28/07/2016 Newsnight


Kirsty Wark with reports on the nuclear plant at Hinkley Point, which is nearing approval, Germany's response to its recent terror attack, and Hillary Clinton's upcoming speech.

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A big, shiny deal for a new nuclear power station, Hinkley C,


has just been signed after years of delay.


-- not quite yet. EDF has signed but now the Government says it needs to


think it over. This delay seems to have come as a surprise to one EDF.


I will be asking a local MP whether it will ever be switched on.


TRANSLATION: They want to damage our way of life,


our openness and, yes, our readiness to take


Angela Merkel stands firm on Germany's refugee policy


after the spate of terrorist attacks but promises more security measures.


There has never been a man or a woman, not me, not Bill,


nobody more qualified than Hillary Clinton


to serve as President of the United States of America.


After the monumental build-up, Hillary Clinton will wow the room.


But what does she have to do to wow a very divided country?


We'll be joined by two women, who have watched her every step


and misstep, Tina Brown and Jill Abrahamson.


Finally, after years of delay, this evening, EDF agreed the deal on


Hinkley Point C. Now there is a glitch. Theresa May's new government


wants some thinking time. The parties have been postponed and


media interviews cancelled. What is the alternative? There is no other


scheme on the table. This one has been complex and fraught enough.


Now, the consortium of EDF and a Chinese company are ready to go.


There have been worries over the EDF debt and the deal involves a 35 year


contract to pay EDF ?92 50 for each megawatt hour of energy it


generates, more than double the present cost. Helen Thomas is with


us. There was commitment to nuclear but the Government wants to consider


carefully all the component parts of this project. The decision is now


pushed back to the early autumn. The official line is this is not a


delay, a rethink. This is a new Prime Minister, the new Secretary of


State wanting to make sure they are on top of all the details. This was


not expected. What we are being told is this is Theresa May, the new


Prime Minister, stamping her authority on these really big,


confiscated decisions. It is worth saying there is some suggestion she


discussed this with President Francois Hollande in Paris but it


did seem to come as a surprise to EDF this evening. They had a full


day of media interviews and so on plant. That is all off. -- planned.


The board of French utility EDF has approved building and ?18 billion


new nuclear power station at Hinkley Point in Somerset.


French unease over the project continues with one board


member resigned today ahead of the vote.


The Government late tonight seemed to put the brakes on the project.


It will make a decision in the autumn.


Hinkley could be the first nuclear power station built in the UK


Would it supercharge the UK's energy outlook,


or are the lights of the country's energy policy flickering?


The UK needs new generating capacity to replace ageing coal and nuclear


Then there is increased electricity demand.


The plan is this comes from a mix of energy sources,


including renewables and new nuclear power plants.


And the requirement is about 95 gigawatts of new capacity.


Remember, the UK Government wants three things from its energy policy.


It wants security of supply from a range


It wants low or zero carbon options to help meet climate change goals.


After all, it is consumers that ultimately end up bearing the cost


In theory, Hinkley does help meet some of those goals.


It is big, capable of supplying about 7% of the UK's electricity,


It is also low carbon and nuclear power is always on the 24 hours


It should even create thousands of jobs over the ten years


But the first Hinkley headache is the cost.


Sure, EDF pays for its construction and takes the risk that it runs late


But, their incentive is a guaranteed price of ?92.50 per megawatt hour


for the electricity produced over the 35 year life of the plant.


That is way above current wholesale electricity prices,


dragged down by low fossil fuel prices, making up the difference


was estimated to cost about 6.1 billion when the contract


was signed back in October 2013, according to the


Earlier this year, it put the cost of those top


Well, it will be the most expensive power station that has ever been


The power that future consumers will pay for will be a very high price.


What we do know, if Hinkley was operating today,


it would be producing power, round about two and a half times


the wholesale price, which means the consumers will be


paying in a subsidy of about ?1.5 billion a year.


That does seem a very high price, even taking into account


the benefits you get full security of supply


The second worry is more fundamental. Will it work? The type


of reactor EDF plans for Hinkley is proving the industry conjugated to


build. The ones in France and Finland are running leers -- years


late and billions over budget. Maybe EDF has learned valuable lessons.


The Government boss Max out it for building several more nuclear plants


after Hinkley means the UK would reap all the benefits. -- the


Government's wanting to build several more nuclear plants. There


is a bizarre strategy of allowing several different reactor types to


be built at the same time we could find ourselves in a few years' time


with four different reactor types being built by five different


manufacturers. Even if Hinkley is finishing ten years' time, will it


be the type of power, the type of technology we actually need? The


supposed advantage of Hinkley as it provides a of power all the time.


Actually that is not what the UK wants anymore. It needs flexible


generating capacity that goes up and down to complement varying amounts


of wind, solar and hydro coming onto the electricity. Hinkley is


incredibly unresponsive. You cannot adjust its output. Renewable energy


currently cannot easily combined renewable energy and Hinkley Point.


Better energy storage could help smooth out the unpredictable peaks


and troughs of power supply. In an interconnected world, there is more


ability to adjust this down when it is tight. Hinkley was meant to like


the way to a new, modern energy system. The risk is the UK ends up


with an expensive and outdated piece of kit.


I'm joined now from Hinkley by its constituency MP,


Ian Liddell-Grainger, who has been involved in these


negotiations for the last nine-and-a-half years.


And also from our Bristol studio by the Green Party's south west


MEP, Molly Scott-Cato, a patron of the Stop


good evening to both of you. When did you find out there was going to


be a delay? I was actually here on site at Hinkley C and we were


discussing about the various parts to the deal with the team here. We


got a note saying the Prime Minister wanted to have a look at this and go


through it in her own way. That must have been a bit of a shock for you.


I probably should have guessed. Theresa May has her own mindful that


she has been a very successful Home Secretary. She checks everything. --


her own mind that she wants to make sure this is right. It is three


countries. An enormous deal for the United Kingdom, France and China.


She is checking it, like the Prime Minister should. Very much sticking


to the party line that she has been a Home Secretary for a long time in


the Government, so she knew it was coming. -- the party line. This is a


90,000 page deal. I had done four prime ministers and secretaries of


state. Amber Road is now the Home Secretary. Obviously, Andrea Leadsom


is also one of her secretaries of State. She has seen it going across.


Until you get into the complexities of the deal at this, you do not see


the whole picture. That is what this lady is doing. This presumably was a


surprise to you as well. For me, it was a pleasant surprise. It shows we


have had weak governments over the past six years and this deal has not


been scrutinised properly. It seems the Prime Minister is getting cold


feet and I hope she scrutinises the deal carefully. I hope if she does


that she will see the price is ridiculously high and not the type


of deal we need for the 21st-century. For all those reasons,


I think she will be changing her mind about this in the autumn. If


she does change her mind about it, chances are she will not necessarily


go for renewables or she may go for another kind of nuclear deal.


Renewables by far the most advanced technology we can bring on that


onstream quickly. They were not bring the amount of consistent


energy needed to make up the 7% desperate they needed in the next


ten years. Neither will Hinkley. We will not get any electricity from


Hinkley. Even if the reactor works by 2027. The only technologies we


have that work are renewables. We need to seriously invest in those


bring them on stream. That will create far more jobs, about 120,000


jobs according to a report I commissioned, compared with 500 at


Hinkley thought that it is better for the economy and better for jobs.


It is safer and cleaner as a way of producing electricity. Is the


Government in on this or is there any room for manoeuvre question what


you have said that Theresa May wants to look over it. What if she wants


to renegotiate the price at once and other nuclear deal, wants to bring


another country in? I do not think that is what she's doing. I have


just spoken to Greg Clark. She is the person she is. Greg Clark has


briefed her. I am getting in touch with her PPS tomorrow to ask for a


meeting so I can go through everything. That is not what she is


doing and it is blatantly obvious. She is wanting to make sure it is


right. If she is going to do this thoroughly, and make sure it is


right, you cannot be 100% sure it will go ahead as is because you are


not suggesting for one minute she might make changes. I wonder what


Greg Clark actually said to you. He said the Prime Minister will look at


it and is aware of the situation. She discussed it with President


Francois Hollande a few days ago but she is one of the people who look at


everything that is across her desk. That is the way it should be. You


can say it is the party line but I would say it is a common-sense


approach. I applaud the Prime Minister. That is strong government


and not weak government. Just coming back to you on that, there are some


issues about UDF. In there are issues about this particular type of


nuclear technology. -- about EDF. Other plants are way behind and over


budget. Let's just say that renewables are not the possibility


you wish them to be. Is there another way forward, if it is going


to be low carbon energy? I cannot really say that. I know that


renewables can do the job. You are right to draw attention to the fact


there are problems with EDF. Now the politics is starting to unravel,


they are using the scheme as a way to recapitalise business. That may


break European competition rules. The whole deal may itself turn out


to be illegal. Also what we are seeing as we have not had a proper


energy policy, a strategic energy policy in this country for several


decades. Our planners are being left behind when they are reducing


demand. That is if we just try to match supply of energy with demand


for energy and also use energy storage a lot better. You heard in


the film but the problem with the Hinkley Point C project is that it


cannot actually turn on and off electricity. You heard the


representative from Switch saying it does not do the job that is needed


in ten years' time where there will be different flows of electricity.


There needs to be a more sophisticated form of nuclear


energy. I'm sorry, I didn't see the film


because I'm here live at Hinckley. I think you're suggesting we need to


change to a modular system. I don't think it's the case at all. What


we're talking about is raw energy, it'll produce enough energy for 7%


of homes in Britain. It's a big, powerful beast, that's what building


here and I think we should. I've got confidence, I've spent nine and I


think we should. I've got confidence, I've spent nine and a


half over half my time as an MP. I've got faith in it and I think we


should get on with it. Thank you both very much indeed for joining


us. The German Chancellor,


Angela Merkel, today insisted that there would be


no change in the country's willingness to take in refugees


after the recent terror attacks. She interrupted her summer holiday


to return to Berlin and announced new measures to improve security,


including deciphering web chatter But, despite the fact that the two


attacks in Bavaria were carried out by asylum seekers, who both


had claimed allegiance to IS, she was adamant that Germany


would stick to its principles Munich train station


was the birthplace of Europe threw up fences,


Germans welcomed refugees Now, this country is taking a hard


look at its open border policy after four attacks in the space


of a week, three of them carried out In the little Bavarian town


of Ansbach on Sunday, It wasn't the deadliest


of the attacks, but it was the one with the most chilling implications


for a country struggling not to give in to fear.


The bomber was trying to get through this archway here,


because on the other side There were two and a half


thousand people here. Witnesses say they saw him pacing up


and down here, In the end, he came over to this


terrace here, that's The attacker was the man on the left


in the red shirt. A Syrian who arrived in Germany two


years ago via Bulgaria. In 2013, he was interviewed


on Bulgarian TV talking He was due to be deported


from Germany back to Bulgaria. Before he blew himself up he pledged


allegiance to Islamic State. Neighbours said he was friendly


but quite isolated. Annette and Gabriela live


on the same street. They got to know Dalil quite well


through their voluntary In October he had an injured arm,


and he had an operation. And then I haven't seen him for many


weeks, and I asked, where is he? And he said, he's in his room,


he has a laptop now, and he doesn't come out


of his room that much any more. Did you get the impression


he was particularly religious? You say that very firmly,


why are you so sure? Because I know he didn't do Ramadan,


we talked about that... He was not a soldier


for IS, not at all. Nee, das ist eine


Ausrede. A year ago, an army of Annettes


and Gabrielas came together in an extraordinary


display of hospitality. But for these two, that


solidarity has been shattered. Personally, I just told my friend,


everybody needs to go back home. I'm not willing to go


out of my way and help, because I'm afraid that your


friendly, and then actually you turn Did that change for you on Sunday


was demand on Sunday. Just around the corner we met a man


who summed up how many people feel. Because there was this


Willkommenskultur, this welcoming. All of last week's attacks took


place in southern Germany. A mass shooting


in a shopping centre. A machete attack near a restaurant,


as well as Sunday's suicide bombing. More than a million refugees have


come to Germany since the beginning The majority of them


through Bavaria. Now, there is talk of


closing the Borders, Has it changed since


the attacks of the last week? We don't yet know the extent


of the impact of all of this on German public opinion,


but certainly the kind of language we're hearing today is very


different from what people were saying a year ago, last summer,


at the height of Willkommenskultur. Even before these attacks,


support for Angela Merkel's refugee policy was dwindling,


and now she is under intense political pressure


from her own coalition partners. The CSU, the centre-right party that


dominates politics in Bavaria, today said refugees who couldn't


prove their identity should be Angela Merkel said she would order


extra security measures, but on her refugee policy


she is holding firm. TRANSLATION: For me it's clear


we will stick to our principles. Our principle, which is article one


of the German constitution, that the dignity of human


beings is inviolable. And the principles mean we give


those who are politically persecuted asylum, and we give protection


to those fleeing war In accordance with the Geneva


Convention. In Ansbach, investigators are trying


to work out whether Mohammed Dalil was a member of Islamic State


from the beginning, or whether his pledge of allegiance


was a more recent development. The German authorities say Dalil


was suffering from mental illness. That he had tried and tried


to commit suicide, and that his psychological treatment


had been terminated. Juergen Sauer, a psychotherapist


who works with asylum seekers, says many are traumatised,


and that bureaucratic hurdles often mean they can't


get the help they need. We know all these people


who went to the hospital because they wanted to commit


suicide, they get for 1-2 weeks the support, and then they are sent


again into life without support. It might be really a relationship


between this lack of treatment In other words, there may


be others out there. Many are now asking


an uncomfortable question. Has the open border policy


made Germans vulnerable? In Ansbach, the local priest


was having dinner with his family when he heard the bomb go off just


outside his church. TRANSLATION: What happened


here in the past week, of course, it's doing


something to us. But if we split, if we turn


against each other, if we reject people who are in need,


then something really And yet the week's deadliest attack


had nothing to do with refugees. Munich's Muslim community held


prayers at the site of Friday's attack, when a German-


Iranian teenager with a history of depression opened fire


in a shopping centre. He killed ten people,


including himself. He shouted antiforeigner slogans,


and followed the Norwegian Had he been white, this


would have been interpreted as a far right attack,


but his heritage means the public gaze is directed back


to the issue of immigration. As the spectre of terrorism


casts its shadow deeper into Europe, these are fearful and confusing


times for Germany. Joining me now from Cologne


is German MP Norbert Spinrath, European Affairs spokesman


for the SPD Party, who are in coalition


with Angela Merkel's CDU/CSU. Good evening, Mr Spinrath. Good


evening from Cologne. A survey said the majority of the SPD believe


Angela Merkel's refugee policy had failed. I do not think that it


failed. The social Democratic party as a coalition partner of Chancellor


Merkel stays to her policy for refugees. I think there is no link


from the refugees to the attacks of the last days. We saw a mass murder,


mass shooting, without any link to terrorist attacks. We saw a refugee


who arrived two years ago in Germany. He was ill, he had


depressions, he was a mystic, I think that was not a normal


terrorist attack. -- he was brain sick. If two refugees are involved


in such attacks, when you have 2 million refugees in the last 18


months, it is not to be called a link between those. But we heard


from people in the film who were very welcoming originally feeling


they were going to pull back. One MP in Angela Merkel's own party has


said it's all very well to have the welcome culture, but we need the


farewell culture where failed asylum seekers are moved out of the country


more quickly, do you agree with that? I think we have two I -- have


to observe. We have to see that 99% of very normal people... They need


protection. They came to us to look for protection. They are happy they


can be here, far away from their homeland, where there is war, or


other things. I think we have to look very strong on those they are


failing in their role. And we have to take measures. We have a large


catalogue what we want to do in future. I wonder if you think what


has happened in Germany is quite different to what is happening in


France. Manuel Valls, the French Prime Minister, has said people will


have to learn to live with the terrorist threat, is it the same for


Germany? Yellow no, we don't want to live with the


terrorist threat, we want to make sure our people, our inhabitants,


that they are secure in Germany, and that the police Administration, the


police forces, and other administrations, we'll do anything


to give them security. I'm sorry to interrupt. I just wonder if you


think there is any validity in the calls some people are making in


Germany for a pause. Just to calm things down, rethink, sort out


security better, then restart allowing refugees. What do you think


about that possibility? I think most of the people... And I spoke to a


lot of them. Most of the people say there is a link. We have to deal


with it, operate a lot of measures. Do anything for my security, that


says the people. The people are not in that fear that a few politicians


want to mention. Mr Spinrath, thank you very much indeed.


In just over four hours, Chelsea Clinton will introduce her


mother at the Democrat National Convention in Philadelphia.


And all the speeches from Meryl Streep's opening scream,


to Michelle Obama's brilliantly crafted words, from Bill Clinton's


folksy homage, to Barack Obama's ringing endorsement have been


leading to this moment when Hillary Clinton takes the stage.


The problem is, is the whipsmart, dedicated, loyal, honest woman


they portray the one that the voters see.


The faithful are in the hall, but the sceptical threaten


I'm asking you to join me and reject cynicism and reject fear.


The situation is worse than it has ever been before!


Don't let anyone ever tell you this country


The other campaign looks based on fear. Of immigrants, terrorism and


economic decline. The 2016 presidential election feels


like a choice. For what was traditionally a nation


of optimists. Between two diametrically


opposed narratives Hope and fear are not


new things in American Back in 1968, Richard Nixon's


campaigns were set against a The Vietnam War, and


the assassinations of Martin Luther King


and Robert Kennedy, and widespread rioting


in Nixon was the fear


candidate and his strategy As we look at America, we see cities


enveloped in smoke and flames. We hear Simon is the night. We see


Americans dying on distant battlefields abroad.


Our convention occurs at the moment of crisis for


The attacks on our police and the terrorism of our


cities threaten our very way of life.


Donald Trump and his team have


been clear they see 1968 and present-day


They look to Nixon's campaign for inspiration.


If you look at 1968, the Democratic president was


I think Lyndon Johnson was in the 30s, maybe the 20s.


It is maybe slightly ticking up after having


American troop casualties were very high in 1968.


There is really nothing comparable to that now.


Don't get cynical because, look at yourselves...


The Nixon and Trump campaigns are a far cry from Ronald


Reagan's vision of America in the 1980s.


Wanted to be a shining city on a hill.


One obvious way of measuring hope or fear is consumer


One rule has held fast since the 1980s.


When consumer confidence is above 100


points, the incumbent party wins the popular vote.


2012, that rule was broken. President Obama won despite economic


gloom. Today, consumer confidence is at 97. The Democrats and Republicans


disagreeing on everything, it is possible that can -- consumer


confidence may be affected by Republicans thinking the cupboard is


bare simply because there is a democratic president. Republicans


thinking it is good because there is a Democratic president. It may not


mean what it used to put it is difficult to surf this stuff out. I


still believe in a place called Hope. It is worth remembering that


while Bill Clinton and Barrett Obama whether recent optimism candidates,


despite the rhetoric for many Americans right now, it is this man


who is offering hope, a chance to change their fortunes. That may be


difficult to resist. Joining me now are Jill Abramson


from the Guardian US and Tina Brown Good evening to both of you. First


of all, Tina Brown, hearing what Katie was saying. The problem is


Barack Obama talks about America being great. A lot of Americans do


not think America is a great for them and they do not feel to this --


optimistic. She has -- they have to counter the idea that Donald Trump


is the candidate of hope. There is as much psychic gloom, emotional


gloom, as there is economic gloom in large swathes of America who feel


left behind and left out of the big dream and left on the shelf, not


considered, talked down to by the elite. Those are the people who


Donald Trump is speaking to. What we have seen is the majority of


Americans have said America is not on the right track. More than half


of the Americans have said they want the candidate of change. Most of


them feel Hillary Clinton is not the candidate for change. They also feel


that Donald Trump is my changes may be for the worse. That leaves us in


a fascinating situation. Everyone wants change and Trump is the change


candidate. Everyone was trying to stress that Hillary Clinton was a


candidate for change. That was the theme of Bill Clinton's song. Like


Tina Brown, you know Hillary Clinton, at least partly from


close-up and partly from a distance. The problem is she does lead into


the idea that she is part of the elite and actually she has some very


tricky stuff which may well then resurfaced in the next four months.


How does she counter that? Well, you have heard some of the rhetoric


already during this week in the convention, where many speakers have


labelled her the change maker. She is trying to portray herself as an


agent of change, which you are right, is quite tricky, considering


she has been a Washington figure for generations. -- a generation. Going


back to when she was first lady in 1993. Just to come in on that, the


recent CNN poll, when it talks about trustworthiness and honesty, 68% say


Hillary Clinton is not honest and trustworthy versus 43% on Trump.


That is devastating at this stage of the game. It is devastating but I


have written that, based on supervising investigative stories


about her at the New York Times, as an investigative reporter myself,


looking into many of the Clinton controversies, I think she is


basically honest and trustworthy. Many of the charges against her at


the Republican convention, people chancing lock her up. It is


extremely exaggerated. Even though most recent e-mails, when you


actually examined the case against her, it came down to three e-mails


that did not have clarified headers. She is hurt by that. She is hurt by


that but she blames the media. She is very distrustful of the media and


hostile to them. Very defensive about the media. With good reason.


Hillary Clinton has been demonised for decades and decades and decades


by the GOP, the Republican attack machine, and these nonevent pseudo-


scandals in a sense which have bedevilled her. A leading Republican


person is said to me last night, Hillary Clinton has baggage but


Trump is crazy and you cannot fix crazy. Interesting that Michael


Bloomberg last night, himself a billionaire, the businessman


candidate, he really made the point that Trump is a reckless candidate.


As we go towards an election, it is about whether the petty and


trustworthiness of Hillary Clinton will be as dangerous in her mind as


a reckless, radical, off the wall candidate. You have to accept you


think that and a lot of people in the big cities think that. In great


swathes of America, they think that Trump is the best candidate. On


radio, you are talking about what she had to do in the campaign a new


city had to show her true self, to be stern and release her inner


pitch, as you called it. Is this really the night for that? I think


you have already seen a little bit of that in men talking about her.


They stressed the fighter in Hillary Clinton. It was almost as if Hillary


Clinton is supposed to be be solid, national-security candidate last


time, this time she is being positioned as the cuddly


grandmother. The truth of Hillary Clinton is she is a feisty, BS


women, who fights the change. I think it will be a lot more


appealing, particularly to the young, the Lenny women, who want to


see their women are fierce. -- millennial. It is more authentic


than anything we have heard before. What we have heard in a well crafted


speech written for Michelle Obama and Obama and Clinton were both


orators. She is not an oratory, so I wonder how she is going to deal with


this. She has said she is not a natural politician like her husband.


In terms of her feistiness and, to use her phrase, we saw that in the


primaries with the great speech in San Diego. You could see how she


relished attacking Donald Trump on important points. She is nearly


ready to go out there and really get in his face. She herself is kind of


delights in the fact she's so she clearly gets under his skin. Tina


Brown, in a way, what we are talking about is the night this convention


finishes, the big fight starts between the pair of them. Things are


going to get very dirty. In the swing states you are very have to


that is she will have to play a very careful game. Hillary loves a fight.


At her best is when her back is against the wall. During the last


primary campaign, and now, she is in the thick of it. She will be buoyed


up by all of these testimonies after being so battered. It must be very


exciting for her to hear these wonderful testimonies from so many,


incredibly strong figures in the Democratic party. She will put on


her fighting boots. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank


you. The front pages tomorrow, chaos over


nuclear plant. Ministers done energy industry with new Hinkley review. On


the left-hand side, rail fares to -- rail firms to cut fares on


investigation. Last orders for airport drinking. An intention to


make passengers pay for unruly behaviour. In the Guardian, Hinkley


Point nuclear plant gets the go-ahead. On the right-hand side, it


has a hug from last night at the convention as Hillary Clinton made a


surprise appearance before tonight's B.


Today Sky announced that they were launching a big push


We feel like we've seen this new fangled nonsense before.


I think this was the happiest day of my life.


Thursday was another warm day in the south. Fresh condition is now


pushing in from the north. This weather


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