Browse content similar to 11/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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By this time just one week from now the polls in Scotland will be closed | :00:00. | :00:12. | |
and many of the record 97% of those eligible who registered to vote will | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
have marked their X for independence or the union. Now Scotland is place | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
where every politician wants to be. Today a trainload of Labour MPs | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
turned up in Glasgow to preach the goes elf Better Together by every | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
argument possible. We will be talking to one of the yes campaign's | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
biggest donors. I am of the view that the accused acted too hastily | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
and used excessive force. In the second sense it is clear his conduct | :00:45. | :00:52. | |
was negligent. Negligent but not guilty of premeditated murder. Oscar | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
Pistorius learns his fate tomorrow. How will South Africa respond. | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
I made it clear we will hunt down terrorists that threaten our | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
action against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. A new campaign of bombing | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
against the Islamic State wherever they may be. We will ask the Syrian | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
Government what they think of that, and hear from the world's most | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
famous diplomat, Henry Kissinger. This man beat terrifying odds to | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
beat the Ebola virus, thousands didn't, how did he do it and why is | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
he going back? Good evening, the day began with | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
claims and counter claims over the importance of two banks RBS and | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
Lloyd's considering moving their legal homes to London in the event | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
of a yes vote. RBS themselves said it would mean neither job cuts nor | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
move operations away or affect the day-to-day business. Lloyd's already | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
has its physical headquarters in England. The real excitement was the | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
concept of a political day trip to Scotland. Not normally a highlight | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
for MPs of all stripes and types in September. Our political editor | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
boarded the Hogwarts Express, not from platform nine and | :02:09. | :02:10. | |
three-quarters at kings correction but at Euston. One week left and it | :02:11. | :02:19. | |
is the flying Labour Party, the Shadow Cabinet boards the 7. 30 to | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
Glasgow. Not the 100 MPs touted before, but a sizeable number. These | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
Labour politicians know they need to get out the pro-union vote. Andy | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
Burnham does Labour understand Scotland? We are Scotland, that is | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
our roots, that is where we are from in terms of my own background in the | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
North West. The SNP has beaten you back recently? Of course, that is | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
our heritage, our roots it is DNA, so that's, we have been coming up | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
and down and giving our all in this campaign. And today the Labour | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
family comes together from all over Britain to say stay with us. Labour | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
is in trouble from union supporters for allowing the no camp's lead in | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
the polls to shrink. They know they are not as popular as they once | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
were. Why no balloons on the train? | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
Haven't we got any, I'm disappointing. We have eggs, we are | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
anticipating getting eggs, we have a few to launch back. | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
They are also getting flack for staying party political. Even though | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
the Prime Minister fronted up Tory unpopularity in Scotland yesterday, | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
those aboard the Labour locomotive still refuse to stand | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
shoulder-to-shoulder with him. Cameron's thing about the "effing | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
Tories" we willing returning to that. | :03:41. | :03:42. | |
What do you mean about that? That is what a lot of people think about | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
them. Cameron has hugged hoodies and huskies, he has never hugged anyone | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
from north of the border, they are the opposite of "one-nation". | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
Scotland says no! Labour's luminaries arrived into a tense | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
Scotland. Overnight the BBC reported that the Royal Bank of Scotland | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
would relocate its registered headquarters to London in event of | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
the yes vote. It was confirmed by RBS this morning, but Alex Salmond | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
was furious and he wrote to Cabinet Secretary demanding an inquiry. This | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
evening this appeal was rejected. I know that the BBC will want to | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
co-operate with the inevitable investigation by the Cabinet | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
Secretary into the briefing of this information. Given the briefing of | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
information, even if we weren't in a referendum campaign, even if there | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
weren't rules that are meant to apply to Government. The leaking of | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
market information is as serious a matter as you can possibly get. RBS | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
said later no jobs would be lost, but other companies made similar | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
noise, Lloyd's, Clydesdale, TSB and Tesco Bank. John Lewis, Waitrose and | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
Asda today said prices might go up in the event of a yes vote. But the | :04:57. | :05:04. | |
SNP believes the Westminster coalition pressured these groups to | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
back the Better Together. Aberdeen Asset Manager said today an | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
independent Scotland would be a success. | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
Better Together think they have their act to go for three reasons, | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
more powers to be handed over to Scotland, secondly to protect the | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
NHS in Scotland, the third is the decision of companies to leave | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
Scotland. Neither camp is resting on their laurels. The will of the | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
people one week from today, I believe will be the to restored this | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
rich ancient nation the opportunity once again to take its responsible | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
place in the community of nations. This is it. The moment to believe. | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
The moment to win. Thank you very much. Tomorrow UKIP arrived to | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
campaign for the union. The SNP hit Scotland's seven cities and we have | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
reached the seven-day countdown. In Dundee is coat founder and | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
chairman of the Stagecoach group Sir Bryan Souter. Good evening. First of | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
all we have heard that John Lewis partnership, including Waitrose, | :06:13. | :06:22. | |
also Asda, following on from the Kingfisher Group have all said | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
prices will rise if there is a yes vote. You can't say to people they | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
won't be worse off? Well, I think you have to look at why they are | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
coming out and saying this. They are not saying prices are going to rise, | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
they are pointing out that if there is not certainty about currency | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
union and if costs were to rise in Scotland, these costs would have to | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
be passed on to their customers. Of course I don't see any reason why | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
any of these things should happen. The most interesting revelation | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
today was Robert Peston who is telling us that basically Number Ten | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
are coraling and co-ordinating this campaign at the moment. And I just | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
think in Scotland it is seen as more bullying for the big boys. When you | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
have somebody who has credibility to keep hold of, like John Lewis | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
Partnership, they wouldn't say that likely, it is hardly likely they | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
will be bullied into something that is not the correct thing to say as a | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
business. At the moment any way they say in way they subsidise products | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
in Scotland by the rest of the UK operation. You don't really think | :07:25. | :07:32. | |
that serious people would really stretch the credibility of their | :07:33. | :07:34. | |
shareholders by saying something that is not true. They said prices | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
might rise in the event of independence. Again I say the | :07:39. | :07:40. | |
trouble is you cannot tell people in Scotland they won't be worse off? | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
No. And I think the emphasis is here on what they said. They said prices | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
"might" rise. They didn't say on what they said. They said prices | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
might drop and they could have? No, but of course the prices could drop | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
if the Government in Scotland creates the right environment and I | :08:02. | :08:10. | |
look at the tax incentives that we have already suggested with | :08:11. | :08:12. | |
corporation tax. The other incentives for companies, financial | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
services we could reinstate the tax credit which undermined all our | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
pension funds and attract more pension funds to locate in | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
Edinburgh. We could introduce tax regimes for the oil companies to | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
encourage them to do more exploration. You could do all these | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
things, you are absolutely right, but we don't know whether or not in | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
the event of independence all these things will happen. Instead the | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
situation might be under independence that you have at least | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
18 months, perhaps two years or more in which as an unstable environment, | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
so therefore it would be most unlikely that companies would come | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
to invest in Scotland, set up businesses without knowing what | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
regime. You could not expect companies to do it in the dark and | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
therefore Scotland would lose investment? I don't accept that, | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
because I think companies look at all of the uncertainties and they | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
have to make assessments and as I understand it people are actually | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
more concerned about an exit from Europe than what they are about | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
independence. I think companies have to have these conversations and they | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
have to look at the risks for shareholders and that is fair enough | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
that they should do THACHLT think when you read the -- when you read | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
the statements clearly, they are reasonable statements. And during | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
the 18-month period it would be in everyone's interest to settle the | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
currency union issue quickly, that is the main issue people are | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
unsettled about. In that case, Bryan Souter, can you tell me the name of | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
a single company who now, with the uncertainty is saying in the event | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
of an independent country they would move to Scotland for the first time. | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
The problem is there are no companies saying that? We found that | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
most of our growth comes from small and medium-sized companies, that is | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
where most of the support for independence comes from. We have had | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
a very good record in Scotland over the last few years of attracting | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
inward investment. In the last few months there has been no sign of | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
that tailing off. I don't have access to the exact numbers in this, | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
but the Scottish Government have the numbers on this, and I have heard | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
that quoted recently. There is no sign at the moment. If there is a | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
period of 18-months negotiation, I think the biggest issue that comes | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
out of that is this issue about the currency. And the reason why | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
sterling is so unsettled at the moment is because the unionist | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
position is creating a situation where international investors are | :10:38. | :10:47. | |
very concerned that the oil and gas and whiskey exports would drop from | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
the balance of payments. There is nothing to do about that uncertainty | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
because you are in a position to deliver anything, it would be a | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
process of negotiation. Where there is some certainty is both RBS and | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
Lloyd's have said their legal headquarters and Lloyd's is already, | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
would be in England. Therefore people know the share price has gone | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
up on the basis of that today because people know where they | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
stand, and they know deposits legally in England would be | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
guaranteed. That is a certainty you can't offer? Once the negotiations | :11:16. | :11:29. | |
are through we can offer that certainty. But the union also has | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
great deal of uncertainty for people. We have no idea whether the | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
Barnet formula will continue, we have no idea whether we will be in | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
Europe with an in-out referendum. These uncertainties have to be | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
balanced up, and actually I believe that during that negotiation period, | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
if we get the yes vote, and we get the mandate that we need, we could | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
settle most of these issues very, very quickly and it would be in | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
everyone's interest to do so. It affects both Scotland and the UK. It | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
would also perhaps be in your interest because you run one of the | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
United Kingdom's largest transport groups for bus travel particularly. | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
A lot of your employees and business is in England. David Cameron was | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
very misty-eyed at the thought of losing Scotland, surely you have a | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
huge loyalty and affection for your business in England. It wouldn't | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
feel the same, would it? Well, I have enormous affection for any | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
country where I'm making a good living, and I'm invested in many | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
different countries. Of course we're not going to be separated at all, | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
we're going to be as in the European Union, most of the customers of the | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
companies in Holland are in other parts of the European Union. So this | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
really is not really an argument in my view. Most of our customers are | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
in other countries, we are a very small country any way and we have | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
got customers in America, and just be clear that I'm on this programme | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
in my role as Souter Investments Chairman, not the Chairman of | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
Stagecoach, but I make the point that most of the companies in | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
Scotland and internationally have wide bases of customers. I don't | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
think these arguments really make much difference. In the past few | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
minutes a new poll has been published and our chief | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
correspondent is in Edinburgh tonight with the news. What is the | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
poll saying? Of course you can't judge this whole complicated | :13:24. | :13:25. | |
volatile situation based on one poll, but there is new significant | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
numbers tonight. In part because the YouGov poll out tonight, which puts | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
"no" back ahead at 52% to 48 from the yes campaign has been conducted | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
by the same company that at the weekend produced the same poll that | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
stunned Westminster into action by putting yes in the lead for the | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
first time. There are a couple of interesting things happening | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
underneath the top layer. The female votes, which the yes campaign still | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
has to persuade, in fact support for their arguments appears to be on the | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
slide. And secondly, the number of undecided voters appears to have | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
gone down to just 4%, really on the way down. Now, for Better Together, | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
perhaps for them this will feel that their economic arguments about risks | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
that they suggest appear to be finding more and more resonance. Of | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
course that has been echoed by the interventions of company bosses in | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
the last couple of days. At the same time though it has emerged that some | :14:24. | :14:26. | |
of those bosses met David Cameron in the last 24 hours to discuss this | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
issue. And for the nationalist side, well that gives fuel to the argument | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
that Westminster is pulling the strings. By the same token two of | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
the chief executives who have spoken out in the last couple of days have | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
expressed to me in the last year exactly that view but privately. It | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
is only now with seven days they are now willing to go public. As we said | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
the cavalry rode to Scotland on the rails, but the general is already in | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
the country. You spoke to him today? Everywhere you go now, everyone you | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
speak to, this is intense, it is very, very fluid and things have | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
been difficult for both campaign, apart from anything else it has been | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
going on for two years. But a hardened political campaigner said | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
this was like nothing they had seen before, it feels like a war. For the | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
man who has been leading the campaign for better by-election the | :15:23. | :15:24. | |
former Chancellor, Alistair Darling, it has been long, it has been tense | :15:25. | :15:32. | |
and time is running out. There are seven days to go now, the | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
advantage was yours for more than two years, it appears to have been | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
squadered, how did you allow that to happen? I always said the polls | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
would narrow, a year or two people said it was a foregone conclusion, I | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
said no it won't be. The reason for that is this decision is so | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
momentous for Scotland. If we decide to leave the UK it is not like a | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
general election where you can kick the Government of the day out or | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
kick them in the teeth if that is what you want to do. If we decide to | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
leave it is forever. There is no going back. It is not surprising | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
given the magnitude of that decision that you are getting people, even at | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
this stage of the week to go who are still agonising between the | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
arguments of the heart and head. But I think we will win. I'm confident | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
we will win. But your former colleague, Gordon Brown, clearly | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
felt that the situation was so perilous for your side of the | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
argument that he had no choice but to step in. Almost unilaterally it | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
seems? Gordon has been speaking for us for over a year now. But in | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
relation to the more powers for the Scottish Parliament which the party | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
has set out their actual proposals some time ago, I have been asking on | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
numerous occasions how do you bring things together to make sure you | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
have a precise single set of proposals, what is the timetable, | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
and yet we have announced that. What I would say to you is this, for most | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
people in Scotland and if you look at the poll published today, what | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
they are more interested in is what would this mean, rather than the | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
process. In terms of the campaign, the lead was yours to hold on to, | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
and it was slipping away, and your former colleague, Gordon Brown, | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
clearly felt he had no choice but to step in, even David Cameron and the | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
Westminster leaders feel they have had to step in? Both Both Gordon | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
Brown and the leaders of the parties have been campaigning for several | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
months now actually. It doesn't look like it to many people, these | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
interventions in the last ten days of the campaign, doesn't it look | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
rather desperate and panicked? In any election campaign and | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
referendums are pretty rare, it is not surprising that activity gets | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
ramped up as you get towards the actual polling day. I know from you | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
know meeting people, being out on the streets the level of interest in | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
Scotland and in this campaign is immense. The tension, the arguments | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
I have never seen anything like it in the last 30 years. Do you see the | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
strategy in the last few days from David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
Miliband as having been patronising? No I don't. I think there is nothing | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
wrong with people outside the UK expressing their views. Come on, the | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
other side have got American actors, or actors living in America | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
expressing their views. There is nothing wrong with people not living | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
in Scotland expressing a view. The most important thing to remember is | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
those in Scotland have the vote. And people are focussing on what this | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
means to them rather than on particular politician Is think. But | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
many voters we have spoken to have felt it is patronising for people to | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
jump on a plane from London and come up at the very last minute. Is it a | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
problem you don't see that? You will find people, especially people who | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
take the opposite view to me, nationalist who will say that, you | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
will also find if they hadn't come up the same nationalists would have | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
said actually isn't it terrible they are not coming up. Frankly though, I | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
think most people in Scotland will look at that sort of political | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
squabbling and say, come on, it is more important than that. But you | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
have staked this campaign on economic potential, potential | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
economic risks, was it wrong to gamble that voters wouldn't believe | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
Alex Salmond on the economy. Because clearly people do believe him, and | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
frankly some people have had enough of the economic arguments against | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
that you put forward? My argument has been based, yes on the brass | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
tacks, if you like. And that matters because it matters our ability to | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
generate jobs, to generate employment, wealth, to pay for the | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
health service. It is also an emotional argument as well. In the | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
last few days you have seen Alex Salmond, you know, it is really | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
unpleasant stuff that some how he represents Scotland and the rest of | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
us and those of us who oppose him, some how we are not entitled to have | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
our say. I'm proud to be Scottish, I'm also proud to be British as | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
well. I don't see why he should force me to choose between the two. | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
The emotional argument is just as strong as the economic argument, but | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
bread and butter, brass tacks, they matter to people as well. But that | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
is not the perception that many voters have had, and that suggests, | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
surely, that there have been mistakes in this campaign, and what | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
has come across is the issue of what is on the balance sheet not what is | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
in people's guts? If you take a decision to live with someone or get | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
married or where you live, if you had done the sums on the emotional | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
side you wouldn't do that, no thanks to that. What we have heard time and | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
again in the last few days is people want something different, they want | :20:34. | :20:35. | |
something else, and many voters in Scotland have come to see the yes | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
campaign as the one who is hold out the offer of a fairer country of | :20:41. | :20:49. | |
social justice. Labour, traditionally started in this | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
country, and began that argument? The SNP Government in Edinburgh has | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
cut 130,000 college place, 90,000 of them would have gone to young women, | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
most of these people going to the college, young students come from | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
backgrounds where they don't have the qualification, they need the | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
skills to get on. They have taken a billion pounds out of their | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
antipoverty programme, don't tell me that is progressive socialism or | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
anything like it. It is a completely different thing. There are | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
significant swathes of voters in Scotland who believe the other side | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
offers more social justice. They are beating you at your own game? But | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
they are not. And again if you look at what they do, rather than what | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
they say, the picture is rather different. There is a lot of Labour | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
voters who are looking and asking themselves what is best, most every | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
type of voter won't change, but I think we can deliver change within | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
months. You say there could be change within months, why did it | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
take so long for your side to offer a timetable for extra powers for | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
Scotland? Look, we have offered a timetable, and frankly, most people | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
are less concerned about process and all that, but rather... This calm | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
mains been going for two years, more than that, and it wasn't until ten | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
days before the vote, suddenly there is a timetable? There is a timetable | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
that shows how we can implement the legislation to strengthen the | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
Scottish Parliament. We are now seven days before polling day and I | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
don't know what money we will be using, what currency we will be | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
using, I don't know who will pay pensions in Scotland. I don't know | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
how well fare will work. Would it have been better if this timetable | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
for extra powers, that change you are now promising, had been coming | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
up much earlier in the campaign? I think actually if you look, the | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
thing that we need to explain is the extra powers that will come, which | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
we have been doing, and the timetable actually has helped us do | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
that. Regardless what happens, do you believe that we are heading for | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
some kind of constitutional crisis, or breakdown? If Scotland votes to | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
go next week that's it. There is no question it will become independent. | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
There is no question of it, there is no second chance if you like. And of | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
course that will have profound implications for the rest of the UK | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
as well. If the vote is no, ought England to get the extra powers | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
Scotland will get? There is a big issue in England if you look at | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
particularly cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, they | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
in my view need more powers to try to shift some of the economic | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
balance to the northern part of England way from the south-east. You | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
do believe then that other parts of the UK should get the same kind of | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
extra powers too? Well, look up to a point in the sense that the law in | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
Scotland is different. The education system is different, and you know | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
health has always been organised differently, that is not the case in | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
different parts of England. Next Friday morning f yes win, would you | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
be willing to be part of Alex Salmond's negotiating team? He keeps | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
going on about this, Alex Salmond and team work, come on. But would | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
you be willing to do it? I'm Scottish, I'm staying here, I'm | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
democrat, I will abide by the result. But, you know, if you look | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
at his prospectus, some of the stuff he's arguing in the White Paper, | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
some of it just doesn't stack up. You must have considered how would | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
you feel about living in an independent Scotland with Alex | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
Salmond as the leader of the country? You know if Scotland became | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
independent presumably we would have elections like everybody else and | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
decide which party was going to do that. What I'm more worried about | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
now in a way I wasn't six months ago is how to bring together the | :24:41. | :24:42. | |
divisions in Scotland at the moment. When I hear Alex Salmond saying | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
yesterday, he was going on about Team Scotland, what he's saying in | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
an undertone that those of you not with me are doing something wrong. | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
That is offensive stuff. Both sides of the argument hold passionate | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
views on the country, all of us are as Scottish as it is desperately | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
keen to sort out our country. I have not seen tensions like this in 30 | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
years of campaigning. When I find people who are frightened to speak | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
out and put posters up, we don't want to live in a country like that. | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
On the 19th there is a lot of healing to be done. This has been | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
fierce and deeply personal, probably for every single Scott. But what | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
kind of toll has it taken on you? I volunteered to do this. Are you | :25:31. | :25:37. | |
still glad you did? Yes, I am. I would never have forgiven myself to | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
sit on the sidelines and hope somebody else would do it. This is | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
an argument we need to settle in Scotland, and we will in just over | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
six days time. Oscar Pistorius has been cleared of the murder of his | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, however, he still faces the | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
possibility of a number of years in prison for cupable homicide, the | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
South African equivalent of manslaughter, with a maximum 15-year | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
sentence on the table. The trial has been noted for black woman judging a | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
white man without a jury, in front of the glare of the entire South | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
Africa nation. How much is the trial a mirror of South African society, | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
and how far has it come since apartheid. | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
Oscar Pistorius was a star, one of South Africa's biggest and most | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
severed athletes. He changed the image of the Paralympics, and | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
becamen the first amputee runner to compete in an Olympic Games. I train | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
harder than any of the other guys do, I put in more hours, I eat | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
better, sleep better and rest better, I'm more diligent and train | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
better than other guys. The image was completed with his glamorous | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
model girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp. But on Valentine's Day last year he | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
killed her, firing four shots through a bathroom door at his home | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
in Pretoria. There is no way you can convince a court that she stood | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
there saying nothing, why, why would she not say a thing? Oscar Pistorius | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
has always maintained he thought there was an intruder. It was the | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
first trial to be televised in South Africa, and was watched around the | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
world. Casting a spotlight on the country's justice system. Where one | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
judge and no jury presided in court. A legacy of apartheid. It has been a | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
trial with drama, as a darker side to Pistorius came out, including his | :27:25. | :27:33. | |
liking for guns. Screams of delight, but listen to the voice of man who | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
sounds very much like Oscar Pistorius. | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
The prosecution said it was premeditated murder, a charge which | :27:45. | :27:55. | |
the judge rejected. It follows that the accused's erroneous belief that | :27:56. | :28:02. | |
his life was in danger, the accused cannot be found guilty of murder. | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
That, however, is not the end of the matter. As culpable homicide is a | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
competent verdict. But she still suggested he was guilty of | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
negligence, and that is an accusation which tomorrow could | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
still see Oscar Pistorius end his career in jail. With me in the | :28:22. | :28:28. | |
studio to discuss all this is The Orange Prize nominated South | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
African-born author, Gillian Slovo, and from Johannesburg, author and | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
broadcaster, Eric Miyeni. What did you make of this part of the | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
verdict, not guilty of murder, do you think he benefitted from a lack | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
of a jury? I don't think it is a lack of a jury, I think it is a very | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
difficult thing to prove what is in a man's mind. He's the only living | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
witness to tell you what's there, how do you prove that what he's | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
saying and in his mind is wrong. I don't think it has anything to do | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
with the jury. It was a very difficult thing for the state to | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
prove. Tell me, Gillian Slovo, what does this say about South Africa, | :29:09. | :29:16. | |
how does it play out in South Africa the idea that there was somebody | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
else in the room and chances are Oscar Pistorius thought it was black | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
man invading his house? I think it is an extraordinary thought for him. | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
Afterall Oscar Pistorius lived in a port trees. -- for -- fortress. He | :29:27. | :29:40. | |
had security guards, that fear is not founded on reality, but on a | :29:41. | :29:47. | |
fear, I think, of the privileged that there will be the mass of the | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
impoverished to come and try to get their money and actually come and | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
get their guns. Do you think that this speaks to a chasam between | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
black and white in South Africa? I'm not even sure it is between black | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
and white, it is a chasam of class. It is about the fact that there are | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
a small number of very rich and entitled people in that country. | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
Many of them are white, but increasingly more of them are black | :30:16. | :30:22. | |
and a huge bulk of impoverished people. Eric what do you think of | :30:23. | :30:31. | |
that? I do not think the way it has gone proves any chasam in the | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
society, it proves no matter how privileged, no matter how famous, if | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
you do something wrong you will be held to account. And secondly I | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
think we should correct this. Oscar never, ever said there was a black | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
intruder, not once did he say that, not once was it mentioned in court. | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
He said he thought there was an intruder, and everybody else who | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
says black is putting that into the picture, Oscar didn't. Yeah, Oscar | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
never said it was a black intruder, but I think the assumption that it | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
would be black intruder is a valid one to make. In the past during the | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
years of party there was something they called the "black peril". I | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
think that still runs in the consciousness of people in that | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
country. That there is something very scary and something out to get | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
them. And certainly Oscar Pistorius talked about how in his childhood | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
this was something he and his mother often did discuss. Eric? Yeah, but I | :31:32. | :31:39. | |
think we should take Judge Masipa's lead, it is important to do that. We | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
can't put words in someone's mouth. The fact people used prejudice to | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
assume things is incorrect, that is not how to run a justice system | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
either. If we use these volatile terms that were not mentioned at | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
all, we would not get justice. This judge would havered in erred in what | :31:57. | :32:05. | |
she was doing and we should do the same. It is interesting to see after | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
all these years after apartheid that Judge Masipa is one of two female | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
judge, this is progress, and the racist assumption is she would have | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
been tough on Oscar Pistorius, where as she took her legal training very | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
seriously indeed, and delivered a very long verdict on part of it. | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
What will be the impact if he's found guilty of culpable homicide? | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
It will be an incredible impact. I mean either way as a nation we will | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
have to look at everything she says to justify her judgment, whether we | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
agree with it or not, we will have to stay with the facts. Right now I | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
think she's incredibly correct in saying that the state just couldn't, | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
it is almost an impossible thing to prove that this is what the man | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
intended when he's the only witness. Whatever she comes up with, all we | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
are left with is how she gets to the conclusion. And so far I think she's | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
doing an incredible job. And precisely because everyone is | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
pudding the raciadivide -- putting the racial divide and she's a black | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
woman and she should do this and the fact that she is not is an | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
incredible sign of our justice system. It is a sign of the justice | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
system working, the South African justice system doesn't always work | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
like this, but she is taking it incredibly serious. It is the first | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
televised trial with an affect on everyone. One place there is a | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
divide is relations between men and women in South African, the Women's | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
League was there as well. There is a real worry about sexism in South | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
Africa? Not only sexism but violence against women. That was never | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
proved? The situation has improved in South Africa in the sense that | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
since 2009 less women are getting killed by their partners. I think it | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
is now rate of one every eight hours rather than 2009 when it was one | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
every six hours. There is a real problem within South Africa, not | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
only about violence in general, but yes, violence again women. Thank you | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
very much indeed. If we are now clear that President | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
Obama will begin open-ended air strikes against IS in Syria, the | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
British Government sent confusing signals over British involvement. | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
First Alex Hammond insisted Britain would not take part in any air | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
strike, only to be corrected by Downing Street which said in terms | :34:33. | :34:34. | |
of air power the Prime Minister has not ruled anything out. For one | :34:35. | :34:45. | |
former US Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, the US President's moment | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
of clarity has not come too soon. He had accused the US of being | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
bystanders and encouraged an all-out attack on IS. In his book, World | :34:56. | :35:02. | |
Order has just come out. President Obama has said he wants to | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
destroy the Islamic State and there will be US air strikes against them | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
in Syria, can he achieve his goal? We should be very careful in stating | :35:12. | :35:19. | |
objectives that are related to what the American political process will | :35:20. | :35:26. | |
support. In this case we are dealing with 20,000 fanatics that started | :35:27. | :35:34. | |
Anwar offshoot of Al Qaeda. I think it is an objective that can be | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
reached and defined in that manner. I do not believe that will bring | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
piece to the Middle East. It means that the challenges will change and | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
that's important for America to understand. | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
You have always been an advocate of realisim in foreign policy rather | :35:55. | :36:02. | |
than idealism. This is a standard argument, I believe that you have to | :36:03. | :36:12. | |
begin argument, I believe that you have to begin I think you have to | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
begin with a realistic assessment of the forces at work, they include | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
values and ideals. So in that sense you are a realist, should the US be | :36:21. | :36:27. | |
co-operating with President Assad in Syria, the sworn enemy of a year ago | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
in order to combat the Islamic State? I think we should settle our | :36:32. | :36:39. | |
disagreement with Assad aside for the moment. Not co-operate with him | :36:40. | :36:53. | |
in any formal way. But then when we succeed in destroying ISIS we could | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
then reconsider our views of our relationship with Assad, or we could | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
address the situation, which I think is more important, even more | :37:05. | :37:11. | |
important, what kind of structure should emerge there. Because the | :37:12. | :37:20. | |
notion that Syria is a coherent state is a figment of the 1920s. And | :37:21. | :37:28. | |
so that it would have to be reconstructed in some fashion. It is | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
in that context that we should then look at the Assad question again. | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
You say the US failed in Iraq because it was trying to implement | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
American values in the part of a world where there were no historical | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
roots. Is the US doom today fail again as it tries to take on the | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
Islamic state in Iraq and Syria? We have to understand that it is not in | :37:50. | :37:56. | |
our capability to bring about western-style democracy in these | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
societies in the process of a military conflict. And it is | :38:04. | :38:12. | |
probably not sustainable in American domestic opinion to engage in such | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
an enterprise. When you look at the chaos in Iraq today, do you regret | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
your support for the US-led invasion? If I had known then what I | :38:21. | :38:30. | |
know now, and if I had been as aware of the schisms between the Shia and | :38:31. | :38:38. | |
the Sunni, as I was not then, as most briefings suggested was not | :38:39. | :38:45. | |
relevant to the Iraqi case. Had I known all of this I would not | :38:46. | :38:59. | |
recommend it today. This is what I think today. In your book you argue | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
that because the world is so volatile it is more important than | :39:04. | :39:10. | |
ever for America to remain engaged. Is Barack Obama as engaged as he | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
should be? There are two levels of engagment, there are things you | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
proclaim you will do and the commitment you indicate behind the | :39:21. | :39:32. | |
things that you will do. And it seems to me that the first part of | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
that has been met more fully than the second part. Meaning? Meaning | :39:38. | :39:46. | |
that the personal belief in what is being done and the ability to | :39:47. | :39:58. | |
inspire your people to go on an as yet unchartered road, that part of | :39:59. | :40:05. | |
needs another speed. You talk about the breakdown of legit my macy and | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
trust in Government. Could that theory explain the rise in support | :40:10. | :40:19. | |
for Scottish independence? Yes. A lot of faith in established | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
institutions. If Scotland voted for independence would the United | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
Kingdom without Scotland be diminished as a world power? That | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
would depend in part on how it conducts itself. I don't think | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
necessarily. Because not everybody will fully understand what has | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
happened. And then for some it might still be thought of as the United | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
Kingdom. For you who has, in your academic life, seen the nation state | :40:48. | :41:02. | |
and the peace fail. Would it sadden you to see an independent Scotland? | :41:03. | :41:10. | |
It wouldn't sadden me. But if it happens, America can live it with | :41:11. | :41:18. | |
it, Britain will find way to get through it but it will be an | :41:19. | :41:32. | |
emotional drama for Britain. It must have some impact. Thank you very | :41:33. | :41:41. | |
much for joining us. A little earlier I spoke to Bouthaina | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
Shaaban, political and media adviser for President Assad from Damascus. | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
President Obama says there will be air strikes in Syria against IS, do | :41:50. | :41:58. | |
you welcome that? I think what President Obama said is quite | :41:59. | :42:06. | |
confusing because the Security Council resolution 217 spoke about | :42:07. | :42:13. | |
fighting terrorism, and they spoke about the world community standing | :42:14. | :42:21. | |
against terrorism, while the speech of President Obama dropped the | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
co-ordination with Russia and China, invented some opposition that he | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
wanted to support. I think it has many problems what President Obama | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
has announced and I think the west again is making mistakes in our | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
region. They should we view their strategy before taking any action in | :42:46. | :42:52. | |
that region if they truly want to stop terrorism. We know there are | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
ten Arab states rallying to the United States, surely that is your | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
best chance of defeating IS? Terrorism did not start with I SFOR | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
a start. In Syria we have been facing the same kind of terrorism | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
for the last four years. The same kind of killing, slaughtering, you | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
know displacing Christians and other people, and therefore I think what | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
President Obama is talking about is not going to solve any problem | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
anywhere because's not taking the right decision now. If he is going | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
to stand by what he said today. What he said today needs a lot of | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
clarification. Let's clarify something now. If President Obama | :43:39. | :43:50. | |
mounts air strikes near Raqa, will Syria attack American airplanes? Our | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
Foreign Minister has announced if there is an inter-National Coalition | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
against terrorism, Syria will be ready to be part of it. We have been | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
fighting terrorism for the last 30 years, but certainly nobody will be | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
able to fight terrorism on our land without our co-ordination and | :44:11. | :44:12. | |
without our role in fighting terrorism. If President Obama | :44:13. | :44:19. | |
launches air strikes backed by ten Arab states in Syria, will there be | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
a counter-attack by Syria, or will you see it as President Obama doing | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
your job for you and combatting IS? You see now I think there is a lot | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
of talk that is going on, I think Russia and China are not accepting | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
what President Obama is saying. He is not abiding by Security Council | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
resolution, even though the statement he did today, speaking | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
about hunting terrorists is easier said than done, speaking about not | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
allowing Christians and minorities to be removed from their original | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
land. I would like to tell you... What does President Assad want, what | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
are you doing to combat IS? What are you doing to take on IS? We have | :45:04. | :45:11. | |
been fighting terrorism, IS and other kinds of terrorism, there are | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
over 1,000 branches of terrorism here, for the last four years. They | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
have been slaughtering our people, they have been killing our army, the | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
west unfortunately only noticed when a western person was slaughtered and | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
we condemn killing anybody, but our people have been killed for the last | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
four years, and nobody even condemned the killing of our people | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
and the people of our army. If President Obama strikes near Raqa, | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
not all over Syria, but in the east, along a line, will the Syrians | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
welcome that help to defeat IS? Syria would welcome to be part of | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
the discussion and the decision, because fighting terrorism is not an | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
easy thing, and we are the people who have been facing terrorism in | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
the region. Will you talk to President Obama? I said to President | :46:05. | :46:14. | |
Obama that he should truly get the opinion and the help of all people | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
in the region, not only the countries who have been very handy | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
in helping terrorists, who have been financing terrorism. Raqa is an | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
ungoverned space and the American commandos went in to try to get | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
James Foley, there is a British hostage among other hostages, surely | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
we must make every effort in that area to combat IS? You know why the | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
west now suddenly started to talk only about IS, talk about terrorism, | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
what did they do since 9/11, since 2001, what are the achievements in | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
Pakistan, in upper Afghanistan and in Libya. They have to believe that | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
they have to listen to consult with people who have been truly victims | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
of terrorism, not to meet with countries who have been financing | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
arming and facilitating terrorism. But the problem is that President | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
Assad is not in control of the whole of his country. President Assad is | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
not control of the situation, therefore it is impossible for those | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
standing by in other countries not to do anything. Other people have to | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
take on IS if President Assad can't do it? At least the army of Syria is | :47:33. | :47:39. | |
fighting terrorism everywhere, and if there areas that are taken by the | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
terrorists, it is thanks to the people who have been financing and | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
arming and facilitating terrorism, therefore the least thing that Obama | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
could do is stand with Syria, with the Government of Syria against | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
terrorism and with the Government of the region who truly are against | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
terrorism. You know that IS represents a very particular threat, | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
this is not like the opposition that stood up to President Assad four | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
years ago, this is quite different. You know it is a different kettle of | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
fish and they have to be taken on separately. You know that? | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
Unfortunately you know things that are not real. IS is like the | :48:23. | :48:31. | |
terrorist like other organisation, I can count 100 organisations that | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
have been slaughtering people, killing women and have been | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
criminals all over the country. I'm not underestimating the horrid | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
presence of IS, but I'm saying to the west you have to get real. You | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
have to see what's happening on the ground. What President Obama is | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
saying he's going to support and finance and arm, they are the same | :48:54. | :49:01. | |
people like IS, they have the same ideology, extremist, terrorist | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
ideology. Thank you very much. To survive the deadly Ebola virus is | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
one thing, but to return to the centre of the epidemic to play a | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
part again to control the outbreak is quite near. William Pooley, the | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
British nurse who was the first Britain to contract the virus in | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
Sierra Leone, was desperately ill when the RAF evacuated him from a | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
Government base in Kenema three weeks ago. The odds of him surviving | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
were poor, with expert demand in the Royal Free Hospital, under Stephen | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
Mepham in a microbiology consultant who flew to Sierra Leone to | :49:40. | :49:47. | |
accompany him home. Charities such as medicines sans front tears | :49:48. | :49:49. | |
turning patients away, he's going back. Only worked in the hospital | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
six weeks when he became infected, he believes he has work to do in | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
Sierra Leone. It is good to see you looking well. You went to work in | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
that hospital, you were already working for a charity in the area. | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
Then you went to hospital because of Ebola, did you know what you were | :50:05. | :50:13. | |
facing? Not before I went. After a few weeks there it became apparent | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
that people were, nursing were getting infected, there were | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
certainly a risky place to work that did become apparent after a few | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
weeks, but there was also improvement happening all the time. | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
It felt like things were becoming safer. And indeed you lost friends | :50:33. | :50:42. | |
you had made there? In the time I was there eight or so colleagues | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
died that I was working with. And then when you became ill, did you | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
realise quickly just how ill you were? It was overnight really, I | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
started to feel sick and then the next day he was tested. I had the | :50:59. | :51:06. | |
feeling it was going to be bad news. And the test to prove that I had | :51:07. | :51:16. | |
Ebola, it happened very quickly. I always wondered it did you tell your | :51:17. | :51:23. | |
parents at that point? I wanted to hold off until the evacuation was | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
confirmed. Once all of that was put into place I was able to tell my | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
parents. It must have been extraordinary, but you understand | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
infectious diseases and you work with them, to be in the isolation | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
tent and to be treated at the Royal Free, what did you make of it, it | :51:42. | :51:48. | |
must have been extraordinary? It was extraordinary, and the contrast | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
between the care that I was providing in Sierra Leone with the | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
care that I received, I was outnumbered by healthcare work | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
erstwhile the patients were outnumbing me. A Third World disease | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
treated in a first world country, as compared what happens in the third | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
world company? That changes outcomes, I had that treatment and | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
care. What do you think about that f this was a disease that broadly | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
affected a white western population we would have found a vaccine | :52:18. | :52:29. | |
quicker? Money has to be made out of these things, it was easy to ignore | :52:30. | :52:36. | |
the problem while there were small pockets of disease in place, I don't | :52:37. | :52:43. | |
think it can be ignored any longer. Medicines sans frontier in like | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
beeria are saying it is out of control what -- in Liberia are | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
saying it is out of control what are you saying about that? They said | :52:51. | :52:57. | |
they needed an 800 bed hospital and it is getting out of control in | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
Liberia and Sierra Leone as well, you can see the rate of new | :53:02. | :53:09. | |
infections going up exponentially. And that means more deaths? We are | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
moving away from the time when we can contain this towards a point | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
where it is a lost cause. What do you want David Cameron to do? I | :53:20. | :53:29. | |
would love to see him take global leadership on this and dedicate a | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
good amount of resources for establishing treatment centres and a | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
number of treatment services for Sierra Leone and Liberia, where they | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
can give decent care for international staff, well resourced, | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
they will be safe for staff to work in. And better outcomes. You have | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
had the disease and treated, can you ever get it again, there is some | :53:54. | :54:01. | |
dispute about this? Almost all of the evidence points towards | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
immunity, we don't know for how long, whether it is lifelong. But it | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
seems very likely that I would be protected against this strain of | :54:09. | :54:11. | |
Ebola at least. How quickly are you going back? It will be a few weeks. | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
You don't have your passport yet because it was incinerated? That is | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
in the post. Your family are OK with you going back? They support me all | :54:22. | :54:27. | |
the way. The front papers tomorrow: | :54:28. | :54:47. | |
Nothing unusual about a holiday and nothing unusual about recording | :54:48. | :54:56. | |
every single event, adventure, meal, drinking marathon, with some | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
impressive Photoshop skills a Dutch student found she could do it all | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
without moving a muscle. She faked a trip from her home in Amsterdam to | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
satire the media management. The quiet settled spell of weather | :55:11. | :55:58. | |
conditions. No sign of rain in the near future. | :55:59. | :55:59. |