Where is Gadaffi's gold plated pistol? Newsnight searches for it in the new Libya. Plus the Europe campaign, Serbia and the EU and white lines (in the road).
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This was 2011, the gun had belonged to the deposed Colonel Gadaffi.
So what's happened to that gun, this man and to Libya?
? OK. We return to Libya, where Gabriel Gatehouse discovers a
shattered country of warring tones. This is a crucial strategic point.
That way leads south. Whoever controls this road controls a vast
chunk of southern Libya. This wrote down here takes you to Sirte, just
beyond this point here, Islamic State controlled territory.
Also tonight, the Prime Minister has had his problems on Europe.
We'll be talking to the MP who said this of the deal on offer.
Will my right my honourable friend admits to the house that he has been
reduced to polishing boots? So what does he have to say
about his own campaign? Councils are talking about ditching
the white lines. Wear white lines are removed,
drivers have to pay more attention. They are much more cautious and
aware of traffic coming towards them, and also pedestrians and
cyclists. Not because it is not important,
but because it is in such a mess, And a difficult place
for journalists to safely report. But Libya's descent is a story that
needs to be told - with the so-called Islamic State
trying to fill the power Our reporter Gabriel Gatehouse
was in the country when Gaddafi was captured four years ago,
and he was intrigued by one Passed around the jubilant crowds,
it was the deposed dictator's Now Gabriel has been back,
with producer Warwick Harrington and cameraman Mark McCauley to find
out what became of it, the people who had it
and their country. The death of Gaddafi was the end and
the beginning. This footage broadcast for the first time shows
more clearly than ever the kernel's final moments. You can see him
pleading for his life. Bloodstained fighters became instant heroes,
brandishing the dictator's golden personal. -- pistol. I was there as
they passed it among themselves. A symbol, not only of their victory,
but of their dreams for a new Libya. The brutal nature of the kernel's
killing perhaps foreshadowed what was to come. Rival governments
backed by their own militias have left a vacuum in which Islamic State
inspiration. The Golden gun was the ultimate war trophy, the symbol of
the transfer of power in the new Libya. Today, we have a bunch of
different groups vying for control here, so I want to know, where is
the pistol now? Perhaps the fate of the Golden gun can tell us something
about what has happened to Libya. This is Misrata, home to the
fighters who caught Gaddafi. Today, it is an independent citystate and
the main focus is the battle against Islamic State. They have taken
control of the neighbouring city of Sirte. Once again, Misrata is on the
front line. Are you seeing senior figures from
Iraq and Syria now coming to Sirte? On his wall, the intelligence chief
has pictures of Misrata's euros with the Gaddafi's the Golden gun. The
pistol has retained mythical status and no one seems to know where it
is. But I have three leads. These are the people I met in 2011. An
appeal showed me the gun right after the capture of Gaddafi. Mohammed, on
the right, in the baseball cap, was hailed as a rule on the day. And
Anwar Suwan, a local power broker who is the word the kernel's body in
a meat locker. -- -- restored Colonel Gaddafi's body. Our search
takes us to the outskirts of Misrata. Nabil is a car mechanic who
has joined the militia fighting Islamic State. This is Nabil? We
learned that he is in fact on his way back from the front line at this
moment so we head off to meet him. This is as far as we can safely go
without armed escort. Gabriel Gatehouse. That's you, and that is
me. For Nabil and his comrade, the fighting did not end with the
capture of Colonel Gaddafi. Islamic State is active in this area,
carrying out attacks far beyond their base. The commander tells me,
God willing, they will prevail. Where is the gun, do you now? It is
in Misrata? Who has it? The gun is there, somewhere. But he does not
know who has it. In Misrata, in a half finished building, people have
gathered for a week. These men are from Sirte and they have managed to
escape the harsh regime of Islamic State.
This man's brother was arrested on suspicion of being a spy. He was
executed in the most horrific manner.
They show me a picture on a mobile phone. It is all over Facebook, they
say. The man's name was Milad and he was recently married. He left behind
an infant son. He was left like that for three days. His friends and
relatives have similar stories. They cut my nephew's head off with a
sword, says this man. Then they displayed his corpse in public for
four days. Over the past year, foreign fighters have poured into
Sirte, they say. It is so sad. These people had
thrown off the shackles of 42 years of dictatorship and what they found
is actually something worse than that, something equally brutal as
Gaddafi's regime but much more unpredictable. When Gaddafi was
killed, he was brought to Ms router. His body was put on public display
by my old contact, Anwar Suwan. At the end of 2011, that was when I
last saw you, and you had Colonel Gaddafi's body in a fridge. I am
hoping that Anwar and his friends can help us in our search for the
men who captured Gaddafi. Some appeared. One has lost his mind,
they tell me, but he is in Misrata. That is Mohammed. He was carried
aloft by the crowd, hailed as a hero. They promised to find his
number. The last time I saw Anwar, he and his men were high on hope.
Today, Libya is falling apart, fracturing a long deep fault lines.
Islamist versus sectional arrest -- secularist, East versus West.
Into this poisonous mix, Islamic State has injected itself. It has
made its base in the neighbouring city of Sirte but its reach is
expanding, carrying out attacks and suicide bombs across Libya. Because
the international forces are fighting Daesh in Syria and Iraq,
are you worried that they will come more strongly into Libya? Yes,
because Daesh feel that they will be finished in Iraq and Syria, so the
best place to come is here. Because there is not a strong governments to
fight here. Closed to Ms router is the ancient Roman city of lettuce
Magna. It is one of the best preserved archaeological sites in
North Africa. Should Islamic State reach this far, it will surely
suffer the same fate as the Syrian city of Palmeiro. The defence of the
site is less the volunteers. UNESCO world Heritage daters will not
protected. These men stand guard with nothing but a Kalashnikov.
Ali is begging for help, any kind of help. More men, money to pay his
men, even some radios. As it is, he is on his own. We left messages for
Mohammed, our final lead. But meanwhile, the military has given us
permission to visit their forward positions. We drive south into the
desert towards Sirte. It is where Gaddafi was from, and where he was
killed. Now it is the headquarters of Islamic State in North Africa.
120 kilometres from Misrata, the last line of defence against Islamic
State. This is a crucial strategic point. This fork in the road. That
way Leeds South, so whoever controls this road controls a vast chunk of
Southern Libya. This wrote down here takes you to Sirte and beyond this
point here is Islamic state controlled territory. Islamic State
in Libya has recruited loyalists of the deposed regime. Along with
foreign fighters, they make for a formidable foe. The combined force
against Islamic State your numbers about 1400 men, less than half the
estimated numbers of state fighters. Small numbers of NATO special forces
have, quietly, been sent him to explore potential local allies.
Britain, America and others are continuing sending a bigger force,
perhaps as many as 6000 troops in eight training capacity. But with no
agreement between Libya's rival governments, their deployment has
been held up. Sooner or later, this patch of desert will likely become
the next IES battle ground. -- the next Islamic State battle ground.
And then some news. Mohammed, it is Gabriel Gatehouse from the BBC. How
are you? I don't know if you remember, but we met in Sirte when
you captured Colonel Gaddafi. You remember me? How are you? Are you
free that is Mohammed, the guy in the blue top and the baseball cap.
He is here, and he speaks good English, and we are meeting in an
hour. Mohammed hello, how are you. We take
our shoes off? Is that your Playstation? You remember this? Yes.
It was like you were the hero of the moment. Everyone was lifting you up.
When they saw the guns of Gaddafi, they think I'm killing him and I
catch him. The rebels saw the gun in Mohammed's hand and so they thought
he was the one who killed Gaddafi. But he wasn't. Amid the confusion he
had found the pistol on the ground. Mohammed became the accidental hero
of the revolution. Do you know what happened to the gun, where is this
gun, can you get it? Yes, I will call my dad. He is with him. It is
with him? Yes. I think we may have found the gun! The family are wary
of their trophy, there are still Gaddafi loyalists there. Mohammed
ask us to tell the world it wasn't he who killed Gaddafi. His face will
be associated with that golden gun. But his father wanted to remain off
camera. You have the gun with you now? OK. Can I see it? Wow! There it
is. You take... Yes it is empty. Wow! That is extraordinary. Heavy.
It is heavy. It is a present from the son of Gaddafi. A present from
his son? I think. It is a celebration of Colonel Gaddafi's
rule. Extraordinary to see this thing again after four and a half
years. I held this on the day that everyone thought the revolution was
over and Libya was starting a bright new future and here we are nearly
five years down the line and this country's still at war with ifts.
When you found this gun, did you expect things to turn out this way?
I'm really sad about that. Because when I say the Libyan killing, it is
really so bad. The capture of the golden gun once symbolised the
dawning of a new era. Gone is the wild optimism of those heady days.
The gun today is a symbol of a revolution still unfinished, a rev
fusion whose fate may yet prove decisive in the wider struggle
against Islamic State. You gave us a close look at the
mess. In broad terms what are western governments thinking about
IS and the progress they have made there? They're worried in Iraq and
Syria IS has been contained in Libya they're being allowed to
proliferate. The Pentagon said they're looking at military options
to contain Islamic State in Libya. The question is what are the
options. I reported about the small number of Special Forces, looking
for local allies on the ground. There is this mooted force in a
training capacity. Training force that sounds intriguing. Possibly a
sleight of hand. Possibly 6,000 troops, possibly Italian led with
British involvement. Yesterday at the Foreign Secretary and his French
counter part tried to pour cold water on the idea of boots on the
ground. There is a sense in western capitals that they need to do
something, but they don't know thousand do it. -- how to do it.
Even if there were a unified government in Libya to give them the
green light, there is no sense they will. There is a sense the Libyans
are not focussed on Islamic State, its not their biggest problem. So if
the Libyan authorities won't act, does the west act unilaterally with
all the problems that implies. Thank you.
Claudia Gazzini is a specialist in Libya at the NGO,
Clearly, the ideal scenario would be for the disunited Libyan fighters to
get together and unite and then we would know who we are dealing with.
What is stopping that happening at the moment? Well the country has
been you know divided politically and militarily for almost two years.
You had political factions fighting each other and local allies also
fighting each other. You have a very fragmented security scene. There was
hope in 2015 that the UN-head peace process would lead to a Un if Ied --
unified government to overcome the factors. But the peace process is
stumbling, we don't have a government in place and the reason
for this is really that there wasn't enough leg work in preparing the
security dialogue, a security dialogue of the Libyan armed groups
to back the political process. So we are left with a stumbling political
process and no nationwide conversation between the groups that
are in deep distrust to each other. This a chaps that IS would kind --
chance that IS would focus minds and they would say we should sit down
and sort this so we can take on IS? Well there are some groups in Libya
that see this as a priority. But they're local rivals, that are
working to establish their own local authority. They're the politicians
that manoeuvre also these groups that are still engaged in a battle
for control of the country. So at the moment, I think the UN and also
international partners need to do more to help those Libyans, that
tentativety would be willing to pick up the fight to talk with one voice
and that is not happening yet. Are they good people there, are there
people who the west or the UN could seriously work with? Do you know
people there who you can pick the phone up to and have a conversation
with on these kinds of matters? There are, these are people I do
talk to as well. But to give you an example, Islamic State has its main
stronghold in Sirte, but it is also seeking to expand eastwards towards
Benghazi, where there is another presence of Islamic State. So the
local commanders in Benghazi tell me they're ready to engage in military
action against Islamic State to do so they think it is strategic to
bring on board on their side those Islamist leaning groups that have an
alliance with Islamic State, because they're being targeted as being an
internal enemy by other army forces. So they're saying we want to tackle
the Islamic State, we want to open up to these other Islamist leaning
groups and bring them on our side, but we have army commanders on the
ground that are refusing to do this. Their own commanders. We have talked
about the ideal scenario, in the unideal scenario, in which Libya
remain what is it is, can you see any useful intervention that the
west brings to bear in there? Well certainly the west needs to remain
engaged on Libya, on the security threat in Libya. Needs to increase
its intelligence operations in the country. Help support local groups.
But you know push, push and rethink maybe the political process. Bombing
called for at this point? I know that is what we normally do. From
what I hear there are already targeted strikes that do happen now
and then by some anonymous source. This is a continuation of what has
been, what is being... Happening in Libya. But rather than focussing on
bombing, and just military action from the air, I think the
international community, including the US and the UK, can do wonders if
they do start engaging with military actors in the east, because your
correspondent was in Misrata and that is the main focus of attention
of international military, but there are other regions in Libya that
needs to be engaged in order to have this war. Thank you very much.
By the way, you can see more of Gabriel's report from Libya
in Our World this weekend on the BBC News Channel -
The Prime Minister has not had the warmest of receptions
We showed you the negative newspaper front pages last night.
Today, the reaction moved to the Commons.
Our political editor David Grossman has been there.
The institutions of Europe or the parliaments of
For some MPs it is that question which encapsulates the debate
Under the statue of Parliament's architect, Sir Charles Barry,
one pro-EU Conservative MP told me that the Prime Minister had not come
Naturally, I was someone who wanted to be convinced.
The question I asked myself, if this is the very best that EU
leaders can offer us, at a point when there is a very
serious risk that Britain will exit, what does it mean if we tie
ourselves in to the long-term future?
Today was the first opportunity the Commons got to question
the Prime Minister about the proposed deal and the issue
of UK Parliamentary sovereignty was raised by Boris Johnson.
He wants to know how the deal would change EU treaties.
So as to assert the sovereignty of this House of Commons
The Prime Minister's answer suggested that something along those
I am keen to do even more to put beyond doubt that this House
of Commons is sovereign and that is something we will look
to do at the same time as concluding these negotiations.
This afternoon David Cameron was asked about this
If there is more we can do to secure Britain's sovereignty
and to reform our situation in terms of the Human Rights Act,
then I will be very keen to do that.
Do you deny that ministers are working on such a proposal,
that you expect to publish alongside the final deal?
I have answered the question very clearly.
Tomorrow, backbenchers have managed to get a Commons debate
Many are particularly critical of the so-called red card proposal
where if 15 parliaments across the EU bands together,
they may be able to block the initiative.
At the moment, there isn't enough on the table and most people
The red card system, pulling together other parliaments
to stop unwanted legislation in this country, is simply not
I think the Prime Minister realises that, but perhaps has left himself
open to a chink of light, so he can pull something out
of the bag, depending on the strength of the opposition,
to the proposals later in the debate.
What would you like to get from them, given he has to pass 27
Fundamental change, which is what he promised
For many of us, that means the ability in this Parliament
and other parliaments as well, in their own respect,
to say no, to stop any unwonted EU directives.
For Sarah Woolaston at least, a guarantee that the UK Parliament
is sovereign over EU law would be very welcome.
Because if at the moment, this emergency programme relies
on 14 other members approximately agreeing to it, then realistically,
But for Ken Clarke, it's impossible to have such a guarantee
They're very keen on pressing things they know that are
You could not belong to NATO if you said that the British
parliament could unilaterally override our NATO obligations
You could not join the United Nations if you said
the British Parliament is sovereign and it must be free
And reject the terms of the Charter.
The World Trade Organisation, the IMF.
The idea that you turn up and say, of course, the government has signed
up to all this but back home, I have a parliament which can reject
any treaty obligations that the government can object
It is difficult to imagine what form of words would satisfy sceptical
Conservative MPs and the EU leaders who think the answer to Europe's
Now it is worth having a look at the newspapers, which are interesting
headlines of the daily mail a big headline, who will speak for
England? They explain by England, they mean the whole of the United
Kingdom. They're quoting I think Arthur Greenwood in 1939. They liken
the decisions we are making at this point to ones taken in 1939 when we
went to war. The Times leads on cancer, but there is a piece about
Michael Gove torn between Cameron and excite -- exit and the Guardian,
Prime Minister's hard line woos Johnson.
Let's focus on the Leave campaign now.
There have been mumblings about why there are two Leave campaigns,
And there's been dissent within one of the two,
Tonight, Lord Lawson has been parachuted in as a new chairman.
Some have called it disarray, others say it has now
Steve Baker is a Conservative MP and member of Vote Leave -
he is also chair of the Westminster group Conservatives for Britain.
In. Let's start with the question of sovereignty. As a sceptic, do you
see a way that the minister can assert the sovereignty of the
British Parliament above the treaties of the EU without us
leaving? No, it is very simple. You repeal the European communities act.
There are two ideas around. One is a constitutional court, which is
dangerous without a codified constitution. The other is
positively dangerous. The idea of passing an act of Parliament to say
we are sovereign would bring the sovereignty of Parliament within the
jurisdiction of the courts, creating at best a paradox and at worst
something dangerous. Did Phillips Hammond not say something about
this? Yes, on the 7th of June last year, he appeared on the Andrew Marr
Show and said positively that giving us a veto over EU law would be
tantamount to an exit. Roger is the same as your view? You agree to the
clerk? Yes. You cannot have it both ways. -- you agree with Ken Clarke.
Boris Johnson, the headline in the Guardian, saying that he is tilting
towards the end campaign. Is that a blow for you? At this stage, I have
said I'm happy to go into the campaign, proud of that we have.
With fewer men, a greater share of honour. But the reality is,
conservatives cannot believe everything they read in the
Guardian. You are hopeful that maybe he will come your way? I am grateful
for every Conservative MP, every parliamentarian and voter, of
whatever political party, who joins the campaign to leave. Of course I
would like more, we would like all of the members of the Cabinet. Is
Lord Lawson going to be the leader of the campaign? He was big in the
80s. Like Ross. I would like the Prime Minister to lead us out of the
EU. -- like Bros. Lord Lawson's role is to be the political colossus that
he is. He lives in France! That is a good thing for Eurosceptic. But he
is not working there, in France, although is he getting benefits?
Under the Vienna writes, he would be entitled to live there under the
rights he has acquired. The point is that he is a political colossus and
it is evident to anyone that we have work to do to reach out to the other
campaigns who wish to leave the European Union in order to
collaborate and make sure that parliamentarians feel much more
closely engaged with whatever political party is in the campaign.
And that is what Lord Lawson's jobbies. You said the vote to leave
campaign needed material changes. You were one of those who
complained. I think I have been wearing a blue helmet for the UN.
There have been changes tonight, with Dominic Cummings stepping down
from the board. That was always planned. Was it? So why would you
complaining? I was not complaining. I think the issue of why is one for
people's memoirs. It is an issue for the board and the individuals
involved. I'm sure it will be remembered differently in different
people's memoirs. Dominic and I have not always agreed but I have learned
to love him. He is a brilliant man and he will win this campaign. So it
is all sorted? There is no material change? He is still running the
campaign but not on the board? The material changes that Lord Lawson
and Lord Forsyth are joining us to bring additional political capital
which will be used. It is up to Lord Lawson on the board to decide how to
do it, and it will be used to improve our relations with the other
campaigns. You are going to merge with the other campaign, Orange you?
They are saying they wanted to join and they are going to join. As
politicians often say, there are no plans for a merger. We need to get
to the point where there is a single designated campaign. Vote Leave will
apply for designation and I am supporting Vote Leave. I believe
Vote Leave will win the referendum. What we need to do is make sure that
every single person of decency and goodwill who wishes to participate
in the referendum has their place. And that is the negotiation which
must take place. That is the accommodation which must be reached.
In a word, would you like to be a merger? I don't think it is
possible. The reason is there are genuine disagreements about strategy
and tactics. A pity we do not have time to go into those. Thank you
very much. While we might be thinking
of getting out of the EU, one country trying
to get in is Serbia. It's remarkable to think
that just 16 years ago, our relationship
was defined by this. These days, Serbia is trying to be
a model European state, and in fact it's been
commended for its approach If you look at the map,
it sits on the refugee route Thousands travel
through it on their way. They can't get through Hungary any
more, so the ones who are allowed, What do the Serbs make
of the EU's current state? The Prime Minister is in London
today and I sat down with him. I ask them how many migrants and
refugees were currently making their way through his country. -- I asked
him. In 2016, originally 1820 people a day. And it is much less than it
was before. I think that so far we have had 750,000, more than that
passing through. I can tell you I was in Brussels several times with
the European leaders, regarding this issue. And what we were dissatisfied
with was that Europe could not find a conference of solution on the
migrant crisis. -- a comprehensive solution. We were saying, whatever
you say to us, we will deliver. We were the only country that treated
those people in a very human way, showing solidarity. You did not see
tear gas or batons, or whatever I imagine in Serbia. And only in
Serbia. We accepted those people because we had such a terrible
experience 20 and 25 years ago, and we knew how those people might feel.
But on the other hand, we were also ready to be part of the European
solution, including having five or 10,000 people in our country, if
they would like to stay in our country. 5000 or 10,000, is that the
number? 15,000, it doesn't matter. We would agree. But we are a small
Serbia. If we say that, it means that Holland should say, OK, 70
80,000. There has been a harsh rhetoric, a more brutal tone coming
from some of the Western and Eastern countries. I think it has been less
cooperative. Some are saying, hang on, these guys, we let them into the
EU and when we need them, they have not been there for us. I don't think
it is all about the influx of those people. It is not about the
migration crisis. It is also about the internal political issues.
People use that. It was very easy to criticise the situation about the
migrant crisis, to get political points internally. And that is what
we do not do. I don't care about internal political points. We don't
care about that. We reacted in a very European way. We will have
elections in three months in Serbia, and I will not flatter anybody, by
saying that our country has been jeopardised by those people but
would like to settle down. No, come on. This is important because your
country did have a populist demagogue, and some. We learn
something from our own mistakes. It is the best way to learn it. From
time to time, it is good to avoid it but we could not. There is talk of
various ways that Europe could respond to this. If Germany said,
OK, enough is enough and we shut our borders, then what happens? Because
you get is backing up of refugees, passing through your country and
other countries. We cooperate very closely. And we collaborate with
Germany. Very closely. And with all the others. We will do whatever they
say to us, whatever would be the European decision. And I say to
them, if you would say one day, close the border, but I don't think
that would be the best possible solution. I don't agree with it but
I will do it if the Europeans would tell us too. You would close your
border? If they say to us that would be a good common European solution,
we would deliver on that, but we just need to hear what that
comprehensive European solution is. Thank you very much.
We've heard a lot about red lines in the last few weeks,
I know what you're thinking - where's our coverage of white lines?
They are, we are told, in danger, as councils
White lines, they always seem to have been with us, like queueing and
the EU referendum. If you like interesting facts about signage, the
white line has been on British roads for about a century. But now more
and more of them are disappearing. This was once a busy road near
popular museums in London. Today, it is still quite a busy road, albeit
with a nice, wide promenade of a pavement. The guidelines are gone.
It is an incredible transition. Many viewers will remember years ago how
much traffic was on this road and how dangerous it felt as a road. But
now, we are standing here and traffic is moving fairly slowly. It
has transformed the road. It is a space for everyone to enjoy,
families, children, walkers, cyclists. The absence of white lines
seems to wake up motorists to the idea that they are the ones
responsible for the safety of their cars, all good? Maybe not. The
problem is, to do it properly it is very expensive. The scheme cost
something like ?40 million and most local highway authorities do not
have that money. Just to peel off the white lines? It is more than
that, broadening pavements, changing the signing so that there is less
clutter, and the pavement texture is better. It costs a lot of money. And
often there are few objections. Some of them with good reason. People
like the RNIB, who look after blind and partially sighted people, they
do not like pavements like this. There is not a curb, so if you are
blind or partially sighted, it is easy to walk into the road. You and
I are safe drivers but some of them, really... If only this fellow was
driving on one of the roads in London on Norfolk where white lines
have not been repainted since resurfacing. In East Anglia, they
are predicting personal injury accidents could fall by a fifth.
This comes after the Dutch pioneered shared space on roads, challenging
the presumption of some drivers that they had priority. It works well in
those small, medieval Dutch villages where you have more cyclists than
cars so you can take away the lines on pavements and slows down. That is
pretty different to the bullring in Birmingham or London or streets
around Glasgow or Edinburgh, where there is more traffic, and the
traffic goes faster. We are not really comparing like with like. It
is not about abandoning rules, it is a different way of enforcing them.
In an age of reduced funding for police and reduce police
enforcement, we need more innovative measures that will make drivers
drive slower. But are we nearly losing road markings or great
signifiers of cultural importance? Perhaps they are really lines in the
sand. We leave you with the latest piece
to camera from Youtube travel