Browse content similar to 27/06/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
I no longer have confidence in his leadership. | :00:00. | :00:10. | |
Britain's global role remains undiminished. | :00:11. | :00:17. | |
He can hold on like grim death, but I think it will be the death | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
We should hold fast to a vision of Britain... | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
I think we need to go and have the leadership election | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
TRANSLATION: No informal talks about the exit of Great Britain. | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
It's clear now that Project Fear is over. | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
And the country will thank neither the benches in front | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
And I thought I was having a bad day! | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
For indulging in internal factioning manoeuvring at this time. | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
England said it wanted to exit Europe, but not, surely, | :00:51. | :01:10. | |
2-1 down to Iceland - accompanied by the resignation | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
of yet another of national leader in the form of Roy Hodgson. | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
Prepare for an onslaught of Brexit gags - I suggest it maybe wise not | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
to read the sports pages of continental newspapers | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
But the football was not the only drama today. It was also quite | :01:22. | :01:30. | |
a scene in the Commons. The Prime Minister, his tormentors, | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
Jeremy Corybyn was there in the middle of a coup, | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
the Chancellor had come out of hiding too, | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
And Mr Cameron switched out of campaign mode, | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
It was not the result I wanted, nor the outcome I believe is best | :01:43. | :01:50. | |
But there can be no doubt about the result. | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
Of course, I don't take back what I said about the risks. | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
We've already seen there are going to be adjustments | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
with our economy, complex constitutional issues | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
and challenging new negotiation to undertake with Europe. | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
But I am clear, the Cabinet agreed this morning, that the decision must | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
be accepted and the process of implementing the decision | :02:12. | :02:13. | |
in the best possible way must now begin. | :02:14. | :02:25. | |
There was one tiny point in a response to the SNP leader. Listen. | :02:26. | :02:33. | |
Let me say this to him, Scotland benefits from being in two | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
single markets, the United Kingdom and the European single market. | :02:37. | :02:38. | |
In my view, the best outcome is to try and keep Scotland in both. | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
Was he telling us that Britain should be in the single market? | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
That's not what Vote Leave had been saying. | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
But we'll discuss all this and more. | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
Let's focus on the Labour Party first. | :02:55. | :02:55. | |
Last year, it defied the experts, challenged the established order and | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
Has that experiment in new politics worked? | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
Not according to the Parliamentary Labour Party, which is | :03:02. | :03:03. | |
Nor the Shadow Cabinet, which has had | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
The leadership has been fighting back though. | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
Our political editor, Nick Watt, reports. | :03:13. | :03:22. | |
Corbyn in, Tories out! Britain's political earthquake has cost the | :03:23. | :03:32. | |
Prime Minister his job and, tonight, it forced labour's Civil War onto | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
the streets of London. In the worst day of his leadership, Jeremy Corbyn | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
suffered a mass exodus from the Shadow Cabinet. Later, at a bruising | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party, MPs borrowed from the Tory | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
rule book as they embraced regicide. A no-confidence vote will be held | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
tomorrow, prompting a defiant response from Jeremy Corbyn as he | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
addressed a rally of thousands of his supporters in Parliament Square. | :04:00. | :04:10. | |
Era don't Don't let those people who wishes ill... Jeremy Corbyn finally | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
felt at home as he bathed in warm support of his fan base in the | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
Momentum group in Parliament Square. The contrasting perceptions between | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
here and there highlighted the battle lines in the power struggle | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
for the control of the Labour Party. Jeremy Corbyn says it is grassroots | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
members that should decide its future, whereas Labour MPs say it is | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
they, as representatives of the wider electorate, who have the | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
decisive say. He can't be the leader of the Labour Party without having | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
sufficient support, let alone good support, in the Parliamentary Labour | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
Party, nor should you be the leader of the Labour Party if you haven't | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
got the support of the wider membership and the country at large. | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
Any leader of the Labour Party needs to look at themselves closely and | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
say, do I command support in both? If the answer is no, your position | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
is untenable. Newsnight understands that a group of former Labour | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
frontbenchers have been comparing the operation to unseat Jeremy | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
Corbyn four months. They had expected to wait another year, but | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
decided to move after his lacklustre performance in the referendum | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
campaign, a view highlighted by one of the departing frontbenchers. In | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
his performance both during the months leading up to the European | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
referendum and also during the campaign itself, he displayed a lack | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
of understanding of the fundamental issues relating to migration and the | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
economy that were crucial, needed to be communicated and simply weren't. | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
I think we are now in a crisis situation for the country. We have | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
to have an effective opposition. I knew that Jeremy couldn't provide | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
that. Senior Labour figures say there is one simple reason above all | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
else for the coup. They fear that a general election could be held | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
within months and that Corbyn's failure to connect with traditional | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
Labour supporters during the referendum could lead to an | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
electoral wipe-out. You're not talking about one part of the party | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
that is doing something, this extends all across the party, it is | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
serious stuff and totally unprecedented. It's very difficult, | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
I think, for a leader to function for a matter of weeks, let alone | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
into a general election. One veteran says there is rare unity across most | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
of the party. He didn't recognise the scale of the challenge, the | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
special responsibility he has as the leader of the Labour Party. He has | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
lost that pledge that he gave when he first became leader, to lead a | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
broad and inclusive party, instead, he is in a position where he has | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
lost the support of MPs across the political Brett Favre the Labour | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
Party. There is now such contempt for Jeremy Corbyn that his Labour | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
enemies are even briefing that he ended up voting to Leave in the | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
referendum, strenuously denied by his office. One figure at the heart | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
of the Labour referendum campaign hit back at critics by saying the | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
reluctant Remainer, as Corbyn's allies dubbed him, was an asset. | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
Can't argue with the result, in the end, people looked at both arguments | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
and we were unable to convince them to vote Remain. Where Jeremy was is | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
much closer to the electorate than many of us. It took a Bend to | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
trigger the showdown between the leadership and the rest of the | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
Parliamentary party. Jeremy Corbyn's great hero once likened the Labour | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
Party to a burden that needs a left and right wing to fly. Relations are | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
so bad that senior figures are now saying that the bird may split in | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
two. You have more later news? I've been | :07:57. | :08:06. | |
speaking to one of the main coup plotters, they say they are planning | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
to meet tomorrow morning to reach agreement on an agreed candidate but | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
withstand this, as expected, he loses this vote of no-confidence. -- | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
which would stand. Angela Eagle, Dan Jarvis, that is not to say they are | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
willing and ready to stand, but these are the name is gaining some | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
support and they will hopefully get them to stand. It is a change of | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
tactics. Earlier in the day, the plotters were saying they should not | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
stand a candidate, if they did, it would be an indication to Momentum | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
to cause trouble. But things are moving so quickly, they say they | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
need to move as well. You referred to that ugly Parliamentary meeting? | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
It was the worst Parliamentary meeting I have stood outside. I | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
spoke to a current frontbencher and a former member of the Labour | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
cabinet, and they said to me that Jeremy Corbyn was not listening to | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
their message and they think there is only one thing for it, the party | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
will now have to split. I find that unlikely, but that is where you | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
would have the Parliamentary Labour Party doing a unilateral declaration | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
of Independence and they would be the main opposition party. Highly | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
unlikely, but it shows how bad things are. I am joined now by | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
Richard Burden. a prominent ally of Jeremy Corbyn, | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
who appointed him today Did you ever dream when you were | :09:26. | :09:34. | |
elected a year ago, at quite a young age, that he would be shadow Lord | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
Chancellor by now? I have never dreamt much in politics about that | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
position or this position, I just want to do the best for the people | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
and the communities that Labour represents, I haven't given it much | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
thought, the idea of promotion. Rapid promotion. Is it possible that | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
this thing can work, with Jeremy Corbyn clearly not having the | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
support of the Parliamentary party? How does this work? What I would | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
start off by saying is that I am deeply, deeply disappointed, as | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
Labour members and voters across the country, the Conservative government | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
is in trouble, up to its neck, when we have a situation of increased | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
economic and political uncertainty due to the decision to leave the EU, | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
that rather than turning fire on the Conservative government, instead, | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
some Labour MPs have chosen to manufacture an attempt at a | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
leadership coup and put on the front page of the newspaper, not the | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
trouble the Conservatives are in, not to damage the Conservatives are | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
doing to people and communities around the country, but rows in the | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
internal Parliamentary Labour Party on the front pages, I think that is | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
very disappointing. I think it is letting the Conservatives off the | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
hook. What you think Jeremy Corbyn would do if he was a backbench MP | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
and didn't agree with the leadership of his party? Do you think he would | :10:54. | :11:03. | |
be restrained in what he says or how he votes, what he does? There is a | :11:04. | :11:05. | |
difference between principled opposition on this or that policy | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
and an attempt to capsize the whole ship. If Liz Kendall had been | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
elected leader, if Andy Burnham had been elected, if Yvette Cooper had | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
been elected, I would not have been, and my members and people voting for | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
me would not expect me to be, engaging in an attempt to capsize | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
the whole ship. I think it is wrong, I think it is a distraction and | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
letting the Conservatives off the hook. Do you think the party can | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
survive? Nick Ward has been speaking to people whose opinion is that the | :11:34. | :11:44. | |
party was blessed. Can it survive in its current form? What the Labour | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
Party, my colleagues, need to understand is that there is no | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
future for labour as a vehicle to connect with ordinary working people | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
and change the lives of working people the length and breadth of the | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
country, if we return to the politics of what is considered by so | :11:58. | :12:05. | |
many to be the establishment. There is no future for Labour if they | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
return to the political and economic status quo, which saw Labour lose | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
the trust of people. This is about what the Labour Party is about. The | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
lesson of the European Union referendum is that people out there | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
are angry at the political and economic establishment. If people | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
think the way forward for Labour is to return to being perceived as a | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
party of the political and economic establishment, they are seriously | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
mistaken. It would be politically and editorially disastrous. Aren't | :12:40. | :12:41. | |
you saying to people that have profound disagreements with the | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
direction of the party, it is disloyal, you have to agree with us, | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
you can't question it? Jeremy Corbyn would never have done that, he | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
defied the web about 428 times. These people have their consciences, | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
just as you have yours and there is no reason why they should support | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
someone they just don't support. The truth is, Jeremy Corbyn was elected | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
with an overwhelming majority, the biggest mandate that any political | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
leader in British history has been elected upon. He has only been in | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
position for nine months. We have had four victories in the | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
Parliamentary by-elections, in three of which we increased the Labour | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
share of the votes. We won four mayoral elections. On the European | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
referendum, Jeremy Corbyn saying that it is not ideal, but on balance | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
we should change it in favour of ordinary people and make it more | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
democratic, that resonated more with the electorates than some of those | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
criticising them, who thought the way forward in working class areas | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
in the north-east and elsewhere was ticked people that the European | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
Union was perfect, nobody believed it. You have to admit that Jeremy | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
Corbyn is a radical, more than the British mainstream. To make it work | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
from that position, in a general election, you would have to be | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
supremely confident and supremely united around a position that you | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
are taking. That is just not the impression your party is giving now. | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
Do you really think you could win a general election before the end of | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
this year with the Shadow Cabinet having deserted the leader and with | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
Jeremy Corbyn still in place? A new Shadow Cabinet is in place. When you | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
talk about Jeremy Corbyn being radical, I don't think there is | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
anything radical about proposing a ?10 an hour minimum wage, I don't | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
think there's anything radical about proposing a massive building | :14:31. | :14:32. | |
programme of council houses, I don't think there is anything radical in | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
thinking that Britain made a huge mistake in getting involved in the | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
Iraq war. We can win the next general election. But if we don't, | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
then I think some people need to ask themselves this question, did it | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
help or harm Labour, did it help or harm the people of Labour, the | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
people that they represent, manufacturing a leadership row, | :14:55. | :14:57. | |
letting the Tories off the hook and basically making the news story | :14:58. | :14:59. | |
divisions in the Parliamentary Labour Party, not the mess the | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
Conservative government is making of this country? | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
If he loses a motion of no confidence, does he step down and go | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
to another contest, what happens at that point? First of all, we | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
shouldn't have a leadership contest. There's more important things to do. | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
We should be focussing our fire on the Conservatives. If Labour MPs go | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
through with it, and vote no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
tomorrow, then I think they've got to understand that in order to | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
remove Jeremy Corbyn, the duly elected Labour leader nine months | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
ago with a huge mandate, they have to take part in a democratic | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
process. All the candidates who stood for Labour, at the last | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
leadership election, said they wanted to empower members. We | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
shouldn't be seeking to silence members or disrespect the democratic | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
choice that they made. You're implying that he can limp on. I'm | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
not implying anything about limping. If Jeremy Corbyn has to stand in a | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
leadership election and he is prepared to do so, there's a very | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
good chance of Jeremy Corbyn being re-elected as leader of the Labour | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
Party. If he is, what MPs should do then is what they should be doing | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
now, which is ending the in-fighting, end the the inward | :16:19. | :16:21. | |
looking behaviour and focussing on the real enmy the Conservative | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
Government doing so much harm to people and public services in this | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
country. Thanks ever so much, sorry about that annoying ear piece. No | :16:29. | :16:29. | |
problem, thank you. Now, the plan had been to take up 14 | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
weeks for a new leader to be selected, rather more than the five | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
days it took, when Margaret But the 1922 Committee, | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
which governs the leadership election, decided to expedite that | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
timetable by a month, so a new leader will be in place | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
by the 2nd of September. And to meet that deadline, | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
the candidates have to declare themselves by this Thursday, | :16:50. | :16:51. | |
so the race is on. Emily has been looking | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
at the likely runners. I will do everything I can as Prime | :16:55. | :17:04. | |
Minister to steady the ship over the coming weeks and months, but I do | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
not think it would be right for me to try to be the captain that steers | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
our country to its next destination. The naught cull metaphors that | :17:15. | :17:17. | |
emerge from a Prime Minister close to tears sounded appropriately | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
seafaringly British, that extraordinary morning. Sure enough | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
the search for that captain began in earnest this week. The party of | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
Government, riven by its war over Europe, now has to try harder than | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
ever to put division behind it. The question is two fold: Who can unify | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
and who can win, each useless without the other. Gold Medal. It's | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
no secret that Boris Johnson wants the job. But can the zip wire | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
drifter, laughed at by the French, pull it off? He can certainly be | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
serious. I think he increased his stature during the campaign. He did | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
very well before the Treasury Select Committee answering some very | :17:57. | :17:58. | |
difficult questions over an extended period. He showed that he'd gone up | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
a level in people's estimation in the debates. Can he be a unifying? | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
That takes two to tango. We'll see what the losing side wants. He's | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
currently the runaway favourite, an irony not lost on his colleagues. | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
I'm a veteran of three leadership cam painings. I can tell you this -- | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
campaigns, I can tell you this - the favourite never wins. You don't | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
think it's going to be him? I think he's an admirable candidate. He will | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
be one of many. If you're telling me he's the favourite, I'm telling you | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
that the favourite never wins. Boris Johnson is the candidate the party | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
goes to for its adrenaline fixed described by one MP as a four-year | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
ride on a big dipper. I understand he has the backing of Rupert Murdoch | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
and that may count for a lot. He's been described by some in his own | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
party as "a little bit grubby" his self-interest never too far from the | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
surface. Don't be surprised if the see a stop Boris campaign gathering | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
momentum too. Heidi Allen is backing anyone but. For me it is clear that | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
it was a leadership bid for Boris. Even as recent as February he was | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
saying that a Brexit vote would cause uncertainty for business and | :19:16. | :19:17. | |
Government shouldn't be distracted with these things. It seemed obvious | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
that this was about his desire to be leader rather than putting the | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
country first. When a man is leading a campaign that stands in front of a | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
great red butt that says ?350 million for the NHS then says maybe | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
not, that does not set us on the right path to change the | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
relationship we have with voters. You don't think people can trust | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
Boris? I would ask them to consider whether he has the qualities they | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
want in a leader. Looking for that transparency and having people trust | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
us again. My in-box is in melt down predominantly people who wanted to | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
remain and those who voted to Leave and feel duped and felt that they | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
were sold a pup. In politics, I know we're sales people. Do you trust the | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
manifesto, do you trust the things we're saying? On this occasion, it's | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
gone too far. He stood in front of that campaign, for that reason, | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
people will have lost faith in him. She's not the only one with her | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
doubts about Boris Johnson. This speech was uploaded onto the | :20:17. | :20:23. | |
internet's biggest porn site labelling him Britain's dumbest | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
blonde. Theresa May is expected to put her name in the ring. I think | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
she's a very formidable woman and I think because maybe she's quite shy, | :20:34. | :20:41. | |
a lot of people don't see her as, you know, she's not out there | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
smiling, she's shy and she's very focussed. I think we need somebody | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
as serious as Theresa May, who knows her stuff and knows Brussels. | :20:49. | :21:00. | |
An tray Leadson may put her name in too. We heard from the Chancellor | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
this morning, George Osborne. It will not be plain sailing in the | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
days ahead. Statesman like, but sombre, the man who once saw his | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
chance of leading the country riding high, now accepts he's more likely | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
to have to follow in behind a former rival. The Brexit budget may have | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
disappeared from the rhetoric, but he was determined not to row back | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
from, he would say, from a single one of those doom-laden prophecies. | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
He's weighing up right now whether he could work for Boris Johnson | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
perhaps as Foreign Secretary or even for Theresa May, but there's little | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
love loss there. Whatever the choices they need to be fast. Any | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
names not submitted to the ballot by Thursday won't be in the ring for | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
the leadership. That perhaps is key. One Remainor tells me this can't | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
look like an ey based beauty contest. The country is looking to | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
the Government at a time of national crisis. The demand for grown ups, | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
what that means, is high. Any late developments on the Tory | :22:01. | :22:10. | |
leadership front? I had a long conversation with one of George | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
Osborne's oldest friends today. He told me that he is not going to | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
stand in this Tory leadership contest, and if you pick up a copy | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
of the Times you will see an article by George Osborne saying precisely | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
that. This friend said to me at the moment George Osborne is not | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
planning to endorse anyone. But he still wants a role in the next | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
Government. He is leaning towards Boris Johnson and I think we hear | :22:35. | :22:36. | |
mention of the Foreign Office possibly. He could go down that | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
route. It's interesting when Boris Johnson launches his campaign later | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
this week, you will hear him say, I am the unity candidate. I can bring | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
together Remain and Levy. That is why he's reaching -- Leave. He is | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
reaching out by mad to the Remain camp. He would love George Osborne | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
on board. There will be a big Stop Boris campaign. The person being the | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
biggest beneficiary will be Theresa May. | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
The Times suggesting that Theresa May has had a surge in support if | :23:08. | :23:09. | |
the last few days. When the dust settles, | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
the big issue will be what is our relationship | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
with the EU, and how is that going Essentially there are three broad | :23:16. | :23:17. | |
outcomes: That we leave properly, | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
exiting the EU and the single market and that we no longer | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
have free movement. That we half leave by going | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
into the European Economic Area, That's outside the EU, | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
but in the single market And then - which must | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
be least likely - There are also three roads | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
to those destinations - Parliament and Government | :23:41. | :23:49. | |
could make the decision. MPs would probably choose Norway | :23:50. | :23:51. | |
at this point, if they could. Then there's the possibility | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
of a general election to decide, with parties pitching | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
their view to the voters - the Lib Dems for example have said | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
they'll campaign to Then there's the second referendum | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
option, that we talk to the Europeans, and have | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
a vote at the end of it. Lots of destinations and ways of | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
getting there. Chris Cook has been thinking | :24:13. | :24:21. | |
about the practical and legal questions over the journey | :24:22. | :24:23. | |
on which we are soon to embark. Brexit will be one of the most | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
complex, all-consuming tasks facing any British Government | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
since the war. And, right now, there are 1,000 | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
different combinations and permutations about how it | :24:36. | :24:37. | |
might play out. So, it's worth focusing on just | :24:38. | :24:39. | |
a few of the biggest moving The first of these moving parts | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
is something called Article 50. That's Article 50 of the treaty that | :24:43. | :24:52. | |
underpins the European Union. What that provides for is | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
a process by which a member But it's important to know | :24:56. | :24:57. | |
a few details about it. First of all, once we formally | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
invoke Article 50, there will be a two-year period for us | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
to negotiate our exit, In fact, we are not | :25:06. | :25:07. | |
going to invoke that until we have a new Prime Minister | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
over there in Downing Street. But there is an argument about | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
whether the new Prime Minister, on their own, will actually be | :25:18. | :25:19. | |
allowed to invoke Article 50, or whether it will have to be | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
put through Parliament. So, could a Prime Minister | :25:23. | :25:24. | |
invoke Article 50 without For the Prime Minister to do that | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
would involve the executive, in effect, overruling | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
an act of Parliament. The European Communities Act is | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
what keeps us in the European Union. By invoking Article 50, | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
in effect, the Prime Minister is saying, actually, | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
no longer will this act have force. That is quite a proposition, | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
for the executive to So, I think there are profound | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
constitutional and public law The courts may be asked | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
to give a view on this. The current Prime Minister today | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
didn't. The issue for triggering Article 50, | :26:05. | :26:06. | |
the decision will be for the next Prime Minister and the next Cabinet | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
and the arrangements they put Given that the Commons and Lords | :26:11. | :26:12. | |
are both pro-Remain, passing a vote may prove a hurdle in itself, | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
especially if MPs think the plans for Brexit are not | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
what voters expect. The second issue here is legitimacy, | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
or how do you get a democratic mandate for the deal | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
we eventually negotiate? A lot of people voted | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
Leave because they want If we get a deal like Norway's, | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
we'll get good access to the single market at the cost of not really | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
controlling EU immigration. So how do you get a new mandate | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
to negotiate that? Some people are discussing a second | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
referendum, perhaps Others, a snap general election | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
in the next few months. If there were an election, | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
the new Prime Minister could include principles of negotiation | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
in their platform, other parties might stand on staying in, | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
but still, there's room for voters There's a problem with securing | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
a democratic mandate Basically you're choosing | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
between seeking a democratic mandate before you start negotiating, | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
before you invoke Article 50, at which point we can't possibly | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
know what the deal is going to be. Or at the end of the process, | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
when time is running out, and you may be choosing | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
between what is a not very attractive deal | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
to leave or no deal at all. Some people have put forward | :27:36. | :27:38. | |
scenarios where the Article 50 declaration is delayed | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
or never comes. It's important to remember a third | :27:42. | :27:43. | |
moving part - the economy. The Treasury will get quite worried | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
if there are long delays, because delays mean uncertainty, | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
uncertainty about our future trading Uncertainty about our immigration | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
policy and all of that will depress business activity and investment | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
in the UK from abroad in particular. There are other moving | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
parts, like devolution. The other legislatures | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
cannot block Brexit, but problems in the peace process | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
will need addressing. So will an appetite for | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
Scottish independence. Article 50, the mandate and | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
the economy will determine a lot. Well, earlier I spoke | :28:19. | :28:26. | |
to Chris Grayling. I began by asking him | :28:27. | :28:28. | |
whether all models of being outside think we have a number of priorities | :28:29. | :28:47. | |
as we going to negotiation. Clearly, we want the best possible deal for | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
the United Kingdom in terms of trade. I think that is common sense | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
because we are the biggest customer of the European Union, 16% of | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
exports, it is in their interest they keep access to our market. | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
Clearly we got a mandate from the people last week to set limits on | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
the amount of people that come to live and work in the United Kingdom. | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
Above all, this was a close result so we have to be certain as we going | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
to negotiation, we are mindful of the fact that people expect us to | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
stay an outward facing, internationalist country and we want | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
to be good friends and neighbours of the European Union, even though | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
we're not going to be part of what they are doing. I tell you why I | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
ask, Boris Johnson, his piece in the Telegraph, he talked about how | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
British people will still be able to go and work in the EU, to live, to | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
travel, to study, to buy homes and settle down. That sounded like he | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
was potentially embracing a model that might allow free movement, | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
isn't it? Isn't that what he's saying? The key point is the ability | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
to control. We are not in the business of saying to people, you | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
cannot move around the world, you cannot come to United Kingdom to | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
work, you cannot come here if you have got a job. One of the things we | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
shouldn't have a 77,000 people a year from within the European Union | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
turning up in the United Kingdom just to look for a job. Even the | :30:07. | :30:17. | |
Prime Minister in the past has said that shouldn't happen. That is one | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
of the things we should be looking at as we go through this process. I | :30:21. | :30:22. | |
think it is really important, given the fact it is a close result, given | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
the fact that we all don't want to become Little Britain, we want to be | :30:27. | :30:28. | |
doing new deals around the world, we don't want to be part of a European | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
integrationist project, but we want to be good friends and neighbours. | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
If MPs believe the Norway option, which means you out of the EU, you | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
are in the single market, but you do have free movement of European | :30:42. | :30:48. | |
citizens, is that illegitimate? I MPs not allowed to vote for that or | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
ask the government to vote for that? Is it somehow out of bounds? | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
Parliament is ultimately sovereign. The clear message from all sides of | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
the Commons this afternoon, as we discuss the issues that arise from | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
us visit's referendum result, is that we have clear instructions from | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
the British people. They have given us a message that say we want to be | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
outside the European Union, we don't want to be little Britain, but we do | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
want the ability to set controls on the not people that come in. I'm | :31:17. | :31:24. | |
just trying to work out, trying to work out a membership of the single | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
market is still on the table all whether that is now being ruled out? | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
As I say, membership of the single market is a phrase, what is the | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
objective, what has the plan been, what will it be now? It is to do | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
what is in the best interests of the United Kingdom. That is to ensure | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
that our businesses can continue selling goods and services in the | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
European Union and vice versa. Whatever you call it, that is the | :31:48. | :31:56. | |
important thing. We have heard from the German CBI, they want us to | :31:57. | :31:59. | |
carry on trading normally, it is in all of our interests that should | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
happen. The other day, Daniel Hannon drew a distinction between free | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
movement of people and labour. Is that something you would agree with? | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
There were clear messages to Government about the approach they | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
want us to take, they want us to leave the European Union, they want | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
controls over immigration, they want to negotiate trade deals around the | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
world. These are the messages we got from the referendum. The Government | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
needs to sit down in a careful, methodical way, planning how we do | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
that and how we get the best agreements with our partners for the | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
future. Boris Johnson says we will still be able to work, travel and | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
live in the rest of the EU, even though he doesn't say they will be | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
allowed to do that here. Would it not have been better if we had | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
actually had... If you like, we had nailed down a core vision of what | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
the outlook would look like? When you take the travel issue, I would | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
expect little to be able to travel normally, as they do now, take | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
holidays like they do. He said to live, to work, travel, study, by | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
homes and settle down? These are things you can do around the world, | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
not just in the European Union. It is normal for people to be up to | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
move around sensibly, if they can sort themselves out in terms of | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
money, if they want to go where they want to go on holiday, it happens | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
all over the world. Hilux going to be supporting Boris Johnson as | :33:20. | :33:29. | |
leader? Yourself, maybe? I am not putting my hat into the ring, I am | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
not making clear what I will do as part of a leadership campaign. | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
If you earn your living in the City, it was another exhilarating day. | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
Our business editor, Helen Thomas, is with me. | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
It was another really ugly day in the markets. The pound dropped | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
again, down to its lowest level since 1985. In the stock markets, | :33:53. | :33:59. | |
the FTSE 100 is flaring up quite well. It is really the FTSE 250, | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
where the damage has been done. It is more reflective of the UK | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
economy. It is now down 15%. That is since the referendum. Late in the | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
day, another blow, Standard Poor's, the credit rating agency, | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
downgraded the UK, stripped us of the triple a rating. That badges the | :34:20. | :34:26. | |
gold standard, we have had it since 1978. We clung onto it, all the way | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
through the financial crisis and now it has gone. How significant is | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
that? You can think of a credit rating of the indication of the | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
likelihood of default. Lower rating means higher borrowing costs, | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
sometimes. Nobody thinks the UK Government is going to default on | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
its debts, borrowing costs have fallen in recent days. But you can | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
also think about the credit rating as an indication of how attractive a | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
place is to invest. In that contest, that context, it is pretty damning. | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
It talks about reassessing the institutional framework of the UK, | :35:02. | :35:08. | |
that a polite way of saying it is falling apart at the seams. It is | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
pretty gloomy on the outlook confidence for growth. They think | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
our membership of the European Union helped the standing of the pound, | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
helped enhance London's position as a financial centre and helped | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
attract investment. The risk is, in their view, it starts to unravel. | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
If we in Britain are confused about exactly what we want | :35:27. | :35:28. | |
in the Article 50 world, it's not impossible | :35:29. | :35:30. | |
There are 27 other members who have to agree on a line. | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
Our diplomatic editor, Mark Urban, has been on the continent | :35:37. | :35:38. | |
since the referendum trying to find out where the debate | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
It's Monday, so it must be Berlin, where the big beasts of the EU | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
Since I started this, one thing has become very clear, there are a lot | :35:47. | :35:59. | |
of people, institutions, countries, that have a lot of grudges against | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
Britain due to all sorts of past battles, the Cameron package that | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
was negotiated earlier this year, all sorts of reasons. They are | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
delighted that Britain is leaving and they are effectively saying, can | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
we help you with your bags? That includes Jean-Claude Juncker, the | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
head of the European Parliament, and we have had statements from the | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
leaders of France, Italy and Belgium, which I think you could | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
also put in that category. What has been less evident, what I was | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
expecting to see, was the emergence of a more understanding camp, some | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
helpful remarks from the leader of Poland today, but apart from that we | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
haven't really seen that emerge. Of course, not all EU members are | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
created equal, whether it is one almighty powerful one at the centre | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
of the alliance, now defining the policy of the 27, Germany. It is | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
quite clear from interventions they have already made, they are going to | :36:52. | :36:52. | |
be key players in this. The annual German-French | :36:53. | :37:02. | |
People's Festival has been It started when Europe's | :37:03. | :37:04. | |
old adversaries were becoming friends and a Franco-German engine, | :37:05. | :37:11. | |
or partnership, powered the EU. But, these days, the French troops | :37:12. | :37:18. | |
are long gone from Berlin and that alliance doesn't seem | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
quite so equal, either. And Germans also are taking | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
potshots at the EU. Arno owns this stall, | :37:26. | :37:38. | |
and he is quite a Eurosceptic. He wants the Deutschmark back | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
and urges his leader not to be too But in the rest of Germany, | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
there are other ideas about how best Many of those around | :37:45. | :38:22. | |
Chancellor Merkel reject leniency, arguing if Britain is leaving, | :38:23. | :38:34. | |
it needs to say what it wants From outside to Britain, | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
you see a Prime Minister who wants You see potential candidates | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
for a succession of him. They also say they don't want to, | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
they hesitate concerning that thing. The parliament is saying nothing | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
on that, therefore we are At this architect's office | :38:51. | :38:52. | |
in Berlin, they'd like a plan, too. It's a German outpost | :38:53. | :39:05. | |
of a British firm and, already, they are worried about potential | :39:06. | :39:07. | |
clients having their confidence undermined and the effect | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
on their mixed German They won't make it easy for Britain | :39:11. | :39:12. | |
to negotiate deals. I think the companies | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
will somehow take a hit, like we will take | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
the hit and carry on. It's just a shame, basically, | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
to make it also difficult. I'm not talking about the business | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
relationships here, talking about personal | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
relationships as well. Especially if, like every | :39:34. | :39:35. | |
company that has branches abroad, there is a lot | :39:36. | :39:37. | |
of personal lives involved. As for Germany's continued exports | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
to Britain, the prediction of economic experts here | :39:42. | :39:48. | |
is of a slight drop, The real crux of coming negotiations | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
will be political and nobody expects The UK is in a very bad | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
bargaining position. The only thing it can do now is, | :39:59. | :40:06. | |
we are going to postpone the process, and therefore impose | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
so much pain on ourselves that you That is a very destructive process, | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
and, ultimately, the UK will have to pay the price for keeping some | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
relationship to the euro area So, I doubt it will get | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
a very favourable deal. When it came to how and when those | :40:25. | :40:35. | |
negotiations might start, it was to Berlin that the French | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
and Italian leaders came today. President Hollande gave the distinct | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
impression that Britain couldn't be TRANSLATION: Nothing | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
is worse than uncertainty. Uncertainty gets in the way | :40:47. | :40:55. | |
of political decisions. It also gets in the way | :40:56. | :40:57. | |
of financial decisions. Matteo Renzi says anything less | :40:58. | :41:04. | |
than a speedy Brexit would be Britain shouldn't be bounced out, | :41:05. | :41:06. | |
and will choose its own TRANSLATION: We agree that Article | :41:07. | :41:14. | |
50 of the European treaties The member state wanting to leave | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
the European Union has to apply to the European Council and, | :41:21. | :41:33. | |
before this application, So, they departed, having set | :41:34. | :41:35. | |
the stage for tomorrow's The Merkel view, for the time being, | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
is holding that Britain should be allowed time to change its mind | :41:42. | :41:50. | |
before it invokes Article 50. But once that happens, | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
the real challenge for the Germans will be whether the other allies | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
agree to the sort of terms they would want to give Britain | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
on the outside. Within the market is a harmonised | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
market, with the four liberties, you can move your money as you want, | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
you can move goods where you want, you can do services where you want | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
and you have the free movement Taking some things out | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
of the single market, only to keep Britain in the single | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
market, I think this At the German-French festival | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
on Berlin's outskirts... An entertainer belts out | :42:26. | :42:39. | |
the hits from yesteryear. The old refrains about the benefits | :42:40. | :42:48. | |
of EU membership were wearing But the latest polling suggests few | :42:49. | :42:50. | |
Germans want to walks Instead, Chancellor Merkel has | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
public support to get the UK's divorce over with as quickly | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
and cleanly as possible, as Germany, increasingly, | :43:03. | :43:04. | |
sets the tone for Back on Thursday night, | :43:05. | :43:05. | |
results night, the first declaration came from Gibraltar | :43:06. | :43:15. | |
and it was the Remain side's best Gibraltarians worry that Brexit | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
might upset the delicate relationship they have with Spain, | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
which lost the territory in 1704 and would rather | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
like to have it back. Gabriel Gatehouse has been talking | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
to the Chief Minister of Gibraltar, including on one idea, | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
that parts of the EU might stay in the EU, | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
while other parts leave. If there is one part | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
of the UK that definitely, definitely doesn't want to leave | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
the European Union, it is this. Less than ten miles from the coast | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
of North Africa, Gibraltar voted There are 30,000 people living | :43:54. | :43:55. | |
on the Rock, only 823 of them said Gibraltar is more pro-European | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
than anywhere in Britain. Newsnight has learned that | :44:03. | :44:13. | |
Gibraltar's government is working on a plan to stay in the union, | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
and it's looking for allies. In his first broadcast interview | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
since the referendum, the territory's Chief Minister told | :44:21. | :44:22. | |
us he was talking to Scotland's Nicola Sturgeon | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
about various options. Well, there are potential | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
different formulas out there. This is like a kaleidoscope that has | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
not yet settled. One of them may be the formula that | :44:34. | :44:35. | |
Denmark used in the 1970s before the Lisbon Treaty and before Article | :44:36. | :44:38. | |
50 was even invented, to simply strip out a part | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
of the territory that doesn't want to stay part | :44:43. | :44:44. | |
of the European Union. The member state is still defined | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
as Denmark, but it no I can imagine a situation where some | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
parts of what is today the member state United Kingdom are stripped | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
out and others remain. That means that we don't have | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
to apply again for access, we simply remain with the access | :45:00. | :45:01. | |
that we have today and those parts that leave are then given | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
a different sort of access, which is negotiated, | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
but not necessarily under The governments of Gibraltar | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
and Scotland may share a desire to stay in the EU, | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
but on the subject The SNP wants independence, | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
Gibraltarians almost without exception want | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
to remain part of Britain. Immediately after the referendum, | :45:22. | :45:24. | |
Spain raised the issue The Spanish flag on the Rock | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
is closer than it was before, Now, that is absolute anathema | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
to almost everyone here. London has reiterated its commitment | :45:34. | :45:40. | |
to Gibraltar, but the Foreign Secretary said that the territory's | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
interests will be harder to protect Anybody that thinks this is a time | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
to propose joint sovereignty or they are going to get any | :45:48. | :45:56. | |
millimetre of advantage in respect to the sovereignty of Gibraltar | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
is completely wrong. 10,000 Spanish workers cross | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
into Gibraltar every day. They and the Gibraltarians have | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
been reassured nothing But the reality is that, | :46:08. | :46:10. | |
at the moment, no-one really knows how Brexit will play | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
itself out here. Earlier, I spoke to Kristalina | :46:17. | :46:25. | |
Georgieva, the vice president of the European Commission, | :46:26. | :46:27. | |
the executive body of the EU. I began by asking her | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
whether she regretted the UK wasn't offered an emergency brake on free | :46:31. | :46:33. | |
movement, In the discussions that have taken | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
place, every effort has been made by the Commission to offer a deal | :46:37. | :46:44. | |
that is fair for the United Kingdom and for the rest | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
of the European Union. At that process, we thought we'd got | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
to a point when the Prime Minister of UK had something good to offer | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
to its people. But my impression is that | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
during the debates around Brexit, this deal disappeared, | :47:04. | :47:10. | |
nobody talked about it. The issues that have been discussed | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
actually had nothing to do The 27 members, the Commission, | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
you guys, do you think you will now look into your souls and say - | :47:17. | :47:23. | |
we need to listen more? And we need to take account | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
of the scepticism that is running not just in the UK but across | :47:27. | :47:34. | |
other countries too? We are facing an existential | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
challenge as a union. We ought to make it possible | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
for those of us, that want to and have to integrate | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
further to do it and for those who want to be losing | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
union to also do it. This is not at all easy, | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
but with or without Brexit, this Of course, we need to continue | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
to look into the mirror and ask ourselves, what is it that we can | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
do better for Europe How long do you think these | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
negotiations, the divorce negotiation, how long | :48:08. | :48:16. | |
is this going to take - In the end of these two years, | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
one of two things will happen - either negotiations are completed | :48:20. | :48:28. | |
and then there is a new relation or there may be a need | :48:29. | :48:30. | |
for prolongation, but for that, there has to be unanimity among | :48:31. | :48:38. | |
the heads of government of the European Union, | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
the 27 and of course, the UK. We only can, at this point of time, | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
wait for the clock to start ticking and then, roll our sleeves and work | :48:48. | :48:56. | |
together for the best possible outcome we can get | :48:57. | :49:04. | |
under the circumstances. No punishment, no trying to hurt | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
the UK in order to teach We are witnessing such a turmoil | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
at the moment that the least we can do is just to keep calm | :49:11. | :49:17. | |
and try to resolve a very difficult problem for | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
the benefit of all our people. The wish of all of us | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
is that we bring a resolution that is as positive as it can be | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
under very difficult circumstances. The Polish Foreign Minister, | :49:31. | :49:40. | |
whose name I'm not going to try to pronounce, has blamed | :49:41. | :49:43. | |
the commission for a lot going wrong and said, | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
you know, this is a crisis He wants to downgrade | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
the Commission. I think he's suggested that | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
Jean-Claude Juncker should resign as a result of everything | :49:57. | :49:58. | |
that has happened. Do you have some sympathy | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
with his analysis? You know, my sympathy is with us | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
all of us, we are facing a very The financial markets are telling us | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
that they're very nervous around I think last we need is more turmoil | :50:09. | :50:15. | |
and more finger pointing. It would be healthiest | :50:16. | :50:24. | |
if we are to concentrate on the universe of problems we have | :50:25. | :50:27. | |
to solve and work together Let's reflect on where we are his | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
evening, at 11.20pm. I'm joined by Zoe Williams | :50:32. | :50:41. | |
of the Guardian and Tom Newton-Dunn, Can Jeremy Corbyn survive? You say | :50:42. | :50:56. | |
that like we rehearsed it (! ) It depends what you mean by "survive". | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
I don't think he's going to go quietly. I don't think he will | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
submit to the vote of no confidence. I don't think he will allow a new | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
leadership election without his name on the ticket. But do I think he's | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
going to end up victorious in the long run? No, I don't. Is this a | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
fight to the death of the Labour Party, then, Tom, is that what the | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
plan is, they're each going to go on wrestling into the mud? It's a rock | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
and a very hard place coming together. It's incredibly hard to | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
see how on earth anyone can win all this. There has to be a final death | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
of one or the other. There are candidates who could be unity | :51:35. | :51:43. | |
candidates? That is a classic suggestion, this person who never | :51:44. | :51:46. | |
upsets anybody, she's a good candidate. You cannot have, you | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
know, what the people who voted for Jeremy Corbyn want is a Pablo | :51:51. | :51:58. | |
Iglesias, they want a left-wing, big ideas, new model person. I | :51:59. | :52:00. | |
completely understand and support that. I don't think Jeremy Corbyn | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
has been it. But I do not think what we're looking at is the rock and the | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
hard place. We're not looking at Blairites versus the far left any | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
more. We're looking at a huge number of people who the Corbyn camp would | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
say don't even have skin in the game because they're not Blairites. | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
They're not labourites either. They're from all over the place. Who | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
is your candidate, who do you want? You have to have a Plan B before you | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
reject Plan A. You know I hate committing but I would be delighted | :52:30. | :52:36. | |
to see Lisa Nandy standing. I would be delighted for Starmer tarp to | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
stand. Is there a -- Keir Starmer standing. Who else is there? Dan | :52:41. | :52:52. | |
Jarvis, Chukka. I don't think you're talking about moderates. Who would | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
you call that lot then? The whole conception of what moderation is has | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
changed so much that people who previously would have been seen as | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
on the right of the party or on the nothing of the party, Dan Jarvis is | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
on the nothing of the party. On the subject of moderates, there has been | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
chatter about hey, why don't the right of the Labour Party and the | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
left of the Conservative Party they're all Remainors, why not get | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
together and create a new force in the centre. It's a wonderful idea. | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
We have this debate once every two years in politics. We had the purple | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
party, blues and yellows come together. A grand coalition. Why | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
does it not happen? Two reasons: One, the SDP, everybody remembers | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
what happens to them. I actually don't. Older people like us do. Two, | :53:40. | :53:46. | |
there is no base. Activists are generally on one side, the Tory | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
activists are quite right-wing, Labour activists more left-wing. | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
No-one's in the middle to go out, deliver your leverlets. You don't | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
need to deliver leaflets now. You need a bit of that. Here's the | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
thing, I don't think we're talking about the left of the Tories and the | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
right of the Labour here. When you talk about people who wanted to | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
Remain it's not a left-right issue. It's a huge question and many of us | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
are devastated by the result. We're devastated not from a left-wing | :54:17. | :54:19. | |
point of view from a sheer vandalism point of view. You could create an | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
alliance of people who felt that this was an incredibly vandalistic | :54:24. | :54:33. | |
act. So elect us and we stay in the EU. You get over the EU thing, at | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
some point we get over the EU thing and then you have left, right, | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
austerity versus spending. You're speaking as though this would be a | :54:43. | :54:45. | |
disaster because it would be chaotic. Look what we're in now - we | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
don't have a Prime Minister or a leader of the Opposition. Could | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
Labour campaign and say, let's stay in? Is that plausible? I think it's | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
extremely dangerous. Clearly it's plausible. You get on extremely well | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
with Zoe and others, they risk doing a Scotland - And you lose them all. | :55:05. | :55:10. | |
We have 40 seconds on the Conservative party. Can they be, can | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
they heal this more easily than Labour's problems? The obvious route | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
for them to heal it, I cannot see what, how they would make it work if | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
they elect Theresa May because Boris is such a divisive and toxic figure | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
- I don't see how they make it work. They have a spurt of energy. It will | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
be bitter and bloody, they will because of power. They love power. | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
Ministers want to be ministers and that's going to be enough to get | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
them to shut up eventually. They're always in power, they're just only | :55:42. | :55:44. | |
sometimes in office. That's philosophical. To be continued. | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
That's all we have time for. I'm back in the chair tomorrow, until | :55:48. | :56:00. | |
then, have a very good night. It's hard to believe we're entering | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
into the final few days of June with no sign of any significant settled | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
summer-like weather, in fact plenty of rain to come across the bulk of | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
the country over the next few days, the heaviest is | :56:14. | :56:14. |