25/07/2016 Newsnight


25/07/2016

James O'Brien interviews Labour leadership challenger Owen Smith live and Emily Maitlis is at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 25/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Owen Smith wants to save the Labour Party from Jeremy Corbyn.

:00:00.:00:00.

Does he now have any chance of succeeding?

:00:07.:00:11.

As one of the women who resigned her place

:00:12.:00:13.

in the Shadow Cabinet unresigns, what can the challenger do

:00:14.:00:17.

Emily travels to the Democrat convention in Philidelphia,

:00:18.:00:23.

sounding out the anger of the American rust belt

:00:24.:00:26.

I dislike Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump is... He's a joke. My mum and

:00:27.:00:38.

my grandma tell me about back when the town was a nice place to hang

:00:39.:00:41.

around and be at, when all the businesses were here and the steel

:00:42.:00:44.

mill was up and people were thriving.

:00:45.:00:50.

At the convention itself, Bernie sanders' supporters aren't happy.

:00:51.:00:57.

We've got to elect Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine. BOO

:00:58.:01:01.

Newsnight has learnt that Government guarantees,

:01:02.:01:08.

supposed to underwrite London's latest project, are in

:01:09.:01:10.

A month ago, by his own admission, you probably hadn't heard

:01:11.:01:21.

Indeed, he was barely a household name in his own household.

:01:22.:01:25.

Tonight, he lays out the credentials and the policies he believes

:01:26.:01:28.

will see him successfully challenge Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership

:01:29.:01:31.

Before that, though, Newsnight's political editor,

:01:32.:01:38.

Nick Watt, joins me to discuss the scale of that challenge

:01:39.:01:41.

and the wider travails of the Labour Party.

:01:42.:01:45.

And the challenge just got a bit bigger, Nick.

:01:46.:01:48.

The verb "to unresign" might not be in the dictionary,

:01:49.:01:51.

It is indeed. We think of you as an erudite person. The curious

:01:52.:02:03.

spectacle of Sarah Champion resigning and unresigning. She wrote

:02:04.:02:06.

to Jeremy Corbyn saying she would like her job back, thank you very

:02:07.:02:11.

much. A pointed response from Jeremy Corbyn, a source in his office told

:02:12.:02:15.

the BBC that this was like the miners strike, when the first miners

:02:16.:02:18.

went back to work and we'll see where it goes from there. As I

:02:19.:02:23.

understand it, that is signalling that when Parliament comes back in

:02:24.:02:26.

September, you may well see a few more of not these ex-Shadow Cabinet,

:02:27.:02:31.

but middle and lower ranking former Shadow ministers saying they want to

:02:32.:02:34.

come back. The coup was a failure. They were sold a pup and now it's

:02:35.:02:38.

time to knuckle down otherwise the SNP will end up as the main

:02:39.:02:44.

Opposition at Westminster. What does the broader picture mean for both

:02:45.:02:49.

contowarders, for Mr Smith and Jeremy Corbyn. He's had a difficult

:02:50.:02:52.

few days. It's got to be good news for him, because somebody who

:02:53.:02:55.

thought he was no good says it's right to be back in his team.

:02:56.:02:59.

Eyebrows are being raised Al-Attiyah comparison with the miners strike.

:03:00.:03:02.

That's a provocative thing to say, some people are saying. For Owen

:03:03.:03:05.

Smith, at one level it's not very good. He's the beneficiary this

:03:06.:03:09.

afternoon coup, and Sarah Champion is now saying, perhaps I should be

:03:10.:03:13.

back on board working for the person that Owen Smith wants to replace.

:03:14.:03:17.

But I think Owen Smith can distance himself from this. This decision was

:03:18.:03:22.

made ten days ago. It was held back to allow Sarah Champion to lead a

:03:23.:03:27.

backbench debate about online child abuse and crucially, Sarah Champion

:03:28.:03:31.

was among a number of Shadow ministers whose offices were

:03:32.:03:35.

carrying on supporting their Shadow teams, the sort of work we don't see

:03:36.:03:39.

behind-the-scenes. Nick, thank you. We'll see more of you later.

:03:40.:03:43.

So we'll hear from Owen in just a moment, but before then,

:03:44.:03:46.

a little reminder about his journey to the leadership contest.

:03:47.:03:56.

I won't be entering a contest against Jeremy Corbyn or anybody

:03:57.:04:01.

else. So proud to be addressing you,

:04:02.:04:06.

launching my bid to be the next leader of the Labour Party, and more

:04:07.:04:10.

importantly than, that the next Labour Prime Minister of this

:04:11.:04:14.

country. I would serve you with great humility and respect, you'd be

:04:15.:04:17.

a good leader of this party. I think I could also be a good leader of

:04:18.:04:22.

this party. I'm with drawing from this race and supporting Owen. He

:04:23.:04:27.

dialled 999 to get a quote from the police. Instead of the police

:04:28.:04:32.

themselves or the press office. And they then complained about you, what

:04:33.:04:36.

does it say about your judgment? We all do daft things when we're young.

:04:37.:04:42.

The country has to say, we can imagine these people running this

:04:43.:04:45.

country and do so better than the Conservatives. Tags the task I'm

:04:46.:04:50.

setting myself and everybody in Labour and I expect us to achieve

:04:51.:04:55.

it. Owen Smith joins me now. Let's begin with today's local difficulty.

:04:56.:05:01.

This was your ace in the hole, the desertion of ministers from Jeremy

:05:02.:05:06.

Corbyn and the vote of no confidence from the Parliamentary Labour Party.

:05:07.:05:10.

Sarah Champion's actions suggest a crack in the facade. Sarah's a

:05:11.:05:15.

friend Ayrad great MP. To be honest, we've gone beyond MPs now. The MPs

:05:16.:05:19.

are rather irrelevant other than Jeremy and myself in standing to

:05:20.:05:23.

contest the leadership. It's the members who count now. Sarah's vote

:05:24.:05:27.

is one amongst 500,000 members of the Labour Party. She'll get to cast

:05:28.:05:31.

that vote. She has to decide whether she's going to vote for me or Jeremy

:05:32.:05:34.

or whether she serves in the couple of weeks when Parliament comes back

:05:35.:05:38.

is neither here nor there. That's not quite right, is it? It must have

:05:39.:05:43.

been a huge part of your decision to stand that the Parliamentary Labour

:05:44.:05:48.

Party was pretty much voting, over 70%, no confidence in the leader and

:05:49.:05:52.

these ministers, both Cabinet level and junior, were deserting in their

:05:53.:05:55.

droves. This is, even if unresign isn't a word, this is the opposite

:05:56.:06:00.

of desertion, one of the foundations of your leadership bid is shaking.

:06:01.:06:05.

Well, no I don't think it is. The truth is that the reason I stood was

:06:06.:06:09.

in order to try and unite the Labour Party. We had a massive crisis of

:06:10.:06:15.

confidence in the Parliamentary Labour Party in Jeremy. The job of

:06:16.:06:19.

the leader of the Labour Party is to lead a united Opposition at

:06:20.:06:21.

Westminster or to lead a Government at Westminster. He couldn't do that.

:06:22.:06:32.

Most of those MPs now have nominated me, overwhelmly, to challenge

:06:33.:06:35.

Jeremy. Sarah deciding to go back in is a minor part of this story. Why

:06:36.:06:38.

do you think she's done it? I think a lot of people will feel that they

:06:39.:06:45.

want to fight the Tories. A lot of people will legitimately feel as I

:06:46.:06:49.

do, that we've given them too easy a ride. Perhaps she feels she can do

:06:50.:06:52.

that better on the frontbench. You're on holiday for the next few

:06:53.:06:56.

weeks. That's the point I was going to make. In reality, there are only

:06:57.:07:01.

two weeks in September and the ballots will have long since gone

:07:02.:07:05.

out by then. We're right in the last knockings of the leadership contest.

:07:06.:07:11.

In reality, Sarah going back in isn't really much of a story either

:07:12.:07:15.

way. When does it become a story? If other people follow? If 150 members

:07:16.:07:20.

of the Labour Party decide they all want to rediscover... I'm thinking

:07:21.:07:26.

more three or four, of a similar level, junior ministers,

:07:27.:07:29.

unresignations? I suspect that too won't make any difference

:07:30.:07:31.

whatsoever. We are still in this position where there is a crisis.

:07:32.:07:36.

And the Labour Party is disunited. One or two MPs decided to go back.

:07:37.:07:40.

Doesn't really change those basic facts. I think it's now for me and

:07:41.:07:43.

Jeremy to lay out our stall to explain what it is we think we

:07:44.:07:46.

should be doing in Opposition, what we might do in Government. I'm glad

:07:47.:07:50.

you said that, that is after all what we're here for. Before we lay

:07:51.:07:55.

out that stall. I wonder if Sarah Champion has responded to the siren

:07:56.:07:59.

call of John McDonnell on television, did you see that strange

:08:00.:08:03.

interlude when he spoke down the camera. You saw that, what do you

:08:04.:08:07.

think he was dog? I think he was trying to say, as I've been saying,

:08:08.:08:12.

that we need to - Hang on a minute, let's remind people who perhaps

:08:13.:08:16.

missed it, exactly what happened on the Andrew Marr Show on Sunday. Let

:08:17.:08:20.

me just say this, to Labour Party supporters, Labour members, members

:08:21.:08:23.

of the Parliamentary Labour Party, we've got to stop this now. There's

:08:24.:08:27.

a small group out there that are willing to destroy our party just to

:08:28.:08:31.

remove Jeremy Corbyn. We've got to stop them. We're on camera six,

:08:32.:08:37.

Owen. I don't know if you want to direct your response to that

:08:38.:08:40.

straight down the barrel of the camera lens as well, but tell us,

:08:41.:08:44.

either to the camera or to me, what you think Mr McDonnell was doing

:08:45.:08:49.

this? I'll tell you seeing I think it would look slightly peculiar, as

:08:50.:08:54.

it did with John to speak down the lens - John can say that if he

:08:55.:08:58.

wants. I went in on that Monday after lots of colleagues had

:08:59.:09:02.

resigned, I went in with five colleagues in order to say, we're

:09:03.:09:05.

not intending to resign, but we want to hear Jeremy, what you're going to

:09:06.:09:09.

do to save the Labour Party. How are you going to compromise in order to

:09:10.:09:13.

bring us together? John McDonnell pushed into that meeting, not having

:09:14.:09:17.

been invited. I put it to John directly that I feared he was part

:09:18.:09:20.

of the small group of people on the far left of the Labour Party who

:09:21.:09:25.

were prepared to see the party split in order to protect his project. His

:09:26.:09:30.

answer to that was to shrug his shoulders and say, "If that's what

:09:31.:09:34.

it takes." That is why I left. That is why I resigned from the

:09:35.:09:38.

frontbench. Ultimately, that's why I'm standing. I do think there is a

:09:39.:09:43.

very real danger that the party will split if Jeremy doesn't move over,

:09:44.:09:48.

that the party will be destroyed. The Tories and other forces on the

:09:49.:09:51.

right of British politics will fill the gap that Labour leaves. That

:09:52.:09:55.

will be a disaster, because we have been the greatest force for social

:09:56.:09:59.

good for 116 years in this country. It would be a tragedy if we were

:10:00.:10:04.

wiped out. Parties can be wiped out. It takes a long time for parties to

:10:05.:10:08.

rise, but they can be snuffed out just like that. That is what I fear

:10:09.:10:14.

could happen to Labour. Let's look, then, at your stall, your manifesto,

:10:15.:10:19.

if you will, particularly looking for clear blue water between you and

:10:20.:10:23.

Jeremy Corbyn. If we started with defence. Would you, as a Prime

:10:24.:10:27.

Minister, be spending more or less than the current GDP percentage on

:10:28.:10:31.

the defence budget? We should be spending 2%. We should be renewing

:10:32.:10:34.

Trident. Security of the British people has always got to be the

:10:35.:10:39.

first order of business for any Government, Labour or Tory. We've

:10:40.:10:42.

got to be serious about that. One of the weakness that's we've had

:10:43.:10:46.

recently is that people worry that Labour isn't serious about security,

:10:47.:10:50.

that it's a lesser issue for Jeremy, as it were. I'm not sure that is

:10:51.:10:55.

right, but he's got a different perspective on some of those things,

:10:56.:10:58.

on patriotism, if you like, on security and defence, I think I've

:10:59.:11:02.

got a more traditional Labour perspective on that, an old

:11:03.:11:07.

fashioned Labour perspective, that's a big difference between us. What do

:11:08.:11:10.

you mean by a different position on patriotism? I don't think Jeremy

:11:11.:11:14.

really understand, sometimes, the way in which people have a strong,

:11:15.:11:19.

perhaps socially conservative, with a small C, sense of place, sense of

:11:20.:11:23.

where they're from. I'm not sure I've heard him talking much about

:11:24.:11:28.

Scotland, an identity, Wales and identity or indeed England and

:11:29.:11:32.

identity. I suspect Jeremy has a more pet row poll tan sense of that.

:11:33.:11:35.

That's not what I think is central to the Labour tradition. Are you

:11:36.:11:40.

calling him unpatriotic? I'm saying I don't think it's core to his set

:11:41.:11:44.

of beliefs. I think he's got a set of liberal per specktives and left

:11:45.:11:49.

per specktives on things and nationhood and nationalism and

:11:50.:11:52.

patriotism aren't really part of his make up. Staying with Trident, you

:11:53.:11:57.

mention old Labour values, I think Tony Benn said, in reference to the

:11:58.:12:03.

nuclear deterrent, that we had the best protected homeless people in

:12:04.:12:07.

the world. It's the membership of the party who support Jeremy Corbyn,

:12:08.:12:10.

they're sceptical about Trident. Aren't you supposed to win them

:12:11.:12:14.

over? Yeah, but I've got to be honest about what I feel. I'm

:12:15.:12:18.

someone who used to believe that getting rid of all our nuclear

:12:19.:12:22.

weapons unilaterally was right. Now I feel the world has become an even

:12:23.:12:26.

more unpredictable, volatile place. You said a moment ago, before we

:12:27.:12:29.

went on air, it's the first time you've been presenting for a while

:12:30.:12:33.

now without some awful news being broadcast. It does feel, to lots of

:12:34.:12:39.

us, that every day there is a new, extraordinary piece of news around

:12:40.:12:41.

the world. That doesn't feel like, to me, a moment when we should be

:12:42.:12:46.

divesting... When did you change your mind? In my mid-20s, when I was

:12:47.:12:52.

a teenager, I was a member of CND and believed in unilateralism. In my

:12:53.:12:57.

mid-20s, I started to see there was a real case for hanging on to our

:12:58.:13:03.

weapons and Labour's traditional position of multilateral disarmament

:13:04.:13:07.

using ours as a bargaining chip to get other countries to get rid of

:13:08.:13:14.

theirs too. Treeza May was asked whether she was prepared to hit the

:13:15.:13:17.

nuclear button, would you be prepared to press the button? I've

:13:18.:13:21.

been asked that question a couple of times and I've said yes. If you've

:13:22.:13:25.

got a nuclear deterrent, you have to be prepared to use it. It's a

:13:26.:13:28.

terrible, terrible necessity. Obviously, one would hope that you'd

:13:29.:13:32.

never get anywhere near that and truthfully, I don't think we ever

:13:33.:13:35.

would get anywhere near it. The point is you have to be prepared to

:13:36.:13:38.

do it in order for it to be effective. Let's move on to health.

:13:39.:13:44.

This is obviously an area in which you've worked. There's been some

:13:45.:13:47.

controversy recently. In the context of health, is there room for more,

:13:48.:13:52.

you've called it choice in the past or private sector involvement in the

:13:53.:13:55.

NHS as it currently stands? Truthfully, no. My view - Changed

:13:56.:13:59.

your mind about this as well then? No. There was one press release that

:14:00.:14:04.

was written by the company that I worked for back in 2005, about a

:14:05.:14:10.

report that kaz commissioned not by me but my predecessor. That's been

:14:11.:14:16.

spun into a suggestion that I'm in favour of privatisation in the NHS.

:14:17.:14:21.

The truth is I'm incredibly proud of the NHS, Labour's greatest creation.

:14:22.:14:26.

100%, publicly owned, free at the point of view NHS should be our

:14:27.:14:30.

position. More than that, we opened the door to the Tories taking our

:14:31.:14:35.

language, that language of choice that was the Labour Party's language

:14:36.:14:42.

in the mid-2000s and using it as a Trojan horse for what they want to

:14:43.:14:47.

do, which is to marketise the NHS piece by piece. I fought the NHS

:14:48.:14:53.

Bill that has privatised parts of the NHS, line-by-line, on the

:14:54.:14:57.

frontbench as the junior spokesperson for Labour. I

:14:58.:15:00.

fundamentally believe we should get back to a period where we have a

:15:01.:15:04.

clear sense of what our public goods, public services and we should

:15:05.:15:08.

be very clear that public service ethos is undermind by allowing it to

:15:09.:15:12.

be diluted. I think we made mistakes in not realising that you - You'd

:15:13.:15:16.

row back on this? This is private sector provision in the NHS as it

:15:17.:15:19.

stands that you seek to reduce? I would. I think we need to be clear

:15:20.:15:24.

that Labour should understand what collective ownership of public

:15:25.:15:27.

goods, what the value of that is. It's one of the very few things, if

:15:28.:15:32.

you like, the NHS, that exemplifies socialism in practice. It's the

:15:33.:15:36.

greatest institution in Britain that illustrates what we're all about in

:15:37.:15:40.

Labour - pooling our risks, sharing our rewards, having a service that

:15:41.:15:45.

is universal and used by everyone paid out of everybody's taxes. It's

:15:46.:15:50.

the essence of labourism. Labourism? What would we be looking at?

:15:51.:15:55.

What sort of areas could be reduced or removed? Very bluntly, we should

:15:56.:16:02.

always think about public services being held in public hands. For

:16:03.:16:08.

example the commissioning practice, lots of it is now done by private

:16:09.:16:12.

sector providers and that's a real mistake, it allows profit and cost

:16:13.:16:19.

to become the principal driver of services and not clinical decisions

:16:20.:16:23.

or need. Introducing the profit motive to the NHS, like in other

:16:24.:16:28.

areas of public service, both dilutes the sense of public

:16:29.:16:32.

connection to it and undermines the essence of what Labour is all about.

:16:33.:16:37.

Beyond that overview, the principled overview, what would the detailed

:16:38.:16:42.

look like? Commissioning. That is one area but there would be a limit?

:16:43.:16:48.

You would put a limit on it? We had a cap with the last Labour

:16:49.:16:52.

government but that is a mistake, we should simply say, we should go

:16:53.:16:58.

further, we want public services to be provided in the public sector by

:16:59.:17:03.

public servants, that should be the overriding objective of Labour

:17:04.:17:09.

because as I say, we do not want to risk those things being subverted or

:17:10.:17:14.

the underpinning ethos, the ideological purpose of them from a

:17:15.:17:18.

Labour perspective being eroded. You would grow the state in this

:17:19.:17:23.

context? I think we do need to get much bolder about what the role of

:17:24.:17:26.

the state is and I will be doing a couple of big speeches in the coming

:17:27.:17:30.

weeks spelling out what I think we got wrong as new Labour,... Give me

:17:31.:17:37.

a preview. I have just given you one about the NHS, but I will talk about

:17:38.:17:41.

taxation, I will talk about the way in which we expand public services,

:17:42.:17:46.

and allow public services to be properly resort. I will talk about

:17:47.:17:51.

funding across the UK, rights at work and the way in which we protect

:17:52.:17:56.

individuals at work through collective means of arguing for

:17:57.:17:59.

better pay and conditions and I've already outlined we should

:18:00.:18:04.

reintroduce sector wage councils as an extra ball work for workers

:18:05.:18:12.

especially women in low-paid sectors. We must move on to the I

:18:13.:18:23.

word coming immigration. Are there too many immigrants in Britain? The

:18:24.:18:30.

way in which we saw a rapid influx of particular Eastern Europe and

:18:31.:18:33.

migrants after the accession of those countries to Europe definitely

:18:34.:18:36.

caused downward pressure on wages, definitely caused changes to local

:18:37.:18:42.

terms and conditions for some workers in some sectors. We have to

:18:43.:18:47.

acknowledge that and there are ways to mitigate that with public service

:18:48.:18:52.

resources and extra money for doctors and school places. My wife

:18:53.:18:57.

is a schoolteacher and we have had significant numbers into South Wales

:18:58.:19:01.

of people fleeing the Middle East. That is something that we as a

:19:02.:19:05.

government at the centre should be acknowledging in extra funding for

:19:06.:19:09.

those areas. Today you have criticised Theresa May's decision to

:19:10.:19:15.

do away with refugees minister. That is an extraordinary decision. Would

:19:16.:19:19.

you not be in the business of numbers regarding refugees in

:19:20.:19:23.

particular and immigration in general? With refugees absolutely

:19:24.:19:26.

not, we should be honouring the great British tradition of being a

:19:27.:19:30.

place of sanctuary for people fleeing persecution, across the

:19:31.:19:34.

world. We have all seen these terrible pictures over the last few

:19:35.:19:39.

summers, we are in the foothills, I think, James, of a global shift of

:19:40.:19:43.

populations and in the foothills of the debate about that, about Howie

:19:44.:19:53.

Roseman on. Our country and other European countries. This debate will

:19:54.:19:55.

change a lot over the coming years. To be clear, it was in the manifesto

:19:56.:20:00.

where you won your seat, to have a migrant impact fund. Ed Miliband had

:20:01.:20:03.

that in place. It is still a good idea. The migrant fund not

:20:04.:20:09.

withstanding, if there were a surge in the number of people coming to

:20:10.:20:12.

Britain to work you would be comfortable if the resources were in

:20:13.:20:19.

place? We should be honest about it because part of the way the service

:20:20.:20:24.

and retail sectors, part of the way that is bounced back a bit after the

:20:25.:20:28.

recession, although it is looking parlous again now, has been because

:20:29.:20:32.

we have had an influx of effectively cheap Labour. Should we want that?

:20:33.:20:38.

It has some economic advantages, no doubt, but what is it doing to

:20:39.:20:42.

squeeze people out of jobs who are living in this country already? All

:20:43.:20:47.

of these things, we have to be much more honest and upfront with the

:20:48.:20:50.

British public about the scale of the challenges we face. If the

:20:51.:20:54.

overall number goes up you would be comfortable with that if all of

:20:55.:20:58.

these are the conditions were in place? The Tories have illustrated

:20:59.:21:03.

perfectly what a boneheaded way it is to go about making policies to

:21:04.:21:08.

set targets that you know you can't meet. Cameron Phelps completely but

:21:09.:21:12.

Theresa May is frankly making a gross mistake in getting rid of a

:21:13.:21:17.

specific refugees minister, that is a really bad thing. Equally

:21:18.:21:21.

reintroducing detention for child refugees as they are effectively

:21:22.:21:24.

dead last week, what an appalling thing that is to do. You referred

:21:25.:21:29.

obliquely to the referendum result and most people now accept there is

:21:30.:21:34.

a relatively binary choice regarding freedom of movement and access to

:21:35.:21:38.

the single market, if we continue to do business as usual with the

:21:39.:21:43.

European Union, it would probably involve freedom of movement staying

:21:44.:21:46.

in place and everyone restrictions on freedom of movement we will have

:21:47.:21:51.

to do less trade. We have to be much tougher and more vigorous in

:21:52.:21:56.

rejecting the notion that it's a binary choice, because the message

:21:57.:22:02.

we were sent with the referendum was fairly simple, it was one that

:22:03.:22:06.

people wanted to retain the benefits of trading within Europe and two,

:22:07.:22:11.

retaining constraints about laws being passed in Europe and on

:22:12.:22:14.

immigration. We can choose to do what the Tories are doing which is

:22:15.:22:19.

to say, there we go, that's that. Hard Brexit. I will be fighting much

:22:20.:22:25.

harder to talk to all of the European parties in power and out of

:22:26.:22:28.

power about how the debate is evolving because if Germany and

:22:29.:22:34.

France and Spain, they have exactly the same discussions. -- in Germany.

:22:35.:22:38.

You are rejecting this tension between freedom of movement and free

:22:39.:22:45.

trade? I am rejecting the fact it is a binary choice, that is a false

:22:46.:22:48.

choice and we should not be lying down and simply saying, these are

:22:49.:22:52.

the terms of the debate, we accept it. That is the worst thing we could

:22:53.:22:58.

possibly do. I am clear we should negotiate much harder, our leaders

:22:59.:23:01.

should demand a seat at those tables, we represent nine or 10

:23:02.:23:06.

million people who vote Labour in this country, Labour has a mandate

:23:07.:23:10.

to debate these things. Most Labour voters voted to stay in. You

:23:11.:23:17.

mentioned the mandate, Mr Corbyn's mandate is huge. He keeps telling me

:23:18.:23:21.

that. He keeps telling everyone because it is true. 50% of members

:23:22.:23:27.

voted for him, he goes on about how overwhelming it was but of members

:23:28.:23:34.

only just over 50% voted for him. 378,000 of them right now, I will

:23:35.:23:38.

talk to as many of those members as I can about what I believe in

:23:39.:23:43.

witches essentially that Britain is becoming an incredibly unequal place

:23:44.:23:45.

where people don't feel they get a fair crack of the web, where people

:23:46.:23:50.

do feel angry and frustrated that we've had a sense of loss and

:23:51.:23:54.

decline in this country for individuals and communities for a

:23:55.:23:58.

long time, but it's not enough to just moan about it, you have to put

:23:59.:24:02.

on the table what you will do to change. If you win will there be a

:24:03.:24:08.

job for him? For Jeremy Corbyn? Absolutely. He does not want to be

:24:09.:24:13.

president. I said President or chairman. There are many ways...

:24:14.:24:18.

Does he have the confidence to have any brief? -- competence. I would

:24:19.:24:26.

absolutely welcome him to the Shadow Cabinet, he should be thanked for

:24:27.:24:31.

having helped Labour to rediscover a bit of radicalism, but we need to go

:24:32.:24:35.

beyond just slogans, bit of hard solutions, we have to be practical,

:24:36.:24:39.

we are practical socialists in the Labour Party, not just debaters.

:24:40.:24:44.

Thank you very much indeed, Owen Smith.

:24:45.:24:47.

Construction hasn't even begun on London's

:24:48.:24:48.

In fact, there's still no agreement on where precisely on the North bank

:24:49.:24:53.

of the Thames the bridge will begin or end, I suppose,

:24:54.:24:56.

It was championed by Boris Johnson and even designed by his favourite

:24:57.:25:07.

architect, known for those snazzy new route master buses.

:25:08.:25:10.

His successor, Sadiq Khan, seems considerably less enthusiastic,

:25:11.:25:12.

and support for the project elsewhere at City Hall

:25:13.:25:14.

It was all supposed to start this summer but has just been pushed

:25:15.:25:22.

back to at least the Autumn, prompting Nick Watt

:25:23.:25:24.

to wonder whether it will ever be built at all.

:25:25.:25:28.

To its fans, the Garden Bridge would show the world that London is a

:25:29.:25:33.

world-class city with a spectacular place

:25:34.:25:35.

for contemplation across the

:25:36.:25:36.

If Manhattan can have the High Line, why can't London have

:25:37.:25:46.

To its detractors the bridge is a vanity project,

:25:47.:25:52.

reminiscent of, yes, the Millennium Dome.

:25:53.:25:53.

The bridge has had significant ambassadors, Boris Johnson as London

:25:54.:26:00.

mayor championed the project and the London-born George Osborne

:26:01.:26:03.

thought it would showcase the best of

:26:04.:26:04.

British design and attract visitors from across the globe.

:26:05.:26:10.

Of course Joanna Lumley, who has known Boris

:26:11.:26:20.

Johnson since she was four, dreamt up the project

:26:21.:26:22.

It is the juxtaposition of something strange,

:26:23.:26:24.

gardens in strange places, that is paradise for me.

:26:25.:26:28.

The bridge now feels unloved in Whitehall and at

:26:29.:26:30.

London City Hall after the sacking of George Osborne, and the departure

:26:31.:26:33.

Sadiq Khan, the new London mayor, was a reluctant convert and was

:26:34.:26:38.

recently given a taste of opposition to the project.

:26:39.:26:40.

Do I cancel it and waste ?40 million or

:26:41.:26:46.

The future of the bridge could be decided this week when the

:26:47.:26:52.

Transport Secretary Chris Grayling decides whether to extend a ?15

:26:53.:26:59.

million government guarantee until September next year.

:27:00.:27:02.

A no would spell real danger for the Garden

:27:03.:27:05.

My understanding is that they have spent ?38 million already.

:27:06.:27:09.

And bearing in mind they haven't got a

:27:10.:27:11.

To put that into context, the Millennium Bridge,

:27:12.:27:19.

including fixing the wobble, cost around 25 million.

:27:20.:27:21.

We could have effectively built a bridge and a

:27:22.:27:24.

half with the money they have spent just on planning and preliminaries.

:27:25.:27:30.

No doubt ministers have thought through the consequences of crossing

:27:31.:27:32.

Joanna Lumley is no slouch when it comes to

:27:33.:27:35.

So, Nick, what have you learned today?

:27:36.:27:45.

Well, we are reaching a decisive moment for the Garden Bridge, with

:27:46.:27:51.

that decision I was mentioning by Chris Grayling, whether to extend

:27:52.:27:55.

?15 million government underwriting of the project until September next

:27:56.:27:59.

year. We are told he is looking at all of the options with an open mind

:28:00.:28:04.

but I sense he will have two big thoughts. With the challenge on

:28:05.:28:09.

public finances at the moment is it right to press ahead? One source

:28:10.:28:13.

said to me, we need bridges people can cross, not that you close for

:28:14.:28:19.

parties. The second thought is the fear about ongoing liabilities, the

:28:20.:28:23.

government could pony up the money and find that the bridge actually

:28:24.:28:26.

never happens and it feels to me that this bridge really now has few

:28:27.:28:30.

friends in Whitehall after the sacking of George Osborne. One

:28:31.:28:34.

person said that the only wholehearted supporter of the bridge

:28:35.:28:38.

in the Cabinet is Boris Johnson and his mind is on other things. Don't

:28:39.:28:43.

forget about Sadiq Khan, the numerical London, a late convert to

:28:44.:28:46.

the bridge, who has been saying there can be no more public money

:28:47.:28:51.

from London. He has his mind on bridges to the east of Tower Bridge

:28:52.:28:56.

because that is about economic regeneration. You have heard from

:28:57.:29:00.

the Garden Bridge asked? Hannah Barnes has heard from the trust and

:29:01.:29:03.

it does not sound as though they are wholly confident it is going their

:29:04.:29:08.

way, a bit late in the day but they have sought a meeting with Chris

:29:09.:29:11.

Grayling and hope the government will continue to support the

:29:12.:29:15.

project. Crucially the trust have told us tonight that only the

:29:16.:29:19.

government can underwrite the project, and they say that is not a

:29:20.:29:23.

job for the private sector, so it is a note from Chris Grayling, and if

:29:24.:29:32.

it is, that 15 million has to be provided this week because they have

:29:33.:29:35.

to file it in their accounts. Troubled waters. Bridge over...

:29:36.:29:40.

Thank you a much indeed. Even a House of Cards script

:29:41.:29:43.

editor would have balked at the implausibility of this

:29:44.:29:45.

American election plot twist: Russian hackers,

:29:46.:29:47.

apparently backed by the Kremlin, were behind the leaking

:29:48.:29:49.

of confidential e-mails exchanged by senior Democrats,

:29:50.:29:51.

showing that they wanted Hilary Clinton, not Bernie Sanders,

:29:52.:29:54.

to win the nomination. And in case, that weren't juicy

:29:55.:29:56.

enough, Sanders supporters today booed their man's suggestion

:29:57.:29:58.

that they should vote Hardly the ideal backdrop

:29:59.:30:01.

to the first day of their convention On the plus side, though,

:30:02.:30:06.

Emily Maitlis is there. Thanks, James. Good evening from

:30:07.:30:19.

Philadelphia, where the democratic national convention has opened

:30:20.:30:23.

amidst the back drop of drama, accusations, conspiracy and now

:30:24.:30:28.

apology. The party chairman has resigned, following leaked e-mails

:30:29.:30:31.

which seemed to suggest she was behind a plot to back Hillary

:30:32.:30:35.

Clinton over Bernie Sanders, for the nomination, something which goes

:30:36.:30:39.

against party rules. Donald Trump has used this occasion to call

:30:40.:30:45.

Hilary, corrupt. His nickname for her is "crooked Hilary". The Clinton

:30:46.:30:49.

campaign has blamed Russia for the leaked e-mails. They say Putin did

:30:50.:30:55.

this and timed it to help Trump. The party itself has offered a deep and

:30:56.:31:00.

sincere apology to Bernie Sanders' supporters. Make no mistake, they

:31:01.:31:04.

are angry. What kind a problem will they have with Hillary Clinton now,

:31:05.:31:09.

at a time when she so desperately needs to unify the party? And are

:31:10.:31:12.

any of them open to an offer from Trump? We took a road trum to find

:31:13.:31:16.

out. -- trip to find out.

:31:17.:31:22.

The journey from Cleveland to Pennsylvania is a good

:31:23.:31:26.

ten hours of open road, we will pass golden farmland

:31:27.:31:29.

and abandoned steel towns, rolling hills and deserted wasteland.

:31:30.:31:33.

These, though, are the craved electro battle grounds

:31:34.:31:36.

-- electoral battlegrounds of the 2016 election.

:31:37.:31:40.

Our first stop is the village of Volant - home to many Amish.

:31:41.:31:43.

They live are very different lifestyle to most Americans,

:31:44.:31:48.

Buggies instead of cars, no electricity, bails of hay

:31:49.:31:54.

There are people who have managed by and large to stay

:31:55.:31:58.

immune to America's fee brow political atmosphere.

:31:59.:32:00.

Yet their self-sufficiency, working the land, producing

:32:01.:32:05.

all that they eat, wear and use can seem rather appealing to a nation

:32:06.:32:08.

that keeps being told it is no longer great.

:32:09.:32:10.

There's is a lifestyle that predates globalisation,

:32:11.:32:12.

-- theirs is a lifestyle that predates globalisation, a curious

:32:13.:32:17.

blueprint for the many Americans who now feel left behind

:32:18.:32:20.

by the speed of change, who feel that too many products

:32:21.:32:22.

are now being made overseas, or that the link between worker

:32:23.:32:26.

and product is now irreparably broken.

:32:27.:32:33.

Americans like those who live here, a town that could once boast

:32:34.:32:36.

Concerns about globalisation, voiced in the States

:32:37.:32:42.

by Trump and Sanders, or in the UK over Brexit

:32:43.:32:46.

are often traced back to the financial crash of 2008,

:32:47.:32:49.

but of course their roots were down decades ago when all of the heavy

:32:50.:32:53.

My mum and my grandma tell me a lot about it.

:32:54.:33:02.

The town was a nice place to hang around and be in, when all

:33:03.:33:06.

of the businesses were here and the steel mill was up

:33:07.:33:09.

Let's hope we can get it back to where it is.

:33:10.:33:14.

I asked Bill Bird which way he thinks he'll vote in November.

:33:15.:33:17.

I dislike Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump is a joke.

:33:18.:33:21.

Pretty much, I would not say I hate them but I strongly dislike them.

:33:22.:33:29.

Pennsylvania hasn't voted for a Republican presidential

:33:30.:33:33.

candidate since 1988, but there are counties in the state

:33:34.:33:36.

that are getting redder, and here's why, the JNL Steel

:33:37.:33:40.

complex that used to employ 10,000 people in this rust belt town

:33:41.:33:45.

of Aliquippa has gone for good, and nothing, nothing

:33:46.:33:49.

The protectionist policies of the 1960s are gone,

:33:50.:33:57.

the workers blame globalisation, there might once have chosen

:33:58.:34:00.

Bernie Sanders, and they are the challenge

:34:01.:34:04.

This was downtown Aliquippa in its heyday, buzzing

:34:05.:34:10.

Now that same road barely functions, we see no one

:34:11.:34:17.

This used to be a dress shop and my mom worked

:34:18.:34:22.

Except this one, a cafe that doubles as a church community

:34:23.:34:27.

Sam worked in the steel mills for 12 years until he was laid off

:34:28.:34:34.

and he found a new job but then lost it last year.

:34:35.:34:36.

Has it been hard to find more work here?

:34:37.:34:40.

I'm not sure, sometimes you try and look hard and make it happen

:34:41.:34:44.

and sometimes you just slack off and don't worry about it.

:34:45.:34:48.

The cafe is run by Evangelist Herb Bailey.

:34:49.:34:51.

He believes blaming globalisation is wrong.

:34:52.:34:54.

We are not players in a global market like we could be.

:34:55.:34:59.

We don't need to bring industry back that was lost,

:35:00.:35:02.

There are great innovations that could be done using the same

:35:03.:35:11.

physical labour and the same intellect that captured

:35:12.:35:15.

the imagination of the rest of the world.

:35:16.:35:17.

Sandra Gul runs the Dreamers Project from this cafe, inspiring the young

:35:18.:35:20.

They don't want to be the norm of having kids,

:35:21.:35:27.

hanging out on the corners, everyone is doing positive things.

:35:28.:35:30.

You are going to vote in November, are you?

:35:31.:35:32.

She was in the background when her husband was

:35:33.:35:47.

Clinton polls well with black Americans and college

:35:48.:35:52.

graduates but when it comes to the white working class,

:35:53.:35:55.

Trump is leading her by an astonishing 40%.

:35:56.:36:03.

Bernie Sanders might have brought many of them in but the e-mail

:36:04.:36:08.

leaks allow them to voice what many had long feared,

:36:09.:36:11.

her nomination was a party stitch-up.

:36:12.:36:17.

In other words, it's no longer Bernie's problem, it's Hillary's.

:36:18.:36:22.

If the shrinking industrial heartland and all of this bucolic

:36:23.:36:26.

battle ground in between doesn't feel she played fair there may

:36:27.:36:30.

Ben Smith the editor in chief of Buzzfeed joins me now. He's just put

:36:31.:36:45.

away his BlackBerry. In terms of how much damage this has done Hillary

:36:46.:36:48.

Clinton's campaign, as she opens the convention, what's your sense? This

:36:49.:36:52.

certainly isn't what they were going for. They wanted a harmonious

:36:53.:36:57.

contrast to the Republican Convention last week. This is not

:36:58.:37:02.

that. This is a lot more, there's openly expressed conflict here than

:37:03.:37:07.

in Cleveland. Terms of the protests on the streets, Bernie supporters

:37:08.:37:11.

saying, "Anyone but Hilary now" Or they'll stay home. Do you think

:37:12.:37:15.

they'll withdraw their vote or could they put it towards a Republican

:37:16.:37:20.

ticket? I think probably electorally this is overstated. There's really

:37:21.:37:25.

no suggestion that Bernie supporters in any kind of numbers will vote for

:37:26.:37:29.

Donald Trump. There's a worry that young voters will stay home and

:37:30.:37:33.

there's a worry that the activists in this room will derail Clinton's

:37:34.:37:37.

stage show a little bit. What does she have to do now? What is the most

:37:38.:37:45.

important message? We've heard from Bernie Sanders asking for, what was

:37:46.:37:50.

the phrase, to be gracious in the hall towards his opponent. I think

:37:51.:37:53.

she would like to use the convention to talk to swing voters, to talk to

:37:54.:37:59.

people in the middle, in the suburbs, college-educated women

:38:00.:38:01.

thinking about Donald Trump. She does not want to use this convention

:38:02.:38:05.

to talk to Bernie Sanders' supporters. She wants to take them

:38:06.:38:09.

for granted. They're saying to them, look, get in line, whatever your

:38:10.:38:14.

problems are with Hilary, you should be terrified of Donald Trump. One of

:38:15.:38:18.

the statistics in the film was the huge gap for the white working class

:38:19.:38:22.

where Donald Trump has a 40% lead over Hillary Clinton. What does she

:38:23.:38:28.

have to do to close the gap? Republicans have for decades, since

:38:29.:38:36.

Reagan, had working class voters. Bernie Sanders looked like he's a

:38:37.:38:40.

product of the white working class, but his supporters are young and

:38:41.:38:44.

diverse. They're the traditional American new left. So I think for

:38:45.:38:49.

Hillary Clinton, college educated white people are the ones who moved

:38:50.:38:52.

towards Donald Trump in the last couple of days and are the reason

:38:53.:38:55.

he's up in the polls. Those are the people she's trying to get back.

:38:56.:39:00.

What was very evident at the RNC in Cleveland was just what a strong

:39:01.:39:04.

presence unwittingly Hillary Clinton was there. All the banners were

:39:05.:39:08.

aimed at her, all the chanting aimed at her. I think if Donald Trump is

:39:09.:39:12.

present here, it has the opposite effect. He wants to be part of this

:39:13.:39:17.

convention. I think at a convention where you see a lot more people

:39:18.:39:23.

holding Bernie signs. The party is united around her but with no great

:39:24.:39:27.

passion for her, the way some people love Donald Trump. They are hoping

:39:28.:39:32.

that Trump will be able to motivate voters that Hillary Clinton can't.

:39:33.:39:36.

That is going to be essential, in a sense, Hilary has a marketing

:39:37.:39:39.

problem. She's not new or novel. People know what they've got. She's

:39:40.:39:43.

got a safe VP choice S she just going to play this safe? Or does she

:39:44.:39:47.

have to do something dramatic and exciting? Until about today, and

:39:48.:40:00.

probably still, the Clinton campaign plan still thinks he can't win. Like

:40:01.:40:06.

in football, when you're up 2-1 with 15 minutes left, that's the game

:40:07.:40:11.

she's playing. The latest goals are making people in the building quite

:40:12.:40:14.

nervous. Maybe you can't just run out the clock on him. Great of you

:40:15.:40:19.

to join us here on Newsnight. It's worth saying that the party

:40:20.:40:22.

chairwoman was going to kick off events here and was going to speak.

:40:23.:40:26.

There was so much protest after the leaked e-mails she has pulled out.

:40:27.:40:30.

We will hear from Bernie Sanders later this evening. His slot has

:40:31.:40:33.

been moved even later. He becomes, as it were, the prime-time guest.

:40:34.:40:37.

There's a lot riding on this. He has to speak to his supporters but also

:40:38.:40:41.

speak to them and tell them to unify the party and get behind his former

:40:42.:40:48.

owe pon ept, Hillary Clinton. -- opponent. Hillary Clinton.

:40:49.:40:50.

Everyone over 70 should look away now, or have the illusions

:40:51.:40:55.

We leave you with the work of Marni Nixon, the most famous

:40:56.:40:59.

In the 1950s and 60s she worked behind the scenes in Hollywood

:41:00.:41:04.

providing the vocals for some "quite well known actors".

:41:05.:41:06.

# Getting to know all about you

:41:07.:41:23.

# I could have danced all night # I could have danced all night

:41:24.:41:29.

# And still have begged for more

:41:30.:41:37.

# I feel pretty, oh so pretty, but I feel

:41:38.:41:43.

Hello there. Last week's heat a fading memory. The weather getting

:41:44.:42:09.

back to normal now with westerly winds bringing normal temperatures

:42:10.:42:11.

and some sunshine, some

:42:12.:42:13.

James O'Brien interviews Labour leadership challenger Owen Smith live, Emily Maitlis is at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, and is the Garden Bridge project running into trouble?


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS