Browse content similar to Syria Vote: One Year On. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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presents a special Newsnight report on the anniversary of the Commons | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
vote against British military action in Syria. It was a year ago that | :00:00. | :00:10. | |
Parliament voted not to intervene militarily in Syria. David Cameron | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
has warned we will be fighting against Islamic State for years. But | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
how? He has increased the terror threat to the UK to severe. What | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
were the consequences of that vote? Have Britain and the US lost their | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
appetite for foreign war? And what has happened since? The movement of | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
Islamic State into Iraq and the creation of 3 million refugees. It | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
is clear that the British Parliament does not want to see military | :00:44. | :00:52. | |
action. I get that. They are Assad loyalists. President Assad himself | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
has now confirmed on Russian television that he does have | :00:59. | :01:00. | |
chemical weapons and is prepared to give them out. In a war where the | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
youngest are not just caught in the crossfire, they are targeted and | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
even tortured. Militants backed by anti`government tribal fighters | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
claimed to have taken full control of the western Iraqi city of | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
Fallujah. We are not going to put boots on the ground. This is their | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
fight. But we will help them in their fight. After four days of | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
this, the jihadis are effectively in control of Mosul, Iraq's second | :01:30. | :01:38. | |
city. Many are from the Yazidi sect, forced from their homes and now | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
trapped on mountains by the jihadists. Syria's intensifying | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
refugee crisis has surpassed today a record 3 million refugees. The | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
killer, who speaks with a British accent, send a direct message to US | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
President Obama before killing James Foley. ISIS poses a direct threat to | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
the region. David Cameron would not commit to any further military | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
involvement in the Middle East but he did so `` described the Islamic | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
State as a greater and deeper threat to our security than we have ever | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
known before. We are in the middle of a generational struggle with an | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
extremist entity that we will be fighting for years if not decades. | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
We will always take whatever action is necessary to keep the British | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
people safe at home. One year ago, the Prime Minister took a different | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
approach after chemical attacks by President Assad on his own people. | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
Parliament was recalled to approve military action in Syria only to | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
fail to get the backing of the majority of MPs. How did the | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
government misjudged the impact of that vote? And what have in fact | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
been of that decision `` what are the impacts of that decision? This | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
report contains disturbing images. How do we decide? Who do we stand up | :03:07. | :03:23. | |
for? One year ago tonight, David Cameron's plan to punish Assad for | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
using chemical weapons failed. It is clear to me that the British | :03:29. | :03:30. | |
Parliament, reflecting the views of the British people, does not want to | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
see British military action. I get out and the government will act | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
accordingly. If we did not strike them, what now? With danger is more | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
complex and more intense. David Cameron became the first prime | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
minister in many generations to lose a vote on foreign policy. Ministers | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
were astonished. Consensus was smashed. But their position had been | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
based on not one but a series of miscalculations, the biggest | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
perhaps, a misunderstanding of the recent past. | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
MPs minds were clogged with memories of their vote for Operation Shock | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
and Awe on evidence that was wrong. We cannot ignore the lessons of the | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
calamitous Iraq. If we do not take action, and it probably means | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
military action, then the credibility of the international | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
community will be greatly damaged. We all know how easy it is to get | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
into military action and how difficult it is to get out. The | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
legacy of going to war in Iraq on a false premise cast a long shadow. | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
Some of us in Parliament are in no mood or smoke and mirrors when it | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
comes to these things. There was not doubt about Assad's brutality. By | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
chance, just as MPs voted, these images of an attack with chemical | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
weapons were shown for the first time. But the question was how to | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
punish the crossing of the West's Red Line? The government and | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
Washington want to side with the rebels. Some of these rebels | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
included ISIS. Some of them included groups linked to Al`Qaeda. The idea | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
of intervening on their behalf was utter madness. Even on the morning | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
of the vote, one minister at the Cabinet table suggested they would | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
be no problem with the debate. But party managers and others were | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
increasingly aware. I had not had enough time to get the votes. The | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
first time Parliament or the party assembled as a group was just before | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
the debate started, so the party whips were actually hampered from | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
the usual operations of moving around the lobbies, bringing | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
colleagues and speaking to individuals personally, and so | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
again, it comes back to this shortage of time to actually marshal | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
the party as a cohesive group. David Cameron had banked on Ed Miliband's | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
support, however, and given private concessions. But Julia Schoch, | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
Labour decided instead on their own, more cautious motion. This was an | :06:09. | :06:16. | |
important and significant moment. Labour wanted to demonstrate its | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
knees and it also wanted to show that if push came to shove, it was | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
not going to bowl at making a difficult decision `` demonstrate | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
its unease. On paper, Labour's position was not so different to | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
that of the government's. But in practice, it killed off David | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
Cameron's plan. By the time he entered the Commons, a member of his | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
team had in his pocket a speech to acknowledge defeat. Nothing had been | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
written in the case of a victory. It was Ed Miliband's manoeuvres that | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
something vote. The government saw it as treachery. The eyes to | :06:59. | :07:07. | |
rewrite... The nose to the left. Ed Miliband's move did not force David | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
Cameron to be this explicit. We have to listen to Parliament. Parliament | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
spoke. Parliament, I think, made a very clear view, which is that it | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
does not want British military action, so we will proceed on that | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
basis. He says the threat from the Middle East now is deeper, stronger, | :07:27. | :07:39. | |
it is harder to act. It did limit the government's power but that is | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
not necessarily a bad thing. This is a parliamentary democracy. That is a | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
good thing, given our past errors over the last decade. The fact that | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
the UK backed off and the US then followed them just illustrated to | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
these militia groups that, hang on, the West is hesitating here, here is | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
a real opportunity. And they got into it. This defeat did more than | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
prevent the UK's action. Both sides agree that it gave Parliament | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
strength but reduced the UK's power. One year on, with threats | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
more complex and more dangerous, any leader must work harder for | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
permission to intervene or take a bigger and frankly unlikely gamble: | :08:21. | :08:29. | |
Act now and ask later. The ironic inheritance of the vote was | :08:30. | :08:37. | |
reticence. When one year on, risks to our safety and the Middle East's | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
safety only grows. Thank you for joining us. Lord Ashdown, first of | :08:43. | :08:57. | |
all, at the time of that last vote, you said that you are ashamed of | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
Parliament. Do you still think it was a bad decision? Yes, | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
undoubtedly. For the very first time in my memory, Britain refused to | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
stand up for international rules. It was not about intervening in Iraq. | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
To have provided weapons for the rebels in Iraq would not have been a | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
wise ring because you would not have known into whose hands those weapons | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
would have gone, and subsequent events have shown that. But when | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
Assad crossed a Red Line, broke international law that had been in | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
existence since 1925, that had restrained Hitler and had restrained | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
Stalin, and the British Parliament decided to do nothing to stand up | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
for international law, I think that was a shameful moment. I think what | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
has happened subsequently, the American taking action together with | :09:50. | :09:58. | |
France away from Britain forced Assad to come to the table and | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
negotiate on the issue of chemical weapons. But elsewhere in the Middle | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
East, the failure to act has convinced people that no matter what | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
the nature of the transgression, we will not act. Yes, it was a bad | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
move, and on wise move, and for the UK, a shameful one. There you are, | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
Lord West. This shameful vote has allowed the rise of Islamic State. | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
I'm delighted that 12 months ago we did not start bombing Syria with no | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
clear aim of what the endgame was, no clear aim of where we were going. | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
In terms of what ifs we could have an entire Syria controlled by ISIS | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
if we had been doing that. We do not know how it would have gone. I think | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
it was absolutely right that we did not charge into bombing them without | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
any clear view of what our aim is. And far from being shameful, I think | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
it was absolutely right. What I did not like was the final motion that | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
was to dust in Parliament. It was watered down so much. Instead of a | :10:59. | :11:08. | |
yes or no, it became much more fuzzy. Liam Fox, you argued very | :11:09. | :11:16. | |
strongly for intervening. Do you think, as a country, we are | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
diminished? I think that our influence has been diminished and I | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
think people will wonder what our word is worth. I think Lord Ashdown | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
is 100% correct. It was not about intervening in the civil war in | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
Syria, it was about a response to a breach of international law, a clear | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
and singular breach with regards the use of chemical weapons. What we | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
were asking for was a limited response that would send a clear | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
signal that the use could not be tolerated again. The fact that we | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
did not send that signal sent a message to people who had Commons in | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
the region that they could use them with impunity. That is the shameful | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
moment. `` the people who had chemical weapons in the region. What | :12:00. | :12:07. | |
about intervening with Iraq? I don't think that is entirely true because | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
I think there was an understanding within the government that the | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
Labour Party would give support until the end of the day. I think | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
that was a dreadful mistake by Ed Miliband. Should there be in | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
military intervention now and would it be impossible without | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
parliamentary approval? I think that there should be intervention to deal | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
with ISIS. What kind of action? Is ISIS is the threat we believe it to | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
be, we have to stop it. We have to stop the sale of oil on the black | :12:38. | :12:39. | |
market from which it derives its money. We need to disrupt the | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
command and control and supply lines of ISIS, and that will require air | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
strikes. British airstrikes? As well as those from the US. It is also | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
important that the West provides close air cover for any ground | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
offensive counter`attack by the Iraqis or the Kurds. Paddy Ashdown, | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
Liam Fox says very clearly that if asked, we should be militarily | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
involved in airstrikes. Do you think it is possible to do this without | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
Parliament's say`so? One will every single possibility of military | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
intervention be run past Westminster? If we are going to | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
engage British military forces and put them in harm's way, it is proper | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
that Parliament be consulted. I profoundly disagree with Liam Fox, | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
by the way. We have to get away from this idea which says that in | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
response to everything in the Middle East, our answer is bombs and | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
rockets. There is a useful limited forms of air support to protect, for | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
instance, the Kurdish state. There is also a use for such military | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
action as would be consistent with an integrated policy. In my view, | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
what is happening in the Middle East now is a very powerful, terrible but | :13:56. | :14:02. | |
probably reasonably temporary convulsion but it will change the | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
borders of the Middle East and what we need is an integrated policy of | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
diplomacy with Turkey, for example, with Iran, to put pressure on Saudi | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
Arabia to stop supporting the jihadis. And that is probably as | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
important if not more so than military action. But it is the | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
co`ordination of those ritual have the effect. | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
Is the United States say they would like Britain to share the burden of | :14:29. | :14:40. | |
limited involvement to reduce the military capability of ISIS and give | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
forces a chance to walk. That network. If we went to a Nato summit | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
and did not support the Americans but the manned that the rest of Nato | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
pulls its weight, it would be bought for Britain to have that position. | :14:54. | :15:01. | |
Should there be a clearly defined, limited strike after the Nato | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
meeting, if we are asked, we should go ahead with strikes. Is it | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
possible to have a limited, clearly defined mission in the Middle East? | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
We need a clear strategy and endgame of where we want to go and we have | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
to employ what we have at our disposal in terms of diplomatic, | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
leaning on those within the region, stopping money flows from Qatar and | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
Saudi Arabia, more pressure on prevent mechanisms in terms of | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
radicalisation. This needs to be better co`ordinated. There is a | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
change about thinking it is easy, let's fire some missiles and drop | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
bombs, it will solve the problem. It doesn't solve the problem. | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
Sometimes, you do have to use force. I have been involved in using force. | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
It has got to be clearly thought out and you mustn't do it in a haphazard | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
way. I think the attack on Syria one year ago would have been haphazard. | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
You can't wrap on the knuckles. It does have to be proportionate. It | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
has to be limited. It has to be part of a wider strategy. It has to be | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
diplomatic, financial, political, but if we require a military element | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
to complete the strategy, we should not be an unwilling to do it. Thank | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
you all very much indeed. So, what are the guiding principles of the | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
policy on intervention in foreign conflicts if there are any? 15 years | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
since Cossiga, then Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, then Iraq. `` Kosovo. | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
Was last year a turning point in the rest of the world was that here is | :16:35. | :16:42. | |
our editor, Mark Urban. `` rest of the world? | :16:43. | :16:55. | |
Historians and think tanks have been obsessed at the UK's global status. | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
50 years ago, an American politician said Britain had found an empire but | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
not found a role. Actually, Britain has had a well`defined role over the | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
past half`century. That is acting as America's deputy in upholding | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
international security. In the past, the past year, that has become | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
highly uncertain as the British government has stepped back from | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
foreign wars. I was quite surprised at how much the rest of the world | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
took notice of what happened in Parliament that day because in the | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
Gulf and even in east Asia and Japan, it was said, is Britain's | :17:37. | :17:43. | |
serious about defence? Are you guys withdrawing from your space in world | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
affairs. What seemed at the time to be a domestic blip, a serious one, | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
in our political process, was perceived by the rest of the world | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
as a tipping point in Britain's decline as a world power. A few | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
weeks back, a senior special forces officer I met told me that the SAS | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
weren't operating in Iraq because of the parliamentary vote. If they had | :18:10. | :18:12. | |
got into combat, it might be deemed illegal. What would they be doing | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
once the commitment in Afghanistan had wound down? More training | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
missions, he suggested and Britain would rely more on the soft power of | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
the international development department. The forces, intelligence | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
agencies and Foreign Office have geared themselves to the | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
government's view that absent a 9/11 scale event, Britain has lost its | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
will to confront enemies overseas. It would be realistic of me to say | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
that I would not expect, except in extreme circumstances, I would not | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
expect to see a manifestation of great appetite for plunging into | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
another long period of engagement anytime soon. So, the government has | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
rushed for the door in Afghanistan, drawing down as quickly as possible | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
in my shunning significant commitment to follow on training for | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
the Afghan forces. We have seen a reduction in British commitment, | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
evidenced by the British extreme reluctance to get involved with the | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
commitment to a training, advising and assisting mission in Afghanistan | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
when the ISAF mission concludes at the end of this year. What we have | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
seen is countries like Germany and Italy stepping forward to fill the | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
gap in supporting the Americans which Britain traditionally did. One | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
year ago, the result of that British vote reverberated across the | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
Atlantic, feeding doubt into the US Congress, which then declined to | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
support US strikes on Syria. Britain had gone from being the dependable | :19:49. | :19:55. | |
partner to a more questionable ally. I think the vote in Parliament | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
impact of the President because within a couple of days he decided | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
to seek a vote in Congress which he hadn't planned to do here. That | :20:04. | :20:10. | |
faded away. It was little more than a ripple in the long`term | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
relationship with written and I think when the president gets is | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
strategy together he will hope as I will be British will be by our site | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
again as they have been so often `` Britain. Can there be a new concept | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
about when it is right to intervene? Tony Blair might have | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
gone in with the Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan but he did also take | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
unilateral military action in Sierra Leone and he favoured the concept of | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
what is called humanitarian intervention. It is believed to be | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
the concept of responsibility to protect in cases where ethnic | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
lensing or genocide were imminent. `` ethnic cleansing. | :20:49. | :20:57. | |
Is the Prime Minister, who has marched his troops down the | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
interventionist deal, now at the mercy of events marking them back up | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
again? `` Hill. The RAF is flying over Iraq once more but is dropping | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
aid, not bombs, for the moment anyway. The government insists it | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
has not been asked yet to join American air strikes. The signs are | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
that this government doesn't want to take major military action in this | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
crisis no matter whether that is independently or as resident over | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
my's junior partner. `` President Obama's. Britainwant a role in the | :21:33. | :21:39. | |
world it is just uncertain about how it wants to carve it. | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
Mark Urban to discuss this. I am joined by the former chief of | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
general staff, prevents, Professor for the armour and professor at the | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
London School of economics. Are we living in a world in which | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
Britain is unwilling or unable to exercise our military power? No, I | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
don't think we are. Your conversation earlier this evening in | :22:07. | :22:08. | |
the programme quite rightly focused on the debate in Parliament one year | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
ago. I was one of those who spoke against intervention and bombing at | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
that stage as Lord West also did. The issue then was an unclear issue | :22:21. | :22:27. | |
which could potentially have asked bombing in a complex civil war and | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
the consequences of what we had done weren't clear. We were right to vote | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
against that. It caused a check on American ambitions and lead the | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
Russians to get involved `` led. It led to the removal of most Syria and | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
legal weapons. Once upon a time, America was the World Cup is a | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
policeman. No longer. We aren't the lieutenant willing to do anything. | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
`` world's policeman. Until we understand the problems that Iraq at | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
us, we can't move onto a different kind of world peace? I think what | :23:06. | :23:12. | |
Iraq and Afghanistan demonstrated is that you don't have the knowledge or | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
ability to create specific political outcomes like looking democracy in | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
either of those countries. We still have a lot of power and a lot of | :23:23. | :23:29. | |
national interest. I think that the situation in Iraq and Syria have | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
deteriorated to the point that we have to be hardheaded right now | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
about protecting some core interest. I think that you can | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
define a strategy fairly simply, that we, the United States, Britain | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
and other Western powers up until this point act as offshore | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
balances. Our objective should be to prevent any of these bad actors like | :23:53. | :23:59. | |
ISIS will like the Assad government in Syria from dominating the region | :24:00. | :24:07. | |
`` or. If you move your gaze to the Russia and Ukraine crisis and | :24:08. | :24:09. | |
Ukraine to not calling for membership of Nato to come under | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
that Umbro, `` tonight `` Dumbrell, is that the conflict, where the | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
danger is that Putin's ambition threatens us all? `` umbrella. I | :24:22. | :24:29. | |
think that Ukraine is a more serious threat, not only to us but to other | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
countries that are important to us. Anything going on in the spreading | :24:33. | :24:48. | |
Sunni `Shia war. Putin is supporting Russians outside Russia, it will be | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
destabilising in Europe. Nato needs to get serious on the military | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
alliance. It hasn't for 20 years. I think it is difficult. It is | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
difficult to defeat the Islamic State through war fighting. I don't | :25:05. | :25:12. | |
think that's possible. I think it is key... It might not be possible to | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
create democracy but it is key to have an inclusive political | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
arrangement. Politics is key to dealing with these things. When you | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
look at what is happening in Europe, with Putin and what the | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
threat looks like, does Nato have to step up to the challenge again | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
western market do we have to stand nose to nose and show our power? I | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
think it is terribly dangerous to do that but at the same time again we | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
are talking in geopolitical terms whereas if you look at what is | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
happening in eastern Ukraine, what was a democracy movement is being | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
turned into an ethnic conflict with displacement and human rights | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
violations. We need to shift the discourse from geopolitics to | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
humanitarian issues. Thank you all very much indeed. I am afraid that | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
is all we have time for from this Newsnight special. | :26:11. | :26:18. | |
Hello. We lose the influence of low pressure to be replaced with high | :26:19. | :26:25. | |
pressure as we head into the | :26:26. | :26:26. |