05/09/2016 Newsnight

So, is everyone clear about what Brexit means then?

Simply it means leaving the European Union.

Tonight we thought we'd better leave the politicians alone to work out

We've got the Brexit voters instead - what were they all voting for?

And do they like how things are going so far?

And if you haven't all had enough of experts, we've got our own.

What more do we know about the political,

diplomatic and economic direction that Brexit will take?

The chairman of the Home Affairs select committee fights

But is his private life any of our business?

We'll hear from those who think MPs should be held to a higher standard

And did the revolution of the 60s and 70s lay the foundation

I think that the idea was with those guys back then,

that they wanted to connect everybody in the world,

they shouted in the Commons, as our Brexit Secretary David Davis

failed to offer any firmer details on the way ahead.

The Prime Minister, Theresa May, had teed this up to be a moment,

promising a statement that would - after weeks of uncertainty -

set out the Government's strategy for leaving the EU.

David Davis promised his determination to get the best deal

for Britain and a unique agreement, not an off the shelf solution.

This may be so bespoke, so artisan, it may be years in the making.

So tonight, we leave the politicians and return to the voters.

What did Britain's 17 million actually expect to get from Brexit?

And we'll hear from our own experts - if we're still allowed

to call them that - who take us through what needs

to happen diplomatically, economically and politically.

The Prime Minister has told the world that Brexit is on the way, but

die-hard supporters are determined to ensure that the votes of

17-and-a-half million Britons will be safeguarded. The Government's

chief Brexiteer appreciates the need for reassurance. There will be no

attempt to stay in the EU by the back door, no attempt to delay,

frustrate or thwart the will of the British people. No attempt to

engineer a second referendum. Even after a 20 year absence from the

Government front bench the man referred to as the knuckle-duster

knows that he faces a daunting task. There was no triumphalism in

contrast to one of his fellow Brexit campaigners who used the positive

news to launch an attack on their referendum points. Does that not

confirm that the 17 million people who voted to leaf the European Union

in this country know a darn sight more about economics than the

members of the IMF, the OCED and all these other experts who have egg on

their face. He makes his point brilliantly as

always, and I agree with the main thrust of it but let us not get too

optimistic before we close the deal. Perhaps this was prompted by

warnings Theresa May heard at the G20 summit about the Brexit

negotiations but the Prime Minister's intervention in in China

was her adoption of the central commitment of the vote Leave

campaign to take back control of the UK's borders while dropping their

main idea for delivering that. What the British people voted for on the

23rd June was to bring some control into the movement of people from the

European Union into the UK. A points based system does not give you that

Here, then, to talk us through the implications of what's

being said and what isn't being said, Nick Watt, politics,

Helen Thomas, business, Mark Urban, diplomacy.

Let's break this down into four segments -

migration, spending commitments, then economy, then

We will start with that talk of taking control, we have heard that

phrase of Britain's borderers where are we? Slight unease about Theresa

May binning that Australian points system that was one of the main

ideas of the vote Leave campaign. Nigel Farage said he was very

worried about her language, but it is interesting some of the Tory

Brexiteers were more relaxed. I spoke to Iain Duncan Smith, and he

said he agrees the probable with the system is that the Government

doesn't have control. But, he was slightly more suspicious of an idea

that is doing the round in Downing Street, which is perhaps you could

revive the original attention, intentions of the treaty of Rome

which is to restore the free movement of workers, rather than

people, and Iain Duncan Smith was telling me I think you need a work

permit system, this is what he said. Work permits as a control

process, aided and abetted if necessary by the idea

of a points-based sifting system. That allows the UK to decide do

companies and do areas, do we need those skills here,

because we don't have them? If that is the case,

what we are able to say to companies, the UK,

you can recruit from overseas, to a certain degree,

and we will let you have work But in other companies we might

say, in other areas, to a certain degree,

and we will let you have work But in other companies we might

say, in other areas, low skilled perhaps,

and whatever, no, there are plenty Well, that is what controls

over your work permits and borders are about,

deciding who you wanted to have in, The important thing is we,

the UK Government, controls that The other thing we heard so much

about during that campaign was the spending commitments and the pledges

of where the money would go, any news on that? Well, I think we can

officially pronounce the death of one of vote leave's main pledges on

spending which is that the UK would have an extra ?350 million a week to

spend because we would no longer have to pay the EU. David Davis was

asked about this specific issue and he said simply, my job is to give

Parliament control of the money, no mention of any figures but another

pledge which is to match the spending that goes direct payments

to farmers, David Davis said that would happen, that would be covered,

but only until 2020, thereafter, that depends on the success of the

economy. Let us move on the more numbers with

Helen, good economic data, does this alter or shift how you are reading

the economic data that has come from Brexit Brexit? The short-term, the

figures are still good. Today we had this bounce back in services

activity from July to ought, again rexxxx August, reversing the trend

we saw after the vote. The economy isn't exactly booming but the fears

of an immediate meltdown have lifted. But in the longer term

business, just doesn't know where it stands. While we haven't seen any

knee jerk reaction, there are problems, businesses make decisions

years ahead of time, so Nissan will be decided next year where it is

going to build a car that hits the streets in 2020. They will need

answers about the UK's relationship with Europe more quickly than the

Government is moving, the other problem is, as the negotiations

start in earnest, it becomes harder to manage some of the worries so we

have heard that passporting free access to Europe may not be

realistic for the city. What senior bankers have told me is they

immediately hear that and start thinking about the worst case

scenario, so the Government needs to somehow manage these industries's

expectations so they don't hundred down and send investment elsewhere.

Part of that talk is the international trade relation, how

did the G20 leave us, when all the photos are done and dusted. I think

the key take away from G20 in a way is that the wider world is

interested in Brexit, but only so much, out of nine densely typed

pages there are just two sentences on the UK leaving the EU in there,

and this focus, if it begins to wander, because every country has

its own issues, and it is an issue, because if it looks possible from

the positions we are hearing from David day visit we don't want the

so-called Norway option, the full single market membership, we want

access, those types of consideration we were hearing about there, about

banks, passporting, you are then relying on good will and nations

saying yes, you can come and trade here, it is much more complicated

and questionable than the old car equation they want to sell us car,

you know, where you can find acceptable terms of trade quickly,

service is much more tricky, and again, at a conference last week in

Italy, the forum, where we were, we spoke to people there and we heard

passporting that kind of thing is far from certain from UK banks and

they just want Britain to get on quickly, and spell out what we are

seeking, this was the view of a former head of the European Central

After all, the UK is creating the problem,

it is shooting in its own feet, obviously, and has to, you know,

be fully aware of the fact it is necessary to get out

of the uncertain episode in which we are.

And of course, it is also the overall superior interest

of Europe as a whole and of the world, to limit

the uncertainties that have been created by this move.

So that word uncertainty probably not going away any time soon. Thank

There was no manifesto ahead of the EU referendum.

No party pledging policies or promises.

Instead, there was a collection of voices from across the political

divide, offering various scenarios of what Britain could be like,

So what in the end did people vote for?

And how do they think it's going so far?

We talk to Michael Keeble, a retired restaurant manager

from London, Danie Chance, a dental nurse from Nottingham,

Mick Phipps, a barber from Essex, Elaine Sullivan, who runs

a consultancy business near Reading, Martin Bontfort, a retired police

inspector from Boston, Angela Garvin, a PA

A warm welcome to you all. Now we have gone through the formalities we

will get to the chase, I am going to ask you, in a sense for a show of

hands, which of you would prioritise as the reason for voting, this

question of sovereignty, of making our own law, being in charge. All of

you, OK. So if I then said which of you would put as a priority if you

could only choose one thing number, in terms of immigration, controlling

the flow of people into this country, would any of your change

your mind and say that was more important? Think it is going to be

the numbers are going to be detailed depending on the platform we create

for bids, I don't believe that we need to reduce immigration, I

believe we need to create a great platform for businesses to come

here, create job, we might double immigration some years, pull it back

other year, I think you need to act on it more in the smaller sense and

the entrepreneurial sense like a country acting on its own standards

can do. We might find ourself in a good position that way. I think, I

think it is not necessarily we only have to take that number of people,

that number of people, we have to know how many we are taking, and

where we are taking them. If the jobs are there. You don't want to

create... We have a good infrastructure... A maximum wage as

opposed to the minimum wage. So from what you have heard today and you

heard from Nick watt that the points base system is not going to be the

system Theresa May chooses, does that alter anything for you Michael?

We need a points system that is completely in the way that we shape

it. So when they dismiss a points system for Australia, of course,

that is not, they don't have the same requirements as we do. But, if

our points system could choose and pick and allow for ourselves,

then... And adapt as well. Adapt. It is probably more about the economic

side of it, so it is not necessarily having ex number of people that have

met that bar to come in, it is what have we got to offer those people as

they are coming in and how are they going to contribute when they

arrive? OK. Let me pick up with Martin, I know you were worried that

our politicians, you didn't have the confidence our politicians would

sort this out, even if it was a yes to leave vote, did you, do you feel

that things are going well now, better than you expected, worse? I

don't know. I mean, the only thing I think is that the vote that we were

given, that everybody was given was black-and-white, yes or no, in or

out and now we are getting the shades of grey coming in and the

grey areas, and I just don't think that people were aware of that

sufficiently. Do any of you feel that you were duped at all? I mean,

I know you have done your reading, you came into this well-informed, do

any of you feel you were duped about what were told at the time? I think

we will feel that, if... The information and the the information

that you provided with, I think, you know, I think everyone could say

that we were duped into believing certain things. It is good to say

why? A lot of you have had a reaction from other people, to being

Brexit voters, and Danie, what happened to you when the vote was to

leave? Well, because I am in the Labour Party, and I was in mandated

to be Remain, I was vocal about the fact I wanted the leave the EU, and

immediately after the result came in, there was a lot of backlash that

I received from not just people in the Labour Party, but people in

every day life, really. I was branded you know, as racist, and

things like that, and to me, immigration isn't a concern of mine,

mine is more to do with the sovereignty and the democracy, and

being able to govern ourselves rather than you know, having to

listen to someone in the EU. Did anyone else have that experience

of being seen in a different way? Sovereignty of our Parliament. I

mean the response that people had? I think initially it was a band wagon

that people got on. To continue to still be in that place now, those

people are not being optimistic. They're not taking their

opportunities in a changing environment. They need to change.

They need to move on. Do you feel that the rest of the world has

caught up? I mean, Angela, you were undecided right the way through. So,

did you feel very passionate when you went to vote and was it very

clear in your head which way you were going to or could you have gone

either way? Towards the end I was pretty positive that I was going to

vote out. I was undecided to begin with. But the more I did the

research, the more I looked into things, the more I felt that we

could cope and deal with our own, yeah have a positive feeling. It's

really interesting because you're talking about the sense of

confidence and belief, but essentially, the big questions are

still ahead of us all. One of them is this compromise. Somewhere along

the lines, we've all got to choose or the politicians have to choose -

do we want to accept free movement, which could be more people coming in

that we don't have control over, but it might give us that access still

to remain in the single EU market, which one do we think is more

important? As for as I'm concerned, I don't want to pay that price. The

price of free movement. The price of free movement. Who agrees? If it

means free movement... I don't think it will be. Being confident and

optimistic about Great Britain, I think I'd like to see a news report

on the other side of all these other countries, the 160 not part of the

EU going Great Britain come and do business with us. You still think we

can have it all? Yes. A fair amount of it. One of the things you know we

won't have all, you were concerned about spending on hospitals and

schools, that 100 million, that they promised, sounds like it's not going

to the NHS. No. Are you surprised? It didn't surprise me at all. None

of you believed that at the time? No. The slogans were a bit poor.

Negative slogans were poor. It washed over me. It was spin. Do you

think the politicians are on top of this? I think they're going to learn

a massive lesson. I think no-one really knows what to do at the

minute. That's why everything is taking so long. It's going to take

two years to come out of the EU. To be honest, I think that's right,

because we need to get it right. We need to do it well. If it takes -

That's just a figure in itself. It was unexpected.

If we're not coming out till 2019? I expect to come out before 2019. I

think article 60 should be invoked in the first three months of next

year so there is impetus behind their arguments and that there is a

framework on which they can expect to build. There has to be a time

frame. We're waiting for the back to school time table, aren't we? Yes.

Thank you all very much. Echoes of Theresa Mays famous Brexit

line seemed to work for questions When asked if he should step down

from his position as head of the Home Affairs Select Committee,

she replied "What Keith Any decisions he wishes to make

are for him". Keith Vaz, filmed undercover

with male prostitutes and splashed over the papers this weekend,

has threatened to sue the Tory MP, So is this about wrongdoing,

trust or something as nebulous as public opinion and the rights

and wrongs of extra-marital sex? The kind of constituency function

that makes many politicians' toes curl, a tee dance for example, has

never been a problem for Keith Vaz. How are things with you? That's a

very pretty dress. Is that yours? Yes. Here he was woulding voters

some 30 years ago, just before he was returned to Parliament for

Leicester east. The Labour Party candidate is elected as the member

for Leicester east. The first Asian MP in the Commons since colonial

times. We fought on the issues of jobs, housing, education and health.

So I'm absolutely delighted. Keith, a bachelor, lives with his mother in

Leicester. She's a local councillor in his constituency. I was late. I

got back at 2am. Were you awake? I certainly have had representations

from members of the Asian community from every city in Britain and

indeed, from many places outside Britain and I'm conscious of the

fact that my work has to also include their aspirations and their

desires. It was such a significant moment. For us Asians, of course,

that you could, you weren't destined to be the small, quiet shop keeper

for the whole of your life, but also, in terms of the black struggle

and power, and the story of this nation. In all the brickbats slung

at Keith Vaz he's never been accused of being a shrinking violet. When a

Bollywood star drew fans to a signing in Leicester, the local MP

was on hand. All I can say to you, as a former member of Parliament, is

please don't stand in Leicester east. After Tony Blair entered

Downing Street, Vaz, by now married, joined the Government and became

minister for Europe in 1999. Soon he was dogged by controversy. He was

accused of using his influence to help the wealthy Indian Hiduja

brothers gain citizenship. A Parliamentary Standards watchdog

accused him of seekericy. Though he was cleared of benefitting

personally. In 2002, Vaz was suspended from the Commons for a

month over vals allegations against a former senior policewoman. He was

found to have given misleading information to the House Standards

and Privileges Committee. I couldn't bear it that so many of his inner

circle were, in my view, unwholesome, rich Asians and that

sometimes he didn't know, seem to know the boundaries of public

office, but all that, I say, changed in the last decade. I have a final

question for you... It's not quite a variety show. You're providing a

little bit of variety though. Making it more like Dad's Army. Keith Vaz

re-invented himself as the suave and low quashs chair of the powerful

Home Affairs Select Committee. His colleagues have mixed feelings about

his tenure. Too much desire for publicity, it could be said for the

committee, but also for himself. I think to some extent, it undermind,

and I emphasise, to some extent, the credibility of the committee. After

allegations in a Sunday paper, involving Mr Vaz and male escorts,

it's widely expected he'll confirm tomorrow that he's stepping down as

chair of the committee, which has been reviewing prostitution laws. Mr

Vaz says he's referring the matter to his lawyers, calling the role of

the newspaper "deeply troubling". Tonight the former trailblazer is a

figure of ridicule, though he's been around long enough, he's already

read his political obituaries more than once before.

Let's talk about the ethics of the revelations and the questions

of trust with our two Ians - Dale, writer and LBC radio

presenter, and Dunt, editor of politics.co.uk.

Very nice of you to come in. I'm going to give the first question to

whichever of you can tell me what Keith Vaz has actually done wrong.

He's done something wrong for his wife and his family. It is their

business, of course. That's a pretty significant failing. So this is

about private morality then? Insofar as marriage comes into it, it's

private. For us, it is absolutely none of our business and it doesn't

affect his work either as MP or as chair of the Home Affairs Select

Committee. If he were just a backbench MP, Ian would be right.

But he is chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee. I think

higher standards apply there. Having said, that as an electorate we

always say we want politicians to reflect the society we live in. 90%

of the people watching this programme will have done something

in their lives, sexually or not, that they wouldn't like to see -

90%? I bet that's right. In terms of your phone-ins you would say that...

I did a phone-in on this this evening, I would say 80% of the

callers were saying, this is all really unfair. Just let him get on

with it. He shouldn't have to step down. I take a different view in

that it's all very well to say, well, he's involved in these enquire

into prostitution and legalisation or criminalisation of drugs and he

hasn't done anything that's hypocritical. Well he has. The point

of the one on prostitution was to look at whether men should be

criminalised for paying for prostitutes. That's not hypocrisy.

That means he's a consumer of the things that he's investigating. It

came out with a different conclusion that that shouldn't happen. That's

still not hypocrisy. I'm not saying he swayed that committee because of

his own private interests. It matters what the general public

thinks. So it's his position on prostitution that you think is the

key thing? No, it's not just that. If you look at the drugs issue. I

mean, you say he's done nothing wrong. We don't know whether the

allegation that he tried to procure drugs for the escorts is true or

not. No doubt that will come out. He suggested that he would pay for

drugs that he was getting himself. He wasn't found in possession or

found getting their drugs. He hasn't done anything wrong there. If I

offered to buy you drugs, I would have a police officer waiting for me

to arrest me. He hasn't really been found trying to procure the drugs

and it is legal to use a sex worker in this country, there are shadows

there about whether they're controlled or not. He has not broken

any laws here. We don't know that. Let him finish. Anyone who looks at

a subject cannot be a consumer as well, we are about to enter into an

extremely twisted political culture. For instance, his previous

investigations were on immigration. One could start asking him, well do

you have any cousins, siblings who suffered through immigration. He is

as affected by that as in this case as well. What if it was an

investigation into some kind of tax avoidance scheme, when he had - The

difference there is there's a financial interest. You have to

declare in Parliament where you have financial interests. Only financial

has a conflict of interest? Typically that's where corruption is

most pervasive. We don't have for declarations for personal morality.

It's a dangerous game to start asking people to tell us about their

private life. This would be very different ten years ago. Something

has changed where 90% of your callers... I'm not looking at this

from personal morality. I think prostitution should be legalised. If

someone wants to pay someone for sex and it's consensual, no problem at

all. However, Brooks Newmark was forced to resign because he sent a

text, a picture of himself that he shouldn't have done. Are we saying

that is more serious... He was forced to resign? He did resign. If

you say I'm too embarrassed... Jeremy Corbyn says this is a private

matter. Why has he suspended Simon Danchu KFOR what he did. In terms of

the question you raise at the beginning which was, put them, do

you put our Select Committee heads in a higher etch lob of society,

that's not -- echelon of society, that's not OK. If we have this

dislocation - You can't have it both ways. You either say all of our

politicians should be whiter than white at all times, which is clearly

not going to happen. Or you say, well there are some positions in

society, some, not all, but some in politics, where if you are caught

doing this sort of thing, I'm afraid it is incumbent of you to fall on

your sword. You take Churchill. He was a functioning alcoholic. If we

want to hold up this standard, there's no-one higher than the Prime

Minister. Is it about likability or popularity? Partly. It's about

curtain twitching moral puritanism. The only variable in these stories,

no-one cares if someone who eats sugar is on a committee to regulate

sugar. But when it comes to sex and drugs, because we suspect people are

having more fun like we are. They probably are. Certainly in my case!

We have a whole Green Room. The party starts here. Thank you for

coming in. The right-wing nationalist party

Alternative for Germany have pushed Angela Merkel's ruling conservatives

into third place in The party, founded three years ago,

was an anti-Euro party, but it has turned its focus

to immigration and Islam. It now has delegates in more than

half of Germany's state parliaments. Last night's elections come

as a stark warning that Merkel's immigration policy is not uniformly

popular with the German people. It was an invitation that put

the world's migrants on the move and encouraged and confounded

Europe. Angela Merkel's offer to receive

a million refuges was as bold She has been lauded for a humane

response to a world in turmoil and villified for creating

a situation seemingly without end, as thousands upon thousands

left their home and headed to the new Jerusalem -

this time, Berlin. But after a summer of terror,

Germany is a country now looking at itself in new ways and wondering

if that largesse was badly aimed. The elections this weekend -

though small in scale - suggest the start of a backlash

against Merkel's plans Just look at her personal approval

rating. From a high of 75% as recently

as last April, to 54% and 49% in the months following the decision

to take in hundreds And after briefly recovering

following the Brexit vote, Merkel's rating plunged

to a five-year low in the wake But today, Merkel was resolute

and stood by her refugee policy. TRANSLATION: Of course,

the result is related I am party chair, the Chancellor,

and in the eyes of voters, I nevertheless believe

the decision on refugees, And now we must

continue to work on it. Even so, any further ratings dips

for Merkel and her party could put next year's national elections -

and the way Merkel chooses to fight Earlier, I spoke to Beatrix von

Storch, MEP and deputy leader of the AFD and asked her how

she saw the result. If it comes to migration

politics, it's both. It is the complete numbers

which already came. This is the first problem,

we are not able to integrate so many people within our labour market

and within our society. It is not possible,

just by the number. Because it is not possible

to integrate those people, because they are not making part

of our cultural background, so we see that we can't

run our social welfare state We can't keep our standard,

if we try to integrate into this So it is not about

Islam, specifically? Well, Islam, of course,

plays a role, because the majority of people coming to us

are from Islam backgrounds, Muslims, so this makes it even more difficult

to integrate the people. This is what we experienced in

the past, it is not the first time. We have got already lots of migrants

who came, lots of years ago, they integrated well,

but others not, and we can see that those coming from Islam

background are much more difficult to integrate into our society

than other cultures. You would say, then,

your party has a specific problem The German society has

a specific problem. Our claim saying Islam does not

belong to Germany is supported by something like 30-

35% of German people, so this is not something

which is only in our mind, people are voting for us because we

have that line very clear. You, your party said some time ago

that German police should be allowed to shoot at refugees

illegally entering Germany. No, we made very clear we don't

want to shoot at anybody, and this is why specifically

we ask our Chancellor to stop co-operating with Mr Eregan

from Turkey to protect our borders, but what we can see in Europe

at the moment is that there is one What do you mean, you don't

want to shoot at anyone? You did say that and now

you don't believe it? We don't want to shoot at anybody,

and that way we can see is one can protect its borders

without using a gun. The only one who is using a gun,

who is killing people, This is the one Merkel has handed

over our border control, and our point is very clear,

we want to protect our own borders Why did you say that,

was that a mistake? We made it clear we don't

want to shoot anybody. What we said is it needs

the political will to We can see that all the states

who have closed down Do you think that policy will spell

the end for Angela Merkel? You have done well this time round,

but you are not in first place yet, and there are many places

you don't have seats. What we say is this is the beginning

of the end of Angela Merkel. We have just been, we just came

in second in the federal state, where Angela Merkel comes from,

so it is her home place We don't have the majority

of the votes yet, and what we see of course is that the politics

is shifting at least into our direction, that even CDU

and CSU are making more and more points we have in our programme,

because they see that people want to have the politic taken

in another direction. Basically the opposite direction

of what the Chancellor is taking. So we have an impact

on the politics already, you are right, we have not yet

gained the majority of the votes, but if the Chancellor sticks

to her line, that will happen Did the counter cultural

revolution of the 60s give us the technological revolution

we have now? An exhibition at the V

is exploring the significance of late 1960s, expressed

through some of the greatest music, Oh my God, look at the picture over

there, the earth coming up. The late 60s were an era of huge

change - everything from fashion, to cultural and political attitudes,

to civil rights were in flux. And how we viewed ourselves

was being redefined. With the moon missions,

humans for the first time saw the earth,

our planet, from space. An image taken by the

astronaut William Anders It has been called the most

important image of the 20th century. The whole earth appears

in its fragile vulnerability and it seems to turn people's thoughts back

to what is going on in the earth. At London's V museum revolution is

in the air. Newsnight has been given a preview of the latest exhibition

encompassing five revolutionary years to 1970. It was a time when

the space race was on when students were demonstrating on campus and on

the streets when music fish mar toes were gathering for festival, when

The Beatles were taken their ideas into the mass media. You say you

want a revolution is an attempt to show how the world was trans formed

in a few years. You can't underestimate how important the

revolution in the head was, as people changed their mind-set from

what had been the case in the early 60s, where people did look up to the

establishment, they expected the Government to do a good job and be

right and by the end of the era you feel that people are doing it for

themselves and that sets us up for the next 50 years. I was excited. I

felt like I was part of it, and I thought that the whole world was

changing, the world was changing, but it didn't quite go exactly the

way everybody thought it would. Lloyd was involved in the Whole

Earth catalogue, a manual for the counter revolution. They pushed Nasa

to release an image of the whole earth, handing out badges after what

he described as a creative LSD trip. Everything from the best lamps to

information on the first completes, and it influenced Steve Jobs.

When I was young, there was an amazing publication called the whole

earth catalogue, it was like Google in paper back form 35 years beforele

came along, it was idealistic, overflowing with neat tools and

great notions. When I saw it on YouTube I thought that is pretty

great, that what we were doing back then was picked up on by this guy

and you know, and see what he has done. The whole earth catalogue was

part of it. It was part of what shaped the ideology that, and I

think that, I think that the idea was with those guys back then they

wanted to connect everybody in the world.

In a sense that has happened. Back then both the hippies living in

communities and the pioneers of modern completing shared a belief

that a better world would come from pooling human knowledge. Those early

ideals of sharing it freely are clearly not exactly as we live now,

so for all that we have amazing communications, and imagine setting

up Woodstock in 1969 without any of that, it is mind-boggling, we can do

that now but at the same time we have surveillance culture, big

business taking over this freedom of knowledge, we have the dark web, we

have our time taken up living on tiny machines, perhaps that takes

our mind away from bigger issues. So it is not, certainly not as they

would have envy Sans. What Richard has done for the underground is

promote its image. Back then Richard Neville co-founder of the Oz

magazine whose death was announced today had high hopes for what

technology would do. He even devised a game in poster form, a history of

the counterculture this anticipation of the free time for playing games

that would frult the digital revolution. It didn't happen of

course, and whether the power of modern day Silicon Valley is a

sell-out of the 60s values or the ultimate expression of them, really

depends on your perspective. We were you kept together? We were

kept in the same cell. The trial of Richard and his foal low editors

symbolises the end of an era for the exhibition, the finale to a time

when the young were imagining new ways to live.

They all came together, because the common enemy was society, as it was

at that time. Very very straight and constrained, and it still is,

actually, so as for the lasting effect I am not too sure.

For the V the legacy comes in the form of the landmark legal changes

to civil and gay rights, equal pay and the right to abortion which all

emerges from this defining time. -- emerged.

That's it for tonight, on what would have been

Since he died in 1991, there's been no-one who had his weird talent

for controlling a gigantic stadium of people like so many

We leave you back in 1985, Wembley Stadium and Rock Music's

# Buddy you're a boy, make a big noise

# Playin' in the street, gonna be a big man some day

# You got mud on your face, big disgrace

# Kickin' your can all over the place

Good evening, there is a humid sticky feel to the weather across

much of the country overnight. And the same can be said