24/07/2014 Newsnight


24/07/2014

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis. Including the latest from Gaza, a death penalty debate and throwaway economies.


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The UN in Gaza accuses Israel of failing to let children evacuate

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this shelter before it was targeted. 15 people died when it was hit. We

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ask the Israeli Government if they knew civilians were still inside?

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We ask the leader of Hamas if they use women and children as shields?

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It took him two hours to die. Now America is debating the death

:00:27.:00:29.

penalty once again. You guys are blowing it all out of proportion

:00:30.:00:35.

about the drugs. This man conducted a horrifying murder. We will talk to

:00:36.:00:42.

a man who wants his own daughter's murderer to die.

:00:43.:00:45.

Stuff, we want it, we get it and we want the next thing we chuck it. We

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meet the designers looking to dispose of our throwaway habits.

:00:52.:00:57.

This is a brilliant women. A Commonwealth confidence boost as

:00:58.:01:01.

Scotland goes for gold on the first day.

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But could success at Glasgow's games spell "yes" in September.

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They fled the fighting near their homes in northern Gaza and came to

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school seeking shelter run by the UN, it was there they were killed

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with a direct hit, it appears tonight from an Israeli shell. 15

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women and children died in the attack, 200 others were injured. The

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school had been used as a safe haven for the past few days. Israel's

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sophisticated weaponry tends to be precise. How did a place of refuge

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come to be hit, and how does that change what has happened in the

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conflict. We will speak to the Israeli Government in a moment, and

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hear from the leader of Hamas too. First a look at what happened today.

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Blockaded by Israel and Egypt, and densely populated, hiding places

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from the shelling a are few and far between in Gaza.

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The United Nations-run school was intended to be one of them. Up to

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800 families were sheltering there when it was hit. 15 died reportedly,

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including two UN staff, hundreds more were injured. The local

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hospital struggled to cope. The multiple medical centres had to

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receive the wounded. Many people are scared. Their children, the young

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children and women. Israel says there was a four-hour window for

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evacuation between 10.00 and 2.00 and Hamas prevented civilians from

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leaving, and the building was shelled at two. 30. But a UN

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spokesman posted on Twitterer and said precise co-ordinates had been

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formally given to the Israeli army. He wrote a few weeks over the day

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that UNRWA tried to negotiate a window for civilians to leave and it

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was never granted. The UN has reiterated this statement. This was

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an emergency shelter. We had given the Israeli authorities the idea of

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the co-ordinates of this school on 12 separate occasions, most recently

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ten. 56 this morning, they were fully aware it was a shelter. We

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knew the situation in the area was deteriorating from a security

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standpoint. So over the course of the day we tried to co-ordinate a

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period, a window during which we could withdraw our staff and any

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displace who had chose to go to a safer location would leave. We never

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confirmed that window or time fared. The IDF is now investigating whether

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the fatal shell was errant Israeli fire in response to a local Hamas

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attack, and accused Hamas of firing rockets in the nearby area at the

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same time. Israel also claims it has been warning civilians to leave the

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area for days, because of intelligence that Hamas was

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illegally exploiting it to store weaponry. What is clear that the

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Palestinian death toll today climbed to 50, attempts at a truce appear

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more distant than ever. I spoke to the Israeli Government

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spokesman before coming on air. This is a tragedy, you see pictures like

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this and you can't help but be moved. Israel does not want to see

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any civilian casualties in our operation, not one. And of course

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these deaths are indeed tragic. It is not yet clear to us exactly what

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happened in this location. There are a number of different COMPLASHGS but

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we will get to the bottom of it. But you accept Israel could have been

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responsible for these deaths? Ut It could have been Israeli fire,

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there were rockets landing in the area from Hamas, we can't exclude

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the possibility it was Hamas fire, but it could have been our fire. Our

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forces were receiving fire from that area, from the immediate vicinity of

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the hospital, it is possible if our forces returned fire to that it

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could have been our fire as well. But we have to investigate exactly

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what happened. You had the precise co-ordinates of that shelter, a UN

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spokesman tonight has said over the course of the day the UN tried to

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co-ordinate a window with the Israeli army for civilians to leave.

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It was never granted. Do you accept that? No, I do not. We accepted

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there would be a humanitarian corridor to allow people to leave

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between 10.00 and 2.00 in the afternoon, we accepted that. Why

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didn't the army get that right? Our information is actually the Hamas

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terrorists acted to prevent people leaving. Which actually is

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consistent with a consistent pattern of behaviour that we have seen in

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other places. We have requested people to leave because there is

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going to be a combat zone, we don't want innocent civilians and Hamas

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has asked them to stay. Did you know the building had not been evacuated?

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At the time I don't know exactly we knew, it was a difficult combat

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situation when our people were receiving for fire. We had been

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calling for three days for civilians to vacate that facility, because it

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was being abused by terrorists who were shooting from that vicinity on

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our people. Let's be clear the UN... Did you find out if there was

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children still in that building before you fired? We're not clear it

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is our fire, you are jumping ahead of what the reality is, let's wait

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and see. You knew in the morning to evacuate the building, you issued

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the warning because you were going to fire on the buildings, did you

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check it had been evacuated? Let's be clear, I didn't know what

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happened and neither do you, one has to be more judicious before making

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that sort I have a sum. Can I -- assumption. Can I say the following,

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there are two example, not that Israel says so, there are two

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examples that Hamas is storing munitions for their war machine to

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fire rockets into Israel. The UN Secretary-General himself released a

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statement, and I can quote, he said specifically those doing so are

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endangering the lives of innocent civilians. If Hamas is turning UN

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schools into area where it conducts its terror war machine against

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Israel the UN Secretary-General said the primary responsibility rests

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with those terrorists. We don't want to see any fighting around UN

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facilities, unfortunately the terrorists have forced that fight

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upon us. The UN told us it tried to co-ordinate a window with the

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Israeli army for civilians to leave and that was never granted. Now

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either the Israeli army is not speaking to the Government, or else

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you are calling him a liar, which is it? Well first of all, let's be fair

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in a combat situation, reality is very difficult. Anyone in an army

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can tell you that and anyone who has seen combat can tell you that. My

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information is Israel agreed to a four-hour period for a humanitarian

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corridor, and that was disrupted by the Hamas terrorists themselves who

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didn't want to let the terrorists leave. And that is a consistent

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pattern. You knew there were children in that building? That is a

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consistent pattern of behaviour by the terrorists, who deliberately

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want to leave civilians to protect their military machine. You knew

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there were children inside that building? I don't know that and you

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don't know that, I'm sorry that is not correct. You knew it was being

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used as a shelter by people fleeing the fighting in northern Gaza, you

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knew there were women and children who had come there to seek shelte We

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had been asking people to leave. You knew they hadn't been able to leave

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that building? Once again you are making presumptions, based on

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information that you have or have not, or what you are suggesting that

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information you have, we don't know that for a fact. But you said you

:09:05.:09:08.

were going to hit it, you hit it, you killed them, you knew there were

:09:09.:09:12.

children in that building? Sorry, how do you know, the UN itself

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reported that there was Hamas rocket fire falling in the area, how do you

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know it was Israel. I'm not excluding the possibility, but it is

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a difficult combat situation, and you have all the answers. If after

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the fog of war has passed this does turn out to be the fault of Israel,

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will you pause, will you reset your rules of engagment tonight? Our

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rules of engagment are very clear, one does not target civilian, one

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does not target civilian infrastructure, that is clear and we

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hold ourselves to high standards. That is not working, if it is not

:09:51.:09:55.

designed to hurt civilian, your strategy is manifestly not working?

:09:56.:09:59.

We are trying to be as surgical as humanely possible in a very

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difficult combat environment. But I ask you, if you say we cannot return

:10:03.:10:07.

fire, that is forbidden for Israel to return fire because Hamas has

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adopted these tactic, you are saying Israel has no right to defend itself

:10:12.:10:15.

in the case of thousands of rockets fired at our people. We are trying

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to be as surgical as is humanely possible in that difficult combat

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situation, but don't deny country the right to defend itself from the

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terrorists who are shooting rockets. You have a very effective defence

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system, it is called the Iron Dome, it stops you for the most part being

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hit, they don't and they are paying the price with their dead children?

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No Hamas is responsible for the reality casualties and the

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Palestinian casualties. They said no to a cease-fire a week ago, a

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cease-fire proposed by Egypt and supported by the UN and the Arab

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League. Why is the conflict persitsing because Hamas refuses to

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accept an Arab League cease-fire proposal. Thank you very much. A

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little earlier we caught up with the leader of Hamas to ask him whether

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his organisation uses civilians as human shields, here is his exclusive

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interview. What would it take for Hamas to sign

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on to a cease-fire now? TRANSLATION: We want a cease-fire as soon as

:11:20.:11:23.

possible, that's parallel with lifting the siege of Gaza. This is

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the demand of the Gaza people, I call on the UN, Ban Ki-Moon, the UK

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and the US to go to the people of Gaza and ask them what they want. I

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am prepared to accept 100% the consensus of our people in Gaza.

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What the Americans seem to be working on is a two-stage deal,

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where there will be a truce were the guns the rockets will stop firing

:11:47.:11:51.

and then there will be a serious negotiation about how to boost the

:11:52.:11:56.

Gaza economy, how to ease the blockade on Gaza and to give the

:11:57.:12:00.

people of Gaza a better life. Are you prepared to accept a two-stage

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solution to this? TRANSLATION: Regardless of the

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mechanism, what is important to me is that there should be a genuine

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guarantee to lift the siege on Gaza. These promises have been made in the

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past but nothing was done. People cannot go for medical treatment or

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to work. Why are the people of Gaza being punished for the slow death in

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the world's biggest prison. This is a crime. We want to halt in the

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aggression and an end of the siege. We accept clear and precise articles

:12:30.:12:32.

that the international community will commit to. We are eager that

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the bloodshed should end in Gaza today. Talk of resistance, how can

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any idea of resistance justify putting rockets in a school

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building? TRANSLATION: Frankly this is a lie.

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Let Israel show where are the rocket launchers in Gaza. This is not

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something that has come from Israel, this is the UN relief and works

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agency which has said that up to 20 rockets were deposited in a school

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building inside Gaza, they are furious. The secretary-general of

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the United Nations has expressed his outrage, he said those responsible

:13:16.:13:19.

are turning schools into potential military targets and endangering the

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lives of innocent children? TRANSLATION: This is not true.

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Rocket launchers in Gaza belong to the resistance, they are hidden

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underground and Israel is unable to reach them. This is why it pretends

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that they are in civilian as so Israel is hitting hospital, mosques

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and buildings. The world is sitting idle, it is hypocritical towards

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Israel but blames the victim. Hamas stands accused of deliberately

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endangering the lives of Palestinian civilians, the Israeli Government

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has said you are using Palestinians, men, women and children as human

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shields? TRANSLATION: This is a lie, Hamas is defending itself and

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sacrificing its leadership for the sake of its people. The one who is

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responsible for killing Palestinians is Israel, using F-16s, artillery

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and all US and western weapons. Hamas and any resistance movements

:14:20.:14:23.

when it defend against the occupier is actually defending its people. We

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are doing what other people are doing when they are subject to

:14:27.:14:30.

occupation and oppression. But telling people to stay in their

:14:31.:14:36.

homes when it is clear that Israelis intend an attack is in a way

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condemning them to death? TRANSLATION: This is wrong

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information, Hamas does not give orders to people to stay inside

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their homes. Hamas encourages people to stand fast and let the

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Palestinians show their stead fastness. This is the will of the

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people. Go to Gaza and see the people in hospitals and see the

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areas destroyed. These people were determined to preserve their land.

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You should not put the blame on the victims. The blame should go to the

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Israeli that has committed this massacre. We have 700 Palestinians

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killed, most of them are civilians. Where as Hamas is focussing on

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killing Israeli soldiers who came to Gaza to attack Palestinians. This is

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the ethical difference between the Palestinian resistance and the

:15:24.:15:30.

Israeli aggression. Let me talk about Hamas's determination, it

:15:31.:15:35.

seems, to continue with the rocket attacks into Israel. This is

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statement issued by the outgoing President of Israel, Shimon Peres,

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he said no state in the world would be prepared to accept rockets fired

:15:50.:15:53.

at its mothers and children, or terrorists emerging from tunnels to

:15:54.:15:56.

kill innocent people. Do you understand why the Israelis are so

:15:57.:16:03.

utterly determined to end this threat to their civilian population?

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TRANSLATION: Is there a state in the world that accepts an occupier and

:16:12.:16:15.

enemy and usurper to come and occupy their land. Who has occupied

:16:16.:16:21.

Palestinian, is it not the Palestine movement and Israel. Doesn't

:16:22.:16:23.

international law state that the West Bank is an occupied land. What

:16:24.:16:27.

has the international community done, the crisis is the problem that

:16:28.:16:32.

the Palestinians are suffering from is the occupation, as Palestinians

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we accept the international law. But it should be applied to us and the

:16:36.:16:40.

Israelis. Israel is occupying, it is building settlements, Israel is the

:16:41.:16:44.

one w kills, it is making people homeless. Is not the truth that

:16:45.:16:49.

Hamas in many ways is weaker now than it has been for a very long

:16:50.:16:54.

time. You have lost key allies, I'm thinking of the Muslim Brotherhood

:16:55.:16:57.

in Egypt, I'm thinking of your allies in Iran no longer close to

:16:58.:17:01.

you, you are in desperate financial trouble. You can't even afford to

:17:02.:17:07.

pay the salaries of public sector inside Gaza?

:17:08.:17:14.

TRANSLATION: Hamas will not surrender, yes Hamas is going

:17:15.:17:17.

through a difficult time. This could be a wrong miscalculation by

:17:18.:17:21.

Netenyahu, encouraged by sides here and there, that Hamas is weakened

:17:22.:17:25.

and the Gaza people are weakened and exhausted through the siege. He

:17:26.:17:28.

thought that Hamas would be an easy prey, and then he was surprised that

:17:29.:17:34.

the people of Gaza and Hamas are stronger. Difficult circumstances

:17:35.:17:37.

will not break us. Hamas does not fight because it has allies, it

:17:38.:17:46.

fights because it has a just cause. Recession, what recession? The UK is

:17:47.:17:50.

now set to grow faster than any other major economy this year,

:17:51.:17:54.

according to the latest IMF forecast, which even suggests the

:17:55.:17:58.

country has surpassed its previous peak. In terms of output we are back

:17:59.:18:07.

to pre-2008 crash levels. But the financial crisis has radically

:18:08.:18:12.

reshaped the way people are working and who they are working for. We

:18:13.:18:16.

have this report. # A little bit independent

:18:17.:18:20.

# In your walk # A little bit independent

:18:21.:18:25.

# In your talk Figures out tomorrow shows the

:18:26.:18:27.

economy returning to pre-recession peak. Employment was already higher

:18:28.:18:32.

than when the recession began six years ago. More people are choose to

:18:33.:18:36.

go stand on their own two feet and work for themselves. Fewer people

:18:37.:18:40.

are working for the state. This Bristol cafe is owned and run by a

:18:41.:18:49.

former teacher. Eight months ago Melody Beard left the public sector

:18:50.:18:54.

and, with a little help from a local enterprise organisation called Brev,

:18:55.:19:02.

set out for herself, opening The Hungry Catterpillar Cafe. I always

:19:03.:19:06.

wanted to work for myself. I have that personality, maybe it takes a

:19:07.:19:10.

certain type of personality to do that. Working for yourself is not

:19:11.:19:15.

exactly child's play? You need to manage the cashflow and watch that

:19:16.:19:18.

very closely, that is the difference of whether you will stay afloat or

:19:19.:19:23.

not. All of those things you are going Toffler the to have to have

:19:24.:19:37.

the initiative to do it. The three biggest self-employed strayed here

:19:38.:19:42.

but the new self-employed are different. The largest rise is from

:19:43.:19:46.

professional occupation, that is jobs like accountant, consultants

:19:47.:19:49.

and lawyers. 5% of the self-employed describe

:19:50.:19:54.

themselves as happy to be so. Although on average their earnings

:19:55.:20:02.

are 25% below those of employees. The rise in self-employment has been

:20:03.:20:06.

one of the most remarkable features of the recession and recovery.

:20:07.:20:10.

People become self-employed for very different reasons. For some it is a

:20:11.:20:17.

fourth forced choice, others value the freedom and get struck by a

:20:18.:20:20.

great idea. And sometimes find it works better with childcare. In many

:20:21.:20:30.

ways you have the best of bo worlds. There is days when it is a dream,

:20:31.:20:34.

and other days are bonkers. Obviously I'm still providing the

:20:35.:20:37.

lion's share of the childcare, as well as trying to juggle my own work

:20:38.:20:41.

around things. And that can be really quite hardcore. I ask myself

:20:42.:20:47.

do I want to get back into a company, and often the answer is,

:20:48.:20:51.

yes, simply because security does mean a lot. You have a lot more

:20:52.:20:55.

control over the work that you are doing, you can manage your projects

:20:56.:21:02.

without extra pressures added to you, in the public sector everyone

:21:03.:21:07.

wants you to do for more less all the time. That can lead toe a lot of

:21:08.:21:11.

pressure. The big story of the 20th century was the rise of the state

:21:12.:21:15.

and the increase in public sector employment. Already there are signs

:21:16.:21:20.

that the 21st century might look very different. By 2020 more people

:21:21.:21:25.

could be working for themselves than working for the Government. That's a

:21:26.:21:29.

profound change in our economy, which could cause an equally

:21:30.:21:39.

profound shift in our politics. The RSA think-tank has been examining

:21:40.:21:43.

rises in unemployment, and believes it -- the rise of self-employment,

:21:44.:21:47.

and believes it could herald a change in society. We are becoming

:21:48.:21:50.

more individualistic as a society, because we know that one thing that

:21:51.:21:55.

self-employed people enormously value is the freedom to make their

:21:56.:21:58.

own successes and mistakes. They want to be accountable for their own

:21:59.:22:03.

lives. It also has potentially quite big political implication, because

:22:04.:22:07.

we know that people who work in the public sector are more likely to

:22:08.:22:12.

vote Labour. But the research shows that around about 350% 35% of

:22:13.:22:21.

self-employed people believe the Conservative Party to be best for

:22:22.:22:25.

their business, where only 10% say Labour is. The smaller state and the

:22:26.:22:29.

large rise in self-employment are two of many changes in our economy.

:22:30.:22:35.

The economy might be back where it was in 2008, but the impact of the

:22:36.:22:39.

reshaping of the last six years, will be felt for generations to

:22:40.:22:43.

come. Whether or not you believe in the

:22:44.:22:47.

death penalty, only a hardened few would suggest that those who die on

:22:48.:22:51.

death row should take a good two hours to go. That is what happened

:22:52.:22:57.

to double murderer Joseph Wood in a zone national cirriculum the third

:22:58.:23:00.

botched execution in the US this year. Witnesses said he was left

:23:01.:23:05.

snotting and gasping for air, under sedation, as a new cocktail of drugs

:23:06.:23:10.

was administered to him. The cocktail of drugs has changed as a

:23:11.:23:15.

result of embargoes of drugs in the EU who have made the drugs used on

:23:16.:23:25.

death row illegal. This was no miscarriage of justice,

:23:26.:23:31.

25 years ago Joseph Wood killed his ex-girlfriend and her father. He was

:23:32.:23:36.

said to be smiling when he shot both in cold blood at their garage in

:23:37.:23:40.

Arizona. So everybody here from what I heard said it was excruciating.

:23:41.:23:47.

You don't know what excruciating is. What's excruciating is seeing your

:23:48.:23:50.

dad lying there in a pool of blood, seeing your sister lying there in a

:23:51.:23:55.

pool of blood. That's excruciating. This man deserved it. But Wood's

:23:56.:23:59.

execution wasn't straight forward by any means. He hung on for two hours.

:24:00.:24:06.

Gasping for air 600 times. Another controversial death as authorities

:24:07.:24:10.

struggle to get hold of the chemicals needed for a lethal

:24:11.:24:14.

injection. You guys are blowing this all out of proportion about these

:24:15.:24:20.

drugs. This man conducted a horrifying murder and you guys are

:24:21.:24:25.

going let's worry about the drug and how it affected him. Why didn't we

:24:26.:24:32.

give him a bullet, some Draino, why not something else, everybody is

:24:33.:24:36.

worried about the drugs. Drugs have been used on death row since 1982,

:24:37.:24:42.

the idea was to make the process as quick and painless as possible.

:24:43.:24:46.

Until recently three were used, first a sedating agent, then a

:24:47.:24:53.

neuromuscular blocker to cause paralysis, and then a lethal dose of

:24:54.:25:02.

potassium chloride, but a campaign by activists has brought a shortage

:25:03.:25:06.

of one of the drugs. The key moment came in to 12 when a blanket EU

:25:07.:25:12.

export ban came into force. We are seeing states scrambling around to

:25:13.:25:16.

find any drugs and mixing them together in untested and

:25:17.:25:20.

experimental combination, pulling this heavy shroud of secrecy around

:25:21.:25:25.

the whole process. We don't know the quality of the drugs and whether

:25:26.:25:28.

they have been tested to a sufficient degree and the effect it

:25:29.:25:32.

will have on a human being when you inject these drugs. This is the

:25:33.:25:37.

third botched execution this year. Clayton Lockett tried to get up 14

:25:38.:25:41.

minutes after he was injected with a new drug mix. He later died of a

:25:42.:25:46.

heart attack. And Dennis Maguire appeared to gasp and choke for half

:25:47.:25:54.

an hour after he was given Minizolan and hydromorphone, the same two drug

:25:55.:26:06.

combinations used last night. Ten Tennessee brought in new drug

:26:07.:26:11.

cocktails. But they could be challenged in court named cruel

:26:12.:26:14.

punishment which would be unconstitutional. The lethal

:26:15.:26:19.

injection has never been humane, that is a myth. We are seeing the

:26:20.:26:23.

debunking of the myth. The original cocktail had a par littic agent --

:26:24.:26:33.

paralythic agent and that was only to prevent us seeing the torment the

:26:34.:26:37.

victim was in. Now the medical veil is being pulled back and we are

:26:38.:26:40.

seeing the reality of what is happening in the execution chamber.

:26:41.:26:45.

The Governor of Arizona has ordered an investigation into last night's

:26:46.:26:48.

execution, but she said justice had still been done. And Joseph Wood had

:26:49.:26:53.

still died a better death than his two victims on another evening some

:26:54.:26:59.

25 years ago. With me now is the head of Reprieve,

:27:00.:27:08.

and Mark Class whose 12-year-old daughter Polly was raped and

:27:09.:27:12.

murdered in 1993. Mark, where is your daughter's killer now? My

:27:13.:27:15.

daughter's killer has been residing on death row at San equipment tan

:27:16.:27:22.

prison in Northern California, only about fives mimes from my home for

:27:23.:27:27.

the past 17 years. He's in a process of appeals now. The law in

:27:28.:27:33.

California has recently changed which means he won't be executed?

:27:34.:27:37.

There was a federal judge that deemed the death penalty in

:27:38.:27:41.

California cruel and unusual punishment. I would personally take

:27:42.:27:45.

exception with his definition of cruel, as was previously done in the

:27:46.:27:49.

piece that you just showed. But I'm very confident that ruling will be

:27:50.:27:57.

reversed upon appeal. So if your daughter's murderer had been Joseph

:27:58.:28:02.

Wood, who we saw in that film from Arizona who took two hours to die,

:28:03.:28:05.

would you have had a problem with that? No, not at all. From what I

:28:06.:28:11.

hear, and I have heard, in fact, that he did suffer pain during

:28:12.:28:14.

death, but nobody really knows that. The family members of his victim

:28:15.:28:19.

said he died snoring, or that he was snoring for two hours, as did the

:28:20.:28:22.

Sheriff and other representatives from the state. It was only his

:28:23.:28:26.

defence attorneys that claim it w cruel and unusual. Claire? I'm not

:28:27.:28:32.

sure that, my understanding is that various independent reporters also

:28:33.:28:36.

said that it was very disturbing to watch, that he gasped over 600

:28:37.:28:43.

times, and that it seems to me that this being the third one of these

:28:44.:28:48.

botched executions in the past six months, the US really has to look at

:28:49.:28:53.

whether it still gets to execute people, if such execution has to

:28:54.:28:57.

pass the cruel and unusual punishment. Do you accept this is an

:28:58.:29:02.

unintended consequence of the ban that you fought so hard to get, the

:29:03.:29:05.

ban on the export of lethal drugs that has, if you like, left people

:29:06.:29:11.

writhing in agony? It is not the European Union ban, it is the

:29:12.:29:15.

pharmaceutical companies who have said, these guys make medicine, they

:29:16.:29:21.

said they don't want their medicines used to kill people. That is

:29:22.:29:24.

something an organisation can do and I believe it is commendable. What is

:29:25.:29:28.

your response to Claire after hearing that? It is the European ban

:29:29.:29:32.

on the drugs, on the sale of the drugs to the United States. So

:29:33.:29:36.

frankly, there is the blood on the hands of people like Claire for all

:29:37.:29:41.

of these botched executions. I personally wish they would step

:29:42.:29:46.

aside and let us ajudicate justice as we deem fit in our country. It

:29:47.:29:51.

does seem if they are going to kill them way, if they believe in the

:29:52.:29:56.

death penalty it is only made worse for the ban, not better? It is not a

:29:57.:30:01.

European ban, it is American companies that manufacture the drugs

:30:02.:30:05.

and put these agreements in place. You support that? Yes, of course, I

:30:06.:30:09.

believe the death penalty is not something that a state should... And

:30:10.:30:14.

it makes it worse? I think Obama is looking into the question of the

:30:15.:30:18.

death penalty, and the Governor of A Rhone to that is looking at it to --

:30:19.:30:25.

a zonia is looking at it to -- Arizona is looking at it to see if

:30:26.:30:31.

it should continue. Of course people affected by these crimes, including

:30:32.:30:34.

the gentleman on the show, of course they will want to see the people who

:30:35.:30:41.

have caused them that sort of pain torn limb from limb. I have a

:30:42.:30:46.

daughter, if my daughter was killed I would absolutely want that to

:30:47.:30:52.

happen. But I in that situation shouldn't be part of the criminal

:30:53.:30:55.

justice system that deals with that. You could support the death penalty?

:30:56.:30:59.

If somebody killed my daughter I would want the death penalty carried

:31:00.:31:03.

out. That said I don't think I as that victim should get to dictate

:31:04.:31:08.

what happens. Do you believe, that do you think the victims do have any

:31:09.:31:12.

part to play in whether the death penalty should be carried out or

:31:13.:31:17.

not? The word "victim" doesn't exist in the United States constitution.

:31:18.:31:21.

But there are all kinds of rights put forward for the perpetrators of

:31:22.:31:25.

crime. The only way I have in this system at all is if I'm approached

:31:26.:31:31.

by a prosecutor as he's trying to make up his mind about imposing the

:31:32.:31:34.

death penalty or to look for it. I want to be really clear here, I

:31:35.:31:39.

don't want to see anybody torn limb from limb. I do want to see

:31:40.:31:45.

individuals who have been found guilty of heinous murders to be

:31:46.:31:49.

executed if in fact that is what a jury of their peers said and there

:31:50.:31:52.

is no question as to whether or not these individuals are guilty. There

:31:53.:31:56.

is a vast chasam between what she said and I just said. Do you believe

:31:57.:32:02.

that every method used is equally acceptable, would there be a better

:32:03.:32:06.

way, if you like of execution? Yes, absolutely, if people want to do a

:32:07.:32:10.

painless execution that is not going to be prolonged or cruel or unusual,

:32:11.:32:17.

they can do firing squads, that's pretty sure fire, or they can do the

:32:18.:32:23.

guillotine, for odness sake, there is no ambiguity about that, once the

:32:24.:32:28.

head rolls off there is no pain whatsoever, that is a done deal. The

:32:29.:32:32.

guillotine may be a step too far, what about the firing squad, you are

:32:33.:32:38.

not dealing with companies and not putting people in a place where they

:32:39.:32:43.

have to ban exports? There is a specific problem with lethal

:32:44.:32:47.

injection in that it appears to make executions surgical, it appears to

:32:48.:32:51.

make it humane, and it is not. As you were saying earlier the effects

:32:52.:32:58.

are actually horrible. The fact that people receive anaesthetic at the

:32:59.:33:00.

beginning means nobody gets to see that. It is absolutely not the case

:33:01.:33:05.

that lethal injection or execution is humane. At least if one were to

:33:06.:33:11.

be talking about a firing squad or whatever, there would be something

:33:12.:33:16.

less disingenious about that. I think in reality America has

:33:17.:33:21.

invested a great deal in the idea of humane execution, and if someone

:33:22.:33:25.

brought in the guillotine or the fire squad there would be

:33:26.:33:28.

significant investigation around that.

:33:29.:33:33.

Around ?75 million of salvageable material is buried in UK landfill

:33:34.:33:37.

every year. Much of it the old toaster, the laptop and old model

:33:38.:33:44.

cellphone. It includes precious metals too. How did we become such a

:33:45.:33:49.

throwaway society. An audit committee says we need to re-think

:33:50.:34:07.

our economy. We have this report. A kettle with a switch that doesn't

:34:08.:34:14.

work, chuck it. One key on your keyboard not working, begin it. We

:34:15.:34:20.

love our electronic gadgets and gizmo, but one tiny thing going

:34:21.:34:26.

wrong or a new shiny model coming along, the old one ends up on the

:34:27.:34:32.

scrap heap. Electronics is the fastest growing waste stream in the

:34:33.:34:39.

UK. Every year thousands of tonnes of lap tops and other gadgets end up

:34:40.:34:45.

in landfill. Our throw away culture is bad for the environment but good

:34:46.:34:49.

for the economy. It drives innovation because new stuff is

:34:50.:34:53.

better. Imagine if mobile phones hadn't changed in 20 years... Hello.

:34:54.:35:02.

So how can we continue producing better things without throwing away

:35:03.:35:09.

old ones. World record-breaking yachts woman, Dame Ellen McArthur

:35:10.:35:16.

believes the answer lies in a circumstance hall economy. When you

:35:17.:35:20.

sale around the world you take everything you need, and all you

:35:21.:35:24.

have at the end of it is all you have. I have never thought about

:35:25.:35:31.

that concept when I stepped off the boat and I realised the global

:35:32.:35:36.

economy was similar and we have a fine night number of resources and

:35:37.:35:41.

perpouring through them. We have a linear site, we take, make and

:35:42.:35:45.

dispose, when we talk about a circular economy, we design it from

:35:46.:35:51.

the outset for the cone components to flow within a system, rather than

:35:52.:35:55.

stake, make and dispose, you take and make and then feed back into the

:35:56.:36:00.

economy. Some forward-thinking designers are already embracing

:36:01.:36:08.

circular economy ideas. Take the simple light bulb, the new ones are

:36:09.:36:15.

energy efficient, LEDs are made from a complex mix of rare materials. At

:36:16.:36:21.

the moment if you want a new light bulb, you take the old one out,

:36:22.:36:26.

throw it in the waste bin and buy a new one. We create a bulb that means

:36:27.:36:32.

you can update the LEDs in the middle, press the butt onnen to in

:36:33.:36:39.

the middle and as a customer you get the latest one. New ones arrive in

:36:40.:36:45.

the post and the old ones go back. Rather than something going off in

:36:46.:36:49.

the waste treatment and you have no value from. You have can

:36:50.:36:55.

remanufacture it and resell it as a new product.

:36:56.:37:01.

I'm Dave, a designer from the Netherlands, I had an idea for a

:37:02.:37:06.

modular smartphone. Smash the screen, clip on a new one. Want a

:37:07.:37:12.

better camera, no problem. With the modular phone you only replace the

:37:13.:37:17.

parts you need, not the whole handset. Currently they usually only

:37:18.:37:21.

last for two years or something like that, this one you can upgrade every

:37:22.:37:27.

time you get old or repair a part if it gets broken so you don't have to

:37:28.:37:34.

throw it away. The problem is most manufacturers make money by selling

:37:35.:37:38.

lots of products. Not by investing in designs that make their products

:37:39.:37:42.

last longer. But some economists believe this

:37:43.:37:51.

business model will change. That model of creating profits by

:37:52.:37:57.

manufacturing material stuff and pushing it through the system relied

:37:58.:38:02.

on the idea that we had cheap resource prices but resource prices

:38:03.:38:07.

that were continually coming down. Since the millennium things have

:38:08.:38:11.

changed dramatically. Commodity prices are rising fast, more

:38:12.:38:15.

volatile than they ever were before. Two things are driving the change in

:38:16.:38:22.

commodity price, massive expansion of demand, more people wanting more

:38:23.:38:26.

of this material stuff, particularly in the emerging economies, and the

:38:27.:38:30.

second is higher costs associated with supplying it. Our beloved

:38:31.:38:38.

electronics are packed full of precious metals. Making them slim,

:38:39.:38:44.

light and smart. Circuit boards rely on gold to conduct electricity.

:38:45.:38:50.

There is one hundred-times more gold in smartphones than a tonne of gold

:38:51.:38:56.

ore. Each year we dump about 20 tonnes of precious medals in

:38:57.:39:02.

landfill. It would be more if it were for recycling plants like this

:39:03.:39:06.

one in Kent. Many broken and unloved gadgets end up here, where their

:39:07.:39:14.

precious contents are salvaged. What if our electronic goods didn't fail.

:39:15.:39:23.

I'm going to cut this to generate really severe damage. As you can see

:39:24.:39:28.

there is a crack and the only thing I have to do is close the crack and

:39:29.:39:35.

wait for one minute. After one minute I tried to open the crack

:39:36.:39:42.

again. As you can see it is very strong.

:39:43.:39:45.

If we made our gadgets from self-healing plastics they would

:39:46.:39:49.

always look shiny and new. And researchers in America have

:39:50.:39:52.

developed an astonishing self-healing material that can fix

:39:53.:39:58.

electronic circuits. This is a circuit brain, and the electronic

:39:59.:40:05.

brain inside all of your gadget s. If one of them break everything

:40:06.:40:11.

stops works. How the healing capsule works you have teeny amounts of

:40:12.:40:19.

metal, and when it breaks it puts what is necessary in here. It is

:40:20.:40:23.

products like this which will create a circular economy, to use throwaway

:40:24.:40:30.

item, something we love and feel happy about and we don't have to

:40:31.:40:34.

feel the guilt of throwing them away.

:40:35.:40:38.

In case there was a danger that you forgot what was going on in

:40:39.:40:42.

Scotland, a quick reminder of the Commonwealth Games so far.

:40:43.:40:51.

It gives me great pleasure to re-Claire the 20 Commonwealth Games

:40:52.:40:52.

in 2014. # On to the Highlands

:40:53.:41:07.

# We're leaving the lowlands # The mountains and glens stretch

:41:08.:41:12.

before you She's done it

:41:13.:41:17.

# Nessie # I believe in you Ross Murdoch will

:41:18.:41:27.

take the gold for Scotland. The Loch Ness monster and the tea cake, it

:41:28.:41:30.

was a celebration of all things north of the border. Team GB does

:41:31.:41:34.

not exist and Scotland has struck gold four times. But the games

:41:35.:41:38.

finish six weeks before the country, Scotland that is, goes to the polls

:41:39.:41:42.

to decide its future, will the patriotism and the pride play a role

:41:43.:41:46.

in the ultimate result in the referendum. Joining me now musician

:41:47.:41:52.

and commentator Pat Cane, and former minister Brian Wilson. Pat do you

:41:53.:41:56.

believe it will ultimately help the yes campaign? I didn't until I

:41:57.:41:59.

wandered through the streets of Glasgow today. If you are a Scottish

:42:00.:42:04.

football fan you are at best ironic and at worst fatalistic about the

:42:05.:42:08.

outcome of major sporting events. But the city was abuzz today. I

:42:09.:42:15.

thought the ceremony last night was a combination of Gallicness and

:42:16.:42:20.

beauty. The sense of conviviality and well being and gentle

:42:21.:42:24.

positiveness of being a nation in the world whether it is sporting or

:42:25.:42:29.

anything else, I got a sense of the "yes" campaign as well. Why does

:42:30.:42:33.

conviviality and sunshine and happiness mean that Scotland is

:42:34.:42:39.

better alone? Why do you feel and want your country to have a future.

:42:40.:42:42.

Why do you want your country to have a positive future, and how do you

:42:43.:42:46.

think you will get there. That has been the core of the yes campaign's

:42:47.:42:49.

case for the last three years. I think there is an element of

:42:50.:42:53.

demonstrating competence. If everything goes well with the event

:42:54.:42:58.

it is a bit like the spectacle of the Scottish Parliament over the

:42:59.:43:02.

next ten or so years, we have demonstrated we can govern

:43:03.:43:05.

ourselves, one of the things about the event is we can show ourselves

:43:06.:43:08.

off to the wider world. That is quite connected to wanting to be in

:43:09.:43:13.

the world as a nation state. I would say that. I am ain the yes campaign.

:43:14.:43:22.

I think these people in the streets of Glasgow their joy of the event is

:43:23.:43:27.

unrelated to their political opinions and we should keep it that

:43:28.:43:30.

way. What we should be celebrating is the internationalism of the

:43:31.:43:34.

event. The sport, the wonderful weather, Glasgow showing its face to

:43:35.:43:39.

the world, wonderful things to celebrate. Let's pay tribute to the

:43:40.:43:46.

people with the vision to set all this in motion. Anyone who tries to

:43:47.:43:52.

bring politicians into it or draw interm stations around people

:43:53.:43:55.

enjoying themselves will pay a price for that. What I would say is don't

:43:56.:43:59.

do it. Nobody is interested in talking about politics in this

:44:00.:44:02.

context, we're interested in talking about the Commonwealth Games. It is

:44:03.:44:06.

a cynical ploy isn't it, where the public think they are being pushed

:44:07.:44:12.

into a feeling of happiness by a big event and they will resist that? The

:44:13.:44:19.

original definition of the Olympics is 12 days of peace. It is slightly

:44:20.:44:24.

niave to think you can separate international sporting events from

:44:25.:44:28.

political processes. Come on! I think it is a demonstration of how

:44:29.:44:35.

people of Scotland and Glasgow can demonstrate the friendliness and the

:44:36.:44:39.

competence and ability to pull fantastic things off at a global

:44:40.:44:42.

level to the wider world. People can connect that to politics if they

:44:43.:44:47.

want. I will because that is my bent, but other people are happy to

:44:48.:44:52.

enjoy the event. Of course. A lot of the debate up until now has been

:44:53.:44:56.

over the dry macro-economics of what happened to Scotland, this is about

:44:57.:45:02.

identity, pride, passion, it is hitting a different note isn't it?

:45:03.:45:09.

You just stand very strongly against it trying to connect the two things.

:45:10.:45:13.

We all know the timing of a referendum was meant to take account

:45:14.:45:17.

or come off the back of this and the Ryder Cup coming up and so on. It

:45:18.:45:20.

was always planned in that timetable. But I think even within

:45:21.:45:26.

these two years things have changed, I think people have become very

:45:27.:45:29.

resistant to the idea that sports events should be used or manipulated

:45:30.:45:38.

by politicians in that way. Pat says you can't separate them, I think we

:45:39.:45:43.

should all try to. I think 99% of the people out there in the streets

:45:44.:45:46.

of Glasgow are having a great time and want to separate them. We should

:45:47.:45:50.

celebrate the internationalism of is it all and have a good time. You

:45:51.:45:54.

can't have internationalism without nations Bryan, forgot's sake?

:45:55.:45:59.

Nations and states are different things. I believe we have a

:46:00.:46:04.

disagreement on that in the Scottish context. Is there a moment where the

:46:05.:46:10.

tot in you wants to change -- the Scot in you wants to change your

:46:11.:46:15.

mind and say this is brilliant? What about independence? Go on Bryan,

:46:16.:46:23.

break the habit of a lifetime. I didn't get the question, you keep

:46:24.:46:27.

even which raising the question you are trying to introduce something in

:46:28.:46:31.

it, and I don't think people want to be in it. There is more reaction to

:46:32.:46:38.

introducing it as Bryan does, my attitude is suspend the hostilities

:46:39.:46:42.

and let's not judge people on their private and patriotism. Everyone in

:46:43.:46:47.

that swimming arena tonight and in Glasgow, they have exactly the same

:46:48.:46:51.

sentiments of private and patriotism no matter which countries they are

:46:52.:46:56.

supporting, let's celebrate it rather than being divided in any

:46:57.:46:59.

way. Just time quickly to whizz through

:47:00.:47:02.

the papers: That's all from us tonight, hope you

:47:03.:47:49.

can join us again, from all of us here good night.

:47:50.:48:14.

Hello again after another warm night it could be a grey start in the

:48:15.:48:25.

morning for eastern England, the low cloud will get burned back to the

:48:26.:48:29.

coast. More than we had today, mind you. Elsewhere lots of sunshine,

:48:30.:48:33.

building heat triggering a few showers in the south. It is possible

:48:34.:48:36.

we could get a shower along the north coast of Northern Ireland. It

:48:37.:48:40.

will be the last hot day for Northern Ireland

:48:41.:48:41.

The latest in Gaza, an interview with Hamas, an interview with Israel's spokesman, working for ourselves, a death penalty debate, a throwaway economy and Scotland.


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