05/05/2016 Newsnight


05/05/2016

With Kirsty Wark. The latest from the local elections as polls close across UK. The final part of the EU film trilogy. And the sacked government mental health chief speaks out.


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Transcript


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Political excitement across Britain tonight with counting underway

:00:00.:00:00.

But exclusively on Newsnight, more trouble for Jeremy Corbyn

:00:07.:00:17.

as one of the MPs who nominated him says Labour is going backwards

:00:18.:00:21.

and the leader's inner team is dividing the party.

:00:22.:00:23.

Zac, do you feel comfortable with the prominence of race in this

:00:24.:00:34.

campaign? I'm not doing interviews at this minute. But do you feel

:00:35.:00:38.

comfortable? Very comfortable with this campaign.

:00:39.:00:40.

The Conservative Party's top man in London tells us Zac Goldsmith's

:00:41.:00:43.

controversial campaign for London Mayor has

:00:44.:00:45.

Is it ever possible to please everybody in a trading union?

:00:46.:01:00.

The last in our trilogy on what became of the European Union dream.

:01:01.:01:03.

We need to start thinking about mental health from birth and giving

:01:04.:01:14.

children the tools they need to develop high self-esteem.

:01:15.:01:16.

She was the government's first ever mental health champion for schools.

:01:17.:01:19.

Now her job has been axed after she talked to head

:01:20.:01:21.

teachers about the pressure on today's schoolchildren.

:01:22.:01:23.

Scottish Parliamentary elections, English and Welsh local elections,

:01:24.:01:37.

It's been a cornucopia, a feast of politics, and big eruptions too,

:01:38.:01:49.

not least Labour's problems with anti-semitism, and accusations

:01:50.:01:53.

by Zac Goldsmith that his Labour opponent who's most like to be

:01:54.:01:56.

the new London mayor, gave oxygen to extremists.

:01:57.:01:57.

Before we embark on any post poll analysis, here's

:01:58.:02:00.

It's great to be here in Richmond, and this is where it

:02:01.:02:04.

all started for Zac, who would be an outstanding Mayor of London.

:02:05.:02:09.

We're looking to gain seats where we can.

:02:10.:02:12.

I'm asking people to elect an SNP government with me as First Minister

:02:13.:02:16.

so that we can invest record sums in our health service.

:02:17.:02:19.

I'm in this because I believe in tackling poverty and inequality.

:02:20.:02:22.

It's what drives me out of my bed every single day.

:02:23.:02:29.

More homes, better transport, safer streets.

:02:30.:02:36.

More homes, better transport, safer streets.

:02:37.:02:41.

I hope Londoners choose hope over fear.

:02:42.:02:42.

My campaign has been overwhelmingly positive.

:02:43.:02:44.

So what are you saying about Sadiq Khan?

:02:45.:02:46.

I have made it very clear that I have never suggested that

:02:47.:02:50.

Sadiq Khan is an extremist in any way.

:02:51.:02:51.

I'm a Bollywood fan, so anything with a Bollywood

:02:52.:02:56.

Do you have a favourite actor or a favourite Bollywood film?

:02:57.:03:02.

That was Hitler's policy when he first came to power.

:03:03.:03:10.

I think you've lost that Mr Livingstone.

:03:11.:03:13.

Is it good politics to bring up Adolf Hitler?

:03:14.:03:15.

Come on everybody, let's head down the...

:03:16.:03:30.

Emily is in the election results studio.

:03:31.:03:39.

Emily. A campaign not short of drama and we should get more in a few

:03:40.:03:48.

moments time, this screen will light up as results start pouring in, and

:03:49.:03:53.

we will see how the political landscape is changing since that

:03:54.:03:58.

extraordinary night in 2015. It is impossible to stress enough that

:03:59.:04:01.

this is not one British election, it is a series of votes that could

:04:02.:04:05.

yield different results in different places. If you see labour struggling

:04:06.:04:09.

in Scotland, they could still have a good night in Wales, or if the

:04:10.:04:13.

Tories go backwards in Wales they could still pick up seats in

:04:14.:04:18.

England. Some results will be a referendum on party leaders old and

:04:19.:04:22.

new, but not all. When we start to look at the direction of travel,

:04:23.:04:25.

what is happening to the share of the vote, you will want to look out

:04:26.:04:30.

for Ukip in Wales perhaps or who comes second in Scotland, whether

:04:31.:04:33.

the Lib Dems show any signs of recovery. I'll show you some of the

:04:34.:04:36.

things we are looking out for, some key battles. Trafford, for example,

:04:37.:04:41.

controlled right now by the Conservatives. Can they hang on in

:04:42.:04:47.

one of their only big metropolitan councils in the north? We'll see

:04:48.:04:50.

what happens there. Same sort of battle in Crawley. Now, this is

:04:51.:04:57.

Labour's handful of Southern California is -- handful of Southern

:04:58.:05:08.

Council. And watch out for Dudley, will Ukip start to come through and

:05:09.:05:12.

through the result? We may even get the start of results in for

:05:13.:05:15.

somewhere like Sunderland or Newcastle, Sunderland comes quickly,

:05:16.:05:19.

if we do I'll bring them to you as soon is we get them here. Right now

:05:20.:05:23.

we will talk to our new political editor, thrown in at the deep end,

:05:24.:05:28.

that's how we like to do things. Nick, some breaking news? That's

:05:29.:05:32.

right, Sky News have broken the news that ad Andy Burnham is giving

:05:33.:05:39.

serious consideration to standing for the new post of mayor of greater

:05:40.:05:43.

Manchester. The BBC have confirmed that he is giving it very serious

:05:44.:05:51.

consideration, and that he has been approached. Why is he doing this?

:05:52.:05:55.

The personal reason is he would say, he tried to stand for the leadership

:05:56.:05:59.

twice, it did not quite work out, maybe you should do something new.

:06:00.:06:04.

There is also a political reason. Andy Burnham is saying that Labour,

:06:05.:06:09.

which is going to do really badly in Scotland tonight, made a terrible

:06:10.:06:12.

mistake when the Scottish parliament was founded in 1999, only one big

:06:13.:06:17.

beast went there, now we've got these elected mayors across England

:06:18.:06:20.

and he's saying we need a big beast doing it. It sounds very positive

:06:21.:06:24.

but what would be the knock-on for Jeremy Corbyn? He would be elected

:06:25.:06:31.

next year, 2017, is three years away from surely when he will be Home

:06:32.:06:35.

Secretary. Andy Burnham knows that there will probably not be a Labour

:06:36.:06:39.

Home Secretary in 2020, so look for pastures new. What the Corbyn camp

:06:40.:06:43.

is saying to mag is that they could face but no official party has faced

:06:44.:06:49.

outside a general election year since 1985 which is a net loss of

:06:50.:06:52.

seats. They are saying that's not a crisis because you should be looking

:06:53.:06:57.

not when these last seats were 14 2012 but what happened in the local

:06:58.:07:00.

elections last year when Labour just got 29%. Other people in the Labour

:07:01.:07:05.

Party are saying that's not good enough and the jungle drums are

:07:06.:07:08.

beginning to beat and I think we are going to find people standing up. If

:07:09.:07:12.

Sadiq Khan wins in London he is going to say he won by being

:07:13.:07:17.

pro-business and reaching out across the political spectrum. Give us a

:07:18.:07:20.

sense of the mood in that party and in all parties right now. There is a

:07:21.:07:25.

message in terms of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership coming out of the Corbyn

:07:26.:07:29.

camp. They have said to me, if there is a coup, bring it on, because

:07:30.:07:34.

Jeremy Corbyn will be on the ballot, Jeremy Corbyn will win, and more

:07:35.:07:37.

than that he will do even better than he did last year. Their message

:07:38.:07:43.

is, you want to do it, bring it on. What is interesting is that barring

:07:44.:07:47.

a big accident tonight, and that big accident would have to be Sadiq Khan

:07:48.:07:51.

not winning in London, barring that big accident I do not believe that

:07:52.:07:55.

we are going to be seen immediately a leadership challenge, but what we

:07:56.:08:00.

are going to see is new faces raising concerns about his

:08:01.:08:03.

leadership, and it's interesting. We'll be hearing soon on Newsnight,

:08:04.:08:06.

Kirsty will be interviewing me or call oh, one of the Labour MPs who

:08:07.:08:12.

nominated but didn't back Jeremy Corbyn last you. He's going to be

:08:13.:08:17.

raising concerns about the direction of the party under Jeremy Corbyn's

:08:18.:08:23.

leadership. Fascinating. We'll get the first results in overnight from

:08:24.:08:26.

the north of England, Scotland, Wales. We will not get that may oral

:08:27.:08:29.

result until tomorrow evening possibly. You have interviews to do,

:08:30.:08:33.

Kirsty, back to you. I'm joined by Neil Coyle whose

:08:34.:08:36.

nomination of Jeremy Corbyn last year ensured his name would be

:08:37.:08:47.

on the ballot. As we're heard from Nick,

:08:48.:08:53.

he's now unhappy. What would be a good night and what

:08:54.:09:01.

would be a bad night? At this stage, after six years of Tory led

:09:02.:09:04.

government we should not be losing seats. If the Labour Party is going

:09:05.:09:08.

to be back in government where I wanted to be an Labour members

:09:09.:09:13.

wanted to be, we need to be winning, not losing anything this evening. I

:09:14.:09:18.

very much hope the activists, campaigners and supporters who have

:09:19.:09:21.

been out all day today and for weeks and months this year, I hope the

:09:22.:09:25.

results to come through and it isn't as bad a picture as is being

:09:26.:09:31.

projected. You heard Nick saying he looks to you as somebody now coming

:09:32.:09:35.

out and voicing concerns about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership and the

:09:36.:09:40.

group around him in that leadership. What do you think the problem is?

:09:41.:09:47.

Well, the problem for me is that, I won in last year in Bermondsey and

:09:48.:09:50.

Southwark, constituency that hadn't had a Labour MP for more than three

:09:51.:09:53.

decades, and a constituency that very much needs a Labour government.

:09:54.:09:58.

Problem as we seem to be seen again tonight, and I hope it is not

:09:59.:10:02.

accurate, that we are moving further away from government. I think that

:10:03.:10:06.

is because we seem to be fixated on some issues that are peripheral, and

:10:07.:10:11.

we seem to have a team that is not projecting either unity within the

:10:12.:10:16.

party or a vision, and policies that the voters want us to see. When I'm

:10:17.:10:20.

out knocking on doors in Bermondsey they need to know what our policies

:10:21.:10:25.

are on housing and education. And too often all they seem to be

:10:26.:10:29.

hearing is anti-Tory, not pro-labour. Choose Labour because we

:10:30.:10:33.

will have a better education system. Is this coming out of the inner

:10:34.:10:37.

circle, and where do you lay the blame for this? There is a core team

:10:38.:10:43.

that seem unable to get out of the mindset that is, they are out to get

:10:44.:10:47.

us. Look at what Nick was saying about, if there is a coup. This is

:10:48.:10:51.

not about a coup, I am here because I want a Labour Prime Minister and a

:10:52.:10:55.

Labour government. Tonight is results look like they will send us

:10:56.:11:03.

back from that. You say you are backpedalling. Do you have people in

:11:04.:11:06.

mind that are too close to Jeremy Corbyn and giving him the wrong idea

:11:07.:11:11.

is? It is not about being too close to Jeremy Corbyn. There are people

:11:12.:11:14.

that share a particular creed in the party but it is about not having

:11:15.:11:19.

enough diversity in that team. Then need to be people in that team that

:11:20.:11:23.

do not share one vision on unilateralism or whatever it might

:11:24.:11:27.

be. We need people there to say what the platform has to be on housing

:11:28.:11:32.

for example. And who are able to say we cannot just have an anti-Tory and

:11:33.:11:36.

a divisive agenda that is about, we are not for the rich, we are only

:11:37.:11:41.

for a certain group. Are there more people like you that will be coming

:11:42.:11:45.

out in the coming days and weeks? I don't know. I'm hearing from

:11:46.:11:49.

colleagues, MPs and councillors across the country who are saying

:11:50.:11:53.

how bad it is in certain areas. I think there will be a frustration.

:11:54.:11:58.

There is no one in the Labour Party who doesn't want a Labour

:11:59.:12:01.

government. I think the way to get to a Labour government is to be

:12:02.:12:06.

honest, robust, and look at, why have we fallen backwards and not on

:12:07.:12:11.

forwards now? You nominated Jeremy but you didn't vote for him, you

:12:12.:12:17.

voted for Yvette Cooper. If there is an attempt at a coup, you have all

:12:18.:12:23.

the members falling behind him. You put him there and he is there to

:12:24.:12:28.

stay, do you regret that? Well I nominated Jeremy because I wanted to

:12:29.:12:34.

broadened the debate, and unfortunately it has been fixated on

:12:35.:12:37.

peripheral issues that are not related to the day-to-day, the doors

:12:38.:12:42.

I knock on in Bermondsey. I regret the fact that we seem to be moving

:12:43.:12:47.

back beyond Ed Miliband's first year as Labour leader which led to a

:12:48.:12:51.

general election defeat. If we fallen back on that I can't do

:12:52.:12:54.

anything but regret that nomination and that's a very sad position to

:12:55.:12:58.

be. There is still time to turn that around. We need unity in the team

:12:59.:13:02.

and we need to be building the policy platform that brings voters

:13:03.:13:05.

back to Labour. Thank you very much indeed.

:13:06.:13:14.

As we heard from Neil Colye, Labour's leader's facing a lot

:13:15.:13:17.

of challenges right now not least the row over anti semitism in the

:13:18.:13:20.

Has this damaged your leadership? Since Jeremy Corbyn announced

:13:21.:13:28.

Labour's enquiry into anti-Semitism at least six more party members have

:13:29.:13:33.

been suspended. This is what we know and it's not much. The enquiry will

:13:34.:13:38.

be chaired by Shami Chakrabarti. The former director of liberty. The

:13:39.:13:45.

deputy chair is Professor David Feldman, director of the Pears

:13:46.:13:47.

Institute for the Study of Anti-Semitism. They will report back

:13:48.:13:52.

within two months. Less than a week in, questions are being raised about

:13:53.:13:56.

Professor Feldman and whether he is truly independent. Professor Feldman

:13:57.:13:59.

is a signatory to a group called Independent Jewish voices. On Sunday

:14:00.:14:04.

it released a statement saying that while there had been comments which

:14:05.:14:08.

had clearly crossed the line of anti-Semitism, it added...

:14:09.:14:15.

Professor Feldman referred to comments he made in the Jewish

:14:16.:14:41.

Chronicle where he said the statement couldn't possibly reflect

:14:42.:14:43.

the views of every single Independent Jewish voices and

:14:44.:14:45.

signature in. is his previous published work on

:14:46.:15:12.

what does and doesn't constitute anti-Semitism. My understanding that

:15:13.:15:16.

in a previous report of Professor Feldman has ruled out the

:15:17.:15:22.

possibility of the notion that equating the actions of the state of

:15:23.:15:26.

Israel with those of Nazi Germany, who led the systematic orchestrated

:15:27.:15:32.

mass genocide of 6 million Jews and many millions of others can ever be

:15:33.:15:37.

anti-Semitic. As somebody who has prejudged this to the extent that a

:15:38.:15:40.

set of troops and narratives that the majority of Jewish people in

:15:41.:15:43.

this country today fined for apartment, offensive and certainly

:15:44.:15:48.

to have anti-Semitic impact doesn't seem to me somebody who will inspire

:15:49.:15:52.

the confidence of the Jewish community in terms of the job he has

:15:53.:15:57.

been asked to do. Several senior Labour Party members have expressed

:15:58.:16:00.

concern at how this whole situation has been handled by the leadership.

:16:01.:16:06.

And inquiry of this sort are about giving reassurance, should consult

:16:07.:16:11.

with mainstream Jewish community organisations. It should think

:16:12.:16:14.

carefully about who is involved in it. And there should be careful

:16:15.:16:19.

thought about whether it should be a leader 's enquiry or a Labour Party

:16:20.:16:24.

inquiry. Its point of reference should be carefully thought out.

:16:25.:16:27.

Newsnight understands there are some in the Labour leadership your

:16:28.:16:31.

knowledge decisions about this enquiry into anti-Semitism were made

:16:32.:16:35.

in haste. But they add they would have faced criticism whoever they

:16:36.:16:38.

had appointed. It is significant that today, polling day, both Shami

:16:39.:16:44.

Chakrabarti and those at the top of the party have met with Jewish

:16:45.:16:49.

groups to try to reassure them. Some Labour members are now pushing for

:16:50.:16:52.

more expertise to be added to the inquiry panel. But it's still too

:16:53.:16:58.

early to know whether the party handling of allegations of

:16:59.:17:00.

anti-Semitism will have any impact on votes. A Labour Party

:17:01.:17:05.

spokesperson gave us this statement. Professor David Feldman will be vice

:17:06.:17:15.

chair of the inquiry set up by Jeremy Corbyn. The inquiry and

:17:16.:17:19.

report will be led by Shami Chakrabarti, who has already begun

:17:20.:17:22.

work into ensuring the inquiry will be rigorous, fairer and

:17:23.:17:27.

representative. Jeremy Corbyn isn't the only embattled senior

:17:28.:17:27.

Jeremy Corbyn's not the only embattled senior politician.

:17:28.:17:34.

Zac Goldsmith's campaign to be be Conservative London mayor drew

:17:35.:17:36.

criticism for dog whistle politics when he accused his Labour opponent

:17:37.:17:39.

Siddiq Khan of sharing a platform with terrorist sympathisers

:17:40.:17:41.

Earlier this week Newsnight's Secunder Kermani caught up

:17:42.:17:44.

with Zac Goldsmith and put some of the charges to him.

:17:45.:17:47.

Zac, do you feel comfortable with the prominence of race in this

:17:48.:17:50.

No, I'm not doing any interviews at the moment,

:17:51.:17:53.

No, but do you feel comfortable or not?

:17:54.:17:56.

We're very comfortable with the campaign, it's

:17:57.:17:58.

Zac, everyone is saying this isn't you, do you regret taking

:17:59.:18:03.

on Lynton Crosby's firm to run your campaign?

:18:04.:18:04.

Well I'm joined now by the leader of the Conservative group

:18:05.:18:10.

on the Greater London Assembly, Andrew Boff.

:18:11.:18:12.

Good evening, what do you make of Zac Goldsmith's campaign? I think it

:18:13.:18:18.

was mostly good but I was really troubled by one particular aspect of

:18:19.:18:24.

it. That's Wednesday, when he started to equate people of

:18:25.:18:28.

conservative religious views with sympathising with terrorism. That

:18:29.:18:31.

sent a message out to many of the communities in London that is very

:18:32.:18:39.

difficult to justify. Was it dog whistle politics? I don't think it

:18:40.:18:43.

was dog whistle, you can't hear dog whistle, everybody could hear this.

:18:44.:18:47.

It was effectively saying people of conservative religious views are not

:18:48.:18:49.

to be trusted and you shouldn't share a platform with them, that's

:18:50.:18:54.

outrageous. They seemed to forget 24 team wasn't a great year for the

:18:55.:18:57.

Conservative Party in London, one of the few boroughs that swung to us

:18:58.:19:00.

was in Newark where the Conservatives there actively engaged

:19:01.:19:06.

with the Muslim community. Now those bridges that have been built have

:19:07.:19:10.

been... A few of them have been blown up by this campaign. As

:19:11.:19:15.

serious as that? You think they've done lasting damage? I think it has

:19:16.:19:19.

and a lot of us on the ground will have to spend a lot of time on

:19:20.:19:21.

trying to re-establish those links. He received advice and he was wrong

:19:22.:19:29.

to accept the advice, from whoever the campaign people were. He wasn't

:19:30.:19:31.

orchestrating who was orchestrating a campaign if

:19:32.:19:37.

not that Goldsmith himself? It's something I intend to ask after the

:19:38.:19:42.

election result, but I don't want us to do this in London again, it's

:19:43.:19:48.

done real damage. People might say you are saying that because you went

:19:49.:19:52.

for the nomination and didn't get it... They can say what they like

:19:53.:19:57.

really, can't they? I've been loyal to Zac all the way three, I think

:19:58.:20:01.

he's an excellent candid and what really hurts me is I don't think

:20:02.:20:04.

this sounds like authentic Zac Goldsmith, this kind of political I

:20:05.:20:11.

didn't think was Zac, it doesn't have his stamp on it. He said in an

:20:12.:20:15.

interview in the Guardian, very briefly he said he really wasn't a

:20:16.:20:22.

normal campaign. It's not enjoyable. -- it wasn't a normal campaign. Do

:20:23.:20:26.

you think he was a puppet? I think there was so much we could have

:20:27.:20:30.

attacked Sadiq Khan four, his unrealistic economic policy,

:20:31.:20:32.

destruction of investment if he brings in his housing policies. The

:20:33.:20:39.

threat to step free access on transport network if you freezes

:20:40.:20:42.

fares. All of these things are great things that we could have attacked

:20:43.:20:45.

and we chose to use this particular policy mean as the centre of the

:20:46.:20:53.

campaign, it was ridiculous. You say it's blown up a lot of ridges. If

:20:54.:20:56.

it's going to damage a campaign it won't just be Zac Goldsmith. Do you

:20:57.:21:03.

worry if other considered candidates standing for council? I believe it

:21:04.:21:06.

will affect Conservatives at the sharp end especially in areas with a

:21:07.:21:11.

high Muslim publishing. -- population. We've taken a couple of

:21:12.:21:16.

steps back during the period of this campaign. Two other people in the

:21:17.:21:21.

party share the concerns you have? Yes, I'm not alone. Obviously we

:21:22.:21:25.

don't shout about it during the campaign, we are loyal

:21:26.:21:27.

Conservatives, we hit the streets, campaign for the Conservatives. Were

:21:28.:21:30.

you getting backlash on the doorstep? Yes. If you don't bring it

:21:31.:21:35.

up during the campaign, what will happen now? I did bring it up to Zac

:21:36.:21:41.

's team during the campaign, I mentioned I thought it was a mistake

:21:42.:21:46.

for future integration of London. You know, this is... If you are a

:21:47.:21:51.

London politician this is just a bizarre, bizarre thing to do. And

:21:52.:21:55.

the Conservative Party will suffer, you were saying? I believe so. We're

:21:56.:21:59.

going to make sure the Conservative Party doesn't suffer.

:22:00.:22:03.

As soon as one vote is over along comes another one...

:22:04.:22:05.

Ahead of the EU referendum our final film in Gabriel Gatehouse's

:22:06.:22:08.

trilogy looking at the EU from the perspective

:22:09.:22:10.

He's been touring continental Europe seeing whether the reality has

:22:11.:22:13.

matched the original post war dream, what has suceeded beyond

:22:14.:22:16.

the founding father's dreams, and what has fallen short

:22:17.:22:18.

of their grand vision of a united and prosperous Europe.

:22:19.:22:28.

Out of the ruins of war arose a vision of Europe.

:22:29.:22:39.

The founding fathers dreamt of ever closer union.

:22:40.:22:45.

All governments wanted to remain half free.

:22:46.:22:47.

And so, we've come to the third and final part in our series.

:22:48.:23:03.

In this chapter, we're going to focus on the

:23:04.:23:05.

Has monetary union furthered those original

:23:06.:23:08.

aims of the founders of the

:23:09.:23:10.

Europe was built on the promise of a shared prosperity.

:23:11.:23:30.

That was the deal, that was the dream.

:23:31.:23:37.

This is the reality of life in Greece today.

:23:38.:23:41.

Naoussa, 500 kilometres north of Athens, was once

:23:42.:23:43.

When the factories began to fail in the

:23:44.:23:56.

1990s, people got by on a mixture of credit and government subsidies.

:23:57.:23:59.

networks are strong, the rise of the bread queue

:24:00.:24:14.

is a sign that things have gone very wrong indeed.

:24:15.:24:21.

Tasos lost his job as a casual labourer

:24:22.:24:26.

They have an infant daughter and they can't

:24:27.:24:30.

Almost every day we listen to the news, and they always

:24:31.:24:36.

Nearly half the residents of this town are unemployed.

:24:37.:24:49.

And these are the people who've been hit hardest.

:24:50.:24:52.

Many blame their own leaders for the economic mess,

:24:53.:24:59.

This austerity, these measures, they are so cruel.

:25:00.:25:07.

Last year they voted overwhelmingly against austerity.

:25:08.:25:21.

Faith in the European project is evaporating,

:25:22.:25:30.

but many fear that life outside the euro would be even

:25:31.:25:32.

So it came to pass that a radical left-wing government

:25:33.:25:45.

democratically elected on a promise to keep national asset in state

:25:46.:25:49.

hands is selling off Piraeus, the largest

:25:50.:25:51.

port in the country, to

:25:52.:25:54.

The monster in this cautionary tale is the so-called

:25:55.:26:04.

troika, the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the IMF.

:26:05.:26:09.

The moral of the story, if you want to be part

:26:10.:26:12.

of a club, you have to

:26:13.:26:14.

In the cradle of democracy, the will of the people has been trumped by

:26:15.:26:57.

the will of Brussels. The idea of a single currency was to promote

:26:58.:27:00.

closer cooperation to the benefit of all. But there's a problem. From the

:27:01.:27:07.

very beginning there were questions. Can you have monetary union without

:27:08.:27:11.

having political union as well? Can you have a single currency and lots

:27:12.:27:16.

of different economic policies? What Greece shows us is that you can't.

:27:17.:27:24.

Earlier in this seaweed we met George Bertrand, former chief of

:27:25.:27:28.

staff to one of the founding fathers of the EU. Like many true believers,

:27:29.:27:34.

his solution to this economic conundrum is closer union.

:27:35.:27:39.

Kretschmer early in this series. At the time it was discussed I was

:27:40.:27:51.

very strongly... We had a meeting... He said, we have to have that in

:27:52.:27:59.

common. We have common currency. We have the common economy policy. And

:28:00.:28:05.

we don't have any political responsibility to evolve the policy,

:28:06.:28:09.

to manage it and to control it. The single currency was supposed to

:28:10.:28:23.

synchronise economies. But Europe's members aren't all dancing to the

:28:24.:28:30.

same June. -- tune. This is Maastricht, the place where the euro

:28:31.:28:36.

was born. It was once an innocuous provincial Dutch town. Until, that

:28:37.:28:44.

is, they signed a treaty here. Note to the left, 360. The document so

:28:45.:28:51.

divisive it spit parties and governments tottered. Maastricht has

:28:52.:28:54.

come to embody Britain's fractious relationship with Europe.

:28:55.:29:00.

Maastricht isn't universally synonymous with nightmare, with

:29:01.:29:05.

strife. Elsewhere the significance of this city is it is the place

:29:06.:29:10.

where a community became a union, wet European leaders took several

:29:11.:29:16.

steps towards that dream of a federal Europe.

:29:17.:29:22.

We go in search of the document, which is housed in a sort of modern

:29:23.:29:27.

castle. Apparently surrounded by a moat.

:29:28.:29:39.

Eric Lemmons is the curator, the man who guards the treaty. For

:29:40.:29:47.

this is it. It's a copy, not the original. Maybe after the Rome

:29:48.:29:55.

Treaty the most important treaty signed between the European

:29:56.:30:00.

countries. We persuade them to open up the Cabinet. So we can leave

:30:01.:30:07.

through the treaty for ourselves. This is the signatures page. We've

:30:08.:30:12.

got Denmark... The first signature page. Portugal and the United

:30:13.:30:16.

Kingdom. These famous British opt outs, that is the protocol. They are

:30:17.:30:20.

all in here somewhere. How significant is this document? On a

:30:21.:30:28.

macro this treaty? Very significant. The European Union was founded on

:30:29.:30:32.

this treaty and because of the common European currency, which was

:30:33.:30:35.

also established by this treaty. Yeah.

:30:36.:30:47.

In Germany they have a single word that describes their post-war

:30:48.:30:56.

resurrection. Come to the Porsche factory in Stuttgart and see for

:30:57.:31:01.

yourself. But there's more to this economic miracle than efficiency

:31:02.:31:05.

alone. Germany has also been the clear winner from the euro. The

:31:06.:31:10.

crisis in the Eurozone in Greece and elsewhere has kept the euro week.

:31:11.:31:15.

And that is good for Germany's export driven economy. Now, it may

:31:16.:31:20.

seem a little unfair to take the slick production lines of the

:31:21.:31:24.

Porsche factory as your comparison for the rest of European

:31:25.:31:29.

manufacturing. But in fact this place is emblematic of Germany's

:31:30.:31:33.

success. What monetary union has done is it has favoured German

:31:34.:31:37.

exports, and that in turn has helped this country come out on top. The

:31:38.:31:43.

workers at Porsche may celebrate their stable, well-paid jobs. But

:31:44.:31:47.

they are also wary of Germany's growing economic dominance. Spain or

:31:48.:31:58.

Portugal, no chance against a big industrial republic like Germany.

:31:59.:32:01.

There is a realisation that German success depends on the survival of

:32:02.:32:08.

the union. Yeah, why did Germany bailout Greece? It is because all

:32:09.:32:14.

are connected somehow to each other. And if one goes then the whole

:32:15.:32:23.

system is collapsing. Here is a confident country, and one that

:32:24.:32:28.

mostly believes in the European project. They are frustrated with

:32:29.:32:31.

those who just don't seem to get it. Now, hold on a minute. Whatever else

:32:32.:33:09.

the Germans are good at, we are the ones that make the jokes.

:33:10.:33:24.

When we meet, we have a little moment, are heart-to-heart from one

:33:25.:33:32.

evening show to another. Who watches television in the morning? I have no

:33:33.:33:37.

idea. People who need help. Many of his jokes seem to revolve around

:33:38.:33:45.

sausage. But he uses wurst to make serious points, about Germany's

:33:46.:33:49.

unease as its role as leader in the economic and migrant crises. In

:33:50.:33:58.

Germany there is an expression to do with wurst, it means mingling along

:33:59.:34:03.

and seeing what happens. Can we continue like that? Can we continue

:34:04.:34:08.

to sausage our way through Europe? I invented a whole new expression.

:34:09.:34:15.

Well, it worked for the last five or six years. Not so sure if it is

:34:16.:34:19.

really the master plan for the next years. But one thing you can be

:34:20.:34:23.

sure, there will never be at German government which will say, OK, now

:34:24.:34:28.

we really take the lead. If you lead the way and the rest follows and it

:34:29.:34:32.

doesn't work, they hate you for the rest of your life. Even we want to

:34:33.:34:36.

be loved. That's the sad truth. Even the Germans want to be liked. It's

:34:37.:34:44.

been more than 65 years since Europe set out upon a journey that has led

:34:45.:34:48.

to today's complex union of 28 member states. But from the very

:34:49.:34:57.

beginning the founding fathers identified one country as key to the

:34:58.:35:03.

European project. We wanted to give Germany a path to recovery,

:35:04.:35:05.

sovereignty, with us, not against us. Making sure that the German

:35:06.:35:13.

recovery would not become a threat. But an asset. This is what happened.

:35:14.:35:19.

It just happened that the most powerful country in Europe believes

:35:20.:35:27.

in Europe, the European dream. And so we are back where we were at the

:35:28.:35:33.

beginning of our series. In this German town overlooking the Rhine

:35:34.:35:36.

into France. Whatever you think about the post-war European project,

:35:37.:35:40.

its greatest achievement surely is this, that it does now seem

:35:41.:35:46.

inconceivable for any member of the union to take up arms against

:35:47.:35:50.

another. If the European dream is peace then the EU has succeeded. But

:35:51.:35:58.

as Europe struggles to find common responses to the crises of the

:35:59.:36:05.

21st-century, it's clear: the EU is today about more than peace. The

:36:06.:36:11.

question is, how much more? That's the issue that now provides this

:36:12.:36:14.

continent. When the very first mental health

:36:15.:36:19.

champion for schools in England was appointed by the government

:36:20.:36:23.

last summer, Natasha Devon's new role was announced

:36:24.:36:25.

with great fanfare. The appointment was part of a wider

:36:26.:36:28.

government initiative to improve children and young people's mental

:36:29.:36:33.

health over the next five years - including the way services

:36:34.:36:38.

work with schools. But then last week in a speech

:36:39.:36:40.

to the Headmasters' and Headmistresses conference

:36:41.:36:43.

Natasha Devon said this about testing of school

:36:44.:36:46.

children in schools: At one end of the scale we've got

:36:47.:36:48.

four-year-olds being tested. At the other end of

:36:49.:36:53.

the scale we've got teenagers leaving school,

:36:54.:36:55.

facing the prospect of leaving university with record

:36:56.:37:01.

amounts of debt. Anxiety is the fastest-growing

:37:02.:37:03.

illness in under 21s. She was told on Tuesday

:37:04.:37:07.

by the Department for Education Good evening. What are your

:37:08.:37:23.

substantive concerns about child mental health? My concern is that we

:37:24.:37:31.

know that the person's socio- economic circumstances affect their

:37:32.:37:35.

mental health. We know that looked after children, half of them will

:37:36.:37:40.

leave care exhibiting symptoms of mental illness compared with one in

:37:41.:37:44.

ten in the wider population. My concern is that the government is

:37:45.:37:47.

giving with one hand, and taking away with another. I go into three

:37:48.:37:52.

schools are weak, talk with about 500 teenagers, and they tell me that

:37:53.:37:56.

things like exam stress or concerns about career prospects when they

:37:57.:38:00.

leave school, are affecting them until health. Until we address those

:38:01.:38:05.

root causes, we can have all the services in the world, but we will

:38:06.:38:09.

not get to the root of the issue. When you made the speech to the

:38:10.:38:11.

headteachers, did the government know what you were going to say, the

:38:12.:38:17.

gist of it? No. Well, when I was first offered this role in August

:38:18.:38:20.

last year I enquired as to whether there would be any payment for the

:38:21.:38:23.

role, it is a very high profile role. I was told that no, they

:38:24.:38:29.

couldn't even pay my expenses because it was very important that I

:38:30.:38:33.

remained independent and objective. So I took them at their word and I

:38:34.:38:37.

did remain independent and objective, and I wouldn't have taken

:38:38.:38:41.

the role if that hadn't been on the table. We are now told that this new

:38:42.:38:44.

mental health champion is going to be introduced which will render my

:38:45.:38:47.

role obsolete, but that it will be role. There are two con versions you

:38:48.:38:52.

can come to. Either I was lied to and they were trying to get the

:38:53.:38:56.

benefit of my expertise without paying me, or this new mental health

:38:57.:38:59.

champion will be paid effectively to toe the party line. So, you made the

:39:00.:39:05.

speech, then you are told very quickly afterwards, your job is

:39:06.:39:08.

obsolete, why do you think that happened? Is difficult. It's not

:39:09.:39:15.

outside the rounds of possibility that what the Department for

:39:16.:39:18.

Education are saying, that this was a task force recommendation that has

:39:19.:39:21.

come to pass, and that it was outside of their control, it is not

:39:22.:39:26.

outside the realms of possibility that it is true but it seems very

:39:27.:39:31.

convenient. Let me just tell you, we have a response from the Department

:39:32.:39:34.

Frederick and. "Natasha Has done a great job of helping us raise the

:39:35.:39:41.

profile of children's mental health. Since that time the task force

:39:42.:39:51.

report has been produced with recommendations. We have asked

:39:52.:39:56.

Natasha to continue to work with us as we prepare to launch our activity

:39:57.:40:01.

later this year". They have asked me to continue sitting on a steering

:40:02.:40:05.

group very specifically looking at peer men touring, and that was a

:40:06.:40:08.

project in place before I took the role in August. However they have

:40:09.:40:13.

told me that I am no longer to make any statements publicly as mental

:40:14.:40:17.

health champion. From that statement what I garner is they still want the

:40:18.:40:21.

benefits of being associated with me but they just don't want me to say a

:40:22.:40:26.

thing that might embarrass them. Let me be absolutely clear. One of my

:40:27.:40:29.

instincts when this story broke was to hide under a table and wait for

:40:30.:40:33.

it all to blow over. I've been in this role for nine months, I've been

:40:34.:40:37.

going into schools and campaigning on mental health for nine years.

:40:38.:40:41.

I'll be fine, I'll just carry on doing what I've always done. When I

:40:42.:40:44.

first took the role I said to the department what I want to do is

:40:45.:40:47.

bring the concerns of young people and the people who teach them to

:40:48.:40:51.

government level. It is not me being silenced, it is young people and

:40:52.:40:56.

teachers, and that's why I am here. Do you think that the government

:40:57.:40:59.

doesn't take seriously enough the issues of mental health, young

:41:00.:41:04.

people and children in schools? I think the government knows that

:41:05.:41:10.

young people don't vote, or if they do they are very unlikely to vote

:41:11.:41:15.

Tory, and they have historically ignored their needs and the price

:41:16.:41:19.

that they've paid is that now we have seen a crisis in their mental

:41:20.:41:26.

health. And in terms of moving forward, how confident are you that

:41:27.:41:30.

enough will be done? I hope that the new mental health champion, which

:41:31.:41:36.

will be across all departments, is able to be a positive force for

:41:37.:41:40.

good. And I hope. There have been some good projects within the DFE

:41:41.:41:43.

and I wish them all the very best of luck with them. But I remain

:41:44.:41:49.

sceptical. Thank you for joining us. That's all we've done for. Remember

:41:50.:41:56.

to tune in to the election results programme. I will be in Scotland

:41:57.:42:00.

tomorrow to analyse all the results. Until then, good night.

:42:01.:42:09.

Temperatures reached into the high teens, low 20s across many parts of

:42:10.:42:19.

England and Wales today. Lots more warm sunshine to come. More cloud

:42:20.:42:20.

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