26/07/2016 Newsnight


26/07/2016

With Kirsty Wark. IS claim another murder in France and the Democratic convention in Philadelphia is in full swing. Plus negative interest rates and what Brexit means for science.


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IS reaches into rural France to deliver yet

:00:00.:00:08.

another act of barbarism, this time inside a church.

:00:09.:00:14.

President Hollande says the threat to France has never been so severe,

:00:15.:00:18.

while the people of the small Normandy town struggle to absorb

:00:19.:00:21.

TRANSLATION: He was a simple man, he was always at people's service.

:00:22.:00:26.

He could have taken a quiet retirement but he preferred to stay

:00:27.:00:30.

active as long as he was in good health.

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He preferred to stay active and serve his parish.

:00:33.:00:38.

I am in Ansbach in Bavaria where a Syrian refugee claiming to act on

:00:39.:00:45.

behalf of Islamic State blew himself up at the weekend.

:00:46.:00:48.

But how much can the state do to protect its citizens,

:00:49.:00:50.

and at the same time preserve freedom?

:00:51.:00:52.

Tonight, Bernie Sanders offers emphatic support to Clinton but do

:00:53.:01:03.

his actions match his words? We ask how Hillary can take the message to

:01:04.:01:06.

the country when she remains unpopular with so many.

:01:07.:01:08.

She recognises how sharply divided the party is now

:01:09.:01:10.

She would promote Bernie Sanders to be nominated from the floor

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If you had a Clinton-Sanders ticket, I think

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that would do a lot to heal the party.

:01:21.:01:22.

Also tonight, what happens when interests plummet to less than zero?

:01:23.:01:25.

We've already seen in Japan and Germany the sale

:01:26.:01:29.

What would that mean to the confidence of the banking

:01:30.:01:32.

system if people started leaving their money in safes,

:01:33.:01:34.

A new horror was visited on France today when two terrorists,

:01:35.:01:52.

claimed by IS, entered a church in a small town

:01:53.:01:58.

in Normandy during Mass and murdered an 84-year-old priest

:01:59.:02:00.

and critically injured one of the three worshippers before

:02:01.:02:02.

being killed by French police outside the church.

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One of the attackers was under close surveillance, on probation,

:02:07.:02:08.

and wearing an electronic tag after two failed attempts

:02:09.:02:11.

President Hollande, who arrived swiftly at the scene,

:02:12.:02:14.

said it was one more sign that France was at war with

:02:15.:02:16.

It's another act of barbarism so soon after the Nice massacre

:02:17.:02:26.

and in Germany, the vicious attacks in Wuerzburg

:02:27.:02:28.

and Ansbach, all brutal, unsophisticated attacks designed

:02:29.:02:30.

The premier of Bavaria said officials had to do whatever

:02:31.:02:35.

was necessary to protect citizens, and the French President

:02:36.:02:37.

says we must protect citizens "by all means."

:02:38.:02:40.

But what are the limits of the state in modern democracies?

:02:41.:02:42.

We'll be discussing that in a moment, and reporting

:02:43.:02:46.

from Bavaria, but first, Secunder Karmani is in the small

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For those in Rouen Cathedral attending a Mass in honour

:02:49.:02:57.

of Father Jacques Hamel, there must have been

:02:58.:02:59.

Yet another IS-related attack in France.

:03:00.:03:04.

If young people were targeted in Paris, families in Nice,

:03:05.:03:10.

today's victim, an 84-year-old old priest, represented yet another

:03:11.:03:12.

The priest who normally works in the church that was attacked

:03:13.:03:23.

said the murdered man was only there as he was away on holiday.

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TRANSLATION: I've spoken to a few people, notably some of the sisters

:03:29.:03:31.

I don't know how we are going to get through the next few hours.

:03:32.:03:43.

He was a simple man, always at people's service.

:03:44.:03:45.

He was 85 and could have taken a quiet retirement but he preferred

:03:46.:03:49.

to stay active as long as he was in good health.

:03:50.:03:51.

He preferred to stay active and serve his parish.

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The two attackers burst into this church this morning,

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taking the priest and a handful of nuns and parishioners prisoner.

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They slit the throat of the priest and recorded it on camera.

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One of the nuns, speaking to French media, described what she saw.

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Both attackers were killed quickly by police as they emerged

:04:30.:04:33.

from the church, but there will be questions for the security services.

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French authorities have already faced severe criticism

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A damning report about security failings in the lead up

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to the Paris attacks, an alleged lack of police on duty

:04:46.:04:51.

in Nice and today it has emerged that at least one of the attackers

:04:52.:04:54.

who struck here was very much on the authorities' radar.

:04:55.:04:57.

Having tried and failed to get to Syria, he was on a curfew

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At the Cathedral today, some felt there was little that

:05:01.:05:05.

could ever be done to protect such soft targets.

:05:06.:05:10.

Nobody thought it would ever be attacked so, yes,

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you see the army in the street every day, in small groups, but you can't

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But amongst some in France there is real anger at the continuing

:05:25.:05:31.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls was booed as he attended a minute's

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silence for the victims in Nice two weeks ago.

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He had suggested that terrorism was becoming a modern reality France

:05:42.:05:44.

As always after an attack, there are prayers for the dead

:05:45.:05:50.

Could more have been done to prevent the bloodshed?

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Were those responsible directed by IS or just inspired by them?

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Perhaps the biggest question in France right now is how on earth

:06:04.:06:06.

does the country stop what appears to be an almost relentless

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TRANSLATION: We are attached to the bitty but in situations like this

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people who have nothing to hide have nothing to worry about. You can't

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say this is a risk. The state has to take all the Ms is possible to bring

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back security and protect citizens two all the measures possible. --

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all the measures possible. Following the attacks in Paris

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in November there were over 3500 raids as part of the state

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of emergency that was imposed. They were criticised by some

:06:43.:06:44.

for being too harsh. And there are some calls

:06:45.:06:47.

for the authorities not to go TRANSLATION: The response to

:06:48.:06:56.

violence is never violence, the response must be reasoned, we need

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to think long-term and understand people's motivations. Right now we

:07:00.:07:02.

are completely out of our depth. This afternoon, one person

:07:03.:07:05.

was arrested in connection One of the victims is

:07:06.:07:07.

still in hospital. But the French president has

:07:08.:07:13.

had to visit the scene He said that IS had

:07:14.:07:15.

declared war on France. Now the pressure on him

:07:16.:07:18.

to respond is growing. What is the latest on the

:07:19.:07:34.

investigation? In the last few hours, the French public prosecutor

:07:35.:07:39.

has been talking and the authorities have formally identified one of the

:07:40.:07:43.

two attackers as a 19-year-old man who lived close to the scene of the

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attack, Adel Kermiche and he was well-known to the authorities,

:07:50.:07:52.

having been arrested on two occasions trying to get to Syria. He

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spent some time in jail here and was released with an electronic tag and

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he is also a kind of terrorism watchlist which thousands of people

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are on. There will be questions about the level of surveillance he

:08:09.:08:13.

was on as part of being on the list. One imagines over the next few days

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there will be calls for tougher treatment of the people on the list,

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even though many of them have never been convicted of any crime and that

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gets to the heart of the dilemma that France and much of Europe is

:08:26.:08:29.

in, where you draw the boundary between security and liberty.

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Another thing to add about the investigation, a key line that the

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authorities will try and pursue, were the attackers linked directly

:08:40.:08:43.

to people in Syria? There are reports that Adel Kermiche was close

:08:44.:08:47.

friends with a particularly well-known French jihadi from this

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region who went to Syria and appeared in a number of videos. We

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will seek if he inspired this attack. We know that the attackers

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filmed the murder that they committed. Thank you for joining us.

:09:04.:09:07.

The Normany murder follows closely on from a spate of attacks

:09:08.:09:09.

in the last eight days in Germany which have left 15 people dead,

:09:10.:09:13.

including four attackers, and dozens injured.

:09:14.:09:16.

German officials say two attackers had links

:09:17.:09:18.

Bavaria's state premier, a long-standing critic

:09:19.:09:23.

of Angela Merkel's open door refugee policy, said it was time to up

:09:24.:09:26.

It was in Bavaria, on Sunday, in Ansbach, that a suicide bombing

:09:27.:09:32.

near a music festival wounded 15 people.

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What more do we know? Well, we are learning, on the official Islamic

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State weekly newspaper this evening they are making some very

:09:51.:09:54.

interesting claims about the man, named as Mohammad D, who blew

:09:55.:10:02.

himself up just behind me. They say that he was a member of Al-Qaeda in

:10:03.:10:06.

Iraq as far back as 2011 and that he fought with various Jihadist groups

:10:07.:10:11.

on the front lines around Aleppo, that he was wounded and sought

:10:12.:10:15.

treatment in Europe and that there was direct communication with him in

:10:16.:10:19.

the days running up to the attack. There was a lot of scepticism about

:10:20.:10:24.

that here on the streets of Ansbach Forster people pointing to the fact

:10:25.:10:29.

that he sought treatment for mental health issues, that he had

:10:30.:10:32.

apparently twice tried to take his own life previously. At least two

:10:33.:10:38.

people I spoke to said that he didn't seem very religious, they saw

:10:39.:10:42.

him at the mosque only once even though he lived here for two years

:10:43.:10:46.

and he didn't observe Ramadan. But he was about to be deported when he

:10:47.:10:53.

blew himself up and he left a message pledging himself to the

:10:54.:10:56.

leader of Islamic State. We know that the Bavarian premier has been

:10:57.:11:02.

speaking but what is the mood in Germany? Up until last week, Germany

:11:03.:11:10.

had largely escaped the kind of scenes that we've heard about in

:11:11.:11:14.

France and scene in Ofgem, the kind of scenes we saw in Britain on July

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seven, even though they have taken in more than 1 million refugees.

:11:20.:11:25.

Things have been calm. Four attacks has changed that a lot -- and in

:11:26.:11:33.

Belgium. The attacks may not be connected to any jihad, one may be

:11:34.:11:37.

linked to the far right but that is falling to the wayside in the public

:11:38.:11:45.

awareness. The kind of welcoming culture we saw with such

:11:46.:11:47.

extraordinary scenes last summer with people carrying water and food

:11:48.:11:54.

for the incoming refugees, that seems to be changing. Angela

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Merkel's popularity ratings are falling, under pressure from members

:12:00.:12:03.

of her own coalition who say that the open borders policy must stop.

:12:04.:12:04.

Thank you for joining us. IS was quick to claim

:12:05.:12:11.

today's attack in France. Are the recent attacks a coordinated

:12:12.:12:13.

series aimed at destabilising the fabric of Western society

:12:14.:12:17.

or random acts of extreme violence? Is this the start of some awful

:12:18.:12:20.

new chapter of political violence You don't have to delve very deep

:12:21.:12:25.

to see that killers using knives, axes or vehicles are extremely hard

:12:26.:12:35.

to detect ahead of time, But some of these acts,

:12:36.:12:38.

at least, are part of a new wave It's different to the threat we sort

:12:39.:12:44.

of previously experienced with Al-Qaeda, precisely

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because the strategy has changed, the move towards low-grade terrorism

:12:50.:12:55.

insofar as it is not sophisticated, so everyday, ordinary objects,

:12:56.:12:58.

a car, all these sorts of things are being used now to kill people

:12:59.:13:03.

in politically symbolic ways that still affects us and resonates very

:13:04.:13:07.

profoundly with our societies, but it's materially different

:13:08.:13:10.

to something like the scale and sophistication of September

:13:11.:13:15.

11th, the Madrid bombings, or 7/7. Faced with this threat,

:13:16.:13:21.

police called to the scene, as today, have to take decisions

:13:22.:13:26.

immediately with a high probability Well, certainly, what we've seen,

:13:27.:13:29.

not just in France and Germany, but in events that have

:13:30.:13:36.

taken place elsewhere, so for example in Ottawa

:13:37.:13:38.

and in Sydney, is a terrorist threat that manifests itself with the aim

:13:39.:13:41.

that the assailants are not planning And therefore what the police need

:13:42.:13:44.

to do is to assess very quickly the threat that is posed,

:13:45.:13:52.

the risks that are there, and to select the appropriate

:13:53.:13:54.

tactical option, which more often than not in cases of late requires

:13:55.:13:59.

a very swift response IS has claimed today's attack,

:14:00.:14:02.

but is that just a cynical ploy? Some recent claims, like Nice,

:14:03.:14:10.

have taken more than 24 hours, leading some to suppose that

:14:11.:14:13.

Islamic State is simply taking But in several instances,

:14:14.:14:16.

there have been signs We don't live in a police state,

:14:17.:14:23.

thankfully, and there isn't a policeman on every single corner

:14:24.:14:27.

keeping tabs on every single Nevertheless, the measures

:14:28.:14:30.

that we do have in the United Kingdom are such to keep

:14:31.:14:36.

abreast of what's taking place in order to allocate resources

:14:37.:14:40.

at the correct time to threats Does that mean that every single

:14:41.:14:42.

incident can be prevented? The aspiration is to aim for that,

:14:43.:14:49.

that is what the security services want to achieve,

:14:50.:14:52.

but it can't necessarily Addressing France tonight,

:14:53.:14:55.

President Hollande told a nation shocked by recent events

:14:56.:15:01.

just how much was at stake. We the French people,

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let us make a block. That is how we will win the war

:15:06.:15:18.

against hatred and fanaticism. And I assure you,

:15:19.:15:21.

we will win this war. Long live the Republic,

:15:22.:15:25.

long live France. With the ongoing wave of violence,

:15:26.:15:28.

President Hollande has seen the far right surge in the polls

:15:29.:15:33.

and his own ratings slump. And as it carries on,

:15:34.:15:40.

there is a very real possibility that the government might be changed

:15:41.:15:43.

in France, or even Germany, by this wave of Islamic State

:15:44.:15:46.

inspired violence - something their supporters

:15:47.:15:53.

could regard as a major coup. With further raids under way in that

:15:54.:15:55.

France tonight, those involved in counterterrorism expect

:15:56.:15:58.

a long and difficult summer. With me now is Shami Chakrabarti,

:15:59.:16:07.

the former director of Liberty a former director of global

:16:08.:16:10.

counter-terrorism for MI6. There can be no softer target than a

:16:11.:16:27.

church with a priest, two nuns and other worshippers. This series of

:16:28.:16:34.

soft targets in France and now in Germany, IS will use these to

:16:35.:16:38.

destabilise, whether aren't they were the instigators. Absolutely, IS

:16:39.:16:43.

will take advantage of anything that happens, and of course our own

:16:44.:16:47.

reaction is to assume that it is IS as well, because they have been

:16:48.:16:50.

quite successful at that. When you think of the soft target in any

:16:51.:16:56.

country, or any country that might be the target of IS, it is very hard

:16:57.:17:00.

to know what you should do to protect them. The contract between

:17:01.:17:04.

the state and the citizen is that the state will try to keep the

:17:05.:17:09.

Citizen safe while giving them freedoms, but as Sarkozy was saying,

:17:10.:17:15.

is that possible when the enemy has no taboos, no limits, no borders?

:17:16.:17:19.

Are we going to have to change the way we look at security? I would say

:17:20.:17:24.

quite the reverse, because the whole point of IS is to undermine the

:17:25.:17:29.

cohesion of society, to a road human rights and the observance of human

:17:30.:17:33.

rights and so on, and to make people feel that they are being

:17:34.:17:36.

discriminated against and that the governments they live and not doing

:17:37.:17:41.

a good job of looking out the them. So I think, actually, as was said

:17:42.:17:45.

famously after the Anders Breivik attacks, what we need is more

:17:46.:17:50.

democracy, not less. When people are murdered, we do not expect the state

:17:51.:17:54.

to stop every murder, but do we expect the state to stop every act

:17:55.:17:59.

of terrorism? Or is Manuel Valls right, you have to live with it?

:18:00.:18:04.

Well, we all live with risk in our lives, but Richard is so right, the

:18:05.:18:09.

point about terrorism is that it provokes to get a reaction, so if

:18:10.:18:14.

for example Angela Merkel had been a stabilising influence on the

:18:15.:18:18.

continent of Europe, then that has to be undermined. Now, we have seen

:18:19.:18:24.

so many horrors in recent times, including, by the way, the murder of

:18:25.:18:27.

an MP on our own streets, and I suspect that if the alleged

:18:28.:18:32.

perpetrator had been of a different race, we would have been discussing

:18:33.:18:35.

whether that could have been claimed by them. What I suspect is going on,

:18:36.:18:42.

of course, some of these incidents are orchestrated, some are inspired,

:18:43.:18:45.

and some are claimed after the event, regardless of what happened.

:18:46.:18:50.

And in a sense, we have to deal with risk, we have to deal with our own

:18:51.:18:54.

fears, and we have to make sure we do not close down our society,

:18:55.:18:59.

because that is, I hate to keep saying this, that is what IS wants.

:19:00.:19:06.

But we do expect the state to have a certain degree of surveillance, a

:19:07.:19:13.

certain degree of security. As we know, after the Paris attacks,

:19:14.:19:16.

thousands were interviewed, and we know there was a failure of security

:19:17.:19:20.

today because one of the attackers had and Alec Trellick Tower on. One

:19:21.:19:26.

of the attackers had an electronic target, and that raises a question

:19:27.:19:29.

too about how many people you can put under total surveillance at

:19:30.:19:33.

anyone time. One of the things I suspect we have in common is that

:19:34.:19:37.

this idea of the wrist freezers I'd eat this the enemy of this book and

:19:38.:19:43.

the civil liberties Aryan. -- the risk free society is the enemy of

:19:44.:19:57.

the spook and the civil libertarian. But we expect our security servers

:19:58.:20:02.

to deliver for us, and there has to be a curtailing of certain freedoms.

:20:03.:20:09.

Well, I am not sure, you know, that has to be put to the public test, as

:20:10.:20:14.

to how much freedom they would like curtailed, but you are right, the

:20:15.:20:18.

problem of looking at everybody who could possibly be a future

:20:19.:20:22.

perpetrator of a terrorist crime is amazing. In-lap Roz, for example,

:20:23.:20:29.

300 people who have come back from Iraq, Syria, another 800 have been

:20:30.:20:33.

stopped, that is already 1100 people. -- in France. We have to

:20:34.:20:40.

keep these things in proportion. We have an idea that we can completely

:20:41.:20:44.

eliminate the threat from terrorism, but we do not regard any other crime

:20:45.:20:50.

in that way. But does behaviour have to change? I mean, the behaviours of

:20:51.:20:55.

children in schools,, you know, duck and cover for the nuclear threat, do

:20:56.:21:00.

we have to be more aware of terrorism? I do not think it is

:21:01.:21:05.

about dark and cover, but we need to reflect, we had an opportunity after

:21:06.:21:10.

9/11 and again after 7/7, and now we have a similar opportunity in France

:21:11.:21:16.

and Germany, and I hope they go the way that Norway went after Breivik.

:21:17.:21:22.

Yes, we need a mortgage and society, but we need a stronger civil

:21:23.:21:27.

society, we need a vigil is in communities. But how do you maintain

:21:28.:21:34.

a cohesive society? We know things are changing in Germany, even in the

:21:35.:21:39.

last the weeks, as you know, Gabriel Gatehouse was saying, the wonderful

:21:40.:21:44.

welcome that refugees had. How do keep society cohesive when there is

:21:45.:21:50.

a lot of division? Well, as he said, over 1 million refugees now in

:21:51.:21:54.

Germany, how many refugees have been arrested on terrorism charges? I

:21:55.:21:58.

should imagine less than five, a tiny percentage. So we are

:21:59.:22:03.

extrapolated from this security threat into, you know, anxiety about

:22:04.:22:10.

immigrants. If I was Isis, I would be thinking about positively

:22:11.:22:13.

undermining Angela Merkel's policy on refugees right now, because it is

:22:14.:22:19.

about alienation and injustice, and that is how you recruit terrorists.

:22:20.:22:23.

I just want to change the subject, because there were reports that you

:22:24.:22:27.

had refused a peerage. Rather than asking that, is there a peerage in

:22:28.:22:32.

the offing? That is being discussed, a Labour peerage. I don't know, are

:22:33.:22:42.

you going to take onto my I haven't been offered one, have you? Many

:22:43.:22:43.

times! Thank you very much indeed. The Democrat Convention

:22:44.:22:45.

in the City of Brotherly Love Last night, Michelle Obama raised

:22:46.:22:47.

the roof in Philadelphia with a passionate speech in praise

:22:48.:22:51.

of Hillary Clinton, and later tonight, Bill Clinton

:22:52.:22:53.

will take to the stage. But there's a lot of unease

:22:54.:22:56.

about poor poll showings and the convention

:22:57.:22:58.

has had a rocky start. All that is true, but tonight

:22:59.:23:10.

America stands on the edge of history, a major political party is

:23:11.:23:14.

about to another date a woman for president for the first time ever.

:23:15.:23:19.

The roll call going on behind me, noisy and emotional, as the states

:23:20.:23:25.

and the delegates take their turn one by one. Well, the Pap for

:23:26.:23:28.

Hillary Clinton has been far from smooth. As you said, last night

:23:29.:23:33.

Democratic rival Bernie Sanders took to the stage to endorse her,

:23:34.:23:38.

wholeheartedly, and to ask his supporters to do the same. But it is

:23:39.:23:43.

a problem that stands, do his actions actually belie his words?

:23:44.:23:48.

And how does a character so divisive and so unpopular as Hillary Clinton,

:23:49.:23:54.

going into this Convention on favourability ratings of minus 22,

:23:55.:23:55.

bring her country round? # You must rejoice,

:23:56.:23:58.

there is no choice The Late Show at convention

:23:59.:24:03.

is virtually required viewing Stephen Colbert channelling

:24:04.:24:13.

the hipster Sandista Death, taxes and Hillary -

:24:14.:24:16.

she's made to seem inevitable. And inevitability, as we all know,

:24:17.:24:28.

is rarely that sexy. And Tim Kaine!

:24:29.:24:30.

LAUGHTER. Hillary Clinton will make

:24:31.:24:33.

an outstanding president, and I am proud to stand

:24:34.:24:36.

with her tonight! gave the strongest endorsement

:24:37.:24:40.

he could of Clinton. A confused response from the hall,

:24:41.:24:46.

though - some cheers, some boos,

:24:47.:24:49.

and chanting. And the Hillary campaign team,

:24:50.:24:55.

led by John Podesta, who was also her husband

:24:56.:24:58.

Bill Clinton's chief of staff, The really big problem

:24:59.:25:01.

for the party is the unpopularity

:25:02.:25:06.

of both main candidates now, Look, I think we are

:25:07.:25:08.

going to work, and this convention will succeed

:25:09.:25:11.

in putting forward not only a platform

:25:12.:25:16.

and a set of ideas but show Hillary Clinton

:25:17.:25:19.

and Tim Kaine as people who've devoted their life to helping

:25:20.:25:26.

working people, to lifting them up, and we'll see a lot of that

:25:27.:25:30.

through the voices of real people Others, like former presidential

:25:31.:25:33.

candidate Dennis Kucinich, called for more radical action

:25:34.:25:38.

from her Hillary Clinton, if she

:25:39.:25:41.

recognised how sharply divided the party is right now

:25:42.:25:47.

because of the DNC scandal, she would permit Bernie Sanders

:25:48.:25:50.

to be nominated from the floor If you had a Clinton-Sanders

:25:51.:25:53.

ticket, I think that would do a lot to heal the party and give it

:25:54.:25:59.

a strong chance in November. You're actually saying

:26:00.:26:02.

she should get rid of Kaine now. Not get rid of him, no, it's not

:26:03.:26:04.

about getting rid of anybody. It's about realising

:26:05.:26:07.

that something happened here that is profoundly adverse

:26:08.:26:10.

to what the Democratic Party is supposed to believe in,

:26:11.:26:13.

and so how do you heal that? You can't just let it stand,

:26:14.:26:18.

it's got to be addressed, and the easiest way to address it

:26:19.:26:20.

is to say, and the one way to do that is to

:26:21.:26:23.

say, "Bernie, come on board." Despite emphatic words of support

:26:24.:26:31.

from Bernie Sanders last night, here is the curious thing -

:26:32.:26:34.

the Vermont Senator has never officially

:26:35.:26:37.

suspended his own campaign, and this morning he announced he

:26:38.:26:39.

wouldn't be fundraising for Clinton, telling his supporters

:26:40.:26:42.

the political revolution goes on. And one of those opening the

:26:43.:26:48.

convention here onstage explains it, telling me this is essentially

:26:49.:26:51.

the first time the Hillary-Sanders

:26:52.:26:54.

campaigns have met. as two campaigns

:26:55.:26:55.

who have fought each other. We'll go out of here as one

:26:56.:26:59.

effort to defeat Donald Trump and hold on to the White House

:27:00.:27:02.

this fall. Are you sure?

:27:03.:27:04.

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. First of all, the majority

:27:05.:27:06.

of our folks are already there, and the rest, every day, are coming

:27:07.:27:08.

to understand just how quickly we've been moving this party

:27:09.:27:11.

in a progressive direction. A month ago, we had

:27:12.:27:19.

a milquetoast platform. Today, we have the most progressive

:27:20.:27:22.

in the party's history. It's because of the work

:27:23.:27:24.

of our revolution. This is a weird cocoon,

:27:25.:27:27.

he explains - "We come in one animal,

:27:28.:27:29.

we go out another" - every breath Hillary Clinton

:27:30.:27:31.

has to spend uniting her own party is one lost talking

:27:32.:27:36.

to the swing voters she so desperately needs

:27:37.:27:39.

to win over. Well, Hillary Clinton need that

:27:40.:27:53.

magic number to cross the line. In the last few moments, we have just

:27:54.:27:57.

had the nomination from the oldest delegate, 102-year-old woman from

:27:58.:28:02.

Arizona, older than the suffrage movement itself. One of her closest

:28:03.:28:06.

confidants, who has known her for three decades, and her husband, is

:28:07.:28:11.

the Virginia governor Terry McAuliffe. He will be nominating her

:28:12.:28:16.

public on the stage in a moment. Just before we came on air, I spoke

:28:17.:28:18.

to him. Did Bernie Sanders

:28:19.:28:22.

do enough last night I think Bernie Sanders did more

:28:23.:28:24.

than anyone expected. He made it clear

:28:25.:28:27.

why he was in the race, and then at the end he said,

:28:28.:28:29.

"This is why we have to elect Hillary Clinton

:28:30.:28:32.

as the next president." So you had Michelle Obama,

:28:33.:28:34.

you had Elizabeth Warren, and then you, of course,

:28:35.:28:36.

had Senator Sanders. Yesterday, the Sanders folks,

:28:37.:28:38.

listen, they worked hard, I chaired Hillary's last campaign

:28:39.:28:40.

for president, They wanted to vent yesterday,

:28:41.:28:42.

they did that. Now we begin, we nominate her,

:28:43.:28:46.

we go on as one party. But do his actions

:28:47.:28:49.

support his words? He said today he wouldn't be

:28:50.:28:51.

fundraising for her. Well, that is OK, we don't

:28:52.:28:54.

need him to do fundraising. If he wants to help,

:28:55.:28:57.

it would be great, but he sent a text to

:28:58.:28:59.

everybody yesterday, he has told everybody, "Get in line,

:29:00.:29:01.

this is the right thing to do, we got to stop Donald Trump,

:29:02.:29:04.

we got to elect Hillary President." So, listen, this is hard,

:29:05.:29:08.

they came in close. As I said, I did it for Hillary,

:29:09.:29:11.

it is not easy, but this is the Democratic Party,

:29:12.:29:14.

we like to have our issues and discuss them, but now is the

:29:15.:29:16.

time, we move forward tonight. When we nominate her, and I'm proud,

:29:17.:29:19.

I get to walk on stage and announce the first female

:29:20.:29:23.

nominee in the history of the American political system,

:29:24.:29:25.

I'm pretty fired up. And you know how hard

:29:26.:29:28.

it is to sell her popularity around the country, why is that,

:29:29.:29:32.

and what has to happen now? I think the most important thing

:29:33.:29:35.

is we got to have a great convention,

:29:36.:29:37.

I thought yesterday was great. We obviously have Bill Clinton

:29:38.:29:39.

tonight, the President and Vice President tomorrow night,

:29:40.:29:42.

and then of course Hillary's speech and Tim Kaine's speech

:29:43.:29:45.

on Wednesday night. I think, once we finish

:29:46.:29:47.

this convention, everybody is going to know

:29:48.:29:49.

why we are running. what I thought was an embarrassment

:29:50.:29:52.

last week... I'm the ultimate optimist,

:29:53.:29:56.

but we had four days of tearing down America, America's

:29:57.:29:59.

miserable, America's losing. We're not, we're the

:30:00.:30:02.

greatest nation on earth. Can we be better?

:30:03.:30:04.

You bet we can! But people want to be uplifted,

:30:05.:30:06.

they won't hope. You got to compete on a global

:30:07.:30:08.

basis, not be a bunch of negative whiners,

:30:09.:30:11.

you want someone who is Do we have to see

:30:12.:30:13.

a different Hillary coming out of this

:30:14.:30:18.

convention, though? Does she need to be a different

:30:19.:30:24.

person going forward? she is the same Hillary that I have

:30:25.:30:27.

known for 36 years. You know, I talk about the times

:30:28.:30:33.

on vacation with her, playing with my kids in the pool

:30:34.:30:35.

I love Hillary Clinton, and you're going to see

:30:36.:30:38.

the Hillary Clinton Compassionate, I know her soul,

:30:39.:30:40.

she cares about people, she cares about children,

:30:41.:30:43.

and that's who she is. And you've worked very closely,

:30:44.:30:45.

of course, with Bill Clinton. Do you believe that he has been

:30:46.:30:48.

a help or a hindrance in terms of bringing on

:30:49.:30:51.

the women's vote? and I think tonight his speech

:30:52.:30:53.

will be spectacular. He's been campaigning

:30:54.:30:56.

all over the country, it's his wife who is going to be

:30:57.:30:58.

the next president, But I remind you, when

:30:59.:31:00.

Bill Clinton left office, he left with the second

:31:01.:31:08.

highest approval, of any second-term president

:31:09.:31:10.

in the history of America. Lots of jobs, things were great,

:31:11.:31:13.

peace around the world. As I mentioned, Bill Clinton will be

:31:14.:31:20.

speaking on the stage tonight. When I interviewed the former president

:31:21.:31:25.

18 months ago, he confided to me that Hillary Clinton had supported

:31:26.:31:29.

his political career the 26 years and now he's prepared to do the same

:31:30.:31:34.

for her. Back to you. We will wait for the Clinton speech.

:31:35.:31:38.

We are all used to getting letters from our banks advising us

:31:39.:31:41.

of changes in terms and conditions, but in a new departure

:31:42.:31:44.

almost a million NatWest business customers have received the news

:31:45.:31:46.

that the bank may have to levy charges for deposits,

:31:47.:31:48.

in other words, impose a negative rate of interest.

:31:49.:31:51.

So why the warning, and what impact is it designed to have?

:31:52.:31:54.

Here's our business editor, Helen Thomas.

:31:55.:32:01.

Through the looking glass, Alice found that normal

:32:02.:32:03.

was turned turned inside out, back to front and upside down.

:32:04.:32:07.

Negative interest rates are confronting banks

:32:08.:32:10.

with their own muddled, mixed-up version of reality.

:32:11.:32:13.

We take it for granted - put your money in the bank,

:32:14.:32:15.

and it will be kept safe for when you need it.

:32:16.:32:18.

If you're lucky, you'll earn some interest

:32:19.:32:20.

and get back a little more than you put in.

:32:21.:32:25.

But in a world of negative rates, that isn't necessarily the case.

:32:26.:32:29.

Banks might instead charge you for storing your money with them.

:32:30.:32:35.

The UK hasn't entered Wonderland - the Bank of England's key interest

:32:36.:32:38.

rate has been stuck at 0.5% for over seven years.

:32:39.:32:41.

But with the central bank expected to cut rates further next month,

:32:42.:32:44.

the weird and wonderful world of negative rates

:32:45.:32:46.

Royal Bank of Scotland has given a glimpse

:32:47.:32:54.

of this alternative financial reality.

:32:55.:32:57.

This message was buried in a new set of terms and conditions

:32:58.:33:00.

a warning that it could charge them interest on their account balances.

:33:01.:33:05.

to impose negative rates on its customers.

:33:06.:33:12.

But around the world, countries like Japan have already

:33:13.:33:16.

cut interest rates into negative territory, and in the eurozone,

:33:17.:33:21.

Denmark, Sweden or Switzerland, banks are effectively being charged

:33:22.:33:25.

to keep their excess funds at the central bank.

:33:26.:33:30.

The theory is that this gets banks interested in lending more

:33:31.:33:33.

and pushes borrowing costs lower to help the economy.

:33:34.:33:38.

Banks are wary of passing on the costs of negative rates

:33:39.:33:43.

The first one is whether savers would need to save

:33:44.:33:50.

just at the time when the economy needs spending instead of support.

:33:51.:33:55.

And secondly, whether depositors start to lose a bit of confidence

:33:56.:33:58.

in the banking system and actually take it out.

:33:59.:34:00.

We've already seen, in Japan and Germany,

:34:01.:34:02.

that the sale of safes have shot up, and what would that mean

:34:03.:34:05.

to the confidence in the banking system if people started

:34:06.:34:07.

to leave their money in safes rather than the bank?

:34:08.:34:10.

Nervous savers aside, negative rates end up

:34:11.:34:13.

squeezing banks' profits, and that could mean

:34:14.:34:17.

less lending, not more - a bad outcome for the economy.

:34:18.:34:21.

I think that negative rates could be a dangerous experiment.

:34:22.:34:24.

We simply don't know how they work for any prolonged period of time.

:34:25.:34:28.

One reason for them is to try to make the cost of funding cheaper,

:34:29.:34:32.

but actually the examples of Sweden and Denmark

:34:33.:34:34.

show that banks put up their prices to offset the negative rates,

:34:35.:34:37.

the exact opposite of what policymakers want.

:34:38.:34:41.

That is why Bank of England Governor Mark Carney has suggested

:34:42.:34:44.

that negative rates could do more harm than good.

:34:45.:34:48.

He warned the hit to bank profitability could, perversely,

:34:49.:34:52.

reduce credit availability or even increase its overall price.

:34:53.:34:55.

for ever more fantastical ways to boost economies.

:34:56.:35:01.

Negative interest rates, however, may not be all that they appear.

:35:02.:35:08.

Amongst the uncertainties of a post-Brexit Britain,

:35:09.:35:12.

the future of scientific research is critical,

:35:13.:35:14.

says one of the country's most senior scientists,

:35:15.:35:18.

the president of the Royal Society, Sir Venki Ramakrishnan.

:35:19.:35:21.

The Nobel Prize winner has told Newsnight that he wants

:35:22.:35:24.

the government to underwrite research funding for scientists

:35:25.:35:26.

who are applying for EU money right now.

:35:27.:35:30.

He's also concerned that some of the best scientific talent here

:35:31.:35:32.

following disillusionment among researchers after the vote.

:35:33.:35:40.

When I interviewed him earlier, I began by asking him which

:35:41.:35:44.

side of the EU referendum debate the scientific community fell on.

:35:45.:35:46.

Science is fundamentally international in nature,

:35:47.:35:51.

so I think science has always been dependent on the free flow

:35:52.:35:55.

of people and ideas, and so we were passionately for the EU,

:35:56.:35:59.

because anything that lowers the barrier to mobility

:36:00.:36:01.

And I was of the opinion that the Government should simply

:36:02.:36:09.

say that EU researchers who are already based in Britain

:36:10.:36:13.

should simply be allowed to stay, without any sort of conditions.

:36:14.:36:17.

And I thought this would be, you know, perfectly obvious,

:36:18.:36:24.

and, you know, it would also force the EU's hand, because, you know,

:36:25.:36:28.

I don't see what else they could do except to respond similarly.

:36:29.:36:34.

What might be the impact of Brexit on future funding,

:36:35.:36:37.

If we are perceived as an inward-looking country

:36:38.:36:44.

that is not so welcoming to the outside world,

:36:45.:36:48.

and that is the impression that some people have got, then

:36:49.:36:50.

We are in a global market for talent, and we need to attract

:36:51.:36:57.

On the other hand, if it's suggested that Brexit is a desire on the part

:36:58.:37:04.

of the majority of the British to simply take control

:37:05.:37:09.

over their laws, but not actually be against immigration as such, then,

:37:10.:37:14.

you know, we have to look to see how we make immigration easy,

:37:15.:37:19.

and we also have to make sure that we continue our collaborations

:37:20.:37:22.

Are you already hearing doubts from people that believe they may

:37:23.:37:32.

not get the European funding they need?

:37:33.:37:35.

People are naturally worried about this, you know,

:37:36.:37:38.

sudden loss of funding, which would be the sort of thing

:37:39.:37:41.

that would make us much less competitive.

:37:42.:37:43.

And I should say, it's not just the funding alone.

:37:44.:37:46.

Most scientists would prefer that funding to be through the EU

:37:47.:37:51.

so that we can be part of these EU networks and large-scale

:37:52.:37:55.

collaborations, because that allows the UK to influence large-scale

:37:56.:37:58.

Because we are one of the leaders in science in Europe,

:37:59.:38:04.

and if we are isolated, then we won't be able

:38:05.:38:06.

But given the strictures at the moment on the economy,

:38:07.:38:10.

what are the chances of getting that money out of the Government?

:38:11.:38:14.

If Britain wants to succeed on its own, outside the EU, it can

:38:15.:38:20.

only do so by being an advanced innovation-based, knowledge-based

:38:21.:38:24.

society, and so there really isn't any alternative to science funding,

:38:25.:38:28.

and if you cut science funding when times are bad,

:38:29.:38:31.

then it takes a very, very long time to restore science,

:38:32.:38:35.

because scientists leave, and then it takes a decade to train

:38:36.:38:38.

And so it is very bad value for money to cut science.

:38:39.:38:43.

But wouldn't we just replace EU funding with global funding

:38:44.:38:46.

that perhaps now we have not sought hard enough?

:38:47.:38:50.

Over the last 20 or 30 years, because we were part of the EU,

:38:51.:38:54.

we have built up connections, networks, collaborations

:38:55.:38:57.

Now, to reproduce those sorts of things elsewhere, first of all,

:38:58.:39:05.

the structures have to exist for those sorts of funding,

:39:06.:39:10.

and secondly, you know, would have to build up networks,

:39:11.:39:12.

Did the scientists not shout loud enough during the campaign?

:39:13.:39:17.

I think a lot of scientists did shout out loud enough,

:39:18.:39:21.

but I don't think this referendum was decided based on

:39:22.:39:23.

In fact, I would venture to guess that it made absolutely no

:39:24.:39:27.

difference to the people who voted to leave.

:39:28.:39:34.

They were concerned more about things like immigration,

:39:35.:39:35.

The question we have to ask is, why did we not,

:39:36.:39:44.

over three generations, or at least two generations,

:39:45.:39:48.

inculcate in, you know, our population a feeling

:39:49.:39:51.

that we are actually all European and not...

:39:52.:39:56.

I mean, we are perfectly willing to accept that we are both English

:39:57.:39:59.

and British, but, you know, when it comes to the next step,

:40:00.:40:02.

English, British and European, you know, many of us

:40:03.:40:05.

And I think that is really, to me, as someone who is a relative

:40:06.:40:14.

outsider, who came here 16 years ago, that is something

:40:15.:40:16.

You may remember USA Freedom Kids, the adorable pro-Trump

:40:17.:40:28.

cheerleading group that charmed the world back in January

:40:29.:40:30.

group that charmed the world back in January with their

:40:31.:40:32.

Now, rather less charmingly, their manager, Mike Popick,

:40:33.:40:35.

is planning to sue Team Trump for not paying him.

:40:36.:40:42.

Anyway, we thought it was all a great excuse

:40:43.:41:05.

If you woke up to sunshine this morning there's a good

:41:06.:41:06.

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