03/12/2015 Newsnight


03/12/2015

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 03/12/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

It didn't take long for military action to start,

:00:07.:00:08.

57 minutes after the vote in the Commons.

:00:09.:00:12.

Yesterday MPs showed their inclination for air strikes.

:00:13.:00:15.

But do we have the ability for a sustained and effective campaign?

:00:16.:00:25.

The Syria operation will plays another great burden on the royal

:00:26.:00:33.

air force, I'm confident they will be ready for that, but there is

:00:34.:00:37.

always the possibility of overstretching an already stretched

:00:38.:00:38.

military. he has a ground force ready to

:00:39.:00:41.

attack IS, but there's a snag. Also tonight,

:00:42.:00:45.

they're counting the votes in the Oldham by-election, but meanwhile

:00:46.:00:47.

Labour MPs are preoccupied by We'll hear from an MP complaining

:00:48.:00:49.

of online attacks and ask what the party leadership

:00:50.:00:53.

plans to do about it. I am worried that social media may

:00:54.:00:58.

be poisoning politics, people who are spilling abuse, bile, bullying,

:00:59.:01:04.

it is not conducive to the way that we should do politics in this

:01:05.:01:06.

country. This is like an episode of Bake Off

:01:07.:01:37.

that I missed Chris Arquin LAUGHTER -- that I missed (!) LAUGHTER

:01:38.:01:45.

So, the first British sorties into Syria were described as successful.

:01:46.:01:48.

But what about day 100, or day 1,000?

:01:49.:01:52.

We have, after all, been told to expect a long campaign.

:01:53.:01:55.

Will we be out in three years? There are no guarantees.

:01:56.:01:57.

Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban looks at how effective

:01:58.:01:59.

and how sustained our military effort might be.

:02:00.:02:01.

VOICEOVER: Britain is moving its campaign against the self-proclaimed

:02:02.:02:04.

Islamic State into a different gear, doubling the number of jets flying

:02:05.:02:11.

from Cyprus, and leaving many wondering how role this will go on

:02:12.:02:17.

and how it will end. Let's be clear, I do not think there is any military

:02:18.:02:22.

solution to the region, but the military can provide the time and

:02:23.:02:26.

space for a political solution to grow roots, and I have no doubt,

:02:27.:02:30.

that my military colleagues will tackle that challenge with great

:02:31.:02:35.

courage, professionalism and determination, I just hope that is

:02:36.:02:41.

matched by political masters over the long-term. Last night's strike

:02:42.:02:45.

by four Tornados in an oilfield in eastern Syria has upped Britain's

:02:46.:02:50.

role, in what is a large coalition. The US-led effort has conducted a

:02:51.:02:59.

total of 8573 strikes in Iraq and Syria, since it all began. By

:03:00.:03:06.

comparison, the UK has carried out 380 strikes, in Iraq, with the

:03:07.:03:10.

tornadoes and Reaper drones that it is already operating, just over 4%

:03:11.:03:16.

of the total, 7% of the strikes in Iraq. Russia, since its dramatic

:03:17.:03:21.

entry into the conflict two months ago, has managed over 2300 strikes

:03:22.:03:27.

but there is some dispute about how they count them, far more common in

:03:28.:03:33.

any case, than Britain can do. Then we will have some token aircraft

:03:34.:03:36.

over there from the British, they will drop a few bombs, we will say

:03:37.:03:42.

thank you very much, and we will... The president will be able to say, "

:03:43.:03:46.

now we have the British helping us! " And that is good. Not achieve

:03:47.:03:52.

nothing, they will achieve a little something, but air strikes alone

:03:53.:03:56.

will not win a conflict. In truth, with the RAF at its current size,

:03:57.:04:02.

all it can hope to be is a junior, if effective member of an

:04:03.:04:07.

international coalition. And now that 16 jets have been committed to

:04:08.:04:12.

this operation, there really is no more slack in the system. With the

:04:13.:04:17.

Defence Secretary saying that they may have two bomb for years, if

:04:18.:04:19.

necessary, the cabinet must be may have two bomb for years, if

:04:20.:04:23.

hoping that there are no other crises that emerge anywhere else.

:04:24.:04:33.

How much will the new typhoons contribute to degrading I S? They

:04:34.:04:38.

can drop bombs but a smaller variety of them than the tornado, some

:04:39.:04:45.

experts argue that Typhoon's best role maybe as a fighter in dangerous

:04:46.:04:52.

skies. With the tornado having an optimised air to ground radar, and

:04:53.:04:57.

heavily laden with weapons and sensors, it may well be that the

:04:58.:05:02.

typhoon, because of the enhanced air to air threat, possibly, they are

:05:03.:05:06.

putting out the typhoon as an escort. It may be that the packages

:05:07.:05:14.

that go in will go in with four Tornados and two typhoons. Five

:05:15.:05:20.

front line typhoons woodlands, 12 jets each. -- squadrons. 12 are

:05:21.:05:25.

required to defend the UK, then there is Baltic air policing and the

:05:26.:05:28.

defence of the Falklands, leaving around to squadrons spare, which

:05:29.:05:34.

will be needed to sustain the six playing the poignant in Cyprus. The

:05:35.:05:39.

only other aircraft the RAF has that can bomb, the ageing tornado, and

:05:40.:05:44.

that is also now fully committed. All of that is in the future, there

:05:45.:05:48.

is no doubt that over the short-term, the commitment to the

:05:49.:05:53.

Syria operation is going to place another greater burden on the royal

:05:54.:05:56.

air force. I'm confident they will be ready for that, but there is

:05:57.:06:01.

always implications of overstretching an already stretched

:06:02.:06:07.

military. Russia, America, France and the UK are all now bombing

:06:08.:06:10.

Islamic State in Syria, the organisation is under intense

:06:11.:06:14.

pressure. For Britain, upping and sustaining involvement will not be

:06:15.:06:20.

easy, but in its own way, that is evidence of a significant national

:06:21.:06:21.

commitment. STUDIO: Mark Urban reporting

:06:22.:06:39.

with some military maths. The air strikes are just one part

:06:40.:06:41.

of what we are told is the British The other is some kind

:06:42.:06:44.

of settlement for the future of Syria, that might provide

:06:45.:06:47.

an army and an alternative to IS. Lyse Doucet is the BBC's Chief

:06:48.:06:50.

International Correspondent Last night we spoke with you, for

:06:51.:06:56.

the immediate response, but you have spoken with the Syrian government is

:06:57.:06:59.

now, what is their take on this British intervention? The tape is in

:07:00.:07:04.

two parts, first, the information minister, all of the senior

:07:05.:07:07.

officials, say that Britain is basically breaking international

:07:08.:07:10.

law, violating Syrian airspace by not doing what Russia has done, and

:07:11.:07:16.

request informal position to enter the skies. Secondly, most

:07:17.:07:20.

importantly, he insisted that the air campaign was, as he put it, a

:07:21.:07:24.

show of bravado for the benefit of the British public and Parliament,

:07:25.:07:28.

that it would not have any impact, because it was not coordinated with

:07:29.:07:33.

the Syrian army, and that, he said, was the path to success, and Britain

:07:34.:07:38.

was doomed to fail in the air campaign, against the presence of

:07:39.:07:47.

Islamic State. The talks, Vienna talks, that are the great hope for

:07:48.:07:52.

getting there, give us your view, the realism, of delivering very

:07:53.:08:01.

much, very quickly? There are two phrases that government officials

:08:02.:08:05.

used often in the debate in the British Parliament, and after it

:08:06.:08:12.

ended, the first was the Vienna process, the second was winning the

:08:13.:08:15.

peace. There was a significant breakthrough in in recent months,

:08:16.:08:22.

only significant because of the very low bar in Syria, where there has

:08:23.:08:25.

been deadlocked for five years, and that is that all of the main outside

:08:26.:08:28.

players involved in one way or another on one side or another in

:08:29.:08:32.

this war, all sat together around one table in Vienna. If the 1 table

:08:33.:08:38.

was the only point of unity, that recess, they have come up with what

:08:39.:08:41.

they call a transition plan, which would take place over two years, but

:08:42.:08:45.

there is still vast gaps, most importantly of all, the question of

:08:46.:08:51.

president Bashar al-Assad, arid states are now saying, this is a

:08:52.:08:55.

concession, the process of transition, going to a totally new

:08:56.:08:59.

order of power here, both in security terms and terms of

:09:00.:09:01.

political institutions, can start with Bashar al-Assad, to avoid total

:09:02.:09:07.

collapse, as we have seen in neighbouring states, but it must end

:09:08.:09:10.

without him, Iran and Russia ironclad doubly opposed. -- and

:09:11.:09:19.

Russia are implacable in their opposition. Golf states have blamed

:09:20.:09:24.

each other for the continuing the stable as Asia not just in Syria but

:09:25.:09:28.

across the region. The other one is winning the peace, bear in mind that

:09:29.:09:33.

Syrian talks in Vienna did not have any Syrians around the table, that

:09:34.:09:36.

is supposed to be the next step, the Syrians themselves will sit

:09:37.:09:40.

together. There is no sense at all that there is any thing, on their

:09:41.:09:44.

agenda, they are literally opposed, still speaking with contempt. There

:09:45.:09:50.

is no sense that the optimistic statements we have heard today, from

:09:51.:09:54.

senior government officials in Britain, political transition, would

:09:55.:09:58.

be under way in any time soon. -- Gulf states. It is going to be a

:09:59.:10:03.

long haul and a very messy long haul.

:10:04.:10:06.

Now, in the complex web of different groups fighting IS

:10:07.:10:09.

in Syria, there is one that has been seen as a more reliable ally

:10:10.:10:12.

Their fighters, the Peshmerga in Iraq and the YPG in Syria,

:10:13.:10:24.

have not been counted in the 70,000 troops

:10:25.:10:26.

The snag is that this army is not, at the moment,

:10:27.:10:30.

A little earlier, I spoke to the Kurdish foreign minister,

:10:31.:10:40.

Falah Mustafa Bakir, who's based in Erbil,

:10:41.:10:42.

I asked him how effective air strikes have been where the British

:10:43.:10:48.

have already been involved. The air strikes have been effective,

:10:49.:10:54.

helpful and useful, and have paved the way for the reliable forces on

:10:55.:10:57.

the ground, which are the Peshmerga forces, to achieve a lot of victory,

:10:58.:11:00.

the last of which has been retaking In addition to over 25,000 square

:11:01.:11:03.

kilometres that have been liberated since last

:11:04.:11:10.

year. where Kurdish Peshmerga forces went

:11:11.:11:14.

there together with the Kurdish with the help of the US air strikes,

:11:15.:11:18.

and helped to bring about There's more that you would like

:11:19.:11:24.

the West to do, though, as well? You could do with more weapons,

:11:25.:11:30.

for example, correct? We have been asking

:11:31.:11:32.

for more weapons, ammunition, equipment,

:11:33.:11:39.

training and capacity-building, because this has been a tough war

:11:40.:11:42.

and a costly war. Since last year,

:11:43.:11:45.

sustaining this war has been costly in terms of human lives,

:11:46.:11:47.

but also in terms of resources. That's why we have been asking

:11:48.:11:50.

for heavy weaponry, ammunition and equipment

:11:51.:11:52.

for the Peshmerga forces and lethal and non-lethal equipment to be

:11:53.:11:54.

provided for the Peshmerga forces. One of the things we've been told

:11:55.:11:56.

in our debate here, and everybody seems to agree

:11:57.:11:59.

on this, is that for air strikes to work, there has to be a ground force

:12:00.:12:02.

that can finish the job. Now, there's a dilemma here,

:12:03.:12:05.

because actually, the Kurds, the YPG, the Syrian Kurds,

:12:06.:12:11.

not far from Raqqa. The head of the snake,

:12:12.:12:20.

if you like, of Isis. many people say it's the best army

:12:21.:12:26.

nearby. And yet many people in Raqqa, the

:12:27.:12:30.

Sunni Muslims, will not welcome the If, for example, the Syrian

:12:31.:12:33.

opposition forces said, we would welcome some kind of

:12:34.:12:49.

military help from the Kurds, you put up, if you like, forces to

:12:50.:12:55.

go outside your areas, and to help take that

:12:56.:13:01.

town out of Isis's hands? We have played a major role

:13:02.:13:05.

in defeating Isis, and we have For non-Kurdish areas,

:13:06.:13:08.

we have been talking to the US-led coalition as well as Iraqis

:13:09.:13:11.

in order to prepare the ground. The same way that Raqqa is important

:13:12.:13:14.

for Syria, Mosul is important for Iraq, so we talk about

:13:15.:13:17.

the Iraqi battlefront, we are ready to play our role having stated very

:13:18.:13:20.

clearly who does what and where the in going further towards

:13:21.:13:23.

these non-Kurdish areas. It's doable, but there needs to be

:13:24.:13:25.

an understanding, and a political understanding

:13:26.:13:28.

and an agreement between the forces We have got some Peshmerga,

:13:29.:13:30.

the Kurdish Peshmerga, They will be ready to play a role

:13:31.:13:35.

in the fight in Syria as well, and there would be cooperation with

:13:36.:13:40.

the Syrian democratic forces There has to be an effort

:13:41.:13:42.

on the ground in order to bring all

:13:43.:13:48.

these forces who are against Isis Minister Bakir, thank you

:13:49.:13:51.

very much for talking to us. Yesterday's drama continues to have

:13:52.:13:55.

reverberations within the Labour Party, where the new kinder, gentler

:13:56.:14:04.

politics is having a rough week. While some suggest that party

:14:05.:14:09.

politics is a distraction from the real issue of military

:14:10.:14:13.

action, Labour MPs themselves keep talking about bullying

:14:14.:14:16.

and the threat of de-selection. The Corbynite Shadow Chancellor,

:14:17.:14:20.

John McDonnell, suggested on the Radio 4 Today programme this morning

:14:21.:14:23.

that there was unpleasantness from some on both sides of the argument,

:14:24.:14:28.

but most attention is on the tactics of those who've been against war

:14:29.:14:33.

directed at those in favour. John Sweeney went to visit

:14:34.:14:38.

Walthamstow, the constituency of Stella Creasy - one of the MPs

:14:39.:14:40.

who says she's been targeted. Where does Democratic arguments stop

:14:41.:14:55.

and intimidation begin? Labour MPs who voted for bombing so-called

:14:56.:14:58.

Islamic State in Syria are asking that question. If Hilary Benn

:14:59.:15:06.

wonders what the strange whirring noise is, it's his father turning in

:15:07.:15:07.

his grave. Well done, murderer. So why is Sweeney standing in the

:15:08.:15:29.

middle of a roadworks in Walthamstow, you may well ask? As

:15:30.:15:32.

well as the vote on bombing Syria this week, something else happened,

:15:33.:15:36.

it happened here, and it is a potential sign of trouble ahead not

:15:37.:15:40.

just for the Labour Party but the British politics as a whole.

:15:41.:15:47.

Walthamstow MP Stella Creasy is right in the line of fire. Her north

:15:48.:15:51.

London constituency has a lot of ethnic minority voters and far left

:15:52.:15:56.

activist. They came to her Labour Party office on Tuesday night. They

:15:57.:16:03.

said, to stage a vigil. From what I saw, it was very much a peaceful and

:16:04.:16:08.

respectful protest. It was a free vote, so she has a right to follow

:16:09.:16:13.

her conscience? She has a right to do that, absolutely, but we live in

:16:14.:16:19.

her constituency, and her constituents are disappointed to see

:16:20.:16:22.

Gucci isn't representing our views in Parliament. If there was a vote

:16:23.:16:26.

to deselect her, would you deselect? I believe she doesn't

:16:27.:16:30.

represent views of her constituents and the local Labour Party. After

:16:31.:16:35.

Stella Creasy voted for bombing, local councillor Azema mood

:16:36.:16:41.

suggested that any MP who supported the killing of innocents should face

:16:42.:16:50.

reselection. I have spoken to the counsellor and he said he couldn't

:16:51.:16:53.

talk to us as he was at Heathrow, Eddie Gunter recommend anyone else.

:16:54.:16:58.

He said the people who are against the vote to bomb IS in Syria are

:16:59.:17:07.

lying low right now. -- he couldn't recommend anywhere cars. As the RAF

:17:08.:17:12.

began striking Syria today, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and MPT Tom

:17:13.:17:19.

Watson is issued a statement together. One senior figure is

:17:20.:17:27.

calling for a new code of conduct. I am worried that social media may be

:17:28.:17:32.

poisoning politics as people who are spelling abuse and bile, bullying,

:17:33.:17:37.

it is just not conducive to the way we should do politics in this

:17:38.:17:40.

country. Because people are sitting behind a keyboard, they think it is

:17:41.:17:47.

OK to add extra vitriol to the political point they want to make.

:17:48.:17:50.

In the end it will just deter people from becoming part of politics.

:17:51.:17:55.

There needs to be a code of conduct, clear roles

:17:56.:17:57.

There needs to be a code of conduct, bullying and abuse will just not be

:17:58.:18:02.

tolerated. The Labour MP for Bermondsey received a tweet showing

:18:03.:18:11.

three knives. They thought they could compel me to act in a

:18:12.:18:16.

particular way, and that was very unfortunate, and it did lead to some

:18:17.:18:20.

level of intimidation. That undermines democracy. Stop the

:18:21.:18:24.

Warsaw and poor power sees things differently. -- stop the war

:18:25.:18:43.

spokesman Paul power. It is not tweet that kill people, it is bombs.

:18:44.:18:47.

It is not e-mails that kill people, it is missiles, and that is the real

:18:48.:18:55.

issue here. There isn't a stop the war office in Raqqa. Obama himself

:18:56.:19:05.

said Russian bombs will free terrorism. I don't think British

:19:06.:19:14.

bombs are any different. What is at stake here is freedom of conscience

:19:15.:19:17.

in British political life. Ashworth.

:19:18.:19:20.

Shadow Cabinet minister Jonathan First, though, let's talk to one MP,

:19:21.:19:32.

Diana Johnson, She was sent an e-mail which claimed

:19:33.:19:34.

she would lose her seat if she voted You did vote against air strikes.

:19:35.:19:42.

Where you bullied? How do you know that you were not influenced by

:19:43.:19:47.

those kinds of threats? I was in the middle of a consultation with my

:19:48.:19:50.

constituents, and I received that e-mail saying that if I didn't vote

:19:51.:19:54.

the right way, as they saw it, they would have a vote of no-confidence

:19:55.:20:00.

and to deselect me. I wanted to call that out immediately, because I

:20:01.:20:03.

didn't want that kind of leading e-mail but I received, and other

:20:04.:20:07.

e-mails that went to other MPs, to be kept quiet. I wanted to get it

:20:08.:20:12.

out there to say this is not a tactic that will influence me. I am

:20:13.:20:17.

going to look at the evidence and what the Government are saying and

:20:18.:20:22.

come to a judgment. It seems to me in tenures as an MP, I have never

:20:23.:20:26.

had an e-mail like that before, and I have never seen the level of

:20:27.:20:31.

vitriol and abuse that is an social media, but also as you were just

:20:32.:20:36.

describing with Stella, that level, that attempt to bully MPs, this is

:20:37.:20:42.

something that has happened recently. Have you had insults or

:20:43.:20:47.

threats from the other side, from the pro-war lobby saying that now

:20:48.:20:53.

you have voted against, you will be deselected? No. When I consulted my

:20:54.:20:58.

constituents, I had a balanced response, people with views on

:20:59.:21:02.

either side. But in a sensible, reasonable way. And one other

:21:03.:21:06.

thing, I think there is a particular issue about the way women MPs are

:21:07.:21:11.

being targeted. Some of the offensive language use, words I

:21:12.:21:14.

cannot repeat on the television, but also words like hang and which --

:21:15.:21:29.

hag and witch, and this has been building for some time, and Jeremy

:21:30.:21:32.

Corbyn himself has said it is not acceptable. We need more than words,

:21:33.:21:38.

we need action now. Andy Burnham's talk about a code of conduct is one

:21:39.:21:42.

thing, but we need a leader to be very clear to stand by the

:21:43.:21:45.

Parliamentary Labour Party to say he gave us a free vote, and whichever

:21:46.:21:50.

way you voted, it was done in principle. People step by their

:21:51.:21:54.

principles, and the leader needs to reiterate that he is proud of the

:21:55.:21:59.

PLP. Diana Johnson, thank you very much indeed. Jon Ashworth, what is

:22:00.:22:07.

the party going to do about this? This evening, Jeremy has put out an

:22:08.:22:11.

important statement saying he will have no truck with this kind of

:22:12.:22:14.

intimidation and bullying that Diana is quite rightly calling out. Also

:22:15.:22:25.

Tom Watson our deputy leader is looking at producing a code of

:22:26.:22:28.

conduct, and I think that is an important step, so let's take it to

:22:29.:22:33.

the NEC and discuss what that means. When you look at the three pillars

:22:34.:22:36.

that Jeremy Kyle bin got elected upon, his mandate, one of the most

:22:37.:22:40.

important ones was that he wanted a kinder style of latex, a more

:22:41.:22:44.

engaging style of politics and a democratic kind. But you must be

:22:45.:22:53.

even having to mention it, because frankly are those who will say that

:22:54.:22:57.

while he talks of gentle politics, he has attracted in a lot of people

:22:58.:23:01.

who didn't get the memo about kinder and gentler. I think a lot of the

:23:02.:23:08.

people on Twitter are not in the party, but if they are, I think that

:23:09.:23:14.

type of leading, nasty, abusive social media behaviour, this Twitter

:23:15.:23:20.

pitchfork mob is unacceptable. We should be debating issues in the

:23:21.:23:24.

party. I want a more democratic party, I don't want people feeling

:23:25.:23:26.

bullied and pressured into adopting a position because of the abuse they

:23:27.:23:32.

have been getting an social media. Let's talk about deselection. What

:23:33.:23:36.

Diana Johnson had was a threat of deselection. We have used the word

:23:37.:23:41.

allaying and just seamlessly gone from deselection to Twitter insults.

:23:42.:23:48.

Is it illegitimate for a local party to say if you vote against the way

:23:49.:23:53.

we would like to vote, we will deselect you? We have A.D. Selection

:23:54.:23:59.

process already. So why is it unreasonable?

:24:00.:24:05.

When your constituency party selected to be the candidate, they

:24:06.:24:11.

are asking you to form judgments on complex, big issues. They want

:24:12.:24:17.

someone whose judgment they like. Indeed. All Labour MPs take these

:24:18.:24:22.

issues very seriously, such as whether to extend air strikes to

:24:23.:24:29.

Isil in Syria. They listen to their electorate and they way up the ante

:24:30.:24:32.

must carefully. I think this kind of idea that you don't do a certain

:24:33.:24:38.

thing, we will push you off a cliff approach to politics is not the way

:24:39.:24:42.

of doing things. That is not an in gauging way of doing things. What

:24:43.:24:47.

all of this just tells us, this party is just absolutely

:24:48.:24:51.

dysfunctional at the moment. It is completely split, and not just over

:24:52.:24:57.

a disagreement, it is a visceral disagreement in which one lot

:24:58.:25:01.

actually hate the other lot. I don't know if people hate each other in

:25:02.:25:06.

the Parliamentary Labour Party. We have had a debate this week on

:25:07.:25:12.

whether to extend air strikes in Syria, and clearly there was a

:25:13.:25:17.

division, but the economic policy of John McDonnell, there is consensus,

:25:18.:25:20.

and on the welfare policy, there is consensus. On the health policy of

:25:21.:25:26.

Heidi Alexander, there is consensus. There have been split some foreign

:25:27.:25:29.

policy this week, but when you look at domestic policy, the Shadow

:25:30.:25:33.

Cabinet and shadow ministers are broadly united. Stay there a moment.

:25:34.:25:35.

Voting ended about an hour ago in the much anticipated by-election

:25:36.:25:39.

in Oldham West and Royton, triggered after the death

:25:40.:25:41.

It is Labour's first electoral test since choosing Jeremy Corbyn

:25:42.:25:46.

The party is defending a majority of over 14,000 - so surely it's

:25:47.:25:51.

Joining us from the count is BBC North West's political editor,

:25:52.:25:57.

We are going to wake up tomorrow morning to the result of this

:25:58.:26:10.

by-election. Tell us what we might expect in terms of what would be a

:26:11.:26:17.

good result or bad? What I can do is tell you what Labour is predicting,

:26:18.:26:22.

and that is that they will win tonight, because they have described

:26:23.:26:26.

themselves as confident of that. You can see behind me that the county

:26:27.:26:31.

still going on. It will go on probably until about half past one

:26:32.:26:33.

in the morning when we expect results. Ukip say that they also

:26:34.:26:39.

believe they have done very well, but not enough, they think, to cross

:26:40.:26:45.

the line. We waited to see. As you say, the majority here is almost

:26:46.:26:49.

15,000, so the question is the extent to which Ukip is able to

:26:50.:26:54.

narrow that gap, close the majority. As I see it, there are two

:26:55.:26:59.

challenges here. The ones Ukip is to prove not that they can do well in

:27:00.:27:03.

seats like this, they have proven that, but that they can actually win

:27:04.:27:06.

them. And the challenge Labour is that with Jeremy Corbyn as leader,

:27:07.:27:13.

can he appealed to seats like this? Old Western writing is primarily a

:27:14.:27:18.

working-class constituency. -- Oldham West and

:27:19.:27:24.

working-class constituency. -- working class constituency, and if

:27:25.:27:25.

he can't succeed here, we working class constituency, and if

:27:26.:27:31.

Thank you very much. It is extraordinary that the main

:27:32.:27:33.

Thank you very much. It is that the main political affected to

:27:34.:27:35.

resuscitate elliptical trouble of their own.

:27:36.:27:39.

They did well at the general election, they didn't take seats but

:27:40.:27:43.

they did take votes. We need to think about how we take that on. Our

:27:44.:27:48.

candidate is brilliant, think about how we take that on. Our

:27:49.:27:52.

be a superb MP if he gets elected. If Ukip take votes of Labour,

:27:53.:27:55.

be a superb MP if he gets elected. they seem likely to take some of,

:27:56.:27:58.

what do you mean when you say you have to look into that? C what the

:27:59.:28:03.

result is, first of all. In a town like Oldham, it is a Labour town so

:28:04.:28:09.

I don't want to see Ukip doing well. If the reports come in that they are

:28:10.:28:12.

doing better-than-expected, we will have to decide how to bond to them.

:28:13.:28:15.

John Ashworth, thank you very much. One of the BBC's best-known

:28:16.:28:18.

and long-serving executives, Alan Yentob, is to step down

:28:19.:28:20.

from his post as Creative Director. He's been in the news as he was

:28:21.:28:24.

chairman of the collapsed charity Kids Company and he'd been accused

:28:25.:28:27.

of trying to influence BBC coverage of its affairs -

:28:28.:28:30.

a potential conflict of interest. Our policy editor Chris Cook has

:28:31.:28:32.

been reporting on the problems of Kids Company

:28:33.:28:35.

and its senior team this year. And then, just like that,

:28:36.:28:40.

the man himself emerges. Alan Yentob is best known

:28:41.:28:44.

for his televised documentaries. He has chats with grand arts

:28:45.:29:00.

figures. My first meeting with Jay Z, short but sweet. Isn't that Diana

:29:01.:29:07.

Ross? But today, he resigned as creative director of the BBC because

:29:08.:29:13.

the youth work charity he chaired collapsed in August,

:29:14.:29:15.

the youth work charity he chaired receiving a ?3 million public

:29:16.:29:20.

bailout. During nearly 50 years at the BBC, he made classic films like

:29:21.:29:25.

this one on David Bowie, and served as a controller of BBC

:29:26.:29:26.

this one on David Bowie, and served and head of television. So it is

:29:27.:29:32.

perhaps a little surprising that it is the collapse of a charity he

:29:33.:29:34.

supported in his spare time that is the collapse of a charity he

:29:35.:29:37.

caused the end of his career as an executive here at the BBC. But the

:29:38.:29:42.

collapse of Kids Company was a national scandal. The charity

:29:43.:29:49.

received more than ?40 million of government funding, including ?7

:29:50.:29:52.

million this year, and an official report looking into the case has

:29:53.:29:56.

found that taxpayers have no idea what value they actually got for all

:29:57.:29:57.

that cash. He was not a token trustee, he was

:29:58.:30:05.

intimately involved in getting public funds, this summer he wrote

:30:06.:30:09.

to ministers with a letter which included some ordinary claims, the

:30:10.:30:13.

sample, he said that if Kids Company closed, there would be a high risk

:30:14.:30:16.

of arson attacks on government buildings. And communities served by

:30:17.:30:21.

the charity could descend into savagery. It was his efforts to

:30:22.:30:27.

defend the charity in the BBC which have ultimately been his undoing. He

:30:28.:30:32.

spoke with Newsnight to try to affect our output, unsuccessfully,

:30:33.:30:35.

and the world at one, and there is something about this interview with

:30:36.:30:41.

the Chief Executive, on Radio 4's today. It is not true, and I will

:30:42.:30:47.

tell why, we have had audits in the last 19 years, and all of them have

:30:48.:30:52.

been clear. Here is something you cannot see in that footage, that

:30:53.:30:57.

interview took place in that room there, the studio where the today

:30:58.:31:00.

programme is being broadcast, and this is the cubicle, where the

:31:01.:31:03.

producers and editors in control of the programmes it, they control the

:31:04.:31:09.

length of interviews, for example. Alyn Yentob came in and stood in

:31:10.:31:13.

this cubicle, he did not say anything, he waited until he went

:31:14.:31:16.

outside again to do that. -- Alan Yentob. MPs think that this was an

:31:17.:31:22.

abuse of his position at the BBC and when he was asked about that, he did

:31:23.:31:27.

not -- they did not feel his answers were straightforward. You position

:31:28.:31:31.

yourself with the producer in the box... I'm sorry, I do not know why

:31:32.:31:37.

you heard that, she was being interviewed, I was outside, I was

:31:38.:31:41.

not with the producer in the box. Allegation is that you are not in

:31:42.:31:44.

the studio with her but you were the other side of the glass with the

:31:45.:31:50.

producers. Yes, I was. So you inhibited the producer! You have

:31:51.:31:54.

been giving a very misleading answer... Alan Yentob will stay on

:31:55.:32:01.

as a presenter of the art show, Imagine, and as the chair of BBC

:32:02.:32:06.

films, he is stepping down as an executive, and the BBC trust, the

:32:07.:32:09.

governing body, feel enough is enough, they do not need to look

:32:10.:32:12.

into his behaviour any further, they have asked for a senior member of

:32:13.:32:20.

staff to look into outside interests among BBC staff. He says he resigned

:32:21.:32:23.

for the sake of the BBC, and so this is quite a moment, he has been

:32:24.:32:33.

integral enough to merit a joke in W1A... See what happens in here...

:32:34.:32:39.

No, that is something else. Even resigning from a ?180,000 a year

:32:40.:32:44.

executive job will not end the saga, for one thing, that select committee

:32:45.:32:48.

report is going to come out early next year, and it is expected to be

:32:49.:32:50.

savage. STUDIO: Here me is Steve Hewlett,

:32:51.:32:57.

media journalist and presenter Why has this happened now? Nobody

:32:58.:33:06.

understood, there has been mounting incredulity, I had a cabinet

:33:07.:33:09.

minister say to me, why is that man still there, why has he got a job? !

:33:10.:33:16.

Once he intervened with the today programme and Newsnight, the

:33:17.:33:18.

conflict-of-interest, which you might think was latent, became

:33:19.:33:22.

apparent. There has been mounting incredulity. The reason for today,

:33:23.:33:27.

we discover this afternoon, the BBC trust has an editorial standards

:33:28.:33:31.

committee, there has been a formal complaint about Alan Yentob, from

:33:32.:33:35.

somebody, we do not know who, this person has appealed to the trust to

:33:36.:33:40.

look at this, and the first part of the process is to say, is this an

:33:41.:33:46.

appeal that we will hear? They have decided not to, because they think

:33:47.:33:50.

it is not worth it. One of the key reasons they say they are not going

:33:51.:33:53.

to hear the appeal, there are a number, they say the editorial

:33:54.:33:58.

integrity of the BBC was not impacted, they see no basic

:33:59.:34:02.

contradiction between being the chair of Kids Company and involved

:34:03.:34:06.

with the BBC in that way. The key thing is, since he has never stood

:34:07.:34:14.

down, it is not worth the trouble. You do not have to be some kind of

:34:15.:34:19.

criminal on the to think that he has stood because otherwise there was

:34:20.:34:24.

concern is about the trust enquiring and coming to a conclusion that

:34:25.:34:31.

would be unfavourable for him. -- Kremlinologist.

:34:32.:34:34.

With us all so preoccupied by Syria in recent weeks,

:34:35.:34:37.

there has barely been a moment for the media to enjoy the annual

:34:38.:34:40.

ritual of gleeful mocking of the Turner Prize nominees, and asking

:34:41.:34:42.

There's little time left now, as this year's prize will be awarded

:34:43.:34:47.

Among the nominees for the first time is one that is

:34:48.:34:50.

It's a group of young architects and designers called Assemble,

:34:51.:34:55.

whose work includes a cinema in a petrol station, a theatre under a

:34:56.:34:58.

flyover, a collection of barbecued doorknobs and a renovated street

:34:59.:35:00.

Steve Smith headed to Toxteth to make a barbecue and find out more.

:35:01.:35:08.

"Neither use nor ornament", according to some.

:35:09.:35:25.

# Yet you're my favourite work of art... #

:35:26.:35:32.

Whatever else the critics might say about this year's entry

:35:33.:35:36.

from a young architects' collective called Assemble, it ain't useless.

:35:37.:35:42.

This is like an edition of Bake Off I missed.

:35:43.:36:01.

What are you doing? It's not edible.

:36:02.:36:04.

With a timely austerity of aesthetic,

:36:05.:36:09.

Assemble and volunteer helpers are making household fittings out

:36:10.:36:11.

I'll put another doorknob in here, and we will put leaves in here,

:36:12.:36:16.

because when the actual burning process takes place,

:36:17.:36:18.

you get these wonderful patinas of the veins of the leaf on the ceramic

:36:19.:36:21.

Did you ever think you'd be doing this? No!

:36:22.:36:41.

We tried banana skins, we tried feathers.

:36:42.:36:44.

We've tried salt, coffee, tea leaves...

:36:45.:36:45.

Here's one Assemble made earlier. Different.

:36:46.:36:46.

Assemble's bespoke fixtures and appurtenances have ended up here

:36:47.:36:49.

in a Glasgow gallery awaiting the judges' verdict in the Turner Prize.

:36:50.:36:52.

Their products are also available to buy online, with the proceeds

:36:53.:36:55.

supporting Assemble's work back in Liverpool, where they have so far

:36:56.:36:57.

And you can see their handiwork all around here.

:36:58.:37:15.

including the doorknobs on the cupboards.

:37:16.:37:29.

Not to mention the new fireplace, the pride and joy,

:37:30.:37:31.

made out of crushed bricks and aggregate rescued from a skip.

:37:32.:37:35.

When I opened the front door and saw this contemporary,

:37:36.:37:39.

I was just very happy. Very happy with what they've done.

:37:40.:37:44.

And it's been done with a lot of thought.

:37:45.:37:46.

It's aesthetically, to me, attractive.

:37:47.:38:08.

also suffered from ill-conceived housing policies, say people here.

:38:09.:38:11.

Families were uprooted and their homes demolished.

:38:12.:38:16.

because I feel as though I've returned.

:38:17.:38:22.

Val Young lives in another part of the city now,

:38:23.:38:25.

my parents were the only mixed-race couple.

:38:26.:38:35.

When you moved out? When we moved into New Park.

:38:36.:38:39.

My mum always wanted to come back into Liverpool,

:38:40.:38:41.

and she died and she never got back to Toxteth.

:38:42.:38:44.

But I think there was always a sense of loss that she couldn't come back

:38:45.:38:47.

to the area and the friends that she had met during her time here.

:38:48.:38:53.

for Assemble's efforts to cheer up tiles

:38:54.:39:02.

and otherwise help restore this community.

:39:03.:39:04.

Where do we see the value of creativity in our society, and is

:39:05.:39:08.

that inside a gallery or can it be really embedded in everyday life?

:39:09.:39:12.

And we definitely believe in the latter.

:39:13.:39:14.

Whether you call that art or design or craft or anything,

:39:15.:39:17.

But some art critics are unconvinced.

:39:18.:39:27.

and when you start going around saying, "This is not art",

:39:28.:39:38.

It works very well as architecture. Why bring it in as art?

:39:39.:39:45.

I think if you are looking for stuff that isn't pretentious

:39:46.:39:48.

and it is useful, why don't you nominate B or Oxfam?

:39:49.:39:50.

Apparently one of the judges is very keen to push the idea of useful art.

:39:51.:39:55.

I think it is great if art can be useful.

:39:56.:39:57.

But just because it is useful doesn't make it art.

:39:58.:40:01.

But as the Turner Prize-givers mull their difficult decision,

:40:02.:40:09.

let's leave the last word on Assemble's efforts

:40:10.:40:11.

It is recognising the politics in art,

:40:12.:40:14.

that goes into some rich person's warehouse.

:40:15.:40:23.

This is something that you live with, and it's art for the people.

:40:24.:40:26.

And if art isn't about people and humanity, then what is it about?

:40:27.:40:39.

we should say there's been a development

:40:40.:40:48.

in the Tory bullying scandal tonight.

:40:49.:40:50.

Newsnight has obtained a memo that was sent to senior Conservative

:40:51.:40:58.

Party officials in August by a then party worker,

:40:59.:41:00.

of the scandal -- was "sociopathic" "dangerous" and a "bully". It also

:41:01.:41:06.

urged officials to keep Mr Clarke away from the party's youth wing and

:41:07.:41:09.

not to do so would be "devastating". You can read all the details of this

:41:10.:41:13.

Now, the British Museum has announced a major exhibition

:41:14.:41:17.

scheduled for next year which will gather together artefacts discovered

:41:18.:41:21.

Here's a taste of what will be on display.

:41:22.:41:26.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS