27/07/2016 Newsnight


Europe asks a Frenchman to negotiate Brexit. Owen Smith sets out his proposals for Labour. Donald Trump appears to incite Russia to hack Hillary Clinton's emails.

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You probably don't know him like they do, but you soon will.


Michel Barnier is the new European Commission's enforcer


Meanwhile, our new International Trade Secretary has already


been rebuffed by Canada, and didn't fare much


I'll be asking a former US Trade Representative what chance


a quick trade deal with North America.


Also tonight, Emily's in Philidelphia.


As the Democrats Mark a historic milestone, Donald Trump calls on


Russia about the missing e-mails. Is it a defining issue or is he trying


to dominate her day? And Labour's internecine


war goes on. Owen Smith, Jeremy Corbyn's


challenger, woos the party's left. Ladies and gentlemen, Owen Smith.


The public sector pay freeze would end. We'll be spending an extra 4%


per annum on the NHS, and equality busting wealth tax.


We've been to Burnley, where it's all too little, too late.


I'll be asking Kate Green, who quit the Shadow Cabinet,


They are showing themselves for what they are, which is just career.


I'll be asking Kate Green, who quit the Shadow Cabinet,


if the Smith pitch can reach beyond the membership to the voters.


Today we had the first evidence that the EU isn't going to sit back


and let Britain have the whip hand in the Brexit negotiations -


The EU President, Jean Claude Juncker,


politician for this difficult job," and Michel Barnier, the former


French Foreign Minister, Agriculture Minister,


and former EU Commisioner, who led the EU banking


He starts his new job on October 1st, ahead of Britain formally


notifying the EU of its intent to withdraw using the


But should any deal fail even the final default position -


resting on the WTO, the World Trade Organisation,


Former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg has told Newsnight


that he fears that Britain could be at the mercy of unfriendly nations.


Our political editor, Nick Watt, reports.


As Europe heads off on its summer holidays, Theresa May has been


on something of a charm offensive around the EU.


But today, we started to get the first


negotiations that will take us out of the European Union, the silver


haired former French Foreign Minister, Michel Barnier, was


appointed as the European Commission's chief Brexit


This raised eyebrows in some circles.


Like a lot of people of his generation and his


ideological background in France, they feel like the crisis in 2008


showed the limits of what they regard as excessive Anglo-Saxon


It shows he will not be a pushover when it comes


to the Brexit negotiations, not only for the City


of London itself, but the UK economy as a whole.


Others thought he would be more friendly to the UK. He does not


dislike the Brits. He is a good-natured chap, easy going bust


up in some ways he will be similar to David Davis, focusing on the big


picture, ignoring the details are known what he wants at the start of


the negotiation. The appointment showed there was something of a turf


war in Brussels over who should take the lead in negotiating Brexit. The


commission who appointed him believes it should be in charge of


the negotiations in its role as EU Executive and guardian of the


treaty. The European Council, representing European heads of state


and government believes it should be in the lead. While they were


jostling for position in Brussels, in the US, Liam Fox was putting


flesh on the bones of the UK's Brexit plan. Britain would leave the


EU customs union to allow it to negotiate free-trade deals across


the world. Theresa May cautiously endorsed this plan, though she did


make it clear she wants to keep her options open on British access to


the separate EU single market. We need to ensure we get the best


possible deal in relation to trade in goods and services. I am looking


at this with an open mind. I think we should be developing a model that


suits United Kingdom and the European Union. Not adopting a model


that is on the shelf already but saying, what will work for the UK


and what will work best for the European Union? Being in the customs


union could stop you from negotiating the sort of free trail


to use mooted by Liam Fox in the U S. -- free trade deals. Retaining


access to the single market would avoid nontariff barriers. The


unilateral imposition of regulations. No one has been allowed


access to the single market without accepting free movement of people.


One leading Brexiteer said the UK must leave both the customs union


and the single market to respect the will of the British people. I am on


the side of Liam Fox. I think we need to leave the customs union and


the single market. We are more than capable of standing on our own two


feet. We need to be able to make our own trade deals. That means out must


mean out. One former EU trade ingratiating fears if the UK adopts


hardball tactics it could face a hard Brexit, where we would fall


back on World Trade Organisation rules. He believes a change in UK


status could leave us at the mercy of unfriendly countries. Just to


show how ferociously complex all of this series, if the United Kingdom


to say they want to reset or change the terms of our commitments in the


world trade system within the WTO, there are 126 other countries. The


whole thing operates by consensus. One of which could basically block


the UK's new commitments within the World Trade Organisation if we pull


out of the EU. It is now working on a series of papers to highlight the


challenge of negotiations. We are moving, I feel, from the initial


panic, shock and surprise of the referendum decision to several weeks


of almost phoney peace, almost denial, about the consequences of


that decision. What we will move to after the holiday break and in


September, October, November, when we get the resumption of the season,


we will get into a lot of the nitty-gritty. The choice in the


referendum had seemed so straightforward. Leave to take back


control or remain to avoid economic risk. Making our way in the world


now all seems a lot more complicated.


I'm joined now in the studio by former Foreign Secretary


Malcolm Rifkind and from Philadelphia by Miriam Sapiro, who


served as a US Trade Representative and Director of European Affairs


on the US National Security Council.


Good evening to both of you. First of all, Malcolm Rifkind, let's talk


about Michelle -- Michel Bernier. He was the Europe Minister for France


when I was Foreign Secretary. He is a tough guy, European federalist by


background. Being French he also has a strong protectionist streak. He's


not keen on free trade and open borders. However, there is a very


important however. The real decisions are not going to be taken


either by him or by Liam Fox or David Davis. In our case, you'll be


taken by the Cabinet committee, chaired by Theresa May. She will lay


down and have more influence anyone else. In the European case, Angela


Merkel, President Francois Hollande, they will have a comparable role.


The commission does have the responsibility to find the right


individual but I'm sure that will have been discussed with others as


well. It is a marvellous parallels. Just as Theresa May decided it was


good to have three hardline Brexiteers to argue from the UK


point of view. They will have to compromise at some stage. From the


EU ends, they are perhaps deliberately appointing a pretty


strong European and sending a message by saying we're not going to


be a soft touch but he will have to compromise as well. You also,


extraordinarily, no Michel Bernier as well. What is your impression of


him? That's right. We did some negotiations together. Both sides


are no doubt trying to figure out how to portray the strongest


possible positions. I do not think that will be adopted here. I hope


they will each listen to the other side and tried to figure out a win -


win scenario for the UK and the rest of the world. I know you are having


to fight against the noise of the very excited democratic convention


with Barack Obama coming soon. Maybe I will get you to put your


microphone quite high up. You are also very much on Hillary Clinton's


economic team if she were to become US president. What do you think the


attitude would be to Britain? We know there has been an early rebus


for Liam Fox. What is the attitude towards doing a deal with the UK,


given that there is tough negotiations going on with the whole


of the US at the moment? The secretary is so focused right now on


the election. I do not know if you can hear me with the background


noise. She is totally focused on the campaign and winning the election


because the stakes are so high for the United States. We saw what brand


recently with Brexit when many voters woke up the next morning and


were not quite sure what was going on and what had happened. We are


hoping that will not be the situation here and voters will pay


attention now to what is at stake. You will remember that during the EU


referendum campaign, Barack Obama was enlisted as it were up by David


Cameron and came over to the UK and said, if there were a vote to leave,


Britain would go to the back of a cube in terms of a trade deal. Is


that just part of the US contribution to project fear? --


back of the queue. I think he was pointing out the difficulties


inherent with a vote to leave. He has been a strong Atlanticist, as


has the secretary, when she served as his representative. I think he


was honest in suggesting that the UK voters think twice about the


importance of this decision. I think now that the decision has been made,


and the Prime Minister has reiterated she is determined to see


what she can do to ensure there will be a strong UK no matter what, I


think it has changed in that there will have to be discussions between


the US and the UK as to what their future trade relationship could look


like. To think it could be a positive outcome for the UK in terms


of trade relationship with the US? I do think so. The whole issue is


terribly, but hated. It wouldn't be that hard to engage in -- envision a


trade agreement win the US and the UK done relatively quickly given


that both economies are already barely open. They both take an open


perspective on the lies a. They both have a strong advantage in services.


Malcolm Rifkind, it is all about the negotiation now. Do you agree that


actually Britain could have an advantageous position regarding the


US? It could. That is not the ultimate question at this stage. A


decision as we taken by the British government as to whether it wants to


have some kind of customs union because, if you have a customs


union, that means you have a common external tariff. Neither Britain nor


the EU can have separate trade deals with other countries. What does that


mean in terms of Liam Fox's hardline position coming like a greyhound out


of the tracks today? It is premature. The first decision that


have to be made is what with the United Kingdom government ideally


like? It is not just up to them. They then have to consider, is it at


all likely that the EU will give subversion compromises to make that


possible? You trigger Article 50 in 18 months, and in that 18 month


period, two years, we are trading our way and getting our position


out. At the same time, the UK is preparing to do the deals under FTA


or whatever it is. A lot of work has to be done on working not just on


what we would ideally like but one of the most probable outcomes of a


negotiation with the United States, for example, or with China or India,


and how that would compare with what we might get from the European


Union, given half our traders with them. You have Liam Fox and David


Davis, strong characters. Can Theresa May exert discipline?


Absolutely. Boris Johnson will not be as hardline as the other two. His


views are more nuanced as to whether we could have some sort of movement


of people into the UK from other European countries. The other two


will be more hardline. A decision on other taken by any individual but by


the Kavanagh and Theresa May will have the main influence.


Labour's summer civil war is being fought by two men trying


to out-left each other on the left of the party.


But today the challenger, Owen Smith, delivered


a speech in which he tried to steal a march on Jeremy Corbyn


by actually coming up with policies -


tax the rich, end the public sector pay freeze,


scrap the Department of Work and Pensions and pour


But wouldn't Jeremy Corbyn say the same?


Our Political Editor, Nick Watt, is here.


So he makes this speech today, and what happens? Owen Smith was here on


Monday night, and we asked him to put flesh on his ideas, so then he


went away and then his message was, I can be as radical as Jeremy


Corbyn, but more radical possibly, because I can actually deliver. So


you heard about those tax increases and a tax on wealth. He was casting


himself as a realistic revolutionary, unlike Jeremy Corbyn.


This is what he had to say. We need a revolution


but not some misty-eyed, romantic notion of a revolution,


where we are going to overthrow capitalism and return


to a socialist nirvana. But a cold-eyed, practical,


Socialist revolution. How did that go down? At one level,


Owen Smith is pursuing a sensible strategy. Jeremy Corbyn is admired


by the Labour grassroots, and Owen Smith knows that if he's going to


win, he's got to show that he's tacking to the left. But he has two


challenges - has he consistently been radical, and he was here the


other night talking about being in favour of choice in the NHS. And if


he has been radical since the day he was born in Wales, people might say,


why don't I vote for the real radical thing, Jeremy Corbyn? And he


did make a slip up today. He did. He was trying to say that he was the


true guardian and representative of workers' rights, and not Theresa


May. This is what he said. Theresa May even had the temerity,


I don't know if you saw it, at PMQs ten days ago, a week ago today


in fact, to lecture Labour. Lecturing Labour on social injustice


or insecurity at work. I'll be honest with you,


it pains me that we didn't have the strength, the power


and the vitality, to smash her back on her heels and argue that these


are our values. Well, as Labour fight amongst


themselves, what about the people who used to be regarded


as their core support? At the time of the Brexit vote,


Nicolas Blakemore went to Burnley to talk to people there about how


they view the political revolution Mr Corbyn has refused to step down


since losing the support of most Len McCluskey accused those trying


to remove Jeremy Corbyn I voted Labour because


my parents voted Labour, And I think they did used to be


for the working class. Nigel Farage wants what's best


for this country first, We have to take so many in,


refugees. I feel sorry for them,


I really, honestly do, but what about when you go


to Manchester on a night out and all them people


sat there homeless? They've got tents, haven't they,


not far from Piccadilly? I think there's some foreign people


who have come to this country These foreign people come in,


because they've been let in. They get shopping vouchers


to get their shopping. They get priority over anything


that we get, and even when they're working,


they still get benefits If you've put that


through on the 10th, The Tories have really,


really gone to town. We've actually got food banks around


here, and people who What do you think about


Jeremy Corbyn? So he is the current Leader


of the Labour Party. To be honest, I don't know


much about him at all. Since he was in power,


I've absolutely taken no notice of the Labour Party whatsoever,


because he were just a joke, really. He did numerous things,


that there was the issue and he was calling the woman


bigoted and whatnot. And I think that lost Labour


a lot of votes. I always voted Labour


because my mum and dad did, and my grandparents did,


so I just followed suit. I feel like Labour are just


bothered about Labour. So the council are all happy


and well paid and looked after, I think they are just


like the rest of the parties now. They don't seem to bother


about the working class. I've just been watching


the news, just now, talking about Jeremy Corbyn not even,


possibly not even being able I don't actually listen to them


any more, to be honest. I don't support Jeremy Corbyn,


but, to me, it looks a bit like a stitch up,


rather than a Parliamentary party. Who's going to be the Leader


of the Labour Party? And when will they


find out? It will probably be on the news


tomorrow, and then we will see When I was young, we had


mining and cotton mills and everything around here,


loads of factories. You've spoken about what jobs used


to be available in Burnley, but now anybody around my age who's


not gone through the education system basically


is looking at agency work. It's like the modern day lining up


at the Liverpool Docks to get picked for a day's work,


is agency work. When I left school, I was 15,


and I had a job at a sewing place And I were only there for a morning


and they were asking me, And I walked out of there,


went and had an interview somewhere else, and started


another job the day after. Now, you're struggling to get a job,


and if you do get one, you've to stick at it


whether you like it or you don't. The Labour Party say


that they want to address this These people don't live


in the real world. These people are in a career


of politics. And you're seeing the game now


with the Labour Party, They're just showing theirself


for what they actually are, Well, joining me now is Kate Green,


the Labour MP who is chairing Good evening. You heard that view


from Burnley. People don't know who Jeremy Corbyn is, much less Owen


Smith. And that goes back a decade. Isn't the problem that you've taken


people for granted so long, they are just going to go to Ukip? I think


people are very angry, very fearful, very worried about the future for


themselves and their families. That over very powerfully in the


conversations we've just been listening to. But it's also


important to realise that we've got to be honest about what can be done,


and the lies that people were being told during the referendum campaign


about money being available for the NHS, for example, that were not


true, and the proven not to be true, are going to make them further


disillusioned and disbelieving in politics. Today, Owen Smith made 20


policy pledges. They were on the economy, on taxation... What are


they going to cost? More money for the NHS, ending public sector pay


freeze... Where is the cost? It's important to understand not just how


much they're going to cost, but how they will be paid for. That goes to


the heart of what Owen was saying this morning, about our country


having become very an equal. We are one of the richest countries in the


world, but the money is concentrated in the hands of the very small


number of people. Owen talk today about a wealth tax that would enable


us to put money into the NHS. 20 billion. You will get that from a


wealth tax? I don't think we are saying it is possible to put our


country back on its feet and regenerate the communities we just


been seeing in Burnley without understanding the money that is


concentrated in the hands of wealthier people and organisations


needs to be distributed, but also, Owen has talked about an investment


programme, funded by borrowing, buy government bonds, to get our


communities back on their feet. Listening to people in Burnley


there, one of the big issues for people was immigration. Owen was


very critical of Jeremy Corbyn, saying he did not address


immigration properly. This was his first policy speech, and not a word


about immigration. Why not? Different communities have different


experiences of immigration. But this was a speech to the nation saying


why people should vote for him on the left and not Jeremy Corbyn, and


he didn't mention immigration, having criticised Jeremy Corbyn for


not doing it. People in Burnley are feeling about the pressure on their


public services. They are worried about immigration! They are talking


about immigration, but they are worried about a deeper sense of


insecurity for themselves, about jobs not being available. We heard


them talking about the council not looking after the local area. So


people do talk about immigration, at the deeper worry they feel is


because of the inequality in this country, which leaves them feeling


shut out of our prosperity. You've heard them saying what they think,


and you say, what they really feel is. Isn't that the problems? People


are saying that Labour are not listening to them and feeling their


pain, they are career politicians. You didn't talk about welfare, just


lots more money for the economy, and yet nothing chimes with people


because they don't believe you. I am sure Owen will talk about more


issues during this campaign. If an communities have different


experiences of immigration. Some communities are accustomed to many


new arrivals coming in among them, hats seasonal work, hats over many


decades where there have been new communities arriving. Others do not


have that experience. It is very important that we listen to what


people are saying... This is not about the 600,000. It is the 11


million you will have two attractive the ballot box. You will have to


attract people who are voting Tory now. The single thing that separates


Owen Smith from Jeremy Corbyn that people would actually vote for.


People are frightened and worried in my constituency, feeling insecure


about jobs, public services and the NHS. Owen talked about those things


today. But the prospectus that Owen Smith is putting out today is no


different from Jeremy Corbyn's it was regarded as being toxic a year


ago. It looks like Owen Smith wants to out left Jeremy Corbyn. Why did


he not vote for Jeremy Corbyn a year ago? It is not a question of whether


they share values, because I think they do. It is about whether they


have tangible solutions and concrete proposals to put these ideas and


values into practice. It's important to say that this country isn't at


ease with itself. People are worried. They feel divided. They


feel a lack of confidence in the future. Owen's belief to address


that is to invest in our communities and our people, and that is what


voters want to hear. Thank you. Now to the Democrat convention


in Philadelpia, where a pumped-up crowd are waiting for


President Obama. The milestone marked


by Hillary Clinton in this hall last night is a moment of history -


albeit one that seems - to many in the rest of the world -


to have taken a long time coming. She reached her delegate


count when South Dakota But the jaw-dropping moment


of the night came when her arch-rival Bernie Sanders appeared


in the hall to declare the end of the counting


and nominate her himself - a move that matched her own


concession eight years Words, then and now,


which speak volumes The convention here has been


a tightly choreographed affair - with little mention


of her Republican rival. But today, Trump himself muscled in,


calling on Russia to hack Clinton's e-mails - a controversy


which still raises questions This is the sound that Hillary's


oft-quoted glass ceiling makes I am sensing this is


the greatest thing that has Each state taking a lyrical


moment in the sun to offer Their bigotry is tired,


their attacks are uninspired. So, Mike Pence and Donald Trump,


you are officially fired. I moved that the convention suspend


the procedural rules... In the end, the counting though


was brought to a swift close This is the moment we've all been


waiting for at convention. Bernie Sanders hinted earlier today


he wouldn't be the one nominating He's taken to the floor as a show


of endorsement to encourage all his supporters to fall


in line behind him. Governor of New York Andrew Cuomo


had spent time earlier with Sanders, I had him with me this morning


and we were chatting. I knew he was working very hard


to unify the convention. He had to get his delegates


to agree. Sometimes, the delegates can get


so fired up about something that even when the leader says,


we're going left, That evening, her husband,


Bill Clinton, tried to show the Hillary he'd long known,


talking of challenges she'd faced without explicitly stating his part


in creating some of them. One of her oldest friends,


Lanny Davis, knew her I first met Hillary when her last


name was Rodham, before So, over all those yeras,


there have been ups and downs. She has always struggled and fought


and never given up, been knocked As a woman, women are accustomed to


that a lot. She's never given up as long


as I've known her. Did you ever doubt she would get to


this point? The first five minutes I met her,


I thought to myself, after saying goodbye,


it was the first day I've just met the first female


President of the United States. Make no mistake, this electoral


circus has only just begun. Today, Donald Trump endeavoured


to exploit Clinton's electoral vulnerability,


encouraging Russia to What does Jerry Springer,


a man who's made a day job This is the first time in American


history we've ever had someone running for president who is opposed


to the idea of America. The whole concept of America


is the Statue of Liberty. Now, all of a sudden,


we have someone who wants, in a sense, to replace


it by building a wall, That is so un-American,


it's embarrassing. He won the Republican Primaries,


he did not yet face Now, if I'm wrong, he'll run this


state come November but I think in November the American people


won't vote for Donald Well, joining me is Xavier Becerra,


Chair of the Democratic Caucus Very nice of you to join us. I want


to start with those comments by Donald Trump, calling on Russia to


expose -- expose Hillary Clinton's thing e-mails. I have never seen a


candidate or nominee for president engaging in criminal activity,


hacking cyber crimes and do it for an American company. It is another


sign how Donald Trump is not fit to be president or commander-in-chief.


That message was not really to Putin, it was to the American


people. He knows this carries weight, the whole issue of


trustworthiness will be hard. If you want to communicate something, do it


the right way. Do not break the laws. It is very dangerous. He has


made many dangerous statements. This is just another. The recent action


of abandoning Nato was another reckless thing done by Donald Trump.


There have been another of other dangerous statements made. At some


point, one should become president, you are going to be shooting with


live bullets. The worry for people now is, people may just decide to


stay at home. If they do not like what they are hearing from either


side. You look at this crowd you look at the energy which has been


here. That is not this crowd. It will be the start of the actual


election campaign. This is where it begins. You always have the forward


guard. They are the events team. They are die-hard supporters. They


get out there and others start to pay attention. Before you know it,


people realise this is real. We have a guy who is telling Russia to


engage in cyber crimes in the US. It is real. I was a little worried


about what was happening in Great Britain recently with the Brexit


vote, I have confidence in America. People will vote for the best


interests of this country. What do you do to reach people, for example,


the Hispanic vote, he might choose not to bother? Let them realise you


are not just an image on the street. It is important because there is


cynicism to the end. We get it back and we do not understand. We do not


understand how people would hack our system. We have to connect again.


Thank you very much indeed. Hillary Clinton is a very clever operator.


Clearly working out the people she needs to breach now are Hispanics,


rather than appointing Bernie Sanders. She knows in the end you


will probably get their support anyway. Probably.


Thank you, Amelie. The Daily Telegraph, working in an office is


as bad as smoking. Daily Express puts a picture of Michel Barnier on


the front page. The UK economy begins to feel the Brexit tremors.


An attack about Clinton e-mails in the Guardian. The serious business


Brexit and two recent may joins a light moment with the counterpart.


The big story in the Times. Scientists create the first drug to


halt Alzheimer's disease. That is almost it for tonight. If you have


had not enough disturbing news for this month, look away now. The


Siberian Times reports that scientists are finding jelly holes,


large bubbles containing the greenhouse super gas, methane. They


are performing above the Arctic tundra. It is not known if climate


change is the cause but hundreds, if not thousands of gigatons of the gas


light frozen in the permafrost. Look at this and sleep well.


Some rain and sunshine. A bright start across eastern counties. That


rain will arrive later on in the day. It will stay damp for much of


the day across Northern Ireland and southern Scotland and it will


consequently be quite cool. Chance of showers in the far north. Damp


and dreary in the north of England.


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