Browse content similar to 07/12/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Here we go again, a deluge that leaves thousands of homes | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
Ike a current to it. It was that fast and that quick coming in, I had | :00:08. | :00:27. | |
no choice but to literally abandon it and take myself and my little one | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
upstairs. We can't protect ourselves | :00:31. | :00:32. | |
from everything the weather throws at us, but we'll ask | :00:33. | :00:34. | |
if we're even close to rising to the And Finland, the land of | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
Santa Claus, is pondering giving | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
a monthly income to everybody. Tyson Fury and the petition to take | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
him off the shortlist for Nature is a capricious beast | :00:44. | :00:52. | |
and has struck again, The rain has not just topped some | :00:53. | :01:09. | |
relatively new flood defences in that part of the country, | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
but has also topped the records: 34 cm in a 24-hour period - a | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
month's worth of rain in a day between Friday and Saturday | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
in the county. And the Met Office have said | :01:26. | :01:27. | |
a new record had been set for rainfall over a 48-hour period, | :01:28. | :01:35. | |
with 41 mm falling in 38 hours It's a county wearily familiar | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
with the consequences. The Prime Minister chaired a COBRA | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
meeting this morning, What we did after the 2009 floods is | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
spend millions of pounds building these barriers and they have | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
prevented floods in Carlisle I think on two occasions, but they weren't | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
enough on this occasion when we had But after every flood, | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
the thing to do is sit down, look at the money you're spending, | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
look at what you're building, look at what you're planning to build in | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
the future and ask, is it enough? It's pretty inevitable that people | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
will ask "are we doing enough" to prevent flooding, as they do | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
after each episode like this. It may be rational to say, | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
we're not going to bother defending against a flood that occurs only | :02:19. | :02:20. | |
once every 100 years. But what if we keep having | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
floods that are only meant The problem is that if some kind | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
of climate change is occurring, it may be that the statistics relating | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
to the last 100 years are hopeless Nick Hopkins has been looking | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
at how much we spend on flood Flooded and fed up. For so many, | :02:35. | :02:54. | |
Christmas will be spent crying out. Drying out. In the Commons today a | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
pledge from the Government to everyone who needs help will get it. | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
The Government will continue to ensure that all resources are made | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
available to support recovery from this flooding. COBRA will continue | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
to meet daily to oversee recovery efforts, and I will be travelling to | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
Cumbria and Lancashire after this statement to continue to ensure we | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
are doing all we can to help those affected. But as floodwaters recede, | :03:20. | :03:27. | |
recriminations begin. Labour today accused the Government of breaking | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
spending promises. The figures show spending on flood defences hit ?670 | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
million in 2010. Before it was slashed under the coalition | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
Government. The winter floods of late 2013 and early 2014 prompted an | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
emergency injection of Government cash. But spending this year will | :03:49. | :03:56. | |
indeed dip. There is money to throw at the problem. Devastation two | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
years ago prompted Ministers to pledge ?2.3 billion of new spending | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
over the next six years. But experts warn cuts elsewhere could leave us | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
vulnerable. I think the question there is, how have the various | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
Spending Reviews affected all the other organisations that maintain | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
our flood defences of different sorts, all different assets, be they | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
highways, water companies and so on. Keswick in Cumbria. This is worse | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
than the flooding seen here in 2009. That was meant to be a once in a | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
century event. It wasn't. And that's no accident, say some. We need to | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
have a long-term strategy. We definitely need to use the science | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
that we are developing now, which indicate there is going to be a | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
continuous change in extreme rainfall in flooding and we need to | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
put that into policy to make sure our populations are resilient. So | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
that policy doesn't exist at the moment? In some parts it does, but | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
it could be improved. The threat of flooding is one thing. Ensuring | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
against it another. Premiums of ?25,000 a year are not unheard of. | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
Insurers will club together next year to spread the risk, a scheme | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
which should bring the bills down. I It will give people more access to | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
insurance, but it is a partial fix. Which sits alongside our choice of | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
where to build and our choice of how we build. Could extreme weather | :05:35. | :05:42. | |
require extreme answers? As some areas, are some areas now too great | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
a flood risk? I think it is realistic to that some places will | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
be unsustainable in the future. Now people might choose hot to live in | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
an area of flood risk. People who stay might have to consider flood | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
proofing their house, raising it up or changing the sockets. You can do | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
a lot of things, or learn to live with the flooding, which is another | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
option. Many people do live with flooding quite happily. It is about | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
a choice but we have to be able to support people in that choice. It is | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
not that easy when you are actually flooded and your home has been | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
destroyed to rationally think about whether you can stay in that area. | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
These floods weren't the first. And they won't be the last. And they may | :06:33. | :06:42. | |
get much worse. John Sweeney is in Carlisle in Cumbria and he joins us | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
now. Give us some of the impressions you've been picking up today as | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
you've been there. I've seen worse tragedies in my time, but it is grim | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
up here. I've been speaking to a chap who was helping his name, who | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
is 93, and it is her birthday today. Frankly she said to her neighbour, | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
listen, I don't want to go home ever again. I've had enough of floods. | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
She is worried the police might have knocked down her front door and that | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
looters may have come in. I don't think it is a massive reality, but | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
the it is a fear. How did this happen? In 2005 there was a big | :07:24. | :07:30. | |
flood here. Flood defences were built and they were 23 feet height. | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
The water came in over the weekend at 25 feet. The result is thousands | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
of people have had their homes flooded, and many hundreds are | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
industrial without power, including this area where we are now. It is a | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
grim story and this is the film we've made about it, which we'll | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
show now. Water, water, everywhere and not a drop to drink. The floods | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
are not just a catastrophe, but the people here in Cumbria and the | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
north-west of England they are bad news for the Government and the | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
taxpayer too. Ten years ago a great flood happened here in Carlisle. It | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
was described as a once in a 100 years event. The bad news, it has | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
happened again. Not once in a century but twice in a decade. The | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
great flood of 1853 set the record for flooding here in Carlisle. That | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
level was toppeded in 2005 by half a metre. This weekend the water | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
summered a further half a metre, higher again. After the 2005 floods, | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
the Government spent ?38 million on new flood defences here. Some locals | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
could be forgiven for wondering whether that money was poured down | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
the drain. You could hear cracking. We thought the French patio doors | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
had cracked, but it was the wooden flooring, it has risen up. Have you | :09:05. | :09:12. | |
got kids? We've got a 1-year-old and a 17-year-old. They are my aunty's. | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
And how were they? Milly is special needs. She was really scared. She | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
ended up going out on a boat with the Life Guards yesterday afternoon. | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
You can blame this flood on global warming, or say that it has got | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
nothing whatsoever to do with it. There's a big argument about that | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
happening in Paris right now. But people in Cumbria say the flood | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
defences have let them down. Tonight the tally stands at 4,000 homes | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
flooded. Many are still without electricity. For now, from here, | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
Britain's flood defences don't look that great. | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
Here with me now to discuss some of these issues is the Conservative MP, | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
Neil Parish, who is chair of the Select Committee for Environment, | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
Food and Rural Affairs and also has a farm in Somerset, which was struck | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
Good evening to you. Just on the funding, and I don't want to get | :10:10. | :10:21. | |
into pernickety argument about whether it is 1 periods up or 1% | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
down, but is the settlement higher than previous Parliaments? It is | :10:27. | :10:28. | |
about the same as previous Parliaments. I think the big | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
argument now is, do we need to spend more? My heart goes out to the | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
people of Cumbria. We were flooded in 1981 with sea floods with where I | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
farm and that was really bad. Lost a lot of sheep and the house was | :10:45. | :10:53. | |
flooded. Are we spending enough of our resource to defend ourselves | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
from the sea and from Inland Regional Centre flooding? That's my | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
question to you. Are we spending enough? More or less. We are saying | :11:01. | :11:09. | |
we are doing well because we are keeping spending higher than it was | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
in the 1990s, but is it remotely enough? Figures show that for every | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
?1 we spend on flood protection, it is worth ?4 to ?9 for the local | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
economy. Therefore I would argue we need to spend more. We need to | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
defend our holes against floods, and we need to defend our coast against | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
floods. I think whether it is global warming, whether it is patterns, | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
what wherever it is, what we can't do is allow our homes to be flooded, | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
nor should we allow our country to be flooded. It is not just with | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
these floods now. I've been on about this for many years. In Somerset we | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
suffer floods a lot of the time by its very nature. You've got to | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
accept that some areas will flood. This flood that happened now, | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
probably if you get a month's rain in a day, you are going to have | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
problems. But we still have to face up to this. These are one in 100 | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
events, but these are happening every five years. If you are on a | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
trajectory that's going up, it is obviously going to happen more than | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
once every 100 years. Run that figure by me again. For every ?1 you | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
invest there are ?4 of benefit? Yes. Are there schemes that we are not | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
doing, not taking up, where that kind of benefit to cost ratio | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
exists? Yes, we need more money. So hang on. Before you move on, how do | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
we justify to ourselves that there are schemes where we honey believe | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
for ?1 we spent we get ?4 of benefit and we say, can't be bothered to do | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
it? We'll have the Permanent Secretary of Defra in front of us in | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
January, along with the Secretary of State. That's precisely the | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
questions we'll be asking. And he will say incidentally. She will say. | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
Sorry. She'll say that they don't have the money. The Chancellor will | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
say for infrastructure, there's never been a better time to do it | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
because interest rates are low. So therefore we have to look at flood | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
and sea defence, because in the end we have to defend our country. You | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
only have to spend the Netherlands, who spend a fortune on it, or they | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
wouldn't have a country, we don't spend enough. We'll probably have to | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
persuade the Chancellor, whether a Conservative or Labour Chancellor, | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
but we've got to face up to the fact we need to spend more money. Some of | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
the benefits come not just next year but in 50 years' time or possibly | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
100ees' time. Do you think Government in this country is well | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
tuned to thinking about the 50 to 100 years' time? We'll need to, | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
because the insurance companies will need to reinsure these properties, | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
so they've got to have some confidence. We have to make sure | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
people can afford their premiums and don't have huge excesses. We are | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
going to have to be much longer thinking on this issue. You have | :14:17. | :14:25. | |
been very honest, one of the government's ideas is through the | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
private sector, maybe localities, to put more money in themselves to | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
their own flood defence. It frankly hasn't been working, has it? There | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
has been some money coming in but not as much as we would like to see. | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
If it is not going to come from the private sector, they will need to be | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
more public sector support, but I think it is right to get the private | :14:51. | :14:52. | |
sector to contribute, but we don't want that stopping schemes, we have | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
to let them go forward. This evening Donald Trump has | :14:56. | :15:07. | |
generated a great deal of interest. The first is that the latest polls | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
show his lead solder fine -- solidifying in I/O outcome of the | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
first state in next year but Mac primary season, at a rather | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
unassailable looking 33%. The second is yet another round of very | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
controversial comments on Muslims in the United States. Donald Trump is | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
proposing a total ban on Muslims coming into America. He did so in | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
this press release. It dropped into our inboxes an hour ago, many people | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
thought it was a fake, a parody but it is for real. It says Donald Trump | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
United States and tell our country's representatives can figure out what | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
is going on. Now, we have spoken to his spokespeople, they have been | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
saying that this man would -- this ban would apply to tourist train to | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
come into America and also Muslim immigrants seeking entry as well. | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
Quite how they would find out the fate of people entering America is, | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
they are not sure on that detail, and not sure if it would apply to | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
American Muslims who leave the country and want to come back but it | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
has been fiercely condemned by the White House less than 24 hours after | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
President Obama made a plea for racial tolerance. Saying this is | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
contrary to American values, and it has been said by Jeb Bush to be | :16:34. | :16:45. | |
unhinged. Donald Trump has been saying so much in this campaign, | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
trashed a war hero, made sexist remarks about a journalist, imitated | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
a person with a disability. One wonders what else the guy is going | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
to do to court controversy. Will this make a difference, is this the | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
one where people will say we're not going to vote for the guy now, or | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
will it carry on adding to his own momentum? We have been asking that | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
question ever since he started insulting people and is not must | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
have gone up. What has propelled his candidacy, not just the celeb take | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
his money, his hardline stance on immigration. It was set out in that | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
very first press conference in Trump Tower when he called Mexican | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
immigrants rate this and criminals and vowed to build a wall between | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
Mexico and America. Recently he called for a registry of American | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
Muslims, yet every time he has made what many people would think of as | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
racist comments, his poll numbers have gone up. I should add there has | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
been a very strong condemnation from Muslim groups in America this | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
evening. One group has said we are now entering the realm of the | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
fascist. Whether this disqualified him from the presidency, who knows? | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
Every time he had said something outrageous in the past, as I have | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
said, his poll numbers have tended to go up. | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
We learned today that sometimes government happens more slowly | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
The final decision on a third runway at Heathrow was kicked into this | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
parliament from the last one, and then when we got the verdict of | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
the Davies commission, was kicked into December from the summer. | :18:17. | :18:18. | |
And guess what - today we learned that it has now reportedly been | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
But laugh as we might at the endless obfuscation, that is not the only | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
Hopes of wrapping it all up for Christmas have gone. | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
The President of the EU Council, Donald Tusk, | :18:33. | :18:34. | |
What did we learn today? He gave us this new goal of February, he said | :18:35. | :18:48. | |
he wants it done and dusted by then. He suggested that dithering so far | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
over Britain's renegotiation had caused instability across Europe. | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
There will be some relief for British Conservatives. They were | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
worried it would be a never-ending referendum. They would go on and on. | :19:02. | :19:09. | |
Now you could have a deal in February and conceivably have the | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
referendum done by mid-to-late June. It is really tough. It would require | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
everything to fall into place like clockwork but is still slightly | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
possible. If it is going to be February, the agreement, it requires | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
a lot of work to be done. The actual exercise Donald Tusk has done is he | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
has gone round the other a youth member state and says what do you | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
reckon about what Britain is asking for? A massive fact-finding mission, | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
and he has found, what a surprise, the problem is the tax credits | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
issue. David Cameron, they would like to say the new migrants coming | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
to Britain in the future, you would have to wait four years before you | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
could get in work benefits. We have reported that Jeremy Hayward has | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
told the Prime Minister you are not going to get that, it would be | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
illegal, you might get six months. Task is coming back essentially | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
saying what we sort of knew already, just at a more formal level, that it | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
is looking pretty tricky. David Cameron has some good news in that | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
the Tories really don't want this to dominate the next parliament, but | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
equally there is no way, no clear way through on tax credits yet. | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
It's an idea that's been around for decades, but few countries have | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
been brave enough - or perhaps stupid enough - to adopt it. | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
The idea is to scrap welfare as we know it, and instead to offer every | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
So step forward Finland, because the Prime Minister there | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
Everybody would be given 800 euros a month - ?600 or so to keep. | :20:32. | :20:43. | |
It has enormous appeal, but does it work? | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
We'll hear from a proponent in a moment, | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
Should we replace the existing system of pensions, child payments, | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
disability allowances, housing support and all the rest with what | :20:56. | :20:57. | |
A simple flat tax-free payment to all adults that | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
That notion may now be taking a step away from the seminar room | :21:04. | :21:10. | |
and towards reality, with moves in Finland to start trials of the idea. | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
The body that administers social security there has commissioned | :21:17. | :21:18. | |
a new study, and the policy has support, according to | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
But then who wouldn't like a tax free payment every month | :21:22. | :21:28. | |
The Finnish proposal is to abolish existing benefits and replace them | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
with a monthly payment of 800 euros to every adult. | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
Paying every adult that would cost about 46 billion euros a year, | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
about in line with current Finnish benefit spending. | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
Counterintuitive as it might sound, the aim is to reduce unemployment. | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
In theory, paying people a flat rate of cash regardless of whether they | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
work or not should make it easier for people to move into work. | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
They won't lose benefit as they earn more, reducing disincentives. | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
Well, there are several, and some of them are pretty big. | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
Any move towards a basic income would create lots of winners, | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
amongst people who don't get much cash from the state at the moment. | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
Basically people in decent paying work without children. | :22:15. | :22:22. | |
But it what create serious losers too. | :22:23. | :22:23. | |
Disabled people, for example, who often get larger payments from | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
the social security system to help them cope with their conditions. | :22:27. | :22:28. | |
People with children, especially those with larger families | :22:29. | :22:30. | |
on lower income tax, who would lose out on child benefit payments. | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
And people who currently get support with housing costs | :22:34. | :22:35. | |
Of course, you could try and add in circumstances-specific top-up | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
payments, but then you would be undermining the simplicity of the | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
A basic income which doesn't cut the payments to the most vulnerable | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
be more expensive than the current system and implies higher taxes. | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
And that's the issue Finland will now have to face. | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
Joining me to talk about basic incomes, Newell Lawson, chair of the | :23:04. | :23:12. | |
left of centre campaigning group, Compass. He is an advocate of doing | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
this in Britain. It is a live debate as you are concerned, you are doing | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
a seminar on it tomorrow. Very live. What do you like about this scheme? | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
Our Social Security system is broken, it was invented in 1945 and | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
the world has moved on from working in factories. A new world is | :23:36. | :23:38. | |
coming, where technology will displace lots of jobs actually, and | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
there will be huge productivity gain from that. Unless we want food | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
riots, we are going to have to find a way of paying people to spend | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
money in the supermarkets. All the evidence suggests that people don't | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
do nothing, actually what they do is they work, they become more | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
entrepreneurial, they volunteer, they care for people, they do a | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
whole load of things. Our social security system is built on | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
believing the worst in people, and what a citizen's income does is it | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
gives them the belief of the best in people. That is what it is about. | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
Let's go through the basic problem with the basic income scheme, what | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
Duncan mentioned, if it isn't very generous, basically it is not very | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
nice to people who are in hardship, who can't but by going out to work | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
for example. We are modelling this at the moment, and actually if you | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
swapped to some kind of citizen's income in the UK where every adult | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
was given ?75 and you kept housing benefit and child benefit, one or | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
two other benefits, as a kind of way into it to begin to introduce it, | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
now then, if we are right... ?75 a week? Gas, which is enough, it is | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
not perfect, not as much as the Finns are doing it, and the Finns | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
are doing it, why can't we? It begins to introduce the system and | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
it puts a floor under people. If there are going to be huge | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
productivity gains from new technology, the question is who | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
gains from that? Does it just go to the tech companies or can we | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
redistributed through a citizens income? ?75 which doesn't sound like | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
a good enough wage. I wouldn't have thought somebody from the left would | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
think that. As soon as you start topping it up with a disability | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
premium, child benefit already in there, which I believe Finland isn't | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
proposing to do, then you have made it all complicated, you have just | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
reinvented universal credit with a lower withdrawal. You are treating | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
everyone as a citizen and giving them worth, giving them some kind of | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
floor under their feet. When you start giving people 70 something | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
pounds a week, the unemployed move into employment, those who are | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
taking very poorly paid jobs, refuse poorly paid jobs and go the better | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
paid jobs. So it helps all round. You get rid of the competitive | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
benefit system, the humiliation of means testing. You have got rid of | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
means testing and the humiliation, but in order to give me ?75 a week, | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
you have got to put up everybody's tax rate in order to find all those | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
?75. So you have given everyone a lump sum all week but the basic | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
income tax rate has to go up very substantially. No it doesn't, it can | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
go up a bit. But look, every time we introduce something radically | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
different and transformative, the NHS, the minimum wage, the Social | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
Security system itself originally, everyone says it is not possible, | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
right? It is possible, it is just whether it is attractive. Finland | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
are showing it is possible and if this technology thing is happening, | :26:52. | :26:53. | |
and if jobs are going to be displaced, then we have to find a | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
way to pay people. There is no way out of this. It is why people on the | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
left are supporting it, like me, but why people across the political | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
spectrum from the RSA to the Adam Smith Institute all sorts of | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
economists, and more than anything technologists, arriving at | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
citizen's income is the policy issue of the 21st century. If Finland, who | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
are considering it now, if they look at it, back away and say this isn't | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
going to work, will it change mine? Everywhere it has happened, been | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
tried, it has moved people into being productive and has helped | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
people reach their potential and fulfil their potential. If it can do | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
that, then it is a policy we ought to be looking at. | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
The sports glitterati will gather at the SSE Arena in Belfast | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
for the BBC Sports Personality of the Year event. | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
They'll drag the show out for more than two hours, but the clue | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
as to the bit you're meant to relish is in the title - the crowning of | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
One winner out of twelve shortlisted contenders. | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
But, this year, there is a petition against one name on that shortlist: | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
boxer Tyson Fury, world heavyweight champion. | :28:01. | :28:02. | |
His remarks likening homosexuality to paedophilia, and suggesting that | :28:03. | :28:04. | |
the legalisation of homosexuality is a sign of the apocalypse have upset | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
many, as have comments about fellow shortlistee, Jessica Ennis, who, he | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
said "slaps up good" and "looks quite fit". | :28:12. | :28:19. | |
Now, do his comments make him unsuitable as a winner? | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
Or should those taking offence simply look | :28:23. | :28:24. | |
I'm joined by the boxing promoter, Kellie Maloney, and the | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
Good evening to you both. Good evening. Kellie, knowing what Tyson | :28:30. | :28:46. | |
Fury has said, when you saw him box Klitschko, who were you rooting for? | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
Obviously Tyson Fury, because he's British. It was one of the dull test | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
heavyweight fights I have ever watched, but his achievement was | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
unbelievable. He went into the lion's den against all odds. No-one | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
picked him to win, including myself. And he came away with the title, so | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
his sporting achievement is unbelievable. But? His comments | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
leave a lot to be desired. I didn't really know about the comment until | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
this morning people phoned me. At first I thought he should be taken | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
off the list. But the more I've listened to it today, even to Tyson | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
himself speaking, I think he should be left on the list and the British | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
public should make that decision. Right, so has he ever said anything | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
about transagendaered boxing promoters? No, but he said a lot of | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
things about Frank Maloney. He's been up before the board of control | :29:41. | :29:46. | |
before and has been fined for derogatory remarks against boxers | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
and their families and women before. It is not the first time Tyson has | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
let steam off. Do you think sports people owe a duty to be a role | :29:58. | :30:05. | |
model, upholding civic values and not making subtling remarks or | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
should they say what they think and be done with it Of course it would | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
be nice to think that all sports people should be role models, but | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
that's an unrealistic expectation to put on people. Sports people come | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
from all walks of life. To me it is like saying everyone in society | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
should be a role model and act in a certain way. We have different types | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
of people from different social, economic, academic backgrounds. Not | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
everyone is going to be able to uphold and put their best foot | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
forward. It is the same for sports people. Of course it would be nice | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
but unrealistic. With expectation there is's disappointment and that's | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
what happens. Let's talk about specific cases. Glenn Hoddle, an | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
English football manager, made remarks about karma and people with | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
disabilitiesment basically he lost his job as a result. Do you think | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
that was the right thing, Kellie? Not really. He should be judged on | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
what he does for sport. It seems there's some rules for certain | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
people in sports and some rules for others. If he had been winning he | :31:15. | :31:25. | |
would have... Kept his job. For me, and this is a little controversial, | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
I feel the media also have a responsibility. If you think about | :31:30. | :31:36. | |
it, the media love to give column inches and TV time to controversial | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
figures in sport. They love the give all that attention. So we entice the | :31:42. | :31:50. | |
comments? Exactly. We talk about, the media talk about people should | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
be role models, but think about it. If you gave them limelight and | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
glorified the great sports people in society that are doing the great | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
work, being great role models and stopped giving it to the | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
controversial, maybe it would inspire the controversial ones to be | :32:09. | :32:15. | |
better role models. Supposing he said something about black athletes, | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
would it change your view on this? Would you be more angry than you are | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
exhibiting at the moment? A lot of the time he's speaking about his way | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
of life. His community, how they are. Of course it is not we as a | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
whole society think, but at the same time it is what they do and they are | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
happy with it. But if they were happy with racist views, for | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
example, would you it is OK for him to be on a personality sports list? | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
It is not a winner's roster. But the public do decide, so the public make | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
that decision. If the public, I think he's, I think his remarks are | :32:55. | :32:56. | |
wrong and they are very very think he's, I think his remarks are | :32:57. | :33:05. | |
wrong and they are very a certain section of society. But he's a human | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
being, you have to understand where he is coming from. He is from a | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
closed community. Trained by his uncle. They don't have any | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
outsiders, they live in their own world. And we are talking about | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
sports personality of the year. Certain things, with what he said, | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
there's two different things we are talking about here. Sports | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
Personality of the Year, what are the the criteria? If they are about | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
your sporting prowess and what every achieved in your sporting field, | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
that's one thing, which I think it is. If some of the criteria are that | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
you have to be a role model and you can't do this and this... You | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
wouldn't have him there? Absolutely not, because it is not in the rules. | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
Maybe the BBC needs to change the rules and then he can't be in, but | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
for now let him in and allow people to vote. You think he should be in? | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
I do now, for what he has achieved in sport. Who would you vote for? | :34:08. | :34:17. | |
Jessica Ennis hill? I think Andy Murray for the Davis Cup. I think | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
Jessica Ennis, obviously. Thank you both. | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
Ten years ago, we could have done a piece on how coffee shops are | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
If we had, some of us would have said the growth of Starbucks | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
We would have made puns about there being too much froth | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
Coffee bars have continued to proliferate. | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
It's a lesson that sometimes you can extrapolate an unsustainable | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
So what is the success of coffee telling us? | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
At home the British may still be a nation of tea drinkers, but on the | :34:49. | :34:58. | |
Coffee shops, branded and independent, are spreading. | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
The idea of spending ?2, ?3 or even more pounds on a cup | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
of coffee no longer seems entirely alien to everyone. | :35:09. | :35:10. | |
Some have even spoken about a flat white economy. | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
If I'm honest I don't know what a flat white is | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
and I'm quite suspicious of the kind of people that order them. | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
But what I do know is that one of the fastest growing bits | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
Despite severe recession, despite a big squeeze | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
in household incomes, if you go back six years, about one in nine | :35:30. | :35:38. | |
Last year though, it was one in five. | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
In the last decade-and-a-half, the number of coffee outlets on | :35:43. | :35:44. | |
In the noughties that was driven by the growth of the brand of chains, | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
like Starbucks and Costa, but more recently there's been a pick-up | :35:50. | :35:52. | |
And the market has been entered by non-specialists. | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
Notably Gregg's the bakers and pub chain Wetherspoons. | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
We began our research 18 years ago and we were told the market was | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
already saturated then, there were enough coffee shops. | :36:06. | :36:07. | |
Today we are looking at over 22,000 coffee shops, | :36:08. | :36:09. | |
We think the market still has perhaps even double to go. | :36:10. | :36:17. | |
The rise of out of town supermarkets and internet shopping has impacted | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
on the high street, freeing up retail space and lowering rents. | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
That's giving major opportunities for quality coffee shops, | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
branded or nice quality independents to move in at affordable rents | :36:31. | :36:38. | |
People flock to coffee shops to socialise and,ing inially, to work. | :36:39. | :36:47. | |
People flock to coffee shops to socialise and to work. | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
And it is a meeting place of I guess people that | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
We have a lot of people that come in here and buy one coffee and sit | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
Combining the leisurely graces of 17th century England with | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
the colour, art and imagination of modern taste, | :37:05. | :37:06. | |
coffee houses like this one in Kensington are having a new... | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
The last decade wasn't Britain's first coffee shop boom. | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
Tastes change over time and the 1960s saw something similar, | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
But the first real coffee boom was 300 years before. | :37:15. | :37:23. | |
On the left we have something very exciting, a rather fetching blue | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
plaque marking the site of London's first coffee house, opened in 1562, | :37:27. | :37:35. | |
plaque marking the site of London's first coffee house, opened in 1652, | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
and within a couple of weeks Londoners were flocking here in | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
their hundreds to try out the bitter Mohammedan gruel, | :37:43. | :37:44. | |
a 17th century term for coffee, but I'm surprised no hipster coffee | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
Commerce was intrinsic to the coffee house experience. | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
Some of the institutions in the City, like the insurance | :37:52. | :37:53. | |
industry at Lloyds, and the stock markets, they all grew out of these | :37:54. | :38:03. | |
smoky candlelit coffee houses. | :38:04. | :38:04. | |
Until the arrival of coffee, most people were either slightly or | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
very drunk all day long, because you couldn't drink the river | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
So the arrival of coffee triggers the dawn of sobriety that lays the | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
foundation for spectacular economic growth in the decades that followed, | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
partly because people are thinking clearly for the first time. | :38:18. | :38:19. | |
Of course, 17th century coffee was very different. | :38:20. | :38:21. | |
Matthew Green still prepares it in the same way | :38:22. | :38:23. | |
It was routinely compared to oil, ink, soot, mud, | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
Coffee's relationship to the wider economy continues today. | :38:29. | :38:47. | |
Some people are using coffee shops as indicators of gentrification | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
I looked at coffee shops in an area and the number of chicken | :38:50. | :38:56. | |
My theory was if you find a place that has a high density | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
of coffee shops and low density of chicken shops and low house prices, | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
The presence of coffee shops might tell us if coffee prices in | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
But coffee doesn't tell us much about the state of the wider | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
economy, because this is a market that seems to keep on growing | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
The reason is because it is a narcotic and once we've started we | :39:18. | :39:31. | |
need evermore to keep us going. Before we go, we thought we should | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
mark the occasion of David Cameron's 10th anniversary as leader | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
of the Conservative Party. In that decade he left his daughter | :39:38. | :39:45. | |
in a pub and won a couple of elections. So here are some | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
of his highlights and low points. I want to talk about the future. He | :39:50. | :40:03. | |
was the future once. There is such a thing as society. It's just not the | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
same thing as the state. It is now formally a hung Parliament. I want | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
to make a big, open and comprehensive offer to the Liberal | :40:14. | :40:14. | |
Democrats. Calm down, dear, calm down. Of | :40:15. | :40:30. | |
course I would rather you supported West Ham. I'm a Villa fan. | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
REPORTER: Do you choose West Ham or Villa? Sorry, I had, these things | :40:37. | :40:43. | |
sometimes happen when you're on the stump. Together, together, together. | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
Let's pull together. Let's come together. Let's work together. | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
Together, together, together, together, and together. Too many | :40:56. | :41:05. | |
twits might make a twit. Hello there. Sunny spells and scattered | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
showers for Tuesday. We've got early | :41:12. | :41:12. |