Browse content similar to 20/08/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The voice of Islamic State has a British accent. | :00:00. | :00:13. | |
As a Government cover you have been at the forefront of aggression | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
towards Islamic State. You have plotted against us and we have had | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
to go out of our way to find ways to defend ourselves. | :00:25. | :00:25. | |
a British accent. The American journalist beheaded | :00:26. | :00:27. | |
thousands of miles away was killed, it seems, | :00:28. | :00:29. | |
by a Jihadi from our streets. His fellow British extremist | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
tells us as far as he's concerned, executions of Americans and Britons | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
are fair game. The murder's brought David Cameron | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
home early from holiday - with a promise to stop British | :00:41. | :00:42. | |
extremists travelling abroad. But how else should we react? | :00:43. | :00:49. | |
Kurdish forces struggle to push the extremists back. | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
We're on Northern Iraq's front line, as thousands of refugees | :00:52. | :00:59. | |
flee for their lives. leaving loved | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
ones to an uncertain fate. It's all too familiar - as the | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
unrest in Missouri continues, what can they learn from Los Angeles, | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
torn apart by riots in 1992? "Each unhappy family is unhappy | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
in its own way" - the wife of the author | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
of those words is about to make her publishing | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
debut, 100 years late. We'll debate the hidden talent in | :01:17. | :01:17. | |
those tortured artistic marriages. Good evening. The accent betrays it | :01:18. | :01:33. | |
- James Foley's killer was not from the lands he claims to defend, but | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
appears to have been from Britain. His clear, fanatical willingness to | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
murder an innocent man, a contrast perhaps to Iraq and the West's | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
stuttering attempts to defeat Islamic State. | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
Foley's eerily calm, forced delivery of a message that | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
blamed his own country for his fate, followed by, as you're about to | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
hear, the cold words of his killer, addressed directly to Barack Obama. | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
Today, your military air force is attacking us daily in Iraq. Your | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
strikes have caused casualties amongst Muslims. | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
The American had been working as a freelance journalist | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
when he was kidnapped in Syria in 2012. Earlier today, his family | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
spoke of their pride in him. We know Jimmy is free, finally free, | :02:24. | :02:30. | |
and we know he is in God's hands. We know he is... Doing God's work | :02:31. | :02:39. | |
and we know he is in heaven. The killing | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
has been condemned across the West, but the vexed question, how to | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
respond? Tonight, the United States has continued its air strikes | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
against Islamic State in Iraq and vowed to carry out more in an | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
attempt to buttress Kurdish forces in the North. President Obama said | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
America would continue "to do what we must do". | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
Friends and allies around the world, we share a | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
common security and a common set of values that are rooted in the | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
opposite of what we saw yesterday and we will continue to confront | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
this hateful terrorism and replace it with a sense of hope and | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
civility. That is what Jim Foley stood for. | :03:22. | :03:22. | |
Here, David Cameron cut short his holiday, returning to | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
Downing Street to hold emergency meetings. His challenge, though, is | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
not just what to do in Iraq but how to start extremism starting at home | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
and then spreading throughout the world. This battle we face against | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
Islamist extremism, not the religion of Islam, but a poisonous, | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
extremist, violence narrative, is a generational struggle. | :03:50. | :03:51. | |
It's a battle we have to fight in our own country, | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
it's a battle that with allies, using everything | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
we have, our aid, our diplomacy and, yes, on occasions, our military | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
prowess, but we have to fight, whether it is dealing with this | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
problem in Somalia, in Mali, in Afghanistan, in Iraq and Syria. | :04:06. | :04:13. | |
Richard Watson is here, he has studied British extremists for many | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
years. Can we be sure this man is British? It looks that way, we can't | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
be absolutely certain that even a casual observation of the video | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
suggests his voices from London, perhaps. We won't know until they | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
actually confirm that, of course, so we could have a British citizen | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
murdering, in cold blood, an American citizen. How will the | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
police and security services go about trying to identify him? There | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
are two things they will be doing right now. The first is voice | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
recognition, trawling through using supercomputers on both sides of the | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
Atlantic, thousands of voices on file. That does assume they have | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
something on file to compare the video to. This brings up the | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
question of whether this person has some intelligence trace whether they | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
are a clean skin. In all likelihood, they will have some kind of | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
intelligence trace and identification won't be that | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
difficult. The striking thing, as you suggest, is we potentially have | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
a British citizen killing an American citizen and as David | :05:20. | :05:21. | |
Cameron is suggesting, the implication for the threat here. How | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
big is it? It is very significant. I spoke to one Jihadi contact, who | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
knows the scene quite well under Al-Qaeda and says it is very much | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
more dangerous than the situation when Al-Qaeda was the principal | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
threat. This new threat is much more significant. The current analysis | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
from the Security service is that a friend about 500 people are assessed | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
to have travelled and to Syria to join the most extreme elements, ISIS | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
and the most extreme elements of the spectrum. My sources are telling me | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
that 260 of those people have returned to the UK already. 260 are | :06:00. | :06:07. | |
already back here? Already back in the UK, which represent a very large | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
potential threat to the UK and that is being taken very seriously. | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
Although it is true to say that the vast majority of those people | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
weren't wished to attack Britain, it is certainly possible that some will | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
have that aspiration in mind -- will not wish to attack Britain. Richard, | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
thank you very much indeed. Afghanistan, in Iraq and Syria. | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
The identity of the man is not yet clear. But what do we know about the | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
mindset that would lead a young man or woman not just to believe in the | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
IS cause, but to travel to the dangerous region, and be ready | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
to fight and kill? Secunder Kermani's | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
Been in contact with a British man to that cause. | :06:49. | :07:01. | |
Who is this man question mark yesterday, we saw him kill | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
journalist John Foley. His action, condemned by many, have been praised | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
by members of the group Islamic State. I have been speaking to two | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
British Jihadis fighting in Britain today about their reaction to the | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
video. Despite evidence to the contrary, they both believed Foley | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
was an American soldier, not a journalist. I have been speaking to | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
one of the men for around three months by instant message services. | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
He has given me an insight into the mentality of the British men | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
fighting alongside the group Islamic State. His name references are dead | :07:36. | :07:46. | |
Iraqi cleric, but he is a British man part of the Islamic State | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
advance toward Aleppo, shot and injured last week. He says he went | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
to Syria to fight the asset atrocities and eventually joined the | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
Islamic State. It was the only group fighting for the return of the | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
Khalifa. The other groups claimed to be Islamic, but actions proved | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
otherwise. After capturing towns around Aleppo last week, Islamic | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
State fighters allegedly beheaded groups of other fighters. I asked if | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
it was true. Yes, we kind of beheaded some guys as well. I | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
believe there were maybe three or four guys that we beheaded. There | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
may have been more, but I am not aware of them, I am aware of the | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
three or four guys we beheaded and put their heads, as usual, in the | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
middle of the town centre. The reason for putting them in the town | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
centre is to demoralise or cause fear in the hearts of the spies who | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
are amongst us, because we know there are a lot of spies amongst us. | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
Islamic states say they killed Foley in response to US air strikes | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
against the group in Iraq. Before those strikes had even taken place, | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
I asked despite what the response would be to any American action | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
against them. His answers, at times, sounded like pure propaganda. Bring | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
your soldiers, new American soldiers. Your British soldiers, | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
bring them to ISIS. We will send them back one by one as corpses. | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
Also, America does not need to attack ISIS in Iraq for us to attack | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
them back. America started the war against Muslims along time ago. So | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
even if American troops do not come on our soil, we will come to an | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
American soil to slaughter your soldiers, the way you have | :09:36. | :09:37. | |
slaughtered our brothers and sisters. I asked him about other | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
atrocities committed by Islamic State, like the mass executions of | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
captured Shia soldiers in Iraq. It is principle, it is people that | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
oppressors. They had tortured our brothers and sisters in prison. It | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
is permissible for us to execute them just as it is permissible for | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
our brothers in the UK to execute returning soldiers from Iraq and | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
Afghanistan. It is permissible. This touches on one of the main fear is | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
articulated by the security services, but British fighters in | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
Syria could return to launch an attack here. I hate the UK. The only | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
reason I would intend to return back to the UK is because I want to go | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
and plant a bomb somewhere. Of the answers are shocking, but in | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
contrast to his angry and violent tone, for much of our interaction, | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
he was softly spoken. I asked him what led him down this radical path. | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
To be honest with you, I was living the life of the opposite Pat, I | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
would doss around so much and I started questioning, what am I | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
doing? Feeling like a lost sheep in this world, I started to question | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
what I was doing. So how do we confront that kind of | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
belief, here or in the United States. Doctor Janine Davidson, who | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
worked in Obama's defence, is with this, | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
Kermani's and Afzal Ashraf, fellow at RUSI. | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
and firstly, how do you react to hearing a young man talk so | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
callously and coldly and placing some -- no value on human life? It | :11:19. | :11:26. | |
is an old narrative, it is not new. It has been there for the last ten | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
or 15 years, since Al-Qaeda came on the scene, and what they do to | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
justify this callous behaviour is they say the West has conducted | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
operations against us with that sort of coldness and callous attitude. Of | :11:41. | :11:48. | |
course, it is wrong, but that is how they justify their lack of | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
compassion. But how do we confronted when it does have a truly shocking | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
flavour of no regard at all for human life or the safety of other | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
people? There are lots of things to do to confront it. I think the Prime | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
Minister mention many of the things being done, the intelligence | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
services are working very hard, they do a lot of work which they cannot | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
reveal, to counter this sort of thing. There are counter | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
radicalisation initiatives in many communities, but the one thing that | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
will definitely confront it is the concept of success. They believe | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
they are going to succeed. What we need to do is show that they are not | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
going to succeed. Al-Qaeda, ten years ago, started with a very | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
similar narrative. It has failed. This organisation has come out of | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
Al-Qaeda's failure and what they are now experiencing, the reason for | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
this video yesterday, was simply because they are beginning to feel | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
that they are failing. They now have the Peshmerga on the doorstep of | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
their capital, Mosul. Doctor Janine Davidson, does this look like the | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
start of the Islamic State failure to you? Well, I do think that the | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
acts that we have seen in the last day, the tragic beheading, | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
demonstrates the barbaric behaviour of this group on the one hand. On | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
the other hand, it does, I think, demonstrate a little bit of | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
desperation, but they are resorting to something like this, it | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
demonstrates that they don't have as many options as they think they | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
have. John McCain, for example, tonight is suggesting they should be | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
a significant increase in the American response and there will be | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
many citizens right around the world look at this video and say, yes, it | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
is now time for something much more drastic than supporting Kurdish | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
forces in northern Iraq. What would you do? Well, I do think that we | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
need a measured and a strong response, we need to continue to | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
build on this is an act of desperation, kind of what I am | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
saying is the air strikes and the coordinated efforts with the Iraqi | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
army and Kurdish forces have clearly pushed them back on their heels a | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
little bit. If we were to say, OK, good enough, we did the humanitarian | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
thing and pushed them back from the Mosul dam, they will come back, | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
definitely. They're recruiting is enormous, there are people flocking | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
to their sanctuary in Syria to join this group. As long as this group | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
appears to be succeeding, they will continue to attract recruits and | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
continue to attract groups like those in Indonesia who, in the last | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
couple of weeks, have both said they are going to affiliate with the IS | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
group. Set in concrete terms, what should we do? There is talk in | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
Washington of hundreds of extra troops going to Baghdad. In the long | :14:55. | :15:03. | |
term, the regional actors need to reject this ideology. We need a | :15:04. | :15:12. | |
multi regional effort. If we do not consolidate our tactical military | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
efforts, then we are not going to succeed. What really needs to | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
happen, unfortunately we have to admit that this is a group that is | :15:25. | :15:32. | |
on the verge of becoming a terrorist army capability wise, that operates | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
across the boundaries between Syria and Iraq. We consider those two | :15:36. | :15:44. | |
things separate conflicts. But if we are going to roll back their | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
momentum, we have got to get to the sanctuaries in Syria. I would | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
recommend we need to take out their training camps there. In terms of | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
David Cameron's ambition, he says he wants to defeat IS. The difficulty | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
is that similar ideologies have been around for more than a decade and we | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
have heard these kinds of things before. We have urged regional | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
actors to work more closely together. Is it realistic per David | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
Cameron to say we should defeat IS? It is a realistic expectation. The | :16:17. | :16:25. | |
reason IS exist is because Al-Qaeda failed. The forerunner of IS | :16:26. | :16:35. | |
affiliated with Al-Qaeda in 2004. It does not matter to most people what | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
it is called. What matters is what is actually happening on the ground? | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
You are right. But the point is for them to succeed they have got to | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
become more shocking, more appalling and more exclusive. What they have | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
now done is they are at war with everybody around them. This video is | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
shocking to us in London and Washington. There have been other | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
videos, hundreds of videos, of beheadings of shears, Sunnis etc. | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
They are killing everybody around them. They do not trust even their | :17:11. | :17:19. | |
own. They are paranoid about spies. This is an organisation that is | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
imploding ideological. Thank you both. | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
While the killing of an American cranks up the pressure on the west | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
to intensify their response, Islamic state continues its push across | :17:36. | :17:37. | |
parts of the Middle East, killing Christians and Muslims. Swathes of | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
people fleeing their homes. We have been to northern Iraq, or 200,000 | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
refugees have arrived in the past few weeks, in search of safety. | :17:49. | :17:59. | |
How can a country have a future when it is losing its next generation? At | :18:00. | :18:09. | |
this refugee camp, children are chanting, no Iraq, no Iraq! At camps | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
across the region every day hundreds of desperate and exhausted Iraqis | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
arriving to flee IS militants. In searing heat of more than 50 | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
degrees, they wait, unsure of what will come next. The Yazidi minority | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
group had felt the full force of IS militants. Many of the survivors are | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
separated from their families. They tell of relatives kidnapped and sold | :18:38. | :18:46. | |
into slavery. Refugees are spilling out into every corner of this city. | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
This ancient religious sect have lived in northern Iraq for thousands | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
of years. Now advancing Islamic State fighters have told them to | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
convert to Islam or die. In an abandoned building, they remember | :19:02. | :19:12. | |
one of their dead. This 19-year-old man was killed at a | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
checkpoint as his family fled their home. The family were separated when | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
they came under attack. Your sister is still missing? | :19:22. | :20:08. | |
The family have searched along the Syrian border and surrounding | :20:09. | :20:19. | |
villages. But they fear kidnapped by Islamic State militants. Her | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
father's family have lived in the region for generations. A face the | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
prospect of never being able to return. | :20:28. | :20:28. | |
-- they face the prospect. 30 Minutes Drive away, they took me | :20:29. | :21:08. | |
to meet their sister-in-law, injured in the firefight. She showed me her | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
wounds. She is still waiting for treatment. | :21:12. | :21:28. | |
The bullets have not been removed. But it is not just the Yazidis who | :21:29. | :21:52. | |
have been persecuted. The Christians, and other minority group | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
who have lived in Iraq for 2000 years, are also now internally | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
displaced people, driven from their homes. For a local volunteers, the | :22:00. | :22:10. | |
challenge is enormous. The local population is around | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
13,000. We have about 25,000 refugees. Health care is very | :22:15. | :22:22. | |
difficult. There are too many people without enough health care. | :22:23. | :22:30. | |
There is anger here. The Yazidi is in particular feel abandoned and | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
betrayed. Much of their anger is directed towards the Kurdish | :22:35. | :22:41. | |
military, the Peshmerga. Those people have been prompted by | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
Peshmerga. They will defend him. They will be there until the end of | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
their life. They do not believe what has happened because the Peshmerga | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
left the area. Like many Iraqis, these people feel the country holds | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
no future for them. Ali's mother and sister were kidnapped as they | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
attempted to flee to Mount Sinjar. I hear something maybe you did not | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
hear. They are selling my sister and mother. The other people they called | :23:15. | :23:25. | |
me. $600. No like Iraq. We don't like. It is a sentiment echoed | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
across the region. 100 miles north-west, the Peshmerga are | :23:33. | :23:35. | |
attempting to push back the IS advance. In the last four weeks, | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
this Brigadier and his soldiers every taken three nearby villages | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
from IS fighters. It is a constant challenge holding them back. This is | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
the front line. We cannot go beyond this point. IS militants are just | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
two kilometres away. These Kurdish forces are the only ones fighting | :24:00. | :24:06. | |
IS. What are they fighting for? No longer a united Iraq. Their fight is | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
for their own state, an independent Kurdistan. | :24:10. | :24:27. | |
But if there were to arise here, are you satisfied your men would be able | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
to defend this area? -- arrive. He rejects accusations the Peshmerga | :24:33. | :24:48. | |
did little to against IS brutality. | :24:49. | :25:01. | |
-- the Yazidis. Many villages like this are now | :25:02. | :25:26. | |
usually quiet. Abandoned. Even if they could, people do not want to | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
return. Their homes have become the front line in the war against IS. | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
return. Their homes have become the threat from militants, Iraq is on | :25:34. | :25:41. | |
the brink of becoming a failed state. Is -- it's ever deepening | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
social divisions and sectarian violence around doing the very | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
fabric of this nation. Another night, another set of | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
clashes between young people on the streets of an American suburb and | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
the police. The American Attorney General travelled to Ferguson, | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
Missouri today, to try to soothe tensions between the two site after | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
an 18-year-old was shot dead by an officer of more than a week ago. | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
Stand-offs between police and African-American protestors are not | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
new. " -- how can communities move on? Alastair Leithead has been to | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
Los Angeles to find the lessons of the 1992 race riots. | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
We are getting words this evening of rock-throwing by youths in South | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
Central Los Angeles. It follows the Rodney King beating. | :26:39. | :26:40. | |
Central Los Angeles. It follows the Central, Los Angeles. Riots, | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
violence and looting spread across the city. The Los Angeles Police | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
Department was institutionally racist. Police brutality was | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
endemic. The beating of Rodney King was the proof on video tape of an | :26:55. | :27:00. | |
everyday reality. For years people had a grievance about what they call | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
police abuse. And they either complained about it or didn't | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
complain about it, but they never saw that it was resolved or | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
believable. What Rodney King did on video tape validated every abuse | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
complaint that people ever had. They were able to point at it and say, | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
that happened to me. When the policemen responsible were | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
acquitted, the city exploded. Dozens died in six days of violence. They | :27:31. | :27:38. | |
say the same thing in Ferguson, Missouri today. But just two days | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
after Michael Brown was killed in Ferguson, a 24-year-old unarmed | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
African American man was shot dead in LA. The protests over his killing | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
have not been as big in LA. The protests over his killing | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
There has been little media attention. | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
He was in his own little world. He was special. He had special needs. | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
's family say he had learning difficulties. Witnesses say he was | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
lying face down when a police man shot him in the back. The LAPD say | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
there was a struggle as he went for the officer's gone. The community is | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
furious. Crewe we on -- we all want the same | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
thing. For the truth to come out. I know exactly what everybody in this | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
audience once. The LA police chief came to the meeting to hear | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
people's concerns. There were many. Have some respect. | :28:37. | :28:45. | |
My question is when insist copper to be named, indicted and convicted? | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
How many more times are we going to have to come here to hear the same | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
old you know what. There is a huge amount of anger here. But it is a | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
remarkable contrast to the reaction we have seen in Ferguson, Missouri. | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
This is a community meeting, with people able to take the microphone | :29:08. | :29:09. | |
and talk directly to the police chief. | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
It is really important that they understand 20, 25 views ago, we | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
would not have had this conversation. There would have been | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
an enormous amount of antipathy. The community would not have trusted us | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
to come to this forum. A great deal date change in the wake of the LA | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
riots. The LA police chief resigned. More black and Hispanic officers | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
were recruited. Ties with the team unity improved. There is still | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
tension. Daniel Solomon believes the police need to be more closely | :29:43. | :29:52. | |
monitored. This is how he does it. I record the police, try to hold them | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
accountable, restore some transparency and try and keep them | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
behaving themselves. Daniel filmed the protests. He thinks everybody | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
should record the police. Police in a lot of areas are out of control | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
and I am trying to encourage the people to take out their cameras, | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
recorder police and keep them accountable. The immediate question | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
is how to quickly bring to an end the violence in Ferguson, Missouri. | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
In LA, they used the National Guard and overwhelming force. The lesson | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
learned is that the long-term solution takes many, many years of | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
rebuilding trust and a real determination to change. With me | :30:33. | :30:40. | |
from Washington, DC is the civil rights leader Jesse Jackson and from | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
New York, the former head of the NYPD, Carnation Bernard Kerik. Mr | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
Jackson, you will remember the LA riots and you have been to Ferguson. | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
How can that community move on? I cannot hear you well. We will sort | :30:58. | :31:07. | |
that divine out. -- at line-out. I can hear you know. Excellent, I will | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
ask again. You will remember the LA riots very well and you have | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
travelled to Ferguson. How can the community move on and break the | :31:16. | :31:18. | |
stand-off between the two sides? When you have mistrust and | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
discontent, people feeling abandoned, it becomes like dry | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
chips. Then some spark of brutality triggers the explosion and you look | :31:31. | :31:40. | |
at the coroner's report from 50 or 60 years ago, from New York, to | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
Detroit, to LA, it was always the spark that unleashed the fury. In | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
Ferguson, you have overwhelming and excessive force reacting to a | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
policeman who shot a boy in broad daylight and killed him, shot him | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
six times, and so far he has not even been a suspect, let alone being | :32:01. | :32:10. | |
charged, which compounds the sense of defiance. You say the police in | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
Ferguson have used excessive force during the protest. Are they not | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
just trying to ensure the safety of the community there? It is excessive | :32:19. | :32:25. | |
force, to bring out the military tanks and the military armour and | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
the gas masks, that was unnecessary. It was sort of embarrassing, they | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
swept everybody, including journalists, and the next night, | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
they pulled everybody out, so there was no protection at all, the next | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
date was a curfew. It looks like the police did not know what they were | :32:46. | :32:56. | |
doing. They have a record. 6% of the police force are African-American, | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
there is a cultural divide and it is creating hostilities. This is, I | :33:02. | :33:10. | |
might add, that Ferguson is going to be a metaphor for urban America, and | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
unless there is a more comprehensive policy to deal with unemployment and | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
police relations, it could spread open. Bernard Kerik, Jesse Jackson | :33:21. | :33:28. | |
is blaming excessive police force. He said it has been the equivalent | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
of martial law, do you accept that? Not necessarily. I have been vocal | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
on this, I disagreed with the police response on the first night. You | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
have unarmed protesters who were obviously unarmed, protesting | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
peacefully, and you had a response with semiautomatic weapons aimed at | :33:49. | :33:55. | |
some of these people, the tactical gear that was being used and brought | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
out publicly, I think that incited a lot of people in the community. I | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
think it really did a disservice to the situation. However, we have seen | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
since where there has been gunfire in the crowd, Molotov cocktails | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
thrown, there has been enormous public and private property | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
destruction by the protesters. Well, we live in a society where you have | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
to be held accountable and the police have to respond to force with | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
force, and I think that is what they have done. Reverend Jackson, they | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
have to respond, they have no choice? Well, what is driving the | :34:34. | :34:41. | |
gangster? It is that this young man was shot and for seven days, they | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
concealed the name of the policeman who shot him in broad daylight and | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
then, before they released the name, they released a tape of a robbery | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
that had nothing to do with him being shot, because he was shot down | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
the street later, not as a suspect, but walking across the street in his | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
own neighbourhood. People saw that as an attempt to discredit the dead | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
man and give some privilege to the killer cop. Then two days later, | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
there has still been no apology, no contrition, no sense of reaching | :35:15. | :35:20. | |
out, it has all been by the police department, defensive. I think they | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
have botched an opportunity, people black and white want to come | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
together but I have seen in this instance, bad policing. Commissioner | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
Bernard Kerik, beyond the incompetence you have both suggested | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
in those first days of this protest, what should the police do | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
in a situation like this? You have experience of leading the NYPD | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
during a uniquely anxious time in New York at the 9/11, how should the | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
police approach such times public anxiety? First and foremost, I think | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
that they have to be more public and they have to communicate more with | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
the community. I didn't see the governor had publicly until I think | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
the third or fourth day, but it may have been longer -- out publicly. | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
They should be holding daily press conferences, talking to the | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
community daily, interacting with the community daily, but I want to | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
go back to one thing the Reverend talked about and that is the officer | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
that was involved in the shooting. I have to stress to the people | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
watching the show, there is a due process in this country. We live by | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
the Constitution. People are calling for justice, well let justice be | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
done with the process taking place and then let a grand jury decide | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
whether this person is guilty. We have crucified him, the media, the | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
politicians have crucified this officer, some people calling him a | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
murderer. That has not been determined yet. There is a process | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
we should follow, there are laws that have to be followed, there is | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
an investigation that has been thoroughly conducted by the local | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
state and federal authorities. Let them and a grand jury make the | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
determination on what happened and not these political pundits, not the | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
general public, not the critics. Let the process take its place, that is | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
the law of this country. Reverend Jackson? Michael Brown was denied | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
due process, the police was a judge, jury and executioner. He was | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
unarmed, 18 years old, in his own neighbourhood and there was no need | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
to shoot him down and leave him lying in the street, rotting like a | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
dog. Whatever the rights and wrongs of what happened, Reverend Jackson, | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
would it not at this moment in time be right for people to see | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
leadership? Would it not have been helpful for the president, not the | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
Attorney General, the first African-American president, to go to | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
Ferguson and appeal for calm? I think absence is the quiet -- do not | :38:02. | :38:12. | |
need absence in -- quietness in the absence of noise. I would like to | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
think that police Department is getting federal funds, I do not | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
think they should get any because they do not read the standards for | :38:23. | :38:32. | |
gender and race equality. The situation is simply volatile. I hope | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
we will calm the fears of all the people involved, I regret there has | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
been the tear gas as well as the Molotov cocktails, but I think the | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
police chiefs' lack of civility has been a big factor in driving things | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
out of control. Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time, we must | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
leave it there. Now, you know something special happens in | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
Edinburgh this time of year but this time tomorrow, something rather | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
special is happening on Newsnight. Here is Kirsty. | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
Tomorrow night, we live from the Edinburgh Festival, and four weeks | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
from the vote, the referendum is everywhere, in stand-up comedy, on | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
the street, taxis, and even politicians on soapboxes. Join us | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
with special guests including Rory Bremner, Simon Callow and a host of | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
others, when we put the referendum centrestage. | :39:24. | :39:25. | |
and Afzal Ashraf, fellow at RUSI. Behind every great man, there's a | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
great... Well, you know how the saying | :39:32. | :39:33. | |
goes. One of the greatest writers may indeed have had a great rival | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
behind him - well, at least in his household. In fact, in his own | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
stormy marriage. This is the Tolstoy we've all heard of. | :39:41. | :39:47. | |
I am seized by an oppressive doubt. Where in this tale is the evil that | :39:48. | :39:55. | |
should be avoided and where is the good that should be imitated? Who is | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
the villain and who is the story of the late hero of the story -- the | :40:00. | :40:06. | |
hero of the story? All are good and all are bad. | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
we've all heard of. But the woman who shared his life | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
and bore him 13 children, Sophia Tolstoy, is now to have her own | :40:14. | :40:15. | |
work in print. Her own work Has been sitting in dusty Russian | :40:16. | :40:27. | |
archives for over a century. How many other writers have been lost in | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
time in the Shadow of their other halves? If Tolstoy's wife was one of | :40:31. | :40:40. | |
them, who else has been a completely forgotten other half? I wouldn't say | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
completely forgotten, because we are starting to resurrect the | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
reputations of a lot of people, including the wife of the composer | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
Schumann. We also think of a number of people who are in the public eye, | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
who have always been in the public eye, part of the canon of British | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
literature, for example, so Mary Shelley, married to Percy Shelley. | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
The Brownings. They weren't always hiding behind the male Shadow. But | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
if they were people we have sort of heard of, are there still great | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
artists and writers who are somehow being completely hidden or | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
overshadowed by their more famous other halves? Absolutely, it goes | :41:25. | :41:31. | |
without saying but I think there are a lot of artists and writers and | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
historical figures who were men who we are not looking at because we are | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
so obsessed with icons, and so obsessed with re-examining the light | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
of the same people over and over again. Annie, you are a painter, why | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
do you think this happens? Is it possible sometimes in a relationship | :41:51. | :41:52. | |
where there is somebody who we might call a genius or a great talent, | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
there is just not room for anybody else? I think there is a real | :41:57. | :42:06. | |
tradition of believing that creative genius is a specifically male thing | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
and the woman's role is very much the Muse, the supporter. But | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
actually, in history, if you look back, write to the 16th century, | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
there were very successful female artists, who in that they were | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
hugely famous and celebrated, and, in fact, more famous than a lot of | :42:25. | :42:32. | |
the men. But I think the way history has been recorded, unfortunately, | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
there just has not been the interest in them since their death and like | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
Hallie said, there is the institutional reinforcement of the | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
idea, with us constantly seeing exhibitions of Impressionists, but | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
they don't include the women impressionists, to the point where | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
you read about them and can't believe you don't know about them, | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
because you have seen so many exhibitions. In terms of artistic | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
talent, is that anything beyond what we would normally experience because | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
of the vagaries of history? Whether in politics, science or other | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
fields? Because men had public roles while women largely didn't, they | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
were largely hidden. Is it different in art, even today? I think there | :43:14. | :43:24. | |
are lots of couples today that, interestingly, if you look at the | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
women, you still get this kind of accusation that the woman is somehow | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
feeding off the fame of the other half, but interestingly, if you look | :43:35. | :43:41. | |
at male couples, for example Jasper Johns and Rauschenberg, they are | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
both seen as successful artists, or Gilbert and George, so that is an | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
interesting difference. Hallie, do the less famous other halves, do | :43:52. | :43:57. | |
they deserve to get discovered or is it easy to blame their lack of | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
success on their gigantically famous spouse? I think sometimes they do | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
and there are a number of people who are overshadowed who we don't know | :44:07. | :44:09. | |
about. We know about Richard Brinsley Sheridan, who was a famous | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
playwright and MP, but we don't know about Lindy, who was a fantastic | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
soprano, who was his wife, who he did not want to perform after she | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
married him. He sabotaged her career? He did. There was an artist, | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
and impressionist woman, whose husband sabotaged her career, not | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
because he did not want her to be an artist but because he was | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
anti-Impressionism. So from a point of principle rather than envy or | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
wanting her to disappear. Do you think it still happens now, this | :44:45. | :44:45. | |
kind of challenge? think it still happens now, this | :44:46. | :44:54. | |
now. I doubt many women would put up with it. The women I | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
now. I doubt many women would put up artists who go out | :44:59. | :45:00. | |
now. I doubt many women would put up artists, I can't imagine any of them | :45:01. | :45:02. | |
putting up with this kind of sabotaged. I think it is a very | :45:03. | :45:09. | |
different situation now. I think you are absolutely right, women wouldn't | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
put up with it necessarily but in the past, women were expected to | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
take a back-seat. They were expected to help their shine. Even somebody | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
like Schumann, she supported her husband had made sure his work | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
like Schumann, she supported her recognised, playing it in concerts. | :45:33. | :45:34. | |
Sophia Tolstoy was an odd champion of her husband's work. Maybe it is | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
not always about being the Muse, we must leave it there. That is almost | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
it for tonight, but I hope you are ready for this. We leave you with a | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
tribute to the man regarded by many as the father of modern yoga. | :45:48. | :45:49. | |
work in print. Her own work B.K.S. Iyengar has died at the age | :45:50. | :45:51. | |
of 95. He practised yoga for eight decades | :45:52. | :45:59. | |
and could still do a head stand for more than half an hour until just | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
last year. Here he is in more supple form back in 1977, at a sprightly 59 | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
years old. Good night. | :46:07. | :46:09. |