Kirsty Wark looks at the Dallas police shootings, the Tata deal and Labour's Trident review. Plus Lord Tebbit on comparisons between Thatcher, May and Leadsom.
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Are the Dallas police killings the latest manifestation
of a racial divide in America, which is getting worse, not better?
As unease grows across America, the city's police have started
The suspect said he was upset at white people.
The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people,
Tonight, live from Dallas, the mother of an unarmed young man
shot by Dallas police in 2013, and a minister who spoke
at the protest before last night's shootings and the Chair
of the National Black Police Association.
ANNOUNCER: Big welcome for Jeremy Corbyn.
Also tonight, will the Labour leader be happy with the results
Jeremy Corbyn has campaigned all his adult life for unilateral
nuclear disarmament, but Newsnight has learned that
a Labour defence review leaves the door open for the possible
retention of nuclear weapons by a future Labour government.
Norman? Send in the Chancellor. Yes leader.
The next Prime Minister is being viewed through the prism
of the Iron Lady, so what's the verdict
I find I'm driven inevitably to support Andrea Leadsom, despite her
lack of experience. And on Artsnight - Bowie,
Bedlam and the great outdoors. Maria Balshaw of The Whitworth
in Manchester on the The murder of five police officers
in Dallas during a protest sparked by the killing of two
African American men by police in Minnesota and Louisiana,
has compounded the twin problems of guns and racial tension that
are besetting America. President Obama said that the police
deaths were a wrenching reminder of the sacrifices the police make,
and before the shootings, he had expressed solidarity
with the protesters after the most Obama has said repeatedly
that his failure to pass what he called "common sense gun
safety laws" is the greatest But perhaps too, his failure to turn
into reality the now seemingly impossible dream
of a "post-racial" America. We'll hear the story
of the day in a moment. But first, joining us from Dallas,
is Malik Aziz, who is a Dallas police officer and also chair
of the National Black Police First tonight, can you tell me, what
is the atmosphere in Dallas today? I can tell you from a couple of
perspectives. Our hearts are very heavy here in Dallas. Our
condolences, thoughts and prayers are going down to the five officers
that were lost here last night. But the atmosphere is very sombre. The
outreach of love and support from citizens here, and from our friends
around the world and across the United States, they have given us so
much love to prop us up at such a traumatic time and a time of need.
So the atmosphere is very sombre. In my 27 years in law enforcement I
have never had a day like this where I have felt this way, the worst day
of my career, and many others who have been here way longer than I
have. Of the wounded, are any office is critical, or does it look like
they will all pull through? I believe, and we pray, that the worst
has passed, and we will not lose another officer. That's what we are
praying. I think we will make it over that hump. With the love and
support and prayers of people around the world, I think we can do that.
It's still tragic to lose five of the most talented officers who were
very courageous. I would want your viewers to know that in the face of
danger, when people were running away, our job and responsibility,
our call to duty caused those officers to run into harm's way.
This mad coward who decided to take the lives of some of our best and
finest. You talk about a gunman in the singular. Earlier there were
more suspects. Have you settled that this was certainly a man acting
alone now? The Dallas police have been very thorough. We believe we
have one of the best investigative entities in the nation and across
the world. They have taken, through great pain, they have turned over
every stone, looked under every rock and in every crevice, and we believe
when the chief police comes out to make a statement, we are sure he
confirm it was a loan madman acting alone, on himself. But we act with
due diligence, and if we make an arrest and detain anyone, it's for
the betterment of the city, for a safer environment in where we live,
work and play. We'll get to the bottom of it. We want to make sure
that all that happened was that he was alone, and we will not stop
until we find out everything we need to know. In a moment we will speak
to Collette Flanagan, one of the founders of Mothers Against Police
Brutality. Her son was shot by police in 2013. I understand you
have changed your policing model in Dallas. What has changed? Under
chief Brown we have always had a commitment to community engagement.
Many people have a belief that police across the world is
monolithic. It's 800,000 police here, and 18,000 police departments.
Dallas is just one of them. We are not without our troubles and errors.
We are not without some form of challenge or barrier. Unfortunately
we can't do everything 100%, but we strive to. There have been things
along the way. But community policing and community engagement,
every chief has expanded on that to make it better. I believe our
current chief, David Brown, has done an exceptional job in compound in
this and making it better and in gauging with the community. That
takes growth, a partnership, and police and community working
together. -- engaging with the community. Sometimes we might
disagree, but we do not want to stand still. We have to do is put
our best foot forward. My condolences go out to the families
whose sons and daughters here and across the nation have been killed
in officer involved shootings. We would not have hearts or compassion
if we did not say that. We have to understand that in the Dallas police
we strive for a more professional model. But we are not without our
faults. Thank you very much for joining us.
Well, here's Secunder Karmani on the how the day's event's unfolded.
It started as one more protest against yet more police shootings of
black men in America. Go, go! It descended into terror as shots rang
out. Get back! Protesters ran in fear for their lives. This seemed a
coordinated attack. And it had a clear target, the police. Just
started shooting, all the police, I saw them bending over. There were
five or six cops all getting shot down. A total of five officers were
killed and seven others were injured. Here you see the desperate
efforts by some to care for their wounded colleagues. One of the
gunman fires at officers from behind a pillar. Moments later in seems to
graphic to show, he shoots a policeman at point-blank range. Two
suspects were arrested following a police chase, and a third was
detained elsewhere in the city. Another, who had been holed up in a
car park with a stand-off with police was killed after they
detonated a bomb they sent in with a robot. He has been named locally as
Micah Johnson, a former US Army reserve. Before being killed he
spoke to police negotiators about his motivation. The suspect said he
was upset about black lives matter. He said he was upset about the
recent police shootings. The suspect said he was upset at white people.
The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white
officers. He was trying to get out his ID, his wallet out his pocket,
and he let the officer know that he was... He had a firearm but was
reaching for his wallet. And the officer just shot him in his arm.
This is one of the shocking police shootings he was referring to. On
Wednesday, a woman in Minnesota broadcast live on Facebook moments
after her boyfriend was shot by police. Oh my God, please don't tell
me he's dead. Please don't tell me my brief and just went like that.
Yes, I will keep my hands where they are. The video caused outrage.
Despite her boyfriend's injuries, the woman is handcuffed and detained
but continues to stream live. Her boyfriend's death was the 507th at
the hands of police in America this year. 123 of whom were black.
Earlier this week a man in Louisiana was also shot by police, despite
apparently being held down. The publicised spate of police killings
by black men, many recorded on camera beginning in 2014 lead to a
newly energised black rights movement. Now some armed groups have
gone completely legally bringing weapons to protests, they say in
order to protect themselves. This is the Newton gun club in Dallas,
filmed earlier this year for a BBC documentary. They were at the
protest last night but say they were not connected to the shooting at
all. Dallas is grieving tonight. The question is, our events there the
beginning of more violence? Most say no, but race elections will be
affected. What I feel has changed in America in the relationship between
police and the African-American community, I feel like it's made
things worse. Part of the reason why the police chief in Dallas kept
saying, we need to find a way to come together and end divisiveness,
is because this adds to divisiveness. Because this shooter
happened to the African-American, people won't look at this as being
one horrible individual who did a terrible thing, it will become an
indictment on the Black Lives Matter movement, and people will accuse the
movement of doing it, when amusement had nothing to do with this
individual. For America's law enforcement, this has been the sing
single largest loss of life since 9/11. It feeds into issues of race
and gun control, both issues America has long grappled with.
Joining me now from downtown Dallas is Reverend Michael Waters,
who spoke at yesterday's protest and witnessed the shootings.
And Collette Flanagan, a founder of Mothers Against Police Brutality,
whose own son was shot dead by Dallas police
Good evening to both of you. I wonder if you heard our reporter
there, Michael, talking about the possible deterioration in race
relations. I wonder what your job has been like today as a minister.
Part of my job today has been to paint a picture of what transpired
last night in totality. What began as a beautiful movement for Justice,
representative of all ethnicities, genders and background, once it had
been dismissed was met with violence by somebody who was not a
participant at a gathering. I wanted to share with the world that it was
a beautiful night, a just night, a night of peace and collaboration
between police officers and those coming for the rally and for the
march. I want to let the world know we are grieving and hurting even
more so than when we came together last night. Collette Flanagan, I
know you were not actually at the demonstration last night, but as a
founder of Mothers Against Police Brutality, let me take you back to
the events of Minnesota and Louisiana and say that they must
bring terrible reminders of your own son's death.
I am sorry, I could not understand the last part of that. I said people
were out in protest last night because of the recent killings in
Louisiana and Minnesota. They must have brought back memories of your
own son's death. Absolutely. To lose a child is devastating, especially
when you lose a child to police brutality. My thoughts were with the
families that lost their children. Yes, it raises lots of emotions.
Tell me, in your view, is there the same level of Justice in America now
for black members of the American community and white members? Is the
level of justice the same, as far as you are concerned? Absolutely not.
We know that a black man, executed or killed more than white
counterparts by policemen. There are statistics that prove that. For
instance, in Dallas alone, there have been over 60 families that have
lost children through police brutality in the last ten years. The
last time a policeman was indicted for shooting an unarmed and mentally
ill person in Dallas was 1973, when Richard Nixon was president. There
is definitely an injustice with senseless police killings in Dallas.
It is the untold story that is waiting to be told. Michael, I
wonder what your view is on the disparity of justice. This is a
historical disparity and it covers the totality of the African-
American experience. There is a wealth disparity, a health discount
that is not the disparity, an educational disparity and a justice
disparity. All of this adds up and oftentimes comes to boiling points,
such as BC in America today. We have never fully address the issue of
America's greatest and original saying, the issue of racism and how
it has manifested itself throughout the totality of our society. I
suggest you would think that was compounded by the lack of gun
control. Well, we know that a black man carrying a gun is oftentimes
treated differently than a white man ( a gun. It causes you to question
the validity of that law. -- carrying. Are the rights extended
for all or for some? Time and again, we have borne the very painful
witness that many of the laws in this country are not all but
constructed for some. I want to put it to you that Barack Obama has said
his great frustration is his failure to have dealt with guns in America.
Do you believe it is a failure of his? I am sorry, I could not hear
the last part. Do you believe that Barack Obama believes that he has
failed to deal with guns in America? It has been one of his big failures,
he says. Absolutely. That is a huge problem in America. We have not
figured out how to exercise our second amendment with keeping
everyone's Civil Liberties and civil rights intact. Just like in police
departments, we have to have data on who is getting guns and who should
not have guns. We have to have data, how many people have been killed by
policemen. We have 18,000 police also is. We live in a nation where
we can tell you how money people have blue eyes but we have no
database to tell you how many people have been killed by policemen. We
have to have gun control and police brutality and registration and
writing legislation for police brutality. We needed on a federal
level. Thank you both for joining us tonight. Thank you.
In just over a week's time David Cameron is expected to call
a vote on the renewal of Britain's nuclear deterrent, and when he does
it will put Jeremy Corbyn, himself ardently anti-Trident,
He will be in collision, not only with many Labour
MPs, but also with some of the trade unions.
And, as our Political Editor Nick Watt reveals,
the much-vaunted Labour Review on Nuclear Weapons, spearheaded
by Emily Thornberry, may not be going to go his way either.
In a month's time, Jeremy Corbyn will be marking the 71st anniversary
of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. Last year, at the height of Corbyn-
mania during the Labour leadership contest, he came to the Washington
Memorial in the Central London Square to highlight his lifelong
opposition to nuclear weapons. That is why we are going to be here,
every year, for as long as it takes to bring about our dream, our
collective dream, the world free of nuclear weapons. Thank you very
much. Many Labour members who voted for Jeremy Corbyn in the Labour
leadership contest felt that his presence, like the Hiroshima
memorial, and the language used in the rally, guaranteed and no ifs, no
buts approach to unilateral disarmament. Newsnight has learned
that the Labour defence review under his leadership will leave the door
open to a continuing UK nuclear deterrent. I understand that the
review into the future of the UK passed back nuclear weapons system
is still a work in progress and will need to be refreshed after the EU
referendum result. It has at its heart five tests a future Labour
government would evaluate to decide whether to support continuing
nuclear deterrent. The five tests ask whether the nuclear deterrent
would make a demonstrable contribution to the friends of the
UK, whether it would represent value for money, have an impact on jobs
and development, whether it would make a contribution to multilateral
disarmament and stand the test of time in the face of new
technologies. Newsnight understands that Jeremy Corbyn believes that the
report could provide a middle way between outright disarmament and
maintaining a full-scale nuclear weapons system. Under this thinking,
the UK could fulfil its new treaty obligations to take active steps
towards disarmament by allowing Trident to run its course or by
reducing the number of submarines and warheads. I know CNC supporters
have huge respect for Jeremy Corbyn and they know his personal
commitment. -- CND. They will appreciate the challenges he has
faced in bringing the rest of his parliamentary party with him put I
do think there will be disappointed in a defensively that raises more
questions than it answers. It means you cannot look at the Labour Party
led by Jeremy Corbyn and be sure it will be standing for unilateral
nuclear disarmament, which is what he promised. One long-standing
Labour ally in the campaign for nuclear disarmament is relaxed about
the tests in a bid to abandon the nuclear deterrent. I have my own
view about the tests. People, not only CND members, that people who
look objectively at the situation Britain is in its requirements for
defence, the economic resources it has available, my view is that
people would be inclined to think it was not good value for money. A
halfway house option which could see a Labour government under Jeremy
Corbyn retaining a reduced programme as a first step towards his lifelong
goal of ridding Britain of its nuclear weapons would naturally be
unacceptable to CND. I think there are very compelling reasons why we
do not need to have nuclear weapons. They are unusable, they are weapons
of mass destruction, they are very expensive. They do not meet our
security needs. Having less of them, OK, maybe that is a step forward.
Still we have less of something we do not need. Really we have to have
nothing of what we do not need. Labour supporters of the nuclear
deterrent believe the entire defence review is redundant anyway. I do not
see how all of these studies take the argument forward at all. If the
potential future Prime Minister has already decided he will never use
these weapons, he does not believe in nuclear deterrence. You may as
well not have any nuclear weapons at all. Until that fundamental
conundrum is resolved, I think the study probably does not add up to a
row of beans. In a few weeks' time, Jeremy Corbyn is expected to retrace
his steps to the Hiroshima memorial with the burden of leadership and
the need to broker an agreement in his divided party. His language
issue is likely to be less clear-cut.
Tata Steel has postponed plans to sell some of its UK operations -
According to the Business Secretary the decision by the UK to leave
the EU has added a fresh layer of uncertainty for
However Tata also said they are in early talks
with Thyssen Krupp, a big European steel manufacturer
about the possibility of a joint venture.
I'm joined by our business editor, Helen Thomas.
Helen, remind us of how we got here. This has been dragging on for three
long months. Tata Steel said it wanted to sell its UK business. It
was making considerable losses. What they are saying now is they want to
sell some parts of it. Certain businesses in Hartlepool and
Yorkshire. They are talking to a big German company about the joint
venture. Now, the vote to leave the EU added a whole layer of extra
questions about this business. I am told the sales process had ground to
a halt. The bits that Tata steel got just came at too high a cost to the
company and they decided to go down this all turn to fruit. What does
this mean for the workforce? -- all turn it if route. The workforce has
little clarity today, as yesterday. What I'm confident of is that Tata
is doing everything it can, we are providing all
the support we can. I'm actually encouraged by this news
today that they are talking to a partner and thinking
about forming this joint venture because I think having another
option is just the kind of news In a narrow sense, this is good
news. Tata has not walked away from this raises some other questions. It
is widely thought by analyst investors that the German company
would rather get out of European steel-making altogether and focus on
other countries. They have been very vocal about the need for
consolidation on European steel. They say it is too big for the end
demand. That suggests that any combination could still mean
cost-cutting, still mean job losses. The aim would be to create a bigger,
more profitable company that ultimately would be easier to sell.
I think this is progress in a small way but there are obstacles to doing
this deal and I have been told tonight that separating, or
overhauling, the pension fund attached to the Tata steel business
is a prerequisite. And the Government has two figure that out.
The new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
is going to be a women, that much is clear.
To judge by the newspaper headlines she'll be measured against Margaret
Now newspaper headlines are by nature reductive, but really?
Is it because she'll be taking on the European Union OR,
is it because the Conservatives, despite John Major, William Hague,
Iain Duncan Smith, Michael Howard and David Cameron still can't see
past Margaret Thatcher, or imagine another female model?
Well, this evening we spoke to Lord Tebbit, who was one
of Mrs Thatcher's closest allies in government and one
of the most assiduous keepers of the Thatcherite flame.
What does he make of the comparisons?
Andrea Leadsom is more of an unknown quantity.
She's relatively inexperienced as a politician and as a minister
but she seems to have about her qualities,
some of the qualities, which Thatcher had.
Thatcher was, of course, marked by being Middle England,
middle-class, shopkeeper's daughter, devout nonconformist Christian,
Leadsom has a couple of those advantages at any rate.
I find that I'm driven inevitably to support Andrea Leadsom,
She will have a lot of good people round about her,
not fellow politicians alone, but the civil service.
From my time in government, I have the civil service in high regard.
Lord Tebbitt had less complimentary words
I don't see the fact that Theresa May has been in one
department for a long time is particularly relevant.
What would be more relevant would be if she had been
If the police were firmly on the side of the Government,
and if we had got immigration down to the target which she was
But we're way, way, way away from that.
Norman Tebbit there with his views on the current state
An extraordinary headline in the Times. Being a mother gives me the
edge on Theresa May. Generally I feel being a man means you have very
real stake in the future of the country, a tangible state. Andrea
Leadsom has responded saying, truly appalling and the exact opposite of
what I said. I am disgusted is what she said. Now, straight to Arts
night. London, Edinburgh, Bristol and York
all five for the price.
Kirsty Wark looks at the Dallas police shootings, the Tata deal and Labour's Trident review - which could disappoint Corbyn. Plus Lord Tebbit on comparisons between Thatcher, May and Leadsom.