27/07/2016 Newsnight

You probably don't know him like they do, but you soon will.

Michel Barnier is the new European Commission's enforcer

Meanwhile, our new International Trade Secretary has already

been rebuffed by Canada, and didn't fare much

I'll be asking a former US Trade Representative what chance

a quick trade deal with North America.

Also tonight, Emily's in Philidelphia.

As the Democrats Mark a historic milestone, Donald Trump calls on

Russia about the missing e-mails. Is it a defining issue or is he trying

to dominate her day? And Labour's internecine

war goes on. Owen Smith, Jeremy Corbyn's

challenger, woos the party's left. Ladies and gentlemen, Owen Smith.

The public sector pay freeze would end. We'll be spending an extra 4%

per annum on the NHS, and equality busting wealth tax.

We've been to Burnley, where it's all too little, too late.

I'll be asking Kate Green, who quit the Shadow Cabinet,

They are showing themselves for what they are, which is just career.

I'll be asking Kate Green, who quit the Shadow Cabinet,

if the Smith pitch can reach beyond the membership to the voters.

Today we had the first evidence that the EU isn't going to sit back

and let Britain have the whip hand in the Brexit negotiations -

The EU President, Jean Claude Juncker,

politician for this difficult job," and Michel Barnier, the former

French Foreign Minister, Agriculture Minister,

and former EU Commisioner, who led the EU banking

He starts his new job on October 1st, ahead of Britain formally

notifying the EU of its intent to withdraw using the

But should any deal fail even the final default position -

resting on the WTO, the World Trade Organisation,

Former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg has told Newsnight

that he fears that Britain could be at the mercy of unfriendly nations.

Our political editor, Nick Watt, reports.

As Europe heads off on its summer holidays, Theresa May has been

on something of a charm offensive around the EU.

But today, we started to get the first

negotiations that will take us out of the European Union, the silver

haired former French Foreign Minister, Michel Barnier, was

appointed as the European Commission's chief Brexit

This raised eyebrows in some circles.

Like a lot of people of his generation and his

ideological background in France, they feel like the crisis in 2008

showed the limits of what they regard as excessive Anglo-Saxon

It shows he will not be a pushover when it comes

to the Brexit negotiations, not only for the City

of London itself, but the UK economy as a whole.

Others thought he would be more friendly to the UK. He does not

dislike the Brits. He is a good-natured chap, easy going bust

up in some ways he will be similar to David Davis, focusing on the big

picture, ignoring the details are known what he wants at the start of

the negotiation. The appointment showed there was something of a turf

war in Brussels over who should take the lead in negotiating Brexit. The

commission who appointed him believes it should be in charge of

the negotiations in its role as EU Executive and guardian of the

treaty. The European Council, representing European heads of state

and government believes it should be in the lead. While they were

jostling for position in Brussels, in the US, Liam Fox was putting

flesh on the bones of the UK's Brexit plan. Britain would leave the

EU customs union to allow it to negotiate free-trade deals across

the world. Theresa May cautiously endorsed this plan, though she did

make it clear she wants to keep her options open on British access to

the separate EU single market. We need to ensure we get the best

possible deal in relation to trade in goods and services. I am looking

at this with an open mind. I think we should be developing a model that

suits United Kingdom and the European Union. Not adopting a model

that is on the shelf already but saying, what will work for the UK

and what will work best for the European Union? Being in the customs

union could stop you from negotiating the sort of free trail

to use mooted by Liam Fox in the U S. -- free trade deals. Retaining

access to the single market would avoid nontariff barriers. The

unilateral imposition of regulations. No one has been allowed

access to the single market without accepting free movement of people.

One leading Brexiteer said the UK must leave both the customs union

and the single market to respect the will of the British people. I am on

the side of Liam Fox. I think we need to leave the customs union and

the single market. We are more than capable of standing on our own two

feet. We need to be able to make our own trade deals. That means out must

mean out. One former EU trade ingratiating fears if the UK adopts

hardball tactics it could face a hard Brexit, where we would fall

back on World Trade Organisation rules. He believes a change in UK

status could leave us at the mercy of unfriendly countries. Just to

show how ferociously complex all of this series, if the United Kingdom

to say they want to reset or change the terms of our commitments in the

world trade system within the WTO, there are 126 other countries. The

whole thing operates by consensus. One of which could basically block

the UK's new commitments within the World Trade Organisation if we pull

out of the EU. It is now working on a series of papers to highlight the

challenge of negotiations. We are moving, I feel, from the initial

panic, shock and surprise of the referendum decision to several weeks

of almost phoney peace, almost denial, about the consequences of

that decision. What we will move to after the holiday break and in

September, October, November, when we get the resumption of the season,

we will get into a lot of the nitty-gritty. The choice in the

referendum had seemed so straightforward. Leave to take back

control or remain to avoid economic risk. Making our way in the world

now all seems a lot more complicated.

I'm joined now in the studio by former Foreign Secretary

Malcolm Rifkind and from Philadelphia by Miriam Sapiro, who

served as a US Trade Representative and Director of European Affairs

on the US National Security Council.

Good evening to both of you. First of all, Malcolm Rifkind, let's talk

about Michelle -- Michel Bernier. He was the Europe Minister for France

when I was Foreign Secretary. He is a tough guy, European federalist by

background. Being French he also has a strong protectionist streak. He's

not keen on free trade and open borders. However, there is a very

important however. The real decisions are not going to be taken

either by him or by Liam Fox or David Davis. In our case, you'll be

taken by the Cabinet committee, chaired by Theresa May. She will lay

down and have more influence anyone else. In the European case, Angela

Merkel, President Francois Hollande, they will have a comparable role.

The commission does have the responsibility to find the right

individual but I'm sure that will have been discussed with others as

well. It is a marvellous parallels. Just as Theresa May decided it was

good to have three hardline Brexiteers to argue from the UK

point of view. They will have to compromise at some stage. From the

EU ends, they are perhaps deliberately appointing a pretty

strong European and sending a message by saying we're not going to

be a soft touch but he will have to compromise as well. You also,

extraordinarily, no Michel Bernier as well. What is your impression of

him? That's right. We did some negotiations together. Both sides

are no doubt trying to figure out how to portray the strongest

possible positions. I do not think that will be adopted here. I hope

they will each listen to the other side and tried to figure out a win -

win scenario for the UK and the rest of the world. I know you are having

to fight against the noise of the very excited democratic convention

with Barack Obama coming soon. Maybe I will get you to put your

microphone quite high up. You are also very much on Hillary Clinton's

economic team if she were to become US president. What do you think the

attitude would be to Britain? We know there has been an early rebus

for Liam Fox. What is the attitude towards doing a deal with the UK,

given that there is tough negotiations going on with the whole

of the US at the moment? The secretary is so focused right now on

the election. I do not know if you can hear me with the background

noise. She is totally focused on the campaign and winning the election

because the stakes are so high for the United States. We saw what brand

recently with Brexit when many voters woke up the next morning and

were not quite sure what was going on and what had happened. We are

hoping that will not be the situation here and voters will pay

attention now to what is at stake. You will remember that during the EU

referendum campaign, Barack Obama was enlisted as it were up by David

Cameron and came over to the UK and said, if there were a vote to leave,

Britain would go to the back of a cube in terms of a trade deal. Is

that just part of the US contribution to project fear? --

back of the queue. I think he was pointing out the difficulties

inherent with a vote to leave. He has been a strong Atlanticist, as

has the secretary, when she served as his representative. I think he

was honest in suggesting that the UK voters think twice about the

importance of this decision. I think now that the decision has been made,

and the Prime Minister has reiterated she is determined to see

what she can do to ensure there will be a strong UK no matter what, I

think it has changed in that there will have to be discussions between

the US and the UK as to what their future trade relationship could look

like. To think it could be a positive outcome for the UK in terms

of trade relationship with the US? I do think so. The whole issue is

terribly, but hated. It wouldn't be that hard to engage in -- envision a

trade agreement win the US and the UK done relatively quickly given

that both economies are already barely open. They both take an open

perspective on the lies a. They both have a strong advantage in services.

Malcolm Rifkind, it is all about the negotiation now. Do you agree that

actually Britain could have an advantageous position regarding the

US? It could. That is not the ultimate question at this stage. A

decision as we taken by the British government as to whether it wants to

have some kind of customs union because, if you have a customs

union, that means you have a common external tariff. Neither Britain nor

the EU can have separate trade deals with other countries. What does that

mean in terms of Liam Fox's hardline position coming like a greyhound out

of the tracks today? It is premature. The first decision that

have to be made is what with the United Kingdom government ideally

like? It is not just up to them. They then have to consider, is it at

all likely that the EU will give subversion compromises to make that

possible? You trigger Article 50 in 18 months, and in that 18 month

period, two years, we are trading our way and getting our position

out. At the same time, the UK is preparing to do the deals under FTA

or whatever it is. A lot of work has to be done on working not just on

what we would ideally like but one of the most probable outcomes of a

negotiation with the United States, for example, or with China or India,

and how that would compare with what we might get from the European

Union, given half our traders with them. You have Liam Fox and David

Davis, strong characters. Can Theresa May exert discipline?

Absolutely. Boris Johnson will not be as hardline as the other two. His

views are more nuanced as to whether we could have some sort of movement

of people into the UK from other European countries. The other two

will be more hardline. A decision on other taken by any individual but by

the Kavanagh and Theresa May will have the main influence.

Labour's summer civil war is being fought by two men trying

to out-left each other on the left of the party.

But today the challenger, Owen Smith, delivered

a speech in which he tried to steal a march on Jeremy Corbyn

by actually coming up with policies -

tax the rich, end the public sector pay freeze,

scrap the Department of Work and Pensions and pour

But wouldn't Jeremy Corbyn say the same?

Our Political Editor, Nick Watt, is here.

So he makes this speech today, and what happens? Owen Smith was here on

Monday night, and we asked him to put flesh on his ideas, so then he

went away and then his message was, I can be as radical as Jeremy

Corbyn, but more radical possibly, because I can actually deliver. So

you heard about those tax increases and a tax on wealth. He was casting

himself as a realistic revolutionary, unlike Jeremy Corbyn.

This is what he had to say. We need a revolution

but not some misty-eyed, romantic notion of a revolution,

where we are going to overthrow capitalism and return

to a socialist nirvana. But a cold-eyed, practical,

Socialist revolution. How did that go down? At one level,

Owen Smith is pursuing a sensible strategy. Jeremy Corbyn is admired

by the Labour grassroots, and Owen Smith knows that if he's going to

win, he's got to show that he's tacking to the left. But he has two

challenges - has he consistently been radical, and he was here the

other night talking about being in favour of choice in the NHS. And if

he has been radical since the day he was born in Wales, people might say,

why don't I vote for the real radical thing, Jeremy Corbyn? And he

did make a slip up today. He did. He was trying to say that he was the

true guardian and representative of workers' rights, and not Theresa

May. This is what he said. Theresa May even had the temerity,

I don't know if you saw it, at PMQs ten days ago, a week ago today

in fact, to lecture Labour. Lecturing Labour on social injustice

or insecurity at work. I'll be honest with you,

it pains me that we didn't have the strength, the power

and the vitality, to smash her back on her heels and argue that these

are our values. Well, as Labour fight amongst

themselves, what about the people who used to be regarded

as their core support? At the time of the Brexit vote,

Nicolas Blakemore went to Burnley to talk to people there about how

they view the political revolution Mr Corbyn has refused to step down

since losing the support of most Len McCluskey accused those trying

to remove Jeremy Corbyn I voted Labour because

my parents voted Labour, And I think they did used to be

for the working class. Nigel Farage wants what's best

for this country first, We have to take so many in,

refugees. I feel sorry for them,

I really, honestly do, but what about when you go

to Manchester on a night out and all them people

sat there homeless? They've got tents, haven't they,

not far from Piccadilly? I think there's some foreign people

who have come to this country These foreign people come in,

because they've been let in. They get shopping vouchers

to get their shopping. They get priority over anything

that we get, and even when they're working,

they still get benefits If you've put that

through on the 10th, The Tories have really,

really gone to town. We've actually got food banks around

here, and people who What do you think about

Jeremy Corbyn? So he is the current Leader

of the Labour Party. To be honest, I don't know

much about him at all. Since he was in power,

I've absolutely taken no notice of the Labour Party whatsoever,

because he were just a joke, really. He did numerous things,

that there was the issue and he was calling the woman

bigoted and whatnot. And I think that lost Labour

a lot of votes. I always voted Labour

because my mum and dad did, and my grandparents did,

so I just followed suit. I feel like Labour are just

bothered about Labour. So the council are all happy

and well paid and looked after, I think they are just

like the rest of the parties now. They don't seem to bother

about the working class. I've just been watching

the news, just now, talking about Jeremy Corbyn not even,

possibly not even being able I don't actually listen to them

any more, to be honest. I don't support Jeremy Corbyn,

but, to me, it looks a bit like a stitch up,

rather than a Parliamentary party. Who's going to be the Leader

of the Labour Party? And when will they

find out? It will probably be on the news

tomorrow, and then we will see When I was young, we had

mining and cotton mills and everything around here,

loads of factories. You've spoken about what jobs used

to be available in Burnley, but now anybody around my age who's

not gone through the education system basically

is looking at agency work. It's like the modern day lining up

at the Liverpool Docks to get picked for a day's work,

is agency work. When I left school, I was 15,

and I had a job at a sewing place And I were only there for a morning

and they were asking me, And I walked out of there,

went and had an interview somewhere else, and started

another job the day after. Now, you're struggling to get a job,

and if you do get one, you've to stick at it

whether you like it or you don't. The Labour Party say

that they want to address this These people don't live

in the real world. These people are in a career

of politics. And you're seeing the game now

with the Labour Party, They're just showing theirself

for what they actually are, Well, joining me now is Kate Green,

the Labour MP who is chairing Good evening. You heard that view

from Burnley. People don't know who Jeremy Corbyn is, much less Owen

Smith. And that goes back a decade. Isn't the problem that you've taken

people for granted so long, they are just going to go to Ukip? I think

people are very angry, very fearful, very worried about the future for

themselves and their families. That over very powerfully in the

conversations we've just been listening to. But it's also

important to realise that we've got to be honest about what can be done,

and the lies that people were being told during the referendum campaign

about money being available for the NHS, for example, that were not

true, and the proven not to be true, are going to make them further

disillusioned and disbelieving in politics. Today, Owen Smith made 20

policy pledges. They were on the economy, on taxation... What are

they going to cost? More money for the NHS, ending public sector pay

freeze... Where is the cost? It's important to understand not just how

much they're going to cost, but how they will be paid for. That goes to

the heart of what Owen was saying this morning, about our country

having become very an equal. We are one of the richest countries in the

world, but the money is concentrated in the hands of the very small

number of people. Owen talk today about a wealth tax that would enable

us to put money into the NHS. 20 billion. You will get that from a

wealth tax? I don't think we are saying it is possible to put our

country back on its feet and regenerate the communities we just

been seeing in Burnley without understanding the money that is

concentrated in the hands of wealthier people and organisations

needs to be distributed, but also, Owen has talked about an investment

programme, funded by borrowing, buy government bonds, to get our

communities back on their feet. Listening to people in Burnley

there, one of the big issues for people was immigration. Owen was

very critical of Jeremy Corbyn, saying he did not address

immigration properly. This was his first policy speech, and not a word

about immigration. Why not? Different communities have different

experiences of immigration. But this was a speech to the nation saying

why people should vote for him on the left and not Jeremy Corbyn, and

he didn't mention immigration, having criticised Jeremy Corbyn for

not doing it. People in Burnley are feeling about the pressure on their

public services. They are worried about immigration! They are talking

about immigration, but they are worried about a deeper sense of

insecurity for themselves, about jobs not being available. We heard

them talking about the council not looking after the local area. So

people do talk about immigration, at the deeper worry they feel is

because of the inequality in this country, which leaves them feeling

shut out of our prosperity. You've heard them saying what they think,

and you say, what they really feel is. Isn't that the problems? People

are saying that Labour are not listening to them and feeling their

pain, they are career politicians. You didn't talk about welfare, just

lots more money for the economy, and yet nothing chimes with people

because they don't believe you. I am sure Owen will talk about more

issues during this campaign. If an communities have different

experiences of immigration. Some communities are accustomed to many

new arrivals coming in among them, hats seasonal work, hats over many

decades where there have been new communities arriving. Others do not

have that experience. It is very important that we listen to what

people are saying... This is not about the 600,000. It is the 11

million you will have two attractive the ballot box. You will have to

attract people who are voting Tory now. The single thing that separates

Owen Smith from Jeremy Corbyn that people would actually vote for.

People are frightened and worried in my constituency, feeling insecure

about jobs, public services and the NHS. Owen talked about those things

today. But the prospectus that Owen Smith is putting out today is no

different from Jeremy Corbyn's it was regarded as being toxic a year

ago. It looks like Owen Smith wants to out left Jeremy Corbyn. Why did

he not vote for Jeremy Corbyn a year ago? It is not a question of whether

they share values, because I think they do. It is about whether they

have tangible solutions and concrete proposals to put these ideas and

values into practice. It's important to say that this country isn't at

ease with itself. People are worried. They feel divided. They

feel a lack of confidence in the future. Owen's belief to address

that is to invest in our communities and our people, and that is what

voters want to hear. Thank you. Now to the Democrat convention

in Philadelpia, where a pumped-up crowd are waiting for

President Obama. The milestone marked

by Hillary Clinton in this hall last night is a moment of history -

albeit one that seems - to many in the rest of the world -

to have taken a long time coming. She reached her delegate

count when South Dakota But the jaw-dropping moment

of the night came when her arch-rival Bernie Sanders appeared

in the hall to declare the end of the counting

and nominate her himself - a move that matched her own

concession eight years Words, then and now,

which speak volumes The convention here has been

a tightly choreographed affair - with little mention

of her Republican rival. But today, Trump himself muscled in,

calling on Russia to hack Clinton's e-mails - a controversy

which still raises questions This is the sound that Hillary's

oft-quoted glass ceiling makes I am sensing this is

the greatest thing that has Each state taking a lyrical

moment in the sun to offer Their bigotry is tired,

their attacks are uninspired. So, Mike Pence and Donald Trump,

you are officially fired. I moved that the convention suspend

the procedural rules... In the end, the counting though

was brought to a swift close This is the moment we've all been

waiting for at convention. Bernie Sanders hinted earlier today

he wouldn't be the one nominating He's taken to the floor as a show

of endorsement to encourage all his supporters to fall

in line behind him. Governor of New York Andrew Cuomo

had spent time earlier with Sanders, I had him with me this morning

and we were chatting. I knew he was working very hard

to unify the convention. He had to get his delegates

to agree. Sometimes, the delegates can get

so fired up about something that even when the leader says,

we're going left, That evening, her husband,

Bill Clinton, tried to show the Hillary he'd long known,

talking of challenges she'd faced without explicitly stating his part

in creating some of them. One of her oldest friends,

Lanny Davis, knew her I first met Hillary when her last

name was Rodham, before So, over all those yeras,

there have been ups and downs. She has always struggled and fought

and never given up, been knocked As a woman, women are accustomed to

that a lot. She's never given up as long

as I've known her. Did you ever doubt she would get to

this point? The first five minutes I met her,

I thought to myself, after saying goodbye,

it was the first day I've just met the first female

President of the United States. Make no mistake, this electoral

circus has only just begun. Today, Donald Trump endeavoured

to exploit Clinton's electoral vulnerability,

encouraging Russia to What does Jerry Springer,

a man who's made a day job This is the first time in American

history we've ever had someone running for president who is opposed

to the idea of America. The whole concept of America

is the Statue of Liberty. Now, all of a sudden,

we have someone who wants, in a sense, to replace

it by building a wall, That is so un-American,

it's embarrassing. He won the Republican Primaries,

he did not yet face Now, if I'm wrong, he'll run this

state come November but I think in November the American people

won't vote for Donald Well, joining me is Xavier Becerra,

Chair of the Democratic Caucus Very nice of you to join us. I want

to start with those comments by Donald Trump, calling on Russia to

expose -- expose Hillary Clinton's thing e-mails. I have never seen a

candidate or nominee for president engaging in criminal activity,

hacking cyber crimes and do it for an American company. It is another

sign how Donald Trump is not fit to be president or commander-in-chief.

That message was not really to Putin, it was to the American

people. He knows this carries weight, the whole issue of

trustworthiness will be hard. If you want to communicate something, do it

the right way. Do not break the laws. It is very dangerous. He has

made many dangerous statements. This is just another. The recent action

of abandoning Nato was another reckless thing done by Donald Trump.

There have been another of other dangerous statements made. At some

point, one should become president, you are going to be shooting with

live bullets. The worry for people now is, people may just decide to

stay at home. If they do not like what they are hearing from either

side. You look at this crowd you look at the energy which has been

here. That is not this crowd. It will be the start of the actual

election campaign. This is where it begins. You always have the forward

guard. They are the events team. They are die-hard supporters. They

get out there and others start to pay attention. Before you know it,

people realise this is real. We have a guy who is telling Russia to

engage in cyber crimes in the US. It is real. I was a little worried

about what was happening in Great Britain recently with the Brexit

vote, I have confidence in America. People will vote for the best

interests of this country. What do you do to reach people, for example,

the Hispanic vote, he might choose not to bother? Let them realise you

are not just an image on the street. It is important because there is

cynicism to the end. We get it back and we do not understand. We do not

understand how people would hack our system. We have to connect again.

Thank you very much indeed. Hillary Clinton is a very clever operator.

Clearly working out the people she needs to breach now are Hispanics,

rather than appointing Bernie Sanders. She knows in the end you

will probably get their support anyway. Probably.

Thank you, Amelie. The Daily Telegraph, working in an office is

as bad as smoking. Daily Express puts a picture of Michel Barnier on

the front page. The UK economy begins to feel the Brexit tremors.

An attack about Clinton e-mails in the Guardian. The serious business

Brexit and two recent may joins a light moment with the counterpart.

The big story in the Times. Scientists create the first drug to

halt Alzheimer's disease. That is almost it for tonight. If you have

had not enough disturbing news for this month, look away now. The

Siberian Times reports that scientists are finding jelly holes,

large bubbles containing the greenhouse super gas, methane. They

are performing above the Arctic tundra. It is not known if climate

change is the cause but hundreds, if not thousands of gigatons of the gas

light frozen in the permafrost. Look at this and sleep well.

Some rain and sunshine. A bright start across eastern counties. That

rain will arrive later on in the day. It will stay damp for much of

the day across Northern Ireland and southern Scotland and it will

consequently be quite cool. Chance of showers in the far north. Damp

and dreary in the north of England.