07/07/2016 Newsnight


James O'Brien with the latest on the Conservative leadership election. Plus Robert Harris on Tony Blair and Chilcot on the UK's Basra record.

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A second female Prime Minister for Britain.


Andrea Leadsom, 84 votes, Theresa May, 199 votes.


Therefore Michael Gove, having the lowest number of


votes, has been eliminated from the ballot.


The Tories already have a female leader of course - in Scotland.


I really don't have any message for that monster.


He basically took away a person who was peaceful, who


wanted unity in the world, who wanted the communities to unite.


And: we've seen the headlines, but what lies buried


deep within the pages of the Chilcot Report?


I will be delving into this, extracting the tale of one


particularly murky episode. And novelist Robert Harris explores


the many lives of his former He often wore make-up, even when he


was not in a television studio. I don't know why, maybe it's just


appealed to him, that sense of always being a performer.


Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom will duke it out to lead


the Conservative Party and, of course, the nation


after the final round of voting by MPs saw Justice


Secretary Michael Gove limp home in third place.


I would have described it as a massive shock once but,


given the unprecedented political upheaval of the last


fortnight, Mrs Leadsom's presence on the ballot -


not to mention the absence of a Johnson or an Osborne -


It all means not only that the next Prime Minister will be a woman


but also that we won't have a firm hand on the country's tiller


Newsnight's political editor Nick Watt is with me.


Nick. As you were saying, an emphatic win for Theresa May, almost


200 votes and 60% of Tory MPs think she should be Prime Minister. She


will face in the final round Andrea Leadsom. She is also vote share


increase to 25% of the total, 84 votes. Michael Gove in third place,


humiliating result for him because his vote share went down and he is


therefore disqualified from the contest. Theresa May's team, are


they as confident as the numbers suggest? On paper she should walk it


but her team are nervous, they think that Andrea Leadsom, as the Brexit


campaign could run an insurgency campaign, some ministers say she is


connecting in their constituencies. One Cabinet minister I spoke to said


that if she becomes Prime Minister with only 25% of Tory MPs supporting


hurt the Tories could have and Jeremy Corbyn situation. You called


and humiliation for Michael Gove, any word on how he's taking it?


Licking his wounds and the word from this camp is that he's really hurt


at the end of this week from which she cannot escape from the image of


being the double assassin. They say he won't be cutting any deals. He


will accept a Cabinet post if he is offered one, if he is not offered


one he will not brood and think when he can return. The dilemma for him


is who dizzy endorse? He says it must be a Brexiteer as the next


Prime Minister that Andrea Letson does not share his worldview. We


thought we would take a look at her although I should warn that this


report contains some flash photography.


I can announce the result of the election for the leadership of the


Conservative Party. Will it be third time lucky for the plucky outsider


in the Conservative leadership contest? Andrea Leadsom has not even


made it to the Cabinet yet she is now within reach of the premiership


after making it the final stage of the battle choose David Cameron's


succession. What do we want? She has a Eurosceptic fan base on the right


of the party after playing a leading role on the Brexit side of the


referendum campaign and debate Mrs Leadsom showed she will run an


insurgency campaign by instructing the supporters to march on Whitehall


other she did not trouble it with her presence. Concerns are raised


about her lack of Cabinet experience could make a something of a novice


as Prime Minister. Opponents also point to the socially conservative


views which prompted her today to highlight her unease about same-sex


marriage. Because she decided to abstain on the subject of same-sex


marriage, this does not in any way make her less respectful of loving


couples who just happened to be in a same-sex relationship. We have moved


on. Get over it! Mrs Leadsom, who has so far escaped scrutiny as a


relatively junior minister now finds her CV under the spotlight. Shortly


after her election to Parliament in 2010 she finished her record in the


City to MPs. I should declare that I have been in banking even longer


than my honourable friend having been 23 years in investment banking


and funds management. Now it seems that giving a ten year stint, she


only had official approval to deal with funds for three months.


Supporters of Theresa May say that she is a safer pair of hands. I


think what people want is someone who can not only bring the party


together but the country together. I think the results today has


demonstrated that Theresa has that ability. It is no time for a risk.


Friends of Andrea Leadsom are hurt by a tax on her record and what


regard as a sneering attitude to the membership of the parliament Bible


study group. They say that Christianity lies at the root of the


plain speaking approach to politics and explains why she takes pride in


delivering on her promises. With this background, the team have high


hopes that Leadsom will go down as a major figure in British political


history. This candidate can outstrip Margaret Thatcher. She is the real


deal. She is absolutely fantastic. You ain't seen nothing yet. Would


Theresa May outstrip Lady Thatcher? I don't think any of us would want


to make that comparison. Theresa May's camp are nervously watching


the newcomer, they hope the Home Secretary's overwhelming support


among MPs will said the grass roots message to Tories determined to vote


with their hearts we Brexit campaigner. Last time it was very


close, this time it's two and a half times as many votes for Theresa May


as for her nearest rival. So my message to the membership is, please


think long and hard about your decision. British politics has


undergone a roller-coaster ride in recent months. It is now over to


Tory members to decide whether something of the old order is


re-established. I'm hopeful, optimistic. Or if Britain will


venture out of Europe with a true, though untested believer.


We're joined now from our Edinburgh studio by Ruth Davidson, leader


of the Scottish Conservatives, who earlier today announced


she was backing Theresa May for Prime Minister.


Michael Gove, Ruth, I know that he is not the force that he was a


fortnight ago but he said the successful candidate must be on the


winning side of the argument. Theresa May was not. Does Michael


Gove have a point? Well I think it must be someone who can unite both


the country and the party and I think Theresa May is the only one


that can do that. She's already got the vast majority of the


parliamentary party behind her and has huge support in all parts of the


country and my colleagues in Scotland, both


in the Commons and the house of Lords, the MEPs, myself in Holyrood,


all four of us in this position is back and we also have to talk about


some of the divides in this country, including the privileged few and


those like me who went to the local comprehensive, someone who can speak


to that and make sure government is for everyone in this country and not


for those people who feel far removed from the corridors of power.


Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom both went to grammar school, why can't


Andrea Leadsom unite the party. There will be a lot of challenges


for whoever comes up. This won't be easy years. We don't have much time,


why can't Andrea Leadsom unite the party and the country? She hasn't


got the plurality of the party behind her, she did not get support


of the party in Scotland and in other parts of the country but I'm


not here to criticise Conservative colleagues. It takes a lot of guts


to put your name on a ballot paper, it takes guts to say you want to


lead and I want to see a big broad debate across the UK and all the


hustings planned for the candidates, it is right that the membership get


there and say but I think it's right that in terms of the person who's


got a steal for the job, who can go eyeball to eyeball with Angela


Merkel and Nicholas Turgeon, it can only be Theresa May. When David


Cameron re-signed two digit think would be the next prime Minster?


Theresa May. What did she mean when she described the nasty party? About


the few people used to have of us. She talked about that when she was


chairman of the party. She has held big roles in the party and done a


lot of work in the country, I know that every time I called her during


the referendum, to make speeches all to come to drop to Scotland's


business women, she was there and heartbeat. Anything she needed to


do. She's got a huge capacity for work, all the leadership skills, she


can see the way others work, the way people look at the party and don't


like what they see and she knows the way she wants to change the party so


it is for everyone and not just for one section of the society. Can you


put flesh on those bums and tell me some of the ideologies you would


have filed under nasty? I think the way that we spoke in the past, I was


not a member of the party back in the days that you are talking about,


I was still a BBC journalist being neutral like you are now. She was


talking about the way in which often our opponents have thought we only


spoke to one section when actually we are a broad church. I know in my


first selection when I stood as a candidate, Michael Martin, the


disgraced former Speaker of the House of Commons, I was being told


that Margaret Thatcher shot the railroads when actually they were


shot long before her, not because of industrial policy but they made


steam locomotives when the world had moved on to diesels are many myths


have been perpetrated about our party by its opponents and it's time


to break them down. And by having to state educated women by merit, I


think it will help address some of that. -- two state educated women.


This is not a myth, Theresa May says she can't guarantee the lives of the


immigrants who are here. She says she wants to guarantee them. I


publicly said that I think she should give that guarantee. Why


hasn't she? She knows if she takes on this role she's got work to do in


making sure that the British abroad are allowed to stay, and looked


after. I think the person in that role should be able to say,


irrespective of that, that they should stay. The one thing David


Cameron will tell you over the last five years is, while I am a


supporter of colleague, when I disagree I will say and they will


know about it. Do you know what her vision for Brexit is? Does it


involve the single market? Have you had a conversation with her? I have


and I've said that I want Scotland to have access to that single


market. I think it is important for Scottish business, for a lot of


sectors, passports for financial services and the best deal for


Scotland's fishermen. A lot of sectors have specific interests and


we need a hard negotiator who is tough and steely and can go toe to


toe with the big players in Europe and who already has contacts with


all the interior ministers like Theresa May does. While I think that


Andrea Leadsom has a huge, Bright future in the party and has done


incredibly well, I have been up against debates and she is talented


but I think we need someone who can hit the ground running on day one


and that is Theresa May. Hit the ground running yet not offer any


decrease in immigration? There has been a lot of discussion. Actual


policy? I think there will have to be a lot of work done, not just on


the framework... What will that policy look like? On what is on the


table form the other 27 nations. I don't think you can criticise anyone


who wants the top job for wanting to keep their cards close to their


chest before they go to Europe to negotiate. Forgive me for not having


congratulated you sooner, Ruth, you got engaged on 23rd May. Andrea


Leadsom described as of today as not happy with the legislation that


would let you marry your girlfriend. I was a huge proponent of same-sex


marriage and that still parts of the UK where that is not permitted, I've


been invited by Amnesty to give the animal Pride march in Belfast...


Would you want to be in a party led by a woman not happy with the fact


that you could marry your fiance in a church? This is my party. She has


such is not a huge supporter of it, how do you feel, is it a crisis of


conscience, or water off a ducks back? I don't know Andrea Leadsom


well, she said it was something to do with her faith, as a woman of


faith myself. About my Christianity and some of the difficulties after


reconciling my faith and my sexuality I know it can take time


for people to do that. I'm very pleased that Theresa May was


instrument or in bringing forward same-sex marriage, something I have


supported going forward, and whoever becomes Prime Minister will get an


invitation to my wedding when it happens! With Davis, thank you, and


when that happy day dawns, I hope it is wonderful that you -- Ruth


Davidson. The murder of Glasgow shopkeeper


Asad Shah on 24th March this year sent shockwaves


through the Shawlands area of the city and saw hundreds take


to the streets for a vigil Today his killer pled guilty to the


murder at Glasgow High Court. A well loved petition Pakistani


shopkeeper, Asad Shah, is brutally murdered by another Muslim. A


community, a family, are left asking why. Initially, tabloids linked the


murder to a Facebook post hours before his death, where Asad Shah


wished everybody a happy Easter. Others said he belonged to the


persecuted Ackerman Ahmadiyya sect of Islam. This is the story of a


murder planned in Bradford, carried out in Glasgow and inspired by


events in Pakistan. It ties together the killing of a Scottish shopkeeper


with the killing of the Pakistani politician five years ago. Both


victims are accused by some Muslims as having committed Basa me. Today


the killer of Asad Shah pleaded guilty to the murder. I haven't


called him a man. I don't have any message for that monster. He


basically took away a person who was peaceful, who wanted unity in the


world, who wanted the community is to unite, who wanted to help the


community and him harming somewhat someone of peace, literally, he is


the enemy of humanity. On the 24th of March, Asad Shah had been working


in his family's shop when he was brutally attacked. After stabbing


him to death, his killer, who had travelled 200 miles from Bradford,


calmly waited at a bus stop opposite for the police. Asad Shah's brother


witnessed the attack but still finds it ethical to talk about. He said


his father had brought the family to Scotland in the 1990s from Pakistan


to escape religious intolerance. His pharmacy was set on fire by


extremist there and a hospital was burnt down. We had an apartment


above the pharmacy where my parents were with the kids. It was set on


fire. My dad thought about our future and thought we would be safer


in Britain. It's unimaginable, that's what's happened to my


brother. And it was all my dad trying to protect the kids, thinking


something like this would happen in Pakistan, and it has happened here.


But it seems Asad Shah wasn't targeted for his faith, but for


videos posted online. Recorded in his shop but discussing his


spiritual beliefs. In some he claims to be a prophet himself. One of


those who watched the videos and was incensed by them was 32-year-old


Tanveer Ahmed, a minicab driver from Bradford, who would go on to murder


Asad Shah. Tanveer Ahmed was a fervent admirer of another killer


who had murdered a prominent Pakistani politician who had


proposed to reform Pakistan's controversial blasphemy laws. He was


held up as a hero, despite being executed earlier this year. His


brother says Tanveer Ahmed had talked to him about the Glasgow


shopkeeper Asad Shah. Photo tributes online portrayed the


two killers together. Qadri's brother says Tanveer Ahmed was


inspired by his example. Tanveer Ahmed wasn't the only person


in Britain to admire Qadri. A number of mosques, including some in


Glasgow and Bradford expressed support for him, even if they


haven't for Tanveer Ahmed. Both Tanveer Ahmed and Qadri came from a


strand of Islam normally associated with a spiritual, liberal


interpretation of religion, one that completely opposes Al-Qaeda and


Isis, but the murders they committed upsets the narrative. Extremism it


seems is much more contradicted. Tonight, Tanveer Ahmed faces a


lengthy jail sentence. But even from behind bars he seems able to spread


his messages. This post on Facebook appears to be him sending his


supporters Eid greetings earlier this week but we haven't been able


to confirm it. It ends with a chilling warning, cut the heads from


the bodies. The man who murdered your brother, he said he did so


because he was defending the honour of the Prophet Muhammad because your


brother was claiming to be a prophet. I think it's very clear,


when you look at the history, the Prophet Muhammad did not result to


violence and things like this. Asad Shah's family have been torn apart


by the murder. They want to preserve his memory but are in fear of their


lives. It's been very difficult for the family. The family don't feel


safe any more. Living here in Scotland. And it has split the


family apart, since the incident. And some members of the family have


left Scotland, or are in the process of leaving and it really shouldn't


have come to this. In the last few years,


the word "whatever" and its youthful abbreviation "whatevs" have become


bywords for banality, the stock response of


the uninterested to tidings about which they


could not care less. Strange, then, that Tony Blair's


employment of it in a 2002 missive to George W Bush -


"I will be with you, whatever" - has proved


to be the most important of all 2.6 million words


in the Chilcot Report. But we can't be sure of that


quite yet because we That plum job's fallen


to Newsnight's Diplomatic Editor, Mark Urban, who's now had 36 hours


with a tome three times I have done a deep dive into volume


eight here, there all manner of different stories and aspects of


this. You can take your pick, really. The reason I have chosen to


tell this story tonight is because it's a pretty extraordinary tale.


Like many of other things, aspects of this were already in the public


domain. The idea that Britain's exit from Iraq and Basra was subject to


some sort of deal, and here it is in all its sordid detail, after years


of trying to bring peace to the streets of Basra and failing, the


British Army and MI6 ended up talking to a jailed militia


commander in a cell on the outskirts of Basra.


In mid-2007 after operations to hit the Shia militia and is, the dish


military tried a new tack, opening up discussions with a senior


commander they had arrested two years before. In the Chilcot Report


the prisoner is called Jam1. They came up with a trial deal.


British arrest operations would stop, it couple of British military


prisoners would be released and JAM1 would demonstrate his ability to


deliver a reduction in violence. The secretive talks came at an Aqua


time, just as the British military wanted to hand Basra over to Iraqi


forces and pull back to outside the city. -- awkward time. The Americans


had spent the summer doing the opposite, surging forces and


re-entering many areas. But the British wanted out. The security


situation was difficult for us. Every move outside our bases


required detailed planning and was high risk. I thought we were having


limited effect on improving the security situation in Basra. 90% of


the violence was directed against us. Politically there was no contact


between us and the local provincial government. Coalition sponsored


reconstruction had almost ceased. An MOD civil servant wrote that pulling


out of Basra city created... The British toe had started to roll


over the deals with debt captive, JAM1, from one month to the next.


Each time releasing more Iraqi military prisoners. One MoD civil


servant told the Defence Secretary...


Covered by their deal, the British pulled out of their main downtown


Basra base early in September. The Americans were seething and accused


the British of leaving Iraqis to the mercy of the militias, a charge one


Chilcot witness rejected. Yes, I think it is unfair. As we heard from


the general, we consolidated at the airport as part of a planned and


coherent transition from coalition lead to Iraqi lead for


responsibility for security. All agreed with the approach and the


timings. I think it is unfair. A joint intelligence committee report


showed a steep fall in attacks on British forces as a result of the


deal and speculated about a broader deal with the militias. Their


prisoner, JAM1, asked to be on the next wave of prisoner releases. Time


was running out. By the end of 2007, JAM1, who the Chilcot Report doesn't


name, but we know to have been... Was released. In the last months


violence picked up again. It reached a peak in March 2008 when Iraqi


forces engaged in a full-scale battle. For some days the British


hung back at the airport and American advisers went into Basra to


help restore the situation. It all added to the sense of an ignominious


end to the mission. It will take years for the full


impact of the Chilcot Report into the Iraq war to be


properly measured. Yesterday, as the man at its heart


responded to its publication, it took mere moments for talk


to turn to the demeanour and even They are, though, subjects


which have long exercised Once a close friend of the former


Prime Minister, it's fair to say they'd fallen out by the time Harris


published his 2010 novel, The Ghost, featuring


a thinly-disguised Blair facing In this film, Robert Harris


considers his former I first met Tony Blair in 1992, just


before John Major beat Neil Kinnock in that general election. My


overwhelming impression, I had never met him before, he was then the


Labour employment spokesman and I was a columnist on the Sunday Times.


He was above all refreshingly normal and he always talked as if he was


separate from politics in a funny way. He empathised with somebody


outside politics and he would say, I don't know why I'm doing this. We


don't seem to be going anywhere. I don't know why just don't give it


all up and go back to being a barrister and spend more time with


my wife and kids. One can't underestimate the importance of that


quality in Tony Blair, and what made in 1997 election possible. I was


with him in his constituency home in his sitting room, standing with him


at 10pm on election night when the election poll was first revealed and


David Dimbleby said we predict it will be the Labour Party with a


majority of 146. Extraordinary, nobody had forecast that. I remember


saying to him, how do you feel, because I had to write it up. He


said, I feel nothing, really. I'm just ready to get onto the next


thing. When I first arrived at his home in Sedgefield it was the


ordinary policemen on the door, but when I left, and it was clear he


would be Prime Minister, there were five or six men with machine guns


patrolling the gardens. From that time onwards I guess he never lived


a normal life again. I remember going to dinner at Chequers in the


summer after he was elected Prime Minister. Really almost the first


warning sign I got was that they were discussing a cabinet meeting,


and Roy Jenkins was there. In the 70s or 60s when he was a cabinet


minister, they had two hours on a Tuesday and two hours on Thursday.


Tony Blair said they wouldn't do that, just 45 minutes once per week.


Ireland but Jenkins looking at him, and I looked at Roy, and it was the


first moment where we thought, it will be a very personal, one-man


government. -- I remember. He often wore make-up, even when not in a


television studio. I don't know why, maybe it appealed to him, that sense


of always being gay performer. You don't pray together for example? No,


we don't pray together, Jeremy. Religious faith is very important


for him. He developed a very, good and evil point of view of the world.


When I saw he had written to George Bush, I am with you whatever, it has


the biblical connotation, I will be with you even to the end. And so, I


think you can see their this sort of very personalised, for want of a


better word, MSI and it kind of view of politics. -- Messianic view of


politics. As things went wrong, he developed a kind of masochism


strategy that reached its full flowering yesterday with the


publication of the Chilcot Report. That was almost like Christ nailed


to the cross. With Tony Blair you can never be quite sure where the


performance ends and the private man begins. I felt there there was


perhaps a mixture of the two and he was playing Christ on the cross, but


also in a way, he is in anguish, and he has morphed into this strange


figure that is not any longer quite of this world. It's said that all


prime ministers go mad after a time. And certainly Margaret Thatcher


began to behave erratically. But I don't think any has gone quite as


strange, I'm afraid, as Tony Blair, simply because he started out so


ordinary to begin with. David Cameron - remember him?


- didn't make much of it, and Alistair Campbell famously


forbade Tony Blair to speak of his own faith in public, boldly


stating, "We don't do God." But the next Prime Minister


definitely does. Both contenders are


practising Christians. Theresa May is a vicar's daughter


and Andrea Leadsom today declined to deny that she believed


the Almighty had ever On the other side of the Atlantic,


Christianity and right-wing politics often seem to combine to create


homophobic rhetoric and ugly scenes So, could we see more of that


over here, or perhaps, instead, a kinder, more


morally upright frame for politics, influenced


by the Christian religion? David Grossman has been


considering the leadership One of 5.4 FM in London and across


the UK and Digital radio. David Cameron once famously described his


own Christian faith as rather like the reception of the London radio


station Magic FM in the Chiltern Hills, it fades in and out, he said.


But for a large number of the current crop of Conservative MPs


their faith is constant and informs their politics. It is central to


their political lives. What's more large number of those who contested


the conservatively to ship this time say they are active Christians. The


question is, is this just a coincidence or has something


happened to the Conservative Party and its relationship with God and


church? There was, and I was part of it, an influential organisation


still active in the party today called the conservative Christian


Fellowship. Over a long period it recruited churchgoers, went to


churches and said get involved with politics. There may be an element of


that work coming to fruition but that work was certainly done before


people like Theresa May applied to be party members. Front runner


Theresa May is a vicar's daughter and says her faith is active and


deep. I think the point is that it is part of me. Part of who I am and


how I approach things. I think it's right that we don't flaunt these


things in British politics. But it is a part of me, it is there and it


obviously helps to frame my thinking and my approach. The other


contenders still in the race, Andrea Leadsom, has come to faith more


recently and seems more enthusiastic about discussing it. Ace I always


tried to ensure that I am doing what I think God would want me to do. I


don't mean that in the sense that I am not responsible for what I am


doing but try to keep in mind that God is there and guiding my hands,


and helping me. Andrea Leadsom is part of the all-party Christians in


Parliament group who meet to pray and study the Bible together. The


chairman of the group says Christian conservatives in particular have had


an image problem. Frankly over the last couple of decades Christians on


the right, we have not helped ourselves by pinpointing a couple of


issues and sometimes using the language. I think we are learning a


lot but that is not the way forward. It doesn't express the love of the


God we seek to follow. We've got to get over that. I don't blame people


for thinking we are hung up on one or two issues. It was the case a few


years ago. I hope increasingly it is not the case. Yet those issues,


abortion and particularly gay marriage are important to many party


activists who will be picking the next Prime Minister. David Cameron


drew criticism from his grasp modes legislating for gay marriage about


it being in the party manifesto. Today Andrea Leadsom said she would


have preferred the law not to be changed. I would have preferred


civil partnerships to be available to heterosexual and to gay couples


and four marriage to have remained as a Christian service that was her


men and women who wanted to commit in the eyes of God. But crucially


Andrea Leadsom isn't proposing to change the law back. It seems we are


a long way from the kind of religious rights are active in


American politics. Well, to discuss this and the wider


leadership race I'm joined by Conservative peer and commentator


Danny Finkelstein, Guardian columnist Zoe Williams


and Tim Montgomerie of the Times. And also the star of the film that


we just saw! Is religion having a resurgence in the Conservative


Party? I don't know but I welcome its overall influence. If you look


at Theresa May and some of the flagship reforms she has pioneered


against human trafficking, changing the stop and search laws that


discriminated and targeted minority communities particularly in London,


I think that sort of moral purpose... The Conservatives used to


talk about economic issues and it was more up like a party of


accountancy focus. I think what some of the Christians in the


party have brought in is not an American right style of politics but


it is a concern for bigger moral issues and I think it is overall


very good. Andrea Leadsom and are interested in tackling the problems


of young children, she wants much more spending on early intervention.


They could not hold these views unless they went to church? No axed


amuck sometimes I think there is coverage of the party claiming that


they are only interested in gay rights or abortion, whereas if you


go to a sermon in a church it is more likely to be on social justice


and concern for the poor and we are seeing those Christians coming to


the front of the party when they go week in, week out to cure about


those issues in churches. Zoe, are you joining your hands in prayer? I


am an atheist, all religions are equally ridiculous to me and I think


the place of religion in politics is to create an authoritarian frame


where one person establishes that authority over another, whether


because they are heterosexual or think of themselves as more moral,


that's equally problematic. And the weird thing is that Christians and


politics are obsessed with sets. It's all about, sexuality and


abortion. If they were more into equality, Jesus's big thing, we


could talk. I don't keep abreast of major religions and maybe honesty is


not a big thing any more yet I don't take either of these women seriously


as people of faith when they are not honest. Leadsom all day long has


been embellishing her CV and her achievements and her role in the


financial sector. She insists she has done nothing of the sort. She


called herself an investment manager when she was an age are at the time.


She is not an honest person, I think. Bat she was in human


resources at the time. So to take her as an honest voice in Christian


politics is strange. Is it not the problem that if a politician can


say, God told me to do it, then all bets are off? It is a bizarre


metropolitan... To which by the way, I belong, idea that people who are


Christian and outlandish. I am Jewish and I have never experienced


Christianity in the Conservative Party as an oppressive force. I


think Tim is correct. What has happened which is increased


Christian activism in the party in the last 15 years has gone alongside


increased social liberalism. Those two things have coexisted. I think


we should not try to look into people's souls and tell them...


Let's look entirely at the surface. Because on the surface it is the


gender of the two leading candidates that the editors find most


interesting. Zoe, do you dream of a day where we would not even notice


that both candidates are women? That they will be a long time coming.


It's extraordinary that the Conservatives should deliver an


all-female short list, having ridiculed... There was an


interesting tweet which I disagreed with which was the reason that


conservatives are so good at women is that they don't obsess about


identity politics like the left too. I don't agree. This has occurred


acres of a bloodbath, a public school stitch up and then they all


turned on each other, like Lord Of The Flies. And so happened that the


only two people left all women. It's a triumph of deregulated free-market


politics that yields the result is that the left-wingers would love to


see. This is not proof of anything. No. The reason that the Labour


Party, the left, boastful and saw women is because they thought women


would vote Conservative. And for a long period of history the


Conservative Party has done women are better than men. But it has


stopped doing that and what many modernisers have wanted to achieved


is that it should do that again. Two things, this is an encouraging


development, secondly, only a small one. It comes despite the fact that


we are still a long way from equality. Because these women did


not come through all women short lists, they had to fight for seats.


They became much better politicians because they had to overcome


obstacles, sometimes more so, than the men face. Whereas the women who


have come through the Labour Party haven't had that same element of


political gorilla warfare that businesses are read to win these


seats. For example? The Labour have all women short lists. Give an


example of a rubbish Labour woman who would not have won a Tory seat.


You haven't had a woman he'd still whereas the Tory party has a stream


of women coming through. You don't seriously think these two women are


the best politicians in the Conservative Party? I think Theresa


May is incredibly impressive as a politician. You were backing Michael


Gove at the weekend. I backed Boris Johnson committee would have been my


choice. Go for the hat-trick, who will you back next? And that we will


have a two-month contest because I have no idea what Theresa May thinks


about, for example, Seve Javid and his idea of borrowing... Were not


some of the Labour women suggesting that at the last general election?


They was adjusting borrowing on every front! -- Sajid Javid. It's


exactly the same, it just came from a Tory. I think the Conservative


Party has a number of very good women and it is very good that we


have to women in but that should not disguise the fact that the party and


British politics is a long way from achieving equality in politics for


women. The point is that not all women are feminists. Neither of


these two will improve the lot of women. Thank you all very much. That


is all that we have time for. Good night.


Hello, not much changing over the next few days, more rain and some


sunshine. Heavy rain overnight will clear from


James O'Brien with the latest on the Conservative leadership election, with comment from Ruth Davidson. Plus Asad Shah's killer's extremist links exposed, Robert Harris on Tony Blair and Chilcot on the UK's Basra record.

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