:32:46.:32:50.

like opera singing in that sense where it is all arms out. The opera

:32:51.:33:05.

is based on the autobiography of the Italian sculpture, Cieline, and the

:33:06.:33:10.

statue the Pope asked him to cast of a Greek God. Cieline was a notorious

:33:11.:33:28.

man. Terry Gilliam's kind of guy. This coy was full of hub Ritz --

:33:29.:33:35.

hubris, and has had statue, at this point in his career, it was a big

:33:36.:34:03.

mistake I made and will it ever workstake I made and will it

:34:04.:34:05.

We do have a carnival sequence where the world is turned upsidedown, and

:34:06.:34:13.

it involves a lot of abhorrent behaviour. I'm not sure if we have

:34:14.:34:18.

enough rehearsal time to really perfect this. We will see on the

:34:19.:34:23.

opening night. Laughter, what a stupid joke. The whole Roman

:34:24.:34:32.

carnival through to act I is some of the most rea veryious -- vivacious,

:34:33.:34:43.

cheeky music he has ever composed. The reason this piece is a very

:34:44.:34:47.

difficult piece is because he cared about the drama so much that he

:34:48.:34:52.

didn't care whatever. It's like sing a high C sharp for no reason. And

:34:53.:34:56.

people are like why, because he should be in ecstacy tonight. How

:34:57.:35:07.

high would that be, ahhhhhhhh, so it is a little high. We do have maiden

:35:08.:35:23.

aunts that may or may not be violated. Never too late, I always

:35:24.:35:30.

say. We have, yes, some very rude behaviour in the middle of carnival,

:35:31.:35:42.

because you should. There may be even some blasphemous behaviour from

:35:43.:35:49.

an anti-Pope who has to be there. That is what is interesting about

:35:50.:35:54.

the opera because he never knew when to stop, and Cieline the same thing.

:35:55.:35:59.

And on the third bit of the magnet that is me. Out of the three two are

:36:00.:36:12.

geniuses! I still want to surprise myself, I suppose. Because I find

:36:13.:36:18.

life becomes more and more repetitive and more predictable as

:36:19.:36:23.

you get older and you want to find something somewhere that nobody has

:36:24.:36:27.

been before. I wanted to be the explorer and the world is closing in

:36:28.:36:32.

so much it is becoming tiny. So let's go somewhere else, at least

:36:33.:36:42.

Folau the mad men. Dare I bring up the p-word? You said to the c-word,

:36:43.:36:52.

no and the p-word is nowhere at all. It is the biggest leap in work and

:36:53.:36:58.

career in my life. And everything I have done as a result has been as a

:36:59.:37:03.

result of Monty Python. I love the idea of going back and reliving it

:37:04.:37:08.

is something different from the fact that python is why I'm sitting here

:37:09.:37:13.

talking to you right now, I'm talking to you because of the python

:37:14.:37:18.

show. Who is the trickyist one? Graham, because he's dead, he can't

:37:19.:37:23.

complain. That is not fair. Maybe it is true, I don't know? He wasn't the

:37:24.:37:28.

tricky one, tricky is an odd one, I'm not sure exactly how you would

:37:29.:37:34.

define that with python. It was who was the moodiest, who was the least

:37:35.:37:39.

trustworthy, who was the most backstabbing, these are games that I

:37:40.:37:47.

will never mention to Newsnight! John wonderfully referred to me as

:37:48.:37:56.

the conscience of python, the Jimmeney Cricket of python. I

:37:57.:38:02.

thought it was the sweetest thing he said about me. What are they doing?

:38:03.:38:12.

Lock, Fan Tuti that is not our pop a, we should be here this afternoon,

:38:13.:38:23.

but they are putting that up. If you could develop superpowers tonight,

:38:24.:38:27.

what would you do, fight crime, save the city, rob a bank, kick back,

:38:28.:38:32.

enjoy it? One of the world's most successful comic book writers, Mark

:38:33.:38:40.

Miller, who has penned Superman and Spiderman and Kick Ass is thinking

:38:41.:38:55.

about how a super hero these days. How a super hero is behaving these

:38:56.:39:02.

days. It was the time when the super heros was defined. A time when the

:39:03.:39:06.

world was at war and the bad guys were the Nazis in the 1940s. As the

:39:07.:39:11.

world changed and the Cold War dragged on, new characters were

:39:12.:39:17.

needed to engage a more disenfranchised youth. There is a

:39:18.:39:22.

new enemy out there. The X-Men were born, focussing on a team of mutated

:39:23.:39:30.

humans. The comics delved deeply into the themes of racism and the

:39:31.:39:34.

politics of fear. More recently questions over America's influence

:39:35.:39:42.

and perceived fall billity have led to a divide. On the one side those

:39:43.:39:47.

like the Avengers and on the other a question about the society we

:39:48.:39:52.

inhabit. Mark Miller is one of the biggest stars writing comics right

:39:53.:39:57.

now. He straddles the world of escapism and gritty reality. Perhaps

:39:58.:40:04.

best known for creating stories like the Spiderman and the ultra violent

:40:05.:40:12.

Kick Ass, now a franchise. He goes further, focussing on Detroit, a

:40:13.:40:17.

city he believes has been left to rot by those with power. The heros

:40:18.:40:22.

are from the bottom of power, questioning the very notion of the

:40:23.:40:26.

American dream and how far you should help those around you. Can a

:40:27.:40:29.

comic book really change perceptions and force people to take action, or

:40:30.:40:34.

will it always be seen as a reactionary reflection of the world

:40:35.:40:40.

we live in? You saw Mark Miller briefly in the piece. He joins us

:40:41.:40:43.

from the Glasgow studio. Great to have you. I guess when we look at

:40:44.:40:49.

your super heros and they attract millions of fans. Why do you think

:40:50.:40:55.

there is an appetite for change? I think pop culture has to keep

:40:56.:41:01.

evolving. When I was a kid growing up I read simplistic comic books and

:41:02.:41:08.

as a teenager they became more sophisticated. Every ten or 20 years

:41:09.:41:14.

we have to reinvent ourselves. The mainstream audience has probably

:41:15.:41:18.

seen everything now it is time to try something different. Isn't the

:41:19.:41:23.

point about the super hero that they are mercifully black and white, they

:41:24.:41:26.

are on the side of law or on the side of evil, they allow people a

:41:27.:41:31.

very, if you like, relaxing ride into what they know will happen

:41:32.:41:35.

there? I know what you mean and it has certainly served that purpose.

:41:36.:41:40.

Even Superman was created by two Jewish kids in the depression back

:41:41.:41:45.

in the 1930s, we have always needed these heros, going back to the Greek

:41:46.:41:49.

myths. I feel slightly cupable, where we worried about got shall

:41:50.:41:58.

City we are forgetting -- Gotham City, we are forgetting about other

:41:59.:42:04.

things. I feel while all eyes are on superheroes it is time to try

:42:05.:42:08.

something more radical. Talks through the radical idea, you were

:42:09.:42:12.

affected by what you saw in Detroit, how do you convey that? I see both

:42:13.:42:17.

sides of America because I work in Hollywood and I work in publishing

:42:18.:42:22.

and in New York and I see the extravagant side of it I see 90% of

:42:23.:42:29.

the time. I book to the south and see places like Kentucky and

:42:30.:42:34.

Arkansas, and I visited a friend in Detroit, it is the America we don't

:42:35.:42:48.

see on television or in Comic, I thought about talking about the real

:42:49.:42:52.

thing. They are more grounded in reality, how do you know the guys

:42:53.:42:56.

from Detroit, who have come to the cinemas sitting there, eatingway

:42:57.:43:00.

popcorn, is the last thing they want to see on the screen? I don't know

:43:01.:43:08.

if there is an element of a that particular. -- catharticis I grew up

:43:09.:43:16.

where there was a deindustrialisation without a plan,

:43:17.:43:20.

similar to Detroit from the 50s onwards. I felt a connection with it

:43:21.:43:26.

in a strange way. I love the catharsis of superheroes, rather

:43:27.:43:32.

than letting Batman go out and fight for people every night. I wanted a

:43:33.:43:36.

thoughter to the little guy, and maybe if you can get superpowers you

:43:37.:43:40.

don't do the black and white thing and put food on the table for those

:43:41.:43:45.

who cannot pay their bills any more. Easier to change that on the screen

:43:46.:43:51.

but the page is flatter, I mean that in every sense? I have done the job

:43:52.:43:56.

since I was 19, I will do my best. We have a Detroit screenwriter who

:43:57.:44:04.

is doing the screenplay and the they are transforming it to a movie. We

:44:05.:44:08.

will try to keep it as close to home. You have sent this to Obama

:44:09.:44:13.

and other Congress men and women, what do you want to happen?

:44:14.:44:17.

Visibility is the thing. Not for my book, I mean visibility in terms of

:44:18.:44:25.

just making people not forget about Detroit. This has been going on

:44:26.:44:32.

since the 19 #50S, it has been America's embarrassment. Then it

:44:33.:44:38.

becomes a sexy spread in the Guardian and it is like room porn.

:44:39.:44:45.

It seems strange that the forth-largest city looks like

:44:46.:44:47.

something out of the Third World in places. I think visibility. Let's

:44:48.:44:53.

not talk about Gotham City, if everyone going to the cinema let's

:44:54.:44:59.

go and see superhero movies, let's slip this in, I want them to know

:45:00.:45:03.

about and the Power Rangers. You said you felt slightly culpable of

:45:04.:45:11.

the niceness, if you like of the superhero, not related to reality.

:45:12.:45:15.

If it doesn't work do you still return to the spider man or

:45:16.:45:19.

establishment figures that seem good. What does the violence? Do? It

:45:20.:45:31.

would be great if everything was the Avengers or a Woody Allen movie, I

:45:32.:45:40.

like writing things like Iron Man or Siderman. I love this gritty stuff.

:45:41.:45:45.

I left marvel four years ago and worked for them through the last

:45:46.:45:49.

decade, I left them to become them. My plan is to create franchises and

:45:50.:45:58.

I'm nine in. I want to do the 21st version it. When all the characters

:45:59.:46:01.

were created were talking about the world he was in and I'm trying to do

:46:02.:46:06.

the same. Thank you very much. Now late tonight in truth about 3.00am

:46:07.:46:11.

we find out whether UKIP, flushed with recent electoral success in the

:46:12.:46:16.

euros have managed to secure a parliamentary seat. The by-election

:46:17.:46:22.

of Newark came after Patrick Mercer stepped down and the Tories have

:46:23.:46:28.

done everything they can to save the party. There are reports they are

:46:29.:46:33.

busting young Tory activist -- bused in Tory activists with the promise

:46:34.:46:37.

of beer if anything else. We will see you if it has had any effect.

:46:38.:46:44.

What are you hearing from inside the hall, a high turnout? The

:46:45.:46:49.

expectation is there is a high turn out on the basis of the ballots they

:46:50.:46:57.

have brought in and checking at the moment. 45-50%. In the event result

:46:58.:47:03.

you get a lot of different opinions, although it is a safe Tory seat with

:47:04.:47:09.

a majority of 16,000, the Tories are insisting they are refusing to be

:47:10.:47:12.

optimistic or confident or anything like that. Their opponents are

:47:13.:47:18.

talking about will U cup overturn the majority, but by how much will

:47:19.:47:24.

they reduce it. Everything will demand th what happens to the

:47:25.:47:29.

crucial votes, 20,000 up for grabs. There is an awful lot of expectation

:47:30.:47:36.

and churn, some Labour and the Lib Dems voting UKIP to hit the

:47:37.:47:43.

Conservatives. Some voting story to keep UKIP out. There will be mixed

:47:44.:47:47.

switching of votes. What is your sense of what would found as a

:47:48.:47:51.

success for the Conservatives, how big does the majority have to be for

:47:52.:47:58.

them to rest easy? I think in these volatile and fluid political times

:47:59.:48:01.

they will take a win. They won't give me any kind of target when I

:48:02.:48:06.

ask them those questions. UKIP is saying anything less than 5,000

:48:07.:48:11.

shows that even when the Tories throw huge resources they have, they

:48:12.:48:25.

have not just thrown small things into the water they will now go for

:48:26.:48:34.

more. We will be back, thank you very much. That's all for tonight.

:48:35.:48:45.

A dry note on Friday, more in the way of low cloud. A few spots of

:48:46.:49:00.

rain from that. A few isolated showers drifting up from the west,

:49:01.:49:05.

west Wales in the direction of Northern Ireland in the

:49:06.:49:06.

Emily Maitlis looks at D-Day and Putin, negative interest rates in Europe, Ebola in West Africa and by-election day in Newark. Plus, Terry Gilliam directs opera and Mark Millar talks superheroes.


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