Browse content similar to 02/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Jihadists in Iraq behead a second American journalist. Last week | :00:08. | :00:15. | |
President Obama said he didn'ted yet have a strategy for dealing with | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
Islamic State, will this now concentrate his mind. The Islamic | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
State made Sotloff deliver a message to President Obama direct into the | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
camera before murdering him. But a stronger American or British | :00:29. | :00:30. | |
military response may be just what they are trying to provoke. Here in | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
Iraq the question has been why attack Islamic State here and not | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
across the border in Syria. Well that question may now be provided | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
with an answer. The former US Ambassador to NATO will join us. | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
Those against Scottish independence used to have a lead of 20 points | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
over the nationalists. Now it is down to six, how did they manage to | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
throw away such a commanding lead? We ask Better Together's Jim Murphy. | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
Also tonight: Some other folk maybe have lived a nice life and enjoyed | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
themselves, spent their money, had holidays, and they still get the | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
same treatment that my mum gets, but my mum is having to pay for it. A | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
first look at a major new report into how we should manage care for | :01:23. | :01:37. | |
the elderly in the 21st century. They did it once by gruesome video, | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
it was probably only matter of time before they did it again. Two weeks | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
after beheading James Foley, Islamic State tonight revealed it murdered a | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
second US journalist, Time Magazine's Sotloff, another barbaric | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
beheading, another unwatchable video, the same British accent | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
behind the mask and the knife. He claimed a British hostage will be | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
murdered next and unless America called off its attack on IS | :02:03. | :02:14. | |
positions. Gatehouse is in Erbil in Iraq. IS are doing this because they | :02:15. | :02:24. | |
want America to stop attacks, is it likely that America will widen | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
attacks into Syria? It is unlikely America will be provoked into any | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
kneejerk reaction. They knew Sotloff was being held and they knew his | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
life was in danger. Whilst President Obama said they didn't have a | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
strategy in place, what he most likely meant by that is they hadn't | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
decided which strategy to follow yet, and they certainly didn't have | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
a strategy that they were willing to share publicly yet. I think it is | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
unlikely they will be provoked into anything rash, there certainly will | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
be a lot more pressure on President Obama to readdress the balance, as | :02:55. | :03:02. | |
it were, the balance of his policy of hitting IS here inside Iraq and | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
not inside Syria. This is effectively now one war. I have seen | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
on the ground the dramatic effects that US air strikes against IS have | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
had there. Not only have they held IS away from this city here, Erbil, | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
which did a few weeks ago look like it might be seriously threatened, | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
but only yesterday some American air strikes managed to break the siege | :03:23. | :03:32. | |
around the south from here that was under siege for three months by | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
Islamic State, and the Americans bombing there, in support of a very | :03:38. | :03:39. | |
unlikely coalition of not only the Iraqi army and Kurdish Peshmerga, | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
but also Shia militias that are funded and supported by Iran. Those | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
air strikes had a very dramatic effect in breaking that siege almost | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
immediately. So the pressure, I think, to do something similar in | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
Syria will certainly be on. That could be the explanation for the | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
latest atrocity from the Islamic State, that the American air strikes | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
are having a real effect, that they are even losing ground, that they | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
had gained until the American air strikes came in, backed up by on the | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
ground forces from local competents? That's certainly true. They have | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
been losing ground here in Iraq, where they haven't really been | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
losing ground is across the border in Syria. I was there in | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
Kurdish-controlled northern Syria last week. I was on the Kurdish | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
frontlines with IS, and while the Kurdish fighters there are doing a | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
pretty competent job with the limited resources they have of | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
keeping Islamic State out of their territory and holding them at bay, | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
certainly the Kurds don't have the resources to dent Islamic State any | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
further than that. Commanders there told me they would welcome any | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
support they could get from the Americans or frankly whoever else, | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
in their battle with the Islamic State. They have been going at it | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
for over two years now, and the Kurds and frankly everyone else know | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
that the Kurd are not going to be able to Islamic State on their own. | :05:05. | :05:15. | |
All eyes on Washington and London for a response. A | :05:16. | :05:24. | |
This second message closely follows the pattern of the one released a | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
fortnight ago, showing the last moments of James Foley. Some topical | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
references suggest this one was done recently. The hooded man beside the | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
captive also seems to be the same British accented figure as in the | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
Foley video. I'm back Obama and I am beak because of your foreign policy | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
towards the Islamic State, and continuing the bombings. The Obama | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
administration in Washington reacted swiftly to the second piece of | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
choreographed horror. We have seen reports of a video that purports to | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
be the murder of US citizen Sotloff by Islamic State, we will work to | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
determine the authenticity, if the video is genuine, we are sickened by | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
this brutal attack taking the life of another American citizen, our | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
hearts go out to the Sotloff family. The US has mounted 120 aair strikes | :06:25. | :06:32. | |
against IS. Two-thirds around the Mosul dam. The question now is | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
whether they will hit the group in Syria. The Foley beheading video was | :06:36. | :06:46. | |
thought to be filmed south of Raqqa the main Syrian base. The question | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
of whether to hit targets in Syria is still in the White House and | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
leaving President Obama adrift. We haven't a strategy yet what I have | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
seen in some of the news reports suggests that folks are getting a | :07:03. | :07:09. | |
little further ahead of where we are at than we currently are. Sotloff's | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
family gathered this evening at their home in Florida where they | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
were said to be grieving privately. Today's news followed all manner of | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
pleas for mercy, including those of the journalist's mother, Shirley. | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
Stephen has no control over the actions of the US Government. He's | :07:27. | :07:34. | |
an innocent journalist. I have always learned that you can grant | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
amnesty, I ask you to please release my child. Britain has already | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
deployed tornadoes to Turkey for operations over Iraq. So far it has | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
just been reconnaissance missions, will they now drop bombs. Threats | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
tonight by ISIS against a British hostage makes the Government's | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
decision even harder. The question always is of course about military | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
action, are you satisfied that to take military action will leave | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
things better than before. Can it be proportionate, can you be | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
sufficiently targeted so as not to cause that terrible euphamism | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
"collateral damage". Will it be effective. In Iraq there have been | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
small gains against ISIS this week. The question for Britain and America | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
is whether expanding their military operations could win further | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
tactical success, at the expense of giving the Jihadists the battle | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
against the west they crave. Our reporter Secunder Kermani has been | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
in touch with a number of British Jihadists fighting with Islamic | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
State over the past week. What have you been hearing about what they are | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
saying about the latest video? I have been in touch with two British | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
members of Islamic State this evening. They both support Islamic | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
State's actions here. They say the killing of Sotloff was justified | :09:03. | :09:10. | |
because according to them that America had the opportunity to | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
negotiate with IS and agree to stop attacking IS positions in Iraq. They | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
say the killing of Sotloff was justified Islamically, despite under | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
most interpretations of Islamic law Sotloff as a journalists would have | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
been considered a non-competent. Do they think by beheading American | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
journalists they will change American policy? The two men I was | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
speaking to they seemed to relish the prospect of greater western | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
military intervention in Iraq. They want to see partitioned American | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
troops on the ground in the region, because quite frankly they say they | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
want the opportunity to fight them and kill them. As we heard from | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
Erbil there, they are also suffering from these American attacks. This | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
could also be a sign of weakness? Well of course, I mean everything | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
they say must be treated with a bit of caution. There is inevitably an | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
element of bravado there. It seems to me that they see this as a sort | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
of ultimate showdown that is inevitable of a fight between the | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
west and the Islamic State. They think it is inevitable? And the | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
British accent again, are we any closer to knowing who this person | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
is? Apparently it seems it is the same man who appeared in the video | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
of the murder of James Foley a few weeks back. The British IS members | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
that I have been speaking to say they don't know who he is. They do | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
say it is not any of the people who have been named in the British media | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
so far. But they say his identity is being closely guarded by the | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
internal Security Services of the Islamic State, the Amniate. They | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
have their only internal security? They are able to keep a secret, the | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
British men I spoke to said they hadn't seen the video and were not | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
aware of it. I'm joined now by Roy Stewart, the Tory MP who chairs the | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
Commons Defence Select Committee, and we're joined by the former | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
United States permanent representative to NATO. How should | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
America respond to this latest atrocity? I think to choose the | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
words of President Obama we need a strategy. We need to actually think | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
about what are the appropriate goals that we need to have to wrap up what | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
is truly an amazingly brutal, evil force in Syria and Iraq that is | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
destablising the region, threatening allies in the region and a grave | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
threat to our own societies. I think in order to set a goal of | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
eliminating ISIS we are going to have to work with a lot of regional | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
players, especially Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Turkey, Jordan, the Iraqi | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
forces and Kurdistan, in order to go after ISIS. I think we want to | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
minimise the degree to which there are direct western boots on the | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
ground. But it will take a concerted effort, which will require American | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
leadership to help pull it together. It will require a willingness to put | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
military force in play. What should the British reaction should be? | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
Britain needs to follow very, very carefully this American debate. If | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
President Obama is currently saying that he doesn't have a strategy, we | :12:15. | :12:22. | |
have to be very cautious. But the key question is this very different | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
to what we dealt with in 2007/2008. Is the Islamic State fundamentally | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
different from Al-Qaeda/Iraq? If it isn't what are the options. It looks | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
like it is, it looks like it will control a bit of territory? Al-Qaeda | :12:38. | :12:46. | |
were guests in Afghan stance? We pumped in over $100 billion US a | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
year and hundreds of thousands of troops on the ground and four years | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
later it is back again. The problem the President is facing is he's | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
looking at dealing with a bigger threat with fewer resources and | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
trying to do without boots on the ground. What should the strategy be, | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
he says he doesn't have one, should he for example extend the bombing, | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
which actually seems to be quite effective against IS in Iraq. Should | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
he extend that into Syria where they are also based? I think bombing | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
alone is not sufficient but a necessary part. I think you need to | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
have an approach towards supporting a moderate rebellion inside Syria to | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
try to bring about a change of regime that is going to get Assad | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
out of power, which is part of what has permented this ISIS -- fermented | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
this ISIS rebellion. That is Then you need to go after ISIS itself. | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
The biggest threat at the moment is ISIS, we need to be going after that | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
on both sides of the border. ISIS doesn't respect any differences of | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
the border. Assad attacked on the other side of the border, the Iraqi | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
army is prepared to do its part inside Iraq, but that is a weak | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
army. They need the additional support. We need the states of the | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
region, and again I emphasise the key Sunni states that we have worked | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
with in the past, sometimes called allies, but Saudi Arabia, the UAE, | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
Turkey, Jordan, in order to create a regional framework for getting | :14:18. | :14:19. | |
control back over the territories, as Mr Stewart was saying the Sunni | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
tribes inside Iraq were the key to up ending Al-Qaeda in Iraq before. I | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
think they will be the key to up ending ISIS as well. They don't | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
relish being ruled by this medieval group. There is a point resonating | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
with a lot of people in the west, why aren't those in the region who | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
have most to fear from IS do more about it? Do we have any evidence | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE, Jordan, are going to get involved in | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
this? This is the big fundamental question. Of course ideally Saudi, | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
Turkey, Iran, others will be motivated, but so far they haven't | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
been. The fighters are often moving through Turkey. There is evidence | :15:03. | :15:04. | |
that some of the funding going into the Islamic State has come out of | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
the gulf states. We have a hope that they are going to feel that these | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
people are a danger to themselves. But our experience unfortunately | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
across the world is regional states often find that difficult to | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
believe. So they will make proper statement about it but getting them | :15:20. | :15:21. | |
to do something will be more difficult. The President has been | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
remarkably reluctant to get involved in this. At every opportunity he has | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
put one step forward and then tried to take two steps back. But in that | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
is he perhaps reflecting the mood of the American people? That they don't | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
want to get involved? It is always hard to judge that. I think the | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
President is reflecting his own instincts, his political calculus. | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
He wants to be the President that pulls the US out of wars and doesn't | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
send the military in as a way of engaging the United States in | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
conflict. The American people, I think, indeed fatigue bid the wars | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
in Iraq and Afghanistan, but at the same time terrified by what they see | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
on television with these beheadings, and the threats to the United States | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
from all the Islamist groups. Frankly we see a chaotic situation | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
around the world, whether it is in Russia or in Iraq and Syria that we | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
are talking about now. It seems to be spring out of control. I think | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
the Americans are actually also looking for a strategy that they can | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
believe in that's going to help try to keep the country safe. And the | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
British people are war weary as well, they hate what is happening | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
but they have no appetite for deep involvement beyond air strikes if | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
that? That's true and it is also true, as the ambassador said that we | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
have a lot of experience in trying to deal with these kinds of | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
insurgies, but the things that the United States and Britain feel is | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
necessary, an effective state in Baghdad, a good regional solution, | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
these things so far doesn't exist. The chances of a caliphate, this | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
time next year? Effectively what they have set up is pretty much | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
something close to that in eastern Syria and Iraq. Now just over two | :17:08. | :17:15. | |
weeks until the referendum in Scotland, the latest poll suggest | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
the pro-independence campaign may be closing the gap on its rivals. The | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
latest poll for YouGov suggests once you take out the undecided voters | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
47% would vote yes, 53% no. The majority for the union but a lot | :17:32. | :17:33. | |
smaller than it was. Only a month ago, there has been a lot of debate | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
about how prepared Scotland is for the consequences of a yes vote. What | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
are the implication force the rest of the UK. Here is the BBC Economics | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
Editor. Could it be the end of a not always | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
blissful marriage, divorce. The tearing up of the Union Flag and the | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
acts of union that have bound Scotland together with the rest of | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
the UK for more than 300 years. Up until now all the debate, all the | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
aggro about Scottish independence have been really around what it | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
moons for Scotland. But -- means for Scotland. But with the polls | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
narrowing the penny has dropped and actually if Scotland were to | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
break-away from the rest of the UK, that would have profound implication | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
force those who live in Northern Ireland, Wales and England. Now it | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
wasn't just the penny dropping, the pound fell very sharply today, to | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
its lowest level against the dollar since march. March. The bound fell | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
because currency markets are the most sensitive to political | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
uncertainty, it tells you that political uncertainty for the UK has | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
gone up. As a result the largest mover, the largest UK assets, price | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
movement today was sterling. It would take months if not years to | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
difficulty up the assets and liabilities of the UK, what impact | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
would the uncertainty of all of that have on the economy? I think it | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
would create uncertainty, because as you say we wouldn't know who would | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
end up with what, and as a result of that you would probably find some | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
business investment put on hold during that period, the economy | :19:12. | :19:13. | |
would be weaker. It would make it much harder for the Bank of England | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
to hike interest rates just at the point in time when at the moment | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
they are indicating that is when they would start. So if Scotland | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
does break-away, how will the assets and liabilities of this country be | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
divided up? How difficult will it be to reach a settlement? | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
You are a Cabinet Secretary and head of the Civil Service, if you were | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
facing the prospect of having to separate Scotland from the rest of | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
the UK, how would you be feeling today? I would be feeling pretty | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
daunted and thinking this was a bigger task than I ever had to face. | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
It is a major exercise trying to unpick a constitutional settlement | :19:53. | :20:00. | |
built up over 300 years. Alex Salmond hopes and believes the | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
negotiations on separation would not take more than 18 months, is that | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
realistic? I very much doubt it. He wants it done in a year-and-a-half, | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
the rest of the UK Government why should they dance to that deadline. | :20:15. | :20:22. | |
I'm reminded of the made up Chinese proverb, "he who has the shortest | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
deadline needs the deepest pocket". What about the thousands and | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
thousands of civil servants based in Scotland who work for the whole of | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
the UK, who would happen to them? I don't know the exact number but it | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
is in tens of thousands, we, for many years ran a programme of | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
dispersal. You remember the Hardman Report, and we deliberately placed | :20:45. | :20:51. | |
more, a disproportionate number of civil servants in Scotland, in HMRC, | :20:52. | :20:59. | |
DWP, all with major operations in Scotland. Way beyond what was needed | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
to serve Scotland. They would all have to be repatriated. Leaving just | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
the share that is needed for the 10% of the Scottish population. And what | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
will be the collateral damage through separation, in Northern | :21:18. | :21:26. | |
Ireland, Scotland and Wales and politics. If the vote was lost that | :21:27. | :21:37. | |
would be a massive humiliation, and some Tory MPs have said to me they | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
fear he would have to stand down. It is not only the Prime Minister who | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
is anxious about Scots voting to separate. The implications for Ed | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
Miliband and Labour would be seriously bad. Since the Second | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
World War Labour and the Tories have won an equal number of general | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
elections, and according to research done by the BBC, without Scotland | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
Labour would have won two fewer. The thing is over the past 20 years | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
Labour in that place has become even more dependant on MPs elected in | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
Scotland. So without Scotland Labour's ability to win elections in | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
the rest of the UK would be seriously impaired. | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
Central London, Westminster, calm waters for now, but if the Scots | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
decide they have enough of marriage to the rest of the UK, my goodness | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
there will be mayhem. That was the consequences for the | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
rest of the UK of Scottish independent. There. There is a | :22:40. | :22:46. | |
longer version on iPlayer. I spoke to Murphy from the Better -- | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
Jim Murphy from the Better Together campaign, I asked why were the polls | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
showing in favour of breaking up the union? I would rather be in | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
discussions about our arguments and our report than the nationalists | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
that are lagging in the poll. In one poll they have closed the gap but we | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
are in the lead with the stronger argument. Why is it not cutting | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
through with your own voters, a lot more Labour voters are saying now | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
that they would vote for independence than were telling the | :23:18. | :23:20. | |
pollsters only two or three months ago. Why are you losing the argument | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
among your own people? We're not losing the argument. The vast | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
majority of Labour voters are voting no, but we have more work to do. One | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
of the arguments is the SNP have campaigned for two years and they | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
have failed to turn patriotic Scots into nationalist Scots. Rather than | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
convince patriots to become nationalists they have tried to | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
scare Scots into being yes voters. I have heard you make the argument | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
many times, but the polls are moving against you, it is not working. | :23:50. | :23:51. | |
Downing Street has said tonight there is no need to change the | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
Better Together campaign, do you agree with that? Absolutely. Mitch | :23:56. | :24:03. | |
Alastair Darling is doing a great job. He is a brilliant job, a lead | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
of 20 points now down to six, which definition of brilliance would that | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
cover? Alastair Darling is leading the campaign effectively. He has | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
brought together a Labour Party, Conservative Party and Liberal | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
Democrats who normally punch one another in the nose, Mitch Darling's | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
personality of being a bridge builder or conciliator has been a | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
great advantage to this campaign. Also other permties such as Gordon | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
Brown -- personalities and Gordon Brown and John Reid out campaigning | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
on behalf of the Labour Party and Better Together, I'm confident we | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
can win, we have a lot of work to do. I would rather be ahead in the | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
polls than behind like the nationalists. Whatever the poll | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
rating they welcome it, it is part of nationalism. We are determined | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
and we can win this. The stakes are especially high for you and your | :24:59. | :25:01. | |
party. If Scotland goes independent it will be much more difficult for | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
you to form a Labour Government ever again, not ever again, but more | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
difficult for you to have an overall majority in England and the rest of | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
the UK, correct? You won't like me saying that, I don't really care | :25:14. | :25:15. | |
about that, this is about whether the UK, the most successful of all | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
union nations in the world has ever known whether it survives and we | :25:22. | :25:24. | |
stick together. Scotland's place within the UK, a place within the | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
European Union and the world. You would rather have a United Kingdom | :25:29. | :25:35. | |
and no Labour not in the rest of the UK, is that what you are saying? Of | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
course Andrew, that is the type of question that people ask all the | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
time, they have asked over the past two years of the referendum. That is | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
not what I'm saying and you know that's not what I'm saying. I'm | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
saying of course there are implication for all political | :25:49. | :25:50. | |
parties, political leaders and every politician, but every politician is | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
temporary, every Government is temporary, independence is forever. | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
Therefore what happens to the Labour Party, what happens to the Tory | :25:58. | :25:59. | |
Party, what happens to the Liberal Democrats and all of the others, it | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
is important but a secondary importance in deciding this historic | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
outcome as to whether Scotland remains part of the UK. If Scotland | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
votes for independence on September 18th, will run again as an MP for | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
your constituency in May? Of course I would. But there is a complication | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
here which your viewers know which is referendum day is September 18th, | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
we have a general election next year with Independence Day not scheduled | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
until March 2016. There is a peculiar arrangement we would have a | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
House of Commons for a year if that was to happen. You would be an MP | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
for what would be becoming a foreign country? It would be a peculiar set | :26:42. | :26:44. | |
of arrangements but those are the rules. We don't have to do that or | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
take that unusual and unnecessary risk here in Scotland. The fact is | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
we can stick together. Politicians on all sides up here are much more | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
worried about what happens to the people who work in financial | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
service, who rely on the connections across the United Kingdom, sharing a | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
common currency and I'm doing this interview on the banks of the River | :27:04. | :27:10. | |
Clyde and I'm more worried about the thousands of shipyard jobs relying | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
on the Royal Navy contracts in Clyde. We are looking forward to | :27:15. | :27:17. | |
discussing that between now and referendum day, I'm confident we can | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
win. It looks from the outside the campaign has turned nasty in recent | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
week, way beyond the cyber unionist, you have been on the receiving end | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
of this, why is it turning so nasty? I have been on the receiving end of | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
it, and most of your viewers won't know about the phenomenon of cyber | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
nats, intolerant of anyone who disagrees, and rounding on people on | :27:42. | :27:51. | |
social networks and going on now. After Alastair Darling won in the TV | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
debate it turned nasty for me on the street. I have been touring in | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
hundreds of street corner meetings over 100 days, they have been great | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
and passionate and people from all sides coming up. It took sans at the | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
turn where there were mobs of yes voters who wouldn't allow anyone | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
else an opinion. I had to suspend the campaign for three days over the | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
weekend. I'm glad when I got back to my makeshift stage that whoever had | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
turned on that noisy mob had quietly over the weekend turned it off | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
again. You were implying it was one person switching on or off the | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
nastiness, you are not accusing Alex Salmond of that? No I haven't done | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
that, wherever I was going the yes Scotland offices co-ordinated | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
through Facebook and Twitter and all sorts of other ways, and ways of | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
organising a reception party, people who just wanted to be involved in | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
these conversations in the political debate, passionate people on both | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
sides, we worried for their safety. As a consequence we had to postpone | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
the tour two three days, it is up and running again, I'm looking | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
forward to getting out and having the great debate out on street | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
corners in Scotland. Thank you for being with us tonight. | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
Care homes for old folks don't always have a great reputation, only | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
a quarter of us would consider moving into one, even if we became | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
too fragile to look after ourselves in old at age. Paul Burstow has | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
spent a year looking at what can be done to change that perception. His | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
work for Demos at a London think-tank looked at how to provide | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
interstandards of care for -- standards of care for an | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
increasingly elderly population. We have been hearing from the residents | :29:37. | :29:38. | |
of care home in Kent. I was on my own at home and I had | :29:39. | :30:03. | |
heard about these homes and I thought perhaps it is a good thing. | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
So I inquired, got all the details about it and that's how I happened | :30:10. | :30:15. | |
to be here. So there is no more to it than that, actually. I have been | :30:16. | :30:22. | |
here now since the beginning of the year. It is nice to have a bit of | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
company. Because it gets very lonely when you're on your own, you talk to | :30:30. | :30:38. | |
yourself. I have a ring round here, that is my granddad. He was a | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
gymnast. I have heard a lot about some of these homes and this seems | :30:44. | :30:53. | |
pretty good. The staff are good here. This was taken at Ashdown | :30:54. | :31:00. | |
Forest. That is you on the motorbike. | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
Mum is self-funded, rather a lot of money. It is just short of about | :31:05. | :31:12. | |
?1,000 a week. It was the family home that had to be sold, I feel | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
sadder because it was sentimental, it was always my home from when I | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
was born, mum always insisted, as did my father that it would be there | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
for me and that was her wish. My mum has saved all her life, she has gone | :31:30. | :31:36. | |
without things like butter to put money aside, some other folk have | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
lived a nice life and enjoyed themselves, spent their money, had | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
holidays and they still get the same treatment that my mum gets, but my | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
mum is having to pay for it. To be honest, I did find that a little | :31:50. | :32:08. | |
unfair. You are very, very nice. I didn't decide, they sent me here, | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
the doctor said, I don't know, they just put me here and I woke up and | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
there I am, away, I ain't been back since. I did have an accident and I | :32:20. | :32:36. | |
seemed to have lost my memory, I seem to have picked it up now and I | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
know what they are talking about, but it was hard for a little while. | :32:41. | :32:51. | |
I don't like it here. It is a bit, I like to get out and mix with a lot | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
of people, you have to do what you are told. That is all right when you | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
are a young boy, but when you are getting on a bit, you don't want to | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
be told what to do, you know what I mean. This is where it happens. Are | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
you paying for this yourself or the council paying? I'm not paying. They | :33:11. | :33:30. | |
pay my rent. I'm lucky to be here. I can't hold anything, I can't lift | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
anything, there's nothing, not a lot I can do. And this is why I need the | :33:37. | :33:43. | |
care. Otherwise I wouldn't, I would be at home. I looked after my | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
mother, I wouldn't have her put away and I wouldn't have dreamt of having | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
her put in a home. So I looked after her and that was it. It was natural. | :33:55. | :34:01. | |
I wouldn't put my mother in a home when I could look after her. But | :34:02. | :34:11. | |
under the circumstances there is only me and if it wasn't for here | :34:12. | :34:27. | |
where would I be? # We travel along | :34:28. | :34:34. | |
# Singing a song # Side-by-side | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
The dignified voices of some of our senior citizens, Paul Burstow joins | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
me now. You say in the report we can no longer accept for others a | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
standard of care that we wouldn't accept for ourselves. What is wrong | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
with it? What is wrong with it is in the public mind people associate | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
residential care with a sense of loss, a loss of home, a loss of | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
independence, and often they associate it with a fear of neglect | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
and abuse. Yet the 12 months I have spent on this commission looking at | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
what great care looks like it is about giving people that ability to | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
reconnect, to have good relationships, to be able to have a | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
life they want to lead in that way. And to have some independence as | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
well? That's right. It is about maintaining the normal rhythms of | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
normal lie. Not being regimented but doing what you want to do. So there | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
is some good care in the country? There is a lot of good care in this | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
country and excellent care around the world, we have looked at both. | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
There needs to be a spectrum, a continuum of care, housing of care, | :35:36. | :35:42. | |
rather than this rigid definition of residential care which stifles | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
things. And gives it a bad reputation in some people's eyes? | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
Yes. It is a detailed and comprehensive report, I'm sure all | :35:50. | :35:52. | |
the political parties will be looking at it. What would be the | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
single biggest change in your view we could make that would improve the | :35:56. | :36:03. | |
quality of housing with care? One is to change the planning system to | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
make it easier for the right sort of housing to be provided, so people | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
can make a choice but be how they want to lead their later lives, and | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
make a choice about a new home to be living in. And make a difference to | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
staffing arrangements so there is a license to practice as staff, and | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
better training standards and paying them better. Better pay and more | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
professional status, that would make a big difference? It would. As a | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
society we are getting much older and old people do one thing, they | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
vote, and they are a bigger part of the demographic than ever before. | :36:36. | :36:37. | |
The political parties in some way will have to take some notice of | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
this? They will, and this Government through its care legislation and the | :36:42. | :36:44. | |
cap on care costs is trying to do its bit in that regard. But also | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
this report is addressing the needs of working-aged disabled people, | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
making sure they have these sorts of choices as well. In the end this is | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
about people being able to maintain their independence wherever they | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
live. The coalition has just passed the big Care Bill and act, from your | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
report it is not nearly enough? What I really came out of Government | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
thinking was that we still needed to do more and we hadn't done enough to | :37:09. | :37:11. | |
look at the future of residential care. This report really is a | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
clarion call to all political parties and to those who provide | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
care. We can do better, good is already there, we can have excellent | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
if we actually strive to do the sort of things this report is | :37:24. | :37:30. | |
recommending. Now the newest plant species to be discovered by butt | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
budding botonists will never sound the same again, the international | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
cot knee Congress, I'm sure you think of nothing else, in the | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
language of Aeneid and Homer and the stallwart of the tongue of owes | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
would no longer be the lingua franca for cataloguing new discoveries. Is | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
this a sign that learning Latin is not the bedrock of learning English | :37:55. | :38:09. | |
we thought. Snowdrops, galanthus, N avadus. | :38:10. | :38:23. | |
Kew Gardens, the Wembley of flowers. It seems we need to wake up and | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
smell the roses, because behind our backs botonists have changed wait | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
they describe plants. So was the bard right, "a rose by any other | :38:37. | :38:45. | |
name would smell as sweet". In the will be arium at Kew, Professor | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
David Simpson and his colleagues hold seven million plant specimens. | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
Their job is as far from over. Some 2,000 new samples are identified | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
every year. This This is a collection made by Charles Darwin. | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
The great man himself? Yes. This was collected in 1832 from Patagonia, | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
and this was collected on his trip around South America, as part of his | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
voyage. He or his cohorts would have written up where they found it, | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
those key details in Latin. It is certainly Latin was a way that you | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
could get people in different parts of the world to understand what the | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
botonist was talking about. This would have what we call a Latin | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
diagnosis, this is just a short piece of Latin, written in Latin | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
that gives the key features of the plants. So the main feature that is | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
would help to identify the plant. So it could be the length, the leaves, | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
the colour of the flowers. What we do now is we don't have the Latin | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
description, we have started putting in this journal we put this little | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
piece called the recognition statement. I think now we need to be | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
talking to a much wider audience and plants of course are an important | :40:05. | :40:14. | |
part of conservation in general. We have to get the information we have | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
in the specimens and plant descriptions over to that larger | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
scientific community, over the public at large. | :40:22. | :40:28. | |
Are the men of the her arium being Hearn roar about this, what about -- | :40:29. | :40:35. | |
herbivorian about it, what about the men who went out and covered the | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
globe and filled the houses here with specimens, would they have been | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
happy about junking the Latin. It is often attacked for being a dead | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
language but actually that is great, great advantage, because it is a | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
dead language its rules are set in stone, there is no wriggle room, | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
there is no room for development or lack of clarity. We spoke to this | :40:57. | :41:06. | |
channel's face of gardening, Monty Don. Surely BBC Two is the elitist | :41:07. | :41:14. | |
challenge, shouldn't we defend Latin and keep the hoi poloi at bay? No | :41:15. | :41:27. | |
because one of the greatest things about the hoi poloi garden! Long may | :41:28. | :41:35. | |
that last. If people feel intimidated by that, and that's bad, | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
and they should be allowed to use English. For classification, | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
botanical terms you need a common language to all countries and | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
languages. I think Latin has done pretty well. Final word, in English, | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
to our professor at Kew. What do you think Darwin would have made of | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
this? Revolution, sacrilidge perhaps? I think Darwin would | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
understand that things move on, evolution, this is evolution. I | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
think he was connected with that? Yeah, yeah. And I think that would, | :42:05. | :42:13. | |
I think he would have approved. I'm surprised not many of you spotted | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
tonight's mistake, Homer did not write in Latin or speak Latin, | :42:18. | :42:25. | |
indeed when he was riding the Iliad he did not exist, it was in ancient | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
Greek. We're joined by our guests now. Let | :42:29. | :42:36. | |
me come to you Dr Thomson first, you don't want Latin to have any place | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
in science, why? Well I think they got it right when they said that | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
Darwin would have approved really, because Darwin was interested in | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
scientists being able to talk to each other. And of course in those | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
days, when he was around, English hadn't quite taken over the world | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
like it has since then, and Latin really was the lingua franca of | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
scientist, so scientist could talk to each other in Latin. Nowadays, of | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
course, no-one can talk to anyone in Latin. And the language of science, | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
the language that I use is English. So in the interests of good | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
communication between scientists we should be using English, which we | :43:18. | :43:26. | |
now can do. Why use a dead language for live, 21st century science Dr | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
Pawlicki? It is a very good question, and I think the answer to | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
that has to be well there is no reason to hold on to it just for the | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
sake of it. I think most classists would agree that we need to be | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
pragmatic and if Latin is not serving the purpose that botonists | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
and other scientists need it to do then there is no point keeping on | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
using it just because it has always been done that way. Do you think | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
that is the case? If I understand correctly how the new botanical | :43:57. | :44:04. | |
systems are playing out. Certainly for the lengthier descriptions of | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
the plants and so on, yes it seems to me sensible that Latin is no | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
longer going to be the most accessible inclusive way of | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
communicating that information. The naming I think is probably a | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
different matter. When we're talking about the specific terms and words | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
that are used to name these species, then I think holding on to the Latin | :44:26. | :44:32. | |
words and the Latin words that we have is there. Many English words | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
have more than one meaning, isn't Latin more specific? Isn't that the | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
reason why it has lasted for so long, even in the scientific | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
community? Well, yes. You could say that. But in fact in reality of | :44:48. | :44:54. | |
course, two things, no-one is suggesting that Latinised names for | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
plants and animals should be replaced. Although of course they | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
are not actually Latin. They can be almost any language you care to | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
think of. They just give endings to make them look like fake Latin. It | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
is not as though we are actually using Latin for naming plants and | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
animals any way. You mean we are making it up? Giving everything an | :45:17. | :45:25. | |
"ium". Is that you nodding? We coin the new, the botonists and | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
scientists coin new words that fit the forms of Latin that they can | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
come from English words and actually my understanding is very often they | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
are Greek in origin but given a Latin form, so it is not as simple | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
as it seems. Didn't Latin become the language of many things that were | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
named in science from plants to minerals and so on, because in the | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
18th or 19th centuries, most educated scientists had a Latin | :45:56. | :46:02. | |
background. Now, even the most educated scientists probably don't? | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
Yes, I think what we are dealing with here is very much an indication | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
of lad tin's history in the modern world, which if we go back to the | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
Rennaissance certainly and certainly through to the 18th century and a | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
little bit beyond that, Latin was the language of scholarship, and you | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
could guarantee that it was a lingua franca be and it is not now, not in | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
the same way. A little bit sad Dr Thomson so see it go? Not at all, | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
I'm not sad. I think one thing we all ought to remember is that Botany | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
isn't exactly cool, is it. We think it is on Newsnight? Maybe you do, | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
but a lot of people don't. And I think an association with a long | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
dead language doesn't really help its image. So I think this is a | :46:49. | :46:55. | |
great step forward. We better leave it there doctors both of you, that's | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
it for tonight, Laura Kuensberg will be here tomorrow night, for now | :47:00. | :47:05. |