22/04/2016 Newsnight

Maybe at some point down the line, there might be a UK-US trade deal,

but it's not going to happen any time soon,

with the big block of the European Union to get

And the UK is going to be in the back of the queue.

Barack Obama gives the EU Referendum debate both barrels.

In Downing Street today, standing shoulder to shoulder

with David Cameron, he charmed but he also threatened.

Could our trade with America suffer if we left the EU?

I'll be asking the pro-Brexit former Defence Secretary, Liam Fox.

Next week sees the first all-out strike by junior doctors in England

since the founding of the NHS as part of an ongoing dispute over

a new contract that's due to be imposed on them this summer.

But, are the junior doctors as united as you might think?

And the next stop on our Referendum Road:

Katie Razzall heads to the most northern part of the UK -

where they voted No to EEC membership in 1975.

It did reinforce my belief that we didn't want anything to do with

Europe, if that was what it was - no free speech and throwing people into

cars. You have changed your mind? Totally, yes.

On the eve of his 400th anniversary, we celebrate Shakespeare's

continuing relevance by illustrating each of tonight's stories

Let's purge this choler without letting blood:

This we prescribe, though no physician;

Deep malice makes too deep incision; Forget,

Our doctors say this is no month to bleed.

Turn him to any cause of policy,

The Gordian knot of it he will unloose,

that, when he speaks, The air,

And the mute wonder lurketh in men's ears,

To steal his sweet and honey'd sentences.

Our house actor, Akiya, there, with tonight's first

Barack Obama's honey'd sentences were heavily fortified today

when he made an astonishingly full throated intervention into the EU

He warned - as a friend, he said - that Britain would be at the back

of the queue for a future trade deal if it left the EU -

more of a threat than a friendly nudge?

This is all rank hypocrisy say the Brexiters from a country

with tightly closed borders and heavy restrictions

But in a battle between the Remain and Leave

campaigns that is increasingly centred on the economy, will this

There have only been rumours about what she

thinks about Brexit, but

The Royal breakfast table may well have

been graced by the President's views written in the precise prose of an

After lunch with the Queen, conversation unrecorded, it

was talks in Downing Street with the Prime Minister.

As the vehicle they call The Beast attempted a 3-point

turn, the President unleashed a multi-point beasting on the case

The United States wants a strong United Kingdom as a partner, and

the United Kingdom is at its best when it's helping to

It leverages UK power to be part of the European Union.

Where in the past some have doubted Mr Obama's

affection for the UK, today he laid it on with a presidentially crested

But lest we all start feeling all warm and fuzzy about our

international BFF, the President warned us not to expect any special

Some of the folks on the other side have been

ascribing to the United States certain actions we'll take if the UK

They say, for example, we will just cut our own trade

So they are voicing an opinion about what the United States is going to

do, and I figured you might want to hear

it from the President of the

United States what I think the United States is going to do.

And on that matter, for example, I think

it's fair to say that maybe at some point down

UK-US trade agreement, but that isn't going to happen any time soon,

because our focus is in negotiating with the big block of the European

And the UK is going to be in the back of the queue.

And who knows, perhaps they even helped write it.

It was certainly very obliging of the president to

use the British would 'queue' rather than the American world 'line'.

use the British word 'queue' rather than the American word 'line'.

We don't have a trade deal with the US at the moment and we have been in

the European Union for 43 years. We have had difficulty in exporting

some products such as beef to the US. The forget, the non-EU trade

that we do, 73% of it doesn't involve any trade deal at all. --

don't forget. We are trading globally, as we always used to.

But what effect will it have on undecided voters?

I felt it was a bit sugar-coated, because it came down to -- it wasn't

sugar-coated, because it came down to the iniquity -- nitty-gritty of a

trade deal. Having listened to none other than the president of the

United States saying that in any kind of trade deal, the United

Kingdom is going to be at the back of the queue, I take it seriously. I

am still undecided. In some ways, it is good that he is saying what he

is, but we could feel like we're being badgered. In many ways, he has

probably done more to push me in a certain direction than David Cameron

ever could audit in what he said today. We have a cool relationship,

we are friends and so on. All of a sudden, if we leave, we are at the

back of the queue and the friendship is gone. He said eventually... It is

kind of like a veiled threat. It is put quite politely. We are as

important -- we are not as important to America as they are to us. They

will scrap deals with -- they favour deals with other countries over

those with their friends. Who thought the president was right to

give us his views? Who thinks that their decision on the 23rd of June

will be influenced in one way or another by what you heard today? Who

is more likely to vote to remain cos of what they heard today? So, the

three people who say they were influenced, all three of you think

towards remaining rather than leaving? Yes. There is a mixed

reaction in terms of the impact and influence President Obama will have.

People find it difficult to recognise what will influence their

own vote. You have another important voice for many people, particularly

those who might be wavering. It won't be that they will think in two

months, what did Obama say? But it is one thing to reaffirm the story

of stability and reinforce the idea partnership. This evening, President

Obama went to dinner with the younger royals. One suspects that

the Prime Minister was grinning too. Whether it will change things on

polling day, that is another matter. Joining me now is the Eurosceptic

former Defence Secretary, Liam Fox. From Chicago, we also

have the former US Ambassador First, you are close to Barack

Obama. People are saying that he brought a gun to a knife fight and

that American interests are at play, not British ones. First, let me say

that Liam Fox is going to be on the programme, and he is a good friend

and we work together. Obviously, we are agreeing to disagree. I don't

think the president came with a gun to a knife fight, I think he was

trying to say that he thought it was in the best interests of America and

he believes it's the best interest in the UK that they remain in the

EU. There are many reasons for this. You can list them, they go on. Every

country, as the Prime Minister said, that we know of, including the

Commonwealth, doesn't want them to leave. I don't know one country that

thinks it's a great idea that they should leave. The president feels

very strongly that the UK is our closest and best ally. We work

together on everything puzzled when I was ambassador, if there was an

issue, it was the first call. To have the UK not be at the table in

the EU will be not good. Thank you. I will stick with you for a bit,

Liam Fox, because I understand, first of all, that you were going to

be the ringleader to get a letter together to stop Barack Obama's

intervention. Did you think it was because it would be as powerful as

this, right or wrong? We have a referendum at the end of June and

the presidential election is in November, so whoever is at the helm

in the United States, it won't be Barack Obama, so whatever he says

today, it is irrelevant. The second thing is, why do we get trade

agreements? We get them because it is to be mutual benefit of both

parties. We have a roughly balanced trade. The US export of $57 billion

worth of goods and services and we did the same to them. The United

States has trade relationships with countries such as Australia, who are

much trading -- smaller trading partners than we are.

Is there a single major American figure who favours Brexit cosmic

Marco Rubio, in The Times, said just that.

There are people who demur from your position. Sticking with Liam Fox,

you talked about the fact that there is an American election in November

and that it won't be Barack Obama. Actually, the European bloc will

still be the largest one for goods and services. It will be right,

won't it, that it is more important for America to do a trade deal with

500 million consumers rather than just with the UK. They don't just do

one trade agreement at a time. They are capable of walking and chewing

gum, as they say. They are able to do more than one agreement at a

time. Let us point out the difficulties of TTIP, which is why

it has so long to take -- White has taken so long to an agreement. It

will be determined by American interest as much as ours.

For your own career, Liam Fox, you have always looked to America for

inspiration, and euro, Britain and the US trust one another because we

look at the world the same way. Do you change your opinion now? I think

we look at the world as being globalised. We need to take

advantage of agility and flexibility in our international relations. We

are built on the same values and the. My problem with the EU at the

moment is that it is not a successful union, has mass youth

unemployment, rising ethnic and international tensions, a growing

rise of political extremism - that is my worry, that that is not

reflecting what the UK stands for. Louis Sussman, the big accusation of

American hypocrisy, Ebola saying you are one to talk about sharing

borders and sovereignty. Let's be clear: The sovereignty issue has not

been an issue with any other country that I have heard of in the EU. I

worry deeply that the consequences of the UK leaving our immense. You

have a situation where investors and business will be insecure. The Bank

of England says that the pound sterling will suffer. We have a long

timing period where, if it leaves, there are two years before you can

get out. If you read the treaty, you will find out on the exit, the other

people decide what the terms are, and you either have to accept them

or turn it down. Let me ask Liam Fox something. We

had Boris Johnson writing in the Sun today about Barack Obama being part

Kenyan. Do you defend his language today? I defend his right to say

anything he likes. And he will say it in his own style. In the debate

we heard the Downing Street tune. The same tune from Francois

Hollande, you are our best friend, we are weak if you go, but there

will be dire consequences if you do. Today we had you are our best

friend, we have a special relationship, and you will get a

beating if you leave. It is the same Downing Street refrain. Exactly what

I would have expected to hear and that is exactly what we did hear.

Thank you both. Let's purge this choler

without letting blood: This we prescribe,

though no physician; Deep malice makes too

deep incision; Forget, forgive; conclude and be agreed;

Our doctors say this Well, there is a danger

of malice entering There have been three

partial strikes by junior doctors in England since January,

and on Tuesday they will walk out of A units in the first of two

planned days of total strikes in protest at the imposition

of a new contract in the summer. However leaked emails suggest that

future action over the contract One email from a member of the BMA

junior doctors' committee reads, "Maybe if it gets really

bad, all the juniors But how much support

is there for an all-out strike? I'm joined now by two junior

doctors - Chris Kane, who works in palliative

medicine in West Yorkshire, and Roshana Mehdian,

who works in trauma We should also say that junior

doctors, all the way up to consultant grades. You are a

registrar, and you too. How far are you prepared to go? In the big

picture? Yes. As far as we need to go to ensure that the contract which

comes in for us is safe for us and our patients. Unfortunately we are

not being listened to. Jeremy Hunt and the Department of Health don't

really want to listen to reason so we are forced to take action like

this which is unprecedented, as you say. It is. We know that consultants

will cover on Tuesday. Will you actually want to take a member of

your family into hospital on Tuesday? I wouldn't have a problem

with that. The important point is to contextualise this. The best way I

can describe it is my own situation. In my department, on a bank holiday

come on a weekend, there would be three, four doctors covering

emergency care. In the strike there will be ten consultants covering

emergency care. That is twice as many doctors and the most highly

trained doctors. Are you comfortable with this approach? From the

argument she is making about safety, then yes, AMD -- A departments

will be covered. But at what cost? To provide the cover they have had

to cancel clinics and operations. Some of those clinics will be

routine and can wait. But some are chemotherapy clinics. Patients are

seeing if they are ready to get their next dose of chemotherapy. For

me, I'm not sure I can justify taking away my labour so consultants

have to come away from dealing with those situations. What would the

impact of this be on the debate? I think very clearly Jeremy Hunt has

tried very hard to paint the BMA as left wing, militant, and hardline.

To some extent this plays into his narrative that we are unreasonable,

that we are not listening, that we are not talking, when actually we

are very breezy little people. All of us go into medicine because we

like our patients and we want to care for people. -- reasonable

people. Going on all of that strike really feeds into Jeremy Hunt's

narrative that we are not reasonable. It isn't all junior

doctors who want to take the line of going on an unprecedented strike.

Other doctors have different views. There is a difference in assessment

of the situation. Chris is looking at it from the point of view of

palliative care. You see patients who have regular care. But you know

each other's jobs. Absolutely. Chris is saying that the BMA will come out

of this badly either way because it plays into come he would say, Jeremy

Hunt's hands because you might be withholding care from people. Sure.

I would like to say that I have actually seen a press release from

NHS England which will come out on Monday. I have seen it in advance.

It says priority has been given to oncology and palliative care

patients. They have had absolute plans from every trust in the United

Kingdom to look at specifically the urgency of those patients. May ask,

if these e-mails have been leaked, and that the junior doctors

committee have said that the policy is indefinite action, what is your

reaction? -- may I ask. I cannot countenance that. I don't think we

can justify that. It makes us look unreasonable. We are not. I would

like to address the point about NHS England Saint palliative care has

been prioritised. My job is to build a relationship of trust with my

patients. It takes time. People are vulnerable. Even if my consultants

come in, and they are amazing at their job, I have still lost that

position... I wouldn't agree with that. The conversations I have with

my patient in my clinics, when we talk about this, and they bring it

up, not a single patient told me they would lose trust in me. In fact

the opposite. I will assess things after the next strike. Thank you

very much. Now, let's get Shakespeare to help

us back to the Referendum. Upon a pleasing

treaty, and have hearts Inclinable to honour and advance The theme

of our assembly: the people Must have their voices; neither

will they bate One jot of ceremony. but it's closer to the Arctic Circle

than it is to London. The Shetland Isles make up the UK's

most northerly outpost. Now, the last time we had

a referendum on our relationship with Europe -

that was in 1975 when we voted on membership of the EEC -

Shetland was one of only But these remote islands,

with their 22,000 inhabitants, have We sent Katie Razzall

as far north as we could, without leaving the country,

in this latest film in our More than 100 islands

with only 15 inhabited. It's the Shetland

name for the puffin. There is a Scandinavian twang

in the air. Shetland is closer to Norway

than mainland Scotland. You are a Viking, that is why

you named it Valhalla, right? These islands are the most northerly

region of Britain and they don't let Back in the '70s, flares

and rebellion hit Shetland. It was one of only two places

in the UK to vote against staying Well, this is the Shetland Times

from the 13th of June 1975. Decisive no to Europe

from fishermen. And you have been news

editor for ten years, born and bred Shetland,

have you, since this time, all those years ago,

has Shetland changed a lot, has the community changed,

people's identity? Well, the biggest change in Shetland

since that time is the onset of the oil industry,

which had just been There weren't many opportunities

for jobs up here. Many people for a long time

were employed in the oil industry. But before that it was

the fishing industry. Good afternoon, this

is Richard Forbes with the news In Shetland, the climate

is so changeable you can get a month But how changeable are Shetlanders'

attitudes to the EU four decades on? New industries have grown up

since the fishermen swung the vote, Shetland is pioneering tidal power,

and Fred Gibson's firm, which has received some EU funding,

is making the fibreglass blades. The first one is up and running

at the moment. As we speak it is actually

producing electricity So you will be voting to stay in?

Oh, absolutely. I think it is going to be very

interesting, what is going I can see exactly why they voted

no last time. That was purely down

to the fishing industry. That is still important

in Shetland, but it employs far When I was at school,

there would be at least three or four other pupils in my class

whose fathers were going out It is funny because I asked that

same question to my children quite recently, and they said

that they didn't know anyone, then one of them said

that he thought somebody's father Two ferries and a drive

from the warehouse in the capital Lerwick is the island

of Unst, the most northerly Visitors come for the puffins that

frequent these parts. But it is too early in the season

and the closest I was going to get was the UK's most

northerly post office. They all want to get their cards

franked with Britain's most Back in 1975, the Shetland Islands

did vote no in the beginning. Do you think it will go that

way again here? You think people will vote

to stay in? I think the unknown -

if you are not in it, Many of the 600 souls

living on Unst descended who raided and then settled

Shetland. Every year the Up Helly Aa Festival

sees locals set fire to a replica Viking longboat and generally revel

in their heritage with one person So where does one find a Viking

when they are not burning ships? There is certainly a lot of Viking

blood still in Shetland. Sonny Priest runs Britain's most

northerly brewery called Valhalla after the Viking heaven,

appropriate for a man who was chief We are closer to Oslo

than we are to London. Do you look at that model,

the Norway model, of how they deal with the EU and think

we should be like that? I've just come back

from being in Norway. They seem to have

plenty money there. There's never been

the banking crisis, not But they don't have a place

at the table to argue their point They are doing perfectly

well without that place. Tourism is a big part

of the Shetland economy. This is supposed to be the only

place in the UK where you can throw a stone from there over

there into the North Sea. One island south of Unst is,

you've got it, the UK's most Are you veering one way or another

at all, have you heard I've just kind of stayed

away from the subject This is the most northerly

fish and chip shop in our country. How do you think everybody

would feel if they opened a fish We would have to change

a lot of signs. CHUCKLES Agricultural subsidies

often put farmers in the Remain camp, but not Martin Burgess,

out tending his sheep in what must What is it about these hardy

islanders with their Norse heritage? Shetland has, I think,

more of a global outlook. We have an oil industry,

which is a global industry. We have fishing industries right

across the globe. Looking at little Europe it's not

an area that is really for us. As a council vet,

Hillary Burgess is neutral. Since I have been here,

we have seen the profitability And people struggling

to make a living. And at the same time the amount

of Europe bureaucracy, the amount of legislation

and regulations that people have to keep up with,

is always increasing. So people are really

living in fear of that. I wouldn't say I was

European at all. In this part amongst

the tourists Shetlanders were far Not one of the 15 locals I spoke

to planned to vote out, including one woman who back

in the 70s was even arrested It did reinforce my belief

that we didn't want anything to do with this Europe place,

if that is what it was. I can see the benefits, and I also

feel a sense of belonging. I have gone as far north as it's

possible to drive in the UK. And reached one end

of the referendum road. Shetland is one of the country's

most remote communities, but it is also amongst

the most globally minded. Things have certainly moved

on since 1975, but nobody Before we finish tonight,

we couldn't let our actor go without a Shakespearean tribute

to Prince - these words could have been written for him,

one of the most creative musicians of our generation,

who died this week. Sweet rose, fair flower,

untimely pluck'd, soon faded, Pluck'd in the bud,

and faded in the spring! Bright orient pearl,

alack, too timely shaded! -- Bright orient pearl,

black, too timely shaded! Fair creature, kill'd too soon

by death's sharp sting! And falls, through wind,

before the fall should be. Our thanks to the

actress Akiya Henry. Our Shakespeare quotes,

selected by the Shakespeare scholar Jonathan Bate,

were from Henry V for Barack Obama, from Richard II for the junior

doctors' strike. For Shetland, Akiya read

from Coriolanus, and in memory of Prince, we heard from a sonnet

attributed to Shakespeare, Good night, good night,

parting is such sweet sorrow. That I shall say goodnight

till it will be morrow. Staff today starts with the blue sky

and sunshine. There are some differences and some of them will be

significant in