09/08/2016 Newsnight


09/08/2016

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A murder in Pakistan on grounds of blasphemy,

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and a community celebrates the work of the murderer.

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It was a very depressing thought when my father was murdered to see

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his murderer garlanded with flowers, it was shocking.

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Is it possible that people here, could take the same view

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On the day that a killer was given a life sentence for a religiously

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inspired murder in Glasgow, we'll ask how serious this problem is.

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He's behind in the polls, are the wheels coming off?

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I am a Republican and I would rather than the Republicans would win but

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more importantly I would rather that my country not go down a fascist

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route. All that and Steve Smith too,

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back on the Olympic couch. That looked like an illegal server.

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That is the other thing about watching the Olympics, you suddenly

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become an expert. Most of us in this country cannot

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begin to understand how someone might murder a fellow human being,

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simply for blasphemy. The idea others might wish a killer

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well for upholding the prophet's honour is surely even

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more incomprehensible. But we know that in Pakistan,

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blasphemy has been an excuse for a killing, and there crowds have

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turned out in support of a killer. Well Tanveer Ahmed was sentenced

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to life imprisonment today, for the murder of Glaswegian

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shopkeeper, Asad Shah. He said his victim,

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an Ahmadi Muslim, had So how on earth did that perverse

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motive for murder arrive here? Secunder Kermani has been looking

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at the case of two murders - that tragic killing of Asad Shah

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in Glasgow, and the murder that These are the moments just before to

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Ahmed pulls out a knife and murder a Glasgow shopkeeper he accuses of

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committing blasphemy. His victim was Assad Shah, who had made YouTube

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videos claiming to be a prophet, sentencing his killer the judge

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today said he had shown no remorse. This was a brutal, barbaric and

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horrific crime, resulting from intolerance. At which led to the

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death of a holy innocent man who openly expressed beliefs which from

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yours. This is the story of two murders. Tanveer Ahmed was inspired

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by another killer, who five years ago shot a liberal Pakistani

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politician attempting to reform the country's blasphemy laws. He became

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a national hero of sorts, after his execution thousands attended his

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funeral. Tanveer Ahmed had a handful of supporters in court today but no

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one in Britain has openly backed what he did. We found a significant

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minority supportive of the killing in Pakistan, that helped inspire it.

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Not just among those widely considered to be extremists but

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among groups and scholars normally associated with more peaceful,

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spiritual interpretations of Islam. Missoup Chaudhry, a scholar from

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Pakistan, travelled overseas for the funeral.

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He says that the man was provoked and should have been freed. He says

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he does not condone the killing in Glasgow. You don't think it is fair

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to say that all these people in Britain who are supporting them,

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like yourself, deep down are actually supporting Tanveer Ahmed

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but do not want to get themselves locked up for inciting racial

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hatred? Masuda completely condemns Isis but

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he and others see no contradiction between that and supporting the

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murder in Pakistan. If we have home-grown terrorists, then we need

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home-grown readers to combat and respond. This Coventry scholar,

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speaking at a conference condemning terrorism. And yet, here he is on

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YouTube in support of the murder in Pakistan. He was a person of

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forthrightness and integrity. Here is a flyer for an anti-Isis event,

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held by popular demand from Bradford. And here is his now

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deleted Facebook post describing Mumtaz Ghadi as a lion. To glorify a

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murderer is not to glorify the individual but to glorify his

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actions. And to call on someone to emulate that. This is not a benign

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or passive action, it is an active and provocative action. When a man

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like Mumtaz Ghadi is glorified, sooner or later, a man like Tanveer

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Ahmed will commit murder. The issue of Glastonbury is very emotive for

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Muslims. In Bradford, even some who condemn him believe that blasphemy

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should be illegal. -- the issue of blasphemy. Historically, we had a

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law against blasphemy, and those laws are now redundant. We need to

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look at that. Most people would find that outrageous, the idea of having

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a blasphemy law. Well, what is blasphemy? It is the right of the

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faith community not to be offended. Assad Shah is greatly missed in his

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local community. His murderer is breathing new life to controversies

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that many thought we had left behind.

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With us now from Glasgow is Scottish Government Minister, Humza Yousaf.

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He is the first Muslim minister in the Scottish Government, and

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represents a neighbouring Glasgow seats to those where the events took

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place. Good evening. Is it more than a tiny fringe who would regard

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blasphemy as reasonable grounds for murder? No, I think it is a minority

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but that is not to say it is not a serious problem. Even a minority of

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people having this view, that is a serious issue. And I think there is

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a little bit of birdieing the head in the sand, not just in the Muslim

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community but perhaps even wider than that, that this problem does

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exist. Well, clearly Mumtaz Qadri has attracted a weird level of

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support from people inside and outside of Pakistan. Have you seen

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evidence of that in the Muslim community two I am afraid I have. I

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remember when the tragic murder of the Punjab Governor took place. I

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remember that there were people celebrating on Facebook and social

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media. There was a shop in Glasgow giving out sweets in celebration.

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Ortelli conned them the ball actions. -- utterly condemn the

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ball. To think that sympathy could translate into violence, it is wrong

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to not make that link. I think there is a real job to be done by the

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Muslim community of course. We have to accept that there is a tiny

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minority but there is a minority that exists that believes that

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disrespecting the Prophet Muhammad is a justification for violence. But

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there is also a job for others to do. I want to be clear, are these

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the usual suspects in your view, people who have pretty extreme views

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that are way outside the mainstream, or is this something that you have

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observed in people who you would not have ordinarily regarded as

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extremists, radicals, jihadists? I am afraid it is the latter. It is

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people that, if I go to my own mask, where I am a minority, it is with

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people that I would automatically think would not be sympathetic to

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violent extremism but for one reason or another, it has been drummed into

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them that blasphemy, disrespecting the Prophet Muhammad, who we are

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taught to revere as closely as our own parents, the disrespected that

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must be met with any means necessary. And of course that is

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contradictory to the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad himself. He was

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verbally and physically abused and the only responded in kindness.

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Those people who commit acts like Tanveer Ahmed, they disrespect the

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name of the Prophet Muhammad and anyone else could. They are not the

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fringe, they are not extremists. These are people who everybody would

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regard as fairly moderate in their everyday lives. What is going on

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here? Why is this such a touchstone issue for some people? Is it a

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projection of identity? It does not feel like it. It is not a West

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versus Muslim thing, the great battle between these two global

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forces. It feels like it is a very strange thing here. I can only give

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you my interpretation. I am not a religious expert, nor an expert in

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these matters but there is clearly a real subversion and her version of

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Islamic ideology at the moment that is happening, with a minority that

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will read things in literal black and white and divide the world into

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those who believe the way they do, their extreme view, and anybody else

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that does not believe that. It's frankly, fair game. What we have to

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do as a Muslim community in the United Kingdom is to make sure that

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we empower those with moderate voices, those that are credible,

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influential moderates, and give them a voice. The danger would be, and we

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have seen this in some elements of the prevent programme, particularly

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south of the border, that often politicians will pluck people who

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sing from the hymn sheet that the government want them to and they do

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not have any credibility within the Muslim community and are frankly

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viewed as suspicious. Therefore, if anything it hardens their views.

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There is a job to do there. There are many more moderates, if I can

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use that term, many more moderates, peaceful Muslims who are happy to

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tolerate and expect to be tolerated themselves. Whatever people's faith,

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religion or creed is, they are not the people being empowered. Finally,

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Tanveer Ahmed has been given a life sentence for the brutal murder.

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People in the court or out the court to cheer or pay respect to him, what

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should a government or the authorities literally do when we see

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that happening? Should we say it is a free country and if people want to

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cheer a murderer, that should be tolerated or is it simply

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intolerable? It is clearly disgraceful and disgusting and I

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have no doubt that the security services will often look for

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patterns of ideology that they claim to associate themselves with and

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whether or not that will lead to violent extremism, whether it is far

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right or Islamic extremism or any other type of extremism. But that is

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a job for the security services to do. But we do live in a democracy,

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we do live in a country where we believe in free speech. As

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intolerable as people's views are, I don't think that clamping down on

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people necessarily for their views, if anything that would probably hard

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in the way they think. But there is a job for the authorities and the

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intelligence services, they do that already, and community policing is

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an integral part of that. Thank you very much.

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It's been interesting watching Donald Trump

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Some have said he's imploding, some of have said he's showing signs

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I have to say, to me, the strangest moment of the last week

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was his interaction with the mother of a crying baby, it wasn't him

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talking of disbanding NATO or pontificating on how aerosols

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don't damage the ozone layer, it was just a somewhat odd way

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Tonight, in a differently odd way, he spoke of stopping

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Hillary Clinton, by using the second amendment - which is the one

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But are the wheels really falling off Donald Trump's campaign,

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or is that wishful thinking by his many opponents?

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David Grossman looks at the challenge facing Donald Trump.

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It seems we live in an era of political flying pigs. Events that

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we were sure what impossible happened anyway. In the UK, we have

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seen Labour wiped out in Scotland, Jeremy Corbyn elected leader, a

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Conservative government and a vote for Brexit, all supposedly

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unthinkable. Could the next impossible reality be a Donald Trump

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presidency? This has been a presidential cycle that has been

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full of surprises. As we saw with the Brexit vote in June, in the UK,

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obviously that gap was smaller in polling but polling is an imperfect

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measurement of public sentiment and it is -- and of who is going to show

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up to vote. There could still be surprises. The last couple of weeks

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have certainly been full of surprises but none in Donald Trump's

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favour. He got into an extraordinary public row with appearance of a

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falling Muslim soldier, at one point comparing his suppose it's a

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sacrifice to bears. That row has not played well in the polls. If we

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trace Donald Trump in red and Hillary Clinton in blue since last

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October, we can see a definite rise and fall in the Tron campaign in

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recent weeks. From slightly ahead going into the Democratic

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convention, to a double-digit deficit today. The way we elect

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presidents, Donald Trump would have to carry certain states, specific

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states in the upper Midwest, industrial states. States that he

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needs absolutely to win the election. He is doing related in

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those states, almost without exception. The way back would

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require some enormous collapse on Hillary Clinton's part. She has been

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so scrutinised over the years, I cannot imagine that there is going

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to be a new scandal that is going to undo her. In the absence of that

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scandal, and increasingly confident Clinton campaign is now pushing

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resources into usually strong Republican states like Arizona and

:15:47.:15:50.

Florida which current polling suggest are winnable for the

:15:51.:15:55.

Democrats. # You can't always get what you want. During the battle for

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the party's nomination, Donald Trump was focused on appealing to die-hard

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Republican activists. Now he has to win over the uncommitted voters in

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the middle, very different challenge that his campaign shows no sign of

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adjusting to. The frustration in Republican circles is obvious. Today

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a letter signed by 50 former Republican administration officials

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warned that Donald Trump would make a dangerous president and would put

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at risk our country's national security.

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I've been watching this train wreck for some time and I kept

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I'm a Republican and I would rather that the Republicans would win. I

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would rather that my country didn't go down a fascist route. But Donald

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Trump continues to defied the conventions of political

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campaigning. To night, he appeared to suggest that political

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assassination might be the only way to keep the second Amendment right

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to bear arms. Hillary Clinton wants to abolish, essentially abolished,

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the second Amendment. If he gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do,

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folks. Although the second Amendment people, maybe, there is. I don't

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know. In 90 days, America decides. Meanwhile, the world waits. No

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comment. It's the season of rail strikes,

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or talk of strikes, at the moment. We all know about the long running

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dispute at Southern. There's an argument

:17:57.:17:58.

going on at ScotRail although there is no strike

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there for the moment. And now staff on Virgin Trains East

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Coast have voted for a walk-out. No actual strike yet, but the threat

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is in the union's back pocket. Common to all three disputes

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are arguments over with safety mentioned as an issue

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by the union on them all. Mick Lynch is the assistant general

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secretary of the RMT Very good evening to you. Who do you

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think should be making decisions about what is safe on the railways?

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Decisions are made about regulations by the regulator, and other bodies.

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The union has to make a decision about whether the government is

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trying to deregulate the railway and dilate safety standards. It is our

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opinion that the focus and their agenda is to dilate safety practices

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and get driver only operation widespread across the system and

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that puts that risk to passengers and infrastructure and put our

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members jobs at risk into the bargain. You portray it as a risk to

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the public. I'm trained to work out whether we should think the union is

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the best arbiter of safety standards or whether the rail safety standards

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board is the better standard investigator? Should we not trust

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those who set the standards? You have to be wary of government bodies

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that are set up by the government. The O R R, for instance is the

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regulator and Grams franchise. Its agenda is to do the government's

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bidding. We are a very extreme -- experienced trade union and our

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agenda is to make sure we have the safest railway possible. You would

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agree that you are conflicted because you have to look after your

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members jobs. It is judge to look after their jobs. That is our jobs

:20:10.:20:15.

and their safety. We have no conflict in keeping the railway safe

:20:16.:20:18.

and keeping the passengers that use it to save and the people that work

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on it safe. That is a mutual and joint interest. You might tell as it

:20:24.:20:29.

is a safety issue when it is really about rejecting jobs. No. These

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disputes are entirely about safety. We could take a deal from these

:20:36.:20:41.

employers that said that we keep the people we have already got. We are

:20:42.:20:44.

standing up for the principle that we don't want safety practices daily

:20:45.:20:50.

did. We want competent people operating trains and the railway and

:20:51.:20:55.

despatching trains. We want the public protected so they are not

:20:56.:21:00.

tracked and dragged on crowded stations, the incidence of which are

:21:01.:21:04.

increasing. We want a proper process where safety officers are on board

:21:05.:21:11.

all our trains. Who should the public trust? Conflicted and able to

:21:12.:21:18.

make this decision in a sensible way? They can't trust the

:21:19.:21:23.

government. We have the rail standard safety board love love that

:21:24.:21:26.

this and said that none of the work has identified any increased risk.

:21:27.:21:32.

At the same time they are investigating an increase in trap

:21:33.:21:38.

and drag incidents. It's not just about train dispatch but the whole

:21:39.:21:42.

suite of competencies that on-board staff have on our railways. It

:21:43.:21:46.

involves evacuation, emergency situations. Can I ask, if we could

:21:47.:21:54.

agree on a neutral body to decide, not someone that the government

:21:55.:21:58.

appointed to deregulate the railways, not the union, someone

:21:59.:22:04.

completely independent, if we could agree on a board that would review

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the evidence and look at the data and tanners whether -- and tell us

:22:08.:22:15.

whether it is a safety problem, would you agree to go with their

:22:16.:22:21.

verdict and stop the strike? We used to have Health and Safety Executive

:22:22.:22:25.

that was largely neutral, the government emerged that with the

:22:26.:22:30.

body that grants franchises. The O R has attended a forum with the

:22:31.:22:39.

government on this batch processes and we are happy to take part but it

:22:40.:22:43.

has not to be subjective. The government agenda is to get rid of

:22:44.:22:48.

safety practices as they stand on our railway so the companies can

:22:49.:22:52.

make more profit. Would you agree that there is a simple solution, an

:22:53.:22:57.

independent body to decide whether it is safe? If it is an independent

:22:58.:23:03.

body, we will support it but there is nobody in government proposing

:23:04.:23:09.

it. I'm proposing it to you. If only you have the power, it would be a

:23:10.:23:13.

nice thing to happen. Thank you very much. We are going to be continuing

:23:14.:23:19.

that conversation off at because we are having a Facebook life. You can

:23:20.:23:25.

send your own questions direct to Mick Lynch and you can pick it up on

:23:26.:23:28.

Facebook page after the programme. When it comes to the Olympic Games,

:23:29.:23:33.

you can't help but be in awe of the sacrifices made by

:23:34.:23:36.

our fellow citizens, to achieve their lifetime dreams and pursue

:23:37.:23:39.

Corinthian ideals of sport. Our own Stephen Smith, for example,

:23:40.:23:41.

has passed up a fortnight's holiday in a static caravan in Rhyll

:23:42.:23:44.

to confine himself to a sofa day-in, day-out

:23:45.:23:46.

for the duration of Rio 2016. he brings us his

:23:47.:23:48.

strictly amateur take on the Games. I'm Radio 4's Corrie Corfield

:23:49.:23:57.

and you're watching Stephen Smith's When it comes to watching

:23:58.:24:02.

sport on telly, I'm an Eddie the Eagle

:24:03.:24:11.

with a remote control. But Kevin O'Sullivan

:24:12.:24:16.

is it for a living. Did you see my thing

:24:17.:24:20.

on Newsnight last night? Yeah.

:24:21.:24:22.

It was brilliant. Do you want to hang

:24:23.:24:28.

out at the Newsnight house and

:24:29.:24:32.

watch some Olympics with me? But Evan's not going

:24:33.:24:34.

to be there, is he? I don't want any lectures

:24:35.:24:37.

about quantitative easing. COMMENTATOR: It's like he's going

:24:38.:24:39.

through a boxing routine and Phelps I've been mesmerised

:24:40.:24:48.

about the pageant of But before the swimming races,

:24:49.:24:51.

they all stand, kind COMENNTATOR: It's like he's growling

:24:52.:24:56.

like a dog. There's this amazing

:24:57.:25:01.

pantomime before the race See, this is what's great

:25:02.:25:05.

about the Olympics. Suddenly, you're watching table

:25:06.:25:23.

tennis That's the other thing

:25:24.:25:30.

about watching the Olympics. Well, I've got some

:25:31.:25:36.

handbooks somewhere. COMMENTATOR: Daley and

:25:37.:25:43.

Goodfellow, last one. Some complained that Goodfellow

:25:44.:25:48.

got rather cut out of Don't share the screen

:25:49.:25:51.

with Tom Daley. COMMENTATOR: Kazakhstan

:25:52.:26:00.

has just fallen in. I think, none of us watch

:26:01.:26:10.

23.5 hours per day. So, I think, if the BBC's

:26:11.:26:23.

going to cover it, it So, yeah, I think

:26:24.:26:32.

the coverage is fine. Thank you so much for coming

:26:33.:26:36.

on Throne Of Games. Listen, any chance of a nice little

:26:37.:26:39.

write-up for the weekend? I'm reviewing When Plastic Surgeons

:26:40.:26:44.

Go Nad on the History Channel. You're watching Stephen

:26:45.:26:58.

Smith's Throne Of Games. Before it's quietly

:26:59.:27:02.

binned and disowned. Thursday, I'm guessing. No, it's

:27:03.:27:09.

going through the Olympic Games. It's all gone very quiet

:27:10.:27:15.

on the Brexit front this month; that debate over how quickly to invoke

:27:16.:27:18.

Article 50 seems to have been resolved in favour of the "not now"

:27:19.:27:21.

or "not even very soon" options. But, if we are going to take it

:27:22.:27:24.

all very slowly, there are some consequences and our business editor

:27:25.:27:28.

Helen Thomas is with me, So there is a looming issue

:27:29.:27:30.

for Nissan's manufacturing Remember this is the biggest

:27:31.:27:35.

car plant in the UK - it employs nearly 7,000

:27:36.:27:39.

people and produces half a million vehicles a year,

:27:40.:27:41.

most of which are exported. Now what Nissan has said,

:27:42.:27:45.

since the referendum, is that future investment in the UK

:27:46.:27:47.

will depend on the details of the UK's relationship with Europe -

:27:48.:27:51.

particularly of course things The problem is that the

:27:52.:27:54.

Renault-Nissan alliance makes all its plants bid

:27:55.:27:58.

against each other for big So Sunderland could be competing

:27:59.:28:00.

against a Renault plant in Spain say What we've been told

:28:01.:28:07.

is that the bidding to build the latest model of the Qashqai

:28:08.:28:10.

is expected to come at the end That car wouldn't even be

:28:11.:28:13.

launched until 2020. But, in the car industry, these

:28:14.:28:17.

decisions are made years in advance. So where does Sunderland stand

:28:18.:28:20.

in that bidding process? Will it be able to bid at all,

:28:21.:28:22.

given that UK investment is on hold Or would it have to include

:28:23.:28:26.

potential tariffs in its bid, which of course would be a real

:28:27.:28:29.

disadvantage against rivals? What we're being told is that

:28:30.:28:32.

people just don't know. Qashqai accounts for about 60%

:28:33.:28:37.

of Sunderland production currently. Nissan has told us today that

:28:38.:28:42.

it's company policy not to comment And we're not saying that Sunderland

:28:43.:28:48.

will lose production of the Qashqai - it's a big, very efficient,

:28:49.:28:55.

very productive plant. But it's not as hard as you might

:28:56.:29:02.

think to move production A lot of Nissan and Renault cars are

:29:03.:29:04.

basically built on the same base. Nissan has been pretty clear that it

:29:05.:29:12.

wants some answers about Brexit before it makes new investment

:29:13.:29:15.

decisions - and it's in the UK's interest

:29:16.:29:18.

to get things sorted Is it going to get those answers

:29:19.:29:21.

before this very significant decision coming up at the end

:29:22.:29:26.

of next year? I will be continuing the

:29:27.:29:40.

conversation with Mick Lynch on the Facebook page.

:29:41.:29:41.

at risk our country's national security.

:29:42.:29:55.

Up and down over the next few days. But the weekend is looking pretty

:29:56.:30:00.

promising. A promising start to the day for many of us. The odd shower

:30:01.:30:04.

across eastern counties but it will be damp early on across Northern

:30:05.:30:08.

Ireland and the rain will be moving across the Irish Sea. It rather

:30:09.:30:11.

dreary scene across Northern Ireland for much of the day with rain

:30:12.:30:15.

extending into the western half of

:30:16.:30:16.

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