28/07/2016 Newsnight

A big, shiny deal for a new nuclear power station, Hinkley C,

has just been signed after years of delay.

-- not quite yet. EDF has signed but now the Government says it needs to

think it over. This delay seems to have come as a surprise to one EDF.

I will be asking a local MP whether it will ever be switched on.

TRANSLATION: They want to damage our way of life,

our openness and, yes, our readiness to take

Angela Merkel stands firm on Germany's refugee policy

after the spate of terrorist attacks but promises more security measures.

There has never been a man or a woman, not me, not Bill,

nobody more qualified than Hillary Clinton

to serve as President of the United States of America.

After the monumental build-up, Hillary Clinton will wow the room.

But what does she have to do to wow a very divided country?

We'll be joined by two women, who have watched her every step

and misstep, Tina Brown and Jill Abrahamson.

Finally, after years of delay, this evening, EDF agreed the deal on

Hinkley Point C. Now there is a glitch. Theresa May's new government

wants some thinking time. The parties have been postponed and

media interviews cancelled. What is the alternative? There is no other

scheme on the table. This one has been complex and fraught enough.

Now, the consortium of EDF and a Chinese company are ready to go.

There have been worries over the EDF debt and the deal involves a 35 year

contract to pay EDF ?92 50 for each megawatt hour of energy it

generates, more than double the present cost. Helen Thomas is with

us. There was commitment to nuclear but the Government wants to consider

carefully all the component parts of this project. The decision is now

pushed back to the early autumn. The official line is this is not a

delay, a rethink. This is a new Prime Minister, the new Secretary of

State wanting to make sure they are on top of all the details. This was

not expected. What we are being told is this is Theresa May, the new

Prime Minister, stamping her authority on these really big,

confiscated decisions. It is worth saying there is some suggestion she

discussed this with President Francois Hollande in Paris but it

did seem to come as a surprise to EDF this evening. They had a full

day of media interviews and so on plant. That is all off. -- planned.

The board of French utility EDF has approved building and ?18 billion

new nuclear power station at Hinkley Point in Somerset.

French unease over the project continues with one board

member resigned today ahead of the vote.

The Government late tonight seemed to put the brakes on the project.

It will make a decision in the autumn.

Hinkley could be the first nuclear power station built in the UK

Would it supercharge the UK's energy outlook,

or are the lights of the country's energy policy flickering?

The UK needs new generating capacity to replace ageing coal and nuclear

Then there is increased electricity demand.

The plan is this comes from a mix of energy sources,

including renewables and new nuclear power plants.

And the requirement is about 95 gigawatts of new capacity.

Remember, the UK Government wants three things from its energy policy.

It wants security of supply from a range

It wants low or zero carbon options to help meet climate change goals.

After all, it is consumers that ultimately end up bearing the cost

In theory, Hinkley does help meet some of those goals.

It is big, capable of supplying about 7% of the UK's electricity,

It is also low carbon and nuclear power is always on the 24 hours

It should even create thousands of jobs over the ten years

But the first Hinkley headache is the cost.

Sure, EDF pays for its construction and takes the risk that it runs late

But, their incentive is a guaranteed price of ?92.50 per megawatt hour

for the electricity produced over the 35 year life of the plant.

That is way above current wholesale electricity prices,

dragged down by low fossil fuel prices, making up the difference

was estimated to cost about 6.1 billion when the contract

was signed back in October 2013, according to the

Earlier this year, it put the cost of those top

Well, it will be the most expensive power station that has ever been

The power that future consumers will pay for will be a very high price.

What we do know, if Hinkley was operating today,

it would be producing power, round about two and a half times

the wholesale price, which means the consumers will be

paying in a subsidy of about ?1.5 billion a year.

That does seem a very high price, even taking into account

the benefits you get full security of supply

The second worry is more fundamental. Will it work? The type

of reactor EDF plans for Hinkley is proving the industry conjugated to

build. The ones in France and Finland are running leers -- years

late and billions over budget. Maybe EDF has learned valuable lessons.

The Government boss Max out it for building several more nuclear plants

after Hinkley means the UK would reap all the benefits. -- the

Government's wanting to build several more nuclear plants. There

is a bizarre strategy of allowing several different reactor types to

be built at the same time we could find ourselves in a few years' time

with four different reactor types being built by five different

manufacturers. Even if Hinkley is finishing ten years' time, will it

be the type of power, the type of technology we actually need? The

supposed advantage of Hinkley as it provides a of power all the time.

Actually that is not what the UK wants anymore. It needs flexible

generating capacity that goes up and down to complement varying amounts

of wind, solar and hydro coming onto the electricity. Hinkley is

incredibly unresponsive. You cannot adjust its output. Renewable energy

currently cannot easily combined renewable energy and Hinkley Point.

Better energy storage could help smooth out the unpredictable peaks

and troughs of power supply. In an interconnected world, there is more

ability to adjust this down when it is tight. Hinkley was meant to like

the way to a new, modern energy system. The risk is the UK ends up

with an expensive and outdated piece of kit.

I'm joined now from Hinkley by its constituency MP,

Ian Liddell-Grainger, who has been involved in these

negotiations for the last nine-and-a-half years.

And also from our Bristol studio by the Green Party's south west

MEP, Molly Scott-Cato, a patron of the Stop

good evening to both of you. When did you find out there was going to

be a delay? I was actually here on site at Hinkley C and we were

discussing about the various parts to the deal with the team here. We

got a note saying the Prime Minister wanted to have a look at this and go

through it in her own way. That must have been a bit of a shock for you.

I probably should have guessed. Theresa May has her own mindful that

she has been a very successful Home Secretary. She checks everything. --

her own mind that she wants to make sure this is right. It is three

countries. An enormous deal for the United Kingdom, France and China.

She is checking it, like the Prime Minister should. Very much sticking

to the party line that she has been a Home Secretary for a long time in

the Government, so she knew it was coming. -- the party line. This is a

90,000 page deal. I had done four prime ministers and secretaries of

state. Amber Road is now the Home Secretary. Obviously, Andrea Leadsom

is also one of her secretaries of State. She has seen it going across.

Until you get into the complexities of the deal at this, you do not see

the whole picture. That is what this lady is doing. This presumably was a

surprise to you as well. For me, it was a pleasant surprise. It shows we

have had weak governments over the past six years and this deal has not

been scrutinised properly. It seems the Prime Minister is getting cold

feet and I hope she scrutinises the deal carefully. I hope if she does

that she will see the price is ridiculously high and not the type

of deal we need for the 21st-century. For all those reasons,

I think she will be changing her mind about this in the autumn. If

she does change her mind about it, chances are she will not necessarily

go for renewables or she may go for another kind of nuclear deal.

Renewables by far the most advanced technology we can bring on that

onstream quickly. They were not bring the amount of consistent

energy needed to make up the 7% desperate they needed in the next

ten years. Neither will Hinkley. We will not get any electricity from

Hinkley. Even if the reactor works by 2027. The only technologies we

have that work are renewables. We need to seriously invest in those

bring them on stream. That will create far more jobs, about 120,000

jobs according to a report I commissioned, compared with 500 at

Hinkley thought that it is better for the economy and better for jobs.

It is safer and cleaner as a way of producing electricity. Is the

Government in on this or is there any room for manoeuvre question what

you have said that Theresa May wants to look over it. What if she wants

to renegotiate the price at once and other nuclear deal, wants to bring

another country in? I do not think that is what she's doing. I have

just spoken to Greg Clark. She is the person she is. Greg Clark has

briefed her. I am getting in touch with her PPS tomorrow to ask for a

meeting so I can go through everything. That is not what she is

doing and it is blatantly obvious. She is wanting to make sure it is

right. If she is going to do this thoroughly, and make sure it is

right, you cannot be 100% sure it will go ahead as is because you are

not suggesting for one minute she might make changes. I wonder what

Greg Clark actually said to you. He said the Prime Minister will look at

it and is aware of the situation. She discussed it with President

Francois Hollande a few days ago but she is one of the people who look at

everything that is across her desk. That is the way it should be. You

can say it is the party line but I would say it is a common-sense

approach. I applaud the Prime Minister. That is strong government

and not weak government. Just coming back to you on that, there are some

issues about UDF. In there are issues about this particular type of

nuclear technology. -- about EDF. Other plants are way behind and over

budget. Let's just say that renewables are not the possibility

you wish them to be. Is there another way forward, if it is going

to be low carbon energy? I cannot really say that. I know that

renewables can do the job. You are right to draw attention to the fact

there are problems with EDF. Now the politics is starting to unravel,

they are using the scheme as a way to recapitalise business. That may

break European competition rules. The whole deal may itself turn out

to be illegal. Also what we are seeing as we have not had a proper

energy policy, a strategic energy policy in this country for several

decades. Our planners are being left behind when they are reducing

demand. That is if we just try to match supply of energy with demand

for energy and also use energy storage a lot better. You heard in

the film but the problem with the Hinkley Point C project is that it

cannot actually turn on and off electricity. You heard the

representative from Switch saying it does not do the job that is needed

in ten years' time where there will be different flows of electricity.

There needs to be a more sophisticated form of nuclear

energy. I'm sorry, I didn't see the film

because I'm here live at Hinckley. I think you're suggesting we need to

change to a modular system. I don't think it's the case at all. What

we're talking about is raw energy, it'll produce enough energy for 7%

of homes in Britain. It's a big, powerful beast, that's what building

here and I think we should. I've got confidence, I've spent nine and I

think we should. I've got confidence, I've spent nine and a

half over half my time as an MP. I've got faith in it and I think we

should get on with it. Thank you both very much indeed for joining

us. The German Chancellor,

Angela Merkel, today insisted that there would be

no change in the country's willingness to take in refugees

after the recent terror attacks. She interrupted her summer holiday

to return to Berlin and announced new measures to improve security,

including deciphering web chatter But, despite the fact that the two

attacks in Bavaria were carried out by asylum seekers, who both

had claimed allegiance to IS, she was adamant that Germany

would stick to its principles Munich train station

was the birthplace of Europe threw up fences,

Germans welcomed refugees Now, this country is taking a hard

look at its open border policy after four attacks in the space

of a week, three of them carried out In the little Bavarian town

of Ansbach on Sunday, It wasn't the deadliest

of the attacks, but it was the one with the most chilling implications

for a country struggling not to give in to fear.

The bomber was trying to get through this archway here,

because on the other side There were two and a half

thousand people here. Witnesses say they saw him pacing up

and down here, In the end, he came over to this

terrace here, that's The attacker was the man on the left

in the red shirt. A Syrian who arrived in Germany two

years ago via Bulgaria. In 2013, he was interviewed

on Bulgarian TV talking He was due to be deported

from Germany back to Bulgaria. Before he blew himself up he pledged

allegiance to Islamic State. Neighbours said he was friendly

but quite isolated. Annette and Gabriela live

on the same street. They got to know Dalil quite well

through their voluntary In October he had an injured arm,

and he had an operation. And then I haven't seen him for many

weeks, and I asked, where is he? And he said, he's in his room,

he has a laptop now, and he doesn't come out

of his room that much any more. Did you get the impression

he was particularly religious? You say that very firmly,

why are you so sure? Because I know he didn't do Ramadan,

we talked about that... He was not a soldier

for IS, not at all. Nee, das ist eine

Ausrede. A year ago, an army of Annettes

and Gabrielas came together in an extraordinary

display of hospitality. But for these two, that

solidarity has been shattered. Personally, I just told my friend,

everybody needs to go back home. I'm not willing to go

out of my way and help, because I'm afraid that your

friendly, and then actually you turn Did that change for you on Sunday

was demand on Sunday. Just around the corner we met a man

who summed up how many people feel. Because there was this

Willkommenskultur, this welcoming. All of last week's attacks took

place in southern Germany. A mass shooting

in a shopping centre. A machete attack near a restaurant,

as well as Sunday's suicide bombing. More than a million refugees have

come to Germany since the beginning The majority of them

through Bavaria. Now, there is talk of

closing the Borders, Has it changed since

the attacks of the last week? We don't yet know the extent

of the impact of all of this on German public opinion,

but certainly the kind of language we're hearing today is very

different from what people were saying a year ago, last summer,

at the height of Willkommenskultur. Even before these attacks,

support for Angela Merkel's refugee policy was dwindling,

and now she is under intense political pressure

from her own coalition partners. The CSU, the centre-right party that

dominates politics in Bavaria, today said refugees who couldn't

prove their identity should be Angela Merkel said she would order

extra security measures, but on her refugee policy

she is holding firm. TRANSLATION: For me it's clear

we will stick to our principles. Our principle, which is article one

of the German constitution, that the dignity of human

beings is inviolable. And the principles mean we give

those who are politically persecuted asylum, and we give protection

to those fleeing war In accordance with the Geneva

Convention. In Ansbach, investigators are trying

to work out whether Mohammed Dalil was a member of Islamic State

from the beginning, or whether his pledge of allegiance

was a more recent development. The German authorities say Dalil

was suffering from mental illness. That he had tried and tried

to commit suicide, and that his psychological treatment

had been terminated. Juergen Sauer, a psychotherapist

who works with asylum seekers, says many are traumatised,

and that bureaucratic hurdles often mean they can't

get the help they need. We know all these people

who went to the hospital because they wanted to commit

suicide, they get for 1-2 weeks the support, and then they are sent

again into life without support. It might be really a relationship

between this lack of treatment In other words, there may

be others out there. Many are now asking

an uncomfortable question. Has the open border policy

made Germans vulnerable? In Ansbach, the local priest

was having dinner with his family when he heard the bomb go off just

outside his church. TRANSLATION: What happened

here in the past week, of course, it's doing

something to us. But if we split, if we turn

against each other, if we reject people who are in need,

then something really And yet the week's deadliest attack

had nothing to do with refugees. Munich's Muslim community held

prayers at the site of Friday's attack, when a German-

Iranian teenager with a history of depression opened fire

in a shopping centre. He killed ten people,

including himself. He shouted antiforeigner slogans,

and followed the Norwegian Had he been white, this

would have been interpreted as a far right attack,

but his heritage means the public gaze is directed back

to the issue of immigration. As the spectre of terrorism

casts its shadow deeper into Europe, these are fearful and confusing

times for Germany. Joining me now from Cologne

is German MP Norbert Spinrath, European Affairs spokesman

for the SPD Party, who are in coalition

with Angela Merkel's CDU/CSU. Good evening, Mr Spinrath. Good

evening from Cologne. A survey said the majority of the SPD believe

Angela Merkel's refugee policy had failed. I do not think that it

failed. The social Democratic party as a coalition partner of Chancellor

Merkel stays to her policy for refugees. I think there is no link

from the refugees to the attacks of the last days. We saw a mass murder,

mass shooting, without any link to terrorist attacks. We saw a refugee

who arrived two years ago in Germany. He was ill, he had

depressions, he was a mystic, I think that was not a normal

terrorist attack. -- he was brain sick. If two refugees are involved

in such attacks, when you have 2 million refugees in the last 18

months, it is not to be called a link between those. But we heard

from people in the film who were very welcoming originally feeling

they were going to pull back. One MP in Angela Merkel's own party has

said it's all very well to have the welcome culture, but we need the

farewell culture where failed asylum seekers are moved out of the country

more quickly, do you agree with that? I think we have two I -- have

to observe. We have to see that 99% of very normal people... They need

protection. They came to us to look for protection. They are happy they

can be here, far away from their homeland, where there is war, or

other things. I think we have to look very strong on those they are

failing in their role. And we have to take measures. We have a large

catalogue what we want to do in future. I wonder if you think what

has happened in Germany is quite different to what is happening in

France. Manuel Valls, the French Prime Minister, has said people will

have to learn to live with the terrorist threat, is it the same for

Germany? Yellow no, we don't want to live with the

terrorist threat, we want to make sure our people, our inhabitants,

that they are secure in Germany, and that the police Administration, the

police forces, and other administrations, we'll do anything

to give them security. I'm sorry to interrupt. I just wonder if you

think there is any validity in the calls some people are making in

Germany for a pause. Just to calm things down, rethink, sort out

security better, then restart allowing refugees. What do you think

about that possibility? I think most of the people... And I spoke to a

lot of them. Most of the people say there is a link. We have to deal

with it, operate a lot of measures. Do anything for my security, that

says the people. The people are not in that fear that a few politicians

want to mention. Mr Spinrath, thank you very much indeed.

In just over four hours, Chelsea Clinton will introduce her

mother at the Democrat National Convention in Philadelphia.

And all the speeches from Meryl Streep's opening scream,

to Michelle Obama's brilliantly crafted words, from Bill Clinton's

folksy homage, to Barack Obama's ringing endorsement have been

leading to this moment when Hillary Clinton takes the stage.

The problem is, is the whipsmart, dedicated, loyal, honest woman

they portray the one that the voters see.

The faithful are in the hall, but the sceptical threaten

I'm asking you to join me and reject cynicism and reject fear.

The situation is worse than it has ever been before!

Don't let anyone ever tell you this country

The other campaign looks based on fear. Of immigrants, terrorism and

economic decline. The 2016 presidential election feels

like a choice. For what was traditionally a nation

of optimists. Between two diametrically

opposed narratives Hope and fear are not

new things in American Back in 1968, Richard Nixon's

campaigns were set against a The Vietnam War, and

the assassinations of Martin Luther King

and Robert Kennedy, and widespread rioting

in Nixon was the fear

candidate and his strategy As we look at America, we see cities

enveloped in smoke and flames. We hear Simon is the night. We see

Americans dying on distant battlefields abroad.

Our convention occurs at the moment of crisis for

The attacks on our police and the terrorism of our

cities threaten our very way of life.

Donald Trump and his team have

been clear they see 1968 and present-day

They look to Nixon's campaign for inspiration.

If you look at 1968, the Democratic president was

I think Lyndon Johnson was in the 30s, maybe the 20s.

It is maybe slightly ticking up after having

American troop casualties were very high in 1968.

There is really nothing comparable to that now.

Don't get cynical because, look at yourselves...

The Nixon and Trump campaigns are a far cry from Ronald

Reagan's vision of America in the 1980s.

Wanted to be a shining city on a hill.

One obvious way of measuring hope or fear is consumer

One rule has held fast since the 1980s.

When consumer confidence is above 100

points, the incumbent party wins the popular vote.

2012, that rule was broken. President Obama won despite economic

gloom. Today, consumer confidence is at 97. The Democrats and Republicans

disagreeing on everything, it is possible that can -- consumer

confidence may be affected by Republicans thinking the cupboard is

bare simply because there is a democratic president. Republicans

thinking it is good because there is a Democratic president. It may not

mean what it used to put it is difficult to surf this stuff out. I

still believe in a place called Hope. It is worth remembering that

while Bill Clinton and Barrett Obama whether recent optimism candidates,

despite the rhetoric for many Americans right now, it is this man

who is offering hope, a chance to change their fortunes. That may be

difficult to resist. Joining me now are Jill Abramson

from the Guardian US and Tina Brown Good evening to both of you. First

of all, Tina Brown, hearing what Katie was saying. The problem is

Barack Obama talks about America being great. A lot of Americans do

not think America is a great for them and they do not feel to this --

optimistic. She has -- they have to counter the idea that Donald Trump

is the candidate of hope. There is as much psychic gloom, emotional

gloom, as there is economic gloom in large swathes of America who feel

left behind and left out of the big dream and left on the shelf, not

considered, talked down to by the elite. Those are the people who

Donald Trump is speaking to. What we have seen is the majority of

Americans have said America is not on the right track. More than half

of the Americans have said they want the candidate of change. Most of

them feel Hillary Clinton is not the candidate for change. They also feel

that Donald Trump is my changes may be for the worse. That leaves us in

a fascinating situation. Everyone wants change and Trump is the change

candidate. Everyone was trying to stress that Hillary Clinton was a

candidate for change. That was the theme of Bill Clinton's song. Like

Tina Brown, you know Hillary Clinton, at least partly from

close-up and partly from a distance. The problem is she does lead into

the idea that she is part of the elite and actually she has some very

tricky stuff which may well then resurfaced in the next four months.

How does she counter that? Well, you have heard some of the rhetoric

already during this week in the convention, where many speakers have

labelled her the change maker. She is trying to portray herself as an

agent of change, which you are right, is quite tricky, considering

she has been a Washington figure for generations. -- a generation. Going

back to when she was first lady in 1993. Just to come in on that, the

recent CNN poll, when it talks about trustworthiness and honesty, 68% say

Hillary Clinton is not honest and trustworthy versus 43% on Trump.

That is devastating at this stage of the game. It is devastating but I

have written that, based on supervising investigative stories

about her at the New York Times, as an investigative reporter myself,

looking into many of the Clinton controversies, I think she is

basically honest and trustworthy. Many of the charges against her at

the Republican convention, people chancing lock her up. It is

extremely exaggerated. Even though most recent e-mails, when you

actually examined the case against her, it came down to three e-mails

that did not have clarified headers. She is hurt by that. She is hurt by

that but she blames the media. She is very distrustful of the media and

hostile to them. Very defensive about the media. With good reason.

Hillary Clinton has been demonised for decades and decades and decades

by the GOP, the Republican attack machine, and these nonevent pseudo-

scandals in a sense which have bedevilled her. A leading Republican

person is said to me last night, Hillary Clinton has baggage but

Trump is crazy and you cannot fix crazy. Interesting that Michael

Bloomberg last night, himself a billionaire, the businessman

candidate, he really made the point that Trump is a reckless candidate.

As we go towards an election, it is about whether the petty and

trustworthiness of Hillary Clinton will be as dangerous in her mind as

a reckless, radical, off the wall candidate. You have to accept you

think that and a lot of people in the big cities think that. In great

swathes of America, they think that Trump is the best candidate. On

radio, you are talking about what she had to do in the campaign a new

city had to show her true self, to be stern and release her inner

pitch, as you called it. Is this really the night for that? I think

you have already seen a little bit of that in men talking about her.

They stressed the fighter in Hillary Clinton. It was almost as if Hillary

Clinton is supposed to be be solid, national-security candidate last

time, this time she is being positioned as the cuddly

grandmother. The truth of Hillary Clinton is she is a feisty, BS

women, who fights the change. I think it will be a lot more

appealing, particularly to the young, the Lenny women, who want to

see their women are fierce. -- millennial. It is more authentic

than anything we have heard before. What we have heard in a well crafted

speech written for Michelle Obama and Obama and Clinton were both

orators. She is not an oratory, so I wonder how she is going to deal with

this. She has said she is not a natural politician like her husband.

In terms of her feistiness and, to use her phrase, we saw that in the

primaries with the great speech in San Diego. You could see how she

relished attacking Donald Trump on important points. She is nearly

ready to go out there and really get in his face. She herself is kind of

delights in the fact she's so she clearly gets under his skin. Tina

Brown, in a way, what we are talking about is the night this convention

finishes, the big fight starts between the pair of them. Things are

going to get very dirty. In the swing states you are very have to

that is she will have to play a very careful game. Hillary loves a fight.

At her best is when her back is against the wall. During the last

primary campaign, and now, she is in the thick of it. She will be buoyed

up by all of these testimonies after being so battered. It must be very

exciting for her to hear these wonderful testimonies from so many,

incredibly strong figures in the Democratic party. She will put on

her fighting boots. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank

you. The front pages tomorrow, chaos over

nuclear plant. Ministers done energy industry with new Hinkley review. On

the left-hand side, rail fares to -- rail firms to cut fares on

investigation. Last orders for airport drinking. An intention to

make passengers pay for unruly behaviour. In the Guardian, Hinkley

Point nuclear plant gets the go-ahead. On the right-hand side, it

has a hug from last night at the convention as Hillary Clinton made a

surprise appearance before tonight's B.

Today Sky announced that they were launching a big push

We feel like we've seen this new fangled nonsense before.

I think this was the happiest day of my life.

Thursday was another warm day in the south. Fresh condition is now

pushing in from the north. This weather