Browse content similar to 30/10/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight - this programme has seen details of the extraordinary | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
payments made by Kids Company to some of its clients. | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
Why was the charity authorising spending on designer shoes | :00:11. | :00:23. | |
Ministers saw these details before authorising a multi-million | :00:24. | :00:26. | |
One senior Cabinet office source told me these | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
Either you leave us to die in peace, or either tell the world the truth! | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
He spent a third of his life in a cell in Guantanmo Bay. | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
Now Shaker Aamer is released home to Britain - without charge. | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
What purpose has Guantanmo served - and what do its practices say | :00:41. | :00:42. | |
We're joined by two men who know Gauantanamo well | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
Musicians play their instrument, I play the orchestra. | :00:48. | :00:59. | |
We talk to film director Danny Boyle about his no holds-barred portrayal | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
A corporation like Apple is so powerful now, | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
so influential around the world, that it is crucial that writers and | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
artists tell the stories that they don't necessarily want you to tell. | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
And on Artsnight, George the Poet explores black culture in the | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
For me, racism always trumps sexism, for me. | :01:21. | :01:34. | |
A senior cabinet office source has described as "gobsmacking" | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
details of the payments made by the charity Kids Company just three days | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
A preliminary report - seen by this programme - confirms large | :01:43. | :01:49. | |
sums were made to individual clients - and even to the family of staff. | :01:50. | :02:04. | |
One individual received ?47,000 over the past year. Government officials | :02:05. | :02:15. | |
had advised ministers against giving the charity further money. | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
Kids Company - which shut down in August - had been led by | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
the charistmatic and high profile founder, Camilla Batmanghelidgh. | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
Chris Cook who broke the orginal story of Kids Company's | :02:27. | :02:28. | |
Ministers were sent a report containing concerning | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
details about Kids Company just three days before they paid it ?3 | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
The document obtained by Newsnight and BuzzFeed News contains new | :02:36. | :02:43. | |
information about the charity's operations under | :02:44. | :02:45. | |
And it will increase pressure on Matthew Hancock and Oliver Letwin, | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
the two Cabinet Office ministers who signed off on the payment. | :02:51. | :02:52. | |
The report is by PWC, the accountants. | :02:53. | :03:00. | |
It is an interim response to a set of allegations made to | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
the Charity Commission by former employees of Kids Company. | :03:04. | :03:05. | |
Now, here is how Alan Yentob, the charity's chair of trustees | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
and a BBC executive, characterised its content to MPs a fortnight ago. | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
Because of the allegations going on, because we had to go to the PWC | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
and pay them ?50,000 to tell us that there wasn't much substance | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
in the allegations and therefore the Cabinet Office should go ahead | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
This confidential report doesn't adjudicate on the allegations that | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
were made to the Charity Commission. | :03:27. | :03:35. | |
But what it does do is establishes the facts around them and it finds | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
For example, patchy record keeping. The thing | :03:39. | :03:46. | |
The thing that really jumped out from this report, there is | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
the sheer scale of the spending on some of Kids Company's clients. | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
Two young people related to staff members benefit from nearly 134 | :03:54. | :04:03. | |
thousand pounds worth of spending. PWC said ?90,000 of that went on | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
therapy but that still leaves a lot to account for. When they went | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
through the receipts they found one from this designer shoe shop in the | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
London West End. ?300 on a single pair of designer shoes. In other | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
cases the PWC report mentions receipts for Apple computers and | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
high-end clothes shops. Kids Company refuses to comment on individual | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
cases but the charity said spending was always motivated by specific of | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
each client. The document also showed spending on the child of an | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
Iranian diplomat, document says Kids Company funded their Ph.D. At a | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
high-ranking British university. Support was costed at ?25,000 per | :04:49. | :04:57. | |
year. Camila Batmanghelidjh who is herself Iranian, said she had not | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
been involved in the case. But she said the president needed support | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
and the donor was sponsoring the spending. But why was Kids Company | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
sponsoring a foreign student at all? The PWC report also looks into | :05:10. | :05:17. | |
allegations of employment irregularities. Money for a favoured | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
crime. It confirms one person received over ?47,000 in untaxed | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
income in 2014, including thousands of pounds for rent and clothes. This | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
individual was not required at all but an employee. They were just paid | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
as a client to avoid taxes. The charity completely denies this but | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
even if this person was acquired, we still have a problem. Acquired | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
received almost ?1000 per from Kids Company. This person did not have a | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
family but this is what Camila Batmanghelidjh said to MPs two weeks | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
ago. Was it true that people over the age of 18 received over ?100 per | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
week? That would be very rare and only if it was a family. And they | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
have two support a family. You are aware that it is contempt of | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
Parliament to mislead us? Absolutely. This charity leader, who | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
has had previous disagreements with Kids Company, thinks the money they | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
spent was not well tailored to the needs of recipient. What I'm seeing | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
in the report is random, flamboyant largesse as opposed to strategic | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
support of vulnerable young people. I would want to see in any kind of | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
paperwork from Kids Company, detailed care plan. Why this | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
individual was chosen, why the amounts of money were given in this | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
way and for this purpose. The charity of course disagrees. They | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
say spending was based on assessment of personal, social and clinical | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
needs but the report is a problem for ministers and raises questions | :07:03. | :07:03. | |
for Alan Yentob. A spokesman for | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
the charity's leaders has told us: The allegations made to the Charity | :07:07. | :07:08. | |
Commission were not substantiated. When PWC reported on their findings | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
the evidence they had seen did not This was not a full audit | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
but an intensive investigation looking at hundreds of documents | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
and interviews with key staff. Alan Yentob made it clear to | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
the Public Accounts Select Committee that the PWC investigation | :07:24. | :07:25. | |
was incomplete. Financial and practical support has | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
always been part of Kids Company's role providing | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
a supportive family environment. All the gifts referred to in the PWC | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
report were funded by private donors, | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
not by the Government's grant. Chris Cook, he is with us here. | :07:40. | :07:53. | |
Where does that now leave things? Well the next phase is with the | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
select committee, there is a session next week and the big one will be | :07:57. | :08:04. | |
with Matt Hancock and Oliver Aleppo and having to explain themselves. | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
Their argument is really that ministers have been overruling civil | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
servants to give money to Kids Company since 2002. They were the | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
ones who forced Camila Batmanghelidjh to resign. It is sort | :08:18. | :08:25. | |
of their fault that money was spent recently but they were at least not | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
as bad as previous ministers. Thank you very much. | :08:30. | :08:30. | |
For the last 14 years he's been known as detainee 239. | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
Shaker Aamer has spent nearly a third of his life in Guantanamo bay | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
- and yet this evening he returned home to the UK without charge. | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
His plane landed at Biggin Hill airport this afternoon, | :08:40. | :08:41. | |
and the man - picked up by a bounty hunter in the | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
Jelalabad region of Afghanistan in 2001 - was released without charge. | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
He has always denied any form of extremism - and | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
in later years he became an advocate for other prisoners rights. | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
He could now be in line for a ?1 million payout | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
Tonight, we ask why he was kept for so long - and what purpose | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
The voice of Shaker Aamer, recorded in his cell by an American | :09:02. | :09:18. | |
documentary team in Guantanamo Bay two years ago. | :09:19. | :09:26. | |
Today Shaker Aamer, the final British resident in Guantanamo | :09:27. | :09:34. | |
arrived back in the UK after 14 years of internment without trial. | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
He was cleared for release in 2007. A Saudi national, he had been living | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
in the UK before his arrest that has a wife and four children. His | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
youngest son who he has never seen, was born the same day he was sent to | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
Guantanamo Bay. Shaker Aamer, would eating the 239, was captured in | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
Afghanistan in 2001. He claims he was engaged in aid work at the time | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
but in US documents released by WikiLeaks, is described as a | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
recruiter, financier and facilitator with a history of participating in | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
jihadist combat. The documents also state he admitted travelling to | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
Afghanistan in 2000 to serve with the mujahedin. In spite of these | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
allegations, he was never charged and his lawyers have said he was | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
subject to regular beatings, sleep deprivation and spread almost one | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
year in solitary confinement. His supporters said the delay in this | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
release was due to security service failures that he could reveal | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
damaging information. He alleges British intelligence agents | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
questioned him and they knew that he was being tortured. It is unlikely | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
then that his return to the UK marks an end to his story. But for now | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
Shaker Aamer has said he is more pressing priorities, like a cup of | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
coffee and reuniting with his wife and family. | :10:59. | :11:00. | |
Our two guests tonight both know it well, but have seen it | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
Here in the studio, Moazzam Begg, a former detainee incarcerated | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
there for two years - and from Washington David Rivkin, a former | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
Thank you both for coming in. Moazzam Begg you have been in touch | :11:12. | :11:23. | |
with the family of Shaker Aamer today. Of course they are overjoyed, | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
they have also been apprehensive about what it means to reconnect | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
with the father, husband. And of course Shaker Aamer has not seen | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
those children, the last time he saw them they were just babies and he | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
has never met his youngest until today. So what that means for Shaker | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
Aamer is to be a father once again, a husband, a member of society. And | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
to be able to walk out of the four corners of the cell that he used to | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
being, unrestricted. It is something completely new him. 14 years and | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
then no charge at all. Guantanamo Bay seems pretty indefensible on a | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
day like today? On the contrary, the fact that he has not been charged is | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
not signify anything. He was held for a number of years as an enemy | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
combatant while the conflict was still going on. It is quite common | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
not to charge people and despite insinuations to the contrary, he was | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
held in humane and comfortable conditions. Better than most people | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
in federal prisons. He was not a charity worker, he was a combatant, | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
and there was plenty of evidence, he belonged to an organisation that | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
committed acts of brutality, killing innocent women and children, | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
torturing people. With all due respect are not greatly moved by his | :12:53. | :12:54. | |
desire to be reunited with his family. What about people who were | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
killed and tortured and had their heads cut off? So tonight you do not | :12:59. | :13:06. | |
see him as an innocent man? Well to not try to deliberate on TV whether | :13:07. | :13:14. | |
or not he is innocent. It is quite crucial to this. You are accusing | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
him of things he may or may not have done. In your mind he is not an | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
innocent man tonight? He is not innocent for the simple reason, the | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
Bush administration and the Obama administration have been quite | :13:27. | :13:34. | |
critical about Guantanamo Bay, but he has multiple reviews of his | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
record by objective and honourable military officers. | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
It's not a question of convicting him, it is looking at the record and | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
concluding there is insufficient evidence. I want to ask Moazzam | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
Begg, when you got home and looking at Shaker's position in society, do | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
you feel like an innocent man, you've heard this opinion from an | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
advocate of Guantanamo Bay, do you feel vindicated? We are talking | :14:10. | :14:11. | |
about countries that advocate the rule of law, countries that talk | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
about habeas corpus, the right to the body, either you are presented | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
with the evidence against you and prosecuted, or you are released. | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
There cannot be this third type of situation the gentleman here is | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
suggesting. Even Obama ordered the closure of Guantanamo. He said it is | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
an indefensible place. People are being executed dressed in orange | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
suits in Iraq by Isis, for example. It doesn't alarm you that there have | :14:39. | :14:46. | |
been fewer than 2% convicted? That is not a concern for you? For the | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
benefit of your viewers, in a military justice system, which is | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
very different from the criminal justice system. It does not mean it | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
is lacking due process. People were held for years in prisoners of war | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
camp, the vast majority not convicted in World War I and World | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
War II. It's not a question of conviction, whether there is | :15:14. | :15:15. | |
sufficient evidence to conclude he was an enemy combatant. Would you | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
keep the camp open? Would you keep it going? I'd keep Guantanamo open | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
but that's nothing to do with the question, this individual was given | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
the benefit of the doubt, numerous reviews were conducted and they | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
concluded he was a member of Al-Qaeda, which is a horrible | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
organisation. Shaker Aamer has been cleared by at least six agencies. He | :15:38. | :15:46. | |
was not cleared, that is a lie. He's been cleared by two consecutive US | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
governments and never did designated for trial even by military | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
commission which is the lowest standard. The process that exists... | :15:55. | :16:01. | |
You are misleading. If you look at the code of justice any advocate | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
from the military has not been trained to use that process, and | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
even in that process they were never charging Shaker Aamer. I don't know | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
on what basis you say he's guilty. He is not. He has been held in false | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
detention, kidnapped, rendered and tortured. I want to pick up on the | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
point in terms of the interrogation and torture. David Rivkin, are you | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
convinced that British authorities supported US authorities in what | :16:31. | :16:32. | |
they were doing to inmates in Guantanamo? I would be amazed. I | :16:33. | :16:42. | |
have no factual knowledge of what transpired at any particular time. I | :16:43. | :16:44. | |
be amazed if anybody was mistreated in Guantanamo. You say nobody was | :16:45. | :16:55. | |
tortured in Guantanamo Bay? Nobody was tortured in Guantanamo Bay. | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
Moazzam Begg. Have you missed completely the CAA report? Have you | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
lived in a different world completely? Why did Obama ordered | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
the closure of Guantanamo Bay knee came into power? Why did he say I'm | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
going to end torture. He accepted torture existed. You deny it took | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
place. The only place it didn't happen was in your brain. Torture | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
never took place in Guantanamo. President Obama misspoke or | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
misunderstood? President Obama was referring to an investigation at | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
so-called CIA black sites, different issue to what happened in | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
Guantanamo. Nobody alleged there was mistreatment in Guantanamo. Every | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
single prisoner and American soldiers who served there, and | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
including some American prosecutors like Matt Diaz who resigned from the | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
commission process said there was tortured taking place. That is total | :17:54. | :18:00. | |
rubbish. Captain said torture was taking place and numerous people who | :18:01. | :18:02. | |
served in Guantanamo said torture took place. What do you think | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
Guantanamo chief, David Rivkin? Guantanamo has been criticised and | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
we paid a price, I understand that. Guantanamo symbolises this is a real | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
war against an implacable enemy which if we don't win will cost us | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
dearly. This is not a criminal justice exercise and the vast | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
majority of European friends just don't get it. Why were over 670 | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
prisoners including myself released? If we are so dangerous why | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
are we free men? It doesn't make my sense will stop you made them had | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
mistakenly called us terrorists and the worst of the worst without any | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
legal process at all. Quite frankly this is nonsense. What you are left | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
with is a place that is a stain on the United States which you are | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
trying to defend. The viewers know what the recidivism rate of people | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
released from Guantanamo? Yes, I wrote a book and that is called | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
recidivism. And also the guys who made a film, it is called recidivism | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
because they made a film about Guantanamo, that is nonsense, | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
please! We've run out of time. Many people went back to fighting and | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
killing innocent civilians! We have run out of time, thank you for | :19:19. | :19:19. | |
coming in. Does the House | :19:20. | :19:20. | |
of Commons need to debate the need One Conservative MP - Philip Davies | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
- thinks the answer is yes. And he put his suggestion to | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
a backbench business committee. One of its members - Jess Philips - | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
the only woman on the board - said the gender imbalance, | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
not least of their own committee, "When I've got parity - when women | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
in these buildings have parity, then It could have ended there. | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
But it didn't. Jess Phillips joins us now from her | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
home in Birmingham, to explain. What happened, Jess Phillips? Hello. | :19:47. | :20:02. | |
What happened? Philip Davies came to the backbench | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
business committee and asked for, as you have outlined, asked for a | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
debate, International Men's Day debate, on the 19th of November. | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
I've not heard of it before. He led the charge in a sort of: The women | :20:16. | :20:23. | |
get one and a question session in Parliament so the men should have | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
one too. Then the fallout from it was that I spoke up against it, | :20:29. | :20:36. | |
which was presented by a certain newspaper that I had laughed and | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
joked about male suicide, men dying of cancer, young boys' education, | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
which obviously I did not do. And then I suffered a huge torrent of | :20:48. | :20:56. | |
very noisy abuse from men's rights activists, which very unfortunately | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
led to a very dark bit of the Internet calling for me to be raped, | :21:00. | :21:07. | |
banged and raped, raped publicly. And then when I published that on | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
Twitter then there was a torrent of people that said I was asking for | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
it, and it was my own fault. You called this a dark bit of the | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
Internet, do you think this is just a very small tiny section of it. Or | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
do you feel that what happened to you was fairly representative of | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
what happens to a woman? Well, there are many examples. Stella Creasy, | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
Kayla Mueller ran, the journalist has suffered from it. Caroline | :21:37. | :21:43. | |
Criado-Perez, suffered terribly. It is not in anyway just aimed at me so | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
it seems frilly, and. It goes immediately to sexual violence. | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
Philip Davies has done some pretty awful things that people have | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
criticised him on Twitter for today. Today he did a pretty awful thing to | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
carers. But I very much doubt that as a man anyone is threatening to | :22:05. | :22:13. | |
rape him and gag him and bind him. What has that done to your | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
perception of what happened? You said a paper criticised you for | :22:19. | :22:26. | |
laughing, or for treating its -- it lightly. Do you think any of your | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
behaviour was wrong in spite of what has happened since? If I was there | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
again I might not laugh at a man who was clearly not an equalities | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
champion, suggesting that... The thing that made me laugh was the | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
suggestion that men don't have an opportunity to speak up in the House | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
of Commons. Not any other things. If he'd come with a debate about male | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
suicide I would have been delighted to push that through. The reason he | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
didn't get his debate was because he didn't fill in the form properly, | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
nothing to do with me. Country to what you can read. Apps I wouldn't | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
be so flippant. I will protect myself in future. I will not | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
speaking up though, against people who frankly using quality as a tool | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
for their own ridiculous agenda -- I will not stop speaking up. Used to | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
think of politics as stuffy and out of reach of normal people. You know | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
what it is like to use an expletive or two against a colleague, Diane | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
Abbott in a PLP meeting, I'm thinking of. The fact you can call | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
her names, or burst out laughing at a suggestion, or that people are now | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
directly contacting you and you are reachable and relate about to, do | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
you think in one sense that is breaking down barriers between | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
people and politicians? It is and one of the things people said to me | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
since becoming an MP is that I speak like normal people, I have a normal | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
life and the way I react sometimes is sometimes a bit childish. I'm | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
only human. When I'm cross and angry I behave like most people do when | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
they are cross and angry, and maybe parliament will beat that out of me | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
eventually. But while there are a few idiots threatening to rape me | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
for being a woman with a big voice, the vast majority of people who | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
speak to me in my constituency, and on the Internet at large, are | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
delighted that there seems to be more humanity in the place. Anything | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
that makes a place with the amount of protocols and rules that | :24:31. | :24:38. | |
Parliament has. Jess Phillips, we've lost the link, we know where you | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
were going. Thank you, if you can still hear us. | :24:43. | :24:43. | |
How do you make an epic movie about someone who is already part | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
of so many of our daily lives, the man who invented Apple? | :24:48. | :24:49. | |
Aaron Sorkin - the scriptwriter who brought Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg's | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
Aaron Sorkin - the scriptwriter who brought Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg | :24:53. | :24:54. | |
to the big screen - was tasked with doing the same for Steve Jobs. | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
He teams up with Director Danny Boyle - to depict the | :24:59. | :25:00. | |
scenes backstage as Jobs prepares to face an audience of enthusiastic | :25:01. | :25:03. | |
The film out next month captures the entrepreneur's life, | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
In fact it depicts him as something of a brute. | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
Danny Boyle has been talking to Evan. | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
What do you do? You're not an engineer. | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
You're not a designer. You can't put a hammer to a nail. | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
I built the circuit board. The graphical interface was stolen. | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
So how come ten times in a day I read Steve jobs is a genius? | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
Your Steve Jobs has come out, I think a lot of people think, | :25:31. | :25:42. | |
as quite a jerk actually, quite unpleasant. | :25:43. | :25:44. | |
I think Michael's portrait of him is uncompromising | :25:45. | :25:52. | |
and what is extraordinary about his performance as well, and | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
obviously Aaron Sorkin's writing of it, was that you were not shielded | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
There are many people who would testify to great devotion to him | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
and the huge inspiration that they gain from him. | :26:05. | :26:06. | |
And other people felt they were very damaged. | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
You're issuing contradictory instructions, you're insubordinate, | :26:13. | :26:13. | |
You put together an opening ceremony for the Olympic Games. | :26:14. | :26:23. | |
I had to do a little bit of shouting at the International | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
Olympic Committee, but anybody, no matter what kind of person you are, | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
would shout at the International Olympic Committee at some point! | :26:30. | :26:36. | |
They say with film directors there is | :26:37. | :26:38. | |
That actually there are things that you're after that you will do | :26:39. | :26:56. | |
anything to get out, and there needs to be many differentiations in | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
But I believe in honesty. I try to be honest with people. | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
And I think that does bring the best out of them. | :27:05. | :27:06. | |
It's a system error. Fix it. | :27:07. | :27:08. | |
Fix it? Yeah! | :27:09. | :27:09. | |
We're not a pit crew at Daytona. This can't be fixed in seconds. | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
You didn't have seconds, you had three weeks. | :27:13. | :27:14. | |
The universe was created in a third of that time. | :27:15. | :27:16. | |
Well, someday you will have to tell us how you did it. | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
One of the things the film attracted is a bit of an argument about how | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
far a movie about a real guy can bend facts and have dramatic licence | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
I think it comes partly out of a despair | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
So what you end up developing, if you are dealing with real life, is | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
you end up developing a sense, and listen, this is not going to stand | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
up in a court of law, it's the bull shit sense where you go, it's the | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
bull shit detector, where you go, "I don't believe that." | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
You get that nightmare with actors where they go I'd think | :27:52. | :27:54. | |
my character would behave quite like this at this moment, which | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
fills you with this horror moment for a director, when you think, | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
But actually, it's very important because it's an internal moral | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
sense that you think we are being honest here and respectful. | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
You're arriving at that spot on a long lens looking that way. | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
Have you been annoyed at the argument that has raged | :28:12. | :28:13. | |
No, I think it's actually one of the reasons why I did the film. | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
Because, I think that a corporation like Apple is so powerful now are | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
Because, I think that a corporation like Apple is so powerful now, | :28:24. | :28:25. | |
so influential around the world, that it's crucial that writers and | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
artists tell the stories that they don't necessarily want you to tell. | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
I don't mean that you are digging out stuff about them | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
that's unacceptable behaviour wise or anything like that. | :28:35. | :28:36. | |
But you actually do tell stories about how it has happened that this | :28:37. | :28:43. | |
company that was born in a garage 40 years ago dominates | :28:44. | :28:45. | |
the world now and is richer than virtually all countries on earth | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
Do you feel like a Hollywood insider now? | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
You won an Oscar for Slumdog Millionaire. | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
But you are kind of like an independent film-maker | :28:57. | :28:58. | |
Are you a Hollywood person now? No, not really. | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
This is the first script I've ever done that we didn't generate | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
But then we made this film and we lived | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
And I kind of understood really. It's an extraordinary town. | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
And I come from Manchester originally, | :29:17. | :29:17. | |
which had a lot to do with the first Industrial Revolution. | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
And it's weird working in a town that is | :29:21. | :29:22. | |
a modern Industrial Revolution, like the updated version of it. | :29:23. | :29:24. | |
You got a sense of potential of how things are changing, | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
It's three years since the Olympic opening ceremony now. | :29:28. | :29:41. | |
Everybody said Danny Boyle produced a statement of our country that most | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
people thought, this is rather good, we are proud of this. | :29:46. | :29:56. | |
And it was a sort of statement of a modern nation at ease with itself. | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
I just wonder what you think about the state of Britain. | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
We are always in a state of total self-criticism. | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
The Olympic opening ceremony was a chance to say that | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
behind that there is a sense of a progressive, decent country | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
And we can encourage it, which I think is all you can do. | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
Has there been any dent in your view of Britain | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
as a country which is free and which has these core values? | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
The debate over migrants this summer, for example. | :30:23. | :30:24. | |
I think any hesitancy about resisting refugees coming to this | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
country just denies the very nature of what the country is built on. | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
I mean, we have always had a noble tradition of being a refuge for | :30:32. | :30:38. | |
people who, for whatever reason, are under threat and I think that's part | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
of our national identity and what makes us a great country really. | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
Are you filled with the joy of a new politics, or are you filled with | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
the horror of a man who you don't think can win the next election? | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
Which of the various narratives about Jeremy Corbyn do you buy into? | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
Shall we do a biopic of Jeremy Corbyn? | :31:00. | :31:01. | |
He's obviously a very admirable man and I admire the way that he has | :31:02. | :31:12. | |
maintained his own personal principles throughout his time, | :31:13. | :31:14. | |
Obviously your only concern is that in the sway of things, by the time | :31:15. | :31:23. | |
the back and forth has finished and you arrive at an election when | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
you have to make absolute decisions is, will the Labour Party remain a | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
proper force that can be a government really? | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
Now on Artsnight, George the Poet explores | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
the meaning of black culture in music, theatre, writing and | :31:39. | :31:41. |