26/07/2016 Newsnight


With Kirsty Wark. IS claim another murder in France and the Democratic convention in Philadelphia is in full swing. Plus negative interest rates and what Brexit means for science.

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IS reaches into rural France to deliver yet


another act of barbarism, this time inside a church.


President Hollande says the threat to France has never been so severe,


while the people of the small Normandy town struggle to absorb


TRANSLATION: He was a simple man, he was always at people's service.


He could have taken a quiet retirement but he preferred to stay


active as long as he was in good health.


He preferred to stay active and serve his parish.


I am in Ansbach in Bavaria where a Syrian refugee claiming to act on


behalf of Islamic State blew himself up at the weekend.


But how much can the state do to protect its citizens,


and at the same time preserve freedom?


Tonight, Bernie Sanders offers emphatic support to Clinton but do


his actions match his words? We ask how Hillary can take the message to


the country when she remains unpopular with so many.


She recognises how sharply divided the party is now


She would promote Bernie Sanders to be nominated from the floor


If you had a Clinton-Sanders ticket, I think


that would do a lot to heal the party.


Also tonight, what happens when interests plummet to less than zero?


We've already seen in Japan and Germany the sale


What would that mean to the confidence of the banking


system if people started leaving their money in safes,


A new horror was visited on France today when two terrorists,


claimed by IS, entered a church in a small town


in Normandy during Mass and murdered an 84-year-old priest


and critically injured one of the three worshippers before


being killed by French police outside the church.


One of the attackers was under close surveillance, on probation,


and wearing an electronic tag after two failed attempts


President Hollande, who arrived swiftly at the scene,


said it was one more sign that France was at war with


It's another act of barbarism so soon after the Nice massacre


and in Germany, the vicious attacks in Wuerzburg


and Ansbach, all brutal, unsophisticated attacks designed


The premier of Bavaria said officials had to do whatever


was necessary to protect citizens, and the French President


says we must protect citizens "by all means."


But what are the limits of the state in modern democracies?


We'll be discussing that in a moment, and reporting


from Bavaria, but first, Secunder Karmani is in the small


For those in Rouen Cathedral attending a Mass in honour


of Father Jacques Hamel, there must have been


Yet another IS-related attack in France.


If young people were targeted in Paris, families in Nice,


today's victim, an 84-year-old old priest, represented yet another


The priest who normally works in the church that was attacked


said the murdered man was only there as he was away on holiday.


TRANSLATION: I've spoken to a few people, notably some of the sisters


I don't know how we are going to get through the next few hours.


He was a simple man, always at people's service.


He was 85 and could have taken a quiet retirement but he preferred


to stay active as long as he was in good health.


He preferred to stay active and serve his parish.


The two attackers burst into this church this morning,


taking the priest and a handful of nuns and parishioners prisoner.


They slit the throat of the priest and recorded it on camera.


One of the nuns, speaking to French media, described what she saw.


Both attackers were killed quickly by police as they emerged


from the church, but there will be questions for the security services.


French authorities have already faced severe criticism


A damning report about security failings in the lead up


to the Paris attacks, an alleged lack of police on duty


in Nice and today it has emerged that at least one of the attackers


who struck here was very much on the authorities' radar.


Having tried and failed to get to Syria, he was on a curfew


At the Cathedral today, some felt there was little that


could ever be done to protect such soft targets.


Nobody thought it would ever be attacked so, yes,


you see the army in the street every day, in small groups, but you can't


But amongst some in France there is real anger at the continuing


Prime Minister Manuel Valls was booed as he attended a minute's


silence for the victims in Nice two weeks ago.


He had suggested that terrorism was becoming a modern reality France


As always after an attack, there are prayers for the dead


Could more have been done to prevent the bloodshed?


Were those responsible directed by IS or just inspired by them?


Perhaps the biggest question in France right now is how on earth


does the country stop what appears to be an almost relentless


TRANSLATION: We are attached to the bitty but in situations like this


people who have nothing to hide have nothing to worry about. You can't


say this is a risk. The state has to take all the Ms is possible to bring


back security and protect citizens two all the measures possible. --


all the measures possible. Following the attacks in Paris


in November there were over 3500 raids as part of the state


of emergency that was imposed. They were criticised by some


for being too harsh. And there are some calls


for the authorities not to go TRANSLATION: The response to


violence is never violence, the response must be reasoned, we need


to think long-term and understand people's motivations. Right now we


are completely out of our depth. This afternoon, one person


was arrested in connection One of the victims is


still in hospital. But the French president has


had to visit the scene He said that IS had


declared war on France. Now the pressure on him


to respond is growing. What is the latest on the


investigation? In the last few hours, the French public prosecutor


has been talking and the authorities have formally identified one of the


two attackers as a 19-year-old man who lived close to the scene of the


attack, Adel Kermiche and he was well-known to the authorities,


having been arrested on two occasions trying to get to Syria. He


spent some time in jail here and was released with an electronic tag and


he is also a kind of terrorism watchlist which thousands of people


are on. There will be questions about the level of surveillance he


was on as part of being on the list. One imagines over the next few days


there will be calls for tougher treatment of the people on the list,


even though many of them have never been convicted of any crime and that


gets to the heart of the dilemma that France and much of Europe is


in, where you draw the boundary between security and liberty.


Another thing to add about the investigation, a key line that the


authorities will try and pursue, were the attackers linked directly


to people in Syria? There are reports that Adel Kermiche was close


friends with a particularly well-known French jihadi from this


region who went to Syria and appeared in a number of videos. We


will seek if he inspired this attack. We know that the attackers


filmed the murder that they committed. Thank you for joining us.


The Normany murder follows closely on from a spate of attacks


in the last eight days in Germany which have left 15 people dead,


including four attackers, and dozens injured.


German officials say two attackers had links


Bavaria's state premier, a long-standing critic


of Angela Merkel's open door refugee policy, said it was time to up


It was in Bavaria, on Sunday, in Ansbach, that a suicide bombing


near a music festival wounded 15 people.


What more do we know? Well, we are learning, on the official Islamic


State weekly newspaper this evening they are making some very


interesting claims about the man, named as Mohammad D, who blew


himself up just behind me. They say that he was a member of Al-Qaeda in


Iraq as far back as 2011 and that he fought with various Jihadist groups


on the front lines around Aleppo, that he was wounded and sought


treatment in Europe and that there was direct communication with him in


the days running up to the attack. There was a lot of scepticism about


that here on the streets of Ansbach Forster people pointing to the fact


that he sought treatment for mental health issues, that he had


apparently twice tried to take his own life previously. At least two


people I spoke to said that he didn't seem very religious, they saw


him at the mosque only once even though he lived here for two years


and he didn't observe Ramadan. But he was about to be deported when he


blew himself up and he left a message pledging himself to the


leader of Islamic State. We know that the Bavarian premier has been


speaking but what is the mood in Germany? Up until last week, Germany


had largely escaped the kind of scenes that we've heard about in


France and scene in Ofgem, the kind of scenes we saw in Britain on July


seven, even though they have taken in more than 1 million refugees.


Things have been calm. Four attacks has changed that a lot -- and in


Belgium. The attacks may not be connected to any jihad, one may be


linked to the far right but that is falling to the wayside in the public


awareness. The kind of welcoming culture we saw with such


extraordinary scenes last summer with people carrying water and food


for the incoming refugees, that seems to be changing. Angela


Merkel's popularity ratings are falling, under pressure from members


of her own coalition who say that the open borders policy must stop.


Thank you for joining us. IS was quick to claim


today's attack in France. Are the recent attacks a coordinated


series aimed at destabilising the fabric of Western society


or random acts of extreme violence? Is this the start of some awful


new chapter of political violence You don't have to delve very deep


to see that killers using knives, axes or vehicles are extremely hard


to detect ahead of time, But some of these acts,


at least, are part of a new wave It's different to the threat we sort


of previously experienced with Al-Qaeda, precisely


because the strategy has changed, the move towards low-grade terrorism


insofar as it is not sophisticated, so everyday, ordinary objects,


a car, all these sorts of things are being used now to kill people


in politically symbolic ways that still affects us and resonates very


profoundly with our societies, but it's materially different


to something like the scale and sophistication of September


11th, the Madrid bombings, or 7/7. Faced with this threat,


police called to the scene, as today, have to take decisions


immediately with a high probability Well, certainly, what we've seen,


not just in France and Germany, but in events that have


taken place elsewhere, so for example in Ottawa


and in Sydney, is a terrorist threat that manifests itself with the aim


that the assailants are not planning And therefore what the police need


to do is to assess very quickly the threat that is posed,


the risks that are there, and to select the appropriate


tactical option, which more often than not in cases of late requires


a very swift response IS has claimed today's attack,


but is that just a cynical ploy? Some recent claims, like Nice,


have taken more than 24 hours, leading some to suppose that


Islamic State is simply taking But in several instances,


there have been signs We don't live in a police state,


thankfully, and there isn't a policeman on every single corner


keeping tabs on every single Nevertheless, the measures


that we do have in the United Kingdom are such to keep


abreast of what's taking place in order to allocate resources


at the correct time to threats Does that mean that every single


incident can be prevented? The aspiration is to aim for that,


that is what the security services want to achieve,


but it can't necessarily Addressing France tonight,


President Hollande told a nation shocked by recent events


just how much was at stake. We the French people,


let us make a block. That is how we will win the war


against hatred and fanaticism. And I assure you,


we will win this war. Long live the Republic,


long live France. With the ongoing wave of violence,


President Hollande has seen the far right surge in the polls


and his own ratings slump. And as it carries on,


there is a very real possibility that the government might be changed


in France, or even Germany, by this wave of Islamic State


inspired violence - something their supporters


could regard as a major coup. With further raids under way in that


France tonight, those involved in counterterrorism expect


a long and difficult summer. With me now is Shami Chakrabarti,


the former director of Liberty a former director of global


counter-terrorism for MI6. There can be no softer target than a


church with a priest, two nuns and other worshippers. This series of


soft targets in France and now in Germany, IS will use these to


destabilise, whether aren't they were the instigators. Absolutely, IS


will take advantage of anything that happens, and of course our own


reaction is to assume that it is IS as well, because they have been


quite successful at that. When you think of the soft target in any


country, or any country that might be the target of IS, it is very hard


to know what you should do to protect them. The contract between


the state and the citizen is that the state will try to keep the


Citizen safe while giving them freedoms, but as Sarkozy was saying,


is that possible when the enemy has no taboos, no limits, no borders?


Are we going to have to change the way we look at security? I would say


quite the reverse, because the whole point of IS is to undermine the


cohesion of society, to a road human rights and the observance of human


rights and so on, and to make people feel that they are being


discriminated against and that the governments they live and not doing


a good job of looking out the them. So I think, actually, as was said


famously after the Anders Breivik attacks, what we need is more


democracy, not less. When people are murdered, we do not expect the state


to stop every murder, but do we expect the state to stop every act


of terrorism? Or is Manuel Valls right, you have to live with it?


Well, we all live with risk in our lives, but Richard is so right, the


point about terrorism is that it provokes to get a reaction, so if


for example Angela Merkel had been a stabilising influence on the


continent of Europe, then that has to be undermined. Now, we have seen


so many horrors in recent times, including, by the way, the murder of


an MP on our own streets, and I suspect that if the alleged


perpetrator had been of a different race, we would have been discussing


whether that could have been claimed by them. What I suspect is going on,


of course, some of these incidents are orchestrated, some are inspired,


and some are claimed after the event, regardless of what happened.


And in a sense, we have to deal with risk, we have to deal with our own


fears, and we have to make sure we do not close down our society,


because that is, I hate to keep saying this, that is what IS wants.


But we do expect the state to have a certain degree of surveillance, a


certain degree of security. As we know, after the Paris attacks,


thousands were interviewed, and we know there was a failure of security


today because one of the attackers had and Alec Trellick Tower on. One


of the attackers had an electronic target, and that raises a question


too about how many people you can put under total surveillance at


anyone time. One of the things I suspect we have in common is that


this idea of the wrist freezers I'd eat this the enemy of this book and


the civil liberties Aryan. -- the risk free society is the enemy of


the spook and the civil libertarian. But we expect our security servers


to deliver for us, and there has to be a curtailing of certain freedoms.


Well, I am not sure, you know, that has to be put to the public test, as


to how much freedom they would like curtailed, but you are right, the


problem of looking at everybody who could possibly be a future


perpetrator of a terrorist crime is amazing. In-lap Roz, for example,


300 people who have come back from Iraq, Syria, another 800 have been


stopped, that is already 1100 people. -- in France. We have to


keep these things in proportion. We have an idea that we can completely


eliminate the threat from terrorism, but we do not regard any other crime


in that way. But does behaviour have to change? I mean, the behaviours of


children in schools,, you know, duck and cover for the nuclear threat, do


we have to be more aware of terrorism? I do not think it is


about dark and cover, but we need to reflect, we had an opportunity after


9/11 and again after 7/7, and now we have a similar opportunity in France


and Germany, and I hope they go the way that Norway went after Breivik.


Yes, we need a mortgage and society, but we need a stronger civil


society, we need a vigil is in communities. But how do you maintain


a cohesive society? We know things are changing in Germany, even in the


last the weeks, as you know, Gabriel Gatehouse was saying, the wonderful


welcome that refugees had. How do keep society cohesive when there is


a lot of division? Well, as he said, over 1 million refugees now in


Germany, how many refugees have been arrested on terrorism charges? I


should imagine less than five, a tiny percentage. So we are


extrapolated from this security threat into, you know, anxiety about


immigrants. If I was Isis, I would be thinking about positively


undermining Angela Merkel's policy on refugees right now, because it is


about alienation and injustice, and that is how you recruit terrorists.


I just want to change the subject, because there were reports that you


had refused a peerage. Rather than asking that, is there a peerage in


the offing? That is being discussed, a Labour peerage. I don't know, are


you going to take onto my I haven't been offered one, have you? Many


times! Thank you very much indeed. The Democrat Convention


in the City of Brotherly Love Last night, Michelle Obama raised


the roof in Philadelphia with a passionate speech in praise


of Hillary Clinton, and later tonight, Bill Clinton


will take to the stage. But there's a lot of unease


about poor poll showings and the convention


has had a rocky start. All that is true, but tonight


America stands on the edge of history, a major political party is


about to another date a woman for president for the first time ever.


The roll call going on behind me, noisy and emotional, as the states


and the delegates take their turn one by one. Well, the Pap for


Hillary Clinton has been far from smooth. As you said, last night


Democratic rival Bernie Sanders took to the stage to endorse her,


wholeheartedly, and to ask his supporters to do the same. But it is


a problem that stands, do his actions actually belie his words?


And how does a character so divisive and so unpopular as Hillary Clinton,


going into this Convention on favourability ratings of minus 22,


bring her country round? # You must rejoice,


there is no choice The Late Show at convention


is virtually required viewing Stephen Colbert channelling


the hipster Sandista Death, taxes and Hillary -


she's made to seem inevitable. And inevitability, as we all know,


is rarely that sexy. And Tim Kaine!


LAUGHTER. Hillary Clinton will make


an outstanding president, and I am proud to stand


with her tonight! gave the strongest endorsement


he could of Clinton. A confused response from the hall,


though - some cheers, some boos,


and chanting. And the Hillary campaign team,


led by John Podesta, who was also her husband


Bill Clinton's chief of staff, The really big problem


for the party is the unpopularity


of both main candidates now, Look, I think we are


going to work, and this convention will succeed


in putting forward not only a platform


and a set of ideas but show Hillary Clinton


and Tim Kaine as people who've devoted their life to helping


working people, to lifting them up, and we'll see a lot of that


through the voices of real people Others, like former presidential


candidate Dennis Kucinich, called for more radical action


from her Hillary Clinton, if she


recognised how sharply divided the party is right now


because of the DNC scandal, she would permit Bernie Sanders


to be nominated from the floor If you had a Clinton-Sanders


ticket, I think that would do a lot to heal the party and give it


a strong chance in November. You're actually saying


she should get rid of Kaine now. Not get rid of him, no, it's not


about getting rid of anybody. It's about realising


that something happened here that is profoundly adverse


to what the Democratic Party is supposed to believe in,


and so how do you heal that? You can't just let it stand,


it's got to be addressed, and the easiest way to address it


is to say, and the one way to do that is to


say, "Bernie, come on board." Despite emphatic words of support


from Bernie Sanders last night, here is the curious thing -


the Vermont Senator has never officially


suspended his own campaign, and this morning he announced he


wouldn't be fundraising for Clinton, telling his supporters


the political revolution goes on. And one of those opening the


convention here onstage explains it, telling me this is essentially


the first time the Hillary-Sanders


campaigns have met. as two campaigns


who have fought each other. We'll go out of here as one


effort to defeat Donald Trump and hold on to the White House


this fall. Are you sure?


Oh, absolutely, absolutely. First of all, the majority


of our folks are already there, and the rest, every day, are coming


to understand just how quickly we've been moving this party


in a progressive direction. A month ago, we had


a milquetoast platform. Today, we have the most progressive


in the party's history. It's because of the work


of our revolution. This is a weird cocoon,


he explains - "We come in one animal,


we go out another" - every breath Hillary Clinton


has to spend uniting her own party is one lost talking


to the swing voters she so desperately needs


to win over. Well, Hillary Clinton need that


magic number to cross the line. In the last few moments, we have just


had the nomination from the oldest delegate, 102-year-old woman from


Arizona, older than the suffrage movement itself. One of her closest


confidants, who has known her for three decades, and her husband, is


the Virginia governor Terry McAuliffe. He will be nominating her


public on the stage in a moment. Just before we came on air, I spoke


to him. Did Bernie Sanders


do enough last night I think Bernie Sanders did more


than anyone expected. He made it clear


why he was in the race, and then at the end he said,


"This is why we have to elect Hillary Clinton


as the next president." So you had Michelle Obama,


you had Elizabeth Warren, and then you, of course,


had Senator Sanders. Yesterday, the Sanders folks,


listen, they worked hard, I chaired Hillary's last campaign


for president, They wanted to vent yesterday,


they did that. Now we begin, we nominate her,


we go on as one party. But do his actions


support his words? He said today he wouldn't be


fundraising for her. Well, that is OK, we don't


need him to do fundraising. If he wants to help,


it would be great, but he sent a text to


everybody yesterday, he has told everybody, "Get in line,


this is the right thing to do, we got to stop Donald Trump,


we got to elect Hillary President." So, listen, this is hard,


they came in close. As I said, I did it for Hillary,


it is not easy, but this is the Democratic Party,


we like to have our issues and discuss them, but now is the


time, we move forward tonight. When we nominate her, and I'm proud,


I get to walk on stage and announce the first female


nominee in the history of the American political system,


I'm pretty fired up. And you know how hard


it is to sell her popularity around the country, why is that,


and what has to happen now? I think the most important thing


is we got to have a great convention,


I thought yesterday was great. We obviously have Bill Clinton


tonight, the President and Vice President tomorrow night,


and then of course Hillary's speech and Tim Kaine's speech


on Wednesday night. I think, once we finish


this convention, everybody is going to know


why we are running. what I thought was an embarrassment


last week... I'm the ultimate optimist,


but we had four days of tearing down America, America's


miserable, America's losing. We're not, we're the


greatest nation on earth. Can we be better?


You bet we can! But people want to be uplifted,


they won't hope. You got to compete on a global


basis, not be a bunch of negative whiners,


you want someone who is Do we have to see


a different Hillary coming out of this


convention, though? Does she need to be a different


person going forward? she is the same Hillary that I have


known for 36 years. You know, I talk about the times


on vacation with her, playing with my kids in the pool


I love Hillary Clinton, and you're going to see


the Hillary Clinton Compassionate, I know her soul,


she cares about people, she cares about children,


and that's who she is. And you've worked very closely,


of course, with Bill Clinton. Do you believe that he has been


a help or a hindrance in terms of bringing on


the women's vote? and I think tonight his speech


will be spectacular. He's been campaigning


all over the country, it's his wife who is going to be


the next president, But I remind you, when


Bill Clinton left office, he left with the second


highest approval, of any second-term president


in the history of America. Lots of jobs, things were great,


peace around the world. As I mentioned, Bill Clinton will be


speaking on the stage tonight. When I interviewed the former president


18 months ago, he confided to me that Hillary Clinton had supported


his political career the 26 years and now he's prepared to do the same


for her. Back to you. We will wait for the Clinton speech.


We are all used to getting letters from our banks advising us


of changes in terms and conditions, but in a new departure


almost a million NatWest business customers have received the news


that the bank may have to levy charges for deposits,


in other words, impose a negative rate of interest.


So why the warning, and what impact is it designed to have?


Here's our business editor, Helen Thomas.


Through the looking glass, Alice found that normal


was turned turned inside out, back to front and upside down.


Negative interest rates are confronting banks


with their own muddled, mixed-up version of reality.


We take it for granted - put your money in the bank,


and it will be kept safe for when you need it.


If you're lucky, you'll earn some interest


and get back a little more than you put in.


But in a world of negative rates, that isn't necessarily the case.


Banks might instead charge you for storing your money with them.


The UK hasn't entered Wonderland - the Bank of England's key interest


rate has been stuck at 0.5% for over seven years.


But with the central bank expected to cut rates further next month,


the weird and wonderful world of negative rates


Royal Bank of Scotland has given a glimpse


of this alternative financial reality.


This message was buried in a new set of terms and conditions


a warning that it could charge them interest on their account balances.


to impose negative rates on its customers.


But around the world, countries like Japan have already


cut interest rates into negative territory, and in the eurozone,


Denmark, Sweden or Switzerland, banks are effectively being charged


to keep their excess funds at the central bank.


The theory is that this gets banks interested in lending more


and pushes borrowing costs lower to help the economy.


Banks are wary of passing on the costs of negative rates


The first one is whether savers would need to save


just at the time when the economy needs spending instead of support.


And secondly, whether depositors start to lose a bit of confidence


in the banking system and actually take it out.


We've already seen, in Japan and Germany,


that the sale of safes have shot up, and what would that mean


to the confidence in the banking system if people started


to leave their money in safes rather than the bank?


Nervous savers aside, negative rates end up


squeezing banks' profits, and that could mean


less lending, not more - a bad outcome for the economy.


I think that negative rates could be a dangerous experiment.


We simply don't know how they work for any prolonged period of time.


One reason for them is to try to make the cost of funding cheaper,


but actually the examples of Sweden and Denmark


show that banks put up their prices to offset the negative rates,


the exact opposite of what policymakers want.


That is why Bank of England Governor Mark Carney has suggested


that negative rates could do more harm than good.


He warned the hit to bank profitability could, perversely,


reduce credit availability or even increase its overall price.


for ever more fantastical ways to boost economies.


Negative interest rates, however, may not be all that they appear.


Amongst the uncertainties of a post-Brexit Britain,


the future of scientific research is critical,


says one of the country's most senior scientists,


the president of the Royal Society, Sir Venki Ramakrishnan.


The Nobel Prize winner has told Newsnight that he wants


the government to underwrite research funding for scientists


who are applying for EU money right now.


He's also concerned that some of the best scientific talent here


following disillusionment among researchers after the vote.


When I interviewed him earlier, I began by asking him which


side of the EU referendum debate the scientific community fell on.


Science is fundamentally international in nature,


so I think science has always been dependent on the free flow


of people and ideas, and so we were passionately for the EU,


because anything that lowers the barrier to mobility


And I was of the opinion that the Government should simply


say that EU researchers who are already based in Britain


should simply be allowed to stay, without any sort of conditions.


And I thought this would be, you know, perfectly obvious,


and, you know, it would also force the EU's hand, because, you know,


I don't see what else they could do except to respond similarly.


What might be the impact of Brexit on future funding,


If we are perceived as an inward-looking country


that is not so welcoming to the outside world,


and that is the impression that some people have got, then


We are in a global market for talent, and we need to attract


On the other hand, if it's suggested that Brexit is a desire on the part


of the majority of the British to simply take control


over their laws, but not actually be against immigration as such, then,


you know, we have to look to see how we make immigration easy,


and we also have to make sure that we continue our collaborations


Are you already hearing doubts from people that believe they may


not get the European funding they need?


People are naturally worried about this, you know,


sudden loss of funding, which would be the sort of thing


that would make us much less competitive.


And I should say, it's not just the funding alone.


Most scientists would prefer that funding to be through the EU


so that we can be part of these EU networks and large-scale


collaborations, because that allows the UK to influence large-scale


Because we are one of the leaders in science in Europe,


and if we are isolated, then we won't be able


But given the strictures at the moment on the economy,


what are the chances of getting that money out of the Government?


If Britain wants to succeed on its own, outside the EU, it can


only do so by being an advanced innovation-based, knowledge-based


society, and so there really isn't any alternative to science funding,


and if you cut science funding when times are bad,


then it takes a very, very long time to restore science,


because scientists leave, and then it takes a decade to train


And so it is very bad value for money to cut science.


But wouldn't we just replace EU funding with global funding


that perhaps now we have not sought hard enough?


Over the last 20 or 30 years, because we were part of the EU,


we have built up connections, networks, collaborations


Now, to reproduce those sorts of things elsewhere, first of all,


the structures have to exist for those sorts of funding,


and secondly, you know, would have to build up networks,


Did the scientists not shout loud enough during the campaign?


I think a lot of scientists did shout out loud enough,


but I don't think this referendum was decided based on


In fact, I would venture to guess that it made absolutely no


difference to the people who voted to leave.


They were concerned more about things like immigration,


The question we have to ask is, why did we not,


over three generations, or at least two generations,


inculcate in, you know, our population a feeling


that we are actually all European and not...


I mean, we are perfectly willing to accept that we are both English


and British, but, you know, when it comes to the next step,


English, British and European, you know, many of us


And I think that is really, to me, as someone who is a relative


outsider, who came here 16 years ago, that is something


You may remember USA Freedom Kids, the adorable pro-Trump


cheerleading group that charmed the world back in January


group that charmed the world back in January with their


Now, rather less charmingly, their manager, Mike Popick,


is planning to sue Team Trump for not paying him.


Anyway, we thought it was all a great excuse


If you woke up to sunshine this morning there's a good


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