25/05/2016 Newsnight

The referendum Catch 22 - campaign hard to appeal to some

voters and you lose your appeal to others.

And it's causing tensions in the Leave campaign.

Vote leave decided they were going to concentrate on immigration on a

very negative basis and frighten people away on the issue of

Legal highs may still get you high, but from midnight

Will the new blanket ban on psychoactive substances work?

Also with us, the new chairman of Heathrow.

He'll explain why his airport should get an extra runway.

And Lord Sugar, far from sweet when it comes to Donald Trump.

If I was an American, I would be very, very worried.

Fortunately I'm an Englishman and I love my country,

It's not been the best week for the Leave campaign.

The bookies have cut the chance of a Leave win to 20%

It's seemed hard for Leave to break the endless trail of establishment

authorities warning us to stay in the EU to avoid armageddon.

Well, as the going gets tough, the internal arguments get going,

and you might have heard here last night that there is to be a change

of tack in the Leave campaign, with more emphasis to be

placed on the immigration issue than hitherto.

But not everybody is happy with that idea.

The issue will be in sharp focus tomorrow when the latest quarterly

Our political editor, Nick Watt is with me.

There has been some internal discussion on this. How do the

insiders feel the Leave Campaign is going? It is the weekly meeting

tomorrow and there may be the odd pained face. You are talking about

the unease we picked up last night about the focus on immigration and

those tensions bubbled to the service again today when the

Institute for Fiscal Studies raised questions about the impact of Brexit

on the UK economy and vote leave started saying we should not take

this organisation seriously, they are bankrolled by the EU. There was

a lot of unease in the campaign about that message. Office for

National Statistics figures out tomorrow should be a big day for the

Leave Campaign, but I have been speaking to a British-born Pakistani

MP who signed up for vote leave last year and he wanted to make a

positive case for immigration and he explained to me why he decided to

The point came when I decided I shouldn't be a part of this in any

way at all positively was when the commission

was considering which would be the lead campaign.

Everybody literally on the Leave Campaign were trying

The Leave Campaign decided they were going to concentrate on immigration

on a very negative basis and try to frighten people away

That is why most of the BME community in the community

is actually now pushing very much towards Europe.

And do you believe the tactics by the leave

I think the Leave Campaign have failed to put

They have not put forward any credible academic studies

on the issue of how the economic situation would be better off

and that has really hindered them, rather than just concentrating

on race they should have concentrated on the economic

message, how positive it would have been to move forward.

I think a lot of people will have been excited by that.

Can I just ask you what do you think black and minority ethnic

voters thought of that vote leave poster, advert, which showed

millions of Turkish citizens walking through a UK passport interview?

Totally horrified and appalled by it.

This is again what makes people really frightened about their own

status in this country and that was really negative,

that was absolutely dismal in terms of a national

These people are isolating them and making them feel like that queue

of the Turkish and making them feel like they are not part of the UK.

Boris Johnson has been criticised for casual racism

after he highlighted what he described as the part Kenyan

I think Boris's exploration of Barack Obama's heritage

and pointing out where he came from is totally

racist and Boris has a lot to apologise for in relation

What would vote leave say in response to that? They have issued a

statement of the back of that and in that statement they have said to

ask, we have always said that we want a fair immigration system, one

which allows us to prioritise the brightest and best from around the

world, not just people who happen to be born in other EU countries. We

will continue to make the positive case for voting to leave the EU.

They might like to point out that the MP left their campaign a few

months ago and he was not exactly a major strategist and he was not

really somebody who attended their board meetings. Where does the

campaign go from here? What is happening tomorrow? There is a clear

message from the lead campaign tonight which is we can still win

this. There was a poll that showed they were tied on 41% and another

poll that showed the lead campaign were ahead on 44%. Tomorrow critics

will be saying that they should be making a speech about how they can

get deals outside the EU. But if you are talking about emigrating you are

potentially harming your brand in the way that the Conservatives did

ten years ago when David Davis was Shadow Home Secretary and not happy

Nick Watt there and a little later we'll hear from Katie Razall

In 80 minutes' time legal highs become illegal.

The Psychoactive Substances Act takes effect.

The Act helpfully explains what it is designed to combat.

A psychoactive substance means any substance which is

capable of producing a psychoactive effect, it says.

But it goes on to explain a psychoactive, but in

But it goes on to explain a psychoactive effect, but in

This in fact, giving the Act it's power.

No longer will ingenious chemists be able to circumvent the law

with new concoctions, as they're already banned.

But it is such a broad definition, specific legal exemptions have had

to be set out for less harmful psychoactive substances

Secunder Kermani reports on what is a big legal change.

We're doing Simon's service tomorrow.

Melanie is preparing to bury her second brother.

He died after becoming addicted to legal highs.

Three years ago, he drowned after falling into a river whilst

Then three weeks ago she found Simon's body next to a packet of

legal highs. After he died MELANIE JONES: A post on Facebook, shared

hundreds of times. Her brothers had been heroin addicts for years, but

Melanie says when they moved on to legal highs their impact was even

more devastating. We could not make sense of the things they were

saying, lots of paranoia, divisional thoughts, psychotic episodes. After

William's death three years ago, Simon became more dependent on legal

highs. As a family we were emotionally torn between trying to

grieve for William and to try to support Simon, so it was a difficult

time for all of us. In the days before his death Simon came to stay

with Melanie and was playing for a while and even wrote on his Facebook

about the upcoming ban on legal highs. But then he got an e-mail

from a company who were selling them. He mentioned an offer that

they were doing and it was three for two, or free delivery of a certain

amount, and he said it feels like a sign. The next day Melanie found her

brother's body. Beside him was a packet of legal highs. I did not say

that at the time, but when the police came they saw this and it was

cherry bomb, a brand of legal high, and that was what this was beside

him. One I saw him I knew he was gone. The legal ban is coming into

force the day after Simon's funeral. We will always have drugs and

addiction problems. These drugs will be legal highs, the same drugs sold

in a different manner. The ban coming into effect is a positive

step so kids are not getting in tights, walking down the high

Street, going next door for a count of energy being and into the shot

next door for a legal high. These are some of the product that from

midnight the night will be illegal to sell either online or in

so-called head shots. The Government is bringing the new law into force

because in the past when it tried to outlaw the particular substance the

manufacturers would tinker with it, creating for illegal purposes an

entirely new one. However, not everyone is convinced this new law

will solve the problem. At this drop-in centre in Birmingham they

have seen the numbers addicted to legal highs rise rapidly. This is

what is collected in this area over the last three years. Many are

addicted to synthetic cannabinoids, but their effects are more like

heroin or crack rather than cannabis. Maybe you take one or two

and people will be keeling over. To ban these things is a good thing,

but that is not the full story. Because the demand will not go away?

The demand will not go away, the reason why people use will not go

away. I smoke it to stop having stomach pains. Kevin had been taking

them for years. They see the effects both on the streets and in jail.

What do they do to your mental health? It has changed a lot of

people. It has destroyed a lot of people. It has made a lot of people

more violent. I got stopped about three weeks ago with a screwdriver.

They are torn about what the effects of the ban will be. We know we will

still be able to get it next week and the week after. We know and

everybody else does, but people still take it. Are you in favour of

it being banned? For what it is doing to people, yes. Britain is

said to have one of the highest rates of legal high usage in the

world, but legal highs are not all the same. Laughing gas in festivals

and nightclubs is one of the substances that will be outlawed. It

can be dangerous, but far less than synthetic cannabinoids. Specific

exemptions in the new law have been written in for alcohol and caffeine.

Here we have... Steven Reid is a user of legal substitutes for drugs

like LSD that are about to be banned. There are whole range of

substances that are currently legal and different substances have vastly

different risk profiles. Things like LSD are extremely safe, but

synthetic cannabinoids seemed to be much more risky and it seems to me

that we need to evaluate each class of substances according to its own

risks and benefits and avoid trying to take this blanket approach. Lots

of the head shots selling legal highs of all descriptions have been

closed down in recent months under pressure from local councils and

trading standards. In Ireland where they passed a similar law six years

ago they had been completely wiped out, but there have only been a

handful of prosecutions. For Melanie and her family the law is already

too late, but having seen both her brothers die and use heroin and

legal highs, she knows which is the most dangerous. If they were still

here today and they were addicted to heroin, it might still have caused

their deaths. But as far as being of healthy mind and still having a

relationship with their family, then, yes, heroin would have been a

much better choice. To discuss the ban on legal highs

here in the studio with me is the Vice journalist and author

of Narcomania, Max Daly, and from Belfast we have

Adele Wallace whose son tragically died last year in April

from taking legal highs. Adele, can you tell us how these

drugs affected Adam? Legal high drugs totally destroyed my son, he

was only 17, and still a child when he was using them. They made him

suicidal, affected him in detrimental ways. He lost everything

that was of value to him, everything precious. To watch your child change

like that, and the aggressive violent side kicked in as well, it

was soul destroying to see this happening before your eyes, and to

actually have to bury your child at 17 for something that was so easily

accessed, so cheap and yet so deadly, it beggars beyond belief.

And as I understand it, he was aware that this was destroying him towards

the end, correct? Yes, but it got to the point where the drugs were so

addictive, the legal highs themselves are so addictive, but

inside there was this little boy that wanted to stop, and he did seek

help on the 9th of April, and very sadly, he had put a status on

Facebook prior to that stating very clearly, my life is hell, it is

miserable, I want to get off these drugs, please don't come near me and

offer me drugs, don't offer me any of them, it isn't that I don't want

to be your friend, but I need to get myself off these. And on the night,

he did seek help and spoke to a clinical psychologist from Cahms,

the child and adult mental health services, but then he took a legal

high on the 13th, it was not a vast amount, one and a half grams, and

they usually only band three grams and upwards, it was shared tween

three, himself and two others, so it wasn't a vast amount between the

three, smoked, but it was enough to kill him. It is heartbreaking. Max,

does everybody agree on the objective that it reducing the

consumption of these things is a good thing? Yes, because a lot of

legal highs now, we are talking synthetic cannabinoids, they are

pretty nasty things. You have reservations about whether banning

is going to actually work or reduce harm, correct? Yes, I understand why

the Government made this new law. There is no way they could have

schoolchildren going into these shops next Mothercare or whatever

and getting extremely potent drugs, it is a ridiculous situation. But,

and it will probably stop some kids from getting hold of these drugs,

the fact that the shops will shut down, I spoke to the owner of a head

shot today, he is shutting down, like most of them will do, and the

other ones will get into vague thing, cigarette gaping. -- vaping.

But what will happen is the more vulnerable users, such as synthetic

weed, they will be on the buy them on the street, because the trade

will immediately swapped from shops to the street, and there was a study

done in Blackburn last year, and a headshot, the city's main one was

shut down by The Authority is, and literally the local crack and heroin

dealer bought up all the stock and started selling it on the streets,

and to attract customers, you started giving away free pies. So

you would say it is worse that way than buying it from a shop? Sales

will continue to the more vulnerable people. Adele, what you think of

that? Do you think Adam, if he hadn't had legal highs, would have,

like so many people, bought a legal highs, and whether just changing the

status from legal to a legal is something that isn't going to be

very material, or is it material? To be honest, Adam was able to access

them from shops and also from drug dealers, so in my opinion, it didn't

make any difference, he was accessing them both, they were both

available, but I personally think the legislation is needed, and

obviously with any legislation there is always room for things to go

underground, because where there is money to be made by ill gotten

gains, people will abuse it. They need more resources to help people

with addiction, because I know for a fact in Northern Ireland there is

not enough resources to help with the amount of addiction, and

especially with legal highs. There is a big volume in demand, and the

services are just not there, because it is rife over here, and it is

prevalent in all communities, causing havoc in every way, and the

worst bit is it is causing massive fatalities. Adele and Max, thank you

very much indeed. Britain may have been arguing

about Europe for decades, but there's one other issue we've

been discussing almost as long. Where to build extra

airport capacity? Do you remember the Roskill

Commission in the '60s that recommended a new airport in

Cublington? Well, that didn't happen

and we are still waiting Heathrow of course, wants

the right to expand. A national hub that has

for decades been at the heart Is this patch of West London,

conveniently close to the centre of the capital, the best place

for a mega world-class airport? With planes having to queue

for much of the time, Heathrow struggles to cope

with overcrowding, and more airlines Nowhere in the world handles as much

traffic on two runways, and last year, a national airports

commission recommended that When we asked for proposals,

we got more than 50, We have concluded that

the north-west runway But the Government has paused

for thought and stalled for time, and says it can't

make up its mind yet. Heathrow is thus

on a charm offensive. Here's the new chairman

of the airport in Liverpool. Turn up the temperature a little bit

and rehearse the arguments again so people understand it's

not just about London. And Heathrow is getting

some support there. The expansion of Heathrow

isn't about Heathrow, it isn't about the south-east,

it's about the whole UK economy. And for us here in Liverpool,

it is about connecting Liverpool to the rest of the world,

and Heathrow can provide Protests over noise,

problems over air pollution, the obstacles to a bigger

Heathrow are formidable. Oh, and they include

the new mayor, Sadiq Khan. I'm quite clear, unlike Boris

Johnson. I don't want to close

down Heathrow Airport. I want it to flourish and thrive,

to be better not bigger. They've made promises in the past

they've failed to deliver. I want the new runway

at Gatwick Airport. The new Heathrow chairman does

at least have the right background He was in charge of the team

organising the London Olympics, and went on to become

Treasury Minister responsible Lord Deighton, the new

chairman of Heathrow. He started as a Goldman Sachs

banker, was chief executive of the London Organising Committee

of the Olympic Games and then became Commercial Secretary

to the Treasury, taking charge of the UK's national infrastructure

plan until last year. Are we going to get a decision soon?

For me, this is about the future of the British economy, and what kind

of economy we want in the 21st-century, what our level of

ambition is. Do we want that airport can -- that can connect us to the

rest of the world? And do you think that they will deliver on the

promise they made before the election last year, when they were

postponing making a decision? We are expecting a decision soon, but they

are very distracted at the moment. Let's look at some of the obstacles.

Night flight, you have said your night flight, six and a half hours

overnight, you will take flight site. You have not promised to do it

in quite the way the airport commission had suggested you would

do it. Is that a problem for you to do it the weather commission said?

We have time to reflect on what commission said, which is leaving a

six on hour window. We have pushed it back the other way to distribute

the benefits so that people who are suffering from planes taking off at

night get just as much respite as the people dealing with early

arrivals in the morning. Out the commission OK with that? 5:30am is

quite an early time for a plane to be making it's way out over London?

It is a lot better than 4:30am. Have the airport commission said that is

OK? What we're going to do is give them the evidence to prove it. But

they set that as a condition and you haven't currently agreed to that

condition strictly. What we have done is said we will bring that in

as soon as we get planning permission, not when we get the

extra runway, so that is a real benefit. Air quality is the thing

that the Government has said is its problem. We have had the vaults

wagon scandal, there has been much more concern about London air

quality than anyone was thinking about two years ago. Ash max the

vaults we at Heathrow will be the leader in

terms of sustainable airports. But that is not the planes, you're

talking about the vans driving around. On air quality specifically,

that is a car and road issue, it is specifically a diesel issue, it is

not a plane issue, so it is whether we drag more cars into the airport,

and in terms of the other surface access to the airport, rail,

bringing in electric cars, we are confident we won't be in breach of

air quality rules. This is a London wide traffic problem, it is not an

air problem. Nightmare for you but, Boris Johnson

becomes Prime Minister, implacably opposed to the third runway at

Heathrow, Sadiq Khan, Mayor of London, also opposed to a third

runway. If that happens, it's gone? There is no third runway? This is

really about the vision you have that the UK economy. You want a

first-rate economy with an airport that actually is competitive? Every

time we defer the decision, the chief executive at ship all sends us

a cake and says thank you, because they are the ones that benefit --

Schipol. Not literally? Literally, because they are acting as our third

runway. But you won't get a third runway at Boris Johnson becomes

Prime Minister. The only question is if he becomes premise in six weeks

or four years. In four years you might have started to build the

runway. I worked closely with Boris on the tree airport, and he thought

that was the vision for the future, but we can explain to him that

Heathrow is the only realistic vision to give us the 21st-century

economy we need. Good luck trying to persuade him! We have met all the

airport commission's conditions on the environment, and that should

make the decision a lot easier. There is a rule if you are in

government that you can't lobby, you can't use the former contact

associates you had in government for two years, so you are now sitting in

a job which is basically a lobbying job trying to persuade Government to

take a third runway, and you are not able to lobby. I am not able to

lobby directly, but there is an enormous amount of other work to do

at Heathrow. The arguments are effectively made for the third

runway, the case has been put out there, it is for the Government now

to make a decision. I have been very focused on making sure that we can

do everything internally to make it possible to make that decision, so

we are ready to go. We have the money ready, the team ready, we have

satisfied the conditions the airport commission laid down, so everything

is ready to go, that is my job. It is then to the Government to make

its decision. Has Britain a problem with infrastructure? The indecision,

the time it takes, look at HS2, Hinkley point, goodness knows if

that will ever happen. Is there something in, what you put that down

to? I think you can draw different lessons from different projects.

Some of course we delivered spectacularly well, we're proud of

the Olympics. Crossrail is going well at the moment, and that project

will effectively expand London, and I would like to do the same

obviously with another runway at Heathrow. The issue is how do you

weigh up the long-term economic benefits which everybody enjoys

against some of the localised costs which of you suffer, and our

political process does spend a long time looking at those short-term

costs. Thank you very much. From one Lord to another.

Lord Sugar, Alan Sugar, of Apprentice fame, has been

appointed as the Government's Enterprise Tsar by

This is his second stint at that role because he did it

for Gordon Brown some years back, but Gordon Brown lost an election,

and Lord Sugar left the Labour Party last year.

As he has been public about his support for remaining

in the EU, one wonders if the timing of his appointment might have been

designed to garner some publicity for his views.

Well, I went to meet him in Westminster earlier today,

to talk business, politics, almost everything in fact.

We began by talking about his new appointment.

I wish to instil entrepreneurial spirit and explain

the apprenticeship opportunities not just to the young people

But you are basically going to be touring the country,

It's very similar to what I've done in the past, obviously.

I think the important thing is for apprentices to take a job

where they are going to learn while they earn, and the Government

has laid on the kind of facilities for them to do this, and employers,

it is important for employers to understand and put

You were of course a member of the Labour Party

until about a year ago, and you left because I think

you felt they had fallen out of love with business far too much.

Yes, that's quite right, and I left at a time before

Jeremy Corbyn was appointed, so it looked like I had some

You are definitely not going to rejoin now, then?

Are you going to join the Conservatives?

You are famous, most famous now in this country among

young people for filling the role of the Apprentice.

Your American counterpart is Donald Trump.

You've likened him to Hitler, I don't have that...

Whoa, you are starting to sound like Piers Morgan.

You don't want to be classed as, you don't want to be categorised

I called him the Pied Piper, actually.

You said there were comparisons to be made, comparisons

How worried are you about Donald Trump?

If I was an American, I would be very, very worried.

Mr Trump considers himself as a great businessman.

I have been in business for 50 years, coming up 50 years now.

I haven't put any companies that I am involved in into insolvency

You may need to look up your facts and just to see what his history is,

and you may need to look up your facts and to see

whether the buildings and the businesses that

bear his name actually have anything at all to do with him.

I understand you are on the side, and I think a lot of businesses

I just wonder if I can ask what you think about the campaign.

A lot of people are saying that the fear factor

of what is meant to happen to us if we come out has been overdone.

I am very concerned about this now, it is getting close

I am very, very concerned, because ordinary people,

what I call ordinary people that I speak to every day

They're not stupid, and they know that they are being frightened

by the Brexit people and frightened by the staying people,

and they really want to understand the reasons why we should either be

staying in or the reasons that they are saying we should go.

Now, my personal view is that this is crazy,

it is absolutely ludicrous we cannot even think about exiting.

These people that are advocating exit, with all due respect to them,

some of them are politicians, there is an ex-mayor,

who has gone off the rails at the moment now.

I had a lot of respect for him until a couple of weeks

ago with the outlandish things he has been saying.

There's 500 million people that we have to sell to,

and we need to ship our goods out, they are our biggest,

You've said some pretty scathing things about George Osborne

"If I were David Cameron, I would think about sacking him."

That was Osborne a few years ago - 2012, you said that.

I am not here for you to bring up a whole host of things that I might

No, but it is fun because you are now working with these guys,

and you said all this stuff about them.

I am taking on a position to promote entrepreneurial spirit

You get this in your head, first of all.

Let me throw the question back to you.

Not looking for a knighthood, I have been Sir Alan.

I am not looking for a peerage, I am a lord.

There is nothing in this for me other than my passion to want

to instill enterprise into people, and whether it is David Cameron

or George Osborne or Jeremy Corbyn or whatever, they should be thankful

that they have got someone like me doing it.

And you are not going to be toeing any party line or told what to say

We heard Nick earlier reporting on arguments on the Leave side

about whether the campaign is in danger of alienating minority

Does a commonwealth heritage make you more inclined to stay

Katie Razzall has the latest of her Referendum Road films now.

She went to the West Midlands to find out.

It's one of Britain's favourite dishes.

Now curry has got mixed up in the EU referendum debate.

Restauranteurs complain that tightened immigration rules stop

them bringing in skilled chefs and other staff from South Asia.

The Leave campaign is promising a vote for Brexit would change that.

They say without open borders to Europe, Britain could re-forge

I was invited to sample the best Bangladesh could offer up by way

of Sutton Coldfield, but do these curry house owners buy

The only reason is the staff shortage.

Do you blame the Government for that?

Definitely the EU, and the second is Government.

Have controlled migration, but it is not all open borders.

We don't know where we stand at the moment.

And if we, obviously with the Commonwealth,

we will get more immigration, migration from there as well.

So you have picked up that message from the Leave campaign?

People coming from Europe, they are no good for us at all.

People who have no experience, people who even could not stand

the smell of aromatic spices, how can you justify to recruit them,

The Prime Minister appeared on the Birmingham-based Sikh Channel

recently arguing the case for Remain.

British and minority ethnic voters could decide this referendum.

According to the British election study, unlike white voters,

who appear evenly split on the issue, two thirds of the BAME

It is going to be largely a Remain vote for many,

Certainly from our programming, we have been out in the Sikh

community and we're getting an overwhelming sense that people

want to stay as a part of the EU, because this issue really

is about segregation and separation, and the Sikh community strongly

believe in one world and one society.

As well as live news and daily prayers, the Sikh Channel is running

a nightly referendum programme up to the vote.

I know Vote Leave has raised the idea that if we stop

being a member of the EU, we will be able to close our

borders, which means we will be able to not take EU migrants necessarily,

and choose to bring people in from the Commonwealth instead.

I don't think it resonates with the Sikh community,

because it seems to be a bit of a shallow argument.

We will replace one type of migration with another type

That doesn't seem to ring true, and if there is any Asian

communities who are supporting that sort of stance, there may

be some self-interest in that they want to see people

from their home countries be preferred.

Long before EU citizens set up home in the UK, immigrants from Britain's

colonies were moving here, filling jobs created

When Britain last held a referendum on Europe, many argued

we were turning our backs on the Commonwealth and those

The Commonwealth diaspora helped make the West Midlands the UK's

most ethnically diverse region outside London,

and it's a key battle ground for the ethnic

I would like to buy this suit for my son, please.

Mrs Chipta and her husband moved to Birmingham from

He worked in a factory, she started her own venture.

Was it you who set up the shop?

Her son now runs the place, and is a keen Outer.

Most of the products that we sell now are manufactured outside

of Europe, so if we were to be able to have trade agreements

with countries like China, with India, with Commonwealth

countries, we would be able to be much more competitive on these goods

We are paying into a club which we personally don't

What I would like is a fair immigration system.

Do you feel there is an irony in the fact that somebody like you,

whose parents came over, you were immigrants originally,

and now you are complaining about new immigrants?

If we had a system which was fair, which went all around the world,

so we get the best people from around the world,

so we are able to get computer programmers from India,

we are able to get nurses, doctors from any of the Commonwealth

countries where they speak our language, they have the same law

system and everything as us, it is much easier.

So immigration isn't the problem, it is the levels of immigration.

Across town at Birmingham's Mack gallery, an exhibition

by Barbara Walker of the contribution made by black

servicemen and women to Britain's Armed Forces.

A visual reminder of our Commonwealth heritage.

But amongst the people we gathered here, all of Caribbean descent,

few saw those links as a decider in the referendum.

Our unity is strength, and if the UK leaves Europe,

So I think it will have a devastating effect on businesses.

I know a lot of people are quite emotional about this,

losing our jobs to people from abroad, but...

When we have historically been the great nation that Britain

managed to carve itself out to be, a big part of that was our link

There was our link to other parts of the world that actually

helped us to gain our strength economically and politically.

I think we are in a different world now.

We don't know what is going to happen if we separate,

and whilst some are arguing that to separate could be better,

that could is a really, really big could.

I'm hopeful that some of the discussions and some

of the things that we will want to change are really about taking

away some of the support mechanisms for people right

If it wasn't for Europe, we wouldn't have the protections

for maternity leave, the 48-hour rule, and if you remove

all the protections, then I fear that those sorts

Older voters are more likely to be for Brexit,

but that is not how Raka Omar sees it.

My grandfather for example came over here in the '60s from Jamaica, so it

took around six weeks to get here, and he really fought for a better

life, and coming here, really working after World War II,

the country was completely dismantled, and helping with others

to put that back together, working in the NHS,

building our country back again to really build a stronger

European Union as well as obviously the UK, to leave that EU

In the more recent past, Britain did things slightly differently,

and therefore we've got a lot more Caribbeans,

a lot more Indians in the UK compared to the other European

countries, and being out of the EU could potentially allow us to build

Will ethnic minority voters decide this referendum?

Operation Black Vote said today one third of Britain's 4 million

or so BAME voters are not actually registered.

Today the organisation released this controversial poster in an attempt

The minority voters' apparent support of Remain

could prove decisive, but only if they turn out to vote.

That is all we have time for this evening.

Kirsty will be presenting tomorrow, and will be talking