21/04/2016 Newsnight


With Emily Maitlis. What's Obama's foreign policy legacy? How did Prince change music? Has the Queen's popularity silenced republicans?

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President Obama lands in London, on the next leg of his foreign tour.


But is anyone listening to a president with


And will those who come after him cement the deals he's made


As the race to replace him fast approaches, we ask our Atlantic


facing guests what they think American foreign policy


# This is what it sounds like when doves cry...


We remember the artist now forever known as Prince.


We'll be joined live by singer Mica Paris


And, in her 90 years, has the Queen witnessed or even prompted the quiet


death of the republican movement? Where are they now? Tony Blair


expelled me from the Labour Party and she agreed to come and open City


Hall. The Queen is above politics. President Obama has arrived at the


US Embassy in London bringing the British leg of his foreign policy


tour and a meeting with David Cameron. Don't be surprised if the


air is frosty. This bilateral will mark the first full meeting between


the two metres since Obama, in a candid interview, accused Cameron of


failing to pull his weight in the Libyan crisis of 2011, words which


may have gone deeper than publicly acknowledged. His expected


intervention on Brexit may have soothed some quarters but the


meeting is also expected to address Libya, counterterrorism and a future


strategy to counter Isis, but could what is sealed to day be completely


torn up in a post Obama world? Mark urban looks back at his foreign


policy legacy and asks how much of it will stick.


You would expect a president to rack up the air miles. Barack Obama is no


exception. He is in Britain for the fifth time as president to talk


about the challenges facing Europe and with time running out for him to


add to his list of legacies. In the past hour, he landed at Stansted,


flying in from Saudi Arabia, where he'd been discussing tackling the


Islamic State group. One of those issues he could never having


dissipated when elected. Barack Obama had all kinds of ideas of what


he was going to do when he came into office, only to see the financial


crisis develop, you know, literally during the transition. It was


completely absorbing. George Bush thought he would have one kind of


presidency and suddenly he had 9/11. The world has a way of confounding


what every new president wishes to do. That battle taking US forces


back into Iraq is just one area where events have conspired to


frustrate the agenda he set out at the start of his presidency. The


world, as Obama wanted to remake it, involved a pivot Asia, not just


China but south-east Asia as well. That meant repositioning, diplomacy,


trade and the military, away from the Middle East, a path that was to


be smoothed by winding down the war in Iraq and we setting the


relationship in Iran. There was to be less Europe as well. A military


drawdown and another reset, this time with Russia, to soothe


remaining tensions. That isn't how it turned out. Only some of these


aspirations proved realistic. We will give him credit for a number of


things, although they are unfinished business, for example, the Iran


deal, getting the millstone of an unsustainable Cuba policy of our


neck, making a pre-deal with China on climate before the Paris climate


summit. Those are some of the high points. How did Obama's world


actually turn out? A list of presidential trips still shows


Europe way out front. His most visited country, whisper it in


Whitehall, has been France. But the UK and Germany also figure highly.


Today, US troops are going back into Europe at Russia reset failed, and


back into Iraq as well. Much the same has happened in Afghanistan,


visited four times, while China has figured just twice, with a third


trip planned. There has been the nuclear deal with Iran and, late in


his term, Cuba has been written in as a dark horse diplomatic coup. But


even these achievements could be rehearsed and, indeed, a hostile


Congress and presidential challenger have said they will do just that. We


will totally dismantle Iran's global terror network, which is big and


powerful but not powerful like us. Perhaps the greatest challenge for


President Obama has been a custom in Americans to the limits of their


country's power, when so much of their political discourse emphasises


its greatness. These are not things that are easily accepted by a large


nation with a very rich history, particularly the history of the


post-war period. And, you know, it is tough, too, against the backdrop


of American partisan divides right now, where one side of the aisle is


defining greatness in largely military terms. President Obama has


acknowledged his foreign policy is a work in progress and much will


depend on his successor. Given the possible choice between Trump and


Clinton, the question of how much of a legacy would remain would not be


much darker. Joining us now, Bruce Jentleson,


who worked at the State Department under Hillary Clinton and is now


Henry Kissinger Chair in Foreign Policy at the Library


of Congress, and David Graham, who covers the US election


and global news for the Atlantic. Welcome. Thank you. It was


interesting hearing Mark calling this a work in progress. Bruce


Jentleson, how different do you think American foreign policy would


look under a Clinton presidency? There would be elements, a fair


amount of continuity, and there would be some change. When Hillary


Clinton was secretary of state for President Obama, they worked


together and agreed on any number of issues, and there have been some on


which they disagreed. Let me use Syria as an example. In late 2012


after the presidential election, Secretary Clinton was among those


pushing for the United States to establish a safe haven and a no-fly


zone, to give more aid to the opposition, while at the same time


pursuing aggressive diplomacy. That remains her position. President


Obama has chosen not to do that. In some respects, I think she would be


looking for a different balance point between the use of force and


diplomacy. That is one issue that illustrate it. Let me make you more


candid. When you are looking at something like Mosul under Isis,


Libya, the next one on the map, are you saying basically she would go in


way he would fear to tread? Not at all. This isn't about mass American


ground troops like George Bush in Iraq. It is a question of how you


mount a course of diplomacy strategy, in which you raise the


pressure in Syria on Assad, and to a certain extent on the Russians, to


try and come to the table with them and get a political transition.


There is no way there is a military solution to Syria but a bit more


coercion can help. How successful do you think Obama has been with his


relationships and where is there room for improvement in terms of


what comes next? I think it varies a lot from region to region. His


relationship with Israel has not been as strong as some craziness --


some previous presidents. Many will tell you that is positive, others


will say it is negative. Use the ups and downs with David Cameron, with


Angela Merkel with surveillance issues. And you see some bright


spots, improvement with Iran, opening to Cuba, so across the globe


you get a real range of stronger and weaker positions. If we are not


talking about a Clinton presidency, let's say, about a Trump or a Cruz


presidency, how much of this would stick Mr Mock would we see the Iran


deal torn up all the Cuba bingo? Is this primary talk? With Donald


Trump, it is clear we would be seeing something different, but what


exactly is a bit unclear, because he speaks in such generalities. He says


for example that he would not care up the Iran deal but he would


renegotiate it. What exactly that means it's hard to tell. We know he


would take a hard line with China. He seems to want to have a close


relationship with Russia. But he speaks with so few details it is


hard to tell exactly what the pivot away from Obama would be. Do you see


a Republican presidency as being more isolationist than a democratic


one? I think it is worse than that. It isn't isolationism if the United


States comes home. It is bullying. Build a wall and make Mexico pay,


but 45 increase on imports from China... Do you really believe that


rhetoric in your heart? That is what he said and we can only go on that.


It has been sufficiently credible that over 120 Republican foreign


policy professionals said they would work for him. He might try and


strike various deals as he tries to go to the election, but that is his


attitude. Fundamentally, it is his temperament. There is a ready, fire,


aim to Trump but I think would be very dangerous on almost any foreign


policy issue. Where'd you think the European relationships would go?


Obama seems to like France more than the UK, perhaps. Do you think there


is work to do in repairing the relationship with Cameron, and do


you think that Hillary Clinton would be interested in putting Europe


higher up the priority list? My sense is that she would like to


repair those relationships. The Russian ship may be a bit stronger


during his first term, which she was running the state department. -- the


relationship. Obama has this deep scepticism of what the US can do,


and I think you see less of that with Clinton, so you might see a


different engagement with the world. "Dearly beloved, we are gathered


here today to get through this The lyrics of Prince's Let's Go


Crazy have bolted back into the music world's collective


consciousness tonight after his death was


announced at the age of 57. He became one of the most


pioneering, popular, inimitable voices of the '80s


and '90s and beyond. His music could be haunting,


his stage presence He redefined gender


and his own identity, most notably changing his name


to a symbol to remove himself from contractual obligations


with his record label. Put aside, for a moment,


your concerns about what on earth is happening to our artists


in the year 2016 and remember just There was Elvis in his jumpsuit,


James brown in a cape, but nobody looked, sounded or, dare I say,


smells more like a rock star than Prince. You would call him Snape


kept that he would probably save that made him sad fact.


# She's never satisfied # Why do we scream at each other?


# This is what it sounds like when doves cry...


He sold 100 million records, he won seven Grammys and an Oscar, and he


went through names rapidly, jettisoning them when they didn't


suit him any more. # You've got the butterflies... Most


people don't get famous with one name and then change it. What is the


story? Well, I had to search deep within my heart and spirit and I


wanted to make a change and move to a new plateau in my life, and one of


the ways I did that was to change my name. It sort of divorced me from


the past and all the hang-ups that go with it.


# I only want to see you laughing in the purple rain


# Purple rain, purple rain # Purple rain... Prince, or whatever


alias he happened to be serving under, right, he could he could


play. -- he could write, he could sing, he could play. An older


generation of tax legends took notice. At a time when I thought


that rock and roll was dead and then I went to see Purple Rain and that


was it. It is a reincarnation of Little Richard and Jimi Hendrix in


one and I thought it was what the world needed. Controversial, but I


love him dearly and I think he is a genius.


Is that Britain's?! Reckon executives might not agree but


Prince was a total pro. Loose Women was never like this. Giving away


free tickets on a chat show. I love you, Prince! I love you back. You


are going to be at Madison Square Garden? We're doing a wonderful


series of concerts with an array of special guests and a bands that


played like a jackhammer. You have to come and check it out. And what


about this for a work ethic? # Oh, no, let's go. The only time it is of


a half-time in the Super Bowl and the smallest guy on the field is the


most valuable player. -- it has ever arraigned at


half-time in the Super Bowl. # You don't have to be beautiful...


To the premature end, he was always writing, playing impromptu


performances and a long run of dates in London.


# 2000, party over, out of time. For better or worse, the star who had


its oil -- had it all, even point his own epitaph, the artist formerly


known as Prince. Steve Smith, remembering Prince. And joining us


now: and Oscar-winning director Steve


McQueen. Mica, you shared a manager with


Prince. Tell us the story of how you first met him. It is very strange. I


was a huge fan and I was given a golden ticket for a private show at


the Camden Palace. Everybody was there. I was 18, standing in the


audience, looking at my hero and thinking, I cannot believe I am


actually watching him. And he called out and said, I think your name is


Mica, Singh. I was just blown away. He gave me the mike and I just


started singing ust My Imagination by the Temptations. I have lived it,


because I was terrified. He was very instinctive. And then he called me


up and asked me to come to Minneapolis, to Paisley Park, and he


wrote a song for my next album. So you literally sang from the


audience? How old were you? 18. And the next thing you knew, he was


writing songs with you and for you? For the second album, yes. It was


amazing. It was shocking for me at the time, obviously. But it was


surreal. Because he was like that. If you liked you, he would find a


way to contact you and work with you. Because that is what he is


like. He knows what he likes. Steve McQueen, what was it for you, the


pool of Prince? What was it that drew you in? It was the freedom.


There was a black artist totally and utterly free. And inclusive. He


wrote, produced, arranged, played all the instruments. And he was sexy


and religious and free in every single aspect of his life. And he


portrayed what he did in such style, and with such funk, you had to go


along with Prince. Prince was Prince, there is only one Prince.


You wanted to make a film with him, or about him. What did you want to


say? The camera would have been shaking if I was making a movie with


Prince. I met him after I won the Oscar and we talked. He was just


extraordinary, a very generous person. He took off his shades and


met my mother and I thanked him for what he had done for black artists,


and black people, because he was just a megastar. He was the best,


there was no one who could touch a guitar, dancing, writing, singing.


Who has all of those talents, all of those gifts? Helped me to unpick


that. I would come back to you, Mica, with the same question in a


minute, but when you say, Steve, all he did for black artists, what did


he do for black artists? What did he give them? I would not say black


artists, I would say young black people, for them it was the first


time the shackles of an industry... I mean, he was free. To put out an


album every year, to tour when he wanted, to do and aftershow, this is


a real artist, with no boundaries. And I think that... I mean, he is so


influential. Look at all the albums that came out in the 80s and all the


people who copied Tim, from George Michael and so on. The 80s and


beyond. Everyone copied Prince. Because he was the way. Mica, did he


feel like that, did he see himself in that way or did he see himself as


a man constantly struggling to change or Dumora? I never got that


from him. -- change or do more. What I got was he was music. He lived it,


breathe that, every aspect of him was music. I mean, I would be in the


studio with him and it would be like until six or 7:00am, he was still


going, like it was the daytime. He was a workaholic, it was all about


music. And he worked incredibly fast. Some of the songs, they are


alleged to have been written in ten minutes. Yes. And loads of them as


well. I remember him telling me that he has bolts of songs that go on and


on. -- vaults. Constantly working time. Amazing. Steve, do you think


there is untapped music that we are only just coming to? Is there a lot


of stuff that did not see the light? I don't know about that. All I want


to say is that what he did, in his unfortunately short lifetime, it is


just incredible. There is enough music that he has produced for three


or four lifetimes. He has done so much musically. It is just


incredible. He moved into movies, of course. What do you think his


influence was there? It is not everyone who can make that


crossover. Well, I think Spike Lee said it best, at that time, when he


did Purple Rain, that was hugely influential, as a black artist,


having a movie about himself, which he produced, and he was financially


involved in and it was a hit, it was unprecedented. What was it, 1984,


85? I think it was 1984. Amazing. And he directed the second one,


Under The Cherry Moon. I mean, he was a pioneer. It is as simple as


that. And he was such a contradiction of figures. He was


someone who felt deeply religious but deeply sexual onstage as well


and outwardly sexual. Yes, when I got into Prince, before I met him,


what happened was I had his album and he had suspenders on. And I come


from the church, so I used to have to hide the album in the house from


my grandparents, who were ministers, because everyone was saying, you


cannot have that, that is wrong. And it did not matter that he had


suspenders on because when you heard that funky beat, I mean, it was just


shocking. The way he fused all of those styles as well, you have to


remember the fused funk, soul, jazz, classical, and then he mixed it with


technology, the way he was so ahead with technology as well, he was


definitely an enigma. The news today has come... I was quite sad,


actually, before I came on the programme but hearing Mica talk


about Prince and human memories, there is so much joy, there is so


much to what he did, the artistry, it is pretty incredible when you


think back. What's Mica was saying, it gives me lots of warmth in my


chest. I was feeling sad before I came on and now I think, he knocked


the ball way out of the park. Was there a moment where you remember


thinking, this man is changing my life, this man is going to have a


profound effect on who I am from now on? I mean, this guy came out with


an album every year. It was just incredible. I remember my friend


Mark gave me, what was it, excuse me, what was the album? I am losing


my train of thought. I was listening to this album and every track was


revolutionary. If I was your girlfriend, hello?! Speeding up the


vocals. Whole idea of him being male, female, inclusive, black,


white, number one, Prince. No one could touch him. I think the best


one was Sign o' the Times, because it was sparse, and the message was


so powerful. That was the one! For me, that was the pinnacle. We have


only just begun the reliving. Before we go, Sign o' the Times, you were


one of the few who spotted some of the warning signs over the last


year, but maybe all was not well with his health. I saw him last year


and I thought he was a bit thin, that was the only thing I thought.


He was the slimmest I have seen him in all the years I have known him


and it was something I thought he looked a bit thin but I think he


worked so hard. This is a guy who was constantly touring, constantly


working and hardly slept. He loved his job. Great to have you both. I


appreciate you joining us tonight. As beacons blaze across the country


this evening to mark the Queen's 90th birthday,


she enjoys what feels like unclouded popularity,


garnering respect even from those who don't see themselves as dyed


in the wool monarchists. So has she properly seen off


the Republican movement in On double time tonight,


here's Stephen Smith again. You could be forgiven for thinking


that Republicans hadn't taken such a pasting since their battles


with the Royalists Today, though, the sovereign


reigns unchallenged, enjoying a popularity to make other


establishment figures Will you be stocking this with


newts? The newts are in there already. I had two badgers


frogspawn. -- two batches of frogspawn.


Labour's Ken Livingstone pours his energy into


But didn't he once hoped to live a bit like the French


Do you still describe yourself as a Republican?


Yes, theoretically, but I don't think it will be an issue


I don't think it will arise because if you say we're


going to get rid of the monarchy, then who are you going to have?


I don't think we want to move to a presidential system


like America, we want to keep a prime ministerial one.


So you would need a head of state, largely ceremonial,


and people don't want some clapped-out old politician.


What you might get is celebrities running for it,


I was really struck because when Mrs Thatcher


was abolishing the TLC, the Queen agreed to come and open


And then when Tony Blair had expelled me from the Labour Party,


she agreed to come to open City Hall on the very day he was


I think the Queen is just above politics, and politicians come


and go, and she is there to serve the people.


Has the bell tolled for a British Republic?


But what about after the Queen's reign?


A recent hit play, King Charles III, imagines rocky times


And some Republicans see it that way, too.


Republicanism used to be the R-word that could not be mentioned,


it could not be talked about, right up until 15 years ago.


Now it's quite acceptable to talk about it, think about it,


And I think that is what has happened, but of course the Queen,


because of her world celebrity status, really,


she is a celebrity rather than anything else,


while she's there, the political class in this country, in my view,


In a room over a pub in Birmingham, members of the pressure group


Republic look forward to what they hope will be


They claim to have 5000 members and many more sympathisers.


Graeme Smith is Republic's full-time salaried CEO.


If it is not her, if it is not the Royals, then we get


President Blair or President Stephen Fry.


You never would, the point is, well, you would get someone


who is quite serious and ultimately has been chosen by the people,


so it is going to be someone that is going to have that kind


Sorry to interrupt you, but it seems we are about to name


a research vessel Boaty McBoatface, so are you sure you have


that much confidence in your fellow citizens?


The point is, we are about to elect a new Mayor of London and we have


elected governments of different stripes across the country


in Scotland, England and Wales and so on.


If you look at the Republic of Ireland, they directly


elect their head of state, who has a very similar


They are accountable and certainly in the last decade and a half


they have enjoyed levels of popularity equal to that


The Queen has been quite clever in not being ostentatiously wealthy.


The next couple of generations are much more open about going


on holiday all the time and all that kind of thing.


And I think what is going to happen is it is going to be evident how out


We are not all in this together if you happen to be a Windsor.


If that has doused the Royal braziers a little, Tracey Emin,


who met the Queen at the Turner Contemporary Gallery


in Margate, says she is a convert to monarchism.


When I was younger, I did not feel for the Royal family


And then, when I was about 20, in my 20s, I saw a royal procession


coming from Victoria Station and I had to get off


the bus and stand and wait, and then when the Queen went past


in her golden coach, my hand went up and I just


started waving and cheering like everybody else.


I am going to do the right thing, I thought, I am going to make


Her Majesty a very nice birthday card and send it.


Yesterday, this woman was elected as the first black female president of


the NUS. Her election has sparked controversy as she has been accused


of anti-Semitic remarks, including -- including Colin Bernd Neumann


university as I missed out let. She says her comments have been


mis-represented, she isn't racist, and she emphasises the difference


between being anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic. She has been accused


of not supporting a motion condemning the so-called Islamic


State, but the NUS says this is because she disputed the wording of


the motion, not the principle. But students from at least seven


universities of voting to disassociate from the NUS. Harry


Samuels, an Oxford NUS delegate who wants to disassociate, joined us.


You are campaigning to disassociate your university, Oxford, from the


NUS. Yes, we disagree with the direction of the NUS. My delegation


was elected on a reformist slate and we went to the conference over the


last few days to see what it was like, to try and put forward some


reformist emotions and to see if there was any way to change the NUS


for the better. This is about the NUS or her in particular? Not hurt


in particular. Her election enshrined the fact that the NUS no


longer represent all students and there are other grievances we have


lived with the rest of the organisation, and it is the mixture


of those reasons and the culmination that we saw in this conference is


why we are campaigning to leave. Looking in, she won it, she got the


mandate, more than 50% of the vote, and that is how democracy works. Are


you saying, we just don't want that any more, we don't buy into it, or


are you saying the NUS doesn't account for at least seven of these


universities? I would dispute that she was elected democratically. The


only people allowed to vote for the NUS president of the senior


delegates. She was elected with I think 372 votes, so 372 people out


of 7 million students represented by the NUS voted for her. That isn't a


mandate. It is still the process by which the NUS elects its presidents,


and she won it. She did, and we are saying that we disagree with that


process and we want the elections for the people who represent the


entire student body to be opened up to all students. There was a motion


on that today which was one member, one vote, and that was defeated. You


want to pull yourself away from the NUS for good. What happens when they


get their next president and it is somebody that you agree with? Do you


opt back in? No, we need to make this clear. We are not seeking to


disaffiliate simply because we disagree with this particular


president. For the last few years, we have seen an increasing level of


things we disagree with, increasing evidence that the organisation can


no longer be reformed, and it is the election of this president that is


the straw that broke the camel's back. Why do you think there is this


shift? A variety of reasons. A lot has to do with the fact that the NUS


fails to engage with the student it seeks to represent. In my election,


as I was elected as a delegate, only 14% of people eligible to vote in


Oxford turned out to vote for me. It is similar across the country. The


NUS fails to engage with people, it fails to go beyond the cliques that


remit, and we think it should be a broad organisation, an organisation


representing all students. We have tried to reform it but they are


simply not able to be reformed any more. The NUS knows it has got a


right of reply and we are happy to speak to them about this and other


issues. Thank you for coming on. Let me take you through the papers. That


story is the top of the Times, Oxford threatens to dump student


union in anti-Semitism row. The topline alongside that picture of


Prince is from Obama, an opinion piece he has written for the Times.


The topline is, don't turn away from the EU, Obama tells Britain, anger


over President's intervention no doubt will come. The Independent as


this silhouette, the black and white Prince with the dates, no words. The


Sun has, the Purple Rain is over. Prince dies on Queen's birthday.


Something that is hard to miss. The Daily Mail has got the Queen herself


with a birthday smile saying, she is loving every -- she is loving every


minute. Two years ago we paid our own


tribute to the artist formerly known as Prince when he played a gig


at Ronnie Scott's nightclub in Soho Newsnight went down to the very long


ticket queue to see what a hardcore I'm not doing it. No, it's cool.


# I only wanted to be some kind of friend...


# Baby, I could never steal you from another


# It's such a shame our friendship had to end


# Purple rain, purple rain # Purple rain, purple rain I've got


a dodgy throat. # Purple rain, purple rain. Purple


rain, purple rain. It was a bit less predictable. No.


# I only want to see you laughing in the purple rain.


Some of us have had lovely print -- spring sunshine and warmth recently


but things are set to


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis.

What's Obama's foreign policy legacy? How did Prince change music? Has the Queen's popularity silenced republicans?