13/11/2015 Newsnight


13/11/2015

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.


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there are reports of many dead in Paris

:00:00.:00:11.

in several major suspected terror attacks in the city.

:00:12.:00:14.

There is an ongoing hostage situation at a Paris concert hall.

:00:15.:00:16.

We'll have the latest news and analysis from Paris and London.

:00:17.:00:20.

In Syria, two blows for ISIS, the likely death of the

:00:21.:00:25.

British Kuwaiti Mohammed Emwazi, and their rout in Sinjar, So will

:00:26.:00:28.

Isis be defeated by targetted drone strikes or hard fought combat?

:00:29.:00:34.

And on Artsnight, Radio One DJ Clara Amfo looks

:00:35.:00:36.

at how the celebrity machine works and meets one of the world's most

:00:37.:00:39.

What is your interaction with the public like? You try to keep as far

:00:40.:00:54.

away from the general public as possible, limit your interactions

:00:55.:00:57.

with them, when you are successful and it is publicly noted, you become

:00:58.:00:59.

a target. There is turmoil

:01:00.:01:08.

in Paris tonight after suspected coordinated terror attacks that have

:01:09.:01:11.

resulted in several deaths. French television is reporting

:01:12.:01:18.

as many as 40 dead. There was a shootout in at least two

:01:19.:01:21.

restaurants, one in the 10th arrondissement, and there were also

:01:22.:01:24.

two explosions apparently caused by grenades in a bar near the Stade de

:01:25.:01:26.

France, in the north of the city, where France was playing Germany

:01:27.:01:30.

at football. But there are also reports that

:01:31.:01:31.

there are hostages In the last few minutes David

:01:32.:01:38.

Cameron has said, thoughts and prayers are with the French people,

:01:39.:01:42.

we will do whatever we can to help. We will be looking at this

:01:43.:01:49.

throughout the programme. We go over to Lucy Williamson, in Paris, first

:01:50.:01:53.

of all, we are in the middle of all of this. There is reports of further

:01:54.:02:00.

incidents at the Louvre. This situation is developing all of the

:02:01.:02:03.

time, we now have confirmation we think of reports, we believe there

:02:04.:02:12.

are fresh attacks taking place very recently in the last few minutes

:02:13.:02:19.

tonight. As yet, we have no arrests, indeed, no shootings towards whoever

:02:20.:02:25.

it was who cause the attacks. We certainly think the attackers are

:02:26.:02:28.

still at large in Paris, no reports that they have been apprehended by

:02:29.:02:32.

the police, and the security forces, as well as looking for those people,

:02:33.:02:37.

are also trying to manage the hostage crisis that has unfolded at

:02:38.:02:40.

a concert hall in the north-east of the city. We understand it is a jazz

:02:41.:02:45.

concert Hall, packed on a Friday night, there is talk of 100

:02:46.:02:53.

hostages. From what you know, who has been deployed? Local police? Who

:02:54.:02:59.

else? CRS That is the information we are not getting clarity on, the

:03:00.:03:04.

police are tight-lipped about what is happening. But we are getting

:03:05.:03:08.

these reports that there may be 100 people held inside, we are also

:03:09.:03:14.

getting reports, unconfirmed, that there may be 35 or 40 people killed

:03:15.:03:19.

in the attack on the concert hall. One witness, who was inside the

:03:20.:03:23.

hall, she managed to escape, she spoke with local media confirming

:03:24.:03:26.

she had seen an attacker shoots someone in front of her, she managed

:03:27.:03:32.

to get out, apparently, before becoming part of the situation. Many

:03:33.:03:38.

resources, a lot of focus, put on trying to resolve that situation.

:03:39.:03:43.

Also, in terms of what is being used, we hear reports of grenades

:03:44.:03:48.

and Kalashnikovs. Coming from eyewitnesses, yet to be confirmed,

:03:49.:03:52.

but we have reports that the gunmen who attacked the Asian restaurant,

:03:53.:03:57.

the first reports we had, may have used a semiautomatic weapon. To

:03:58.:04:01.

attack the customers. Another witness, inside the national

:04:02.:04:06.

stadium, told local media that he believed there was two or three

:04:07.:04:09.

grenades set off, and at least one person had been killed. This is a

:04:10.:04:13.

picture changing all of the time, the number of dead seems too has

:04:14.:04:18.

risen, is rising rapidly, as we go through the night. Francois Hollande

:04:19.:04:22.

was at the friendly match, between Germany and France, he was brought

:04:23.:04:28.

back. Has he said anything yet? He has gone into a crisis meeting with

:04:29.:04:32.

the interior minister and the Prime Minister, to try to work out a

:04:33.:04:34.

strategy to get control of the situation. If these latest reports

:04:35.:04:39.

are true and the new attacks have taken place, as reports say they are

:04:40.:04:43.

doing, then it would be multiple attacks, in Paris, within an hour or

:04:44.:04:48.

two of each other, mostly in the centre, in some of the most famous

:04:49.:04:53.

spots in the capital. Six attacks, maybe five attacks, taking place

:04:54.:04:57.

tonight. That is yet to be confirmed. If reports are to be

:04:58.:05:01.

believed, this could be an incredibly complicated, one of the

:05:02.:05:04.

most widespread attacks that Paris has ever seen. Ten months ago,

:05:05.:05:09.

Charlie Hebdo, no link, as far as anybody could ascertain, to Isis,

:05:10.:05:14.

does anybody yet believe that this is an attack led by Isis? At the

:05:15.:05:19.

moment very little is being said about the motives of the attackers

:05:20.:05:22.

but of course, the nature of the attacks is going to have everybody

:05:23.:05:26.

thinking about parallels, about bringing back the memories of the

:05:27.:05:30.

Charlie Hebdo attack, the hostage situation, the gunmen entering the

:05:31.:05:34.

building, in central Paris. The shocking nature of the attacks

:05:35.:05:38.

themselves. There has been a lot of talk recently about France's role in

:05:39.:05:43.

the conflict in Syria and Iraq. France is worried about people

:05:44.:05:46.

coming back to France from those conflicts and causing these kind of

:05:47.:05:51.

problems at homes. -- at home. That is going to be one of the primary

:05:52.:05:55.

areas of investigation, as police go forward. Thank you very much.

:05:56.:06:04.

What sense are you getting from the picture? Since the attack in

:06:05.:06:10.

Mumbai, people in other major world cities have feared this scenario

:06:11.:06:13.

that we are now seeing unfolding in Paris tonight. Multiple terrorists,

:06:14.:06:21.

sowing death in different parts of a city, bringing complete paralysis,

:06:22.:06:26.

of course, many misleading reports, panic, all of these things. A

:06:27.:06:30.

massive effect across the city. The British have trained, I have been

:06:31.:06:34.

aware of certain aspects of this in the last couple of years, training

:06:35.:06:38.

and preparation. The French have trained this kind of contingency,

:06:39.:06:42.

especially since Charlie Hebdo. Now we see it unfolding, I think that we

:06:43.:06:46.

can assume that some of these early death tolls will be on the low side.

:06:47.:06:51.

We hear that at the theatre but we have also seen pictures on social

:06:52.:06:54.

media of multiple courses in other places. It is a truly dreadful

:06:55.:07:00.

situation. The other thing, of course, the terrorists, by going for

:07:01.:07:06.

a major world city, they are seizing opportunities like the football

:07:07.:07:10.

match between France and Germany, going on at the Stade de France, and

:07:11.:07:15.

we can see footage of audio where we can see the first bomb going outside

:07:16.:07:17.

the stadium. The reports from the Stade de France

:07:18.:07:30.

in particular suggest a couple of bombs outside initially but later

:07:31.:07:33.

reports suggest people throwing hand grenades inside of the stadium, and

:07:34.:07:37.

fans going down onto the pitch to try to escape them. Chaos there, at

:07:38.:07:42.

a major international sporting fixture, president Francois Hollande

:07:43.:07:49.

was at the fixture and was taken away, then we have the shooting

:07:50.:07:53.

incidents come using Kalashnikovs, a hallmark of the Charlie Hebdo and

:07:54.:07:57.

Mumbai style attack, and then the hostage situation, at the theatre,

:07:58.:08:01.

where, anything up to 100 people main lb taken. With multiple gunmen.

:08:02.:08:08.

We are hearing that people, resumes, have been told to stay in doors and

:08:09.:08:13.

stay at home. -- hearing that people, Parisiens. That's jazz club,

:08:14.:08:20.

the movement of the Pompidou Centre and Les Halles Shopping Mall and the

:08:21.:08:27.

Louvre. Looking at this, several possible interpretations, one is

:08:28.:08:32.

that the gunmen, as also happened in Mumbai and Charlie Hebdo, were

:08:33.:08:36.

moving around, and shooting people in different places. Clearly there

:08:37.:08:40.

was more than their work, there were multiple gunmen. It may there was

:08:41.:08:46.

two distinct waves. Once the theatre was surrounded, with some gunmen

:08:47.:08:51.

inside it, follow one incidents seem to have occurred, at Les Halles

:08:52.:08:55.

Shopping Mall and other places, which suggests there was a

:08:56.:08:58.

deliberate second wave to the attack. We will come back to you

:08:59.:09:03.

later, as soon as we get more intelligence on that. Joining me

:09:04.:09:05.

now. Nabila Ramdani, a French Algerian

:09:06.:09:12.

journalist who specialises in terrorism, Nadhim

:09:13.:09:13.

Zahawi, the Conservative MP who sits on the foreign affairs select

:09:14.:09:16.

committee, and the Syria expert and war correspondent Janine Di

:09:17.:09:20.

Giovanni, I was at that restaurant last week,

:09:21.:09:34.

Petit Cambodge, in the 11th, one of the attack sites, apparently. A lot

:09:35.:09:41.

of young people would go there on a Friday night, outdoor seating, the

:09:42.:09:45.

weather has been nice. It is shocking and horrible but in a

:09:46.:09:48.

sense, I think that the people of Paris have been geared up for this

:09:49.:09:53.

since January, since Charlie Hebdo. You think there has been an air of

:09:54.:09:59.

tension? Definitely, and also, a lot of vigilance, the country has been

:10:00.:10:04.

on high alert. All of the major rail stations, Metros, you see armed

:10:05.:10:10.

police, all of the time. There has been much more a sense of people

:10:11.:10:15.

taking care of wheel caution. And again, France's role against Isis.

:10:16.:10:29.

France has the least effective record on integration of their

:10:30.:10:37.

people. Do you see this daily, the lack of integration? Alienation?

:10:38.:10:52.

Absolutely. Immigrants feel disenfranchised, they live only on

:10:53.:10:58.

the outskirts of Harry, -- Paris. That is the case of the brothers in

:10:59.:11:02.

the Charlie Hebdo attack. This is your area, your area of expertise.

:11:03.:11:09.

As the story started, initially, one might have thought it could have

:11:10.:11:12.

been the settling of scores between gangs, rivalry. Happens quite often

:11:13.:11:21.

in the South of France, big cities like Marseille, drug gangs, less so

:11:22.:11:26.

in Paris, it must be said. But as the death toll kept rising, and

:11:27.:11:33.

indeed, we kept learning more, this is multiple attacks across Paris,

:11:34.:11:37.

which is a small village in comparison with London, all

:11:38.:11:41.

locations will be close by. They are inevitable. This has all the

:11:42.:11:43.

hallmarks of a major terrorist attack. Long planned. Kalashnikov

:11:44.:11:50.

wielding gunman, bomb at motions involving grenades, hostagetaking

:11:51.:11:56.

situations, corpses strewn on the streets of Paris, ambulances and

:11:57.:12:03.

fire engines. What is particularly horrific about the situation, the

:12:04.:12:08.

people involved... The criminals involved... They seem to have gone

:12:09.:12:13.

after soft targets, talking about targeting people who are out on a

:12:14.:12:17.

Friday night, relaxed, restaurants, concert halls. More information, the

:12:18.:12:22.

police are now saying, 100 hostages are inside the concert hall, what

:12:23.:12:30.

you know about Bataclan? Famous jazz club, would have been packed. Mainly

:12:31.:12:35.

frequented by young people, very cheap to get a ticket... Very

:12:36.:12:42.

attractive place, not only for residents of Paris but for students

:12:43.:12:47.

visiting, tourists as well. It would be, dare I say, the perfect target

:12:48.:12:54.

for a major incident. In terms of preparation, since Charlie Hebdo,

:12:55.:12:59.

and plans and cordon nation, we know that... -- and plans and

:13:00.:13:05.

coordination. More evidence of police at stations. How do you think

:13:06.:13:10.

there has been an idea of combating terror since Charlie Hebdo? Has

:13:11.:13:16.

there been a big change of plans? There has been, since Charlie Hebdo,

:13:17.:13:21.

no doubt that France has been on its highest alert ever. Not least of all

:13:22.:13:27.

because it has been struck in the heart of the capital city. It is a

:13:28.:13:33.

western capital city as well. France is also involved in major conflict

:13:34.:13:38.

zones abroad, Francois Hollande may be a socialist at home, but he is a

:13:39.:13:43.

hawk when it comes to foreign policy. That makes France a possible

:13:44.:13:48.

target for revenge attacks stop what we will pause, because Barack Obama

:13:49.:13:50.

has just been speaking: Once again, we have seen an

:13:51.:13:58.

outrageous attempt to terrorise innocent civilians. This is an

:13:59.:14:04.

attack not just an Paris, it is an attack not just an the people of

:14:05.:14:09.

France, but this is an attack on all of humanity and the universal values

:14:10.:14:20.

that we share. We stand prepared to provide whatever assistance is

:14:21.:14:22.

needed by the people of France and the government, to respond. Barack

:14:23.:14:27.

Obama speaking a few moments ago. What do you make of this? I echo

:14:28.:14:33.

what David Cameron has said, thoughts and prayers must be with

:14:34.:14:37.

the victims and those that have been held hostage. We must stand united

:14:38.:14:41.

against this evil, David Cameron is right to say that we will do

:14:42.:14:44.

everything we can to help in any way that we can. There is coordination

:14:45.:14:50.

across Europe, an anti-terrorism, we were successful a few weeks ago,

:14:51.:14:55.

with the arrests in Italy, if you remember. This is a spectacular...

:14:56.:15:01.

In terms of planning and preparation and the failure to even get a wind

:15:02.:15:05.

of this? ! It feels horrific, bloodcurdling. These people have got

:15:06.:15:11.

to get lucky only once... Police forces have got to get lucky every

:15:12.:15:15.

single day. We have a bill before Parliament to help police and

:15:16.:15:19.

agencies track these people electronically, it is important

:15:20.:15:23.

that, fiercely, we get the details of this, we understand what has

:15:24.:15:27.

happened. Clearly, what happened, in the Sinai, in Egypt, with the

:15:28.:15:32.

Russian airliner... There seems to be a North African connection,

:15:33.:15:37.

possibly. Early days, but it is important that we work together and

:15:38.:15:41.

cordon eight. David Cameron is right to say that we will do everything we

:15:42.:15:45.

can to help. We have just heard that the French president has said that

:15:46.:15:49.

this is a terrorist attack on France without precedent.

:15:50.:15:56.

How do you deal with the threat? We have to get lucky every day. Theresa

:15:57.:16:05.

May has talked about the number of incidents we have thwarted. Mark

:16:06.:16:11.

wants to come in. Well, a key aspect of this, as it was in Charlie Hebdo,

:16:12.:16:16.

was how do you bring military-style firearms into a city like Paris or

:16:17.:16:22.

indeed London? I had a conversation with a senior counter-terrorist

:16:23.:16:25.

figure in the UK after the Charlie Hebdo thing, saying what is to stop

:16:26.:16:29.

that happening here? He expressed confidence that the number of

:16:30.:16:34.

firearms, a couple of hundred that is in circulation with the

:16:35.:16:38.

underworld as one understood but in France the situation was different.

:16:39.:16:42.

Clearly tonight, something terrible has happened in terms of the

:16:43.:16:45.

quantity of weapons and explosives that somebody has managed to get

:16:46.:16:50.

into that city. We will of course come back to events in Paris

:16:51.:16:52.

tonight, but to other news now. According to a US official,

:16:53.:16:55.

one British drone and two American ones worked together intimately

:16:56.:16:57.

in the operation that targeted Mohammad Emwazi, who appeared

:16:58.:17:00.

in Isis execution videos. David Cameron called the attack

:17:01.:17:02.

on the torturer known as Jihadi John in a car in the Northern Syrian town

:17:03.:17:04.

of Raqqa as "a strike at Emwazi apparently killed seven

:17:05.:17:08.

hostages, including British aid workers

:17:09.:17:10.

David Haines and Alan Henning. But perhaps

:17:11.:17:13.

the more significant story this week, in terms of the war on Islamic

:17:14.:17:15.

State, has been the sustained gains being made against their territory -

:17:16.:17:18.

not least today's reclaiming of So which is the better guide

:17:19.:17:23.

to how this war might be won? Here's our

:17:24.:17:28.

diplomatic editor Mark Urban. The intelligence gathering operation

:17:29.:17:34.

to find and target Mohammed Emwazi took months

:17:35.:17:36.

and considerable resources. Last night, three different drones,

:17:37.:17:40.

one British, and two American, were tracking him before an American

:17:41.:17:45.

drone launched a missile into a car. And let us never forget he

:17:46.:17:51.

killed many, many Muslims too. And he was intent

:17:52.:18:00.

on murdering many more people. Emwazi had been the ring master

:18:01.:18:04.

for the televised murder of James Foley, Steven Sotloff, David Haines,

:18:05.:18:11.

Alan Henning and Peter Kassig. Some

:18:12.:18:17.

of the freed hostages also reported But tonight,

:18:18.:18:21.

family members didn't give in. Just sad, and I think we have to be

:18:22.:18:29.

careful, as an American media, not He's a sad individual,

:18:30.:18:37.

filled with hate for us. The car believed to be carrying

:18:38.:18:48.

Mohammed Emwazi was hit right in the middle of Raqqa,

:18:49.:18:54.

capital of the self-proclaimed Caliphate, and just yards

:18:55.:18:57.

from the clock tower where IS staged There is something bigger going

:18:58.:19:00.

on here though. Islamic State is on the defensive

:19:01.:19:11.

in several different places Clearly Isis at the moment is

:19:12.:19:14.

in a situation where it is facing battles on lots of different fronts,

:19:15.:19:20.

but if we look at what is happening in Sinjar, my understanding is that

:19:21.:19:25.

hasn't completely severed If we look

:19:26.:19:28.

at the Russians hitting them in some places, it is not the sort

:19:29.:19:34.

of overwhelming push we are seeing. What we are seeing is

:19:35.:19:37.

a situation where they are dealing with pressure on multiple fronts,

:19:38.:19:40.

but I don't think we can say it is On Sinjar,

:19:41.:19:43.

Kurdish troops supported by British Special Forces, and more than 250

:19:44.:19:48.

air strikes in the past month, have driven back IS, cutting the group's

:19:49.:19:54.

key route between Raqqa and Mosul. Unfortunately the process for the

:19:55.:19:59.

liberation of Mosul was delayed. Therefore, we were obliged

:20:00.:20:05.

in order to make sure that step by step we would liberate

:20:06.:20:09.

the areas which are important. Of course, the victory that was

:20:10.:20:15.

achieved in Sinjar is very important, it is significant,

:20:16.:20:17.

this is our response, and it is our revenge on the Isis and the

:20:18.:20:20.

crimes they committed last year. The atrocities that were committed

:20:21.:20:23.

by the Isis terrorists, and the crimes that were committed

:20:24.:20:26.

amount to genocide. Therefore we are very pleased

:20:27.:20:30.

today Sinjar was liberated. Across the border, a co-ordinated

:20:31.:20:35.

push by the Syrian democratic forces, Kurdish-led but with

:20:36.:20:42.

American special operators, have cleared 500 square kilometres of

:20:43.:20:45.

Islamic State fighters in the past few weeks, and then over further

:20:46.:20:48.

west, the Syrian Army with Iranian ground support and Russian backing

:20:49.:20:51.

from the air, has broken the IS It all adds up to

:20:52.:20:55.

significant pressure. Nobody thinks this week's

:20:56.:21:10.

blows mark the end of IS. It's shown itself a fierce

:21:11.:21:12.

and resilient adversary, but it's thought to have lost

:21:13.:21:16.

its chief propagandist and is under pressure on multiple fronts now,

:21:17.:21:19.

from the air and on the ground. The co-ordinateded attacks in Paris,

:21:20.:21:39.

we have just heard that Francois Hollande has called a state of

:21:40.:21:43.

emergency in France, and closed the French border. I mean, this is

:21:44.:21:48.

absolutely huge, I mean clearly, either the intelligence is that

:21:49.:21:51.

there is more to come, or it is stop people escaping. I think if we saw

:21:52.:21:56.

what happened after the Charlie Hebdo events in Jan, there was a

:21:57.:22:00.

series of event that went foreign a couple of days as people tried to

:22:01.:22:04.

track down those responsible. If this is a bigger and more complex at

:22:05.:22:09.

a tack there could be a wider web of people. France is in the most

:22:10.:22:14.

difficult situation tonight, Presidents Holland took this step of

:22:15.:22:20.

standing front and sentence in the alliance, since September, the

:22:21.:22:23.

country has been bombing Syria, as well as Iraq, something few other

:22:24.:22:28.

European countries wanted to do. His has taken this very difficult step

:22:29.:22:31.

politically, and tonight, he is in the middle of this fresh crisis. I

:22:32.:22:38.

saw one unconfirmed ifficult step politically, and tonight, he is in

:22:39.:22:40.

the middle of this fresh crisis. I saw one unconfirmed report of

:22:41.:22:42.

someone shouting "This is for Syria." We have seen reports people

:22:43.:22:47.

said this was for Syria, and we have seen reports of people shouting aloo

:22:48.:22:52.

alAqabar. At this moment, I don't think can't regard those as

:22:53.:22:59.

definitive. We are joined by another two guests.

:23:00.:23:09.

We will soon by joined by the former deputy editor of Liberation --

:23:10.:23:14.

liberation. We no we are dealing with a substantial terrorist attack.

:23:15.:23:19.

We have multiple targets struck, we have people using automatic weapons

:23:20.:23:24.

and explosive devices. No arrests? We don't really know. It is an

:23:25.:23:30.

unfolding situation. We have heard incidents going off all over the

:23:31.:23:34.

placings, we don't know if we are dealing with five separate incidents

:23:35.:23:37.

or groups who are mobile, who are making one journey to another in

:23:38.:23:40.

vehicles or something else. It's a fluid situation, so we don't know

:23:41.:23:44.

defintively what we are looking at, but what we know is we are looking

:23:45.:23:49.

at people who have training to make explosive, training to use gun, and

:23:50.:23:53.

obviously, a lot of preparation to do some sort of sub Stan shallot

:23:54.:24:00.

attack like this. Let us go ever to the former deputy editor of

:24:01.:24:03.

Liberation. What do you make of the announcement where you are in a

:24:04.:24:11.

state of emergency? Well, it is obviously taking into account, the

:24:12.:24:14.

shock the country is in, you should have seen the streets of Paris it is

:24:15.:24:21.

really panic, and great anxiety. The President wanted to show that he is

:24:22.:24:24.

still in charge, that the authorities are do whatever they

:24:25.:24:29.

can, and that exceptional measures are taken to deal with an

:24:30.:24:34.

exceptional and unprecedented situation. He announced that the

:24:35.:24:38.

borders are closed, that the army has been called in reinforcement, to

:24:39.:24:44.

secure the capital, so it is really a kind of war situation, that has

:24:45.:24:48.

suddenly, you know, fallen on our heads. We can see that from the

:24:49.:24:53.

shots we are seeing now, from outside that restaurant earlier,

:24:54.:24:57.

people are being attended to in the streets, people being carried away.

:24:58.:25:00.

What can you tell us, if you can tell us any more about what is

:25:01.:25:04.

happening at the Bataclan concert place? There has been a lot of

:25:05.:25:11.

hostages inside, people are talking about 60-80 hostages and the

:25:12.:25:15.

President in his statement said that the situation was still under way,

:25:16.:25:22.

and that assault was being given by the police, the elite forces of the

:25:23.:25:26.

police have been called in, and there is a lot of shooting, so the

:25:27.:25:31.

situation, the situationing is still ongoing, and probably the number of

:25:32.:25:34.

dead will be much higher than it is already. We can see now what

:25:35.:25:40.

happened. We can see scenes from inside Stade de France where there

:25:41.:25:44.

are recorded images of people moving on to the pitch know not knowing

:25:45.:25:49.

what would happen. The players, a the first explosion went off and we

:25:50.:25:52.

heard reports that there were grenades thrown inside the stadium.

:25:53.:25:55.

Can you tell us any more about that? No, it doesn't seem to have been

:25:56.:26:02.

taking place inside the stadium, because the commentators, sports

:26:03.:26:05.

commentators all telling us that the football match went on as if nothing

:26:06.:26:10.

has happened, and people didn't react to the explosions thinking it

:26:11.:26:15.

was just celebrations or atmosphere. But the thing about the staid de

:26:16.:26:19.

France, people are probably still there and people won't want to get

:26:20.:26:22.

on the trains back in to Paris because they don't know about the

:26:23.:26:29.

trains either. Absolutely. Public transport will be massively watched

:26:30.:26:32.

by French police. It has to be said that the French Government seems to,

:26:33.:26:36.

you know, take to realise the absolute scale of this tragedy, not

:26:37.:26:41.

only through its announcement, earlier we heard the French

:26:42.:26:45.

President talking about multiple scenes of violence and then it went

:26:46.:26:49.

to him describing the attacks as unprecedented attacks and then

:26:50.:26:52.

declaring a state of emergency, and then going as far as mobilising the

:26:53.:26:59.

army, so, in its wordings, but in its actions he is talking to his

:27:00.:27:05.

close you know, advisers, and indeed his holding the equivalent of what

:27:06.:27:10.

would be a Cobra meeting in transto catch the terrorists at an early

:27:11.:27:15.

stage. We can go to a telephone call with Jonathan Hill who saw one of

:27:16.:27:19.

the gunmen. What did you see and where are you? Currently the signal

:27:20.:27:24.

is not great. I am on the Metro trying to get away from the area. I

:27:25.:27:36.

was coming out of the Metro station, collecting cash from an ATM, 40, 50

:27:37.:27:42.

yards away myself and two other friends heard two distinctive shots.

:27:43.:27:48.

There was a guy... Very largely built. In the middle of the street,

:27:49.:27:58.

shouting Allez, to get people in the restaurants.

:27:59.:28:03.

With that... I am afraid the signal is very bad on the Metro so we have

:28:04.:28:12.

to leave him but we can go to a recording of President Hollande.

:28:13.:28:17.

TRANSLATION: My dear country Americas as I speak terrorist

:28:18.:28:20.

attacks on an unprecedented scale are taking place in the Paris

:28:21.:28:25.

region. There are several dozen dead, lots more wounded. It is

:28:26.:28:29.

horrific. We have on my orders mobilised all the forces we can

:28:30.:28:33.

muster in order to neutralise the terrorist threat, and to secure all

:28:34.:28:38.

the affected areas. I have asked for military reinforcements, they too

:28:39.:28:42.

are in the Paris area to make sure no new attack can take place.

:28:43.:28:50.

Tell me though, you have a particular view of how Paris and the

:28:51.:28:54.

French regard security? Well, its has to be said, mine it is evident

:28:55.:28:58.

that France has massive security failure as we have seen with the

:28:59.:29:02.

Charlie Hebdo incident. The Charlie Hebdo offices were a clear target.

:29:03.:29:07.

They had been targeted by firebombs before, they clearly were supposed

:29:08.:29:10.

to be under police security. It turned out they weren't. After the

:29:11.:29:14.

attacks happened, we have seen police officers standing up on bike,

:29:15.:29:19.

with no arms, and that is how the police reacted to a terrorist attack

:29:20.:29:23.

in central Paris. We don't have much time here, but I want to ask you

:29:24.:29:26.

what you think will be the reaction of other European countries,

:29:27.:29:30.

particularly ones that are leading the battle against Isis. You can see

:29:31.:29:34.

a ratcheting up of security across the continent. People have been

:29:35.:29:37.

worried about this sort of at tack for some time. Your can look far

:29:38.:29:43.

back as 2010 when people worried about a Mumbai-style attack. Now we

:29:44.:29:46.

have seen it happening after the Charlie Hebdo attack, you saw

:29:47.:29:50.

European forces looking at this could happen to them and training

:29:51.:29:53.

for it, so you will see that as well. I think on the Continent in

:29:54.:29:57.

particular, you will start to see people really starting... Because we

:29:58.:30:02.

have open borders but tonight France has closed its borders as much as it

:30:03.:30:07.

can. It has had to close its borders in response to this situation. We

:30:08.:30:11.

can see the situation earlier in year in Belgium, where a plot, a

:30:12.:30:15.

network that looked like it might have been trying to do something

:30:16.:30:21.

similar was disrupted. We have seen other networks happening round the

:30:22.:30:23.

Continent that going in this direction, when you see an incident

:30:24.:30:27.

like this you will see others who will be inspired and try to stand on

:30:28.:30:31.

the shoulders of giants and launch an attack on their own. What is the

:30:32.:30:35.

latest Mark? Simply that the scale of this is immense, as you say,

:30:36.:30:39.

France effectively is locked down now. I think the assessment is still

:30:40.:30:47.

going on. I wouldn't be surprised in that French Government meeting if

:30:48.:30:51.

security chiefs can't give Francois Hollande straight answers how many

:30:52.:30:54.

were there, how many might still be at large on the streets. So, as we

:30:55.:30:58.

lever you tonight, we are still in the middle of a situation in Paris,

:30:59.:31:03.

there are more than 100 hostages in a jazz club, and also more than 40

:31:04.:31:07.

people dead apparently, perhaps at the jazz club and more at the

:31:08.:31:13.

restaurant. Francois Hollande has called a state of merge, is, the

:31:14.:31:17.

borders are closed and in Paris the army are being deployed. People are

:31:18.:31:21.

being told to stay at home. There is no identity, no notion of the

:31:22.:31:24.

identity of the attackers or where they might strike necks. More on the

:31:25.:31:28.

BBC News channel but now it is Artsnight. This week 's presenter is

:31:29.:31:34.

Clara Amfo who will take us inside the fame industry.

:31:35.:31:40.

She meets John Niven, author of the music business satire

:31:41.:31:42.

Kill Your Friends, and the rapper 50 Cent - and this episode does contain

:31:43.:31:45.

some strong language. In my job I regularly meet people whose lives

:31:46.:31:55.

are splashed all over the Internet and newspapers. One day you are

:31:56.:32:01.

heart and the next, well... Fame is a bizarre and fascinating thing. For

:32:02.:32:07.

my edition of Artsnight I will get behind the machine of celebrity and

:32:08.:32:10.

find out why people won fame and

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