Browse content similar to 22/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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This programme contains scenes which some viewers | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
were a lot of kids. What will you do now? I don't know. We are lost. | :00:00. | :00:32. | |
A harrowing IS attack on Brussels, | :00:33. | :00:33. | |
on the open society it represents, and on Europe too. | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
What can the continent do to thwart these attacks, | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
The terrorist have struck Belgium. But it is Europe which has been | :00:39. | :00:51. | |
targeted. It is the whole world which is concerned with this. | :00:52. | :01:03. | |
One of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, where most | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
Tens of thousands working for the EU and thousands more of course, | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
Brussels was rocked by three explosions this morning, | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
killing more than thirty people and injuring 200 or so more. | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
International terror, attacking the whole concept | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
of an international, tolerant urban environment. | :01:25. | :01:25. | |
Well, no-one is surprised this has occurred, given the Brussels | :01:26. | :01:27. | |
connection to the French terror attacks last year; | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
For a look at the day's events, here's Gabriel Gatehouse. | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
I am about 300 metres from Maelbeek station. Behind me is the European | :01:37. | :01:47. | |
Parliament building. It is eerily quiet on the streets below. People | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
are gathering tonight at the Place de la Bourse. There are candles. | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
People are writing messages in chalk on the ground. Similar to the scenes | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
we saw in Paris. There is always an emotional response to these events | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
and a collective emotional response at that. Our first report. | :02:09. | :02:18. | |
The first bomber struck at check-in. As people were dropping off their | :02:19. | :02:26. | |
bags at the American Airlines desk. The second hit a nearby Starbucks. | :02:27. | :02:34. | |
These pictures show the scene moments after the blast ripped | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
through the familiar rituals of international air travel. I see an | :02:38. | :02:48. | |
explosion. Like an orange ball. A fireball? Yes, I think, but it is so | :02:49. | :02:57. | |
quick. 25 metres from us. One minute before we were there at the place of | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
the explosion. You missed it by one minute? Yes. We should have probably | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
died. The Nessa and Xavier Woods meant to be travelling to Miami for | :03:10. | :03:19. | |
a holiday in the sun. -- Vanessa and Xavier one meant to be. They ran out | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
in a panic. The attackers had planned a third explosion. But | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
failed to go off. But by then the departure lounge was littered with | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
bodies. There is kids. A lot of kids. A lot of injured. A lot of | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
people on the ground. I don't understand. The two explosions at | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
the airport came at around 8am. Within seconds of each other. At | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
least ten people were killed. Then just over an hour later, 11 minutes | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
past 9am, another attack. This time on a Metro train in the heart of the | :03:57. | :04:06. | |
European quarter. It was the height of the rush-hour. Passengers were | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
evacuated along the smoke filled tunnels beyond the headquarters of | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
the EU. The bomb had exploded on the train up ahead in the middle | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
carriage of a three car train, killing around 20 people. Above | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
ground a huge security operation began. People working in nearby | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
offices rushed out to find what had happened and were horrified by what | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
they saw. Bodies on the floor. People just covering them with | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
towels and sheets. And the side there was a young girl. Seems like | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
student age. All alone. She was just sat on the floor crying. In what was | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
a very chaotic adrenaline filled moment, you know, she summed it up | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
to me. There was literally horror on the streets of Belgium. All public | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
transport in the city was shut down. Outside the headquarters of the | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
European Commission today bureaucrats were replaced by | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
soldiers. If the aim is to paralyse they have certainly achieved that | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
aim. This is the heart of Europe, the place where all of the | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
commission buildings are centred. And look it is and complete | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
lockdown. Apart from the police nobody is going in or coming out. | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
This was not just an attack on Europe, but perhaps on Nato, too. | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
Whose planes bombing Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, and whose | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
headquarters are in Brussels. By now a manhunt was underway. Police | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
circulated a picture of the attackers at the airport, seen here | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
pushing trolleys through the airport minutes before the attack. | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
TRANSLATION: A photograph of three male suspects was taken at Zaventem | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
airport. Three of them appear to have committed suicide attacks. The | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
third in a light-coloured jacket and a hat is being searched for. As | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
police search for the man in the light jacket, the city was coming to | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
terms with its darkest days since the Second World War. As in Paris | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
they responded with a show of unity. Only last Friday one of the suspects | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
in the Paris attacks was arrested here in Brussels. Many have been | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
waiting nervously for something similar. For those whose lives were | :06:21. | :06:28. | |
changed for ever today, defiance was mixed with the will demand. How do | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
you understand? We were going on holiday. The minute later it is a | :06:36. | :06:45. | |
nightmare. It is not a good day. Tonight there are searches on going | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
across the country. Police are Brussels has owned in on an | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
apartment where they say they have found an IS flag and another | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
explosive device. But the hunt for the missing, continues. | :06:58. | :07:08. | |
by John Crombez, leader of the opposition in the Flemish | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
parliament and a former minister, and by Beatrice Delvaux, | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
the lead columnist for Le Soir newspaper. | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
This is a day nobody wanted to begin. Yes. Very rare for him to | :07:20. | :07:31. | |
express himself like that. It is a sad day for Belgium. A lot of fear. | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
Today was full of sadness. People knew that something like that could | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
happen. But at the same time we were surprised. Especially because it was | :07:42. | :07:49. | |
after the victory of the capture of Salah Abdeslam. We thought it was | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
the beginning of a solution but that wasn't the case. John, the security | :07:53. | :07:59. | |
forces, and their role in this, is this something Belgian steel proud | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
of at the moment, or is there a sense of something has gone badly | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
wrong here? -- still proud. It has gone wrong because Belgium has been | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
hit in a way we haven't seen before, or since a long time. We are | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
confronted with networks of terrorists where the intelligence | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
and the anti-terror units are going to need to be upgraded in a sense | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
that they need the right instruments, the right number of | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
people, the right exchange of information that is going to go | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
beyond what we have today. Do you think this problem is bigger than | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
Belgium can cope with? It is a small country. It is a big problem. It is | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
disproportionately bit in Belgium. I just wonder if it is one this | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
country can handle. What is going to be important is that we don't | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
consider this as a Belgium problem. Like before when it happened in | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
France, a French problem. And in London. And wherever else. This is | :09:03. | :09:10. | |
where Europe needs to talk about shared intelligence. That is | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
something that needs to be European. It isn't bigger than Europe. Europe | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
should be able to manage this together. You talk about European | :09:19. | :09:26. | |
issues and the international nature of the threat. I just wonder whether | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
this is such an international city, isn't it? I think it was ranked the | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
second most international after Dubai. In terms of proportion of | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
people born overseas who are living here. I wonder whether that shapes | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
the response here, and shapes what people feel about the nature of the | :09:45. | :09:52. | |
threat here. No, I think, basically the Belgians fear what can happen in | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
other cities, too. We are near to Paris. We live very near the French | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
people. We thought that what happened in Charlie Hebdo and at the | :10:03. | :10:09. | |
Bataclan could happen here. There is this link between the Belgian | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
terrorist in the French terrorists after what happened in Paris. It was | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
by French people and people who were born here in Belgium. But they can | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
travel through the frontiers. They can travel between the countries | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
because there was not enough exchange of information between the | :10:26. | :10:32. | |
two countries. Salah Abdeslam was able to cross the border after the | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
Bataclan. The French police didn't identify him. It wasn't that the | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
French did anything wrong, or the French or the Belgian police, but if | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
they don't work together it won't be solved. We have already started, in | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
this conversation, having a small inquest into things which may have | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
gone wrong. This possibly is in the days of this inquest, is it? I don't | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
know what you think. This is not the day for those kinds of difficult | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
questions. Belgium has been hit by something so big. It hasn't been hit | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
by something like this in decades. Politicians react in the same way. | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
Even perhaps the media. If we can manage this we are going to have to | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
manage this together. This is no time for politics in finding | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
oppositions, but really finding solutions. And fast. Do that really | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
fast. People need security. People need to be aware of the fact that we | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
can overcome this. We are going to need to do this together. We often | :11:40. | :11:47. | |
think of Belgium as a country divided between French and Flemish. | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
We joke about how long it takes to form a government in Belgium. I just | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
wonder whether this is one of those psychological or physical shocks to | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
a nation which, in a sense, develops deeper spirit, or not? I would like | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
to be as optimistic as you are. Like any other country, after few days, | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
you have to go back. After the Charlie Hebdo, you know one | :12:13. | :12:20. | |
political party, one Flemish, during two or three days there was a sense | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
of union between the political parties. After that, the Flemish | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
nationalist party issued a statement saying that it was the fault of the | :12:28. | :12:36. | |
French Socialists, of the Islamic behaviour, or the fact that they | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
were sympathetic to the Islamic type of behaviour. Then it exploded. Then | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
the fight came back again. I think today is maybe not the day to ask | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
questions. Tomorrow will be. We don't know what to think. Months ago | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
we had success against terrorism. In the South of France we arrested | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
people before and killed them before they could be able to commit crimes. | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
Then we arrested Salah Abdeslam. At the same time, we think we can | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
handle this, but then at the same time, this happened today and we | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
just ask questions. Should we have known. And this is a question for | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
tomorrow. We won't stop asking them because of some union that has to be | :13:26. | :13:35. | |
here today. Let's finish by asking. Lifestyle changes... There are | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
countries like Israel where security is embedded in everything. Something | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
everybody does because they have been used more of these kinds of | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
events than most of us in Europe. The thing Belgians or other | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
Europeans are ready to significantly change lifestyles to put security at | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
a higher priority? -- do you think. No, and I would say the reaction | :13:58. | :14:07. | |
today is quite strong already, that people are saying, we will not hand | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
our country over to this kind of terrorism. We don't need that | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
overcome this, but we are going to need to be very strong and improve | :14:17. | :14:24. | |
on security to do that. We can only say we will survive this as a | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
society, we need to make security stronger, information stronger. But | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
it will be more intrusive? Absolutely. Thank you both very much | :14:33. | :14:39. | |
indeed. Solidarity is one of the features in these ghastly days. | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
Everybody declaring themselves to be at one with the community under | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
assault. There has been a particularly strong degree of | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
solidarity between the French and Belgians in recent months, both | :14:52. | :14:53. | |
victims of a Brussels-based jihadists al. There was solidarity | :14:54. | :15:01. | |
in lights tonight, with the Eiffel Tower eliminated in Boeljon colours. | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
But that has been tension between those two countries, Belgium | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
bridling at some of the criticism it faced losing control of that | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
district of Molenbeek, and any tension between Belgium and France | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
points to a bigger problem, that Europe talks about solidarity, but | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
exhibits too little of it when it comes to security cooperation. So we | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
are going to spend the next few minutes thinking about different | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
aspects of the threat and how to deal with it. | :15:30. | :15:31. | |
This looks like a pretty catastrophic failure | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
What do our security services say about this? | :15:35. | :15:46. | |
There have been persistent reports that Belgian intelligence has been | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
swamped by the caseload, and that is not coming from British security | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
sources, but from European ones. And the numbers would seem to back that | :15:57. | :16:05. | |
up. 350 jihadis from Belgium have travelled to Syria to fight the | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
so-called Islamic state. In terms of per capita population, that is the | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
biggest problem of any country in Europe. I spoke to counterterrorism | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
sources here today, and they were reluctant to criticise their Belgian | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
counterterrorist counterparts here today, but they did say that some | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
don't have Sabitzer victory close enough relationships with police, | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
and I spoke to a former French government minister tonight, and he | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
told me there is a problem with Belgian policing. And to look at | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
this, you really have to consider one fact. After the Paris attacks, | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
they were hunting for Salah Abdeslam, and it took them four | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
months to find him, and he was hiding in plain sight in central | :16:45. | :16:52. | |
Brussels. And given the nature of the targets today, it was an | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
airport, but it was landside, not air side, so no security. What's to | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
security people think you can do about those kinds of targets and how | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
you cope with that? Protecting a soft target is the key, clearly, and | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
I have been speaking to security experts today talking about a rather | :17:15. | :17:16. | |
controversial technique called behavioural analysis, and this | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
basically means putting plainclothes people into locations where they can | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
watch passengers before they pass through security, before they mount | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
planes and trains, and this is what one security expert had to say to me | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
today. Behavioural analysis is all about identifying somebody was | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
negative intent, it doesn't matter whether it is a passenger, crew | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
member, or airport insider. I have long advocated that this should | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
either private method -- primary method of screening at airports, in | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
the UK and worldwide, and there has been so much resistance over the | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
years because people feel that we are going to be racially Provine | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
people rather than making intelligent decisions based on | :18:00. | :18:07. | |
common sense. -- racially profiling. Richard Watson, thank you very much | :18:08. | :18:08. | |
indeed. We can't be tough on terror | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
or the causes of terror without understanding the things | :18:12. | :18:13. | |
that make it flourish. To understand those things | :18:14. | :18:15. | |
by the way is not to justify And sadly, fairly or not, | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
it's the Brussels district of Molenbeek that often comes up | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
as exhibit number one, of community conditions | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
ripe for terror. Secunder Kermani has been | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
spending time in Molenbeek, he's been making a Panorama | :18:29. | :18:30. | |
programme that will air tomorrow He is with me now. And it isn't just | :18:31. | :18:42. | |
Molenbeek that is the focus of the attention this evening. Yes, we have | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
seen raids in a district called Tabac three, about 15 minutes from | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
Molenbeek, both of these areas fairly central in Brussels. -- in a | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
district called Schaerbeek. They are in a geographical semicircle of | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
deprived areas around a central canal in Brussels, and we have seen | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
people look at Molenbeek as the centre of radicalisation, but it is | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
not as simple as that, people move around. The Paris attackers, they | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
came from Molenbeek but they also had a safe house in Schaerbeek where | :19:22. | :19:29. | |
they manufactured suicide belts, and we don't know what connection there | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
is between today's attacks and the attacks in Paris. We see areas | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
outside of Brussels, Antwerp is also seen significant numbers of young | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
people go over to Syria. But with all those caveats, if you want to | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
understand the causes behind radicalisation in Belgium, Molenbeek | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
is as good a place as any to go, and I went back there today, as well as | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
of course there being a lot of sympathy for the victims are today's | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
awful events, there is also a sense of foreboding about what the events | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
could mean for the community there and their place in society. | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
Molenbeek has become notorious. We don't know if today's attackers came | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
from here, but it has been the centre of Belgian's problems with | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
radicalisation. Just last Friday, security services here celebrate the | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
capture of Salah Abdeslam, the final member of the group that attacked | :20:24. | :20:30. | |
Paris in November. Many in a support network all grew up in Molenbeek. | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
Today's attacks have left some here worrying what will be revealed and | :20:36. | :20:36. | |
what will happen next. Belgium has a higher number of | :20:37. | :21:10. | |
jihadi is in Syria per capita than anywhere else in Europe, and for the | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
past few weeks, I have been spending time here to try to understand why. | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
One reason many in the Muslim community here and is that when the | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
Syrian conflict started, authorities didn't seem overly concerned by the | :21:26. | :21:27. | |
presence of recruiters. Molenbeek has 40% youth | :21:28. | :22:14. | |
unemployment. There are a lot of disaffected young men here, and some | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
are susceptible to the IS message. This Sheikh used to be one of | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
Molenbeek's most well-known preachers, but is now in Syria with | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
a rebel group fighting against both IS and the Assad regime. In | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
Molenbeek, many labelled him a radical, but unlike a new generation | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
of IS jihadists, he says he is firmly against attacks in the West. | :22:40. | :22:55. | |
I asked him why he thought so many young people from his old | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
neighbourhood joined IS. For some, this solution to the | :23:01. | :24:20. | |
threat to IS lies in resolving the Syrian crisis. For others, it lies | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
closer to home, but whatever the solutions are, they are already too | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
late for today's victims. And don't forget Panorama's | :24:28. | :24:29. | |
special report - Inside Europe's Terror Attacks - | :24:30. | :24:31. | |
is on BBC One at 9pm tomorrow. Let's pull some of these | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
threads together. Muslim community | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
leader Taufik Amlize Is from the centre for the Muslim | :24:41. | :24:55. | |
community. What proportion to you are not supporters of Isis, but | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
disenchanted, fed up and basically hate the society in which they live? | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
Our situation in Brussels especially is that we have a high level of | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
economic deprivation. People are feeling anger, there is a lot of | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
bitterness. We have facts and figures that show that either you | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
are under skilled or over skilled, you don't get enough chance to get | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
the job, or to get the right opportunities. And this situation is | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
really giving the field to make the narratives of Isis very attractive | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
to those people. So it is very hard to counter a narrative that says | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
there is nothing here, come with us in Syria... So why is Isis the thing | :25:44. | :25:51. | |
that appeals to people? Some of these cases, like Salah Abdeslam, | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
they have been through a variety of odd lifestyles, drugs, other crime, | :25:56. | :26:02. | |
all of those things. What is it about Isis that is appealing? Maybe | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
it is the simplistic certainties, but it seems there are so many | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
things that could tempt you aside. It is a purpose. They try to find a | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
purpose from themselves. They are looking for something from which | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
they can leave, maybe they can die. We hear strong and powerful | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
statements from those youngsters saying that there is nothing for to | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
live here, it is preferable to go and die there. So these persons who | :26:29. | :26:35. | |
are doing very bad things, they are bad guys, and the Justice should do | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
his job to try to put them in jail, burqas the Muslim community has | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
nothing to do with those people, they are also attracted to the fact | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
that Isis is really giving them a narrative. And what proportion we | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
talking about? Have described anger, and there are lots of communities | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
where people are angry or feel disenchanted, and there is this | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
other problem which is Isis, which is a subset, a smaller part of the | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
anger problem. And what proportion of people are flirting with the | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
thoughts of caliphates and so on? We don't have the figures. You meet | :27:16. | :27:22. | |
them? Every day, or every now and then? Not every day. We meet them of | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
course because we need to help them to find and the right people. Does | :27:28. | :27:37. | |
it work, what you do? Can use it an angry person who has gone off the | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
rails and who wants to be a martyr or supports a bunch of people in | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
Syria, do you find you can take those people, sit them down, talk to | :27:44. | :27:52. | |
them and cure them of that? It is long-term work, it is a long-term, | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
but we can do that, and we have to do that. There is no choice. We have | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
to take some with our expert eyes, and bring them not only strong | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
narratives, we need to show them that they have the chance to get | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
real opportunities, so that is why we need to work with the political | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
bodies, with the Governments, so that our narrative is really giving | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
a sense to them. Just walking to the will not be enough. You also need to | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
give the reality of the opportunities. How do we get out of | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
this cycle which we have had in other episodes? The cycle in which | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
society, or people in society, blame the Muslims, and Muslims say, we are | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
not to blame, you are to blame because you have maltreated us or | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
you are racist. It is an incredibly unconstructive dialogue between | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
elements of the Muslim community and the broader community. Identity now | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
how we break out of this ghastly cycle. It is a constant debate. How | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
far can you be responsible as a community for the behaviour of | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
certain of the community? It Israeli hard, because you need really to | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
make the line between the community, the Muslim community, which is | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
peaceful, and those who are doing those deeds. And as a Muslim | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
community, we are also suffering from what is happening. We were also | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
victims, but we are also policemen, we are giving blood in hospitals. So | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
this is really something that we need to make sure that they don't | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
divide us. We are as a Belgian population also free from terrorism, | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
and if we divide ourselves between Muslims who are condemning and those | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
who are not condemning, then we are just playing the game of Isis, | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
because the purpose is to divide, so we all must say to the Belgian | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
community, Belgian society, do not... Don't fall for that, don't | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
divide. And that is the main motto we have. Thank you very much. That | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
is it from Brussels this evening. These terror days, waking up to the | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
news and realising just how bad it is, these are becoming grimly | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
familiar in their characteristics, and I wonder how many more we can | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
take before they become not familiar but routine. It will be a very sad | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
threshold across that we stop being shocked or outraged by them, but I | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
can say from Brussels, we are long way from that yet. Back to London. | :30:26. | :30:33. | |
Away from that dreadful atrocity in Brussels. | :30:34. | :30:41. | |
At Westminster today the fallout over Ian Duncan Smith's resignation | :30:42. | :30:43. | |
played out in the final day of the Budget debate | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
with George Osborne taking the highly unusual step of leading | :30:47. | :30:48. | |
He almost blithely batted off the idea of a ?4.4 billion black | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
hole caused by his U turn on disability benefit cuts, | :30:53. | :30:54. | |
praised IDS extravagantly but while admitting | :30:55. | :30:56. | |
that the now scrapped cuts to Personal Independence Payments | :30:57. | :30:58. | |
were a mistake, refused to make any apology for the disarray. | :30:59. | :31:01. | |
But he's left with a barrel load of problems for a man famed | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
for believing in long term plans - how to meet his welfare cap, | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
and how to built credibility as a contender for the leadership | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
after successive Budget meltdowns, oh and the fact that he has | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
staked his future on the outcome of the EU referendum. | :31:14. | :31:15. | |
Here's our political editor David Grossman. | :31:16. | :31:26. | |
You do not need to be a professor of body language to detect the change | :31:27. | :31:34. | |
in the chance's Tamina. The man who looked imperious and confident on | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
Budget day today seemed far less sure of himself as he headed for the | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
Commons, tracked back to salvage his Budget and his reputation. -- | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
Chancellor's demeanour. The Chancellor has been doing quite | :31:46. | :31:57. | |
a lot of giving way since the Budget. Buffeted by criticism from | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
his own party and the resignation of Iain Duncan Smith. He was a rather | :32:02. | :32:09. | |
more humble George Osborne, first paying tribute to his parting | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
colleague. Of course there is always robust discussion between the | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
Treasury and the spending department where money needs to be saved. The | :32:19. | :32:25. | |
decisions we made to keep our economy secure are always difficult. | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
We must be prepared to listen and learn. Especially when we don't get | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
it wrong. We worked together longer than any two people, doing our jobs | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
before we sat in any government. And we have been part of a team that has | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
reduced the number of those out of work benefits to levels not seen in | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
40 years. He's given way not just disability benefits, but also the | :32:52. | :33:03. | |
government is not shifting on what has been done about solar panel | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
payments and tax on sanitary products. It was described as deeply | :33:07. | :33:12. | |
unfair, drifting in the wrong direction that will divide the | :33:13. | :33:16. | |
country, not united. And he said all of those words after the Chancellor | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
announced he was ditching the cuts on PIPs the. Is he deluded? Labour | :33:22. | :33:29. | |
is not worrying the Chancellor, rather how those on his own side | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
reacted. This is the new intake of Conservative MPs posing just after | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
the election. George Osborne has, according to somebody who knows his | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
mind, been wrong-footed by the zeitgeist of this group who are far | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
more concerned about helping the working poor than bringing down | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
taxes for higher income groups. It was perhaps with them in mind the | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
Chancellor offered this personal manifesto. | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
These are the people that I am fighting for, real, decent, | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
hard-working people, not numbers on a Treasury | :34:03. | :34:03. | |
spreadsheet but people whose lives would be impoverished, | :34:04. | :34:05. | |
whose hopes and aspirations would be crushed, if we had gone | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
on spending more and more than the country earns. | :34:09. | :34:10. | |
Getting things right for these people is what I am all about. | :34:11. | :34:13. | |
Today, the Government's independent forecasters, | :34:14. | :34:14. | |
the Office for Budget Responsibility, were being grilled | :34:15. | :34:16. | |
on their analysis of the Treasury Select Committee. | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
The concern from this group of MPs is that the Chancellor has allowed | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
clever politics to get in the way of sound fiscal planning. | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
The Chancellor is absolutely right to commit himself to eradicating | :34:30. | :34:31. | |
the deficit, but he has hemmed himself in with public expenditure | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
commitments that effectively take out of play three quarters of public | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
spending, and almost three quarters of tax as well, | :34:38. | :34:39. | |
so his room for fiscal manoeuvre is very small. | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
Added to that, he's got a fiscal rule which means at the moment | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
he is adjusting policy every few months according to the vagaries | :34:50. | :34:51. | |
That has now triggered a huge political row, when in fact | :34:52. | :35:00. | |
we are talking about relatively small economic numbers. | :35:01. | :35:10. | |
The Chancellor had done enough to save his budget, passed this | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
After all the climb-downs, his repetition, particularly among | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
those who would choose the next Conservative leader, | :35:17. | :35:18. | |
Joining me now to discuss where all this leaves the Chancellor | :35:19. | :35:29. | |
are the Guardian's Political Editor Anushka Asthana and the Times | :35:30. | :35:31. | |
George Osborne is gaining a reputation for having problematic | :35:32. | :35:47. | |
budgets. Tax credits, to the problem two weeks ago with pension reform... | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
Can he be taken credibly by the time of the next Budget? I think so | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
because he got us out of recession. And we have 2 million more people in | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
employment. No matter what he does? His long-term record is good. He | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
struggles with the budgets. It is when it comes to these intense | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
periods when he is trying to balance the books. That is an issue. And the | :36:12. | :36:18. | |
OBR's forecasts have been all over the place. Everybody has an issue | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
with it. This particular Budget, he has found it really difficult and | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
also the omnishambles Budget. But he has been in the Treasury for 11 | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
years for the Tories. And we will talk about whether that is too long | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
in a moment. What is your feeling about whether or not it does any | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
damage to him as a Chancellor. Because of the recovery really | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
anything can go, Alice says committee can be forgiven anything. | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
She mentioned the omnishambles Budget. We are looking for a word | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
for this one. The ultra shambles Budget, maybe. The Tory whips did a | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
good job to quarter make the backbenchers, to make sure they were | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
supporting George Osborne, give him a boost. But even some of them told | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
me that it is time to sell shares in George Osborne as a potential | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
leader, because you can get one but it wrong, you cannot get two wrong. | :37:13. | :37:19. | |
What about this idea by pushing disability cuts, and offering to | :37:20. | :37:30. | |
higher the tax for tax gains, but also the fact that he doesn't read | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
the mood any more? They said they would do it in the manifesto. It | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
isn't as if he had it away and pounced it on them. They knew it | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
would happen. But in terms of what the party needed, he didn't do that. | :37:44. | :37:50. | |
It is difficult. But one particular word, disability, a disadvantaged | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
group of people, they are vulnerable. It is a tough call. The | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
general public quite like the benefit cuts, but when it is | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
targeted to people who have disabilities. It suggests that he | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
has a tin ear. Different to Stephen Crabb. The Chancellor has wanted to | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
make an argument that he does care about the working poor and that it | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
is balanced. For Iain Duncan Smith to make that criticism was powerful. | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
It is unusual to see right-wing conservatives attacking a | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
Chancellor, who probably sees himself as quite liberal for his | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
austerity programme. Underneath all of this bubbling away, the issue of | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
Europe. That is the big dividing line in the party. What is he going | :38:36. | :38:43. | |
to do? I think he is waiting to see what will happen in November. It is | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
staggered. Each time he has a new set of figures. Maybe he doesn't | :38:49. | :38:55. | |
need one. Well, we don't know what will happen with the OBR. It is | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
difficult for him to decide what he needs to do now. I think he knew he | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
had to drop the PIP reforms. I think you knew they would be a disaster. I | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
think he would have had a problem. They will not pull back on the | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
welfare cap. They said they agree with the principle. What they are | :39:14. | :39:21. | |
playing with is the level. ?4.4 billion has gone out. They are | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
saying there are no plans for welfare cuts. We don't know if that | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
means this year, this Parliament, that's not clear, but they are not | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
going to reach that cap. He is hanging himself in a necessarily, | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
according to some. Some people were thinking, did we need this welfare | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
cap, did we need to put ourselves in this position in the first place? | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
George Osborne did well today. He got his party back onside. They were | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
all there against Labour. All being able to face their common enemy. | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
They will now wait until the Autumn Statement. It does feel like, we are | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
going to magic away the money when they re-forecast everything in the | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
autumn. Truth is, he was on track for a surplus. He doesn't actually | :40:07. | :40:14. | |
have to find the 4.4 billion. What is your political judgment? I think | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
it was a case more of him looking at what he could do, and how he could | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
organise a Budget. What is more deported for him at the moment is | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
Europe. -- more important. If we actually have Brexit then everything | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
changes. Absolutely. If there is a Brexit they are dead in the water. | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
Before that let's talk about after the election, he was offered the | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
Before that let's talk about after Foreign Office and he turned it | :40:45. | :40:45. | |
down, do you think that was a mistake? That is a difficult | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
decision to make. He has done this for 11 years which is a long time to | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
be spokesman of anything. Now he could possibly look at that. He | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
would be interesting doing it. Because he is a reformer. It would | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
be interesting to see what he does. Maybe he has left it too late. Maybe | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
now because of that he is toxic. I don't think so. I think he is one of | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
those people who come back each time. Every single time something | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
has gone wrong, he is good at coming back. It almost feels worse when | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
your -- when you are in the middle of the storm. You wade your way | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
through, and then you look back. Whether or not that happens, how do | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
you think his chances of leadership are now? Clearly diminished. You had | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
people who were supporting him and now think they are not convinced | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
George Osborne can do it. Alice was making the right point, people see | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
him as the person behind the economy, and they think the economy | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
won the Conservatives the last election. There is still a chance. | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
Even someone I know who support him a great deal is now saying, never | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
say never for George as leader. Not a ringing endorsement exactly. And | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
other people are coming to the fore as potential candidates. If the | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
result in the referendum is Remain, then his stock will rise again. I | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
think so, but I think David Cameron will stay on for another four years. | :42:19. | :42:21. | |
That gives him a long time in politics. Let's say if you were to | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
foreign affairs, or the Home Office, he would have a chance to show what | :42:27. | :42:29. | |
else he can do. And he could be formidable again. If it is a | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
convincing win for the Remain site, a lot of people have been saying | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
that a difficult situation would be a narrow win for Remain, where some | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
people in the party would feel they had been robbed. Thanks very much. | :42:47. | :42:54. | |
The Times has bloodbath in Brussels as their headline. Two of the three | :42:55. | :43:01. | |
suspected men involved are believed to be dead. Police are still looking | :43:02. | :43:08. | |
for the man in the hat. The men on the left are wearing gloves because | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
people think they were carrying detonators of the bombs that were | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
actually on their trolleys. The Guardian has a different picture. | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
What we feared has happened. At least 31 killed after terror attacks | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
ripped through Brussels. Again, the picture of the men with the two | :43:28. | :43:38. | |
gloved hands. And on the front of the Son, the same picture, with the | :43:39. | :43:50. | |
black gloves circled. -- the Sun. In the daily Mirror, bloodbath in | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
Brussels, CCTV catches airport bombers before attack. And the death | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
toll reaches 31. High alert, as Cameron says, it could happen here. | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
We leave you with some of the images captured today from those terrible | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
Good evening. It is a fairly quiet start to the day on Wednesday, with | :44:11. | :45:09. | |
a lot of cloud. It might produce the odd light shower | :45:10. | :45:10. |