11/07/2016 Newsnight


11/07/2016

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In two days' time, Great Britain will have a new Prime Minister.

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Here is how it all began. The interests of our country are best

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served by the immediate appointment of a strong and well supported Prime

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Minister. BBC, anyone? OK. Robert Peston? It is clear Theresa May as

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the overwhelming support of the Conservative Parliamentary party. I

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am honoured and humbled to have been chosen by the Conservative body to

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be its leader. With a full studio we ask

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if the country can unite around Theresa May and what her premiership

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will look like. Even by the crazy standards

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of the new political age, A campaign launched mid-morning saw

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the candidate heralded the next Theresa May had assumed

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she was making her first speech In the end, she was the only

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one left in the Tory leadership contest after

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Andrea Leadsom quit the field. So how did we get to a place

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where the Brexiteers won the battle so resoundingly but then

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lost the race, not once, And what does it mean when a Remain

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prime minister makes way for his long-standing Remain home

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secretary after the biggest electoral upheaval the country

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has seen for decades? There are plenty of questions to ask

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tonight, and we devote the lion's share of this programme to asking

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what the next few days, Before he head into the future

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though, here's Nick Watt The Conservative Party thought it

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might catch its breath today after a frantic period since the EU

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referendum. Theresa May kicked off what was expected to be a two-month

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campaign to win over Tory grassroots members while David Cameron made a

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predictable visit to the opening day of the Farnborough airshow. In a two

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definitive illustration of how a tweet now marks a long time in

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politics, Theresa May found that by the time she had become Prime

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Minister elect. Showing how quickly and brutally power can transfer in

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Britain, David Cameron was put on notice to pack his bags by

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Wednesday. To make way for the Home Secretary. She has the potential to

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be a great by Minister for our country. I have seen her work on the

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home of the select committee and on working through the investigatory

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Powers Bill and she has the result, she had the skills and the

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experience to make a great success of our country leaving Europe. This

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was never about who we want to go down the pub with, it was about

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having the right person with the right competent and experience and

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professionalism and seriousness to be able to be by Minister at a

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difficult time when we have real challenges ahead but also

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opportunities if we can have the right person as PM and today we have

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managed that. The Caravan sprang back into life again after

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everybody's plans were thrown in the air when Andrea Leadsom announced

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she was abandoning her bid for the premiership, the only Brexit support

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the left in the race claiming her modest support among Tory MPs would

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make it difficult for her to govern as Prime Minister. Allies said she

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was the victim of hostile briefing. And therefore withdrawing from the

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leadership election and I wish Theresa May the very greatest

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success. I assure her of my full support. Thank you very much. I do

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think there are people in the party that need to examine their own

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consciences about how they behaved and they need to recognise that this

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is not the way to treat colleagues. I hope they will reflect on that and

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decide that maybe, just maybe, putting your country first rather

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than your own personal ambitions is not a bad thing. In the interview

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with The Times, Andrea has had a difficult few days, do you think

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that played a part in her thinking? Obviously the whole saga around that

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interview was relevant because it caused a media storm but what I

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would point out, I don't think it had that big an effect on the

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members, it did not stop calls coming in to be from people who were

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enthusiastic about organising hustings on her behalf soap she

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struck a real chord with members and is incredibly important that the new

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government recognises the support and what she stood for and that it

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is respected. A senior figure in Andrea Leadsom's Kemp told me she

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walked straight into a trap laid by the Home Secretary's team -- camp.

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In one of the most extra break is of this campaign, this person told me

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the Home Secretary had deliberately talked last week and about her pain

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of not having children so that journalists could be enticed into

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asking Andrea Leadsom about her life as a mother. This person also told

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me that the Theresa May campaign were planning a second round in

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which the Home Secretary would talk about her battle against diabetes so

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that journalists could once again be encouraged to ask Andrea Leadsom

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about Theresa May's personal life. One senior Tory told Newsnight this

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was a weird conspiracy. Other members of the Leadsom team felt it

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was time to move on. The decision has been made and we have to be

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common sense about this. One of the things with Andrea, she is straight

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down the line and what is most important for the country is

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stability. If she can suck that up, I can as well. Theresa May is our

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girl now, Brexit means Brexit! -Ites aborted Theresa May because I

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thought she could step into the role straightaway and could deliver the

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negotiation that the people have voted for. We will have a new Prime

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Minister... Today marked the end of the road for the David Cameron but

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at least he managed to disprove Enoch Powell's famous saying that

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all political careers end in tears. He walked through the door humming

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HU. -- humming at Chungju. -- song. On Tuesday, David Cameron

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will hold his last Cabinet meeting At 12pm on Wednesday,

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David Cameron will hold his last Prime Minister's Questions

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in the Commons, before he leaves to seek

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an audience with the Queen. By Wednesday evening, Theresa May

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will become Britain's second She's insisted she won't hold

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an early election. Where to start? We saw the rapid and

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brutal way in which power is transferred in this country but

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interestingly, Theresa May has a 48-hour window for her first task,

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the apartment of her Cabinet. The first employment with sheep -- she

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will make is to refer to her promise where she would set up a Department

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for Brexit with a Brexit secretary of state, and Chris Grayling, her

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campaign manager, seems the obvious choice as he was a leading Brexit

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campaigner, which would give Brexit supporters hope that her pledge

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Brexit, means Brexit, but you will see a mixture of Brexit and

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remainders. That is the beginning but then it changes. On Wednesday,

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Barack Obama will visit her, the outgoing president congratulating an

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incoming Prime Minister, nice present there is, but the phone call

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with Angela Merkel might be tougher. Angela Merkel has said that she can

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understand why David Cameron couldn't trigger the formal UK exit

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from the EU but she said that the new prime ministers should do it.

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Theresa May has said that it will not be in this calendar year, so

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there may be some friction. She has two things in her favour, the Lisbon

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Treaty says that the exiting country should notify the European Council,

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and the next is not until October, three months away, and another

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thing, Theresa May is seen in Brussels as a really tough and

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credible negotiator. Thank you for joining us.

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Theresa May pledged today that Brexit meant Brexit,

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the bit of her speech that elicited the loudest cheers.

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She's often called a soft Remainer, someone who could perhaps

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So, what will her vision of Brexit look like?

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Matthew Hancock has been a firm supporter of hers,

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and has also worked closely with the Chancellor, George

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Thank you for joining us. Many people don't think they know Theresa

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May even know she has been at the centre of power for so long. Which

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of these labels would apply to her? Is she a moderniser? What she is

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aiming to do and made very clear in her speech this morning, which I

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thought was terrific, is that she wants to bring unity to the party

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and to the country. We've just had this referendum campaign, it was

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clearly divisive and bringing people together, within the party and then,

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perhaps more importantly, in the country as a whole, is what she

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talked about. Is that a moderniser? I'm wondering whether she would

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encourage Michael Gove's reforms in education, or prisons? I think she

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is a unifying figure, that's what we've seen in the result of the

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ballot of MPs, 199 MPs including meat supported her, more than half

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of the parliamentary party, -- including me. She also has a very

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strong sense of leadership. She clearly sets out what she believes

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and then follows it, we've seen that at the Home Office and we saw it

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with some of the clear direction. With the greatest respect, we heard

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that from her today and we heard a lot about it in her speech, but we

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are trying to get a sense from people who know her of what this

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will look like. Would you call her somebody like Cameron, does she

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believe in gay marriage, does she believe in the big society? Will she

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follow that line in his thinking? Well, she supported equal marriage

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and she was on the front page of the manifesto, the 2015 manifesto, so

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clearly there is a lot to build on, in delivering the rest of the

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manifesto but also an agenda and a vision that she set out today.

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Making sure that the economy works for everyone, the thread of that

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speech has been the thread of her leadership campaign. Interesting,

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many people picked up echoes of Ed Miliband, the reference to the

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predators, capitalism not working for everyone, the sense of getting

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workers on board, being more accountable. Do you think that's

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where she is placing herself? She is very clear that the good thing about

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the last six years is that we have the economy recovering, getting the

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deficit down, but we must make sure it works for everybody and reaches

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the parts it hasn't reached. This is an important part of the agenda. Of

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course you've got to support businesses to create the jobs that

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people need but that doesn't mean you can't reform the way that the

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economy works so that the wealth generation is spread more broadly

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across the country. I think that is something she supports. You said

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about supporting parts that others can't reach, you must be worried

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about what this looks like to the rest of the country now, are you, in

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terms of the solidity of her mandate? Well clearly the country is

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calling out for some solidity and strength of leadership, that is the

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strong sense I get, whether you talk to businesses, constituents, people

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are looking for leadership in Britain. And will they say that this

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is a leader who has been brought in by 199 MPs, that isn't 17 million

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people voting for Brexit, is it? She is very clearly going to deliver

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Brexit, Brexit means Brexit, as she has said. You understand my point,

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essentially this radical, huge and people in British politics saw David

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Cameron resigning because he was a Remain Prime Minister and in essence

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they brought in the girl next door, his Home Secretary, a Remain Home

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Secretary. Is that going to cause a problem and will you have to go to

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the country for an election? No, we don't need a general election but we

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need to listen to the concerns of some of the people who voted to

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leave and make sure that they are addressed, that's all part of

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unifying the country. But it needs strongly the ship and it needs that

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unity and then it needs a bold vision of where the country goes --

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strongly needs leadership. Things like the amount of money that is

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paid to international aid, that percentage of GDP, is that something

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she would say that we've heard a lot of voices within the party and the

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country saying we need to abolish it? That's clear in the manifesto.

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What I think we are... What I would expect to see, building on what she

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said today and what she's to MPs about, making sure that we

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concentrate not just on wealth creation, but making sure everybody

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can share a part of it -- talking to MPs about. So the manifesto first

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and foremost, not a new Brexit manifesto? We have a parliamentary

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democracy, we have a new Prime Minister who has the full support of

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the Conservative Party, people who supported her, people who supported

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other people in the leadership race, now all of them backing Theresa May

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because she is clearly the best person for the job of Prime Minister

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right now in a period where Britain needs some unity and strength of

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leadership and I'm sure that's what she'll provide. Thank you for

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joining us. Europe has breathed something

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of a sigh of relief tonight that Britain has at least begun

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to get its house in order. Theresa May is well known

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as a negotiator in Brussels, seen as a commendably

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tough nut after her six In that job, she fought

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hard to deport foreign criminals from the UK but failed

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to bring immigration In her first speech today,

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she pledged to prioritise house building, narrow the gap

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between employees and fat cats Her pitch was firmly centre ground,

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some would say borrowing more than a few ideas from

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the former Labour leaders. Today was supposed to be

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the first in a series We are only going to get one now

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but it was pretty striking. A proper industrial strategy

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wouldn't automatically stop the sale But it should be capable of stepping

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in to defend a sector that is as important

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as pharmaceuticals to Britain. The FTSE, for example,

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is trading at about the same level as it was 18 years ago and it's

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nearly 10% below its high peak. Yet in the same period,

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executive pay has more than trebled. So if I'm Prime Minister

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we are going to change that system and that means having not just

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consumers represented on company Some commentators were quite

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surprised by that speech, seeing it as un-Tory,

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somehow, but what has Theresa May has been Home Secretary

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for so long that people have She was one of the original arch

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modernisers, she supported Michael Portillo for leader back

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in 2001 and in 2002 she gave a speech that has gone down

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in Conservative Party folklore. Our base is too narrow and so,

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occasionally, are our sympathies. I know that's unfair,

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you know that's unfair but it is the people out

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there we need to convince. What will Prime Minister May do

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then? She doesn't do speeches for the sake

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of making speeches. She actually, one of her virtues

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is that when she said something If she is talking about corporate

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reform in a leadership campaign that has now ended, she will want to do

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that in government. As Home Secretary, she imposed

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elected commissioners on the police shook up stop and search

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and demanded changes from the Police Federation,

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which acts as a union The Federation was created by an act

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of Parliament and it can be reformed If you do not change

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of your own accord, we will impose Some have read her fight

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with the police as a sign Theresa took on the police

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because she saw it as an unreformed area of public services

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where she could build up some sort of anti-union credentials

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but when it came to the security services and tackling terrorism,

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she has always been I think you can see that in the way

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she pushed for the Snoopers' Charter without even questioning

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what the agencies wanted. There is a consensus among

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people who have worked with her that she is a Tory public

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service reformer, not a liberal. There is a lot going on in the big

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public services, schools or at health or work and pensions

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so we will probably What I think we will probably see

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is there will be other areas of policy that she might

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want to focus on with a lot We know that Michael Gove has been

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doing a lot of interesting work in justice and that would be one

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area I hope she would do. The mark against Theresa May for

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many people is that she continually missed the 100,000 person a year

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net immigration target. But she annoyed swathes

:18:25.:18:27.

of government as she She was a very tough

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negotiator, very tough. And the business department

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in which I worked did not win all the arguments we would have

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with the Home Office. This is part of why some

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ministers say she is chilly. That and lots of journalists

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dislike her absence from the usual Westminster old boys clubs

:18:51.:18:53.

but Theresa May develops allies For example, she has a good rapport

:18:54.:18:55.

with Bernard Cazeneuve, We can't say that much

:18:56.:18:58.

about our new Prime Minister but Theresa May's instincts

:18:59.:19:04.

are radical and her speech today suggests she is still serious

:19:05.:19:06.

about reaching beyond the Tory base. Joining me now, Crispin Blunt,

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who worked with May in his role as Justice Minister,

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and Theresa May's good friend the former Tory Treasurer,

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Lady Catherine Meyer. Thank you for coming in. I'm going

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to start with you, Lady Catherine. You have known her for 12 years and

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it was interesting hearing Chris sake we don't know much, we don't

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know a woman who has been right at the heart of politics for ten years.

:19:38.:19:43.

That is the person she is. People have a perception of her on the

:19:44.:19:48.

outside but people don't know her privately and privately she is very

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kind and caring person. I have known her for 12 years, professionally and

:19:55.:19:59.

also as a friend and also professionally not only as a member

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of the Tory party but as I run a charity to deal with missing and

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abducted children and she has been quite amazing. She is a person who

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really cares, she cares about children, about human issues. You

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talk to her and she listens to you and there is a completely different

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side to her. Do you think that side will have to come out now? We saw

:20:23.:20:27.

her publish photos of her childhood and wedding and her parents for the

:20:28.:20:30.

first time. Does she acknowledged she has to bridge the gap? Maybe it

:20:31.:20:36.

is because it is what the media demands but I also admire her for

:20:37.:20:41.

being so stomach. She is the person she is. She is different, she does

:20:42.:20:46.

not wear her heart on her sleeve, she does not come out and do

:20:47.:20:49.

television all the time. She does not need all this attention. She is

:20:50.:20:55.

a hard-working woman who is loyal and direct and of course people need

:20:56.:20:58.

to know her more but they need also to respect her, respect the calm

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hard-working person she is to lead our country. This is the moment the

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proverbial alien lands and says the bucket is won and they have

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imploded. It cannot make sense, what has gone on -- Brexiteer Bubba. One

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after leaders vanish or self-destruct. She

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stepped into space by making it clear that she will deliver Brexit.

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Given how businesslike she is and how focused she is on delivery, that

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gives me confidence at somebody who supported the Leave campaign that

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she will deliver it. You can happily waved goodbye? I voted Out, I have

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been a Eurosceptic for 20 years but I think she is the right person. I

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know Theresa and when she says she is going to do something, I should

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not call her Theresa, I should call her the future Prime Minister but

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when she said she would do something, she will do it. Do you

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have a niggling sense she might have voted Out in her privacy? No because

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she is a loyal person. The Prime Minister was In and she followed the

:22:16.:22:20.

primary step. When we talk about the Cameron government or the Blair

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government, we think of good friends who have known each other for years

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but she does not have that support system. What you see is what you get

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which is white your suggestion that she might have voted Out is

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completely misreading her. She is very direct. She would see that is

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completely wrong to do that and any suggestion that her supporters would

:22:43.:22:45.

go off and vote for Michael Gove in order to get him in the final, she

:22:46.:22:49.

had plenty of votes at her disposal and they could have run an operation

:22:50.:22:54.

to get Michael Gove past Leadsom but she was crystal kit that was not to

:22:55.:22:59.

happen. She was quite quiet in terms of how much of herself she put out

:23:00.:23:04.

into the Remain campaign. She would have been carefully controlled. She

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is the minister responsible for immigration which was not an issue

:23:10.:23:12.

that the Remain campaign wanted to focus on so that is probably an

:23:13.:23:15.

explanation about the management of the campaign. I just think that she

:23:16.:23:22.

is a loyal person, very Eurosceptic she knows the EU, she will be a

:23:23.:23:28.

fantastic negotiator for us. She is a Eurosceptic. So she only voted

:23:29.:23:34.

remaining group out of loyalty? Because she is a pragmatist and she

:23:35.:23:39.

looked at the facts and decided, also being a loyal person, that it

:23:40.:23:44.

was better to stay in but I think she is very sceptical of the

:23:45.:23:47.

European Union and this is what I would say to all Brexit people who

:23:48.:23:53.

doubt her, there is no way when she says, Brexit is Brexit, she means

:23:54.:24:00.

it. And I also wanted a sense that she could see the opportunities for

:24:01.:24:06.

the UK outside the EU. And very quickly she easily got into that

:24:07.:24:11.

territory. That is the outward, Brexit facing side but what about

:24:12.:24:17.

domestically? Who is her set? Who is her sofa? I think that is wonderful,

:24:18.:24:24.

where she is so different to the other prime ministers. Most of the

:24:25.:24:27.

people who come into number ten, it is normal, they come in with their

:24:28.:24:33.

set of friends. That is normal, you want to be surrounded by people you

:24:34.:24:37.

can trust. But I believe that Theresa is very different to that.

:24:38.:24:42.

She will come in and look pragmatically at who are the right

:24:43.:24:45.

people, the people who can do the job, and she does not have a group

:24:46.:24:49.

of friends to bring in with her. Would you agree? Completely. That is

:24:50.:24:58.

what makes her different, she will take a businesslike assessment

:24:59.:25:02.

people's abilities. It is white we thought she would find it difficult

:25:03.:25:06.

in the leadership race because there were not an army of mates for her,

:25:07.:25:09.

she had not created that personal group. And we should not be worried

:25:10.:25:13.

about a woman who does not have an army of mates. They give very much.

:25:14.:25:17.

-- thank you very much. So, the contest that would have been

:25:18.:25:18.

determined by the vote of just 0.25% of the population was in the end

:25:19.:25:22.

determined by a microscopic 0.00055% This, to answer the unrest

:25:23.:25:25.

of 17 million voters complaining So how credible is it

:25:26.:25:29.

to install, crown, a Remainer? And what do those in

:25:30.:25:35.

the Brexit heartlands feel? In the end it was a race that was

:25:36.:25:58.

never really run. The contenders for the Conservative leadership were

:25:59.:26:01.

eliminated or resigned leaving Theresa May the winner. But how well

:26:02.:26:07.

a Prime Minister in favour of Remain go down in Brexit heartlands like

:26:08.:26:12.

Harlow in Essex? Did she went a lot of races? Dave owns the Greyhound

:26:13.:26:19.

racing Stadium here and was a firm Leave supporter. He wanted Michael

:26:20.:26:22.

Gove to be leader and believes he should have been let back into the

:26:23.:26:26.

race. I would like to see Michael Gove reinstated and let the

:26:27.:26:32.

Conservative Party vote. Why do you think it is important? There is a

:26:33.:26:37.

lot of people out there who have joined the Conservative Party, I'm

:26:38.:26:40.

not saying which the way they would have gone, but I think they have

:26:41.:26:47.

then a trooper minister. -- true Prime Minister. Up the road at the

:26:48.:26:56.

Cannon Brook Cull .com the chair of the local Conservative Association

:26:57.:26:59.

says they have seen a big increase in members joining since the

:27:00.:27:00.

referendum. -- Kallenberg golf club. I don't think she did a lot for the

:27:01.:27:16.

Remain camp. Is that one of the reasons why you find her more

:27:17.:27:20.

acceptable? I think it is more the experience she has. She is

:27:21.:27:24.

compassionate and I think she will bring the party back together again.

:27:25.:27:31.

But did the Tory Leave voters on the course agree? I don't think it

:27:32.:27:36.

should be a walkover, you have not done anything and nobody has voted

:27:37.:27:40.

for you and you have just stepped in. Do you think she might not

:27:41.:27:45.

implement the full Brexit? I don't think she will, I think she must

:27:46.:27:50.

have her own views and you will always try to put your own views in

:27:51.:27:57.

front of other things. I think the Prime Minister might set the scene

:27:58.:28:00.

but there are too many Cabinet ministers around, if she does stray

:28:01.:28:04.

off the beaten track, they will correct. And you don't worry that

:28:05.:28:08.

she might try to soften the impact of Brexit and sneakily get us back

:28:09.:28:13.

in? There is no chance in hell that we will get a second referendum on

:28:14.:28:20.

the European think it is done and dusted, finished. On Wednesday,

:28:21.:28:26.

Theresa May tees off as PM. Most Brexiteers here seem willing to give

:28:27.:28:32.

her a chance but only if she implement the policies they voted

:28:33.:28:33.

for. The party expected the launch

:28:34.:28:34.

of Angela Eagle's leadership bid But by lunchtime even she herself

:28:35.:28:38.

was looking round the deserted room But the party knows it may

:28:39.:28:46.

have to ready itself Talk us through the bit

:28:47.:28:49.

that no one really saw. Pitied Paul Angela Eagle, she

:28:50.:29:03.

launched her campaign and it was overshadowed by Andrea Leadsom's

:29:04.:29:07.

decision to drop out of the Conservative leadership contest but

:29:08.:29:10.

if they had been there, they would have seen that Angela Eagle had

:29:11.:29:14.

quite a cross-section of support, Harriet Harman and those from the

:29:15.:29:18.

left. Essentially Angela Eagle's message is that she is from the left

:29:19.:29:23.

and she represents a change not of ideology but personnel, from

:29:24.:29:25.

incompetence, to competence. This is what she said. Well I think we know

:29:26.:29:33.

that to be the leader of the Labour Party you have to lead in Parliament

:29:34.:29:37.

too. We've seen Jeremy not do that job. He's been hiding behind a door,

:29:38.:29:44.

not talking to his members of Parliament. That's not leadership.

:29:45.:29:48.

We need a leader who can take the confidence of the parliamentary

:29:49.:29:52.

party with him, and he hasn't been able to do that. And what happens

:29:53.:30:01.

now? The ballot is where things get complicated. There is a membership

:30:02.:30:04.

of the executive committee which will decide whether Jeremy Corbyn

:30:05.:30:08.

must do what Angela Eagle has done, get at least 51 signatures

:30:09.:30:13.

supporting his candidacy. Jeremy Corbyn has some legal advice which

:30:14.:30:16.

says he is automatically on the ballot because party walls talk

:30:17.:30:21.

about how challengers need nominations but Iain McNicol, the

:30:22.:30:25.

Labour Party general secretary says he has legal advice saying that all

:30:26.:30:31.

candidates must be treated equally, meaning Corbyn must get 51

:30:32.:30:34.

signatures to be there. There will be eight Bush at the NEC meeting to

:30:35.:30:42.

have a ballot to do it on secret -- there will be a push. There will be

:30:43.:30:46.

members of the NEC who may be wary of putting their heads above the

:30:47.:30:50.

parapet but if it is in private, they may go against Corbyn. Whatever

:30:51.:30:54.

decision they make, it's going to be in the courts. We'll be watching

:30:55.:30:56.

tomorrow. It is only Monday -

:30:57.:30:58.

remind yourself of that - but by the middle of the week

:30:59.:31:01.

the country will have Cameron's Conservatism will belong

:31:02.:31:03.

to history and May's Britain will spell out how to begin divorce

:31:04.:31:06.

from the EU and establish Britain's credentials with the

:31:07.:31:09.

rest of the world. With us now, Francis Maude, Tessa

:31:10.:31:11.

Jowell and perhaps Alex Salmond. We will see if he joins us. Nice to

:31:12.:31:29.

have you here. The thing I have been aware of the day, without realising

:31:30.:31:34.

it, is that the whispering has gone, the Conservative whispering has

:31:35.:31:38.

pretty much gone now. Do you think this was blood-letting? Do you think

:31:39.:31:45.

they have got their loyalty back after this? We are generally quite

:31:46.:31:49.

good at that. It wasn't so good after Thatcher left because she cast

:31:50.:31:54.

a very long shadow and the circumstances of her being, as it

:31:55.:31:59.

were, the Venice traded, were quite brutal, it was quite quick and it

:32:00.:32:05.

took time for the wounds to heal -- as it were, thrown out of the

:32:06.:32:09.

window. This is a different event, events coming around in a different

:32:10.:32:14.

way. I wonder if it looks to you, you can see the mess that Labour is

:32:15.:32:18.

in, there is something so brutal about the way the Tories do this

:32:19.:32:22.

stuff, but they get back into power, that's how it happens. Well, members

:32:23.:32:29.

of the Labour Party, members of Parliament are absolutely hating

:32:30.:32:34.

this. I think it's impossible to describe the depths of despair that

:32:35.:32:38.

a lot of members of Parliament feel. This being the Corbyn row? Jeremy

:32:39.:32:47.

Corbett insisting on staying on, you know, not engaging with the peace

:32:48.:32:55.

talks or the withdrawal talks, transition talks with Tom Watson,

:32:56.:33:01.

insisting on staying when 80% of the parliamentary party have lost

:33:02.:33:04.

confidence in him. It's a terrible place to be. I mean, whatever else

:33:05.:33:10.

it is, it is the height of selfishness. It is absolutely the

:33:11.:33:19.

case that we now have a party of about 600,000 people, but the only

:33:20.:33:23.

purpose of a political party is to build a road to power. Because the

:33:24.:33:29.

Labour Party in government can transform this country for the

:33:30.:33:32.

better, transform people's lives in ways that they can't do on their

:33:33.:33:38.

own. So the Tories have a free rein in power, for the foreseeable

:33:39.:33:45.

future? And I hope that it will be that. I think you are wrapping up

:33:46.:33:49.

far too many long-term generalisations in that. The Labour

:33:50.:33:57.

Party has to get itself back to the left of centre progressive grounds

:33:58.:34:00.

that represents the consensus of politics in this country, reach out

:34:01.:34:05.

to those communities who feel they have been underrepresented and

:34:06.:34:09.

forgotten. I think it's very clear what could be done quickly by a

:34:10.:34:14.

government that recognised that it really mattered. Is Theresa May

:34:15.:34:20.

correct to rule out a general election when there will be this

:34:21.:34:24.

Gordon Brown like shadow hanging over her, giving her a smaller

:34:25.:34:27.

mandate? It is different circumstances because everyone knew

:34:28.:34:32.

that Tony Blair was not going to do the entire term, the timing wasn't

:34:33.:34:38.

planned but everyone knew that there would be a succession from Tony, to

:34:39.:34:42.

Gordon Brown. This is quite different. There is an urgent set of

:34:43.:34:47.

issues to deal with. Thank God we don't have to go through nine weeks

:34:48.:34:52.

of a leadership election, we can get a new Prime Minister quickly, that's

:34:53.:34:55.

great, but to say that we can't do anything until an election, that

:34:56.:34:59.

would be really bad. To pick up your point about whether the

:35:00.:35:02.

Conservatives have free rein, absolutely not. We went through, 15

:35:03.:35:09.

years ago, a period when Tony Blair was winning elections. Who is

:35:10.:35:14.

holding you to account now? We will be held to account in many different

:35:15.:35:19.

ways. It probably felt, when we were a very diminished while ari force

:35:20.:35:25.

after the 97 and 2001 elections after Labour wasn't held to account

:35:26.:35:29.

-- diminished parliamentary force. The interesting thing is that

:35:30.:35:35.

Theresa May was one of the first to see that actually the Conservative

:35:36.:35:38.

Party needed to change in order to be able to appeal, much more widely.

:35:39.:35:46.

Some of that may be beyond your control. She saw it before David

:35:47.:35:51.

Cameron, who then embodied it and lead the Conservative Party to be

:35:52.:35:56.

much more broad, to appeal much more widely, geographically and socially

:35:57.:35:58.

and ethnically, to have much more appeal to women than we had done.

:35:59.:36:04.

Theresa was there before David. Do you think there is a chance, this is

:36:05.:36:09.

Alex Salmond's point, that she could be the last Prime Minister of the

:36:10.:36:13.

United Kingdom? Well, let me unpick the question. I think I would

:36:14.:36:21.

disagree with Francis. I think a Prime Minister needs to have their

:36:22.:36:25.

own mandate and therefore the question about a general election is

:36:26.:36:33.

a question about timing. Not that I'm advising her, but I think there

:36:34.:36:39.

is so much uncertainty about the content, the terms of the Brexit

:36:40.:36:44.

negotiations, I think she should have a general election, once it is

:36:45.:36:49.

clearer. It would be good for those in the centre of Labour, wouldn't

:36:50.:36:53.

it? I think it absolutely worth, and it would be a good as -- it would be

:36:54.:36:58.

good as a way of answering questions many people in the country have, now

:36:59.:37:01.

they realise the scale of the uncertainty. That merges into having

:37:02.:37:08.

a rerun, not liking the result of the referendum, therefore we are we

:37:09.:37:12.

running it. It would be incredibly dangerous for democracy if we see

:37:13.:37:18.

what we have seen elsewhere in the EU, you get a result in a referendum

:37:19.:37:23.

that you don't like, so you go back again and again. You can't have

:37:24.:37:28.

that. You have to provide more certainty than the inner and out

:37:29.:37:35.

vote provides. We already seeing consequences of the votes that were

:37:36.:37:40.

anticipated in the campaign. You know, I was undeclared, I took no

:37:41.:37:47.

part in this,... How did you do that? Very easily, and I'm happy

:37:48.:37:51.

that I did because I thought that both sides were making very

:37:52.:37:55.

overblown campaigns. The Leave campaign were claiming things that

:37:56.:38:00.

were inconsistent and the Remain were making claims of doom and

:38:01.:38:06.

gloom... The last 48-hour is of David Cameron, I wonder how you will

:38:07.:38:11.

both see his premiership? One that ended in tears or one that didn't?

:38:12.:38:17.

Sadly, this is going to colour it a lot and that's a sad way for it to

:38:18.:38:21.

end because he's been a very good leader of the party and the country.

:38:22.:38:26.

He has always conveyed a sense that he's of speaking to the country, of

:38:27.:38:31.

rising to the big occasions. There has never been a time, just as I

:38:32.:38:36.

would say, as someone who always thought of Tony Blair as someone who

:38:37.:38:40.

was able to represent the country, someone where you saw him... The

:38:41.:38:46.

centre ground, in some way. Hearing Theresa May's speech, that was tanks

:38:47.:38:56.

parked firmly on Ed Miliband... Yes, and her strapline could have been

:38:57.:39:02.

from a speech by Ed Miliband or manifesto. That makes the point, the

:39:03.:39:08.

political centre of gravity is just that. It is the centre ground. David

:39:09.:39:14.

Cameron wanted to occupy that space in the way that Tony Blair did.

:39:15.:39:21.

That's why the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, understanding that he is

:39:22.:39:24.

trying to take the Labour Party in a direction that the people of this

:39:25.:39:29.

country will reject, is so wrong and that is why he should stand down. I

:39:30.:39:35.

think Angela has shown great courage in being prepared to take the fight.

:39:36.:39:43.

You probably know in your heart of hearts that she is no more likely to

:39:44.:39:46.

become Prime Minister than Corbyn is. Listen, we're in a time of great

:39:47.:39:53.

uncertainty. Was that a yes or no? Let's see. We should get out of the

:39:54.:40:01.

prediction business, actually! I was going to ask you, looking at 2016.

:40:02.:40:06.

There are not these kinds of certainties and the nature of

:40:07.:40:10.

politics is so dynamic and changing. What people want from politicians is

:40:11.:40:16.

changing. I think if anything must change, it is the elite showing more

:40:17.:40:20.

humility, and becoming more activist. The most commonly heard

:40:21.:40:27.

words over the last couple of weeks, "Haven't you heard, it's all

:40:28.:40:31.

changed". Or a four letter expletives! Thank you for joining

:40:32.:40:32.

us. Well, that's all we have time

:40:33.:40:35.

for tonight, but what David Cameron was heard whistling

:40:36.:40:37.

a tune under his breath that no one He was worried the door wouldn't be

:40:38.:40:41.

opened for him if staff didn't On that note, we leave you with some

:40:42.:40:47.

of the images of the Cameron premiership you might remember,

:40:48.:40:51.

and some he'll wish you'd forgotten. MUSIC: "I Know It's

:40:52.:40:55.

Over" - The Smiths. Taking a risk, having a punt,

:40:56.:41:00.

having a go, that pumps me up! So we will have a new Prime Minister

:41:01.:41:22.

in that building behind me A week is a long time in politics

:41:23.:42:01.

and the weather is pretty interesting as well. Sunshine and

:42:02.:42:04.

showers but no two days the same.

:42:05.:42:07.

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