Reshuffle fever in Westminster, will new faces mean new policies and what will happen to the sacked ministers? Plus the world reacts to Boris Johnson as foreign secretary.
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A new-look government, a new-look Whitehall,
a new message but many familiar faces, the same money troubles
Should we expect a decisive, radical, reforming government,
or one that's going to get stuck with Brexit?
Our priority will be to send out a very strong and clear message that
Britain will remain a very attractive place to invest,
to create jobs, to do business, and we will take whatever steps
we need to take to make sure that remains the case.
But at the French embassy tonight, the Foreign Secretary
was already experiencing life on the outside.
We'll look at what to expect from the new administration.
And what did Theresa May say to George Osborne as she let him go?
Our political editor has found out and it wasn't pretty.
And refugees' experiences told on BBC2.
So, has Europe managed to sort out its response?
For six years, Theresa May has been quietly sitting in the Cabinet.
She's avoided the plotting, mostly, and has presumably been
making private judgements about all her colleagues
Today, she's had the chance to form a government
of her own and her colleagues at last find out what she's been
Bad news for some, as they were dropped.
Good news for others, with fresh faces given a big
It nets out as a hugely different government.
We've become used to remarkably few personnel changes
over the last six years, so this is a shock to
And a bigger change than last year, when the coalition ended and the Lib
Here's our political editor Nick Watt.
Before we go into what it all means, just this extraordinary story
tonight that you have managed to get hold of about Theresa May and George
Osborne? Reds Downing Street were pretty clear yesterday that Rita Mae
had sacked George Osborne, he didn't resign and I've learned to like they
had a very frosty meaning -- meeting at Downing Street yesterday in which
trees may make pointed remarks to the outgoing Chancellor. She said he
had overpromised and under delivered and took issue with his surplus
target and said that has given them a nightmare, he could never deliver
it and perhaps it was a bit of a stunt as people said, to catch the
Labour Party. I understand to reason may was repeating what she had said
in a speech in Birmingham the day before where she had rear --
reiterated her pledge to been the surplus target and she said George
Osborne had not done enough to challenge deep economic reform and
she was going to do it. The reverberations from the sackings and
appointments are rebounding around Westminster still. We thought we
would take a look at how the new Prime Minister has gone about
forming her government. Not since Harold Macmillan's night
of the Long knives in 1962 have we so much ministerial blood flow along
Downing Street. Theresa May has reordered an entire government as
she responds to the twin instructions from the electorate.
Tate Britain out of the EU and change the ways of the governing
elite. As you waded through the blood, it was clear that the new
Prime Minister had three aims in mind. Number one, deliver Brexit
with a Nixon in China approach. Theresa May's appointment of a trio
of Brexiteer is to take charge of Britain's exit from the EU fulfils
her pledge to ensure the referendum winners run this process. Allies who
say that only arch Eurosceptics have a hope of success are drawing
parallels with the way in week the hardline Richard Nixon delivered a
breakthrough in US relations with China. The Prime Minister might also
be trying to create some space should the negotiations turn out to
be slightly more talent in. What the Prime Minister has done is said,
"OK, you have done the heavy lifting intellectually about this. Deliver
it for me in government". I think that because they are trusted,
deeply trusted by all Conservatives, both in parliament and in the
grassroots, to be true to their beliefs on that, that they are
actually in the best place to make the deals and perhaps the slight
compromises you have two, to deliver Brexit and deliver it for the
benefit of the British people. Number two, rewiring Whitehall. Not
since the era of Tony Blair, who loved to abolish and set up
government departments, have we seen such people Whitehall. For example,
the business, innovation and skills department is renamed, and its
headquarters houses some of the new bees. There is pain and delight in
equal measure as the very un-Thatcherite industrial strategy
makes a return and climate change is nowhere to be seen on the nameplate.
Number three, social reform in the spirit of Joe Chamberlain. In her
first statement outside number ten, the new Prime Minister delivered an
unmistakable message of change by making clear that she would tackle
burning injustices. This thinking owes much to her new Joint Chiefs of
Staff, Nick Timothy, who is the biographer of the great social
reformer, Joseph Chamberlain. Being from Stratford-upon-Avon, close to
Birmingham, with Joseph Chamberlain and his sons as well, I think that
is something of a role model to us all, the ability to devolve power
but also, to champion our cities and be a real champion for those on
National Living Wage, those hard-working families that I think
she keeps going back to. Theresa May will finalise her new government
over the coming days as she turns to the lower ministerial ranks. The
blood-letting is not yet over. Nick Watt, there.
While we've all been banging on about Europe
for the last six months, ordinary life has rumbled
on, but quite a number of domestic problems have been
The Theresa in-tray is piled high with things to be resolved.
Some prime ministers have the option of staying vague and drifting
Theresa May won't have that luxury. Her decisions will be made in high
definition. Theresa May's permission may well be remembered for good or
ill by how well the Brexit negotiations go. But on domestic
policy, she's not inheriting a blank piece of paper.
There are three important areas I would pick out and keep an eye on
Secondly, the roll-out of universal credit.
Secondly, the roll-out Thirdly, the NHS.
This economist explains how these issues have been
-- made more, get it by the effects of the vote on Brexit. The exchange
rate has fallen and the cost of importing things is going to be
higher. That will push up on inflation.
It will leave less money spare for people to spend
The second thing that's going to happen is GDP
growth is likely to slow and hiring decisions
potentially wage growth will be a little slower too.
Both of these things are actually quite bad for
the public finances because we need people to spend so that we can tax
This is a graph showing what markets expected
coming years before the Brexit vote, and this is after.
You can see more than a few years out that they are
look at the very left of the graph.
Inflation is now expected to be sharply higher.
This expert from a think tank on living standards
explains how this might be a problem for Damian Green, the new Work and
We've got wages growing at a pretty modest rate
We've also got a benefit freeze, which means benefits aren't going
anywhere, it's only working-age benefits over the next few years.
So relatively modest levels of inflation mean that for both
workers and those relying on benefits, in
work and out of work, their living standards
are likely to start to
flat-line again, or even maybe fall over the next few years.
One important issue that will affect this is the roll-out of the troubled
It was intended by this point to be helping 6 million people.
This plan to reform a range of working-age
Even before Brexit came along the Government was facing a
On the one hand, if it was able to implement
meant actually many working-age households would be losing out
We are about to start entering the territory
of postcode lottery, where
identical families in different parts of the country would have
different outcomes depending on whether they are on the old system
But if it doesn't work, then that is a hit to
the Treasury, because by moving from the old system
Treasury stands to save somewhere in the region of ?4 billion or so.
This analyst from the Nuffield Trust, a
health think tank, exclusively reveals to Newsnight her maths
suggest trouble ahead for Jeremy Hunt, who
NHS hospitals are really under a lot of pressure at the moment.
We know they are already missing a lot of their targets
And at the same time they have an underlying financial
That means it's costing them ?3.5 billion more to
treat the patients that they have coming in than they are actually
Look at emergency departments, where 95% of
attendances should be dealt with in four hours.
We met that target for bits of 2014, we flirted with it in
2015, but in 2016 we've been miles away.
So how big a task is it for the NHS to get back into budget for 2020?
First of all, hospitals will need to cut their costs every year by 3%.
Over recent years they've only managed to cut them by 2%
and the government's own efficiency review has found that 2% really
So hospitals are going to have to exceed that for the next three
In addition to that we are going to need to see a slowing in the rate
In recent years, the NHS does 3% more work a year.
We think we are going to need to see that slow down to around 2%.
There are schemes that cut NHS demand relatively painlessly,
for example, by putting doctors inside care homes.
That could mean some people get treated before their minor
But there are also other ways of cutting NHS
For example, we could just stop keeping up with some
All of those things would suppress demand
But would an electorate that has just voted, it thinks, for more
The problem is that it's the painful stuff that's certain to save money
short-term, and the hospital overshoot could reach
Brexit is not Theresa May's only problem.
A little memo therefore the new Prime Minister.
Before we digest all that, Chris is here with one small legacy
a letter from the PM's office released on the web.
It's all about the severance pay of special advisors.
It's a bit different to everything we have been talking about but
explain. So there's a process in white or called ministerial
direction. When civil servants think they are being asked to do something
they shouldn't be doing, for value for money grounds come usually, they
say to a minister, "We will do this but you have to put in writing you
have asked us to do it". David Cameron has asked the Cabinet Office
to pay extra severance pay to his own special advisers because he
feels sorry they have lost their jobs in a sudden shock over the last
month. So we don't know how this is going to be debated but the cost is
going to be, special advisers, who have got around ?750,000 in total...
About ten of them. Now they are going to get about ?1 million. It is
distributed unevenly, five figure sums for a Sahm, and four figures
for others, months of plays the issue. So they get a few months and
he wants them to get some extra months because it's been a rush?
Exactly and if you are as it servant who has perhaps the these civil
service redundancy scheme strewn down all been made redundant and
watched the Prime Minister saying, "That's very unfair, what these poor
chaps I know are getting", and intervening personally, this might
rankle a little. Thank you for joining us.
So, that's the old government's last gesture.
With me now are Jill Rutter from the Institute for Government,
Philippa Stroud, a former Conservative adviser who now sits
in the House of Lords, and Phil Collins who writes
So much to talk about them if you are not too depressed by listening
to Chris' previous peace. On white or, how big a radical reform of
white or have we seen? We are just adjusting it now. Two things have
been. Theresa May by Brexit. One issue, we said she would have a
secretary of state for Brexit and she's created that, seem to have
gone for the option of creating a new Brexit ministry. If I'd been
Cabinet Secretary, I'm not sure I would have advised that straightaway
but she's gone for that. She is beefing up international trade with
this new department with Liam Fox but we always had a rather odd thing
which was a non-ministerial apartment doing trade which had a
minister. That may be a growth of that with some people moving into
that. She has done some things she did not have to do. She has created
this new business, energy and industrial strategy department and
in doing so, abolished the EC, which was created by Gordon Brown for Ed
Miliband in 2008 and also moved skills which is one of the footballs
of Whitehall back to education and given it universities, too. Does
this distract people? Is it now they are going to spend six months
thinking about where their desk is rather than getting or can it be
done very smoothly? The departments affected will be distracted. It
takes some time to get going when you do things. You have got all
those bread-and-butter issues like where you are going to base people,
what you are going to pay them, things like that to sort out.
Generally our advice has been to think very carefully before you do
machinery of government changes and generally don't do them. There's
usually a better option. David Cameron took that advice, that was
one of the great things about his administration. You only want to do
it if you think there a long-term benefit.
Brexit potentially demands that. Phil Collins, how impressed are you
buy the ability of the new team to carry through Theresa May's
objectives? Well, on the threshold of Downing
Street Theresa May gave what I thought was a really impressive
speech, full of huge ambitions for improving the life chances of the
least well off, and that's incredibly difficult to do. Let's
pretend you weren't having to extricate Great Britain from the
European Union at the same time, the ambitions she set out are immense
and I worry about the candidates into microwaves forced up 22 people
in the Cabinet, slight second and third 11 feel about it, the other
thing linked to that is if you take out George Osborne, for good or ill,
he did some big things, pension liberalisation, Northern Powerhouse
and Living Wage Commission Michael Gove on education and in the early
days justice on prisons, they have energy and passion for reform and I
wonder if that energy will exist in the existing cabinet. Are you
worried about that, Philippa? I think Michael is a huge loss to the
government, personally. I would love to have seen him have a place. But
actually, I really like what she has done with the Department for
Education. Adding in universities, but also skills and apprenticeships,
and giving it to someone like Justine Greening, who is deeply
committed to social mobility for sub I've spoken to Justine over this one
numerous times. Do you think she's going to be strong? She needs to be
tough and be nice to the ones she needs to be nice to. She won't beat
up people but she is focused. Social mode is what she wants to do. It's
what she has actually wanted to do for the last few years. She's come
into this department really well thought through, and she has
literally, from cradle all the way up through university and onto the
skills agenda and the apprenticeship agenda, that is a social reformer's
dream package in all honesty. We wanted skills agenda at the DWP to
go with employment, but for her to have it there as well is fantastic.
All of that is good and I don't doubt the fine intentions, but it's
incredible hard to do. It's very hard to do in a time of plenty,
during the Blair government it was found difficult to make progress on
this and there was plenty of money sloshing around. When you have very
little money it's even more difficult. It's going to be very
hard, they are hostages to fortune in Theresa May's speech they are
huge. And you have a question of the European Union. I think she's been
quite clever on that. She said... Can I put you over there? I will put
you over there. Do you think a government can do more than one
thing at once? This is quite a big thing, leaving the European Union.
Can it deliver this whole reform agenda, industrial strategy,
quality, corporate governance, all of that and leave the European
Union? Or can a government only chew gum or walk, it can't do both at the
same time? Governments do lots of things, there is business as usual
as well as reform. The key restraint is the political capital the Prime
Minister has to deploy. When the question is, how much will she have
to deploy sorting out Europe, lots of this will be done ahead of a
mid-level, final deals are only done a head of government level. She has
somebody to do the heavy lifting. David Davis will do the heavy
lifting, whether he does it in the way she wants it done is critical,
whether -- that will be critical whether they bash heads together. As
she put the people in who she knows shares her agenda so she doesn't
have to do so much? I think that is where you see the bandwidth now. Are
you worried you won't get it all done? There is just a lot of stuff.
One moment, the comment about No 10 and big hitters, that's important.
One of the things she has done is cleared out of No 10 of all of its
special advisers, hence Chris's comments about special advisers.
Always a terrible mistake to do that, all of that memory and people
who know what you are doing on. It gives her the chance to bring in
people who are aligned with her agenda and genuinely want to do some
of the reform. They will take a year to learn. You asked me if I'm
worried, that I'm pleased about Justine and about Sajid Javid going
on at ACOG, really focused on building houses. That is one of the
things we absolutely need I think Liz Truss's appointment at Min of
Justice is important too. Michael was focused on the academisation of
prisons and you have somebody who has a strong education background.
If she chooses to she could come in and improve things. -- DCLG. If you
want to do lots of things on the domestic and social agenda isn't the
rule that you need money? The one thing she will not have, surely, is
oodles of money. They haven't got loads of money but that's not to say
you can't do things. Lots of prison reforms don't need lots of money so
if Liz Truss picks up the bat on from Michael Gove, which she might,
she is a reformer herself, there are things that can be done and there
are plans. There is lots on welfare that can save money if you look at
it. You cannot necessarily use money as an excuse because you haven't got
any. But it worries me. I think leaving the European Union is
several things at once, that's not just one thing, that is lots of
things. If the Government can do that in the next few years before
the election and nothing else it will already have been quite
successful. So I'm not sure it can even manage that, let alone these
other things. It partly depends on her style of government as well,
which we don't know yet. David Cameron was always very good at
almost being a chairman and letting his Secretary of State get on. She
is a good manager, people say. If she can achieve the chairmanship
role and work with her secretaries of state, she has the ability to
implement social reform. One of the things she doesn't have so many of
his civil servants, some people think that helps things move more
smoothly but Brexit will absorb a lot of the civil service's time and
effort, just mapping where Europe matters to us. We've been there for
40 years, it's a really big exercise. Quite a lot of these other
reforms require civil servants to do them. If the brightest and the best
are being creamed into the Brexit ministry it's going to reduce the
capacity of quite a lot of other places. It will be interesting to
see whether she goes slow on the pace of cuts to the civil service.
Thank you very much indeed, let's hope she is not watching and getting
depressed about the job she has got! Brexit Britain has certainly been
enjoying 15 minutes of fame, the world looking upon us
with a variety of reactions. Here's a little clip of the news
of his Cabinet appointment being given to a US State Department
spokesman last night. He is paid to diplomatically
suppress any inappropriate reflex. And his replacement
as Foreign Secretary has just been For our European colleagues,
the British situation raises all sorts of questions -
not always very welcome ones. And now they find themselves working
with a Foreign Secretary who has, over the years, treated
the EU with derision. A little earlier, I spoke
to the Lithuanian foreign What does he think of
Boris Johnson's past indiscretions, and will they make it difficult
to take him or British Frankly it depends how he will
present this stuff, or what has efforts to remedy what was
done. The German Foreign Minister,
Frank-Walter Steinmeier, called some of the things he said in the
referendum campaign irresponsible And it is true that Boris Johnson
has been a critic of Does that make it harder to work
with him, do you think? Many things I disagree
with what he said, But this was the campaign
in the UK and now So now he has to prove
everything that was said by him, by all of those Brexit leaders,
this is just his task. There has been one issue
which has been the There are many Lithuanians,
as you know, living in the UK. And uncertainty over
their status for How quickly do you think
we can sort that one out? I don't think days or weeks,
probably not. But this is a very
important part of the It's not only with regard
to Lithuanians, or Poles or other EU citizens
who live in the UK. But also, let me
mention UK citizens who So we have to negotiate
decently, and also smoothly, in order to make sure
that they should feel more certain. Just on Article 50, I wondered
whether you would be happy to talk to the British before
Article 50 is invoked. I know the official position is that
talks start when we talks before that, do you
think? Frankly, we need to know
what the UK wants to do. Because, to depart
the European Union there could be various options, frankly speaking,
and different models. And we need to know
what we would like to have as a Single Market, mobility
freedoms, other aspects, it could be the Norwegian
model, the Swiss model, So, first of all we
have to know what we are going to negotiate and then
we will see the positions. Obviously Britain leaving
is going to leave a big hole We put in 10 billion
euros or more into the European budget net
of what we take out. I just wonder whether you have
started thinking about what is going to fill that hole that that
leaves the European Union. This hole will not be
filled, definitely. Because the UK is leaving,
and this is also a small hole in our hearts, frankly speaking,
because we need the UK and we feel And that means that we really have
to define the future, given the interests first of all,
and I believe, I'm convinced as close as possible ties with EU,
which has to do with trade, services So it is too early to say
what kind of hole in the budget will be,
because it depends I'm hearing your
message very clearly. Linas Linkevicius, thank you very
much for talking to us. Thanks.
Thanks. Before we move on and we are getting
news of a serious event in France, it is Bastille day there, there is
an incident in Nice and it looks serious, it seems that a truck has
gone into a crowd of people. Reuters are quoting the local prefect who
says 30 people are dead, social media video shows people running,
which you can see, in panic following the incident. A journalist
with the local Nice newspaper reported there was lots of blood and
lots of injured. We don't know exactly what it is, people talked
about it as an attack of some kind, we have social media pictures. Some
reports, and again all of this is very early days, some reports talked
of shots being fired by police. This is a tragic story coming from France
on Bastille Day, a holiday in France. We will try and bring you
more on that as we get it. In the meantime let's return to our
previous items. One change we will have
to acclimatise ourselves to is that we'll be seeing less of George
Osborne. Six years in the Treasury,
and a turbulent six years at that. We heard earlier about the difficult
conversation he had with Theresa May when she sacked him.
David Grossman looks back at his tenure.
So the hi-vis Chancellor fades, for now at least,
from the political scene, hanging up his fluorescent
But we can at least see what Mr Osborne has
built and compare it to the plans he submitted
The primary task that George Osborne set for himself was eliminating
Here was the planned reduction from his first budget.
But this is what he actually achieved, still a long way to go.
Indeed, after the Brexit referendum, both Mr Osborne
and the soon-to-be-new Prime Minister abandoned
The reason for the failure to get the deficit down as much as he hoped
isn't because he tried to implement tax rises, or benefit cuts,
or public service cuts and they didn't happen.
The measures he announced did happen.
It's because the economy didn't grow as strongly as he thought
and that meant that tax revenues kept disappointing.
But, and it's a big but, Mr Osborne gets credit from many
economists for absorbing the political embarrassment
of repeatedly missing his targets rather than reducing government
spending even further to try to meet them.
I think the biggest criticism to me on the macro side is that
all the adjustment in the fiscal position was on spending.
He slashed spending dramatically and I think that's one
of the reasons we see so many unhappy people.
Local government spending, for example, has really
And that's a very controversial Chancellor.
And that's a very controversial judgement.
George Osborne's second objective was under the extremely broad
For a start, this meant moving the country away from a reliance
on the financial sector that left us so exposed after the crash,
Obviously one of the big tenets was this march of the makers
and to have more rebalancing towards manufacturing.
And I think actually the makers would like to see a bit more spring
in their step than they have at the moment.
I think they still see quite a lot of challenges ahead.
But I think where you can see some things the Chancellor did do
to help manufacturing was a real focus on research
Rebalancing the economy also meant reducing the ratio of household debt
But this proved impossible in an era of ultra-low interest rates
which discouraged saving and encouraged borrowing.
Households are choosing to spend a lot relative to their incomes,
so the household saving ratio is at a very low level
And the amount of borrowing, how we finance this borrowing, well,
the amount of borrowing we do from overseas is at extremely high
So we are a country in which the household sector
is borrowing a lot of money, the Government is still borrowing
a lot, not as much as it did, and that borrowing is being financed
The third objective we could measure Mr Osborne against is his ambition
to spread growth beyond London and the south-east of England.
As a Cheshire MP, the Chancellor championed the so-called
This was partly about infrastructure but partly about political
I think it has but I think there's a lot more to be done.
I think what he did was highlight some of the issues and to start
in train some of the devolution of powers and give more power
But I think what people would say is we need to see more connections
between Sheffield, Manchester, Leeds, some of our northern cities
but also in the Midlands, between Nottingham and Leicester.
I think focusing on the transport infrastructure between some
of the UK's bigger cities undoubtedly needs to be the focus
We've got a dual economy, London and the south-east,
a few other metropolitan areas, are dominant.
Much of the country isn't really doing very well and again, that has
In a strange ironical way, maybe Brexit will do that
Indeed, like his friend David Cameron, perhaps Mr Osborne's
entire time in office will come to be defined
If Brexit does result in economic calamity, as he warned, well,
Mr Osborne will get blamed for letting it happen.
If on the other hand, Brexit is a roaring success,
he will get none of the credit, having argued
David Grossman die on George Osborne. We can't bring you more on
that ghastly episode in Nice. -- David Grossman there. They're ready
to be quite a few dead when a lorry went into a Bastille Day festivity
in the city of Nice. We will try to bring you more at the end of the
programme. You might have seen
Exodus on BBC2 this week. Three nights, three one-hour
programmes, with real-life testimony of refugees, telling the stories
of their journeys into Europe. I survived Isis, I survived
beheadings, I survived Assad. I was almost killed
for a stupid idea Well, the programmes
aroused quite a reaction. They are still on the
iPlayer, of course. There have been times when Europe
can collectively excuse its messy response to the refugee
and migrant crisis by saying were unexpected and unmanageable
in the short term. That excuse obviously wears thin
as time passes. Joining me now in the studio
is former International Development And from Brussels, the Director of
Migration Policy Institute Europe, We have not spoken about this for
very long because we've been in the middle of a referendum campaign but
how have things changed in the last six months, particularly from the
journeys that were documented in that series? I think what you saw in
the TV programme was fairly harrowing but fluid generally --
Jenny, where people were finding their passage from Turkey, through
degrees and then upwards through the Western Balkans into various
locations in Europe. The key change that has occurred in the European
Union, one of the reasons why the refugee crisis has not been so much
in headlines in the last three months is the instigation of a deal
with Turkey to try to stem the flow from Turkey degrees and then the
closure of the borders across the Western Balkans route. What we see
now is a far more sedentary process. Those people who had already made it
to Greece but have not been able to move further through across Europe
are now kept in sometimes poor reception conditions in Greece
itself. A number of people who have arrived from Turkey and managed to
make it across, despite the deal over the last three or four months,
hiding themselves on the islands and in substantially different
conditions than the islands were used to dealing with before March
this year. Things have slowed down. And people are sort of stock. Very
briefly in terms of the numbers leaving, the places from where most
came, has that number fallen dramatically? So the numbers
arriving on the Greek islands have fallen dramatically and that is a
combination of the message that the borders are closed now to Europe,
that you will not move on from Greece but also, the proactive
actions of the Turkish coast guard and the Turkish government itself,
preventing departures degrees. On that sort of singular benchmark of
the EU- Turkey deal, it has been successful in reducing numbers but
that does not necessarily reduce the numbers of people who have been
displaced, whether from Syria, Iraq or other countries. It does not
resolve the underlying problems of a large number of people displaced in
the region of Syria. Andrew Mitchell, it is months now since the
peak of the migrant and refugee crisis. As Europe improved its
performance, quite apart from blocking people out, the conditions
in which they are in, has that been satisfactorily resolved? It is a
massive failure on almost every count. First, it is a failure to
look after the 4.5 - 5 million people displaced within Syria, where
we argued for safe havens. That was the right policy and should have
been implemented. We have failed from Europe to look after
effectively the huge number of people who have gone into Lebanon on
and Jordan and indeed, into Turkey, where the camps and accommodation is
extremely good. We have failed them and failed to educate their
children. We have failed to give them hope because of course, all
these migrants and refugees, they don't want to recreate Syria in
Europe. They want to go back to the areas from which they have been
driven off under gunfire and then moving further afield, when you get
to Europe, people who do put themselves into the hands of the
modern-day equivalent of the slave trader, in a leaky boat, in the hope
of reaching a more prosperous sure, they should be properly looked after
when they arrive on the European coastline, properly processed. But
the aim of the policy should not be to bring them into Europe. It should
be to get them back when you have dealt with the crisis. Justin Pugh
Manitou into, you would have thought Europe could muster the money to
build decent camps and have them properly fed and reasonably sanitary
conditions. Is that what they have in Greece at the moment? Well, it's
better but still reliant on doctors going out from Britain, for example.
The European Union has not got its act together properly. But you are
right in what you say, there should have been European money, UN money,
International money to make sure that these people were kept safe,
got medicine, got properly fed and sheltered and in none of those three
areas which I have sketched out, the areas through which they go, has
that happened. Elisabeth, of course, there have been two different
approaches, one is helping the ball once they arrived and the other is
helping Beadle out there which has been very much the British garden
at's approach. They said they would rather not encourage people to come
to Europe but help them near the camps in Lebanon on Paul Jordan. How
is that working out? -- Lebanon or Jordan. The European picture may not
be great but how is that working out? I think the ambition is
admirable in terms of thinking about how to do protection in regional
origin, in part because some of the most vulnerable people don't have
the opportunity to move or undertake, or are capable of
undertaking these dangerous journeys. One of the big challenges,
however, is whether you are just doing support in the short term,
food, shelter, making sure people are staying alive, against trying to
create new opportunities for people in the regional origin which is a
lot harder. That is exacerbated by the fact that there is a funding
shortfall, despite the investments made by the UK Government and other
governments, there is a persistent funding shortfall into the multiple
billions in nature. That means that when people have become refugees,
they tend to be refugees for long periods of time and they don't find
themselves by doing opportunities in the region of origin because there
is no support beyond perhaps even food and shelter and not even in
some cases. So we have to ask the question, if that is the policy, how
much money will we have two invest to achieve that? Alongside two other
issues... I'm going to have to stop you because we have a breaking story
and I have to go to it. Thank you for joining us. The situation in
Nice is ongoing. This is what the witness, Colin, just told the BBC
News Channel. I'm in the port in Nice. We were basically sitting just
in front of the old town in Nice and saw several hundred people running
towards us, looking panic stricken. We tried to ask a few of them what
the hell was going on, and finally got one who said, "You need to go,
the police have told us to run". So we thought, OK, we all move did the
same direction as the crowds. -- moved in the same direction. At the
base of the hill where the castle is in Nice, the police came running and
said, "Run now". It is clearly a very bad situation in Nice. You can
get more on the BBC News Channel. That is all we have time for the
night. We will bring you more on that story tomorrow, and you can
follow developments online as well. Until tomorrow, good night.
A lot of dry weather through this weekend and there will be some
complications. The complications on Friday will be courtesy of this