12/05/2016 Newsnight


12/05/2016

James O'Brien on Vote Leave's response to Mark Carney's Brexit warning and the future of the BBC. Plus what does Preston - and John Timpson - think of Brexit?


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 12/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

This combination of influences on demand supply and the exchange

:00:00.:00:08.

rate, could lead to a materially lower path for growth and a notably

:00:09.:00:11.

Another day, another warning of the risks of Brexit.

:00:12.:00:20.

The Governor of the Bank of England had his say today.

:00:21.:00:25.

For the Leave campaign, a former chancellor will have his say.

:00:26.:00:31.

We've been bringing you the future since 1922...

:00:32.:00:35.

Is our content distinctive enough for you?

:00:36.:00:37.

We'll debate whether the Government's plans

:00:38.:00:38.

for the BBC have gone too far - or not far enough.

:00:39.:00:42.

And are the workers in this Preston chocolate factory delighted

:00:43.:00:44.

Well, to be honest, I think he gave too much.

:00:45.:00:53.

Because then they all start coming over and the NHS...

:00:54.:01:01.

The Governor of the Bank of England has issued a stark warning that

:01:02.:01:17.

voting to leave the European Union could damage the British economy

:01:18.:01:20.

and possibly trigger a technical recession.

:01:21.:01:22.

Only last month, Mark Carney insisted, perhaps somewhat

:01:23.:01:24.

optimistically, that "assessing and reporting risks does not mean

:01:25.:01:26.

becoming involved in politics", but tonight his unprecedented

:01:27.:01:28.

intervention has placed him at the centre of

:01:29.:01:29.

Leave campaigners have accused him of inviting

:01:30.:01:38.

speculators to short the pound, while one Conservative

:01:39.:01:40.

backbencher has called for his immediate resignation.

:01:41.:01:58.

In a moment Lord Lamont will give his response. First, we can set the

:01:59.:02:04.

scene with Adam. What exactly has Mark Carney said? This revolves

:02:05.:02:12.

around the release of two documents today. One is the regular inflation

:02:13.:02:16.

report, the other is the minutes of the monetary policy committee. If

:02:17.:02:20.

anyone is not an expert on these things, that's fine, these are

:02:21.:02:22.

normally technical, serious, economic documents. They do not

:02:23.:02:29.

normally set your heart flutter. However, what Mark Carney did today

:02:30.:02:33.

was weighed first foot deeply forward into the Brexit debate.

:02:34.:02:40.

Making some very clear points. -- wade. The much unprecedented. It

:02:41.:02:44.

starts at the front of this document saying the most significant risks

:02:45.:02:48.

concern the referendum. And it continues to make that point, saying

:02:49.:02:55.

we had financial stability risks around Stirling, unemployment,

:02:56.:02:58.

inflation, investment, it is quite a long shopping list. -- sterling.

:02:59.:03:03.

Appearing to cover many bases. The most recent weakness reflects

:03:04.:03:09.

in part the forthcoming referendum, on the UK's membership

:03:10.:03:11.

of the European Union, which has pushed up uncertainty

:03:12.:03:13.

measures to levels not seen More profoundly, a vote to leave

:03:14.:03:16.

the European Union could have material economic effects

:03:17.:03:19.

on the exchange rate, on demand The facts that could affect

:03:20.:03:21.

the appropriate setting He went on to say that in the event

:03:22.:03:37.

of a British exit, and he thought one of the possibilities was a

:03:38.:03:40.

technical recession. That would be six months of contraction in the

:03:41.:03:45.

economy. That is a technical expression. But that single word,

:03:46.:03:49.

recession is bound to cause a very significant political response.

:03:50.:03:53.

Especially because of who has uttered it. We have heard it from

:03:54.:03:57.

the world and its wife about what the economic impact might be. The

:03:58.:04:01.

words of President it is getting thrown around. But for the governor

:04:02.:04:06.

of the bank of England to do it this time, how significant is that? Very.

:04:07.:04:11.

This debate is framed a lot around economic reports. We have had a

:04:12.:04:16.

blizzard of them recently. The Bank of England is different. It is our

:04:17.:04:21.

central bank. It is independent and political. Doesn't have shareholders

:04:22.:04:25.

to think about. It's specific remit is to analyse the UK economy, and

:04:26.:04:29.

that is what the governor says he is doing. -- its. He said it would be

:04:30.:04:34.

more political not to release this. Is the economic side of this done

:04:35.:04:42.

and dusted, the debate? We have had a series of reports. This one will

:04:43.:04:48.

get a lot of publicity. We have had the OECD, the ISS, the Treasury's

:04:49.:04:55.

report, and plenty of others. -- IFS. They have all body said the

:04:56.:05:02.

same thing. The IMF will speak tomorrow. It is expected to say

:05:03.:05:06.

similar things. It raises one question, if the economic argument

:05:07.:05:10.

has been decided, and I am sure you will hear the other side of that, is

:05:11.:05:15.

there going to be pressure on the league campaign to look for other

:05:16.:05:18.

areas in which to expand its argument. -- Leave campaign. Lord

:05:19.:05:27.

Lamont will give his view. Former Chancellor of the Exchequer who is

:05:28.:05:34.

currently voting for Leave. He was regarded as an astonishing coup for

:05:35.:05:38.

George Osborne when he was appointed. Arguably the most

:05:39.:05:41.

successful central bank in the world at the time. Are we lucky to have

:05:42.:05:47.

his insights? He came here with a very high reputation, having been a

:05:48.:05:50.

successful governor of the bank of Canada. I think he is in danger of

:05:51.:05:58.

getting too involved in politics. What most afraid about his that --

:05:59.:06:06.

is that he is in danger of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. He ought

:06:07.:06:09.

to be careful with his words, because when the governor says

:06:10.:06:12.

things it has a great effect. There is no reason why there should be a

:06:13.:06:18.

downturn, or a recession, if Britain votes to leave. There might be a

:06:19.:06:22.

degree of uncertainty. There is no reason for dramatic contraction to

:06:23.:06:27.

take place. Let me finish... For the governor to say this is in danger of

:06:28.:06:33.

creating a crisis where a crisis is completely avoidable and completely

:06:34.:06:38.

unnecessary. It would have been far easier and far more, I think,

:06:39.:06:42.

judicious for him to suit the have said, we are prepared for all

:06:43.:06:47.

contingencies. All eventualities. You are not saying his analysis is

:06:48.:06:50.

wrong, you are saying you should not have said anything? I think it is

:06:51.:06:56.

quite likely to be wrong. I'm not saying it is right. All nine members

:06:57.:07:02.

agree. The monetary policy committee and the governor in August 2013 told

:07:03.:07:13.

the world that when unemployment reached 7% interest rates would

:07:14.:07:16.

rise. Unemployed and it is now 5%. Interest rates have still not risen.

:07:17.:07:21.

I need to be clear, you are not suggesting Mark Carney is in anyway

:07:22.:07:27.

misleading, or trying to deceive the British public? This is a

:07:28.:07:30.

unanimously agreed analysis of what an exit would entail. If you read

:07:31.:07:37.

what they said, it is full of the word "Could". I think it was

:07:38.:07:44.

unnecessary to use the word recession. I don't believe anybody

:07:45.:07:49.

could forecast that there would be a recession after... Recessions are

:07:50.:07:55.

rarely seen by any forecaster. I cannot recall any recession that has

:07:56.:08:00.

been foreseen by forecasters. Really, this was alarmist. What I

:08:01.:08:04.

think is happening, alas, and I think it is demeaning, is that all

:08:05.:08:07.

of these great institutions, the Treasury, the Bank of England, the

:08:08.:08:13.

OECD, the IMF, have become highly politicised. There is a close

:08:14.:08:17.

interaction between the civil servants and all of them into

:08:18.:08:20.

changing, working together, and, you know, that is a consensus. You have

:08:21.:08:27.

used the word politicised to use economic analysis which does not fit

:08:28.:08:30.

with your own on this issue. The Bank of England is much more

:08:31.:08:34.

independent today than when you were Chancellor, and more than it has

:08:35.:08:39.

been since its inception. To accuse all of the committee to be motivated

:08:40.:08:43.

by anything other than sincerity, true, objectivity is a little bit,

:08:44.:08:49.

well, that is perhaps... I don't agree. I think it was unnecessary to

:08:50.:08:53.

talk. There is no justification for talking about a recession. Nobody

:08:54.:08:58.

can foresee a recession. There is the reason why. There are risks, of

:08:59.:09:03.

course, but there are risks both ways. To say that the risks are all

:09:04.:09:09.

one way is a distortion. Of course, but it is the Bank of England's job

:09:10.:09:13.

to look at these issues, to analyse them effectively, and then, in your

:09:14.:09:18.

view, to stay silent. If there was any intent to persuade a political

:09:19.:09:23.

narrative to shift one way or another, if there was any interest

:09:24.:09:31.

vested by them, they would keep quiet. If you take something like

:09:32.:09:36.

the exchange rate. And we were told in chilling terms there might be a

:09:37.:09:40.

fall in the exchange rate. Not so long ago we were being told that the

:09:41.:09:45.

exchange rate, which actually is at the same level when the referendum

:09:46.:09:48.

was announced, we were told it would fall through. The exchange rate is

:09:49.:09:55.

actually... It has been much lower during the lifetime of this

:09:56.:10:00.

government than the previous Coalition Government. It is nothing

:10:01.:10:04.

very alarming. They cannot say for sure what will happen to the

:10:05.:10:08.

exchange rate. But they can provide guidance. It is not just the

:10:09.:10:11.

exchange rate, housing prices will crash, family income will be

:10:12.:10:16.

affected, economic growth which is already contracting would collapse

:10:17.:10:20.

further. I want to be clear about this, Lord Lamont, obviously no

:10:21.:10:23.

forecaster is infallible. Are you saying that he think the governor of

:10:24.:10:26.

the Bank of England and all nine members of the monetary policy

:10:27.:10:30.

committee are wrong, or somehow biased, or something else? I think

:10:31.:10:36.

the NPC are entitled to highlight potential risks. Possibilities. --

:10:37.:10:44.

MPC. But the language used afterwards in the press conference

:10:45.:10:49.

was too certain, emphatic, and two in accordance with the government's

:10:50.:10:55.

view. -- too in accordance. Thanks very much indeed.

:10:56.:10:56.

Earlier today I spoke to the French Finance Minister, Michel Sapin.

:10:57.:10:59.

He was in town for the anti-corruption summit

:11:00.:11:01.

so effectively brought to our attention by David Cameron's

:11:02.:11:03.

fantastically indiscreet descriptions of Nigeria

:11:04.:11:04.

and Afghanistan, but I began by asking him about the referendum

:11:05.:11:07.

and whether he sympathised with Mark Carney's intervention.

:11:08.:12:04.

As Finance Minister of France, can you envision a future

:12:05.:12:06.

in which we would be able to trade freely, the British would be able

:12:07.:12:10.

to trade freely with you, but the freedom of movement

:12:11.:12:12.

between our two countries would be curtailed?

:12:13.:12:24.

Every voter in Britain is imagining hypotheses at the moment, Minister.

:12:25.:12:44.

but would you, as Finance Minister, envision an entente

:12:45.:13:30.

How has this debate, whatever its outcome proves to be,

:13:31.:13:32.

how has it impacted on domestic French politics?

:13:33.:14:48.

the risk of war in Europe, is that to your mind

:14:49.:14:50.

The Government today unveiled a major overhaul

:14:51.:15:19.

Inevitably, some commentators opined that there wasn't enough actual

:15:20.:15:23.

overhauling on the way, while others insisted that there

:15:24.:15:25.

Our job, as ever, is to consider thesis and antithesis in the hope

:15:26.:15:30.

of securing some sort of synthesis, and we'll start doing that

:15:31.:15:32.

In the very first instance, though, viewers need to know that they'll

:15:33.:15:36.

have to pay the licence fee for at least the next eleven years,

:15:37.:15:39.

and programme-makers need to start wrestling

:15:40.:15:41.

with the Culture Secretary John Whittingdale's demand for more

:15:42.:15:43.

Newsnight's political editor, Nicholas Watt, has been delving

:15:44.:15:46.

They feared the worst. It turns out that Tess an Claudia can relax.

:15:47.:16:20.

Strictly keeps its #3r50i78 Saturday evening slot, the BBC license fee is

:16:21.:16:25.

safe for the next decade and the Royal Charter underpinning the

:16:26.:16:28.

corporation will last a full 11 years, though there is a review

:16:29.:16:33.

after five. I think that John Whittingdale's fox

:16:34.:16:38.

has been shot by his own side. Simply because he has had to reign

:16:39.:16:42.

in all of those terrible things he wanted to do to the BBC.

:16:43.:16:47.

But there are concerns over the creation of a new supervisory board.

:16:48.:16:52.

Labour and the BBC believe the Government wants to give itself too

:16:53.:16:56.

great a role in appointing members. We have an executive board that does

:16:57.:17:01.

all the editorial, sort of ultimate responsibility at the BBC. There are

:17:02.:17:05.

no Government appointments on that, there never have been. We are

:17:06.:17:09.

creating a unitary board and we accept that there could be a role

:17:10.:17:13.

for the chairman and vice-chairman, being selected through a public

:17:14.:17:16.

appointment process, we would like to discuss safeguards on that to

:17:17.:17:20.

reflect the BBC's independence, but I think for the rest of the

:17:21.:17:25.

non-execs our starting point they should be a appointed by the

:17:26.:17:28.

chairman, chairing the nominations committee in the same way a plc

:17:29.:17:34.

would. The main concern I have left, is the proposals that he had for

:17:35.:17:39.

appointing the new unity broad, and I think there are a lot of concerns

:17:40.:17:43.

still about those. The White Paper also says that the board has control

:17:44.:17:48.

of editorial direction, it is going to be looking at output after the

:17:49.:17:52.

event. We all know the chilling effect that that can have on

:17:53.:17:56.

creative people, if you get told off for what you did afterwards.

:17:57.:18:00.

But the Government believes that it is right to keep a close eye on an

:18:01.:18:04.

organisation that is funded by the public, to the tune of ?4 billion.

:18:05.:18:12.

They have huge power and authority, and that without accountability is

:18:13.:18:16.

unhealthy. You have to remember that all of the trusts are appointed by

:18:17.:18:21.

the BBC and formally the Governor os of the BBC were appointed by the

:18:22.:18:25.

Government. What is the difference really? Today's squabbles will be

:18:26.:18:31.

resolved, no doubt guaranteeing another generation of blockbuster

:18:32.:18:35.

BBC dramas. The big dilemma in the future will

:18:36.:18:39.

revolve round a question that is left unanswered in the White Paper.

:18:40.:18:44.

Does it put the BBC on a sustainable footing for the decades ahead? Or

:18:45.:18:50.

has the Government set in motion a mechanism to gnaw away at the BBC's

:18:51.:18:54.

funding and structures in the digital age? The license fee is hot

:18:55.:19:00.

safe because the technological changes that will Dominic Grieve the

:19:01.:19:03.

demands of the consumer will make the license fee irrelevant.

:19:04.:19:10.

-- that will drive. Supporters of the BBC believe that all roads

:19:11.:19:14.

eventually lead to the license fee. I think there will always be a tight

:19:15.:19:19.

leash on the BBC, a tight leash on the finances of the BBC, and if the

:19:20.:19:24.

Secretary of State could find an alternative, to the license fee,

:19:25.:19:27.

believe you me he would have found it. The fact he hasn't is because

:19:28.:19:32.

the public can't see an alternative, and none of the commercial companies

:19:33.:19:36.

that compete with the BBC want to compete with them on revenue. None.

:19:37.:19:42.

The BBC will be safe as it moves towards its sentry over the next

:19:43.:19:47.

decade. But the Government has definitelied a clear message. One of

:19:48.:19:51.

the biggest public broadcasters cannot be immune from the digital

:19:52.:19:55.

revolution that is shredding media organisations across the globe.

:19:56.:19:59.

Not release because you have spot add way that our two main stories

:20:00.:20:08.

can be knitted together. The referendum campaign, and the

:20:09.:20:13.

possibility of a new look BBC. This happened when John Whittingdale the

:20:14.:20:18.

churl secretary, one of the Cabinet ministers campaigning for a Brexit

:20:19.:20:22.

told ITV news said he has sympathy with the unease about ITV's decision

:20:23.:20:25.

to invite Nigel Farage who is not part of the formal vote leave

:20:26.:20:28.

campaign to take part in one of the referendum debates. Now, what the

:20:29.:20:31.

Labour Party are saying, is this goes to the heart of their concerns

:20:32.:20:36.

about the Government's role in appointing members of the new

:20:37.:20:41.

unitary board. And they are saying well jonth Whittingdale may have

:20:42.:20:45.

said he was speaking in a personal capacity, but he has a form of quasi

:20:46.:20:50.

judicial role and maybe in future if you have heavy Government

:20:51.:20:54.

involvement maybe you could have a cabinet minister saying I am

:20:55.:20:57.

speaking in a personal capacity but they carry weight. The Government

:20:58.:21:01.

had made clear today it would have liked to appoint some members of the

:21:02.:21:05.

unitary board but they say the BBC has the right to appoint the

:21:06.:21:07.

majority of its members. Waheed Alli, Lord Alli,

:21:08.:21:12.

is a media entrepreneur and Labour life peer,

:21:13.:21:14.

and journalist Stephen Glover is a columnist for the Daily Mail

:21:15.:21:16.

newspaper, they join me now. We will start with you, which

:21:17.:21:30.

expected fireworks have we seen many If you asked the BBC a year ago when

:21:31.:21:34.

John Whittingdale what they expected there was fear and panic, because he

:21:35.:21:40.

was billed as a ferocious Thatcherite and what he has produced

:21:41.:21:44.

today, is, with one or two exception, is more of the same, the

:21:45.:21:48.

BBC has its future secured for the next 11 year, it is going to have a

:21:49.:21:55.

real increase in license fee for the next FIA year, so I think Lord Hall

:21:56.:21:59.

the Director-General will be happy this evening. Why would

:22:00.:22:04.

the Director-General will be happy the ferocity of Thatcherism with a

:22:05.:22:06.

desire to wouldn't that is what they thought.

:22:07.:22:13.

They thought that the Whittingdale was a ferocious Thatcherite and

:22:14.:22:16.

fact, many people who know him, I don't know him he has a reputation

:22:17.:22:21.

for being a cautious person and he was never going to take on the BBC.

:22:22.:22:26.

Behind him, he has a government which doesn't want to fight with the

:22:27.:22:30.

BBC, a few weeks before the referendum. There has been little

:22:31.:22:34.

cautious about your criticism of the BBC over... I wouldn't say that at

:22:35.:22:39.

all. I am balanced and reasonable. That is why you are here. Were you

:22:40.:22:44.

pleased with what came out. There is some good things. I have, I would

:22:45.:22:49.

like to see more evidence that the BBC is going to curtail its

:22:50.:22:53.

like to see more evidence that the which has done a lot to destroy the

:22:54.:22:57.

or undermine the website of newspapers, which are in, you know

:22:58.:23:00.

have big financial problems at the moment, many of them. I I would like

:23:01.:23:05.

have big financial problems at the to have well, I mean, on that point,

:23:06.:23:10.

it should be said it's a good thing that that the BBC has been

:23:11.:23:13.

it should be said it's a good thing give a few million pounds of scraps

:23:14.:23:18.

to local newspapers, 150 journalist, because the effect of

:23:19.:23:22.

to local newspapers, 150 journalist, website, on local newspapers, has

:23:23.:23:26.

made worse, has accelerated the decline. These aren't the headline

:23:27.:23:32.

issues, the notion of making less popular problems, that must trouble

:23:33.:23:33.

you. I doubt, this is sort popular problems, that must trouble

:23:34.:23:39.

are just exhortations, aren't they. We will see. Lord Alli, I presume

:23:40.:23:42.

you perhaps are a bit We will see. Lord Alli, I presume

:23:43.:23:46.

than Steven Glover We will see. Lord Alli, I presume

:23:47.:23:50.

the fireworks. Not really I think the Secretary of

:23:51.:23:52.

the fireworks. Not really I think from an overt attack on the BBC to a

:23:53.:23:56.

the fireworks. Not really I think detail. So if you

:23:57.:23:57.

the fireworks. Not really I think Paper, there are ticking time bombs

:23:58.:24:03.

in there, that he has set to explode over the coming months

:24:04.:24:07.

in there, that he has set to explode independence, we have touched on the

:24:08.:24:09.

appointment of the directors to the board. That needs to be an

:24:10.:24:11.

independent process, it is an board. That needs to be an

:24:12.:24:17.

Government has to give up appointing like a state controlled

:24:18.:24:20.

Government has to give up appointing who is on the board of the BBC. If

:24:21.:24:22.

you look at the license fee, they guaranteed it but in five years'

:24:23.:24:28.

time there is to be a health check and they have taken some of that

:24:29.:24:32.

money, and they have given it to commercial broadcasters, these are

:24:33.:24:35.

commercial broadcasters that are doing very well, without taking

:24:36.:24:40.

license fees, payer's money to make programmes. And the third and

:24:41.:24:45.

probably the most distressing point, is this notion of distinctive

:24:46.:24:49.

programming, it is a Trojan horse, it is put in there to say to the

:24:50.:24:55.

BBC, you need to make distinctive programming, curtail making popular

:24:56.:24:58.

programming, and make distinctive programming. This is to clarify the

:24:59.:25:01.

notion it should be programmes that nobody else would make and the

:25:02.:25:06.

reason they wouldn't is because known wants to watch them. Therefore

:25:07.:25:09.

what happens is the ratings fail in the -- fall in the beak, the

:25:10.:25:13.

Government can say, oh, you are not serving your audience, therefore we

:25:14.:25:16.

want to take more of the license fee away from you. It's a sophisticated

:25:17.:25:20.

plan. Of course it is. They always are. When you can't win your

:25:21.:25:26.

argument, by standing up and making it in public, you hide behind the

:25:27.:25:29.

detail. And that is what the Secretary of State has done and we

:25:30.:25:34.

have to in Parliament protect the license fee payer, and do what the

:25:35.:25:37.

public want. You know, every time we look like we are enjoying ourself,

:25:38.:25:42.

every time we have popular programme, there is always a

:25:43.:25:44.

politician passing by, that wants to take them away from us. Or a

:25:45.:25:49.

journalist, even. Are you comfortable with the BBC making

:25:50.:25:53.

popular and populist programmes? Well, it makes a lot of them, but it

:25:54.:25:58.

seems to me the BBC, but it seems to me, there is no point point of the

:25:59.:26:03.

BBC unless it does some things that the market doesn't do. That I think

:26:04.:26:06.

is the point of what you were talking about. There are some things

:26:07.:26:13.

like documentaries or religious programmes or children's programmes

:26:14.:26:18.

which the BBC, it does, tries to make us laugh. There is a huge

:26:19.:26:24.

amount of output. All one is saying that the BBC needs to attend to

:26:25.:26:28.

those prosecution, which the market doesn't produce, otherwise what is

:26:29.:26:33.

the point of BBC? Briefly cast your mind back a decade or three, did you

:26:34.:26:38.

sit there feeling a sense of resentment as you were chuckling way

:26:39.:26:44.

to more come and wise or Porridge. If they only made programme like

:26:45.:26:48.

that now. You can't make... The argument is not that the BBC

:26:49.:26:51.

shouldn't produce popular programme, it is it should do things with the

:26:52.:26:57.

market may not do. May not produce. If it doesn't do that what is the

:26:58.:27:04.

point of the BBC? Should it can make the Bake Off Of course. Our scones

:27:05.:27:10.

are safe. Gentlemen, many thanks to both of you.

:27:11.:27:13.

You don't need a degree in psephology to realise that,

:27:14.:27:15.

as things stand, the EU referendum will be decided by the votes

:27:16.:27:18.

Research shows that women are more likely than men to fall

:27:19.:27:22.

Men, apparently, are more likely to lie about having already arrived

:27:23.:27:26.

And many observers believe that the old Labour

:27:27.:27:28.

heartlands could hold the key to victory for either side.

:27:29.:27:31.

Accordingly, in the latest of Newsnight's Referendum Road

:27:32.:27:33.

series, Katie Razzall headed to Preston.

:27:34.:27:46.

I want England to be as great as it used to be.

:27:47.:27:57.

I don't like to be told by somebody sat in Belgium what I should do.

:27:58.:28:01.

She is taking her shoes off - I love it!

:28:02.:28:15.

In her prime, June Gregson was goingly for the most successful

:28:16.:28:17.

women's football team of the 20th century.

:28:18.:28:23.

In fact, he burned my football boots.

:28:24.:28:30.

He picked them up and threw them on the fire.

:28:31.:28:42.

June's team, the Dick Kerr Ladies were famous.

:28:43.:28:47.

Named after the Preston munitions factory where they worked,

:28:48.:28:49.

from the off in 1917, her predecessors attracted

:28:50.:28:51.

But when a staggering 53,000 turned out at Everton's Goodison Park

:28:52.:29:01.

in 1920, the largest crowd that had ever been recorded

:29:02.:29:03.

in the Football League, male or female, the fate

:29:04.:29:06.

The FA banned them from playing in their stadiums.

:29:07.:29:12.

Clever young goalie June played for the team in the 1950s,

:29:13.:29:15.

Instead of accepting the mill or shop job that was her lot,

:29:16.:29:25.

she took work in Greece and France - but that doesn't

:29:26.:29:28.

I think this country is big enough, strong enough,

:29:29.:29:37.

and it's certainly got the, oh, what do they say,

:29:38.:29:39.

Let's do it while we have the chance to do it now.

:29:40.:29:48.

And are lots of people, you know, saying

:29:49.:29:50.

There's not many people that I have spoken to,

:29:51.:29:56.

or speak to, is wanting to stay in it.

:29:57.:30:00.

They're sick of the interference in their ordinary lives.

:30:01.:30:03.

June's home town Preston may have changed over the years,

:30:04.:30:06.

but its political affiliations have stayed solidly Labour.

:30:07.:30:11.

That party is officially backing the Remain cause but what of its

:30:12.:30:15.

traditional support base in places like this?

:30:16.:30:17.

Many here seem to hark back to a time before we joined.

:30:18.:30:27.

Beech's Chocolate has been on this site since 1920.

:30:28.:30:31.

Despite losing contracts to factories in eastern Europe,

:30:32.:30:33.

where labour is cheaper, they are going for glory

:30:34.:30:36.

I clocked in and joined the shift.

:30:37.:30:50.

I'll pick it up and take it to the bin for you.

:30:51.:30:59.

So you know, it's quite appropriate we are doing Turkish Delight,

:31:00.:31:13.

To be honest, I think it's too much.

:31:14.:31:20.

Because then they will start coming over and using the NHS

:31:21.:31:27.

Here they sit happily alongside Polish workers,

:31:28.:31:38.

but they are still concerned about the pressures on services

:31:39.:31:41.

caused by freedom of movement within the EU.

:31:42.:31:44.

I had to go to the dentists yesterday, because mine was closed,

:31:45.:31:47.

I hope not too much chocolate?

:31:48.:31:51.

When I went there, there was a lady saying "Are you paying

:31:52.:32:01.

After me, there was eight people come in, none of them paid,

:32:02.:32:06.

You are saying the eight people who came in on benefits,

:32:07.:32:10.

I just think it is because of, with the National Health Service

:32:11.:32:28.

being stretched to the maximum, and the border controls more

:32:29.:32:37.

than anything, because I think with that being stretched,

:32:38.:32:40.

and more people coming in, it's going to be stretched even

:32:41.:32:42.

further, and I think the borders need to be controlled more.

:32:43.:32:45.

Anybody is coming in and you don't know where they are going.

:32:46.:32:48.

We do rely on people coming to work for us, different nationalities

:32:49.:32:52.

and things like that, because if we didn't have these

:32:53.:32:54.

people, we wouldn't be able to do our jobs,

:32:55.:32:56.

we wouldn't be able to get the orders out.

:32:57.:32:59.

I am concerned how many people we are letting in the country.

:33:00.:33:02.

A quarter of semi and unskilled workers recently polled said

:33:03.:33:04.

Some analysts predict the undecided are more likely to vote to stay,

:33:05.:33:13.

but here, everyone I spoke to told me they hadn't made

:33:14.:33:15.

up their minds, before saying in fact life would be

:33:16.:33:18.

How many stars are there on the EU flag?

:33:19.:33:33.

Across town, Newsnight hijacked a pub with a few EU

:33:34.:33:36.

What is the date of the EU referendum?

:33:37.:33:44.

Meet the Pink Ladies, a networking group for

:33:45.:33:45.

Lancashire business women - their very own northern powerhouse.

:33:46.:33:48.

Are people talking about the referendum?

:33:49.:33:50.

I talk to customers, they will discuss it with us.

:33:51.:33:55.

You know, and there is so many for and against, but most people

:33:56.:34:06.

are kind of sat on the fence with it, because -

:34:07.:34:08.

but they are more wavering towards the better the devil you

:34:09.:34:11.

What is the name of agreement signed by the EU states, but not the UK,

:34:12.:34:19.

which led to the abolition of border checks between those countries?

:34:20.:34:28.

Just as plenty across our country don't know how they are going

:34:29.:34:33.

More women than men say they are undecided.

:34:34.:34:39.

I want to know whether it is going to be right or wrong.

:34:40.:34:42.

I want to know whether we are going to stay the same.

:34:43.:34:45.

Yes, Europe make decisions for us, but they are not all bad.

:34:46.:34:49.

Nobody can tell us what is going to happen afterwards,

:34:50.:34:53.

so all that is happening at the moment, everybody is telling

:34:54.:34:55.

us if we leave it will be negative and it will be terrible.

:34:56.:35:01.

And if we stay, then it is positive, but nobody knows, the truth

:35:02.:35:04.

about what is going to happen should we leave.

:35:05.:35:07.

I think that is why everybody is very undecided -

:35:08.:35:09.

they don't really know, because nobody told us

:35:10.:35:11.

I employ a Latvian seamstress, who is wonderful.

:35:12.:35:16.

She is here because of the freedom of movement.

:35:17.:35:25.

There is a shortage of nurses, doctors and those kind of services,

:35:26.:35:28.

and there are jobs there to be filled, but we need that type

:35:29.:35:31.

of person coming in, whereas at the moment, anyone can.

:35:32.:35:34.

Whereas if we had control of our own borders, we could choose

:35:35.:35:36.

June will be a big month for Britain in Europe,

:35:37.:35:52.

the referendum of course, and also football's

:35:53.:35:53.

And it seems our June hasn't quite hung up her boots.

:35:54.:36:01.

Who would you like to take on from the Premier

:36:02.:36:03.

Who do you reckon you would have a good go at?

:36:04.:36:07.

I doubt it very much, but I would have a damn good try!

:36:08.:36:28.

And so to speak to the Oxford union tomorrow and worn that... Update

:36:29.:36:40.

your pardon, to warn the Conservative campaigners are

:36:41.:36:47.

beginning to seem like Europe. -- John Major is going to speak to. The

:36:48.:36:53.

decision about which way to vote can be influenced by all sorts of

:36:54.:36:54.

factors. Many people have said they speak

:36:55.:37:00.

for business in this debate. But as for the entrepreneurs

:37:01.:37:03.

themselves, their decision about which way to vote can be

:37:04.:37:05.

defined by all sorts of factors. So we asked John Timpson,

:37:06.:37:08.

boss of the eponymous key cutting, engraving and "so much more"

:37:09.:37:10.

business to tell us about how he's making his decision about Britain's

:37:11.:37:13.

future membership of the EU. I think that someone

:37:14.:37:24.

who is a process-driven, box-ticking, careful sort of guy,

:37:25.:37:25.

or girl, is going to vote for in, because they are worried

:37:26.:37:29.

about the uncertainty. If someone is more like me,

:37:30.:37:33.

a bit of a maverick, who likes the idea of there

:37:34.:37:36.

being more opportunities, I'll be voting to come out,

:37:37.:37:38.

but I sent an e-mail to my three teenage grandchildren,

:37:39.:37:49.

and asked them the question. I think actually they don't

:37:50.:37:51.

know anything else. They were born in Europe

:37:52.:38:01.

and they have lived I'm starting to now

:38:02.:38:03.

wonder whether perhaps But I don't think that,

:38:04.:38:07.

I think it's typical of somebody who has my experience or remember

:38:08.:38:12.

what it was like when I've met plenty of people who have

:38:13.:38:15.

been to Brussels, who actually are worried about the whole

:38:16.:38:19.

bureaucracy that's being set up Do I find anything about the In

:38:20.:38:21.

argument persuasive? Certainly it does give you a very

:38:22.:38:28.

strong, almost guarantee of peace. No conflict between us

:38:29.:38:37.

and any other part of Europe. And that has got to be -

:38:38.:38:41.

that was really the attraction of the Common Market community

:38:42.:38:44.

in the first place. But it comes at a hell

:38:45.:38:49.

of a price, in giving What I think we should

:38:50.:38:52.

be looking at is not the next four months,

:38:53.:38:59.

or even four years, but ten years ahead,

:39:00.:39:01.

where we have an opportunity to really do much more

:39:02.:39:03.

off our own bat, and show what we in the UK can do,

:39:04.:39:06.

without being tied down The Guardian has John Major warning

:39:07.:39:23.

Brexit Tories they risk morphing into Ukip if they focus too heavily

:39:24.:39:29.

on immigration. The Daily Mail goes after Cameron for ducking a TV

:39:30.:39:34.

debate with the same Brexit Tories. China planning a secret takeover of

:39:35.:39:38.

the nuclear power station in the Times. And the FT picks up the story

:39:39.:39:44.

we covered earlier, Mark Carney's warning to the UK if we quit the

:39:45.:39:49.

European Union. Some might not have been paying too much attention to

:39:50.:39:54.

the contemporary art world, but the Turner prize nominations are out.

:39:55.:40:01.

There are three candidates on the list. Here is a taste of their work.

:40:02.:40:04.

Good night. The heat of the day triggered some

:40:05.:40:42.

lively showers in southern counties. Rumbles of thunder.

:40:43.:40:44.

lively showers in southern counties. overnight. Then we pick up this

:40:45.:40:46.

northerly

:40:47.:40:47.

James O'Brien on Vote Leave's response to Mark Carney's Brexit warning, the French Finance Minister and the future of the BBC. Plus what does Preston - and John Timpson - think of Brexit?