21/04/2016 Newsnight


21/04/2016

With Emily Maitlis. What's Obama's foreign policy legacy? How did Prince change music? Has the Queen's popularity silenced republicans?


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President Obama lands in London, on the next leg of his foreign tour.

:00:00.:00:07.

But is anyone listening to a president with

:00:08.:00:09.

And will those who come after him cement the deals he's made

:00:10.:00:14.

As the race to replace him fast approaches, we ask our Atlantic

:00:15.:00:19.

facing guests what they think American foreign policy

:00:20.:00:21.

# This is what it sounds like when doves cry...

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We remember the artist now forever known as Prince.

:00:37.:00:41.

We'll be joined live by singer Mica Paris

:00:42.:00:47.

And, in her 90 years, has the Queen witnessed or even prompted the quiet

:00:48.:00:59.

death of the republican movement? Where are they now? Tony Blair

:01:00.:01:06.

expelled me from the Labour Party and she agreed to come and open City

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Hall. The Queen is above politics. President Obama has arrived at the

:01:10.:01:27.

US Embassy in London bringing the British leg of his foreign policy

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tour and a meeting with David Cameron. Don't be surprised if the

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air is frosty. This bilateral will mark the first full meeting between

:01:36.:01:40.

the two metres since Obama, in a candid interview, accused Cameron of

:01:41.:01:44.

failing to pull his weight in the Libyan crisis of 2011, words which

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may have gone deeper than publicly acknowledged. His expected

:01:50.:01:52.

intervention on Brexit may have soothed some quarters but the

:01:53.:01:58.

meeting is also expected to address Libya, counterterrorism and a future

:01:59.:02:03.

strategy to counter Isis, but could what is sealed to day be completely

:02:04.:02:09.

torn up in a post Obama world? Mark urban looks back at his foreign

:02:10.:02:13.

policy legacy and asks how much of it will stick.

:02:14.:02:22.

You would expect a president to rack up the air miles. Barack Obama is no

:02:23.:02:29.

exception. He is in Britain for the fifth time as president to talk

:02:30.:02:32.

about the challenges facing Europe and with time running out for him to

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add to his list of legacies. In the past hour, he landed at Stansted,

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flying in from Saudi Arabia, where he'd been discussing tackling the

:02:46.:02:51.

Islamic State group. One of those issues he could never having

:02:52.:02:56.

dissipated when elected. Barack Obama had all kinds of ideas of what

:02:57.:03:01.

he was going to do when he came into office, only to see the financial

:03:02.:03:06.

crisis develop, you know, literally during the transition. It was

:03:07.:03:13.

completely absorbing. George Bush thought he would have one kind of

:03:14.:03:18.

presidency and suddenly he had 9/11. The world has a way of confounding

:03:19.:03:22.

what every new president wishes to do. That battle taking US forces

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back into Iraq is just one area where events have conspired to

:03:30.:03:34.

frustrate the agenda he set out at the start of his presidency. The

:03:35.:03:43.

world, as Obama wanted to remake it, involved a pivot Asia, not just

:03:44.:03:48.

China but south-east Asia as well. That meant repositioning, diplomacy,

:03:49.:03:51.

trade and the military, away from the Middle East, a path that was to

:03:52.:03:56.

be smoothed by winding down the war in Iraq and we setting the

:03:57.:04:01.

relationship in Iran. There was to be less Europe as well. A military

:04:02.:04:06.

drawdown and another reset, this time with Russia, to soothe

:04:07.:04:11.

remaining tensions. That isn't how it turned out. Only some of these

:04:12.:04:16.

aspirations proved realistic. We will give him credit for a number of

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things, although they are unfinished business, for example, the Iran

:04:22.:04:26.

deal, getting the millstone of an unsustainable Cuba policy of our

:04:27.:04:35.

neck, making a pre-deal with China on climate before the Paris climate

:04:36.:04:42.

summit. Those are some of the high points. How did Obama's world

:04:43.:04:47.

actually turn out? A list of presidential trips still shows

:04:48.:04:51.

Europe way out front. His most visited country, whisper it in

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Whitehall, has been France. But the UK and Germany also figure highly.

:04:57.:05:03.

Today, US troops are going back into Europe at Russia reset failed, and

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back into Iraq as well. Much the same has happened in Afghanistan,

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visited four times, while China has figured just twice, with a third

:05:16.:05:20.

trip planned. There has been the nuclear deal with Iran and, late in

:05:21.:05:27.

his term, Cuba has been written in as a dark horse diplomatic coup. But

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even these achievements could be rehearsed and, indeed, a hostile

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Congress and presidential challenger have said they will do just that. We

:05:37.:05:41.

will totally dismantle Iran's global terror network, which is big and

:05:42.:05:52.

powerful but not powerful like us. Perhaps the greatest challenge for

:05:53.:05:55.

President Obama has been a custom in Americans to the limits of their

:05:56.:06:00.

country's power, when so much of their political discourse emphasises

:06:01.:06:04.

its greatness. These are not things that are easily accepted by a large

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nation with a very rich history, particularly the history of the

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post-war period. And, you know, it is tough, too, against the backdrop

:06:19.:06:22.

of American partisan divides right now, where one side of the aisle is

:06:23.:06:30.

defining greatness in largely military terms. President Obama has

:06:31.:06:34.

acknowledged his foreign policy is a work in progress and much will

:06:35.:06:39.

depend on his successor. Given the possible choice between Trump and

:06:40.:06:42.

Clinton, the question of how much of a legacy would remain would not be

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much darker. Joining us now, Bruce Jentleson,

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who worked at the State Department under Hillary Clinton and is now

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Henry Kissinger Chair in Foreign Policy at the Library

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of Congress, and David Graham, who covers the US election

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and global news for the Atlantic. Welcome. Thank you. It was

:06:55.:07:05.

interesting hearing Mark calling this a work in progress. Bruce

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Jentleson, how different do you think American foreign policy would

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look under a Clinton presidency? There would be elements, a fair

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amount of continuity, and there would be some change. When Hillary

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Clinton was secretary of state for President Obama, they worked

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together and agreed on any number of issues, and there have been some on

:07:29.:07:32.

which they disagreed. Let me use Syria as an example. In late 2012

:07:33.:07:38.

after the presidential election, Secretary Clinton was among those

:07:39.:07:42.

pushing for the United States to establish a safe haven and a no-fly

:07:43.:07:46.

zone, to give more aid to the opposition, while at the same time

:07:47.:07:52.

pursuing aggressive diplomacy. That remains her position. President

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Obama has chosen not to do that. In some respects, I think she would be

:07:57.:07:59.

looking for a different balance point between the use of force and

:08:00.:08:04.

diplomacy. That is one issue that illustrate it. Let me make you more

:08:05.:08:09.

candid. When you are looking at something like Mosul under Isis,

:08:10.:08:14.

Libya, the next one on the map, are you saying basically she would go in

:08:15.:08:20.

way he would fear to tread? Not at all. This isn't about mass American

:08:21.:08:24.

ground troops like George Bush in Iraq. It is a question of how you

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mount a course of diplomacy strategy, in which you raise the

:08:30.:08:35.

pressure in Syria on Assad, and to a certain extent on the Russians, to

:08:36.:08:38.

try and come to the table with them and get a political transition.

:08:39.:08:42.

There is no way there is a military solution to Syria but a bit more

:08:43.:08:47.

coercion can help. How successful do you think Obama has been with his

:08:48.:08:51.

relationships and where is there room for improvement in terms of

:08:52.:08:55.

what comes next? I think it varies a lot from region to region. His

:08:56.:09:00.

relationship with Israel has not been as strong as some craziness --

:09:01.:09:05.

some previous presidents. Many will tell you that is positive, others

:09:06.:09:10.

will say it is negative. Use the ups and downs with David Cameron, with

:09:11.:09:14.

Angela Merkel with surveillance issues. And you see some bright

:09:15.:09:19.

spots, improvement with Iran, opening to Cuba, so across the globe

:09:20.:09:23.

you get a real range of stronger and weaker positions. If we are not

:09:24.:09:28.

talking about a Clinton presidency, let's say, about a Trump or a Cruz

:09:29.:09:34.

presidency, how much of this would stick Mr Mock would we see the Iran

:09:35.:09:39.

deal torn up all the Cuba bingo? Is this primary talk? With Donald

:09:40.:09:46.

Trump, it is clear we would be seeing something different, but what

:09:47.:09:50.

exactly is a bit unclear, because he speaks in such generalities. He says

:09:51.:09:55.

for example that he would not care up the Iran deal but he would

:09:56.:09:59.

renegotiate it. What exactly that means it's hard to tell. We know he

:10:00.:10:05.

would take a hard line with China. He seems to want to have a close

:10:06.:10:09.

relationship with Russia. But he speaks with so few details it is

:10:10.:10:13.

hard to tell exactly what the pivot away from Obama would be. Do you see

:10:14.:10:19.

a Republican presidency as being more isolationist than a democratic

:10:20.:10:25.

one? I think it is worse than that. It isn't isolationism if the United

:10:26.:10:32.

States comes home. It is bullying. Build a wall and make Mexico pay,

:10:33.:10:37.

but 45 increase on imports from China... Do you really believe that

:10:38.:10:45.

rhetoric in your heart? That is what he said and we can only go on that.

:10:46.:10:49.

It has been sufficiently credible that over 120 Republican foreign

:10:50.:10:54.

policy professionals said they would work for him. He might try and

:10:55.:10:58.

strike various deals as he tries to go to the election, but that is his

:10:59.:11:02.

attitude. Fundamentally, it is his temperament. There is a ready, fire,

:11:03.:11:10.

aim to Trump but I think would be very dangerous on almost any foreign

:11:11.:11:13.

policy issue. Where'd you think the European relationships would go?

:11:14.:11:20.

Obama seems to like France more than the UK, perhaps. Do you think there

:11:21.:11:24.

is work to do in repairing the relationship with Cameron, and do

:11:25.:11:28.

you think that Hillary Clinton would be interested in putting Europe

:11:29.:11:34.

higher up the priority list? My sense is that she would like to

:11:35.:11:36.

repair those relationships. The Russian ship may be a bit stronger

:11:37.:11:46.

during his first term, which she was running the state department. -- the

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relationship. Obama has this deep scepticism of what the US can do,

:11:50.:11:53.

and I think you see less of that with Clinton, so you might see a

:11:54.:11:55.

different engagement with the world. "Dearly beloved, we are gathered

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here today to get through this The lyrics of Prince's Let's Go

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Crazy have bolted back into the music world's collective

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consciousness tonight after his death was

:12:06.:12:08.

announced at the age of 57. He became one of the most

:12:09.:12:11.

pioneering, popular, inimitable voices of the '80s

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and '90s and beyond. His music could be haunting,

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his stage presence He redefined gender

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and his own identity, most notably changing his name

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to a symbol to remove himself from contractual obligations

:12:25.:12:27.

with his record label. Put aside, for a moment,

:12:28.:12:31.

your concerns about what on earth is happening to our artists

:12:32.:12:33.

in the year 2016 and remember just There was Elvis in his jumpsuit,

:12:34.:13:03.

James brown in a cape, but nobody looked, sounded or, dare I say,

:13:04.:13:09.

smells more like a rock star than Prince. You would call him Snape

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kept that he would probably save that made him sad fact.

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# She's never satisfied # Why do we scream at each other?

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# This is what it sounds like when doves cry...

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He sold 100 million records, he won seven Grammys and an Oscar, and he

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went through names rapidly, jettisoning them when they didn't

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suit him any more. # You've got the butterflies... Most

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people don't get famous with one name and then change it. What is the

:13:57.:14:04.

story? Well, I had to search deep within my heart and spirit and I

:14:05.:14:10.

wanted to make a change and move to a new plateau in my life, and one of

:14:11.:14:14.

the ways I did that was to change my name. It sort of divorced me from

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the past and all the hang-ups that go with it.

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# I only want to see you laughing in the purple rain

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# Purple rain, purple rain # Purple rain... Prince, or whatever

:14:35.:14:41.

alias he happened to be serving under, right, he could he could

:14:42.:14:50.

play. -- he could write, he could sing, he could play. An older

:14:51.:14:53.

generation of tax legends took notice. At a time when I thought

:14:54.:14:58.

that rock and roll was dead and then I went to see Purple Rain and that

:14:59.:15:04.

was it. It is a reincarnation of Little Richard and Jimi Hendrix in

:15:05.:15:07.

one and I thought it was what the world needed. Controversial, but I

:15:08.:15:11.

love him dearly and I think he is a genius.

:15:12.:15:18.

Is that Britain's?! Reckon executives might not agree but

:15:19.:15:28.

Prince was a total pro. Loose Women was never like this. Giving away

:15:29.:15:34.

free tickets on a chat show. I love you, Prince! I love you back. You

:15:35.:15:41.

are going to be at Madison Square Garden? We're doing a wonderful

:15:42.:15:46.

series of concerts with an array of special guests and a bands that

:15:47.:15:49.

played like a jackhammer. You have to come and check it out. And what

:15:50.:16:04.

about this for a work ethic? # Oh, no, let's go. The only time it is of

:16:05.:16:07.

a half-time in the Super Bowl and the smallest guy on the field is the

:16:08.:16:16.

most valuable player. -- it has ever arraigned at

:16:17.:16:25.

half-time in the Super Bowl. # You don't have to be beautiful...

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To the premature end, he was always writing, playing impromptu

:16:34.:16:35.

performances and a long run of dates in London.

:16:36.:16:48.

# 2000, party over, out of time. For better or worse, the star who had

:16:49.:16:56.

its oil -- had it all, even point his own epitaph, the artist formerly

:16:57.:17:01.

known as Prince. Steve Smith, remembering Prince. And joining us

:17:02.:17:03.

now: and Oscar-winning director Steve

:17:04.:17:08.

McQueen. Mica, you shared a manager with

:17:09.:17:18.

Prince. Tell us the story of how you first met him. It is very strange. I

:17:19.:17:22.

was a huge fan and I was given a golden ticket for a private show at

:17:23.:17:27.

the Camden Palace. Everybody was there. I was 18, standing in the

:17:28.:17:32.

audience, looking at my hero and thinking, I cannot believe I am

:17:33.:17:35.

actually watching him. And he called out and said, I think your name is

:17:36.:17:43.

Mica, Singh. I was just blown away. He gave me the mike and I just

:17:44.:17:51.

started singing ust My Imagination by the Temptations. I have lived it,

:17:52.:17:55.

because I was terrified. He was very instinctive. And then he called me

:17:56.:18:04.

up and asked me to come to Minneapolis, to Paisley Park, and he

:18:05.:18:10.

wrote a song for my next album. So you literally sang from the

:18:11.:18:15.

audience? How old were you? 18. And the next thing you knew, he was

:18:16.:18:20.

writing songs with you and for you? For the second album, yes. It was

:18:21.:18:24.

amazing. It was shocking for me at the time, obviously. But it was

:18:25.:18:30.

surreal. Because he was like that. If you liked you, he would find a

:18:31.:18:35.

way to contact you and work with you. Because that is what he is

:18:36.:18:40.

like. He knows what he likes. Steve McQueen, what was it for you, the

:18:41.:18:48.

pool of Prince? What was it that drew you in? It was the freedom.

:18:49.:18:53.

There was a black artist totally and utterly free. And inclusive. He

:18:54.:18:58.

wrote, produced, arranged, played all the instruments. And he was sexy

:18:59.:19:05.

and religious and free in every single aspect of his life. And he

:19:06.:19:13.

portrayed what he did in such style, and with such funk, you had to go

:19:14.:19:17.

along with Prince. Prince was Prince, there is only one Prince.

:19:18.:19:22.

You wanted to make a film with him, or about him. What did you want to

:19:23.:19:31.

say? The camera would have been shaking if I was making a movie with

:19:32.:19:36.

Prince. I met him after I won the Oscar and we talked. He was just

:19:37.:19:41.

extraordinary, a very generous person. He took off his shades and

:19:42.:19:44.

met my mother and I thanked him for what he had done for black artists,

:19:45.:19:50.

and black people, because he was just a megastar. He was the best,

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there was no one who could touch a guitar, dancing, writing, singing.

:19:55.:20:02.

Who has all of those talents, all of those gifts? Helped me to unpick

:20:03.:20:07.

that. I would come back to you, Mica, with the same question in a

:20:08.:20:12.

minute, but when you say, Steve, all he did for black artists, what did

:20:13.:20:16.

he do for black artists? What did he give them? I would not say black

:20:17.:20:24.

artists, I would say young black people, for them it was the first

:20:25.:20:32.

time the shackles of an industry... I mean, he was free. To put out an

:20:33.:20:37.

album every year, to tour when he wanted, to do and aftershow, this is

:20:38.:20:45.

a real artist, with no boundaries. And I think that... I mean, he is so

:20:46.:20:50.

influential. Look at all the albums that came out in the 80s and all the

:20:51.:20:53.

people who copied Tim, from George Michael and so on. The 80s and

:20:54.:21:00.

beyond. Everyone copied Prince. Because he was the way. Mica, did he

:21:01.:21:07.

feel like that, did he see himself in that way or did he see himself as

:21:08.:21:12.

a man constantly struggling to change or Dumora? I never got that

:21:13.:21:20.

from him. -- change or do more. What I got was he was music. He lived it,

:21:21.:21:24.

breathe that, every aspect of him was music. I mean, I would be in the

:21:25.:21:30.

studio with him and it would be like until six or 7:00am, he was still

:21:31.:21:35.

going, like it was the daytime. He was a workaholic, it was all about

:21:36.:21:40.

music. And he worked incredibly fast. Some of the songs, they are

:21:41.:21:44.

alleged to have been written in ten minutes. Yes. And loads of them as

:21:45.:21:50.

well. I remember him telling me that he has bolts of songs that go on and

:21:51.:21:58.

on. -- vaults. Constantly working time. Amazing. Steve, do you think

:21:59.:22:04.

there is untapped music that we are only just coming to? Is there a lot

:22:05.:22:10.

of stuff that did not see the light? I don't know about that. All I want

:22:11.:22:17.

to say is that what he did, in his unfortunately short lifetime, it is

:22:18.:22:20.

just incredible. There is enough music that he has produced for three

:22:21.:22:27.

or four lifetimes. He has done so much musically. It is just

:22:28.:22:32.

incredible. He moved into movies, of course. What do you think his

:22:33.:22:37.

influence was there? It is not everyone who can make that

:22:38.:22:45.

crossover. Well, I think Spike Lee said it best, at that time, when he

:22:46.:22:51.

did Purple Rain, that was hugely influential, as a black artist,

:22:52.:22:56.

having a movie about himself, which he produced, and he was financially

:22:57.:23:02.

involved in and it was a hit, it was unprecedented. What was it, 1984,

:23:03.:23:09.

85? I think it was 1984. Amazing. And he directed the second one,

:23:10.:23:16.

Under The Cherry Moon. I mean, he was a pioneer. It is as simple as

:23:17.:23:24.

that. And he was such a contradiction of figures. He was

:23:25.:23:28.

someone who felt deeply religious but deeply sexual onstage as well

:23:29.:23:34.

and outwardly sexual. Yes, when I got into Prince, before I met him,

:23:35.:23:38.

what happened was I had his album and he had suspenders on. And I come

:23:39.:23:44.

from the church, so I used to have to hide the album in the house from

:23:45.:23:47.

my grandparents, who were ministers, because everyone was saying, you

:23:48.:23:52.

cannot have that, that is wrong. And it did not matter that he had

:23:53.:23:55.

suspenders on because when you heard that funky beat, I mean, it was just

:23:56.:24:03.

shocking. The way he fused all of those styles as well, you have to

:24:04.:24:08.

remember the fused funk, soul, jazz, classical, and then he mixed it with

:24:09.:24:13.

technology, the way he was so ahead with technology as well, he was

:24:14.:24:18.

definitely an enigma. The news today has come... I was quite sad,

:24:19.:24:27.

actually, before I came on the programme but hearing Mica talk

:24:28.:24:29.

about Prince and human memories, there is so much joy, there is so

:24:30.:24:37.

much to what he did, the artistry, it is pretty incredible when you

:24:38.:24:42.

think back. What's Mica was saying, it gives me lots of warmth in my

:24:43.:24:47.

chest. I was feeling sad before I came on and now I think, he knocked

:24:48.:24:53.

the ball way out of the park. Was there a moment where you remember

:24:54.:24:57.

thinking, this man is changing my life, this man is going to have a

:24:58.:25:01.

profound effect on who I am from now on? I mean, this guy came out with

:25:02.:25:09.

an album every year. It was just incredible. I remember my friend

:25:10.:25:18.

Mark gave me, what was it, excuse me, what was the album? I am losing

:25:19.:25:23.

my train of thought. I was listening to this album and every track was

:25:24.:25:28.

revolutionary. If I was your girlfriend, hello?! Speeding up the

:25:29.:25:38.

vocals. Whole idea of him being male, female, inclusive, black,

:25:39.:25:46.

white, number one, Prince. No one could touch him. I think the best

:25:47.:25:59.

one was Sign o' the Times, because it was sparse, and the message was

:26:00.:26:07.

so powerful. That was the one! For me, that was the pinnacle. We have

:26:08.:26:13.

only just begun the reliving. Before we go, Sign o' the Times, you were

:26:14.:26:17.

one of the few who spotted some of the warning signs over the last

:26:18.:26:21.

year, but maybe all was not well with his health. I saw him last year

:26:22.:26:30.

and I thought he was a bit thin, that was the only thing I thought.

:26:31.:26:33.

He was the slimmest I have seen him in all the years I have known him

:26:34.:26:37.

and it was something I thought he looked a bit thin but I think he

:26:38.:26:41.

worked so hard. This is a guy who was constantly touring, constantly

:26:42.:26:47.

working and hardly slept. He loved his job. Great to have you both. I

:26:48.:26:50.

appreciate you joining us tonight. As beacons blaze across the country

:26:51.:26:53.

this evening to mark the Queen's 90th birthday,

:26:54.:26:56.

she enjoys what feels like unclouded popularity,

:26:57.:26:59.

garnering respect even from those who don't see themselves as dyed

:27:00.:27:01.

in the wool monarchists. So has she properly seen off

:27:02.:27:07.

the Republican movement in On double time tonight,

:27:08.:27:10.

here's Stephen Smith again. You could be forgiven for thinking

:27:11.:27:19.

that Republicans hadn't taken such a pasting since their battles

:27:20.:27:22.

with the Royalists Today, though, the sovereign

:27:23.:27:25.

reigns unchallenged, enjoying a popularity to make other

:27:26.:27:35.

establishment figures Will you be stocking this with

:27:36.:27:52.

newts? The newts are in there already. I had two badgers

:27:53.:28:02.

frogspawn. -- two batches of frogspawn.

:28:03.:28:04.

Labour's Ken Livingstone pours his energy into

:28:05.:28:05.

But didn't he once hoped to live a bit like the French

:28:06.:28:10.

Do you still describe yourself as a Republican?

:28:11.:28:16.

Yes, theoretically, but I don't think it will be an issue

:28:17.:28:19.

I don't think it will arise because if you say we're

:28:20.:28:27.

going to get rid of the monarchy, then who are you going to have?

:28:28.:28:30.

I don't think we want to move to a presidential system

:28:31.:28:33.

like America, we want to keep a prime ministerial one.

:28:34.:28:35.

So you would need a head of state, largely ceremonial,

:28:36.:28:38.

and people don't want some clapped-out old politician.

:28:39.:28:41.

What you might get is celebrities running for it,

:28:42.:28:45.

I was really struck because when Mrs Thatcher

:28:46.:28:53.

was abolishing the TLC, the Queen agreed to come and open

:28:54.:28:55.

And then when Tony Blair had expelled me from the Labour Party,

:28:56.:29:05.

she agreed to come to open City Hall on the very day he was

:29:06.:29:08.

I think the Queen is just above politics, and politicians come

:29:09.:29:17.

and go, and she is there to serve the people.

:29:18.:29:20.

Has the bell tolled for a British Republic?

:29:21.:29:33.

But what about after the Queen's reign?

:29:34.:29:36.

A recent hit play, King Charles III, imagines rocky times

:29:37.:29:39.

And some Republicans see it that way, too.

:29:40.:29:50.

Republicanism used to be the R-word that could not be mentioned,

:29:51.:29:54.

it could not be talked about, right up until 15 years ago.

:29:55.:30:01.

Now it's quite acceptable to talk about it, think about it,

:30:02.:30:04.

And I think that is what has happened, but of course the Queen,

:30:05.:30:09.

because of her world celebrity status, really,

:30:10.:30:13.

she is a celebrity rather than anything else,

:30:14.:30:19.

while she's there, the political class in this country, in my view,

:30:20.:30:21.

In a room over a pub in Birmingham, members of the pressure group

:30:22.:30:37.

Republic look forward to what they hope will be

:30:38.:30:39.

They claim to have 5000 members and many more sympathisers.

:30:40.:30:53.

Graeme Smith is Republic's full-time salaried CEO.

:30:54.:30:58.

If it is not her, if it is not the Royals, then we get

:30:59.:31:02.

President Blair or President Stephen Fry.

:31:03.:31:07.

You never would, the point is, well, you would get someone

:31:08.:31:09.

who is quite serious and ultimately has been chosen by the people,

:31:10.:31:14.

so it is going to be someone that is going to have that kind

:31:15.:31:18.

Sorry to interrupt you, but it seems we are about to name

:31:19.:31:30.

a research vessel Boaty McBoatface, so are you sure you have

:31:31.:31:33.

that much confidence in your fellow citizens?

:31:34.:31:35.

The point is, we are about to elect a new Mayor of London and we have

:31:36.:31:39.

elected governments of different stripes across the country

:31:40.:31:41.

in Scotland, England and Wales and so on.

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If you look at the Republic of Ireland, they directly

:31:44.:31:45.

elect their head of state, who has a very similar

:31:46.:31:49.

They are accountable and certainly in the last decade and a half

:31:50.:31:53.

they have enjoyed levels of popularity equal to that

:31:54.:31:55.

The Queen has been quite clever in not being ostentatiously wealthy.

:31:56.:32:04.

The next couple of generations are much more open about going

:32:05.:32:07.

on holiday all the time and all that kind of thing.

:32:08.:32:11.

And I think what is going to happen is it is going to be evident how out

:32:12.:32:15.

We are not all in this together if you happen to be a Windsor.

:32:16.:32:23.

If that has doused the Royal braziers a little, Tracey Emin,

:32:24.:32:26.

who met the Queen at the Turner Contemporary Gallery

:32:27.:32:28.

in Margate, says she is a convert to monarchism.

:32:29.:32:32.

When I was younger, I did not feel for the Royal family

:32:33.:32:35.

And then, when I was about 20, in my 20s, I saw a royal procession

:32:36.:32:43.

coming from Victoria Station and I had to get off

:32:44.:32:46.

the bus and stand and wait, and then when the Queen went past

:32:47.:32:49.

in her golden coach, my hand went up and I just

:32:50.:32:53.

started waving and cheering like everybody else.

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I am going to do the right thing, I thought, I am going to make

:32:58.:33:05.

Her Majesty a very nice birthday card and send it.

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Yesterday, this woman was elected as the first black female president of

:33:22.:33:27.

the NUS. Her election has sparked controversy as she has been accused

:33:28.:33:34.

of anti-Semitic remarks, including -- including Colin Bernd Neumann

:33:35.:33:37.

university as I missed out let. She says her comments have been

:33:38.:33:43.

mis-represented, she isn't racist, and she emphasises the difference

:33:44.:33:47.

between being anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic. She has been accused

:33:48.:33:50.

of not supporting a motion condemning the so-called Islamic

:33:51.:33:55.

State, but the NUS says this is because she disputed the wording of

:33:56.:34:00.

the motion, not the principle. But students from at least seven

:34:01.:34:02.

universities of voting to disassociate from the NUS. Harry

:34:03.:34:09.

Samuels, an Oxford NUS delegate who wants to disassociate, joined us.

:34:10.:34:14.

You are campaigning to disassociate your university, Oxford, from the

:34:15.:34:19.

NUS. Yes, we disagree with the direction of the NUS. My delegation

:34:20.:34:24.

was elected on a reformist slate and we went to the conference over the

:34:25.:34:29.

last few days to see what it was like, to try and put forward some

:34:30.:34:32.

reformist emotions and to see if there was any way to change the NUS

:34:33.:34:38.

for the better. This is about the NUS or her in particular? Not hurt

:34:39.:34:44.

in particular. Her election enshrined the fact that the NUS no

:34:45.:34:49.

longer represent all students and there are other grievances we have

:34:50.:34:53.

lived with the rest of the organisation, and it is the mixture

:34:54.:34:56.

of those reasons and the culmination that we saw in this conference is

:34:57.:35:03.

why we are campaigning to leave. Looking in, she won it, she got the

:35:04.:35:08.

mandate, more than 50% of the vote, and that is how democracy works. Are

:35:09.:35:13.

you saying, we just don't want that any more, we don't buy into it, or

:35:14.:35:18.

are you saying the NUS doesn't account for at least seven of these

:35:19.:35:25.

universities? I would dispute that she was elected democratically. The

:35:26.:35:27.

only people allowed to vote for the NUS president of the senior

:35:28.:35:34.

delegates. She was elected with I think 372 votes, so 372 people out

:35:35.:35:40.

of 7 million students represented by the NUS voted for her. That isn't a

:35:41.:35:46.

mandate. It is still the process by which the NUS elects its presidents,

:35:47.:35:52.

and she won it. She did, and we are saying that we disagree with that

:35:53.:35:56.

process and we want the elections for the people who represent the

:35:57.:36:00.

entire student body to be opened up to all students. There was a motion

:36:01.:36:05.

on that today which was one member, one vote, and that was defeated. You

:36:06.:36:10.

want to pull yourself away from the NUS for good. What happens when they

:36:11.:36:14.

get their next president and it is somebody that you agree with? Do you

:36:15.:36:21.

opt back in? No, we need to make this clear. We are not seeking to

:36:22.:36:26.

disaffiliate simply because we disagree with this particular

:36:27.:36:29.

president. For the last few years, we have seen an increasing level of

:36:30.:36:34.

things we disagree with, increasing evidence that the organisation can

:36:35.:36:37.

no longer be reformed, and it is the election of this president that is

:36:38.:36:42.

the straw that broke the camel's back. Why do you think there is this

:36:43.:36:48.

shift? A variety of reasons. A lot has to do with the fact that the NUS

:36:49.:36:54.

fails to engage with the student it seeks to represent. In my election,

:36:55.:37:00.

as I was elected as a delegate, only 14% of people eligible to vote in

:37:01.:37:04.

Oxford turned out to vote for me. It is similar across the country. The

:37:05.:37:10.

NUS fails to engage with people, it fails to go beyond the cliques that

:37:11.:37:15.

remit, and we think it should be a broad organisation, an organisation

:37:16.:37:18.

representing all students. We have tried to reform it but they are

:37:19.:37:21.

simply not able to be reformed any more. The NUS knows it has got a

:37:22.:37:26.

right of reply and we are happy to speak to them about this and other

:37:27.:37:32.

issues. Thank you for coming on. Let me take you through the papers. That

:37:33.:37:37.

story is the top of the Times, Oxford threatens to dump student

:37:38.:37:42.

union in anti-Semitism row. The topline alongside that picture of

:37:43.:37:48.

Prince is from Obama, an opinion piece he has written for the Times.

:37:49.:37:54.

The topline is, don't turn away from the EU, Obama tells Britain, anger

:37:55.:37:59.

over President's intervention no doubt will come. The Independent as

:38:00.:38:04.

this silhouette, the black and white Prince with the dates, no words. The

:38:05.:38:12.

Sun has, the Purple Rain is over. Prince dies on Queen's birthday.

:38:13.:38:16.

Something that is hard to miss. The Daily Mail has got the Queen herself

:38:17.:38:23.

with a birthday smile saying, she is loving every -- she is loving every

:38:24.:38:25.

minute. Two years ago we paid our own

:38:26.:38:27.

tribute to the artist formerly known as Prince when he played a gig

:38:28.:38:30.

at Ronnie Scott's nightclub in Soho Newsnight went down to the very long

:38:31.:38:33.

ticket queue to see what a hardcore I'm not doing it. No, it's cool.

:38:34.:39:04.

# I only wanted to be some kind of friend...

:39:05.:39:10.

# Baby, I could never steal you from another

:39:11.:39:17.

# It's such a shame our friendship had to end

:39:18.:39:27.

# Purple rain, purple rain # Purple rain, purple rain I've got

:39:28.:39:36.

a dodgy throat. # Purple rain, purple rain. Purple

:39:37.:39:44.

rain, purple rain. It was a bit less predictable. No.

:39:45.:39:53.

# I only want to see you laughing in the purple rain.

:39:54.:39:57.

Some of us have had lovely print -- spring sunshine and warmth recently

:39:58.:40:10.

but things are set to

:40:11.:40:12.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis.

What's Obama's foreign policy legacy? How did Prince change music? Has the Queen's popularity silenced republicans?


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