Browse content similar to 06/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It is absolutely great to be here. We hung on and we got support in a | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
We hung on and we got support in a lot of places. | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
The parties each have their triumphs. | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
But they also have their tribulations. | :00:25. | :00:26. | |
We'll try to make sense of the complicated map | :00:27. | :00:28. | |
These results suggest that we are now in an era where no | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
Labour and Conservative, the two big national parties, | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
And what does the defeat of Zac Goldsmith imply | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
It is amazing that, of all people, it is Zac Goldsmith who ends up, | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
if you like, bringing back the Nasty Party label to the | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
In Scotland The SNP won an historic third term | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
in the Scottish parliament, but not a majority, in an election | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
We will govern with conviction, with ambition and with determination, | :01:00. | :01:09. | |
but also with humility and a willingness to | :01:10. | :01:11. | |
But the big story was the Conservative comeback, | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
No, I don't have any particular party allegiance but this time | :01:16. | :01:25. | |
I'll be discussing why voters trust the Tories more than | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
And Artsnight returns with David Baddiel asking | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
if the Great Man theory of history has any relevance today. | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
There is no longer a pool of adoration waiting to seize on this | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
There are many more writers than there used to be. | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
Results day and more evidence of the new kaleidoscope politics | :01:50. | :02:06. | |
that has replaced the old two-party system in Britain. | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
It's not just that we have different winners in different | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
parts of the country, we have different contests as well. | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
While the SNP got Scotland, Labour got Wales and London, | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
and the Tories did OK'ish in the rest of England, | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
Plaid Cymru making progress, Ukip getting over 10% | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
of the British vote, and even the Lib Dems | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
stubbornly refusing to die, in fact getting 15% of the projected | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
The main preoccupation today has been to ask, | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
as we always do, what does it mean for the next general election? | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
Can Labour win in 2020 or is it obvious the Conservatives will? | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
But right now it's not even clear what Labour and Conservative | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
Is Ruth Davidson's pro-EU Conservatism in Scotland | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
the same as Boris Johnson's brexit-leaning metropolitanism? | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
Is Sadiq Khan really a representative | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
It's a complex map - different colours, and different | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
And to help make sense of it, our political editor Nick Watt. | :03:09. | :03:17. | |
Nick, make sense of it. What today did provided us with a reminder that | :03:18. | :03:26. | |
we really live in the 30-something era of politics. The two main | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
parties were scrabbling around in the early 30%, but in the general | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
election it looks like the winner cannot get above the late 30s in a | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
percentage and the second party, Labour, is in the low 30s. Why is | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
that? They both face structural problems. Labour has the structural | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
problem of now not existing in Scotland and a problem in southern | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
England. The Conservatives have a problem in northern England and | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
London. That means neither of the parties is going to get into 40%, so | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
we will not see the politics that we grew up with, a dominant Margaret | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
Thatcher, a dominant Tony Blair. It is interesting, you were talking | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
about the kaleidoscope. We will find the kaleidoscope is shaken this | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
year, not today, but on the 23rd of June when we have that referendum. | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
That is the big picture. Let's focus on the stories people focus on these | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
days, what it means for the leaders of the two main parties. The Jeremy | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
Corbyn camp are saying they have seen of what they are calling a | :04:36. | :04:43. | |
pre-coup copout. They mean that they were expecting those who have | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
problems with Jeremy Corbyn's leadership would come out of the | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
trenches overnight, their would-be MPs we have not heard about saying, | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
it is time to think about his leadership, and they were expecting | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
the coup would be launched on the 24th of June after the referendum. | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
They are confident that is not going to happen. But what the critics are | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
saying is it is OK for the moment, but you have got a year. But we will | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
believe it when we see it. There is unease in the Conservative Party | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
over Zac Goldsmith's campaign. We decided to stand back and have a | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
look, what have we learned from these elections around the UK? | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
A balmy spring evening outside London city hall as the parties wait | :05:29. | :05:35. | |
for one of the final big results on the UK's attempt at a super Thursday | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
election. What can seasoned political observers take away from | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
these results? Labour is still in the game and a coup against Jeremy | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
Corbyn is off the table until after the EU referendum and probably | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
beyond. But these results suggest the parties have got a very long way | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
to go to show it is a potential government in waiting. But let's | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
have credit where credit is due. The leadership ran a very effective | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
operation to manage expectations over Labour's performance. For the | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
first time since 1910, they have come third in their traditional | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
stronghold in Scotland. When the seats change and the boundaries | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
changed at that the general election they will need to be 13% ahead in | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
the polls in England in order to win and this does not suggest this is | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
going to happen. Most leaders of the opposition when they start their job | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
and go into these elections gain hundreds of seats. This is the first | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
time in decades somebody has not achieved that. No conservative | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
colossus despite what those pictures of Dave and Barack Obama might | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
suggest. A poor showing in the southern shires in England will | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
cause disappointment in Number Ten, though Ruth Davidson's success in | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
Scotland suggest the Conservative and Unionist party is on its way | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
back to being the party of the whole union once again. The fact Unionist | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
party and the Conservatives gained seats in Scotland in quite a | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
significant fashion, taking them away from Labour, is very important | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
for the Conservatives who talk about being a real one nation Conservative | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
Party. The United Kingdom is just that little bit more secure. The SNP | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
failure to maintain its parliamentary majority means it will | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
be more difficult to ask for a second referendum after a Brexit | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
book, but the green success means there is a pro-independence majority | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
in Hollywood. Quite a tough campaign, but not too tough. Sadiq | :07:42. | :07:49. | |
Khan's campaign shows tactics must deal with facts and must not fear | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
into US style culture war. That is the lessons that Goldsmith is | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
tonight. Lynton Crosby is not invincible as an adviser to the | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
Conservative Party. He understands Middle England and that was his | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
point about their victory in the 2015 election. This suggests he does | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
not understand modern London. Ukip is back in business, its success in | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
Wales means it has a visible footprint in all three parts of | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
Great Britain. It is a bit of a mixed blessing for Nigel Farage who | :08:25. | :08:26. | |
sees his party slip into fourth place in the national vote share. | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
Unlikely political bedfellows. Jeremy Corbyn is delighted that | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is safe, but so too is David Cameron who believes that | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
every day the Labour leader remains in office will really help his | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
successor as Tory leader when the next general election comes. Next | :08:46. | :08:53. | |
week, we will see the EU referendum campaign picked up speed again. That | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
is really an event that could reset British politics for a generation. | :08:59. | :08:59. | |
We'll focus on the Conservatives first. | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
A lot of controversy about the campaign in London. | :09:05. | :09:06. | |
Zac Goldsmith's sister, Jemima Khan, tweeted this: "Sad that | :09:07. | :09:08. | |
Zac's campaign did not reflect who I know him to be." | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
Sayeeda Warsi, former Tory Chairman tweeted, | :09:12. | :09:12. | |
campaign lost us the election, our reputation and credibility | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
Well, it was said to be a campaign by the playbook of Tory | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
It wasn't him in fact behind Zac, it was his company. | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
But in strange timing, he was knighted by the Queen today. | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
Earlier, I spoke to David Cameron's former right-hand man, | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
Steve Hilton, never one in the mould of Sir Lynton. | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
What did he make of the election of a muslim mayor in London? | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
I think it's really great news, frankly. | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
I think it is very powerful and positive message about London. | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
It was interesting, last week and the week before I have been over | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
on the east coast of America, in New York and Washington, | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
and it was really interesting how much interest there | :09:56. | :09:57. | |
Most of it was centred around the fact that this great | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
cosmopolitan city could potentially elect a Muslim Mayor. | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
You say all of that, a lot of people will say that | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
Zac Goldsmith's campaign was, if you like, expressing the very | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
opposite sentiments to the ones you have just expressed, | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
which was dog whistle, bringing, in quite subtle ways, | :10:18. | :10:19. | |
I don't know what your thoughts were about that campaign. | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
The overall impression I got from Zac's campaign was of a rather | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
old-fashioned and, frankly, uninspiring campaign. | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
I was surprised about that because Zac, who I know pretty well, | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
is actually a really interesting, thoughtful, somewhat | :10:39. | :10:40. | |
antiestablishment character in politics and he has got a very | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
interesting set of views of different kinds | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
And it seemed to me that none of that actually was | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
Which, to be honest, I found rather weird. | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
But what I would say is that, at the very least, it's rather | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
careless to allow your campaign to be characterised in that way and, | :11:01. | :11:02. | |
frankly, it's rather amazing that, of all people, it is Zac Goldsmith | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
who ends up, if you like, bringing back the Nasty Party label | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
You would think something like that can be used to re-toxify the Tories. | :11:09. | :11:16. | |
You were obviously involved there, trying to detoxify them back | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
I think that is certainly what people are saying. | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
As I say, I am not in a position to judge whether it is fair or not. | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
But, you know, I have been involved in campaigns and you have to be | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
careful to make sure that what you say and do cannot be | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
misrepresented in ways that are fundamentally unhelpful. | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
Of course your opponents are going to say things you don't | :11:39. | :11:40. | |
agree with and try and distort what you do and so on, | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
But I think that the way this particular accusation has | :11:44. | :11:50. | |
been allowed to stick - frankly, even if that is unfair - | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
shows that there is something there that at the very | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
And, I think, could be pretty damaging, yes. | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
I am sensing that you prefer something a little more positive | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
and maybe think that this negativity has shown its limits? | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
It seems to me that Zac's campaign was a real missed | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
opportunity because London, it feels to me, is the kind of place | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
where you could really do well with a more modern, | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
less partisan, more inspiring and optimistic kind of campaign, | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
given the kind of city it is and the fact that it is not | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
necessarily the case that you have got so many people | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
there who are dyed-in-the-world Labour or Conservative, | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
I think that, therefore, a fresh, modern campaign could really have | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
Well, let's talk to Matthew Hancock, Cabinet Office minister. | :12:37. | :12:47. | |
It is not official, but we know Sadiq Khan has won. Do you welcome | :12:48. | :12:55. | |
the fact that it is a great cosmopolitan city and it has a | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
Muslim Mayor? Yes in a way. I voted for Zac Goldsmith, I think he would | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
have been a better Mayor. He may well still be, we have not had the | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
official declaration! But I think the fact that London can have a | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
debate between two people of different religions reflecting the | :13:17. | :13:23. | |
fact that we have got a multireligious city is overall | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
positive for London. What did you think of the campaign? It has been | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
widely panned and now we know definitively it did not work. It was | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
criticised before, but now we know it did not work. I wonder whether | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
you think any lessons need to be taken from that? I think that is a | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
little unfair. I think the campaign had positive elements on housing and | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
transport and especially on the environment which Zac Goldsmith has | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
got a long history on and has been working on for many years. If you | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
look at the statistics we have seen so far, the proportion of the boat | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
that Zac got is very similar to the proportion we got in the general | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
election a year ago in London. I think there is a bigger question. | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
London has proved that at the general election last year that it | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
is more difficult for us than other parts of the country. If you look at | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
the rest of the country, we did pretty well in the English council | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
elections, we took seats and we got cancelled away from Labour in key | :14:28. | :14:34. | |
battle ground areas like Bury, in Lancashire, and Nuneaton. We all | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
remember in Nuneaton. And then of course Scotland, which is a positive | :14:40. | :14:40. | |
result for the Conservatives. In a word, are you satisfied with | :14:41. | :14:49. | |
the campaign or does the Tory Party need to learn lessons that did not | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
work in London, which is different from Nuneaton and Scotland? Clearly. | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
What I am saying is there is something about London that is | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
changing in a different way to the rest of the country. I think it is | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
unfair to pin that specifically on this campaign. There is a bigger | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
question. And that is clear from the fact that we did about as well in | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
London at the General Election last year... What lesson do you take from | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
the success of Ruth Davidson in Scotland? David Cameron implied if | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
you campaign moderately, you can get votes and that is a lesson he drew | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
from that, perhaps a failed criticism of Zac Goldsmith? I think | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
she is a wonderful politicians. She is a modern, compassionate | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
conservative. She is up meat and vibrant and is a potential for real | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
realignment of politics there. When you give the powers of tax and spend | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
to Scotland, instead of this Scottish debate being constantly | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
just about how you are going to spend the money that comes here, | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
instead it becomes about how much as well and should be put up taxes? | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
There is space for a centrist, sensible Conservative Party to make | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
the argument that has not been heard in Scotland for 30 years. Would be | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
nice if she was later -- leader of the Conservative Party overall? That | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
cannot happen, cannot? David Cameron has just had a pretty good set of | :16:30. | :16:37. | |
results. This is a new patchwork. We have a government that cannot get a | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
majority of 100, that they used to, and will have to U-turn on | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
everything. Today, another big U-turn on the academies programme. I | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
will not waste time trying to list the others. Amazing what this is | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
meaning? We can come back to that but I want to pick up on the | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
question, you said that no longer can we get the sort of majorities we | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
used to. Actually, one of the most significant results from tonight is | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
that because in Scotland the SNP have entrenched, they lost the | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
majority, and we came second above the Labour Party, it is almost | :17:20. | :17:21. | |
impossible for the Labour Party to win the next election without the | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
support of the SNP. And that is astonishing. That is no scare. That | :17:28. | :17:35. | |
is a fact and it was at the last election and it looks like from the | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
results tonight, it will be a fact at the next election. The Scottish | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
result in significant within Scotland, the Conservative Party | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
coming second, what it is also important for the next General | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
Election. Talking of skiers, eight police forces investigating | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
Conservative election expenses and they have an extension on the time | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
they are allowed to investigate this. Are you and the party scared | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
of the implications of that? Something like 27 MPs, the expenses | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
being investigated from last year? No, as far as I understand all of | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
the rules were followed and I'm sure the investigation will... | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
Administrative errors? There is an investigation and I will not get | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
into the details but as far as we know those rules were followed. | :18:27. | :18:27. | |
Thank you. Well, it is a feature of these | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
results that two of the politicians who stand tallest in the UK right | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
now, are from Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson, | :18:34. | :18:35. | |
the scottish results producing Let's go to Edinburgh | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
for more on that. In the Scottish elections | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
it was the Union versus independence and that created not one, | :18:43. | :18:54. | |
not two, but three stories. The SNP won an unprecedented third | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
term with a result just short Ruth Davidson lead the Tories | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
back into contention after decades of decline | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
as the main opposition party, leading David Cameron to tweet | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
"she will stand up to the SNP and give Scotland | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
strong opposition." For Labour it was a disastrous | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
result, their worst in history. It's now a different political | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
dynamic in Scotland, one which Nicola Sturgeon recognised | :19:20. | :19:21. | |
when she said today she would aim The government I lead will be an | :19:22. | :19:36. | |
inclusive government. It will be firm on our determination to deliver | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
on the commitments we made to the Scottish people but it will also | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
reach out and seek to work with others across the Parliament to find | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
common ground and build consensus. So what were the voters | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
telling the politicians? I began the day in Glasgow, | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
now in constituency terms Glasgow's political history has been | :19:57. | :19:58. | |
turned upside down here. In the vast post-war | :19:59. | :20:06. | |
housing estates Labour Even a decade ago, | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
it was unthinkable that this constituency of Glasgow Pollok | :20:10. | :20:18. | |
would do anything other than elect a Labour MSP | :20:19. | :20:20. | |
with votes by the bucketload, but this is how much | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
things have changed. In 1999, in the first elections | :20:24. | :20:25. | |
to the Scottish Parliament, every single constituency MSP | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
in Glasgow was Labour. Last night, the voters of Pollock | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
helped ensure that every single So what contribution do the 16 | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
and 17-year-olds make in Pollock as they become the first | :20:37. | :20:49. | |
under 18s to vote in People are saying now that in this | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
election it was still Yes, independence obviously matters | :20:53. | :21:05. | |
because it is a big issue. Especially since the referendum | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
and a result that a lot But it is not the only | :21:10. | :21:11. | |
issue that matters. It is not as if education | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
and taxation are not They say when you want a piece | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
of wisdom, ask a taxi driver. The question - when Labour was last | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
dominant in the country, who or what The reply came back - | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
Donald Dewar. I think we what we need to do | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
is identify how we speak And therefore we need to find ways | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
to give back to those individuals We need to build trust over the next | :21:37. | :21:44. | |
few years so that people can have I'm genuinely convinced | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
that the long-term solution - there is perennial debate | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
in Scotland about the constitution - is to have a federal Britain | :21:56. | :21:57. | |
and the Labour Party The Edinburgh-Glasgow divide | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
is often exaggerated but in political terms now | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
it is stark. I have left the West and I'm headed | :22:06. | :22:07. | |
East to the capital. If Glasgow is firmly | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
pro-independence, then in Edinburgh, people have voted for the party | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
they think will do the best job Does this election tell | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
you that there is no appetite I think there is a range of things | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
going on out there with voters. Some voters see perfectly well | :22:25. | :22:32. | |
that the case perhaps wasn't made last time and not everybody | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
was convinced and they are prepared The person the voters think will do | :22:36. | :22:38. | |
best at taking on the SNP is Ruth The Conservatives are now the main | :22:39. | :22:46. | |
opposition in Scotland. They have knocked Labour | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
into third position. That is an astonishing feat | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
and total embarrassment for Labour. And I think Ruth Davidson has gone | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
some way to banishing the ghost She doesn't think that | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
many of the people who voted for her are necessarily | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
what she calls true blue, They voted for her because they have | :23:08. | :23:09. | |
given her a political job to do. And I met one voter who did | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
exactly that. No, I don't have any particular | :23:15. | :23:22. | |
party allegiance but this time I did | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
vote Conservative. Just because I felt that | :23:28. | :23:28. | |
Ruth Davidson would offer the strong opposition that Scotland has been | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
lacking for so long. It almost feels as if the SNP has | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
had an unchallenged run The SNP's historic win of a third | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
term but short of an overall majority by two puts a degree | :23:41. | :23:47. | |
of power in the hands And that is exactly the way | :23:48. | :23:49. | |
the Scottish electoral system The Greens do pose | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
a bit of a difficulty. They are far to the left of the SNP, | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
their position on fracking and income tax is not something | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
the SNP would be comfortable with. So it could be that even | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
the Lib Dems come back into play Aside from all the horse | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
trading that lies ahead, the constitutional argument isn't | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
going to go away. But this result reduces the chance | :24:19. | :24:20. | |
of another referendum I am joined by Fiona Heslop, the SNP | :24:21. | :24:39. | |
minister, and Myers Briggs, a mSP and Tory MP. The historic third term | :24:40. | :24:46. | |
but no overall majority, that rules out any idea of another referendum | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
in the lifetime of this Parliament? It is a historic win and the first | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
party to get over 1 million votes but we will listen to the people of | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
Scotland. The people don't appear to want another referendum on | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
independence. If you look at the numbers, there is a majority in | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
favour of independence in terms of MSPs that were elected but we | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
clearly said in the manifesto that our job is to persuade people and | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
that is exactly what we will do but in the meantime we have to govern | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
well and it is a record victory. Would it be fair to say that Ruth | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
Davidson did not even think she would get this result? It has been a | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
spec that can result for the party and we are honoured that the people | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
have put their trust in the Conservative Party at the selection | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
and we have become the official opposition. As we heard, and she | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
said herself, a lot of people who voted Tory are not Conservatives and | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
presumably Apple temper the agenda you put forward? The people of | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
Scotland has asked us to do a job which is to hold her government to | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
account and we are saying that it is time to turn the page on the concert | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
usual arguments. This is the way the process was designed. Is it good for | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
democracy to have to be held to account more tightly and have to | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
negotiate, line by line? This is our third term, the first German had | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
only 47 votes and we ran in minority government and we now have 63, | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
effectively administering the government is only 64 votes over the | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
past period so it is perfectly possible but good politics means | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
that when we were a majority, we behaved like a minority as part of | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
the process is taking people with us and we have a good system that can | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
involve the parliament and take things forward so the journey we are | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
on is about constitutional development in Scotland and the | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
Democratic excitement. We will talk about the key policies in a moment | :26:53. | :26:54. | |
that talk about the budget because you will remember, the last time | :26:55. | :27:00. | |
there was a minority SNP administration the Conservatives | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
voted with the SNP to get the budget through. Will you do that again? We | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
need to see what the SNP put forward in this Parliament and we will work | :27:10. | :27:11. | |
constructively with the government and we think it will help to me | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
Scotland forward but we want the government to focus on the issues | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
that matter to people, who want them to look again at repealing the nine | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
person policy which has seen every child having a state guardian | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
allocated to them and we want to focus on creating jobs and growth in | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
the country, we are falling of the UK in terms of the economy so we | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
need to see action. It is fair to say that the main Guardian policy | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
has been very controversial? Because certain media have made it that way. | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
The issues that people are interested in, they want jobs for | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
the young people and a Health Service, we need investment above | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
inflation, we have a good track record in terms of achievement and | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
tacking the inequalities in Scotland. That is what people want | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
to see us focus on and that is what we will do. In a progressive way. | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
Things like the doubling of childcare provision for 2 euros and | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
three rows? Will you back that? Yes and that is in our manifesto, we | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
will work together when we can improve the country. It does sound | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
very cosy. Leadership and vision. It will not intrude on the very public | :28:25. | :28:32. | |
grief, but will you work with Kezia Dugdale in this way? We have a | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
minority government so all the parties I hope can put forward ideas | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
and policies and the government will listen to us on these and we will | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
work together to try to take this forward and Kezia Dugdale will have | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
areas she will want to pursue but as the official opposition our key | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
project in this Parliament and the thing people voted for is for us to | :28:53. | :29:00. | |
hold the government to account. We know that in the parliament we can | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
take everybody with us in terms of a number of issues that we have laid | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
on and it isn't in port and we engage, Scotland is very engaged in | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
politics. It was to see the Parliament striving Scotland forward | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
and I think that is a good example of how democratic mandates can work, | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
we can have a different type of parliament in Scotland and the rest | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
of the UK and we can do that successfully. 17-year-olds getting | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
the vote, a very proud example. Thank you. | :29:29. | :29:36. | |
We enjoyed seeing the dog have a bit of refreshment in the background. | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
Let's talk about Labour now, and its identity crisis. | :29:44. | :29:45. | |
It's not involved in one simple battle against the Conservatives, | :29:46. | :29:47. | |
In Scotland it's fighting for Unionist votes with the Tories. | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
It's competing for left-wing votes with the SNP. | :29:52. | :29:53. | |
it's trying to keep UKIP away from its working class votes. | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
And it's fighting the Tories in London and elsewhere. | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
But perhaps the most important battle is for the heart and soul | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
We'll discuss Labour's challenges shortly. | :30:05. | :30:11. | |
But Katie Razzall went to Nuneaton today, to canvas views there. | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
That of course is the Midlands swing town that went Tory last year, | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
telling us on election night, that Labour had no hope of winning. | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
Big glasses, embarrassing photo opportunities, the parallels | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
And of course there is often a nasty surprise in the end. | :30:26. | :30:38. | |
So, did last night's results leave the Conservatives smiling | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
Or is the picture just a little bit more confused? | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
Here in Nuneaton the main act nationally is the Conservatives. | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
In 2015 with the general election still up in the air, | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
David Cameron said he knew he had won when bellwether Nuneaton | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
But locally Labour are the only show in town. | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
Last night the Conservatives won three seats from Labour. | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
The swing from red to blue in Nuneaton Bedworth was around 11%. | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
But Labour still controls the council with 25 of the 34 seats. | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
With Labour also keeping control of nearby Coventry and the Tories | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
losing control of Rugby, I sought help from Nuneaton's Conservative MP | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
The Labour Party should be making more gains than they have, | :31:26. | :31:32. | |
they should certainly not have lost any seats at all in a place | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
like Nuneaton and they should have been worrying us in some | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
of our safest seats and increasing their vote share and trying | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
That is one way of looking at it, but it seems the same result can be | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
I do remember when almost everybody in this village worked in the pits. | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
In a place with reminders that this is prime Labour territory, | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
old colliery country, the Labour leader of the council had | :31:57. | :31:59. | |
We made very minor losses, we are very pleased with the results. | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
So you think what happened in Nuneaton is a good result | :32:06. | :32:08. | |
25 out of 34 in the council, that is a very good | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
Did Jeremy Corbyn come up for you on the doorstep? | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
I have to say that the only people who have mentioned Jeremy Corbyn | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
We have had no comment about Jeremy Corbyn whatsoever. | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
I have been on the doorstep, I have been in ballot stations, | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
nobody is mentioning Jeremy Corbyn in Nuneaton. | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
Ultimately, though, if Labour wants to win places like Nuneaton in 2020, | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
whose scalps Labour are offering will matter. | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
Did Jeremy Corbyn come into your mind at all? | :32:45. | :32:46. | |
It might be different with the general election, | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
He comes across as honest and genuine. | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
He is a radical lefty, so it's almost too far left, | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
but then again it is nice to have two-party politics. | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
The Prime Minister is literally getting away with stuff. | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
He can be a bit more tough with his questioning. | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
Nuneaton is fairly typical of these local elections. | :33:14. | :33:15. | |
Here turnout was low and of the people I spoke | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
to who voted, a lot had not, many told me they voted on local | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
issues and that insulates national trends. | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
But in turn that makes judging Labour or Conservative success | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
Results in Nuneaton and the like have not given | :33:30. | :33:37. | |
Corbyn Labour a resounding mandate, nor offered his opponents legitimate | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
This noisy internal row does not look like ending any time soon. | :33:42. | :33:51. | |
I'm joined now by Lord Falconer, Charlie Falconer, | :33:52. | :33:53. | |
Good evening. We are trying to work out whether we should interpret | :33:54. | :34:05. | |
these results as telling as anything interesting about the direction | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
Labour is taking and its leader. Sadiq Khan winning London, is that | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
an endorsement of Jeremy Corbyn, or is that an endorsement of Sadiq | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
Khan? Traditionally in London you have to be a defined, identifiable | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
personality in order to win. Ken Livingstone, Boris Johnson, Sadiq | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
Khan. You cannot win in London if you are simply a machine politician. | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
I think probably the success of Sadiq Khan in London is his | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
personality, plus the fact it is essentially a Labour city in | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
politics. I think it is more to do with Sadiq Khan... And Jeremy | :34:46. | :34:54. | |
Corbyn. That is right. What about the failure in Scotland? One of the | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
things people said was when he Jeremy Corbyn became leader he may | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
be able to lay more with the left wing voters to defected to SNP, but | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
that has not worked. That is not his fault. What happened in Scotland was | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
that from September 2014 there was a detachment of the heartland vote of | :35:17. | :35:22. | |
labour to the SNP and there has been a fundamental shift. It has not come | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
back. It has not come back because September 2014, or the build-up to | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
the referendum, was when it started. The next acceleration was the | :35:36. | :35:42. | |
general election in May, 2015. The process in Scotland is about, I | :35:43. | :35:49. | |
think, anti-Westminster politics with a plausible alternative, namely | :35:50. | :35:57. | |
Scotland first, and a non-Westminster party. The battle in | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
Scotland is about who is the opposition to a party that is, as it | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
were... May be the Conservatives were a clearer opposition than | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
Labour. As time goes on, Labour can regain its position in Scotland if | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
it becomes a plausible national party. Although the Tories have | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
overtaken them because they appeared completely solid on the union, at | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
the end of the day the party that can make a difference in Scotland is | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
the one that can connect Westminster with Scotland and I do not think the | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
Tories will ever get back like that. No real lesson in London that Corbyn | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
is working, no less than that he is failing in Scotland. The English | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
councils, he did quite well in that. Crawley is an example. They were | :36:48. | :36:54. | |
expected to take a pounding. Are you drawing any conclusions there? In | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
terms of what happened in England, indeed the whole country, we ended | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
up ahead of the Tories and we were ahead of our position. Unless you | :37:03. | :37:11. | |
benchmark it against wipe-out, it is terrible for an opposition. I would | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
not accept it was terrible for an opposition. What I would say is the | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
way the public are responding, for all the public, whether you are | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
responding to the Tories are Labour, things are very much in flux. The | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
Tories have gone down. It was significant that David Cameron went | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
to Peter borough where they did not get one extra place as his | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
triumphant place to go to, he was clutching at straws. Tony Blair won | :37:39. | :37:48. | |
2000 seats, you lost seats. Tony Blair took power when we were at the | :37:49. | :37:57. | |
point of going up like that, Corbyn took a position when we were on the | :37:58. | :38:04. | |
way down. How did it reconnect? It is still early days, but you do not | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
want to be paralysed saying, is this going to work or do we need to | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
change tack? When will you decide? You need to have a leadership that | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
is capable of convincing the public that it is not an apologist, for | :38:19. | :38:26. | |
leaks, but is genuine, and also convinces the public that by having | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
such a party it will not destroy the prosperity of the country. It is | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
when you get to that point that you connect. We either party at the | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
moment that is the strongest on the first. If you do not pick up seats | :38:39. | :38:46. | |
in Scotland in 2020, you need to win seats like Canterbury in order to | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
have a majority. You are miles away. I do not know the precise details of | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
Canterbury. One of the things that happened today in Crawley, Exeter, | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
Southampton, we held on in those places. But you need to win 100 | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
seats in England. There is a process at the moment as far as the public | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
is concerned of looking across the political firmament and making | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
decisions. I do not think remotely that you could say either party was | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
in a position where the next election is fixed. | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
It's been a difficult day for pundits with such mixed results. | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
No party has been blown to oblivion, no knock-out winners either. | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
I'm with the New Statesman's Stephen Bush, and Isabel | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
I think we should start on Labour. Stephen, what do you think either | :39:33. | :39:44. | |
lessons you can pick up about the leadership? We know Jeremy Corbyn | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
does very well in places where voters are diverse, well educated | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
and young. He does well in a young city like London. It looks like | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
Labour will win Salford and Liverpool and Bristol may Orrell -- | :39:59. | :40:08. | |
Mayers. The question is whether or not they can find a way of appealing | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
not just to the future, but to the present and at the moment it looks | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
like they are not doing it. You did not think the scores in England were | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
very good for them at the end of the day. They were ahead of the Tories | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
on vote share. Jeremy Corbyn has done a very good job of his | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
expectation management, but it is a big flashing light warning sign for | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
the opposition to lose seats in mid-term. That has not happened | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
since 1985, which was the prelude to a landslide defeat for Labour and | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
there is no reason to suggest that will again. We are still waiting for | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
the evidence that Jeremy Corbyn is leading a popular movement that is | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
galvanising support from people who are not normally excited by | :40:55. | :41:01. | |
politics. It is the opposite spectrum, but it is like Donald | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
Trump invigorating new voters. It makes it more difficult for him to | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
claim that he is taking the Labour Party forward and he has to make | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
arguments that suggest he will defy the laws of physics, in the same way | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
Ed Miliband said he had to even though he was behind in the | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
leadership and the economy in the general. Election For Jeremy Corbyn | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
not to be making gains when an opposition party should be making | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
gains, makes it much more harder for him to say that it is conforming to | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
conventional politics. It is hard to see a route out of leadership for | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
Jeremy Corbyn at this point. It is hard for his opponents to knock him | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
aside. Yes because the Labour membership has always had a strong | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
urge for unity. If you look at that losing votes in four different | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
places, I do not think the average member thinks there is anyone who | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
can achieve that task, so they might as well stick with a guy who shares | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
their values and go down in style. Where do you think the Conservatives | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
are left at the end of this? They are not crying. They must be sighing | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
with relief because they have had a terrible couple of months ever since | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
the budget on the number of policies they have had to make a U-turn on, | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
including today on the academies which they sneaked out when | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
everybody was writing about Labour. For them not to lose seats is a huge | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
relief, but the London result has not been good for them and it has | :42:35. | :42:41. | |
tested their campaigning instincts. They are conceding that London is | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
not the place for them, which is not a great place to be if you are a | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
government. There are seven or 8 million people in the country. It | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
may be a test of negative campaigning, but it is also a test | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
of whether you can have a candidate who does not look like he wants to | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
win in London. People come to London from all over the world to realise | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
their dreams. If we have somebody running for political office who is | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
not driven, that does not go down well in a city where everyone works | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
long hours. I am not suggesting Ruth Davidson for leader of the | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
Conservative Party, although lots of people have, but that she sure what | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
the new leader of the Conservative Party could look like and what the | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
party could unite around? Yes, a happy warrior, somebody who has not | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
gone to a proportional, somebody who people say, she seems nice. That is | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
that post-Brexit future, somebody in the recent Davidson mould. It is all | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
about brand Ruth, so if you have got somebody who can build something | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
based on their own name, that could work quite well, like Boris. I said | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
it was another nail in the coffin for the 2-party system. It is like a | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
patchwork. It is difficult for Labour to win in different parts of | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
the UK with one message. It has got different challenges in different | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
parts. Can Jeremy Corbyn really need the party with one united message? | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
Even if 2-party politics is not dead, one party cannot speak with | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
the same voice around the country any more. It is complicated. Thank | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
That's it, at the end of a long election process. | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
And we go through the whole voting thing again in seven weeks. | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
That's it from Newsnight, now for Artsnight. | :44:34. | :44:34. | |
David Baddiel travels to New York to ask whether Thomas Carlisle's | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
theory that Great Men shape the main narrative of history has | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
This programme contains some strong language | :44:42. | :44:48. | |
the thinker Thomas Carlyle came up with the great man theory - | :44:49. | :44:53. |