13/11/2015 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.

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there are reports of many dead in Paris


in several major suspected terror attacks in the city.


There is an ongoing hostage situation at a Paris concert hall.


We'll have the latest news and analysis from Paris and London.


In Syria, two blows for ISIS, the likely death of the


British Kuwaiti Mohammed Emwazi, and their rout in Sinjar, So will


Isis be defeated by targetted drone strikes or hard fought combat?


And on Artsnight, Radio One DJ Clara Amfo looks


at how the celebrity machine works and meets one of the world's most


What is your interaction with the public like? You try to keep as far


away from the general public as possible, limit your interactions


with them, when you are successful and it is publicly noted, you become


a target. There is turmoil


in Paris tonight after suspected coordinated terror attacks that have


resulted in several deaths. French television is reporting


as many as 40 dead. There was a shootout in at least two


restaurants, one in the 10th arrondissement, and there were also


two explosions apparently caused by grenades in a bar near the Stade de


France, in the north of the city, where France was playing Germany


at football. But there are also reports that


there are hostages In the last few minutes David


Cameron has said, thoughts and prayers are with the French people,


we will do whatever we can to help. We will be looking at this


throughout the programme. We go over to Lucy Williamson, in Paris, first


of all, we are in the middle of all of this. There is reports of further


incidents at the Louvre. This situation is developing all of the


time, we now have confirmation we think of reports, we believe there


are fresh attacks taking place very recently in the last few minutes


tonight. As yet, we have no arrests, indeed, no shootings towards whoever


it was who cause the attacks. We certainly think the attackers are


still at large in Paris, no reports that they have been apprehended by


the police, and the security forces, as well as looking for those people,


are also trying to manage the hostage crisis that has unfolded at


a concert hall in the north-east of the city. We understand it is a jazz


concert Hall, packed on a Friday night, there is talk of 100


hostages. From what you know, who has been deployed? Local police? Who


else? CRS That is the information we are not getting clarity on, the


police are tight-lipped about what is happening. But we are getting


these reports that there may be 100 people held inside, we are also


getting reports, unconfirmed, that there may be 35 or 40 people killed


in the attack on the concert hall. One witness, who was inside the


hall, she managed to escape, she spoke with local media confirming


she had seen an attacker shoots someone in front of her, she managed


to get out, apparently, before becoming part of the situation. Many


resources, a lot of focus, put on trying to resolve that situation.


Also, in terms of what is being used, we hear reports of grenades


and Kalashnikovs. Coming from eyewitnesses, yet to be confirmed,


but we have reports that the gunmen who attacked the Asian restaurant,


the first reports we had, may have used a semiautomatic weapon. To


attack the customers. Another witness, inside the national


stadium, told local media that he believed there was two or three


grenades set off, and at least one person had been killed. This is a


picture changing all of the time, the number of dead seems too has


risen, is rising rapidly, as we go through the night. Francois Hollande


was at the friendly match, between Germany and France, he was brought


back. Has he said anything yet? He has gone into a crisis meeting with


the interior minister and the Prime Minister, to try to work out a


strategy to get control of the situation. If these latest reports


are true and the new attacks have taken place, as reports say they are


doing, then it would be multiple attacks, in Paris, within an hour or


two of each other, mostly in the centre, in some of the most famous


spots in the capital. Six attacks, maybe five attacks, taking place


tonight. That is yet to be confirmed. If reports are to be


believed, this could be an incredibly complicated, one of the


most widespread attacks that Paris has ever seen. Ten months ago,


Charlie Hebdo, no link, as far as anybody could ascertain, to Isis,


does anybody yet believe that this is an attack led by Isis? At the


moment very little is being said about the motives of the attackers


but of course, the nature of the attacks is going to have everybody


thinking about parallels, about bringing back the memories of the


Charlie Hebdo attack, the hostage situation, the gunmen entering the


building, in central Paris. The shocking nature of the attacks


themselves. There has been a lot of talk recently about France's role in


the conflict in Syria and Iraq. France is worried about people


coming back to France from those conflicts and causing these kind of


problems at homes. -- at home. That is going to be one of the primary


areas of investigation, as police go forward. Thank you very much.


What sense are you getting from the picture? Since the attack in


Mumbai, people in other major world cities have feared this scenario


that we are now seeing unfolding in Paris tonight. Multiple terrorists,


sowing death in different parts of a city, bringing complete paralysis,


of course, many misleading reports, panic, all of these things. A


massive effect across the city. The British have trained, I have been


aware of certain aspects of this in the last couple of years, training


and preparation. The French have trained this kind of contingency,


especially since Charlie Hebdo. Now we see it unfolding, I think that we


can assume that some of these early death tolls will be on the low side.


We hear that at the theatre but we have also seen pictures on social


media of multiple courses in other places. It is a truly dreadful


situation. The other thing, of course, the terrorists, by going for


a major world city, they are seizing opportunities like the football


match between France and Germany, going on at the Stade de France, and


we can see footage of audio where we can see the first bomb going outside


the stadium. The reports from the Stade de France


in particular suggest a couple of bombs outside initially but later


reports suggest people throwing hand grenades inside of the stadium, and


fans going down onto the pitch to try to escape them. Chaos there, at


a major international sporting fixture, president Francois Hollande


was at the fixture and was taken away, then we have the shooting


incidents come using Kalashnikovs, a hallmark of the Charlie Hebdo and


Mumbai style attack, and then the hostage situation, at the theatre,


where, anything up to 100 people main lb taken. With multiple gunmen.


We are hearing that people, resumes, have been told to stay in doors and


stay at home. -- hearing that people, Parisiens. That's jazz club,


the movement of the Pompidou Centre and Les Halles Shopping Mall and the


Louvre. Looking at this, several possible interpretations, one is


that the gunmen, as also happened in Mumbai and Charlie Hebdo, were


moving around, and shooting people in different places. Clearly there


was more than their work, there were multiple gunmen. It may there was


two distinct waves. Once the theatre was surrounded, with some gunmen


inside it, follow one incidents seem to have occurred, at Les Halles


Shopping Mall and other places, which suggests there was a


deliberate second wave to the attack. We will come back to you


later, as soon as we get more intelligence on that. Joining me


now. Nabila Ramdani, a French Algerian


journalist who specialises in terrorism, Nadhim


Zahawi, the Conservative MP who sits on the foreign affairs select


committee, and the Syria expert and war correspondent Janine Di


Giovanni, I was at that restaurant last week,


Petit Cambodge, in the 11th, one of the attack sites, apparently. A lot


of young people would go there on a Friday night, outdoor seating, the


weather has been nice. It is shocking and horrible but in a


sense, I think that the people of Paris have been geared up for this


since January, since Charlie Hebdo. You think there has been an air of


tension? Definitely, and also, a lot of vigilance, the country has been


on high alert. All of the major rail stations, Metros, you see armed


police, all of the time. There has been much more a sense of people


taking care of wheel caution. And again, France's role against Isis.


France has the least effective record on integration of their


people. Do you see this daily, the lack of integration? Alienation?


Absolutely. Immigrants feel disenfranchised, they live only on


the outskirts of Harry, -- Paris. That is the case of the brothers in


the Charlie Hebdo attack. This is your area, your area of expertise.


As the story started, initially, one might have thought it could have


been the settling of scores between gangs, rivalry. Happens quite often


in the South of France, big cities like Marseille, drug gangs, less so


in Paris, it must be said. But as the death toll kept rising, and


indeed, we kept learning more, this is multiple attacks across Paris,


which is a small village in comparison with London, all


locations will be close by. They are inevitable. This has all the


hallmarks of a major terrorist attack. Long planned. Kalashnikov


wielding gunman, bomb at motions involving grenades, hostagetaking


situations, corpses strewn on the streets of Paris, ambulances and


fire engines. What is particularly horrific about the situation, the


people involved... The criminals involved... They seem to have gone


after soft targets, talking about targeting people who are out on a


Friday night, relaxed, restaurants, concert halls. More information, the


police are now saying, 100 hostages are inside the concert hall, what


you know about Bataclan? Famous jazz club, would have been packed. Mainly


frequented by young people, very cheap to get a ticket... Very


attractive place, not only for residents of Paris but for students


visiting, tourists as well. It would be, dare I say, the perfect target


for a major incident. In terms of preparation, since Charlie Hebdo,


and plans and cordon nation, we know that... -- and plans and


coordination. More evidence of police at stations. How do you think


there has been an idea of combating terror since Charlie Hebdo? Has


there been a big change of plans? There has been, since Charlie Hebdo,


no doubt that France has been on its highest alert ever. Not least of all


because it has been struck in the heart of the capital city. It is a


western capital city as well. France is also involved in major conflict


zones abroad, Francois Hollande may be a socialist at home, but he is a


hawk when it comes to foreign policy. That makes France a possible


target for revenge attacks stop what we will pause, because Barack Obama


has just been speaking: Once again, we have seen an


outrageous attempt to terrorise innocent civilians. This is an


attack not just an Paris, it is an attack not just an the people of


France, but this is an attack on all of humanity and the universal values


that we share. We stand prepared to provide whatever assistance is


needed by the people of France and the government, to respond. Barack


Obama speaking a few moments ago. What do you make of this? I echo


what David Cameron has said, thoughts and prayers must be with


the victims and those that have been held hostage. We must stand united


against this evil, David Cameron is right to say that we will do


everything we can to help in any way that we can. There is coordination


across Europe, an anti-terrorism, we were successful a few weeks ago,


with the arrests in Italy, if you remember. This is a spectacular...


In terms of planning and preparation and the failure to even get a wind


of this? ! It feels horrific, bloodcurdling. These people have got


to get lucky only once... Police forces have got to get lucky every


single day. We have a bill before Parliament to help police and


agencies track these people electronically, it is important


that, fiercely, we get the details of this, we understand what has


happened. Clearly, what happened, in the Sinai, in Egypt, with the


Russian airliner... There seems to be a North African connection,


possibly. Early days, but it is important that we work together and


cordon eight. David Cameron is right to say that we will do everything we


can to help. We have just heard that the French president has said that


this is a terrorist attack on France without precedent.


How do you deal with the threat? We have to get lucky every day. Theresa


May has talked about the number of incidents we have thwarted. Mark


wants to come in. Well, a key aspect of this, as it was in Charlie Hebdo,


was how do you bring military-style firearms into a city like Paris or


indeed London? I had a conversation with a senior counter-terrorist


figure in the UK after the Charlie Hebdo thing, saying what is to stop


that happening here? He expressed confidence that the number of


firearms, a couple of hundred that is in circulation with the


underworld as one understood but in France the situation was different.


Clearly tonight, something terrible has happened in terms of the


quantity of weapons and explosives that somebody has managed to get


into that city. We will of course come back to events in Paris


tonight, but to other news now. According to a US official,


one British drone and two American ones worked together intimately


in the operation that targeted Mohammad Emwazi, who appeared


in Isis execution videos. David Cameron called the attack


on the torturer known as Jihadi John in a car in the Northern Syrian town


of Raqqa as "a strike at Emwazi apparently killed seven


hostages, including British aid workers


David Haines and Alan Henning. But perhaps


the more significant story this week, in terms of the war on Islamic


State, has been the sustained gains being made against their territory -


not least today's reclaiming of So which is the better guide


to how this war might be won? Here's our


diplomatic editor Mark Urban. The intelligence gathering operation


to find and target Mohammed Emwazi took months


and considerable resources. Last night, three different drones,


one British, and two American, were tracking him before an American


drone launched a missile into a car. And let us never forget he


killed many, many Muslims too. And he was intent


on murdering many more people. Emwazi had been the ring master


for the televised murder of James Foley, Steven Sotloff, David Haines,


Alan Henning and Peter Kassig. Some


of the freed hostages also reported But tonight,


family members didn't give in. Just sad, and I think we have to be


careful, as an American media, not He's a sad individual,


filled with hate for us. The car believed to be carrying


Mohammed Emwazi was hit right in the middle of Raqqa,


capital of the self-proclaimed Caliphate, and just yards


from the clock tower where IS staged There is something bigger going


on here though. Islamic State is on the defensive


in several different places Clearly Isis at the moment is


in a situation where it is facing battles on lots of different fronts,


but if we look at what is happening in Sinjar, my understanding is that


hasn't completely severed If we look


at the Russians hitting them in some places, it is not the sort


of overwhelming push we are seeing. What we are seeing is


a situation where they are dealing with pressure on multiple fronts,


but I don't think we can say it is On Sinjar,


Kurdish troops supported by British Special Forces, and more than 250


air strikes in the past month, have driven back IS, cutting the group's


key route between Raqqa and Mosul. Unfortunately the process for the


liberation of Mosul was delayed. Therefore, we were obliged


in order to make sure that step by step we would liberate


the areas which are important. Of course, the victory that was


achieved in Sinjar is very important, it is significant,


this is our response, and it is our revenge on the Isis and the


crimes they committed last year. The atrocities that were committed


by the Isis terrorists, and the crimes that were committed


amount to genocide. Therefore we are very pleased


today Sinjar was liberated. Across the border, a co-ordinated


push by the Syrian democratic forces, Kurdish-led but with


American special operators, have cleared 500 square kilometres of


Islamic State fighters in the past few weeks, and then over further


west, the Syrian Army with Iranian ground support and Russian backing


from the air, has broken the IS It all adds up to


significant pressure. Nobody thinks this week's


blows mark the end of IS. It's shown itself a fierce


and resilient adversary, but it's thought to have lost


its chief propagandist and is under pressure on multiple fronts now,


from the air and on the ground. The co-ordinateded attacks in Paris,


we have just heard that Francois Hollande has called a state of


emergency in France, and closed the French border. I mean, this is


absolutely huge, I mean clearly, either the intelligence is that


there is more to come, or it is stop people escaping. I think if we saw


what happened after the Charlie Hebdo events in Jan, there was a


series of event that went foreign a couple of days as people tried to


track down those responsible. If this is a bigger and more complex at


a tack there could be a wider web of people. France is in the most


difficult situation tonight, Presidents Holland took this step of


standing front and sentence in the alliance, since September, the


country has been bombing Syria, as well as Iraq, something few other


European countries wanted to do. His has taken this very difficult step


politically, and tonight, he is in the middle of this fresh crisis. I


saw one unconfirmed ifficult step politically, and tonight, he is in


the middle of this fresh crisis. I saw one unconfirmed report of


someone shouting "This is for Syria." We have seen reports people


said this was for Syria, and we have seen reports of people shouting aloo


alAqabar. At this moment, I don't think can't regard those as


definitive. We are joined by another two guests.


We will soon by joined by the former deputy editor of Liberation --


liberation. We no we are dealing with a substantial terrorist attack.


We have multiple targets struck, we have people using automatic weapons


and explosive devices. No arrests? We don't really know. It is an


unfolding situation. We have heard incidents going off all over the


placings, we don't know if we are dealing with five separate incidents


or groups who are mobile, who are making one journey to another in


vehicles or something else. It's a fluid situation, so we don't know


defintively what we are looking at, but what we know is we are looking


at people who have training to make explosive, training to use gun, and


obviously, a lot of preparation to do some sort of sub Stan shallot


attack like this. Let us go ever to the former deputy editor of


Liberation. What do you make of the announcement where you are in a


state of emergency? Well, it is obviously taking into account, the


shock the country is in, you should have seen the streets of Paris it is


really panic, and great anxiety. The President wanted to show that he is


still in charge, that the authorities are do whatever they


can, and that exceptional measures are taken to deal with an


exceptional and unprecedented situation. He announced that the


borders are closed, that the army has been called in reinforcement, to


secure the capital, so it is really a kind of war situation, that has


suddenly, you know, fallen on our heads. We can see that from the


shots we are seeing now, from outside that restaurant earlier,


people are being attended to in the streets, people being carried away.


What can you tell us, if you can tell us any more about what is


happening at the Bataclan concert place? There has been a lot of


hostages inside, people are talking about 60-80 hostages and the


President in his statement said that the situation was still under way,


and that assault was being given by the police, the elite forces of the


police have been called in, and there is a lot of shooting, so the


situation, the situationing is still ongoing, and probably the number of


dead will be much higher than it is already. We can see now what


happened. We can see scenes from inside Stade de France where there


are recorded images of people moving on to the pitch know not knowing


what would happen. The players, a the first explosion went off and we


heard reports that there were grenades thrown inside the stadium.


Can you tell us any more about that? No, it doesn't seem to have been


taking place inside the stadium, because the commentators, sports


commentators all telling us that the football match went on as if nothing


has happened, and people didn't react to the explosions thinking it


was just celebrations or atmosphere. But the thing about the staid de


France, people are probably still there and people won't want to get


on the trains back in to Paris because they don't know about the


trains either. Absolutely. Public transport will be massively watched


by French police. It has to be said that the French Government seems to,


you know, take to realise the absolute scale of this tragedy, not


only through its announcement, earlier we heard the French


President talking about multiple scenes of violence and then it went


to him describing the attacks as unprecedented attacks and then


declaring a state of emergency, and then going as far as mobilising the


army, so, in its wordings, but in its actions he is talking to his


close you know, advisers, and indeed his holding the equivalent of what


would be a Cobra meeting in transto catch the terrorists at an early


stage. We can go to a telephone call with Jonathan Hill who saw one of


the gunmen. What did you see and where are you? Currently the signal


is not great. I am on the Metro trying to get away from the area. I


was coming out of the Metro station, collecting cash from an ATM, 40, 50


yards away myself and two other friends heard two distinctive shots.


There was a guy... Very largely built. In the middle of the street,


shouting Allez, to get people in the restaurants.


With that... I am afraid the signal is very bad on the Metro so we have


to leave him but we can go to a recording of President Hollande.


TRANSLATION: My dear country Americas as I speak terrorist


attacks on an unprecedented scale are taking place in the Paris


region. There are several dozen dead, lots more wounded. It is


horrific. We have on my orders mobilised all the forces we can


muster in order to neutralise the terrorist threat, and to secure all


the affected areas. I have asked for military reinforcements, they too


are in the Paris area to make sure no new attack can take place.


Tell me though, you have a particular view of how Paris and the


French regard security? Well, its has to be said, mine it is evident


that France has massive security failure as we have seen with the


Charlie Hebdo incident. The Charlie Hebdo offices were a clear target.


They had been targeted by firebombs before, they clearly were supposed


to be under police security. It turned out they weren't. After the


attacks happened, we have seen police officers standing up on bike,


with no arms, and that is how the police reacted to a terrorist attack


in central Paris. We don't have much time here, but I want to ask you


what you think will be the reaction of other European countries,


particularly ones that are leading the battle against Isis. You can see


a ratcheting up of security across the continent. People have been


worried about this sort of at tack for some time. Your can look far


back as 2010 when people worried about a Mumbai-style attack. Now we


have seen it happening after the Charlie Hebdo attack, you saw


European forces looking at this could happen to them and training


for it, so you will see that as well. I think on the Continent in


particular, you will start to see people really starting... Because we


have open borders but tonight France has closed its borders as much as it


can. It has had to close its borders in response to this situation. We


can see the situation earlier in year in Belgium, where a plot, a


network that looked like it might have been trying to do something


similar was disrupted. We have seen other networks happening round the


Continent that going in this direction, when you see an incident


like this you will see others who will be inspired and try to stand on


the shoulders of giants and launch an attack on their own. What is the


latest Mark? Simply that the scale of this is immense, as you say,


France effectively is locked down now. I think the assessment is still


going on. I wouldn't be surprised in that French Government meeting if


security chiefs can't give Francois Hollande straight answers how many


were there, how many might still be at large on the streets. So, as we


lever you tonight, we are still in the middle of a situation in Paris,


there are more than 100 hostages in a jazz club, and also more than 40


people dead apparently, perhaps at the jazz club and more at the


restaurant. Francois Hollande has called a state of merge, is, the


borders are closed and in Paris the army are being deployed. People are


being told to stay at home. There is no identity, no notion of the


identity of the attackers or where they might strike necks. More on the


BBC News channel but now it is Artsnight. This week 's presenter is


Clara Amfo who will take us inside the fame industry.


She meets John Niven, author of the music business satire


Kill Your Friends, and the rapper 50 Cent - and this episode does contain


some strong language. In my job I regularly meet people whose lives


are splashed all over the Internet and newspapers. One day you are


heart and the next, well... Fame is a bizarre and fascinating thing. For


my edition of Artsnight I will get behind the machine of celebrity and


find out why people won fame and