25/05/2016 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines, with Evan Davis.

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The referendum Catch 22 - campaign hard to appeal to some


voters and you lose your appeal to others.


And it's causing tensions in the Leave campaign.


Vote leave decided they were going to concentrate on immigration on a


very negative basis and frighten people away on the issue of


Legal highs may still get you high, but from midnight


Will the new blanket ban on psychoactive substances work?


Also with us, the new chairman of Heathrow.


He'll explain why his airport should get an extra runway.


And Lord Sugar, far from sweet when it comes to Donald Trump.


If I was an American, I would be very, very worried.


Fortunately I'm an Englishman and I love my country,


It's not been the best week for the Leave campaign.


The bookies have cut the chance of a Leave win to 20%


It's seemed hard for Leave to break the endless trail of establishment


authorities warning us to stay in the EU to avoid armageddon.


Well, as the going gets tough, the internal arguments get going,


and you might have heard here last night that there is to be a change


of tack in the Leave campaign, with more emphasis to be


placed on the immigration issue than hitherto.


But not everybody is happy with that idea.


The issue will be in sharp focus tomorrow when the latest quarterly


Our political editor, Nick Watt is with me.


There has been some internal discussion on this. How do the


insiders feel the Leave Campaign is going? It is the weekly meeting


tomorrow and there may be the odd pained face. You are talking about


the unease we picked up last night about the focus on immigration and


those tensions bubbled to the service again today when the


Institute for Fiscal Studies raised questions about the impact of Brexit


on the UK economy and vote leave started saying we should not take


this organisation seriously, they are bankrolled by the EU. There was


a lot of unease in the campaign about that message. Office for


National Statistics figures out tomorrow should be a big day for the


Leave Campaign, but I have been speaking to a British-born Pakistani


MP who signed up for vote leave last year and he wanted to make a


positive case for immigration and he explained to me why he decided to


The point came when I decided I shouldn't be a part of this in any


way at all positively was when the commission


was considering which would be the lead campaign.


Everybody literally on the Leave Campaign were trying


The Leave Campaign decided they were going to concentrate on immigration


on a very negative basis and try to frighten people away


That is why most of the BME community in the community


is actually now pushing very much towards Europe.


And do you believe the tactics by the leave


I think the Leave Campaign have failed to put


They have not put forward any credible academic studies


on the issue of how the economic situation would be better off


and that has really hindered them, rather than just concentrating


on race they should have concentrated on the economic


message, how positive it would have been to move forward.


I think a lot of people will have been excited by that.


Can I just ask you what do you think black and minority ethnic


voters thought of that vote leave poster, advert, which showed


millions of Turkish citizens walking through a UK passport interview?


Totally horrified and appalled by it.


This is again what makes people really frightened about their own


status in this country and that was really negative,


that was absolutely dismal in terms of a national


These people are isolating them and making them feel like that queue


of the Turkish and making them feel like they are not part of the UK.


Boris Johnson has been criticised for casual racism


after he highlighted what he described as the part Kenyan


I think Boris's exploration of Barack Obama's heritage


and pointing out where he came from is totally


racist and Boris has a lot to apologise for in relation


What would vote leave say in response to that? They have issued a


statement of the back of that and in that statement they have said to


ask, we have always said that we want a fair immigration system, one


which allows us to prioritise the brightest and best from around the


world, not just people who happen to be born in other EU countries. We


will continue to make the positive case for voting to leave the EU.


They might like to point out that the MP left their campaign a few


months ago and he was not exactly a major strategist and he was not


really somebody who attended their board meetings. Where does the


campaign go from here? What is happening tomorrow? There is a clear


message from the lead campaign tonight which is we can still win


this. There was a poll that showed they were tied on 41% and another


poll that showed the lead campaign were ahead on 44%. Tomorrow critics


will be saying that they should be making a speech about how they can


get deals outside the EU. But if you are talking about emigrating you are


potentially harming your brand in the way that the Conservatives did


ten years ago when David Davis was Shadow Home Secretary and not happy


Nick Watt there and a little later we'll hear from Katie Razall


In 80 minutes' time legal highs become illegal.


The Psychoactive Substances Act takes effect.


The Act helpfully explains what it is designed to combat.


A psychoactive substance means any substance which is


capable of producing a psychoactive effect, it says.


But it goes on to explain a psychoactive, but in


But it goes on to explain a psychoactive effect, but in


This in fact, giving the Act it's power.


No longer will ingenious chemists be able to circumvent the law


with new concoctions, as they're already banned.


But it is such a broad definition, specific legal exemptions have had


to be set out for less harmful psychoactive substances


Secunder Kermani reports on what is a big legal change.


We're doing Simon's service tomorrow.


Melanie is preparing to bury her second brother.


He died after becoming addicted to legal highs.


Three years ago, he drowned after falling into a river whilst


Then three weeks ago she found Simon's body next to a packet of


legal highs. After he died MELANIE JONES: A post on Facebook, shared


hundreds of times. Her brothers had been heroin addicts for years, but


Melanie says when they moved on to legal highs their impact was even


more devastating. We could not make sense of the things they were


saying, lots of paranoia, divisional thoughts, psychotic episodes. After


William's death three years ago, Simon became more dependent on legal


highs. As a family we were emotionally torn between trying to


grieve for William and to try to support Simon, so it was a difficult


time for all of us. In the days before his death Simon came to stay


with Melanie and was playing for a while and even wrote on his Facebook


about the upcoming ban on legal highs. But then he got an e-mail


from a company who were selling them. He mentioned an offer that


they were doing and it was three for two, or free delivery of a certain


amount, and he said it feels like a sign. The next day Melanie found her


brother's body. Beside him was a packet of legal highs. I did not say


that at the time, but when the police came they saw this and it was


cherry bomb, a brand of legal high, and that was what this was beside


him. One I saw him I knew he was gone. The legal ban is coming into


force the day after Simon's funeral. We will always have drugs and


addiction problems. These drugs will be legal highs, the same drugs sold


in a different manner. The ban coming into effect is a positive


step so kids are not getting in tights, walking down the high


Street, going next door for a count of energy being and into the shot


next door for a legal high. These are some of the product that from


midnight the night will be illegal to sell either online or in


so-called head shots. The Government is bringing the new law into force


because in the past when it tried to outlaw the particular substance the


manufacturers would tinker with it, creating for illegal purposes an


entirely new one. However, not everyone is convinced this new law


will solve the problem. At this drop-in centre in Birmingham they


have seen the numbers addicted to legal highs rise rapidly. This is


what is collected in this area over the last three years. Many are


addicted to synthetic cannabinoids, but their effects are more like


heroin or crack rather than cannabis. Maybe you take one or two


and people will be keeling over. To ban these things is a good thing,


but that is not the full story. Because the demand will not go away?


The demand will not go away, the reason why people use will not go


away. I smoke it to stop having stomach pains. Kevin had been taking


them for years. They see the effects both on the streets and in jail.


What do they do to your mental health? It has changed a lot of


people. It has destroyed a lot of people. It has made a lot of people


more violent. I got stopped about three weeks ago with a screwdriver.


They are torn about what the effects of the ban will be. We know we will


still be able to get it next week and the week after. We know and


everybody else does, but people still take it. Are you in favour of


it being banned? For what it is doing to people, yes. Britain is


said to have one of the highest rates of legal high usage in the


world, but legal highs are not all the same. Laughing gas in festivals


and nightclubs is one of the substances that will be outlawed. It


can be dangerous, but far less than synthetic cannabinoids. Specific


exemptions in the new law have been written in for alcohol and caffeine.


Here we have... Steven Reid is a user of legal substitutes for drugs


like LSD that are about to be banned. There are whole range of


substances that are currently legal and different substances have vastly


different risk profiles. Things like LSD are extremely safe, but


synthetic cannabinoids seemed to be much more risky and it seems to me


that we need to evaluate each class of substances according to its own


risks and benefits and avoid trying to take this blanket approach. Lots


of the head shots selling legal highs of all descriptions have been


closed down in recent months under pressure from local councils and


trading standards. In Ireland where they passed a similar law six years


ago they had been completely wiped out, but there have only been a


handful of prosecutions. For Melanie and her family the law is already


too late, but having seen both her brothers die and use heroin and


legal highs, she knows which is the most dangerous. If they were still


here today and they were addicted to heroin, it might still have caused


their deaths. But as far as being of healthy mind and still having a


relationship with their family, then, yes, heroin would have been a


much better choice. To discuss the ban on legal highs


here in the studio with me is the Vice journalist and author


of Narcomania, Max Daly, and from Belfast we have


Adele Wallace whose son tragically died last year in April


from taking legal highs. Adele, can you tell us how these


drugs affected Adam? Legal high drugs totally destroyed my son, he


was only 17, and still a child when he was using them. They made him


suicidal, affected him in detrimental ways. He lost everything


that was of value to him, everything precious. To watch your child change


like that, and the aggressive violent side kicked in as well, it


was soul destroying to see this happening before your eyes, and to


actually have to bury your child at 17 for something that was so easily


accessed, so cheap and yet so deadly, it beggars beyond belief.


And as I understand it, he was aware that this was destroying him towards


the end, correct? Yes, but it got to the point where the drugs were so


addictive, the legal highs themselves are so addictive, but


inside there was this little boy that wanted to stop, and he did seek


help on the 9th of April, and very sadly, he had put a status on


Facebook prior to that stating very clearly, my life is hell, it is


miserable, I want to get off these drugs, please don't come near me and


offer me drugs, don't offer me any of them, it isn't that I don't want


to be your friend, but I need to get myself off these. And on the night,


he did seek help and spoke to a clinical psychologist from Cahms,


the child and adult mental health services, but then he took a legal


high on the 13th, it was not a vast amount, one and a half grams, and


they usually only band three grams and upwards, it was shared tween


three, himself and two others, so it wasn't a vast amount between the


three, smoked, but it was enough to kill him. It is heartbreaking. Max,


does everybody agree on the objective that it reducing the


consumption of these things is a good thing? Yes, because a lot of


legal highs now, we are talking synthetic cannabinoids, they are


pretty nasty things. You have reservations about whether banning


is going to actually work or reduce harm, correct? Yes, I understand why


the Government made this new law. There is no way they could have


schoolchildren going into these shops next Mothercare or whatever


and getting extremely potent drugs, it is a ridiculous situation. But,


and it will probably stop some kids from getting hold of these drugs,


the fact that the shops will shut down, I spoke to the owner of a head


shot today, he is shutting down, like most of them will do, and the


other ones will get into vague thing, cigarette gaping. -- vaping.


But what will happen is the more vulnerable users, such as synthetic


weed, they will be on the buy them on the street, because the trade


will immediately swapped from shops to the street, and there was a study


done in Blackburn last year, and a headshot, the city's main one was


shut down by The Authority is, and literally the local crack and heroin


dealer bought up all the stock and started selling it on the streets,


and to attract customers, you started giving away free pies. So


you would say it is worse that way than buying it from a shop? Sales


will continue to the more vulnerable people. Adele, what you think of


that? Do you think Adam, if he hadn't had legal highs, would have,


like so many people, bought a legal highs, and whether just changing the


status from legal to a legal is something that isn't going to be


very material, or is it material? To be honest, Adam was able to access


them from shops and also from drug dealers, so in my opinion, it didn't


make any difference, he was accessing them both, they were both


available, but I personally think the legislation is needed, and


obviously with any legislation there is always room for things to go


underground, because where there is money to be made by ill gotten


gains, people will abuse it. They need more resources to help people


with addiction, because I know for a fact in Northern Ireland there is


not enough resources to help with the amount of addiction, and


especially with legal highs. There is a big volume in demand, and the


services are just not there, because it is rife over here, and it is


prevalent in all communities, causing havoc in every way, and the


worst bit is it is causing massive fatalities. Adele and Max, thank you


very much indeed. Britain may have been arguing


about Europe for decades, but there's one other issue we've


been discussing almost as long. Where to build extra


airport capacity? Do you remember the Roskill


Commission in the '60s that recommended a new airport in


Cublington? Well, that didn't happen


and we are still waiting Heathrow of course, wants


the right to expand. A national hub that has


for decades been at the heart Is this patch of West London,


conveniently close to the centre of the capital, the best place


for a mega world-class airport? With planes having to queue


for much of the time, Heathrow struggles to cope


with overcrowding, and more airlines Nowhere in the world handles as much


traffic on two runways, and last year, a national airports


commission recommended that When we asked for proposals,


we got more than 50, We have concluded that


the north-west runway But the Government has paused


for thought and stalled for time, and says it can't


make up its mind yet. Heathrow is thus


on a charm offensive. Here's the new chairman


of the airport in Liverpool. Turn up the temperature a little bit


and rehearse the arguments again so people understand it's


not just about London. And Heathrow is getting


some support there. The expansion of Heathrow


isn't about Heathrow, it isn't about the south-east,


it's about the whole UK economy. And for us here in Liverpool,


it is about connecting Liverpool to the rest of the world,


and Heathrow can provide Protests over noise,


problems over air pollution, the obstacles to a bigger


Heathrow are formidable. Oh, and they include


the new mayor, Sadiq Khan. I'm quite clear, unlike Boris


Johnson. I don't want to close


down Heathrow Airport. I want it to flourish and thrive,


to be better not bigger. They've made promises in the past


they've failed to deliver. I want the new runway


at Gatwick Airport. The new Heathrow chairman does


at least have the right background He was in charge of the team


organising the London Olympics, and went on to become


Treasury Minister responsible Lord Deighton, the new


chairman of Heathrow. He started as a Goldman Sachs


banker, was chief executive of the London Organising Committee


of the Olympic Games and then became Commercial Secretary


to the Treasury, taking charge of the UK's national infrastructure


plan until last year. Are we going to get a decision soon?


For me, this is about the future of the British economy, and what kind


of economy we want in the 21st-century, what our level of


ambition is. Do we want that airport can -- that can connect us to the


rest of the world? And do you think that they will deliver on the


promise they made before the election last year, when they were


postponing making a decision? We are expecting a decision soon, but they


are very distracted at the moment. Let's look at some of the obstacles.


Night flight, you have said your night flight, six and a half hours


overnight, you will take flight site. You have not promised to do it


in quite the way the airport commission had suggested you would


do it. Is that a problem for you to do it the weather commission said?


We have time to reflect on what commission said, which is leaving a


six on hour window. We have pushed it back the other way to distribute


the benefits so that people who are suffering from planes taking off at


night get just as much respite as the people dealing with early


arrivals in the morning. Out the commission OK with that? 5:30am is


quite an early time for a plane to be making it's way out over London?


It is a lot better than 4:30am. Have the airport commission said that is


OK? What we're going to do is give them the evidence to prove it. But


they set that as a condition and you haven't currently agreed to that


condition strictly. What we have done is said we will bring that in


as soon as we get planning permission, not when we get the


extra runway, so that is a real benefit. Air quality is the thing


that the Government has said is its problem. We have had the vaults


wagon scandal, there has been much more concern about London air


quality than anyone was thinking about two years ago. Ash max the


vaults we at Heathrow will be the leader in


terms of sustainable airports. But that is not the planes, you're


talking about the vans driving around. On air quality specifically,


that is a car and road issue, it is specifically a diesel issue, it is


not a plane issue, so it is whether we drag more cars into the airport,


and in terms of the other surface access to the airport, rail,


bringing in electric cars, we are confident we won't be in breach of


air quality rules. This is a London wide traffic problem, it is not an


air problem. Nightmare for you but, Boris Johnson


becomes Prime Minister, implacably opposed to the third runway at


Heathrow, Sadiq Khan, Mayor of London, also opposed to a third


runway. If that happens, it's gone? There is no third runway? This is


really about the vision you have that the UK economy. You want a


first-rate economy with an airport that actually is competitive? Every


time we defer the decision, the chief executive at ship all sends us


a cake and says thank you, because they are the ones that benefit --


Schipol. Not literally? Literally, because they are acting as our third


runway. But you won't get a third runway at Boris Johnson becomes


Prime Minister. The only question is if he becomes premise in six weeks


or four years. In four years you might have started to build the


runway. I worked closely with Boris on the tree airport, and he thought


that was the vision for the future, but we can explain to him that


Heathrow is the only realistic vision to give us the 21st-century


economy we need. Good luck trying to persuade him! We have met all the


airport commission's conditions on the environment, and that should


make the decision a lot easier. There is a rule if you are in


government that you can't lobby, you can't use the former contact


associates you had in government for two years, so you are now sitting in


a job which is basically a lobbying job trying to persuade Government to


take a third runway, and you are not able to lobby. I am not able to


lobby directly, but there is an enormous amount of other work to do


at Heathrow. The arguments are effectively made for the third


runway, the case has been put out there, it is for the Government now


to make a decision. I have been very focused on making sure that we can


do everything internally to make it possible to make that decision, so


we are ready to go. We have the money ready, the team ready, we have


satisfied the conditions the airport commission laid down, so everything


is ready to go, that is my job. It is then to the Government to make


its decision. Has Britain a problem with infrastructure? The indecision,


the time it takes, look at HS2, Hinkley point, goodness knows if


that will ever happen. Is there something in, what you put that down


to? I think you can draw different lessons from different projects.


Some of course we delivered spectacularly well, we're proud of


the Olympics. Crossrail is going well at the moment, and that project


will effectively expand London, and I would like to do the same


obviously with another runway at Heathrow. The issue is how do you


weigh up the long-term economic benefits which everybody enjoys


against some of the localised costs which of you suffer, and our


political process does spend a long time looking at those short-term


costs. Thank you very much. From one Lord to another.


Lord Sugar, Alan Sugar, of Apprentice fame, has been


appointed as the Government's Enterprise Tsar by


This is his second stint at that role because he did it


for Gordon Brown some years back, but Gordon Brown lost an election,


and Lord Sugar left the Labour Party last year.


As he has been public about his support for remaining


in the EU, one wonders if the timing of his appointment might have been


designed to garner some publicity for his views.


Well, I went to meet him in Westminster earlier today,


to talk business, politics, almost everything in fact.


We began by talking about his new appointment.


I wish to instil entrepreneurial spirit and explain


the apprenticeship opportunities not just to the young people


But you are basically going to be touring the country,


It's very similar to what I've done in the past, obviously.


I think the important thing is for apprentices to take a job


where they are going to learn while they earn, and the Government


has laid on the kind of facilities for them to do this, and employers,


it is important for employers to understand and put


You were of course a member of the Labour Party


until about a year ago, and you left because I think


you felt they had fallen out of love with business far too much.


Yes, that's quite right, and I left at a time before


Jeremy Corbyn was appointed, so it looked like I had some


You are definitely not going to rejoin now, then?


Are you going to join the Conservatives?


You are famous, most famous now in this country among


young people for filling the role of the Apprentice.


Your American counterpart is Donald Trump.


You've likened him to Hitler, I don't have that...


Whoa, you are starting to sound like Piers Morgan.


You don't want to be classed as, you don't want to be categorised


I called him the Pied Piper, actually.


You said there were comparisons to be made, comparisons


How worried are you about Donald Trump?


If I was an American, I would be very, very worried.


Mr Trump considers himself as a great businessman.


I have been in business for 50 years, coming up 50 years now.


I haven't put any companies that I am involved in into insolvency


You may need to look up your facts and just to see what his history is,


and you may need to look up your facts and to see


whether the buildings and the businesses that


bear his name actually have anything at all to do with him.


I understand you are on the side, and I think a lot of businesses


I just wonder if I can ask what you think about the campaign.


A lot of people are saying that the fear factor


of what is meant to happen to us if we come out has been overdone.


I am very concerned about this now, it is getting close


I am very, very concerned, because ordinary people,


what I call ordinary people that I speak to every day


They're not stupid, and they know that they are being frightened


by the Brexit people and frightened by the staying people,


and they really want to understand the reasons why we should either be


staying in or the reasons that they are saying we should go.


Now, my personal view is that this is crazy,


it is absolutely ludicrous we cannot even think about exiting.


These people that are advocating exit, with all due respect to them,


some of them are politicians, there is an ex-mayor,


who has gone off the rails at the moment now.


I had a lot of respect for him until a couple of weeks


ago with the outlandish things he has been saying.


There's 500 million people that we have to sell to,


and we need to ship our goods out, they are our biggest,


You've said some pretty scathing things about George Osborne


"If I were David Cameron, I would think about sacking him."


That was Osborne a few years ago - 2012, you said that.


I am not here for you to bring up a whole host of things that I might


No, but it is fun because you are now working with these guys,


and you said all this stuff about them.


I am taking on a position to promote entrepreneurial spirit


You get this in your head, first of all.


Let me throw the question back to you.


Not looking for a knighthood, I have been Sir Alan.


I am not looking for a peerage, I am a lord.


There is nothing in this for me other than my passion to want


to instill enterprise into people, and whether it is David Cameron


or George Osborne or Jeremy Corbyn or whatever, they should be thankful


that they have got someone like me doing it.


And you are not going to be toeing any party line or told what to say


We heard Nick earlier reporting on arguments on the Leave side


about whether the campaign is in danger of alienating minority


Does a commonwealth heritage make you more inclined to stay


Katie Razzall has the latest of her Referendum Road films now.


She went to the West Midlands to find out.


It's one of Britain's favourite dishes.


Now curry has got mixed up in the EU referendum debate.


Restauranteurs complain that tightened immigration rules stop


them bringing in skilled chefs and other staff from South Asia.


The Leave campaign is promising a vote for Brexit would change that.


They say without open borders to Europe, Britain could re-forge


I was invited to sample the best Bangladesh could offer up by way


of Sutton Coldfield, but do these curry house owners buy


The only reason is the staff shortage.


Do you blame the Government for that?


Definitely the EU, and the second is Government.


Have controlled migration, but it is not all open borders.


We don't know where we stand at the moment.


And if we, obviously with the Commonwealth,


we will get more immigration, migration from there as well.


So you have picked up that message from the Leave campaign?


People coming from Europe, they are no good for us at all.


People who have no experience, people who even could not stand


the smell of aromatic spices, how can you justify to recruit them,


The Prime Minister appeared on the Birmingham-based Sikh Channel


recently arguing the case for Remain.


British and minority ethnic voters could decide this referendum.


According to the British election study, unlike white voters,


who appear evenly split on the issue, two thirds of the BAME


It is going to be largely a Remain vote for many,


Certainly from our programming, we have been out in the Sikh


community and we're getting an overwhelming sense that people


want to stay as a part of the EU, because this issue really


is about segregation and separation, and the Sikh community strongly


believe in one world and one society.


As well as live news and daily prayers, the Sikh Channel is running


a nightly referendum programme up to the vote.


I know Vote Leave has raised the idea that if we stop


being a member of the EU, we will be able to close our


borders, which means we will be able to not take EU migrants necessarily,


and choose to bring people in from the Commonwealth instead.


I don't think it resonates with the Sikh community,


because it seems to be a bit of a shallow argument.


We will replace one type of migration with another type


That doesn't seem to ring true, and if there is any Asian


communities who are supporting that sort of stance, there may


be some self-interest in that they want to see people


from their home countries be preferred.


Long before EU citizens set up home in the UK, immigrants from Britain's


colonies were moving here, filling jobs created


When Britain last held a referendum on Europe, many argued


we were turning our backs on the Commonwealth and those


The Commonwealth diaspora helped make the West Midlands the UK's


most ethnically diverse region outside London,


and it's a key battle ground for the ethnic


I would like to buy this suit for my son, please.


Mrs Chipta and her husband moved to Birmingham from


He worked in a factory, she started her own venture.


Was it you who set up the shop?


Her son now runs the place, and is a keen Outer.


Most of the products that we sell now are manufactured outside


of Europe, so if we were to be able to have trade agreements


with countries like China, with India, with Commonwealth


countries, we would be able to be much more competitive on these goods


We are paying into a club which we personally don't


What I would like is a fair immigration system.


Do you feel there is an irony in the fact that somebody like you,


whose parents came over, you were immigrants originally,


and now you are complaining about new immigrants?


If we had a system which was fair, which went all around the world,


so we get the best people from around the world,


so we are able to get computer programmers from India,


we are able to get nurses, doctors from any of the Commonwealth


countries where they speak our language, they have the same law


system and everything as us, it is much easier.


So immigration isn't the problem, it is the levels of immigration.


Across town at Birmingham's Mack gallery, an exhibition


by Barbara Walker of the contribution made by black


servicemen and women to Britain's Armed Forces.


A visual reminder of our Commonwealth heritage.


But amongst the people we gathered here, all of Caribbean descent,


few saw those links as a decider in the referendum.


Our unity is strength, and if the UK leaves Europe,


So I think it will have a devastating effect on businesses.


I know a lot of people are quite emotional about this,


losing our jobs to people from abroad, but...


When we have historically been the great nation that Britain


managed to carve itself out to be, a big part of that was our link


There was our link to other parts of the world that actually


helped us to gain our strength economically and politically.


I think we are in a different world now.


We don't know what is going to happen if we separate,


and whilst some are arguing that to separate could be better,


that could is a really, really big could.


I'm hopeful that some of the discussions and some


of the things that we will want to change are really about taking


away some of the support mechanisms for people right


If it wasn't for Europe, we wouldn't have the protections


for maternity leave, the 48-hour rule, and if you remove


all the protections, then I fear that those sorts


Older voters are more likely to be for Brexit,


but that is not how Raka Omar sees it.


My grandfather for example came over here in the '60s from Jamaica, so it


took around six weeks to get here, and he really fought for a better


life, and coming here, really working after World War II,


the country was completely dismantled, and helping with others


to put that back together, working in the NHS,


building our country back again to really build a stronger


European Union as well as obviously the UK, to leave that EU


In the more recent past, Britain did things slightly differently,


and therefore we've got a lot more Caribbeans,


a lot more Indians in the UK compared to the other European


countries, and being out of the EU could potentially allow us to build


Will ethnic minority voters decide this referendum?


Operation Black Vote said today one third of Britain's 4 million


or so BAME voters are not actually registered.


Today the organisation released this controversial poster in an attempt


The minority voters' apparent support of Remain


could prove decisive, but only if they turn out to vote.


That is all we have time for this evening.


Kirsty will be presenting tomorrow, and will be talking


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