20/08/2014 Newsnight


The stories behind the day's headlines. Including British jihadis, a view from the frontline in Iraq, lessons from the LA race riots and Tolstoy's unhappy family.

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The voice of Islamic State has a British accent.


As a Government cover you have been at the forefront of aggression


towards Islamic State. You have plotted against us and we have had


to go out of our way to find ways to defend ourselves.


a British accent. The American journalist beheaded


thousands of miles away was killed, it seems,


by a Jihadi from our streets. His fellow British extremist


tells us as far as he's concerned, executions of Americans and Britons


are fair game. The murder's brought David Cameron


home early from holiday - with a promise to stop British


extremists travelling abroad. But how else should we react?


Kurdish forces struggle to push the extremists back.


We're on Northern Iraq's front line, as thousands of refugees


flee for their lives. leaving loved


ones to an uncertain fate. It's all too familiar - as the


unrest in Missouri continues, what can they learn from Los Angeles,


torn apart by riots in 1992? "Each unhappy family is unhappy


in its own way" - the wife of the author


of those words is about to make her publishing


debut, 100 years late. We'll debate the hidden talent in


those tortured artistic marriages. Good evening. The accent betrays it


- James Foley's killer was not from the lands he claims to defend, but


appears to have been from Britain. His clear, fanatical willingness to


murder an innocent man, a contrast perhaps to Iraq and the West's


stuttering attempts to defeat Islamic State.


Foley's eerily calm, forced delivery of a message that


blamed his own country for his fate, followed by, as you're about to


hear, the cold words of his killer, addressed directly to Barack Obama.


Today, your military air force is attacking us daily in Iraq. Your


strikes have caused casualties amongst Muslims.


The American had been working as a freelance journalist


when he was kidnapped in Syria in 2012. Earlier today, his family


spoke of their pride in him. We know Jimmy is free, finally free,


and we know he is in God's hands. We know he is... Doing God's work


and we know he is in heaven. The killing


has been condemned across the West, but the vexed question, how to


respond? Tonight, the United States has continued its air strikes


against Islamic State in Iraq and vowed to carry out more in an


attempt to buttress Kurdish forces in the North. President Obama said


America would continue "to do what we must do".


Friends and allies around the world, we share a


common security and a common set of values that are rooted in the


opposite of what we saw yesterday and we will continue to confront


this hateful terrorism and replace it with a sense of hope and


civility. That is what Jim Foley stood for.


Here, David Cameron cut short his holiday, returning to


Downing Street to hold emergency meetings. His challenge, though, is


not just what to do in Iraq but how to start extremism starting at home


and then spreading throughout the world. This battle we face against


Islamist extremism, not the religion of Islam, but a poisonous,


extremist, violence narrative, is a generational struggle.


It's a battle we have to fight in our own country,


it's a battle that with allies, using everything


we have, our aid, our diplomacy and, yes, on occasions, our military


prowess, but we have to fight, whether it is dealing with this


problem in Somalia, in Mali, in Afghanistan, in Iraq and Syria.


Richard Watson is here, he has studied British extremists for many


years. Can we be sure this man is British? It looks that way, we can't


be absolutely certain that even a casual observation of the video


suggests his voices from London, perhaps. We won't know until they


actually confirm that, of course, so we could have a British citizen


murdering, in cold blood, an American citizen. How will the


police and security services go about trying to identify him? There


are two things they will be doing right now. The first is voice


recognition, trawling through using supercomputers on both sides of the


Atlantic, thousands of voices on file. That does assume they have


something on file to compare the video to. This brings up the


question of whether this person has some intelligence trace whether they


are a clean skin. In all likelihood, they will have some kind of


intelligence trace and identification won't be that


difficult. The striking thing, as you suggest, is we potentially have


a British citizen killing an American citizen and as David


Cameron is suggesting, the implication for the threat here. How


big is it? It is very significant. I spoke to one Jihadi contact, who


knows the scene quite well under Al-Qaeda and says it is very much


more dangerous than the situation when Al-Qaeda was the principal


threat. This new threat is much more significant. The current analysis


from the Security service is that a friend about 500 people are assessed


to have travelled and to Syria to join the most extreme elements, ISIS


and the most extreme elements of the spectrum. My sources are telling me


that 260 of those people have returned to the UK already. 260 are


already back here? Already back in the UK, which represent a very large


potential threat to the UK and that is being taken very seriously.


Although it is true to say that the vast majority of those people


weren't wished to attack Britain, it is certainly possible that some will


have that aspiration in mind -- will not wish to attack Britain. Richard,


thank you very much indeed. Afghanistan, in Iraq and Syria.


The identity of the man is not yet clear. But what do we know about the


mindset that would lead a young man or woman not just to believe in the


IS cause, but to travel to the dangerous region, and be ready


to fight and kill? Secunder Kermani's


Been in contact with a British man to that cause.


Who is this man question mark yesterday, we saw him kill


journalist John Foley. His action, condemned by many, have been praised


by members of the group Islamic State. I have been speaking to two


British Jihadis fighting in Britain today about their reaction to the


video. Despite evidence to the contrary, they both believed Foley


was an American soldier, not a journalist. I have been speaking to


one of the men for around three months by instant message services.


He has given me an insight into the mentality of the British men


fighting alongside the group Islamic State. His name references are dead


Iraqi cleric, but he is a British man part of the Islamic State


advance toward Aleppo, shot and injured last week. He says he went


to Syria to fight the asset atrocities and eventually joined the


Islamic State. It was the only group fighting for the return of the


Khalifa. The other groups claimed to be Islamic, but actions proved


otherwise. After capturing towns around Aleppo last week, Islamic


State fighters allegedly beheaded groups of other fighters. I asked if


it was true. Yes, we kind of beheaded some guys as well. I


believe there were maybe three or four guys that we beheaded. There


may have been more, but I am not aware of them, I am aware of the


three or four guys we beheaded and put their heads, as usual, in the


middle of the town centre. The reason for putting them in the town


centre is to demoralise or cause fear in the hearts of the spies who


are amongst us, because we know there are a lot of spies amongst us.


Islamic states say they killed Foley in response to US air strikes


against the group in Iraq. Before those strikes had even taken place,


I asked despite what the response would be to any American action


against them. His answers, at times, sounded like pure propaganda. Bring


your soldiers, new American soldiers. Your British soldiers,


bring them to ISIS. We will send them back one by one as corpses.


Also, America does not need to attack ISIS in Iraq for us to attack


them back. America started the war against Muslims along time ago. So


even if American troops do not come on our soil, we will come to an


American soil to slaughter your soldiers, the way you have


slaughtered our brothers and sisters. I asked him about other


atrocities committed by Islamic State, like the mass executions of


captured Shia soldiers in Iraq. It is principle, it is people that


oppressors. They had tortured our brothers and sisters in prison. It


is permissible for us to execute them just as it is permissible for


our brothers in the UK to execute returning soldiers from Iraq and


Afghanistan. It is permissible. This touches on one of the main fear is


articulated by the security services, but British fighters in


Syria could return to launch an attack here. I hate the UK. The only


reason I would intend to return back to the UK is because I want to go


and plant a bomb somewhere. Of the answers are shocking, but in


contrast to his angry and violent tone, for much of our interaction,


he was softly spoken. I asked him what led him down this radical path.


To be honest with you, I was living the life of the opposite Pat, I


would doss around so much and I started questioning, what am I


doing? Feeling like a lost sheep in this world, I started to question


what I was doing. So how do we confront that kind of


belief, here or in the United States. Doctor Janine Davidson, who


worked in Obama's defence, is with this,


Kermani's and Afzal Ashraf, fellow at RUSI.


and firstly, how do you react to hearing a young man talk so


callously and coldly and placing some -- no value on human life? It


is an old narrative, it is not new. It has been there for the last ten


or 15 years, since Al-Qaeda came on the scene, and what they do to


justify this callous behaviour is they say the West has conducted


operations against us with that sort of coldness and callous attitude. Of


course, it is wrong, but that is how they justify their lack of


compassion. But how do we confronted when it does have a truly shocking


flavour of no regard at all for human life or the safety of other


people? There are lots of things to do to confront it. I think the Prime


Minister mention many of the things being done, the intelligence


services are working very hard, they do a lot of work which they cannot


reveal, to counter this sort of thing. There are counter


radicalisation initiatives in many communities, but the one thing that


will definitely confront it is the concept of success. They believe


they are going to succeed. What we need to do is show that they are not


going to succeed. Al-Qaeda, ten years ago, started with a very


similar narrative. It has failed. This organisation has come out of


Al-Qaeda's failure and what they are now experiencing, the reason for


this video yesterday, was simply because they are beginning to feel


that they are failing. They now have the Peshmerga on the doorstep of


their capital, Mosul. Doctor Janine Davidson, does this look like the


start of the Islamic State failure to you? Well, I do think that the


acts that we have seen in the last day, the tragic beheading,


demonstrates the barbaric behaviour of this group on the one hand. On


the other hand, it does, I think, demonstrate a little bit of


desperation, but they are resorting to something like this, it


demonstrates that they don't have as many options as they think they


have. John McCain, for example, tonight is suggesting they should be


a significant increase in the American response and there will be


many citizens right around the world look at this video and say, yes, it


is now time for something much more drastic than supporting Kurdish


forces in northern Iraq. What would you do? Well, I do think that we


need a measured and a strong response, we need to continue to


build on this is an act of desperation, kind of what I am


saying is the air strikes and the coordinated efforts with the Iraqi


army and Kurdish forces have clearly pushed them back on their heels a


little bit. If we were to say, OK, good enough, we did the humanitarian


thing and pushed them back from the Mosul dam, they will come back,


definitely. They're recruiting is enormous, there are people flocking


to their sanctuary in Syria to join this group. As long as this group


appears to be succeeding, they will continue to attract recruits and


continue to attract groups like those in Indonesia who, in the last


couple of weeks, have both said they are going to affiliate with the IS


group. Set in concrete terms, what should we do? There is talk in


Washington of hundreds of extra troops going to Baghdad. In the long


term, the regional actors need to reject this ideology. We need a


multi regional effort. If we do not consolidate our tactical military


efforts, then we are not going to succeed. What really needs to


happen, unfortunately we have to admit that this is a group that is


on the verge of becoming a terrorist army capability wise, that operates


across the boundaries between Syria and Iraq. We consider those two


things separate conflicts. But if we are going to roll back their


momentum, we have got to get to the sanctuaries in Syria. I would


recommend we need to take out their training camps there. In terms of


David Cameron's ambition, he says he wants to defeat IS. The difficulty


is that similar ideologies have been around for more than a decade and we


have heard these kinds of things before. We have urged regional


actors to work more closely together. Is it realistic per David


Cameron to say we should defeat IS? It is a realistic expectation. The


reason IS exist is because Al-Qaeda failed. The forerunner of IS


affiliated with Al-Qaeda in 2004. It does not matter to most people what


it is called. What matters is what is actually happening on the ground?


You are right. But the point is for them to succeed they have got to


become more shocking, more appalling and more exclusive. What they have


now done is they are at war with everybody around them. This video is


shocking to us in London and Washington. There have been other


videos, hundreds of videos, of beheadings of shears, Sunnis etc.


They are killing everybody around them. They do not trust even their


own. They are paranoid about spies. This is an organisation that is


imploding ideological. Thank you both.


While the killing of an American cranks up the pressure on the west


to intensify their response, Islamic state continues its push across


parts of the Middle East, killing Christians and Muslims. Swathes of


people fleeing their homes. We have been to northern Iraq, or 200,000


refugees have arrived in the past few weeks, in search of safety.


How can a country have a future when it is losing its next generation? At


this refugee camp, children are chanting, no Iraq, no Iraq! At camps


across the region every day hundreds of desperate and exhausted Iraqis


arriving to flee IS militants. In searing heat of more than 50


degrees, they wait, unsure of what will come next. The Yazidi minority


group had felt the full force of IS militants. Many of the survivors are


separated from their families. They tell of relatives kidnapped and sold


into slavery. Refugees are spilling out into every corner of this city.


This ancient religious sect have lived in northern Iraq for thousands


of years. Now advancing Islamic State fighters have told them to


convert to Islam or die. In an abandoned building, they remember


one of their dead. This 19-year-old man was killed at a


checkpoint as his family fled their home. The family were separated when


they came under attack. Your sister is still missing?


The family have searched along the Syrian border and surrounding


villages. But they fear kidnapped by Islamic State militants. Her


father's family have lived in the region for generations. A face the


prospect of never being able to return.


-- they face the prospect. 30 Minutes Drive away, they took me


to meet their sister-in-law, injured in the firefight. She showed me her


wounds. She is still waiting for treatment.


The bullets have not been removed. But it is not just the Yazidis who


have been persecuted. The Christians, and other minority group


who have lived in Iraq for 2000 years, are also now internally


displaced people, driven from their homes. For a local volunteers, the


challenge is enormous. The local population is around


13,000. We have about 25,000 refugees. Health care is very


difficult. There are too many people without enough health care.


There is anger here. The Yazidi is in particular feel abandoned and


betrayed. Much of their anger is directed towards the Kurdish


military, the Peshmerga. Those people have been prompted by


Peshmerga. They will defend him. They will be there until the end of


their life. They do not believe what has happened because the Peshmerga


left the area. Like many Iraqis, these people feel the country holds


no future for them. Ali's mother and sister were kidnapped as they


attempted to flee to Mount Sinjar. I hear something maybe you did not


hear. They are selling my sister and mother. The other people they called


me. $600. No like Iraq. We don't like. It is a sentiment echoed


across the region. 100 miles north-west, the Peshmerga are


attempting to push back the IS advance. In the last four weeks,


this Brigadier and his soldiers every taken three nearby villages


from IS fighters. It is a constant challenge holding them back. This is


the front line. We cannot go beyond this point. IS militants are just


two kilometres away. These Kurdish forces are the only ones fighting


IS. What are they fighting for? No longer a united Iraq. Their fight is


for their own state, an independent Kurdistan.


But if there were to arise here, are you satisfied your men would be able


to defend this area? -- arrive. He rejects accusations the Peshmerga


did little to against IS brutality.


-- the Yazidis. Many villages like this are now


usually quiet. Abandoned. Even if they could, people do not want to


return. Their homes have become the front line in the war against IS.


return. Their homes have become the threat from militants, Iraq is on


the brink of becoming a failed state. Is -- it's ever deepening


social divisions and sectarian violence around doing the very


fabric of this nation. Another night, another set of


clashes between young people on the streets of an American suburb and


the police. The American Attorney General travelled to Ferguson,


Missouri today, to try to soothe tensions between the two site after


an 18-year-old was shot dead by an officer of more than a week ago.


Stand-offs between police and African-American protestors are not


new. " -- how can communities move on? Alastair Leithead has been to


Los Angeles to find the lessons of the 1992 race riots.


We are getting words this evening of rock-throwing by youths in South


Central Los Angeles. It follows the Rodney King beating.


Central Los Angeles. It follows the Central, Los Angeles. Riots,


violence and looting spread across the city. The Los Angeles Police


Department was institutionally racist. Police brutality was


endemic. The beating of Rodney King was the proof on video tape of an


everyday reality. For years people had a grievance about what they call


police abuse. And they either complained about it or didn't


complain about it, but they never saw that it was resolved or


believable. What Rodney King did on video tape validated every abuse


complaint that people ever had. They were able to point at it and say,


that happened to me. When the policemen responsible were


acquitted, the city exploded. Dozens died in six days of violence. They


say the same thing in Ferguson, Missouri today. But just two days


after Michael Brown was killed in Ferguson, a 24-year-old unarmed


African American man was shot dead in LA. The protests over his killing


have not been as big in LA. The protests over his killing


There has been little media attention.


He was in his own little world. He was special. He had special needs.


's family say he had learning difficulties. Witnesses say he was


lying face down when a police man shot him in the back. The LAPD say


there was a struggle as he went for the officer's gone. The community is


furious. Crewe we on -- we all want the same


thing. For the truth to come out. I know exactly what everybody in this


audience once. The LA police chief came to the meeting to hear


people's concerns. There were many. Have some respect.


My question is when insist copper to be named, indicted and convicted?


How many more times are we going to have to come here to hear the same


old you know what. There is a huge amount of anger here. But it is a


remarkable contrast to the reaction we have seen in Ferguson, Missouri.


This is a community meeting, with people able to take the microphone


and talk directly to the police chief.


It is really important that they understand 20, 25 views ago, we


would not have had this conversation. There would have been


an enormous amount of antipathy. The community would not have trusted us


to come to this forum. A great deal date change in the wake of the LA


riots. The LA police chief resigned. More black and Hispanic officers


were recruited. Ties with the team unity improved. There is still


tension. Daniel Solomon believes the police need to be more closely


monitored. This is how he does it. I record the police, try to hold them


accountable, restore some transparency and try and keep them


behaving themselves. Daniel filmed the protests. He thinks everybody


should record the police. Police in a lot of areas are out of control


and I am trying to encourage the people to take out their cameras,


recorder police and keep them accountable. The immediate question


is how to quickly bring to an end the violence in Ferguson, Missouri.


In LA, they used the National Guard and overwhelming force. The lesson


learned is that the long-term solution takes many, many years of


rebuilding trust and a real determination to change. With me


from Washington, DC is the civil rights leader Jesse Jackson and from


New York, the former head of the NYPD, Carnation Bernard Kerik. Mr


Jackson, you will remember the LA riots and you have been to Ferguson.


How can that community move on? I cannot hear you well. We will sort


that divine out. -- at line-out. I can hear you know. Excellent, I will


ask again. You will remember the LA riots very well and you have


travelled to Ferguson. How can the community move on and break the


stand-off between the two sides? When you have mistrust and


discontent, people feeling abandoned, it becomes like dry


chips. Then some spark of brutality triggers the explosion and you look


at the coroner's report from 50 or 60 years ago, from New York, to


Detroit, to LA, it was always the spark that unleashed the fury. In


Ferguson, you have overwhelming and excessive force reacting to a


policeman who shot a boy in broad daylight and killed him, shot him


six times, and so far he has not even been a suspect, let alone being


charged, which compounds the sense of defiance. You say the police in


Ferguson have used excessive force during the protest. Are they not


just trying to ensure the safety of the community there? It is excessive


force, to bring out the military tanks and the military armour and


the gas masks, that was unnecessary. It was sort of embarrassing, they


swept everybody, including journalists, and the next night,


they pulled everybody out, so there was no protection at all, the next


date was a curfew. It looks like the police did not know what they were


doing. They have a record. 6% of the police force are African-American,


there is a cultural divide and it is creating hostilities. This is, I


might add, that Ferguson is going to be a metaphor for urban America, and


unless there is a more comprehensive policy to deal with unemployment and


police relations, it could spread open. Bernard Kerik, Jesse Jackson


is blaming excessive police force. He said it has been the equivalent


of martial law, do you accept that? Not necessarily. I have been vocal


on this, I disagreed with the police response on the first night. You


have unarmed protesters who were obviously unarmed, protesting


peacefully, and you had a response with semiautomatic weapons aimed at


some of these people, the tactical gear that was being used and brought


out publicly, I think that incited a lot of people in the community. I


think it really did a disservice to the situation. However, we have seen


since where there has been gunfire in the crowd, Molotov cocktails


thrown, there has been enormous public and private property


destruction by the protesters. Well, we live in a society where you have


to be held accountable and the police have to respond to force with


force, and I think that is what they have done. Reverend Jackson, they


have to respond, they have no choice? Well, what is driving the


gangster? It is that this young man was shot and for seven days, they


concealed the name of the policeman who shot him in broad daylight and


then, before they released the name, they released a tape of a robbery


that had nothing to do with him being shot, because he was shot down


the street later, not as a suspect, but walking across the street in his


own neighbourhood. People saw that as an attempt to discredit the dead


man and give some privilege to the killer cop. Then two days later,


there has still been no apology, no contrition, no sense of reaching


out, it has all been by the police department, defensive. I think they


have botched an opportunity, people black and white want to come


together but I have seen in this instance, bad policing. Commissioner


Bernard Kerik, beyond the incompetence you have both suggested


in those first days of this protest, what should the police do


in a situation like this? You have experience of leading the NYPD


during a uniquely anxious time in New York at the 9/11, how should the


police approach such times public anxiety? First and foremost, I think


that they have to be more public and they have to communicate more with


the community. I didn't see the governor had publicly until I think


the third or fourth day, but it may have been longer -- out publicly.


They should be holding daily press conferences, talking to the


community daily, interacting with the community daily, but I want to


go back to one thing the Reverend talked about and that is the officer


that was involved in the shooting. I have to stress to the people


watching the show, there is a due process in this country. We live by


the Constitution. People are calling for justice, well let justice be


done with the process taking place and then let a grand jury decide


whether this person is guilty. We have crucified him, the media, the


politicians have crucified this officer, some people calling him a


murderer. That has not been determined yet. There is a process


we should follow, there are laws that have to be followed, there is


an investigation that has been thoroughly conducted by the local


state and federal authorities. Let them and a grand jury make the


determination on what happened and not these political pundits, not the


general public, not the critics. Let the process take its place, that is


the law of this country. Reverend Jackson? Michael Brown was denied


due process, the police was a judge, jury and executioner. He was


unarmed, 18 years old, in his own neighbourhood and there was no need


to shoot him down and leave him lying in the street, rotting like a


dog. Whatever the rights and wrongs of what happened, Reverend Jackson,


would it not at this moment in time be right for people to see


leadership? Would it not have been helpful for the president, not the


Attorney General, the first African-American president, to go to


Ferguson and appeal for calm? I think absence is the quiet -- do not


need absence in -- quietness in the absence of noise. I would like to


think that police Department is getting federal funds, I do not


think they should get any because they do not read the standards for


gender and race equality. The situation is simply volatile. I hope


we will calm the fears of all the people involved, I regret there has


been the tear gas as well as the Molotov cocktails, but I think the


police chiefs' lack of civility has been a big factor in driving things


out of control. Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time, we must


leave it there. Now, you know something special happens in


Edinburgh this time of year but this time tomorrow, something rather


special is happening on Newsnight. Here is Kirsty.


Tomorrow night, we live from the Edinburgh Festival, and four weeks


from the vote, the referendum is everywhere, in stand-up comedy, on


the street, taxis, and even politicians on soapboxes. Join us


with special guests including Rory Bremner, Simon Callow and a host of


others, when we put the referendum centrestage.


and Afzal Ashraf, fellow at RUSI. Behind every great man, there's a


great... Well, you know how the saying


goes. One of the greatest writers may indeed have had a great rival


behind him - well, at least in his household. In fact, in his own


stormy marriage. This is the Tolstoy we've all heard of.


I am seized by an oppressive doubt. Where in this tale is the evil that


should be avoided and where is the good that should be imitated? Who is


the villain and who is the story of the late hero of the story -- the


hero of the story? All are good and all are bad.


we've all heard of. But the woman who shared his life


and bore him 13 children, Sophia Tolstoy, is now to have her own


work in print. Her own work Has been sitting in dusty Russian


archives for over a century. How many other writers have been lost in


time in the Shadow of their other halves? If Tolstoy's wife was one of


them, who else has been a completely forgotten other half? I wouldn't say


completely forgotten, because we are starting to resurrect the


reputations of a lot of people, including the wife of the composer


Schumann. We also think of a number of people who are in the public eye,


who have always been in the public eye, part of the canon of British


literature, for example, so Mary Shelley, married to Percy Shelley.


The Brownings. They weren't always hiding behind the male Shadow. But


if they were people we have sort of heard of, are there still great


artists and writers who are somehow being completely hidden or


overshadowed by their more famous other halves? Absolutely, it goes


without saying but I think there are a lot of artists and writers and


historical figures who were men who we are not looking at because we are


so obsessed with icons, and so obsessed with re-examining the light


of the same people over and over again. Annie, you are a painter, why


do you think this happens? Is it possible sometimes in a relationship


where there is somebody who we might call a genius or a great talent,


there is just not room for anybody else? I think there is a real


tradition of believing that creative genius is a specifically male thing


and the woman's role is very much the Muse, the supporter. But


actually, in history, if you look back, write to the 16th century,


there were very successful female artists, who in that they were


hugely famous and celebrated, and, in fact, more famous than a lot of


the men. But I think the way history has been recorded, unfortunately,


there just has not been the interest in them since their death and like


Hallie said, there is the institutional reinforcement of the


idea, with us constantly seeing exhibitions of Impressionists, but


they don't include the women impressionists, to the point where


you read about them and can't believe you don't know about them,


because you have seen so many exhibitions. In terms of artistic


talent, is that anything beyond what we would normally experience because


of the vagaries of history? Whether in politics, science or other


fields? Because men had public roles while women largely didn't, they


were largely hidden. Is it different in art, even today? I think there


are lots of couples today that, interestingly, if you look at the


women, you still get this kind of accusation that the woman is somehow


feeding off the fame of the other half, but interestingly, if you look


at male couples, for example Jasper Johns and Rauschenberg, they are


both seen as successful artists, or Gilbert and George, so that is an


interesting difference. Hallie, do the less famous other halves, do


they deserve to get discovered or is it easy to blame their lack of


success on their gigantically famous spouse? I think sometimes they do


and there are a number of people who are overshadowed who we don't know


about. We know about Richard Brinsley Sheridan, who was a famous


playwright and MP, but we don't know about Lindy, who was a fantastic


soprano, who was his wife, who he did not want to perform after she


married him. He sabotaged her career? He did. There was an artist,


and impressionist woman, whose husband sabotaged her career, not


because he did not want her to be an artist but because he was


anti-Impressionism. So from a point of principle rather than envy or


wanting her to disappear. Do you think it still happens now, this


kind of challenge? think it still happens now, this


now. I doubt many women would put up with it. The women I


now. I doubt many women would put up artists who go out


now. I doubt many women would put up artists, I can't imagine any of them


putting up with this kind of sabotaged. I think it is a very


different situation now. I think you are absolutely right, women wouldn't


put up with it necessarily but in the past, women were expected to


take a back-seat. They were expected to help their shine. Even somebody


like Schumann, she supported her husband had made sure his work


like Schumann, she supported her recognised, playing it in concerts.


Sophia Tolstoy was an odd champion of her husband's work. Maybe it is


not always about being the Muse, we must leave it there. That is almost


it for tonight, but I hope you are ready for this. We leave you with a


tribute to the man regarded by many as the father of modern yoga.


work in print. Her own work B.K.S. Iyengar has died at the age


of 95. He practised yoga for eight decades


and could still do a head stand for more than half an hour until just


last year. Here he is in more supple form back in 1977, at a sprightly 59


years old. Good night.


The stories behind the day's headlines with Laura Kuenssberg. Including British jihadis, a view from the frontline in Iraq, lessons from the LA race riots and Tolstoy's unhappy family.

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