05/05/2016 Newsnight


With Kirsty Wark. The latest from the local elections as polls close across UK. The final part of the EU film trilogy. And the sacked government mental health chief speaks out.

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Political excitement across Britain tonight with counting underway


But exclusively on Newsnight, more trouble for Jeremy Corbyn


as one of the MPs who nominated him says Labour is going backwards


and the leader's inner team is dividing the party.


Zac, do you feel comfortable with the prominence of race in this


campaign? I'm not doing interviews at this minute. But do you feel


comfortable? Very comfortable with this campaign.


The Conservative Party's top man in London tells us Zac Goldsmith's


controversial campaign for London Mayor has


Is it ever possible to please everybody in a trading union?


The last in our trilogy on what became of the European Union dream.


We need to start thinking about mental health from birth and giving


children the tools they need to develop high self-esteem.


She was the government's first ever mental health champion for schools.


Now her job has been axed after she talked to head


teachers about the pressure on today's schoolchildren.


Scottish Parliamentary elections, English and Welsh local elections,


It's been a cornucopia, a feast of politics, and big eruptions too,


not least Labour's problems with anti-semitism, and accusations


by Zac Goldsmith that his Labour opponent who's most like to be


the new London mayor, gave oxygen to extremists.


Before we embark on any post poll analysis, here's


It's great to be here in Richmond, and this is where it


all started for Zac, who would be an outstanding Mayor of London.


We're looking to gain seats where we can.


I'm asking people to elect an SNP government with me as First Minister


so that we can invest record sums in our health service.


I'm in this because I believe in tackling poverty and inequality.


It's what drives me out of my bed every single day.


More homes, better transport, safer streets.


More homes, better transport, safer streets.


I hope Londoners choose hope over fear.


My campaign has been overwhelmingly positive.


So what are you saying about Sadiq Khan?


I have made it very clear that I have never suggested that


Sadiq Khan is an extremist in any way.


I'm a Bollywood fan, so anything with a Bollywood


Do you have a favourite actor or a favourite Bollywood film?


That was Hitler's policy when he first came to power.


I think you've lost that Mr Livingstone.


Is it good politics to bring up Adolf Hitler?


Come on everybody, let's head down the...


Emily is in the election results studio.


Emily. A campaign not short of drama and we should get more in a few


moments time, this screen will light up as results start pouring in, and


we will see how the political landscape is changing since that


extraordinary night in 2015. It is impossible to stress enough that


this is not one British election, it is a series of votes that could


yield different results in different places. If you see labour struggling


in Scotland, they could still have a good night in Wales, or if the


Tories go backwards in Wales they could still pick up seats in


England. Some results will be a referendum on party leaders old and


new, but not all. When we start to look at the direction of travel,


what is happening to the share of the vote, you will want to look out


for Ukip in Wales perhaps or who comes second in Scotland, whether


the Lib Dems show any signs of recovery. I'll show you some of the


things we are looking out for, some key battles. Trafford, for example,


controlled right now by the Conservatives. Can they hang on in


one of their only big metropolitan councils in the north? We'll see


what happens there. Same sort of battle in Crawley. Now, this is


Labour's handful of Southern California is -- handful of Southern


Council. And watch out for Dudley, will Ukip start to come through and


through the result? We may even get the start of results in for


somewhere like Sunderland or Newcastle, Sunderland comes quickly,


if we do I'll bring them to you as soon is we get them here. Right now


we will talk to our new political editor, thrown in at the deep end,


that's how we like to do things. Nick, some breaking news? That's


right, Sky News have broken the news that ad Andy Burnham is giving


serious consideration to standing for the new post of mayor of greater


Manchester. The BBC have confirmed that he is giving it very serious


consideration, and that he has been approached. Why is he doing this?


The personal reason is he would say, he tried to stand for the leadership


twice, it did not quite work out, maybe you should do something new.


There is also a political reason. Andy Burnham is saying that Labour,


which is going to do really badly in Scotland tonight, made a terrible


mistake when the Scottish parliament was founded in 1999, only one big


beast went there, now we've got these elected mayors across England


and he's saying we need a big beast doing it. It sounds very positive


but what would be the knock-on for Jeremy Corbyn? He would be elected


next year, 2017, is three years away from surely when he will be Home


Secretary. Andy Burnham knows that there will probably not be a Labour


Home Secretary in 2020, so look for pastures new. What the Corbyn camp


is saying to mag is that they could face but no official party has faced


outside a general election year since 1985 which is a net loss of


seats. They are saying that's not a crisis because you should be looking


not when these last seats were 14 2012 but what happened in the local


elections last year when Labour just got 29%. Other people in the Labour


Party are saying that's not good enough and the jungle drums are


beginning to beat and I think we are going to find people standing up. If


Sadiq Khan wins in London he is going to say he won by being


pro-business and reaching out across the political spectrum. Give us a


sense of the mood in that party and in all parties right now. There is a


message in terms of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership coming out of the Corbyn


camp. They have said to me, if there is a coup, bring it on, because


Jeremy Corbyn will be on the ballot, Jeremy Corbyn will win, and more


than that he will do even better than he did last year. Their message


is, you want to do it, bring it on. What is interesting is that barring


a big accident tonight, and that big accident would have to be Sadiq Khan


not winning in London, barring that big accident I do not believe that


we are going to be seen immediately a leadership challenge, but what we


are going to see is new faces raising concerns about his


leadership, and it's interesting. We'll be hearing soon on Newsnight,


Kirsty will be interviewing me or call oh, one of the Labour MPs who


nominated but didn't back Jeremy Corbyn last you. He's going to be


raising concerns about the direction of the party under Jeremy Corbyn's


leadership. Fascinating. We'll get the first results in overnight from


the north of England, Scotland, Wales. We will not get that may oral


result until tomorrow evening possibly. You have interviews to do,


Kirsty, back to you. I'm joined by Neil Coyle whose


nomination of Jeremy Corbyn last year ensured his name would be


on the ballot. As we're heard from Nick,


he's now unhappy. What would be a good night and what


would be a bad night? At this stage, after six years of Tory led


government we should not be losing seats. If the Labour Party is going


to be back in government where I wanted to be an Labour members


wanted to be, we need to be winning, not losing anything this evening. I


very much hope the activists, campaigners and supporters who have


been out all day today and for weeks and months this year, I hope the


results to come through and it isn't as bad a picture as is being


projected. You heard Nick saying he looks to you as somebody now coming


out and voicing concerns about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership and the


group around him in that leadership. What do you think the problem is?


Well, the problem for me is that, I won in last year in Bermondsey and


Southwark, constituency that hadn't had a Labour MP for more than three


decades, and a constituency that very much needs a Labour government.


Problem as we seem to be seen again tonight, and I hope it is not


accurate, that we are moving further away from government. I think that


is because we seem to be fixated on some issues that are peripheral, and


we seem to have a team that is not projecting either unity within the


party or a vision, and policies that the voters want us to see. When I'm


out knocking on doors in Bermondsey they need to know what our policies


are on housing and education. And too often all they seem to be


hearing is anti-Tory, not pro-labour. Choose Labour because we


will have a better education system. Is this coming out of the inner


circle, and where do you lay the blame for this? There is a core team


that seem unable to get out of the mindset that is, they are out to get


us. Look at what Nick was saying about, if there is a coup. This is


not about a coup, I am here because I want a Labour Prime Minister and a


Labour government. Tonight is results look like they will send us


back from that. You say you are backpedalling. Do you have people in


mind that are too close to Jeremy Corbyn and giving him the wrong idea


is? It is not about being too close to Jeremy Corbyn. There are people


that share a particular creed in the party but it is about not having


enough diversity in that team. Then need to be people in that team that


do not share one vision on unilateralism or whatever it might


be. We need people there to say what the platform has to be on housing


for example. And who are able to say we cannot just have an anti-Tory and


a divisive agenda that is about, we are not for the rich, we are only


for a certain group. Are there more people like you that will be coming


out in the coming days and weeks? I don't know. I'm hearing from


colleagues, MPs and councillors across the country who are saying


how bad it is in certain areas. I think there will be a frustration.


There is no one in the Labour Party who doesn't want a Labour


government. I think the way to get to a Labour government is to be


honest, robust, and look at, why have we fallen backwards and not on


forwards now? You nominated Jeremy but you didn't vote for him, you


voted for Yvette Cooper. If there is an attempt at a coup, you have all


the members falling behind him. You put him there and he is there to


stay, do you regret that? Well I nominated Jeremy because I wanted to


broadened the debate, and unfortunately it has been fixated on


peripheral issues that are not related to the day-to-day, the doors


I knock on in Bermondsey. I regret the fact that we seem to be moving


back beyond Ed Miliband's first year as Labour leader which led to a


general election defeat. If we fallen back on that I can't do


anything but regret that nomination and that's a very sad position to


be. There is still time to turn that around. We need unity in the team


and we need to be building the policy platform that brings voters


back to Labour. Thank you very much indeed.


As we heard from Neil Colye, Labour's leader's facing a lot


of challenges right now not least the row over anti semitism in the


Has this damaged your leadership? Since Jeremy Corbyn announced


Labour's enquiry into anti-Semitism at least six more party members have


been suspended. This is what we know and it's not much. The enquiry will


be chaired by Shami Chakrabarti. The former director of liberty. The


deputy chair is Professor David Feldman, director of the Pears


Institute for the Study of Anti-Semitism. They will report back


within two months. Less than a week in, questions are being raised about


Professor Feldman and whether he is truly independent. Professor Feldman


is a signatory to a group called Independent Jewish voices. On Sunday


it released a statement saying that while there had been comments which


had clearly crossed the line of anti-Semitism, it added...


Professor Feldman referred to comments he made in the Jewish


Chronicle where he said the statement couldn't possibly reflect


the views of every single Independent Jewish voices and


signature in. is his previous published work on


what does and doesn't constitute anti-Semitism. My understanding that


in a previous report of Professor Feldman has ruled out the


possibility of the notion that equating the actions of the state of


Israel with those of Nazi Germany, who led the systematic orchestrated


mass genocide of 6 million Jews and many millions of others can ever be


anti-Semitic. As somebody who has prejudged this to the extent that a


set of troops and narratives that the majority of Jewish people in


this country today fined for apartment, offensive and certainly


to have anti-Semitic impact doesn't seem to me somebody who will inspire


the confidence of the Jewish community in terms of the job he has


been asked to do. Several senior Labour Party members have expressed


concern at how this whole situation has been handled by the leadership.


And inquiry of this sort are about giving reassurance, should consult


with mainstream Jewish community organisations. It should think


carefully about who is involved in it. And there should be careful


thought about whether it should be a leader 's enquiry or a Labour Party


inquiry. Its point of reference should be carefully thought out.


Newsnight understands there are some in the Labour leadership your


knowledge decisions about this enquiry into anti-Semitism were made


in haste. But they add they would have faced criticism whoever they


had appointed. It is significant that today, polling day, both Shami


Chakrabarti and those at the top of the party have met with Jewish


groups to try to reassure them. Some Labour members are now pushing for


more expertise to be added to the inquiry panel. But it's still too


early to know whether the party handling of allegations of


anti-Semitism will have any impact on votes. A Labour Party


spokesperson gave us this statement. Professor David Feldman will be vice


chair of the inquiry set up by Jeremy Corbyn. The inquiry and


report will be led by Shami Chakrabarti, who has already begun


work into ensuring the inquiry will be rigorous, fairer and


representative. Jeremy Corbyn isn't the only embattled senior


Jeremy Corbyn's not the only embattled senior politician.


Zac Goldsmith's campaign to be be Conservative London mayor drew


criticism for dog whistle politics when he accused his Labour opponent


Siddiq Khan of sharing a platform with terrorist sympathisers


Earlier this week Newsnight's Secunder Kermani caught up


with Zac Goldsmith and put some of the charges to him.


Zac, do you feel comfortable with the prominence of race in this


No, I'm not doing any interviews at the moment,


No, but do you feel comfortable or not?


We're very comfortable with the campaign, it's


Zac, everyone is saying this isn't you, do you regret taking


on Lynton Crosby's firm to run your campaign?


Well I'm joined now by the leader of the Conservative group


on the Greater London Assembly, Andrew Boff.


Good evening, what do you make of Zac Goldsmith's campaign? I think it


was mostly good but I was really troubled by one particular aspect of


it. That's Wednesday, when he started to equate people of


conservative religious views with sympathising with terrorism. That


sent a message out to many of the communities in London that is very


difficult to justify. Was it dog whistle politics? I don't think it


was dog whistle, you can't hear dog whistle, everybody could hear this.


It was effectively saying people of conservative religious views are not


to be trusted and you shouldn't share a platform with them, that's


outrageous. They seemed to forget 24 team wasn't a great year for the


Conservative Party in London, one of the few boroughs that swung to us


was in Newark where the Conservatives there actively engaged


with the Muslim community. Now those bridges that have been built have


been... A few of them have been blown up by this campaign. As


serious as that? You think they've done lasting damage? I think it has


and a lot of us on the ground will have to spend a lot of time on


trying to re-establish those links. He received advice and he was wrong


to accept the advice, from whoever the campaign people were. He wasn't


orchestrating who was orchestrating a campaign if


not that Goldsmith himself? It's something I intend to ask after the


election result, but I don't want us to do this in London again, it's


done real damage. People might say you are saying that because you went


for the nomination and didn't get it... They can say what they like


really, can't they? I've been loyal to Zac all the way three, I think


he's an excellent candid and what really hurts me is I don't think


this sounds like authentic Zac Goldsmith, this kind of political I


didn't think was Zac, it doesn't have his stamp on it. He said in an


interview in the Guardian, very briefly he said he really wasn't a


normal campaign. It's not enjoyable. -- it wasn't a normal campaign. Do


you think he was a puppet? I think there was so much we could have


attacked Sadiq Khan four, his unrealistic economic policy,


destruction of investment if he brings in his housing policies. The


threat to step free access on transport network if you freezes


fares. All of these things are great things that we could have attacked


and we chose to use this particular policy mean as the centre of the


campaign, it was ridiculous. You say it's blown up a lot of ridges. If


it's going to damage a campaign it won't just be Zac Goldsmith. Do you


worry if other considered candidates standing for council? I believe it


will affect Conservatives at the sharp end especially in areas with a


high Muslim publishing. -- population. We've taken a couple of


steps back during the period of this campaign. Two other people in the


party share the concerns you have? Yes, I'm not alone. Obviously we


don't shout about it during the campaign, we are loyal


Conservatives, we hit the streets, campaign for the Conservatives. Were


you getting backlash on the doorstep? Yes. If you don't bring it


up during the campaign, what will happen now? I did bring it up to Zac


's team during the campaign, I mentioned I thought it was a mistake


for future integration of London. You know, this is... If you are a


London politician this is just a bizarre, bizarre thing to do. And


the Conservative Party will suffer, you were saying? I believe so. We're


going to make sure the Conservative Party doesn't suffer.


As soon as one vote is over along comes another one...


Ahead of the EU referendum our final film in Gabriel Gatehouse's


trilogy looking at the EU from the perspective


He's been touring continental Europe seeing whether the reality has


matched the original post war dream, what has suceeded beyond


the founding father's dreams, and what has fallen short


of their grand vision of a united and prosperous Europe.


Out of the ruins of war arose a vision of Europe.


The founding fathers dreamt of ever closer union.


All governments wanted to remain half free.


And so, we've come to the third and final part in our series.


In this chapter, we're going to focus on the


Has monetary union furthered those original


aims of the founders of the


Europe was built on the promise of a shared prosperity.


That was the deal, that was the dream.


This is the reality of life in Greece today.


Naoussa, 500 kilometres north of Athens, was once


When the factories began to fail in the


1990s, people got by on a mixture of credit and government subsidies.


networks are strong, the rise of the bread queue


is a sign that things have gone very wrong indeed.


Tasos lost his job as a casual labourer


They have an infant daughter and they can't


Almost every day we listen to the news, and they always


Nearly half the residents of this town are unemployed.


And these are the people who've been hit hardest.


Many blame their own leaders for the economic mess,


This austerity, these measures, they are so cruel.


Last year they voted overwhelmingly against austerity.


Faith in the European project is evaporating,


but many fear that life outside the euro would be even


So it came to pass that a radical left-wing government


democratically elected on a promise to keep national asset in state


hands is selling off Piraeus, the largest


port in the country, to


The monster in this cautionary tale is the so-called


troika, the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the IMF.


The moral of the story, if you want to be part


of a club, you have to


In the cradle of democracy, the will of the people has been trumped by


the will of Brussels. The idea of a single currency was to promote


closer cooperation to the benefit of all. But there's a problem. From the


very beginning there were questions. Can you have monetary union without


having political union as well? Can you have a single currency and lots


of different economic policies? What Greece shows us is that you can't.


Earlier in this seaweed we met George Bertrand, former chief of


staff to one of the founding fathers of the EU. Like many true believers,


his solution to this economic conundrum is closer union.


Kretschmer early in this series. At the time it was discussed I was


very strongly... We had a meeting... He said, we have to have that in


common. We have common currency. We have the common economy policy. And


we don't have any political responsibility to evolve the policy,


to manage it and to control it. The single currency was supposed to


synchronise economies. But Europe's members aren't all dancing to the


same June. -- tune. This is Maastricht, the place where the euro


was born. It was once an innocuous provincial Dutch town. Until, that


is, they signed a treaty here. Note to the left, 360. The document so


divisive it spit parties and governments tottered. Maastricht has


come to embody Britain's fractious relationship with Europe.


Maastricht isn't universally synonymous with nightmare, with


strife. Elsewhere the significance of this city is it is the place


where a community became a union, wet European leaders took several


steps towards that dream of a federal Europe.


We go in search of the document, which is housed in a sort of modern


castle. Apparently surrounded by a moat.


Eric Lemmons is the curator, the man who guards the treaty. For


this is it. It's a copy, not the original. Maybe after the Rome


Treaty the most important treaty signed between the European


countries. We persuade them to open up the Cabinet. So we can leave


through the treaty for ourselves. This is the signatures page. We've


got Denmark... The first signature page. Portugal and the United


Kingdom. These famous British opt outs, that is the protocol. They are


all in here somewhere. How significant is this document? On a


macro this treaty? Very significant. The European Union was founded on


this treaty and because of the common European currency, which was


also established by this treaty. Yeah.


In Germany they have a single word that describes their post-war


resurrection. Come to the Porsche factory in Stuttgart and see for


yourself. But there's more to this economic miracle than efficiency


alone. Germany has also been the clear winner from the euro. The


crisis in the Eurozone in Greece and elsewhere has kept the euro week.


And that is good for Germany's export driven economy. Now, it may


seem a little unfair to take the slick production lines of the


Porsche factory as your comparison for the rest of European


manufacturing. But in fact this place is emblematic of Germany's


success. What monetary union has done is it has favoured German


exports, and that in turn has helped this country come out on top. The


workers at Porsche may celebrate their stable, well-paid jobs. But


they are also wary of Germany's growing economic dominance. Spain or


Portugal, no chance against a big industrial republic like Germany.


There is a realisation that German success depends on the survival of


the union. Yeah, why did Germany bailout Greece? It is because all


are connected somehow to each other. And if one goes then the whole


system is collapsing. Here is a confident country, and one that


mostly believes in the European project. They are frustrated with


those who just don't seem to get it. Now, hold on a minute. Whatever else


the Germans are good at, we are the ones that make the jokes.


When we meet, we have a little moment, are heart-to-heart from one


evening show to another. Who watches television in the morning? I have no


idea. People who need help. Many of his jokes seem to revolve around


sausage. But he uses wurst to make serious points, about Germany's


unease as its role as leader in the economic and migrant crises. In


Germany there is an expression to do with wurst, it means mingling along


and seeing what happens. Can we continue like that? Can we continue


to sausage our way through Europe? I invented a whole new expression.


Well, it worked for the last five or six years. Not so sure if it is


really the master plan for the next years. But one thing you can be


sure, there will never be at German government which will say, OK, now


we really take the lead. If you lead the way and the rest follows and it


doesn't work, they hate you for the rest of your life. Even we want to


be loved. That's the sad truth. Even the Germans want to be liked. It's


been more than 65 years since Europe set out upon a journey that has led


to today's complex union of 28 member states. But from the very


beginning the founding fathers identified one country as key to the


European project. We wanted to give Germany a path to recovery,


sovereignty, with us, not against us. Making sure that the German


recovery would not become a threat. But an asset. This is what happened.


It just happened that the most powerful country in Europe believes


in Europe, the European dream. And so we are back where we were at the


beginning of our series. In this German town overlooking the Rhine


into France. Whatever you think about the post-war European project,


its greatest achievement surely is this, that it does now seem


inconceivable for any member of the union to take up arms against


another. If the European dream is peace then the EU has succeeded. But


as Europe struggles to find common responses to the crises of the


21st-century, it's clear: the EU is today about more than peace. The


question is, how much more? That's the issue that now provides this


continent. When the very first mental health


champion for schools in England was appointed by the government


last summer, Natasha Devon's new role was announced


with great fanfare. The appointment was part of a wider


government initiative to improve children and young people's mental


health over the next five years - including the way services


work with schools. But then last week in a speech


to the Headmasters' and Headmistresses conference


Natasha Devon said this about testing of school


children in schools: At one end of the scale we've got


four-year-olds being tested. At the other end of


the scale we've got teenagers leaving school,


facing the prospect of leaving university with record


amounts of debt. Anxiety is the fastest-growing


illness in under 21s. She was told on Tuesday


by the Department for Education Good evening. What are your


substantive concerns about child mental health? My concern is that we


know that the person's socio- economic circumstances affect their


mental health. We know that looked after children, half of them will


leave care exhibiting symptoms of mental illness compared with one in


ten in the wider population. My concern is that the government is


giving with one hand, and taking away with another. I go into three


schools are weak, talk with about 500 teenagers, and they tell me that


things like exam stress or concerns about career prospects when they


leave school, are affecting them until health. Until we address those


root causes, we can have all the services in the world, but we will


not get to the root of the issue. When you made the speech to the


headteachers, did the government know what you were going to say, the


gist of it? No. Well, when I was first offered this role in August


last year I enquired as to whether there would be any payment for the


role, it is a very high profile role. I was told that no, they


couldn't even pay my expenses because it was very important that I


remained independent and objective. So I took them at their word and I


did remain independent and objective, and I wouldn't have taken


the role if that hadn't been on the table. We are now told that this new


mental health champion is going to be introduced which will render my


role obsolete, but that it will be role. There are two con versions you


can come to. Either I was lied to and they were trying to get the


benefit of my expertise without paying me, or this new mental health


champion will be paid effectively to toe the party line. So, you made the


speech, then you are told very quickly afterwards, your job is


obsolete, why do you think that happened? Is difficult. It's not


outside the rounds of possibility that what the Department for


Education are saying, that this was a task force recommendation that has


come to pass, and that it was outside of their control, it is not


outside the realms of possibility that it is true but it seems very


convenient. Let me just tell you, we have a response from the Department


Frederick and. "Natasha Has done a great job of helping us raise the


profile of children's mental health. Since that time the task force


report has been produced with recommendations. We have asked


Natasha to continue to work with us as we prepare to launch our activity


later this year". They have asked me to continue sitting on a steering


group very specifically looking at peer men touring, and that was a


project in place before I took the role in August. However they have


told me that I am no longer to make any statements publicly as mental


health champion. From that statement what I garner is they still want the


benefits of being associated with me but they just don't want me to say a


thing that might embarrass them. Let me be absolutely clear. One of my


instincts when this story broke was to hide under a table and wait for


it all to blow over. I've been in this role for nine months, I've been


going into schools and campaigning on mental health for nine years.


I'll be fine, I'll just carry on doing what I've always done. When I


first took the role I said to the department what I want to do is


bring the concerns of young people and the people who teach them to


government level. It is not me being silenced, it is young people and


teachers, and that's why I am here. Do you think that the government


doesn't take seriously enough the issues of mental health, young


people and children in schools? I think the government knows that


young people don't vote, or if they do they are very unlikely to vote


Tory, and they have historically ignored their needs and the price


that they've paid is that now we have seen a crisis in their mental


health. And in terms of moving forward, how confident are you that


enough will be done? I hope that the new mental health champion, which


will be across all departments, is able to be a positive force for


good. And I hope. There have been some good projects within the DFE


and I wish them all the very best of luck with them. But I remain


sceptical. Thank you for joining us. That's all we've done for. Remember


to tune in to the election results programme. I will be in Scotland


tomorrow to analyse all the results. Until then, good night.


Temperatures reached into the high teens, low 20s across many parts of


England and Wales today. Lots more warm sunshine to come. More cloud


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