29/06/2016 Newsnight


It is Brexit plus six. Jeremy Corbyn is feeling the heat. Members are angry. Tories are eyeing Number 10. The French are talking free movement. The Scots want to stay.

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Question - what do we want from Brexit?


We'll ask how realistic our aims and ambitions are.


We'll hear from Brussels, and an exclusive interview


with the French finance minister who offers a little


Meanwhile, at Westminster, the Labour Party drama continues.


Might be in my party's interest for him to sit there. It is not in the


national interest. For heaven's sake, go. What about Europe? Where


were you when we needed you? We've been talking


to the grassroots. This is a coup, not only


long planned but a coup against the values that


Jeremy Corbyn has expressed so well It is a coup against the Labour


Party membership. And leave or remain -


what's Scotland thinking About the UK these days? I've


switched sides, and I have decided to vote Yes to independence from the


United Kingdom in another referendum. I know a lot of my


friends have also swapped sides. The referendum reaction phase


is over, the thinking phase is now underway as to what Brexit


is really going to mean. Thinking caps - and berets -


on. And the issue around


which all revolves is this - Can we get decent access


to the single market without also having to accept full freedom


of movement, which the voters It's the big issue in the EU


negotiation, and in the Tory Party We'll have more on the Tory


leadership shortly. The Europeans are pretty keen


to play hardball in defence of free movement, but is it credible


for them to resist British requests for a brake on migration,


when many of their own citizens Gabriel Gatehouse is in Paris today


for us, and he sat down for an exclusive interview


with the French Finance Minister, Michel Sapin, who gave a first chink


of a sign that there may Your President, Francois Hollande,


has said the United Kingdom should leave quickly. How quickly?


Would freedom of movement be a red line, non-negotiable? Some people


have suggested it would, for Britain's access to the single


market? If I understand you correctly,


premium of movement is negotiable? Everything is negotiable? --


freedom. Who should be in charge of the


negotiations on the European Union side? Is it the commission for the


European Council? I ask, because I imagine the


Council, representing as it does the member states, some of whom also


have their own issues with freedom of movement, might be more inclined


to give a bit on that in negotiations than the commission?


Many people are saying nothing will change for at least two years, until


the coupling is complete, if you like. But, in financial areas, do


you expect changes to begin earlier than that? Do you envisage some


French banks, perhaps, moving their operations out of London to Paris?


Are you surprised that the level of planning for this on the British


side, or lack thereof? And the leaders of the Leave camp


are likely to be the leaders of the country soon.


I want to ask you about the nuclear power plant at Hinkley Point. I know


there is a final decision expected in September. Does Brexiter change


your calculation is? Let me put the question this way, do


you think it is less likely now to be agreed?


In other words, it's too early to say? Yes. Minister, thank you very


much. It sounds as though Michel Sapin


is breaking with the European line by suggesting that freedom


of movement could be negotiable, although there are nuances


in all this that don't Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban


is in Brussels where the leaders of the 27 other EU members sat down


without David Cameron Mark, what did you make of that line


from the French finance minister, that everything is on the table?


Well, fascinating. The truth is that we have to confess this to the


viewer, we are in such an unprecedented situation that it is


quite hard to calibrate Smoggie statements and some of these


positions. If you take the harsh words from the 27 leaders here today


at face value, what Michel Sapin is saying is that we haven't received


the British ideas yet and, until we do, everything is on the table. You


could read it that way, nothing more than that. I think if you voted


Leave in the referendum, you could also take some comfort from the fact


that he was willing to go on to that area of freedom of movement and


there did seem to be something that he was willing to talk about in


broad terms, even if it is not part of the so-called Norwegian model or


a specific template. I think it is a fascinating thing that the EU has


used such harsh language today with Britain, really to try to get out


the meaning of what was said and the degree to which it was meant. I met


earlier with the Swedish Prime Minister, to ask him if there was an


element in this really trying to Britain.


I don't hear that kind of discussion, and I would


like to underline that Great Britain will stay a good partner, also,


And all the member states are expressing that we want a good


relationship with the United Kingdom.


Do you think it would be possible, though, for Britain to get a free


trade package, like Norway's, but makes amendments to that?


Or is it a take it or leave it offer from your point of view?


Depending on exactly what you mean, but yes, you have different options.


But there is no question that if you want to have the single


market, if you want access to the single market,


you need also to approve of the four freedoms.


Freedom of movement is clearly critical there.


Does that mean any deal in which the UK tried to amend


or soften that and retain access to the single market?


You might argue we are getting slightly mixed messages, but they


have only had a few days to get their ducks in a row. One thing they


are all saying is there is no negotiations until we invoke Article


50. How rigidly is that line being applied? Well, let's use a military


analogy, I sometimes like those. Clearly, close combat cannot begin


until a new British Government has chosen one of these options, is it


like Canada, Norway, something completely different? It can't start


until that point. On the other hand, despite the euro flannel we have


heard about there not being any negotiations before Article 50 is


invoked, we have heard opening salvos in the past two days. The


Prime Minister saying yesterday to the other leaders, you will have to


look at this issue of free movement. The leader saying back, don't expect


to two Leave cherry pick or get a Norway without free movement. Today,


the opening, defining positions are being laid out. In the coming


months, while Britain is choosing its new leader and the options are


being refined, there will be talks between the different key European


powers, the French, the Germans, the others like that, and they will come


together at around the time that Britain's new Prime Minister is


chosen, in Slovakia, to finesse and home down their position in


anticipation of what the new British Government will choose. At that


point, I think we should get much more clarity.


Getting our EU negotiating stance straight is entwined with a second


important decision - who will be the next Prime Minister?


In effect, the process of choosing both is down


to the Conservative Party, which is in full leadership election mode,


Nick Watt, our political editor, is with me


We have had some candidates declaring and also some hints of


some tensions, perhaps, between Boris Johnson and Michael Gove? Yes,


we have the fascinating leaking of an e-mail written by Michael Gove's


wife, a Daily Mail columnist, suggesting not is all sweetness and


light at the top of the Boris Johnson campaign. Michael Gove is


co-chair of the campaign and his wife says you have to demand


specific guarantees and assurances from Boris Johnson before you


support. Intriguingly, Sarah Vine also wrote that you come below that


husband, bring to the campaign the support and confidence of Rupert


Murdoch and Paul Dacre, the daily mail editor. This is what wrote.


Whoever said the era of press barons is over? This race is going to be


well and truly underway with the launch of the Boris Johnson and


Theresa May campaigns tomorrow, so we thought we would take a look at


how the contest is going and the way it is shaping the Brexiter


negotiations. Barely a week has passed


since David Cameron's resignation as Prime Minister,


but blink and you'll miss the start The favourite, Boris Johnson,


will declare this morning, The young outsider, Stephen Crabb,


well, he declared this morning. Having been brought up in a council


house by a single mother, Stephen Crabb's background could not


be more different to the Etonian Stephen Crabb, you are the underdog


and you come from a very different background to the average


Tory grandee. A bit like Margaret


Thatcher in 1975. Are there any lessons


for you from that campaign? I'm not afraid of being the underdog


but I actually think there is space in this leadership campaign,


this leadership debate, for not just a coronation,


not even for a two-horse race. I think we have to get past this


Boris-stop Boris dichotomy. Mindful of the fate


of the last blonde to stand for the Tory leadership -


Michael Heseltine - Boris Johnson kept something of


a low-profile at Westminster today. But he will be out of the traps


in the morning with a declaration that he offers a chance to believe


in ourselves and a hope that he will be able to unite


the Remainders and Leavers I am backing Boris Johnson


because the people have been very clear that they want to leave


the European Union. They were right to


make that decision. I think they expect that process


to be led by someone Boris has sent confusing signals


this week over his stance on the two core issues


at the heart of the referendum. Free movement of people and access


to the single market. If we have to except freedom


of movement, if freedom of movement was the single biggest objection


to leaving the EU in the first place, we are going to lose


the advantages of membership of the EU whilst not gaining


necessarily very much in return. Those who supported Brexit made


a number of assertions and promises which, in practice,


are going to be very difficult, One grandee who is supporting


Theresa May wonders whether Boris lacks that Prime


Ministerial gravitas. A point illustrated in the Commons


with a dig at "Borisconi". I can't imagine, it just slipped


out that way. And a lot of people think that


Boris Johnson has been fun but they are really,


really doubtful about whether he can be trusted to be serious,


to apply himself. Whereas Theresa May,


I think, most definitely can. And I think also, when she walks


into the room to try and undertake these negotiations, she will be


treated seriously but she will be Seven years as Home Secretary


and she wasn't leading Whereas, I think if Boris Johnson


were to go into such a room, he would get very,


very short shrift. This is the first time in British


history that the grassroots membership of a political party


will be deciding who our That is quite a responsibility,


given that this election will be shaping the negotiations


about Britain's place in Europe that will set the course of UK politics


for decades to come. So far, the contest


is following the usual path There is a clear frontrunner,


but that does not guarantee victory. The odds are against


the frontrunner but, frankly, I think we are now


into such open territory that very little about history is a guide


to what is going to happen. The wise candidate, who might very


well get elected at the end of the day by the 150,000


Conservative paid-up members, is one that is able not just


to unify the Conservative Party but is going to be able to reach


some form of consensus This evening, the Tories


were meant to put the troubles of the referendum behind them


at their annual summer party held But there are reports of trouble


over the seating plan worthy If Remainers and Leavers


are uncomfortable about sitting together, is there any hope


the new leader can heal Joining me now is Conservative MP


and Chair of the Foreign Affairs select committee Crispin Blunt -


he's backing Boris. You are explaining something, you


not about the negotiation because if it fails, there still in an OK


situation? The committee looked at this and this report in April and I


suggest people read that as it is highly likely or European partners


cannot agree a strategy between themselves, if there is a qualified


minority blocking any deal, those people who want to deal positively


with the UK or those who want to be seen to punish us. ... Then that


does not work and the European Parliament asked to approve this. If


all that fails, we have two cell into the single market on the most


favoured nation terms with talents of about 3%, 10% in some areas like


cars. And that is not the end of the world. It is better than that.


Because we then get control of immigration, we have control of free


movement, we don't have to pay billions into the EU budget, we can


decide where that gets spent. It gets better, we are regulating our


own market. I understand, you think the backstop is... Can I ask you,


what you understand why what Boris Johnson wrote in the Telegraph, this


line about British people being able to work, study, travel and buy homes


in the EU. What did he mean by that? I don't know. I don't know what


Boris Johnson meant that. Can you see any outcome when that happens?


We can restrict them... Can we live in the United States if we have the


means? I cannot go and live in the United States. You can get a green


card. You are supporting him, he has written this thing, which appears to


imply that we. Them coming here but we will have the right to go there.


He has just been in the middle of a campaign, he should know if that is


achievable. Do you think so? My view is that we will have to come to some


deal about how people can move between the UK and the rest of the


European Union. Can you see them allowing us freedom of movement but


us allowing them freedom of movement? Your candidate for Prime


Minister, who was meant to be an expert on this, has just written...


Failed quite certain that everybody is going to this in turn everything


that he says because it is a significant campaign. ... He was


paid several thousand pounds for this article and he wrote something


that was reassuring about what the position would be for the British


that appears to most commentators to be utterly wrong. Are you not


worried? There is uncertainty all over the place amongst the


candidates, certainly in the media. Let me finish this point. It is


important in the national interests that we get as much certainty as


possible about what the bottom line is for the UK. But if we take the


bottom line, can I live, travel, study and via home in France? On


your bottom line? No, if the negotiations... So how can Boris


Johnson give me that reassurance? That is what he is seeking to


achieve and it is obviously in the mutual interest of both the United


Kingdom and our European partners that that is the case. In the same


way... The same way as it is in our mutual interest at the tariff


fishing, particularly with European partners, if they sell twice as many


manufacturing goods to us as we sell to them, that they would want to see


those tariffs reduced. Quickfire round? There are some issues, do you


think immigration from non-EU countries, if your candidate wins,


will go up or not? Promises were made to Asian communities that it


would be easier to get relatives in. My view is that we should regulate


immigration from outside the United Kingdom consistently across the


piece. More or less from outside the EU? Irrigation to be the same. You


are not going to answer that. This is more serious than trying to


score... These are questions that have not been answered. And your


candidate is gone to stand for Prime Minister. But you know perfectly


well that the numbers of people coming into the United Kingdom are


not necessarily, depending on what system you set up, it is going to


depend on how many people come here. If you put a cap on the number of


visas you will allow, that is one way of controlling it, and are you


going to go by the number of... And finally, we're going to have control


over this. We're going to do the important business of trying to


protect British unskilled and semiskilled Labour and having to


compete with people who have professional qualifications coming


from central, eastern and southern Europe or anywhere else. That is why


they are not allowed in. That is a very long way of saying you don't


know if immigration will go up or not. We have to leave it there.


Thank you very much. Well, Labour have provided more


in the way of sparks this week, with a crisis that has given


new life to the words There was no challenge


to the Corbyn leadership today, Any news about Jeremy Corbyn? Chief


Whip went in to see him this evening and he is sleeping on their


conversation. This took place after the Deputy Leader said he should


think about going. I spoke to an ally the sickening and this person


told me that Jeremy Corbyn is in the very bad place. He said he is not a


broken man but he is a good-hearted man. He cannot believe that friends


have turned against him and he believes the decision by Ed Miliband


to speak out against his leadership was an act of betrayal. And this


person has broken to family members and the message coming from the


family is, what are you doing to Jeremy Corbyn? The message coming


from his allies in the Labour Party is, you have to protect the legacy.


That is code for, do not resign as leader egos if you do, the left will


lose control of the Labour Party. Because as soon as he goes, then


there can obviously be a leadership contest, but if he is there and


there is a challenge, he will be on the ballot paper. I was going to ask


if there would be any challenge tomorrow? I presume not but I think


we might have got one today, tomorrow? Angela Eagle is ready to


go. She has got 51 signatures ready for a challenge or 36 signatures if


it is not a challenge and a vacancy. As a understand it, there are people


in her circle saying, do not challenge. Hold back, if you


challenge, Jeremy Corbyn will be on the ballot paper and that will be an


invitation to the momentum grassroots campaign to get on the


streets and really make quite a protest for Jeremy Corbyn. Thank


you. The strife in Labour has really been


about who is in control of the party and, in particular,


should MPs defer to MPs usually find it easier


than party members to get slots on TV programmes like this,


but we thought it might be more useful at this point,


to hear from the grassroots, so Lewis Goodall has been sounding


them out. Just a warning his piece begins


with some flash photography. Last September, Jeremy Corbyn


was elected with the biggest mandate Only nine months later, he faces 172


of his MPs telling him to go. His opponents hope the shock Brexit


result would drain his support Newsnight has spoken to 50 chairs


and secretaries of local Labour Parties up and down


the country who supported Of these, 45 say they would support


and nominate Mr Corbyn again in the event of another


leadership contest. It's fair to say they


are not exactly happy Chris Williamson was an MP,


but is now a party chairman in Derby The attempted coup by certain


members of the Parliamentary Labour The fact is, Jeremy Corbyn


was elected with an overwhelming mandate, a mandate that is


unprecedented, the biggest mandate that any leader of any political


party has ever achieved in history. It's very regrettable, it is a civil


war that the membership Newsnight has learned that,


and down the country, over the next few days,


local Labour parties will be having special meetings to discuss the dire


situation facing the party, like Party members are, by nature,


pretty loyal to the party and I think that most of us feel


quite hurt with what's We are seeing an attempted coup


against Jeremy Corbyn. Furthermore, this is a coup not only


long planned, but a coup against the values that


Jeremy Corbyn has expressed so well I think he absolutely would win


another leadership election. In the last week, 18,000 people have


joined the Labour Party and 60% of them have written that the reason


they were joining is to support One group that is determined to hold


MPs' feet to the fire is Momentum. They are pressuring and agitating


at meetings like this one, going on behind me in Camden,


with Keir Starmer. They know that if they don't


support Jeremy Corbyn, Indeed, one London Labour


chairman told me that deselection isn't just possible


for them, it's certain. They won't stop, he said,


until they get the sort Tonight, Jeremy Corbyn


remains defiant. But whether he wins again or loses,


one thing from these The acrimony and mistrust


within the party is deep. Whoever is leader, the task


of rebuilding will be enormous. Lewis Goodall. More on Labour


tomorrow, I expect. Economic forecasts are not very


likely to be reliable, but I thought you might be


interested to hear how the city economists have changed their view


about economic growth over this The group Consensus Economics track


all the reputable forecasts, Since the Brexit vote,


the average forecast for this year's growth has been downgraded this year


by half a percentage point. Next year, the growth


downgraded by 1.7%. Believe the forecasts,


by the end of next year, the economy will be 2.2% smaller


than it would have been had And what is a loss of 2.2%


of national income? Well, you remember the famous


?350 million a week we were said 2.2% of national income


is ?350 million every We're all trying to get our heads


around the effects of Brexit. Our business editor


Helen Thomas is with me. Helen, any signs of gloom, doom or


buoyancy? First things first, it was a good day in the markets. The FTSE


100 is actually back up above what it was before the referendum result.


That is good news. The FTSE 250 and the pound also had a good day, but


they are still well down on where we were last week. The economic story


is still really uncertainty. In that environment, we are looking for any


early indicators we can offer what is going on out there. One area is


hiring and hiring intentions. We have the first look at some data


from Tam Dalyell, the professional body for human resources, they have


done a snap survey of their members. Here are some numbers. One thing to


emphasise a very early days. This is recruitment and tension over the


next five months. About 50% say it is too early to say, about 30% say


no particular change. But when you go on, you have 18% saying they are


less likely to hire, and then 14% talking about a recruitment freeze.


Getting down to the nitty-gritty, about 9% are saying they are more


likely to cut jobs. A side note on that data, it was a question where


you could take more than one box, so there is doubling up in brackets.


Another big picture takeaway is how unprepared businesses were for this


result. Do you have a post Brexit plan? 6% have won, 26% are working


on one currently, quite frantically, you might think! 54% still don't


have one in place. You can see why people might be. This is obviously


still before we have proper data, are there any other early signs? We


should stress we are really in reading economic tea leaves


territory. Nothing definitive. Springboard monitors footfall in


shopping centres, high streets and retail parks. Last week, they


thought it was down 5% on the year before. They say they saw a marked


deterioration in the second half of the week after the referendum


result, compared to the first half of the week. There are lots of


reasons we go shopping or not. Football! Yes, and a big one is the


weather. Springboard said they checked the weather and it is


broadly similar to last year. They do think there was a deterioration


after the result of the referendum. These are small, early signals,


nothing definitive. As you say, until we get any hard data, it is


what we got. A letter written to the Times in the wake of the referendum


result suggested the United Kingdom should be renamed Poundland, as the


currency is the only thing that we have in common.


It may be a slight exaggeration, but it is certainly the case


that there is great anxiety in Scotland about being dragged out


of the EU against the wishes of the majority of its voters,


and lots of talk about a second referendum on Scottish independence.


So will that really happen - and is there any way


Outside the Scottish Parliament, old friends gather.


Veterans of the 2014 campaign for Scottish independence meet


with renewed energy, the same purpose but wildly


A demand that Scotland stays in the European Union.


The political case for independence has never been as strong.


The argument we made that it doesn't really matter what way Scotland


votes in the UK, it can always be overruled,


We've seen it happen in a most dramatic fashion.


Many of the people I've been speaking to in this


crowd voted for Scottish independence in 2014.


So, in a sense, we could perhaps discount the views of this group


of people that are already on the side of an


The question is, how much has this trauma,


this Brexit referendum, had an impact on those


We need to keep pressure on people in that building behind us...


According to the polls, at least, there are plenty of people


who are now reassessing their opinion of independence.


I voted No in the previous Scottish independence referendum.


In this EU referendum, again, I voted to remain with the EU.


But now, based on this outcome, I have switched sides and decided


to vote to Yes to Scottish independence from the


United Kingdom, should we have another referendum.


And I know plenty of my friends have changed their minds as well.


But while the political case may have strengthened,


Since the 2014 referendum, the oil industry in Scotland has


Oil prices are roughly half what they were in the Scottish


The IFS puts Scotland's fiscal gap between overall spending and overall


revenues at around ?10 billion a year and widening.


Any future independence offer will have to be very different


from that presented to the Scottish people in 2014.


It will have to be ruthlessly honest and tell some hard truths.


Independence will be an expensive and difficult business,


but we will go into it with our eyes open, if you like.


That, at least, is the kind of offer that will have to be made.


That will be a very sobering experience.


It may be that this will be a difficult argument to win,


but it is probably the only Yes argument that could win.


On the table for David Cameron yesterday, nothing save


For Nicola Sturgeon today, a spread stacked with nibbles and,


After all, creative rule bending is an EU artform.


I think it would be very unlikely that Scotland would be recognised


as a member state without having achieved independence from the rest


of the United Kingdom at a domestic level.


But it is an interesting question, whether the EU can adapt


so as to give some sort of protection, autonomy


status to the regions of a former member state.


Because this isn't simply a matter of law, it's a matter


Always first a question of political will, with the law to be put


These are very early days, of course, but there is no sign yet


The EU President Donald Tusk and member states have


so far refused to meet with the Scottish First Minister


There is no shortage of bits of Europe that would like to be


treated as separate in EU negotiations, not least in Spain


who, we were told today in a press conference,


opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the Government


Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy argued emphatically if the United Kingdom


Nicola Sturgeon, then, didn't leave with anything concrete.


I've received a lot of sympathy and a lot of good wishes today.


That, of course, doesn't translate into an automatic


easy path for Scotland, but it does mean I leave Brussels


tonight to travel back to Edinburgh in good heart and optimistic.


There are, though, some who think we could get through this


constitutional crisis, if that is what it is,


by MPs getting together and agreeing to ignore the people,


ignore the outcome of the referendum.


I'm on my way now to meet someone who is famous for framing


Former Labour MP Tam Dalyell came up with the famous West


As passionate today as ever about the sovereignty


MPs should have the balls to use their best judgment,


If their best judgment, as I understand it is the best


judgment of 450 more, is that Britain should remain


within the European Community, they should have the balls to say


This is a matter of cowardice if they don't.


The big change for Scotland from 2014 is it is a case


that the country can't now be in both unions,


It could simplify the politics, but end up making


We've had hopes and fears in the programme today,


Scotland, economics, the negotiation.


Let's finish with some reflections on all that.


I'm joined by the columnists Melanie Phillips, from the Times,


and Jonathan Freedland from the Guardian.


Melanie, you were pretty keen on Brexit, does it worry you that


you're seeing potential disintegration of the UK? I would be


extremely concerned about the potential disintegration of the


United Kingdom. I think it is distinctly premature to worry all


over again about Scotland. I think Nicola Sturgeon has been extremely


wise to be cautious in her phrasing. A second referendum for independence


is on the table, fine, let's have it on the table. There is no problem in


that. But she is wise to be cautious for a number of reasons. First, as


we can see, the EU itself is not necessarily keen to have Scotland as


a member because this will open Pandora's Box again to other


secessionist movements in Europe and they don't want that. Secondly, from


the Scottish people's perspective themselves, nobody knows what this


thing is going to look like to which they all want to continue to sign


up. They don't know what Europe or the EU will look like, they don't


know, we don't know what deal the EU will finally do with the United


Kingdom. Can I ask, let's fly ahead ten years, if it was the case that


Scotland didn't leave the UK, and everybody could see the date at


which that destiny was set was devoted to Brexit, would you regret


Brexit in that situation? No, I would regret very much of Scotland


left the United Kingdom, they are an integral part of the United Kingdom.


However, for me, national self-governance is overall. I know


that you are a Remainer, Jonathan, where should the country draw the


line on the balance between free movement, restricting that, and


getting access to the single market? It seems to be the fundamental


question we are facing. Just on the Scotland thing, if you or a patriot


and are doing it for the country, a price worth paying is to break up


the country seems like an odd thing to say. The balance of free


movement, access to the single market seems crucial for the


economy. Everybody says so. Even people on the Leave side said that.


Boris Johnson's very unique brand of magical thinking, in which he


famously said he is pro-cake and pro-eating it, even he was


constantly saying through the campaign, of course we will be in


the single market, plenty of other Leavers were as well. It is vital. I


think we will be sending the economy to pen Yury if we break out of it.


It's quite clear that the electorate have a problem with the free


movement. Before the result, I was writing that Labour needed to change


the message and say that it is something we need to look at. I


think the European powers themselves, France and Germany, are


also going to look at it. That might be where the action could be,


actually. You would, presumably, Melanie, say that free movement is


the red line and get whatever we can on single market access after that?


For me, the red line is British national self-government. For that,


we need to be able to determine our own immigration policy, for that we


need not to have the free movement rules. That is how it works for me.


I understand, obviously, there is a big problem here in respect of free


movement of the one hand, against sovereignty on the other,


potentially. We have already seen there is a slight frisson of a hint


from the French that possibly, just possibly, it might be discussed.


This is our story, and it is leading in the Daily Mail, Europe starts to


crack on migrants? Yes, also, I'm not an economist, I yield to others


that no much more about this than I do, but I'm listening to people that


do know about the way economists worked who are saying that, you


know, the free market is not the be all and end all. Sorry, the single


market. You talk about, quite rightly, Boris Havering, but Michael


Gove was very clear during the campaign, we come out of the EU, we


come out of the single market. His view is that we can negotiate with


the countries of the EU independently. Outside the single


market? We heard Crispin Blunt saying... Our economy is so bound up


with them, so intertwined. Our economy is unique. Nobody, but


nobody knows how it will be for us because we have never been in this


situation before. We are not Norway, we are not Switzerland. I want to


keep moving this along. How, Jonathan, does the interaction of


this with the Tory leadership contest work? We might think the


leadership election is not the best way to frame a national decision


about policy? It means somebody like Boris Johnson, who I think would be


someone who wants to be flexible on this and negotiate something that


would look a lot like Remain is having to go further and adopt a


harder Leave position. Somebody like Theresa May, you would think she


would be the more pragmatic, responsible figure. Partly, polling


suggesting she is polling the Leave pulling ahead because she looks like


a responsible adult, rather than ad-libbing it like Boris Johnson.


Yet, if you want somebody who negotiates on something like LIBOR,


it would be helpful to have somebody like Boris Johnson, who has been to


China. It is the dilemma, we have had conversations about it. The


Times, they say that in a poll, Tory activists say that Theresa May is at


55%, Boris Johnson at 38%. There is a very clear mandate from


the people. She could be Prime Minister and say, Boris, negotiate


with the European Union? She could but you cannot have a Prime Minister


who is a Remainer. This was about taking back control and the Prime


Minister will be chosen by 150,000 people.


A couple of big Tory beasts will declare themselves candidates


for the leadership tomorrow, and maybe one in the Labour Party.


Nick Watt will be live on Facebook live from the Boris launch,


Wednesday's wet and windy weather leaving so was nice to


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines, with Evan Davis.

It is Brexit plus six. Jeremy Corbyn is feeling the heat. Members are angry. Tories are eyeing Number 10. The French are talking free movement. The Scots want to stay.

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