04/08/2016 Newsnight


04/08/2016

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis as Lowell Goddard quits as head of the child abuse inquiry.


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Transcript


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It's turning out to be the post that's impossible to fill.

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Dame Lowell Goddard has become the third head of the inquiry

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into child sexual abuse to step down.

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Faced with criticism over the time she's spent abroad

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since taking up her post, she offered her resignation this

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We'll try to work out what happens to the inquiry now

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and we'll ask why it's had such a faltering start.

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Also tonight, we didn't get the Brexit budget.

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But the Bank of England has given us a Brexit bundle,

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a package of measures to prop up the economy.

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We are living through a time of considerable uncertainty. One thing

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we can do is reduce the uncertainties over the issues over

:00:52.:00:52.

which we have controlled. Or was it a bit nutty

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for the Bank to look so rattled I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't

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do that. What is the problem? And will artificial intelligence

:00:59.:01:13.

help usher in the brave new world It is by any standards a huge

:01:14.:01:15.

inquiry into an enormous topic. It was originally set

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up in 2014 by the then But it got into trouble

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before it got going, losing the first two people

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who were put in charge - both accused of having connections

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that made for conflicts Then it was put on a statutory

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footing last year, it was completely reconvened, and all seemed

:01:41.:01:47.

to be in place. Dame Lowell Goddard,

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brought in from New Zealand, She expected it to

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last several years. It was all moving slowly,

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and so it was not great PR to find Goddard had spent weeks back

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in Australasia on top The head of the official inquiry

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into past handling of child abuse has resigned. Dame Lowell Goddard, a

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New Zealander judge comment Dave noticed today that she will no

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longer chair being quest. Her successor will inherit a huge

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programme with 13 separate strands covering bodies from the Catholic

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Church through to Lambeth Council. The inquiry has had problems since

:02:33.:02:55.

July 2014 when the then Home Secretary announced it in response

:02:56.:03:00.

to a rash of abuse revelations. I can now tell the house that the

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government will establish an Indic went -- an independent inquiry panel

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of experts to consider whether public bodies and other non-state

:03:10.:03:13.

institutions have taken seriously their duty of care to protect

:03:14.:03:17.

children from sexual abuse. Theresa May's first choice to chair the

:03:18.:03:22.

inquiry in 2014 was Baroness Butler Sloss, a British judge. At her late

:03:23.:03:28.

brother had been Attorney General in the late 1980s and she might need to

:03:29.:03:32.

examine his work. After an outcry, she resigned. Then in September

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2014, Dame Fiona Woolf was appointed as chair, another lawyer. She

:03:40.:03:44.

resigned a month later for similar reasons when it emerged she was an

:03:45.:03:48.

acquaintance of Lord Brittan, whose conduct in the 1980s was also

:03:49.:03:59.

expected to be reviewed. So, Dame Lowell was appointed in 2015. In

:04:00.:04:03.

this country, as in other countries, public concern about institutional

:04:04.:04:06.

failure to protect children from sexual abuse has mounted with the

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growing realisation of the sheer scale of this problem. Dame Lowell

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faced criticism this week because she spent the equivalent of three

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months abroad and the inquiry has yet to hear a witness. I think the

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real problem emerged at the hearing last week. Not only did she have to

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postpone the hearing into the late Lord Jana for six months after she

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had been set -- she had said that she would be hearing evidence from

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witnesses, but she seemed completely thrown when counsel for

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Leicestershire police asked for a particular order banning publication

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of something that had been said, possibly an area of the hearing. The

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only assumption I can make is that she simply wasn't up to the job.

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Dame Lowell, though, may not be that essential. The inquiry has four

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other panellists and a big staff. I personally wonder whether or not we

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actually need a chair. Maybe it is too much of a burden for one person.

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Everything is finally taking off. I don't think that we should be too

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distracted by the unfortunate departure of just one person. The

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inquiry continues but, two years in, it is still only getting started.

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With me are Raymond Stevenson, founder of Shirley Oaks Survivors

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Association and a survivor of abuse himself, and down

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the line, Tim Loughton, former Children's Minister.

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Good evening to you both. Raymond, what is your reaction to this?

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Waiting so long... Let me explain, I was physically abused. The 600

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people I represent, half of them were sexually abused, they are going

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to be let down in every way, shape or form. They going to be let down.

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Some of them went through this 30 years ago in investigations by the

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police. Some of them went through this with other investigations. They

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kind of really relied on this to be the last swansong, the last chance

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to really get justice. Were you happy with Lowell Goddard? We were

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unconvinced that this should be handled by one person. We felt there

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should be at least six people chairing the separate strands. But

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when we spoke to her and when we petitioned, we felt comfortable. But

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there was always something lurking in the background, clearly. We're

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not so worried about her taking the time off. Was she the right person

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for the job in the first place? OK. Tim, why do you think she had to go?

:06:42.:06:46.

Well, we don't know. I'm deeply disappointed that she has resigned

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this evening. It is third time unlucky, as you say, after some

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false starts. Theresa May has literally scoured the world to come

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up with Lowell Goddard from New Zealand. She had been in place for

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18 months. I met her several times and she was in front of the home

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affairs Select Committee and we wholeheartedly endorsed her

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appointed. She is deeply impressive and I know she is respected by the

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people working around her. It's very disappointing and quite baffling

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that she has chosen to go today and it's really important that this

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inquiry keeps going and the momentum is not lost. The important work it

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has already done and the more important work it is now prepared to

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do is in no way wasted and can now carry on. Can we just go through a

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couple of reasons people have suggested? Maybe she was

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inappropriate and needed to go. One is that she took 44 days on top of

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her Daniel Levy last year back working or doing other activities in

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Australia and New Zealand. Is that a problem? -- on top of her annual

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leave. We don't know the full details of that and a lot of that

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time it would appear it was spent in Australia where she was looking to

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learn the lessons from the Australian Royal commission into

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historic sets abuse -- historic child sets abuse which had been

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going for many years and was in some ways a precursor of the review that

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Theresa May set up back in 2014. I presume she has been doing some

:08:15.:08:18.

important work there. We've taken so long to get this inquiry, so many

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survivors of these ghastly historic sets abuse cases had their hopes

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pinning on at last getting to the bottom of the truth of what happened

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over many, many decades, a lot of them had put their hopes in Lowell

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Goddard, so it is a shame that she has gone but for goodness sake,

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let's not keep beating up on those people who have been appointed to do

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a really complex and difficult job and one that needs to be done. I do

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know if you heard Joshua in Chris Kirk's package saying that to him it

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didn't look like she was up to the job, she did not appear to know

:08:55.:08:57.

enough about the British legal system. In your view, is there

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anything in that charge at all? Look at the media, the home affairs

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Select Committee, the Home Secretary, the survivors, everybody

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else poured over her CV and qualifications add info night when

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she was appointed 18 months ago. Everyone agreed that she was a good

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appointment and the big issue as to whether she might not be independent

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and might know some of the people who were being looked into was the

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key question. The fact that she came from New Zealand solved that one. I

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had no doubt she was up to the job. She was very impressive when I met

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her personally. We unanimously endorsed her. Let's not try to say

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she was never up to the job. We don't know exactly why she stood

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down but the inquiry needs to get on with its work now. Raymond, within

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five minutes of this I was hearing people say it's all part of a

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cover-up, they were Ash Nevill wanted this inquiry, it's all done

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to undermine the inquiry. Do you believe that? Do you believe there

:10:03.:10:06.

will be survivors who believe this is all about undermining the wiry?

:10:07.:10:11.

We have to tell you our position. We absolutely decided to carry out our

:10:12.:10:13.

own investigations because we were not convinced that this inquiry

:10:14.:10:16.

would actually happen. We made that very clear at the other inquiry but

:10:17.:10:25.

although we are participants we reserve the right to pull out. We

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think people have to start looking at the conspiracy theory. It's

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talked about as if it is pie in the sky that having examined some of the

:10:35.:10:37.

documents we have, we can understand why there is absolute evidence there

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is a cover-up. If people are not willing to talk about it, that's

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fine, but we're here today to say we believe it's consistent. Wrong

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person, wrong time, should never have been employed, someone needs to

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be responsible. This is three times. It doesn't feel like we're just

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unlucky any more. People need to be strong enough to say, is there

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something untoward going on here? You're shaking your head, I will let

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you answer that, but I also want to ask you are what has to be done to

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get this inquiry back on track? As briefly as you can, please. Well,

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OK, the momentum needs to keep going. As you heard in your report,

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the chairman is not the be all and end all, there are hundreds of

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people working for this inquiry, four other very distinguished panel

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members, a consultant panel of survivors, and academic consultant

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panel. Many people part of this inquiry. This needs to go on. The

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Home Secretary needs to look at other possible names to take on the

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head. The work of the inquiry went on with all the problems we were

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having over Baroness Butler Sloss and Fiona Woolf until Lowell Goddard

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was appointed as well. But to go back to the conspiracy theories, I

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and a stand, people who have had their stories pushed under the

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carpet for many years, survivors, may feel very cynical about this.

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But those of us who have called for this inquiry for many years and I

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note is a now as Prime Minister is absolutely determined that this

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inquiry will work and get to the bottom of what happened to so many

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people over so many years. Thank you both very much indeed.

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So, we keep saying it, we are in uncharted territory.

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But today we are in it even more than we were yesterday.

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Official interest rates at their lowest since 1694.

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And actually, they weren't this low even before 1694, it's just hard

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We didn't just get the first change in interest rates for

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over seven years today, it was a package of measures.

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More quantitative easing, a new corporate bond buying

:12:45.:12:46.

programme, and a new thing, the Term Funding Scheme,

:12:47.:12:48.

to make sure the banks pass on the lower rates.

:12:49.:12:51.

Now, nothing has seemed extraordinary this summer,

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but remember for the last few years, we have been hoping

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and expecting that financial normality might return.

:12:56.:12:58.

What we have instead is the next, deeper phase of abnormality.

:12:59.:13:00.

The Bank of England thinks Brexit is going to do long-term

:13:01.:13:08.

damage to the economy, which is nothing that

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But it also thinks Brexit has done some short-term damage to spending,

:13:11.:13:14.

which it can ameliorate with these measures.

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To explain it all, here's our business editor, Helen Thomas.

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The UK economy is taking a real battering. At least, that's the

:13:23.:13:31.

verdict from the Bank of England. After the vote to leave the European

:13:32.:13:35.

Union, growth and investment will be lower, the bank forecast.

:13:36.:13:40.

Unemployment will be higher, and, thanks to the weaker pound,

:13:41.:13:44.

inflation will rise to above its 2% target, squeezing household income

:13:45.:13:49.

through Mac. In response, a 4-part plan, bigger and broader than

:13:50.:13:56.

expected. The benchmark interest rate was cut from half two quarters

:13:57.:13:59.

of a percent, there is cheaper funding for banks to offset hit to

:14:00.:14:04.

their profits, more quantitative easing, with ?60 billion in

:14:05.:14:09.

purchases of UK Government bonds planned, and a new move. Purchases

:14:10.:14:15.

of ?10 billion of corporate bonds, another effort to lower the cost of

:14:16.:14:20.

borrowing for companies. In the Black Country, this business owner

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is staying upbeat. He has seen a big order from the US since the

:14:26.:14:28.

referendum, and that will mean new investment in machinery. We would

:14:29.:14:33.

have preferred to stay. We are staying. We have got to get to grips

:14:34.:14:39.

with that and be positive about how we deal with the issues that come

:14:40.:14:42.

up. But the broader picture is worrying. A sharp fall in the PMI

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index, a survey measure of activity across manufacturing, services and

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construction, clearly had the central bank rattled. Back in

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London, the bank's challenge was to calibrate its response, with even

:14:58.:15:01.

the short-term fallout from Brexit still uncertain and little hard

:15:02.:15:06.

economic data to go on. The move today smacked of overkill for this

:15:07.:15:09.

former member of the bank's rate-setting committee. Interest

:15:10.:15:14.

rates have been so low for so long, it really doesn't justify a further

:15:15.:15:18.

downward move in interest rates. It isn't going to have much impact, and

:15:19.:15:22.

there might be more negative effects for savers and for the pound than

:15:23.:15:28.

positive effects for borrowers. We don't have a lot of economic data

:15:29.:15:31.

about the position since the referendum, so I think it would be

:15:32.:15:34.

better to wait until the autumn before making any big judgments

:15:35.:15:40.

about monetary policy. As usual with exit, however, disagreement is never

:15:41.:15:44.

far away. If you look at every single piece of data that we have

:15:45.:15:49.

had since the 24th of June, it is pointing to a fairly abrupt slowdown

:15:50.:15:54.

in the British economy, possibly recession, some indicators like the

:15:55.:15:57.

PMI point at more than just a show of recession. If it routes to be too

:15:58.:16:02.

much, we will see later, but in my view, there was no debate about the

:16:03.:16:08.

need to come up with more than decent something, and they did.

:16:09.:16:11.

There was a clear message from the Bank of England today, better to act

:16:12.:16:16.

early and go big than risk a more severe downturn as a result of the

:16:17.:16:20.

vote to leave the EU. But that leaves two big questions. First,

:16:21.:16:25.

what am I does the bank have left is the situation deteriorates from

:16:26.:16:30.

here? Mark Carney was pretty clear about ruling out negative interest

:16:31.:16:34.

rates. And second, what help might the bank get from Westminster when

:16:35.:16:38.

the new Chancellor of the Exchequer unveils his spending plans in the

:16:39.:16:42.

autumn? On the latter, a rare out work of consensus. The Bank of

:16:43.:16:48.

England emphasised that Brexit hits the overall potential of the UK

:16:49.:16:51.

economy in ways it just can't address. In the Midlands, too, the

:16:52.:16:57.

sense is that the next move. The politicians. I don't think the

:16:58.:17:02.

interest rate has got that much effect. We finance all our own

:17:03.:17:12.

development, so if you bring it down from a half of a percent to a

:17:13.:17:15.

quarter of a percent, not much impact. They can also commit to HS2,

:17:16.:17:27.

HS2 is not only an infrastructure facility, it is a great employment

:17:28.:17:30.

opportunity, and it is a good investment for the country. So, the

:17:31.:17:35.

other important announcement today. A pledge by Philip Hammond that he

:17:36.:17:39.

would take any necessary steps to support the economy. The Bank of

:17:40.:17:44.

England surpassed expectations with its package of measures. Perhaps the

:17:45.:17:49.

next significant milestone for the post Brexit economy is whether the

:17:50.:17:53.

Chancellor can do the same in the autumn.

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Helen Thomas there. I'm joined by Duncan Weldon, former

:17:55.:18:01.

economics editor of this programme, Brexit campaigner Daniel Hannan and

:18:02.:18:07.

Pfizer Shaheen, director of the think tank Class. Is Brexit turning

:18:08.:18:16.

out worse or better than you expected for the economy? I think

:18:17.:18:21.

most people were expecting some kind of short-term shock. Some of the

:18:22.:18:27.

numbers show what I would expect. Confidence, jitters, a lot of people

:18:28.:18:32.

were not expecting the Brexiteer vote, and how shallow that the dip

:18:33.:18:37.

is, and how long it lasts is all about policy, so it is important

:18:38.:18:39.

some action is taken. Duncan, do you agree? It is early

:18:40.:18:46.

days, but the evidence we have so far is pretty bad. Deep dives in

:18:47.:18:57.

consumer confidence, which is very important, business confidence has

:18:58.:19:01.

taken a hit. We don't have any hard numbers but everything so far makes

:19:02.:19:08.

me worried. Come on, Danny! All of that is surveys. What I thought was

:19:09.:19:11.

interesting was listening to the business owner in that clip, he said

:19:12.:19:17.

it is pessimistic, but my orders are up, people are investing more, if

:19:18.:19:21.

you look at what is actually happening rather than asking people

:19:22.:19:25.

how they feel when they watch all these gloomy reports. We have had a

:19:26.:19:28.

massive Glaxo Smith Kline investment, Tata saying that they

:19:29.:19:36.

won't necessarily pull out, Pinewood continuing, Wells Fargo spending

:19:37.:19:41.

money on EU European HQ in London, so there is no evidence of anything

:19:42.:19:52.

in the real world. But that is pretty firm data that we have got.

:19:53.:19:56.

But if you look at even what the bank itself, what the Bank of

:19:57.:19:59.

England was saying just in May in the run-up to the vote, Mark Carney

:20:00.:20:04.

said we would be in a technical recession, now he is saying growth

:20:05.:20:08.

of 0.6%, but the direction is witty good as far as his upward revision

:20:09.:20:12.

of forecast. Forecasts are going down! The three-year forecast at the

:20:13.:20:19.

end of the three years, the forecast is now for an economy that is 3%

:20:20.:20:22.

smaller than it would have been back in May. That is about 40 billion a

:20:23.:20:30.

year of lost income, and is that better or worse than you would have

:20:31.:20:37.

thought? As recently as May of this year, the Treasury was saying that

:20:38.:20:40.

the economy would shrink between 3.6 and 6%, a recession, not slower

:20:41.:20:46.

growth. The governor of the Bank of England said we would be in

:20:47.:20:49.

technical recession, or at least there was a strong risk. So already

:20:50.:21:01.

there sounding more optimistic. Let's just be clear that there is

:21:02.:21:05.

clearly going to be a slowdown here. This will impact on people's lives,

:21:06.:21:09.

and what we do about it now is the most important thing to focus on.

:21:10.:21:14.

That is a very good point. One argument is that monetary policy is

:21:15.:21:17.

irrelevant to the kind of uncertainty, if companies stop

:21:18.:21:19.

investing because they don't know whether they will have trade

:21:20.:21:24.

arrangements that are investment favourable, there is no point in

:21:25.:21:28.

trying to induce them to make that investment with a cut in interest

:21:29.:21:33.

rates. To sounded Dickensian, you are pushing on a string. Credit

:21:34.:21:39.

supply can't make credit demand. The bank is doing everything it can in

:21:40.:21:42.

the short run, I am not sure it will be enough, and I don't think the

:21:43.:21:47.

bank thinks will be enough. The bank says, we are doing all of this, and

:21:48.:21:52.

the economy is still going to slow, unemployment will still increase,

:21:53.:21:55.

that is a pretty clear signal that the Chancellor needs to do

:21:56.:21:58.

something. And Faiza, cutting interest rates, we basically have

:21:59.:22:05.

interest rates as low as they can practically go. This is another

:22:06.:22:09.

historic low. It might make a bit of difference in terms of money in

:22:10.:22:13.

pockets for some of those in particular on tracker mortgages,

:22:14.:22:16.

that will be offset by inflation of course. There are broader measures

:22:17.:22:20.

we should be thinking about when we think about today's announcement,

:22:21.:22:26.

essentially before Brexit we had problems in the economy, problems

:22:27.:22:30.

with debt build-up, the private sector level, and we have to think

:22:31.:22:34.

also about how these measures will make inequality better or worse.

:22:35.:22:39.

Theresa May has set out this agenda is important, and today's measures

:22:40.:22:45.

around quantitative easing make Wealth inequality worse, they make

:22:46.:22:51.

the rich richer, and that is problematic. Daniel Hannan, some

:22:52.:22:57.

people say the bank panicked or might have caused panic by making it

:22:58.:23:00.

look as if you need to throw the kitchen sink at this. I agree with

:23:01.:23:05.

that. I agree with Duncan, that a quarter percent cut in interest

:23:06.:23:11.

rates, I think they were too low already, and too low for too long.

:23:12.:23:16.

You don't look old enough, but you will remember what it was like just

:23:17.:23:23.

after we left the ERM, Norman Lamont was crucified for saying he could

:23:24.:23:26.

detect signs of recovery because people were so unsettled by the

:23:27.:23:31.

change. Actually, looking back, we can see it was the best thing to

:23:32.:23:34.

happen. Now we have countries from Australia to Uruguay queueing up to

:23:35.:23:40.

do trade deals with us, we are well out of the problems now overtaking

:23:41.:23:43.

the eurozone, ten years from now, people will say we should have done

:23:44.:23:48.

it sooner. Do you agree? Possibly if we make the right decisions now. We

:23:49.:23:53.

have to make the best of Brexit, certainly, but trade deals done

:23:54.:23:57.

quickly tend to be bad, so we need to take time. We need to discuss if

:23:58.:24:03.

we will stay in the common market or not, and what happens going forward,

:24:04.:24:07.

and that will affect confidence. I do think possibly this could be an

:24:08.:24:12.

area of isolation as well, so we have to be very careful, and I am

:24:13.:24:16.

worried that the Bank of England were the first to come up with a

:24:17.:24:19.

plan, and we haven't heard from the Government yet on their plan, and I

:24:20.:24:23.

am keen to hear that. I think your point about labour is interesting,

:24:24.:24:26.

one thing that would be a good confidence boosting measure is to

:24:27.:24:33.

say in sensitive industries, financial services, fighters --

:24:34.:24:41.

pharmaceuticals, we will make it easier for them to trade worldwide

:24:42.:24:45.

and steal a march on the US. Andrea Leadsom says that there will

:24:46.:24:50.

not be in economic impact of Brexit. She has surely been disproved? The

:24:51.:24:56.

problem is that throughout the campaign, not just remain

:24:57.:25:00.

campaigners but the governor of the Bank of England, the Chancellor of

:25:01.:25:03.

the Exchequer, they were talking about bombs under the economy. You

:25:04.:25:08.

cannot scare business leaders by saying bad things in newspapers. If

:25:09.:25:14.

you are broad and you read that George Osborne, Chancellor of the

:25:15.:25:17.

Exchequer, says we will have an emergency Budget, emergency tax

:25:18.:25:20.

rises, that is bound to have some impact. We have to leave it there,

:25:21.:25:22.

thank you all very much indeed. You've heard the phrase,

:25:23.:25:27.

you know that it means you can But there's more to it

:25:28.:25:31.

than that, surely? Well, one of Britain's most

:25:32.:25:34.

prominent businesspeople has the job at IBM, as head of the Internet

:25:35.:25:37.

of Things business unit there, or the Watson Internet of Things,

:25:38.:25:40.

Watson being IBM's artificial Harriet Green took over

:25:41.:25:42.

there at the end of last year after running the travel company

:25:43.:25:46.

Thomas Cook. She helped turn that company round,

:25:47.:25:47.

although was embroiled in the controversy over

:25:48.:25:50.

its unsympathetic reaction to the tragic death of two children

:25:51.:25:51.

on one of its holidays. A very good evening to you. Let's

:25:52.:26:04.

start on the Internet of things, that is your new patch. I guess he

:26:05.:26:09.

will want to understand what it is, but there is no point in giving us

:26:10.:26:13.

an abstract definition, give us an example of something exciting other

:26:14.:26:16.

than being able to turn on your heating rightly. Of course. If you

:26:17.:26:21.

look at all of the data being collected by sensors, it throws out

:26:22.:26:26.

amazing amounts of information, structured, unstructured. Green

:26:27.:26:33.

Horizons in China, helping to see the patterns, to analyse the

:26:34.:26:37.

correlation is, they are able to help reduce pollutants. One of my

:26:38.:26:42.

favourite little start-ups here in the UK, Bluebell, which is a bell on

:26:43.:26:49.

a bike which gathers data from other cyclists about what is happening in

:26:50.:26:55.

the Street, crowd sourced information through the Watson

:26:56.:26:57.

Internet of things, they actually use that, to be able to make their

:26:58.:27:01.

travel on the bicycle is safer and better. So some things are already

:27:02.:27:07.

happening? How does the Internet of things reduce pollution? All of the

:27:08.:27:13.

information, whether it comes from the weather satellites, from

:27:14.:27:18.

Government information, plus social media, Watson, with its amazing

:27:19.:27:25.

capabilities to reason, to correlate these patterns and then to

:27:26.:27:28.

communicate in natural language to give insight so that the Chinese

:27:29.:27:34.

government can take action much more quickly on changes in pollutants,

:27:35.:27:39.

where they are coming from, etc. In fact a 20% reduction in the last

:27:40.:27:45.

quarter. One is the world by the potential, but at the same time one

:27:46.:27:47.

wonders whether human beings at the end of it have the capacity to

:27:48.:27:54.

manage this enormous data-flows, we know there is loads of data washing

:27:55.:27:57.

over as that isn't captured, that isn't manageable in any way. Is this

:27:58.:28:04.

going to be the downfall? In the case of having a Watson capability,

:28:05.:28:11.

this cognitive capability that can help analyse this massive amount of

:28:12.:28:17.

data, learn about oncology, Watson has learned oncology, and if you

:28:18.:28:22.

take a country like India with 1 billion people and a thousand

:28:23.:28:27.

oncologists, to have Watson helping to prevent deaths from cancer, using

:28:28.:28:31.

these capabilities, it is real life stuff. Let's talk a little about

:28:32.:28:36.

Brexit because we were talking about it with our chums here, on the

:28:37.:28:39.

conversation didn't finish before you had to come to you. What is your

:28:40.:28:43.

take on the effect it has had on our economy? I think we are where we

:28:44.:28:51.

are. And I think Faiza said it, it is actually what actions we take, so

:28:52.:28:57.

if we take the technical sector in the UK, which implies 1.5 million

:28:58.:29:05.

people, ?161 billion of revenue, 500,000 software developers, this is

:29:06.:29:11.

our opportunity together to be much more agile, to be creating new

:29:12.:29:16.

start-ups. I think business has an important role to help create jobs

:29:17.:29:26.

and drive innovation forwards. There are people who say businesses and

:29:27.:29:32.

fat cats, businesses like yourself, partly to explain public

:29:33.:29:35.

disenchantment with an economic system, and a lot of the Brexit vote

:29:36.:29:39.

was a change in the kind of capitalism that you represent... ?

:29:40.:29:44.

That may well be the case, and what is important now is that business in

:29:45.:29:48.

its role to help generate jobs, to help create environments where

:29:49.:29:53.

innovation flows, we have seen recently, things are acquired by

:29:54.:30:02.

Softbank... And that is a good thing? I think Arm and Softbank are

:30:03.:30:10.

both part of IBM, they both use the Internet of things, and they have

:30:11.:30:13.

made commitments to continue investing in Cambridge and to

:30:14.:30:18.

continue to expand the impact of the Internet of things on people's

:30:19.:30:22.

lives. I should ask you how you reflect back on your Thomas Cook

:30:23.:30:26.

days, because the company did improve enormously under you, it did

:30:27.:30:32.

have this enormous problem, the death of two children, it occurred

:30:33.:30:35.

way before you were involved in the company at all, but the handling of

:30:36.:30:39.

it was so botched, everyone acknowledges that. What do you think

:30:40.:30:43.

when you look back at your time there? I think the role to make

:30:44.:30:51.

Thomas Cook well so that it could employ the thousands of people that

:30:52.:30:55.

it employed, could support the customers that it had, really to

:30:56.:31:01.

transform the business so that it could survive was very important,

:31:02.:31:05.

and of course with the tragedy that had occurred, making sure that the

:31:06.:31:10.

health and safety approaches that we had, that this type of tragedy

:31:11.:31:16.

should never happen again. And if you look at the way that technology,

:31:17.:31:21.

all of this work to make sure that the monitoring of situations that

:31:22.:31:26.

occurred don't have to occur again is a very common theme through this.

:31:27.:31:30.

I should say, we will continue this discussion.

:31:31.:31:35.

You can send your questions to Harriet

:31:36.:31:37.

in a Facebook Live chat as soon as we come off air

:31:38.:31:40.

We will continue talking to Harriet with your questions. But that is

:31:41.:31:52.

all. Hello. Friday is not looking bad at

:31:53.:32:09.

all across most of the UK, sunshine pretty much from the word go. A bit

:32:10.:32:15.

of cloud developing during the day, maybe a few showers across Northern

:32:16.:32:19.

Ireland and Scotland. But on balance is it is a fine day. You can see a

:32:20.:32:25.

couple of showers across Northern Ireland, only light and fleeting,

:32:26.:32:30.

not lasting long at all. 16, 17 in the lowlands of Scotland. The great

:32:31.:32:36.

thing about Friday is the winds will be light, so in any sunshine it

:32:37.:32:39.

really will feel very pleasant

:32:40.:32:41.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis as Lowell Goddard quits as head of the child abuse inquiry. Plus, how necessary is the Bank of England's post-referendum rate cut? And an interview with IBM's Harriet Green.