05/09/2016 Newsnight


05/09/2016

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis. Are we any the wiser about Brexit today? Does Keith Vaz deserve privacy?


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Transcript


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So, is everyone clear about what Brexit means then?

:00:00.:00:15.

Simply it means leaving the European Union.

:00:16.:00:19.

Tonight we thought we'd better leave the politicians alone to work out

:00:20.:00:23.

We've got the Brexit voters instead - what were they all voting for?

:00:24.:00:27.

And do they like how things are going so far?

:00:28.:00:30.

And if you haven't all had enough of experts, we've got our own.

:00:31.:00:33.

What more do we know about the political,

:00:34.:00:35.

diplomatic and economic direction that Brexit will take?

:00:36.:00:41.

The chairman of the Home Affairs select committee fights

:00:42.:00:43.

But is his private life any of our business?

:00:44.:00:47.

We'll hear from those who think MPs should be held to a higher standard

:00:48.:00:50.

And did the revolution of the 60s and 70s lay the foundation

:00:51.:01:03.

I think that the idea was with those guys back then,

:01:04.:01:09.

that they wanted to connect everybody in the world,

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they shouted in the Commons, as our Brexit Secretary David Davis

:01:13.:01:27.

failed to offer any firmer details on the way ahead.

:01:28.:01:29.

The Prime Minister, Theresa May, had teed this up to be a moment,

:01:30.:01:32.

promising a statement that would - after weeks of uncertainty -

:01:33.:01:35.

set out the Government's strategy for leaving the EU.

:01:36.:01:37.

David Davis promised his determination to get the best deal

:01:38.:01:40.

for Britain and a unique agreement, not an off the shelf solution.

:01:41.:01:43.

This may be so bespoke, so artisan, it may be years in the making.

:01:44.:01:46.

So tonight, we leave the politicians and return to the voters.

:01:47.:01:53.

What did Britain's 17 million actually expect to get from Brexit?

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And we'll hear from our own experts - if we're still allowed

:01:57.:02:00.

to call them that - who take us through what needs

:02:01.:02:03.

to happen diplomatically, economically and politically.

:02:04.:02:04.

The Prime Minister has told the world that Brexit is on the way, but

:02:05.:02:21.

die-hard supporters are determined to ensure that the votes of

:02:22.:02:25.

17-and-a-half million Britons will be safeguarded. The Government's

:02:26.:02:30.

chief Brexiteer appreciates the need for reassurance. There will be no

:02:31.:02:34.

attempt to stay in the EU by the back door, no attempt to delay,

:02:35.:02:38.

frustrate or thwart the will of the British people. No attempt to

:02:39.:02:45.

engineer a second referendum. Even after a 20 year absence from the

:02:46.:02:49.

Government front bench the man referred to as the knuckle-duster

:02:50.:02:55.

knows that he faces a daunting task. There was no triumphalism in

:02:56.:02:59.

contrast to one of his fellow Brexit campaigners who used the positive

:03:00.:03:03.

news to launch an attack on their referendum points. Does that not

:03:04.:03:07.

confirm that the 17 million people who voted to leaf the European Union

:03:08.:03:12.

in this country know a darn sight more about economics than the

:03:13.:03:21.

members of the IMF, the OCED and all these other experts who have egg on

:03:22.:03:27.

their face. He makes his point brilliantly as

:03:28.:03:32.

always, and I agree with the main thrust of it but let us not get too

:03:33.:03:38.

optimistic before we close the deal. Perhaps this was prompted by

:03:39.:03:41.

warnings Theresa May heard at the G20 summit about the Brexit

:03:42.:03:45.

negotiations but the Prime Minister's intervention in in China

:03:46.:03:49.

was her adoption of the central commitment of the vote Leave

:03:50.:03:53.

campaign to take back control of the UK's borders while dropping their

:03:54.:03:57.

main idea for delivering that. What the British people voted for on the

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23rd June was to bring some control into the movement of people from the

:04:01.:04:05.

European Union into the UK. A points based system does not give you that

:04:06.:04:10.

Here, then, to talk us through the implications of what's

:04:11.:04:14.

being said and what isn't being said, Nick Watt, politics,

:04:15.:04:17.

Helen Thomas, business, Mark Urban, diplomacy.

:04:18.:04:18.

Let's break this down into four segments -

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migration, spending commitments, then economy, then

:04:24.:04:25.

We will start with that talk of taking control, we have heard that

:04:26.:04:34.

phrase of Britain's borderers where are we? Slight unease about Theresa

:04:35.:04:38.

May binning that Australian points system that was one of the main

:04:39.:04:44.

ideas of the vote Leave campaign. Nigel Farage said he was very

:04:45.:04:47.

worried about her language, but it is interesting some of the Tory

:04:48.:04:52.

Brexiteers were more relaxed. I spoke to Iain Duncan Smith, and he

:04:53.:04:56.

said he agrees the probable with the system is that the Government

:04:57.:05:00.

doesn't have control. But, he was slightly more suspicious of an idea

:05:01.:05:03.

that is doing the round in Downing Street, which is perhaps you could

:05:04.:05:06.

revive the original attention, intentions of the treaty of Rome

:05:07.:05:10.

which is to restore the free movement of workers, rather than

:05:11.:05:14.

people, and Iain Duncan Smith was telling me I think you need a work

:05:15.:05:16.

permit system, this is what he said. Work permits as a control

:05:17.:05:20.

process, aided and abetted if necessary by the idea

:05:21.:05:22.

of a points-based sifting system. That allows the UK to decide do

:05:23.:05:24.

companies and do areas, do we need those skills here,

:05:25.:05:27.

because we don't have them? If that is the case,

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what we are able to say to companies, the UK,

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you can recruit from overseas, to a certain degree,

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and we will let you have work But in other companies we might

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say, in other areas, to a certain degree,

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and we will let you have work But in other companies we might

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say, in other areas, low skilled perhaps,

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and whatever, no, there are plenty Well, that is what controls

:05:47.:05:49.

over your work permits and borders are about,

:05:50.:05:54.

deciding who you wanted to have in, The important thing is we,

:05:55.:05:56.

the UK Government, controls that The other thing we heard so much

:05:57.:06:06.

about during that campaign was the spending commitments and the pledges

:06:07.:06:08.

of where the money would go, any news on that? Well, I think we can

:06:09.:06:13.

officially pronounce the death of one of vote leave's main pledges on

:06:14.:06:18.

spending which is that the UK would have an extra ?350 million a week to

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spend because we would no longer have to pay the EU. David Davis was

:06:23.:06:26.

asked about this specific issue and he said simply, my job is to give

:06:27.:06:31.

Parliament control of the money, no mention of any figures but another

:06:32.:06:35.

pledge which is to match the spending that goes direct payments

:06:36.:06:38.

to farmers, David Davis said that would happen, that would be covered,

:06:39.:06:43.

but only until 2020, thereafter, that depends on the success of the

:06:44.:06:45.

economy. Let us move on the more numbers with

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Helen, good economic data, does this alter or shift how you are reading

:06:53.:06:57.

the economic data that has come from Brexit Brexit? The short-term, the

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figures are still good. Today we had this bounce back in services

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activity from July to ought, again rexxxx August, reversing the trend

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we saw after the vote. The economy isn't exactly booming but the fears

:07:12.:07:15.

of an immediate meltdown have lifted. But in the longer term

:07:16.:07:19.

business, just doesn't know where it stands. While we haven't seen any

:07:20.:07:25.

knee jerk reaction, there are problems, businesses make decisions

:07:26.:07:28.

years ahead of time, so Nissan will be decided next year where it is

:07:29.:07:32.

going to build a car that hits the streets in 2020. They will need

:07:33.:07:36.

answers about the UK's relationship with Europe more quickly than the

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Government is moving, the other problem is, as the negotiations

:07:41.:07:44.

start in earnest, it becomes harder to manage some of the worries so we

:07:45.:07:49.

have heard that passporting free access to Europe may not be

:07:50.:07:52.

realistic for the city. What senior bankers have told me is they

:07:53.:07:56.

immediately hear that and start thinking about the worst case

:07:57.:08:01.

scenario, so the Government needs to somehow manage these industries's

:08:02.:08:05.

expectations so they don't hundred down and send investment elsewhere.

:08:06.:08:08.

Part of that talk is the international trade relation, how

:08:09.:08:13.

did the G20 leave us, when all the photos are done and dusted. I think

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the key take away from G20 in a way is that the wider world is

:08:19.:08:23.

interested in Brexit, but only so much, out of nine densely typed

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pages there are just two sentences on the UK leaving the EU in there,

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and this focus, if it begins to wander, because every country has

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its own issues, and it is an issue, because if it looks possible from

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the positions we are hearing from David day visit we don't want the

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so-called Norway option, the full single market membership, we want

:08:47.:08:49.

access, those types of consideration we were hearing about there, about

:08:50.:08:54.

banks, passporting, you are then relying on good will and nations

:08:55.:08:58.

saying yes, you can come and trade here, it is much more complicated

:08:59.:09:03.

and questionable than the old car equation they want to sell us car,

:09:04.:09:07.

you know, where you can find acceptable terms of trade quickly,

:09:08.:09:11.

service is much more tricky, and again, at a conference last week in

:09:12.:09:17.

Italy, the forum, where we were, we spoke to people there and we heard

:09:18.:09:20.

passporting that kind of thing is far from certain from UK banks and

:09:21.:09:26.

they just want Britain to get on quickly, and spell out what we are

:09:27.:09:31.

seeking, this was the view of a former head of the European Central

:09:32.:09:33.

After all, the UK is creating the problem,

:09:34.:09:37.

it is shooting in its own feet, obviously, and has to, you know,

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be fully aware of the fact it is necessary to get out

:09:41.:09:43.

of the uncertain episode in which we are.

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And of course, it is also the overall superior interest

:09:48.:09:49.

of Europe as a whole and of the world, to limit

:09:50.:09:52.

the uncertainties that have been created by this move.

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So that word uncertainty probably not going away any time soon. Thank

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There was no manifesto ahead of the EU referendum.

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No party pledging policies or promises.

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Instead, there was a collection of voices from across the political

:10:18.:10:19.

divide, offering various scenarios of what Britain could be like,

:10:20.:10:22.

So what in the end did people vote for?

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And how do they think it's going so far?

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We talk to Michael Keeble, a retired restaurant manager

:10:31.:10:34.

from London, Danie Chance, a dental nurse from Nottingham,

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Mick Phipps, a barber from Essex, Elaine Sullivan, who runs

:10:38.:10:40.

a consultancy business near Reading, Martin Bontfort, a retired police

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inspector from Boston, Angela Garvin, a PA

:10:43.:10:44.

A warm welcome to you all. Now we have gone through the formalities we

:10:45.:10:59.

will get to the chase, I am going to ask you, in a sense for a show of

:11:00.:11:05.

hands, which of you would prioritise as the reason for voting, this

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question of sovereignty, of making our own law, being in charge. All of

:11:10.:11:14.

you, OK. So if I then said which of you would put as a priority if you

:11:15.:11:19.

could only choose one thing number, in terms of immigration, controlling

:11:20.:11:22.

the flow of people into this country, would any of your change

:11:23.:11:25.

your mind and say that was more important? Think it is going to be

:11:26.:11:32.

the numbers are going to be detailed depending on the platform we create

:11:33.:11:36.

for bids, I don't believe that we need to reduce immigration, I

:11:37.:11:40.

believe we need to create a great platform for businesses to come

:11:41.:11:44.

here, create job, we might double immigration some years, pull it back

:11:45.:11:48.

other year, I think you need to act on it more in the smaller sense and

:11:49.:11:54.

the entrepreneurial sense like a country acting on its own standards

:11:55.:11:57.

can do. We might find ourself in a good position that way. I think, I

:11:58.:12:01.

think it is not necessarily we only have to take that number of people,

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that number of people, we have to know how many we are taking, and

:12:06.:12:09.

where we are taking them. If the jobs are there. You don't want to

:12:10.:12:14.

create... We have a good infrastructure... A maximum wage as

:12:15.:12:19.

opposed to the minimum wage. So from what you have heard today and you

:12:20.:12:24.

heard from Nick watt that the points base system is not going to be the

:12:25.:12:29.

system Theresa May chooses, does that alter anything for you Michael?

:12:30.:12:34.

We need a points system that is completely in the way that we shape

:12:35.:12:38.

it. So when they dismiss a points system for Australia, of course,

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that is not, they don't have the same requirements as we do. But, if

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our points system could choose and pick and allow for ourselves,

:12:51.:12:58.

then... And adapt as well. Adapt. It is probably more about the economic

:12:59.:13:02.

side of it, so it is not necessarily having ex number of people that have

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met that bar to come in, it is what have we got to offer those people as

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they are coming in and how are they going to contribute when they

:13:11.:13:14.

arrive? OK. Let me pick up with Martin, I know you were worried that

:13:15.:13:19.

our politicians, you didn't have the confidence our politicians would

:13:20.:13:22.

sort this out, even if it was a yes to leave vote, did you, do you feel

:13:23.:13:27.

that things are going well now, better than you expected, worse? I

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don't know. I mean, the only thing I think is that the vote that we were

:13:32.:13:36.

given, that everybody was given was black-and-white, yes or no, in or

:13:37.:13:40.

out and now we are getting the shades of grey coming in and the

:13:41.:13:47.

grey areas, and I just don't think that people were aware of that

:13:48.:13:50.

sufficiently. Do any of you feel that you were duped at all? I mean,

:13:51.:13:55.

I know you have done your reading, you came into this well-informed, do

:13:56.:14:00.

any of you feel you were duped about what were told at the time? I think

:14:01.:14:07.

we will feel that, if... The information and the the information

:14:08.:14:11.

that you provided with, I think, you know, I think everyone could say

:14:12.:14:15.

that we were duped into believing certain things. It is good to say

:14:16.:14:20.

why? A lot of you have had a reaction from other people, to being

:14:21.:14:24.

Brexit voters, and Danie, what happened to you when the vote was to

:14:25.:14:31.

leave? Well, because I am in the Labour Party, and I was in mandated

:14:32.:14:40.

to be Remain, I was vocal about the fact I wanted the leave the EU, and

:14:41.:14:43.

immediately after the result came in, there was a lot of backlash that

:14:44.:14:50.

I received from not just people in the Labour Party, but people in

:14:51.:14:55.

every day life, really. I was branded you know, as racist, and

:14:56.:15:00.

things like that, and to me, immigration isn't a concern of mine,

:15:01.:15:05.

mine is more to do with the sovereignty and the democracy, and

:15:06.:15:08.

being able to govern ourselves rather than you know, having to

:15:09.:15:10.

listen to someone in the EU. Did anyone else have that experience

:15:11.:15:19.

of being seen in a different way? Sovereignty of our Parliament. I

:15:20.:15:24.

mean the response that people had? I think initially it was a band wagon

:15:25.:15:27.

that people got on. To continue to still be in that place now, those

:15:28.:15:31.

people are not being optimistic. They're not taking their

:15:32.:15:33.

opportunities in a changing environment. They need to change.

:15:34.:15:36.

They need to move on. Do you feel that the rest of the world has

:15:37.:15:41.

caught up? I mean, Angela, you were undecided right the way through. So,

:15:42.:15:46.

did you feel very passionate when you went to vote and was it very

:15:47.:15:50.

clear in your head which way you were going to or could you have gone

:15:51.:15:54.

either way? Towards the end I was pretty positive that I was going to

:15:55.:15:58.

vote out. I was undecided to begin with. But the more I did the

:15:59.:16:03.

research, the more I looked into things, the more I felt that we

:16:04.:16:11.

could cope and deal with our own, yeah have a positive feeling. It's

:16:12.:16:14.

really interesting because you're talking about the sense of

:16:15.:16:17.

confidence and belief, but essentially, the big questions are

:16:18.:16:21.

still ahead of us all. One of them is this compromise. Somewhere along

:16:22.:16:25.

the lines, we've all got to choose or the politicians have to choose -

:16:26.:16:29.

do we want to accept free movement, which could be more people coming in

:16:30.:16:33.

that we don't have control over, but it might give us that access still

:16:34.:16:38.

to remain in the single EU market, which one do we think is more

:16:39.:16:43.

important? As for as I'm concerned, I don't want to pay that price. The

:16:44.:16:46.

price of free movement. The price of free movement. Who agrees? If it

:16:47.:16:52.

means free movement... I don't think it will be. Being confident and

:16:53.:16:57.

optimistic about Great Britain, I think I'd like to see a news report

:16:58.:17:02.

on the other side of all these other countries, the 160 not part of the

:17:03.:17:06.

EU going Great Britain come and do business with us. You still think we

:17:07.:17:10.

can have it all? Yes. A fair amount of it. One of the things you know we

:17:11.:17:15.

won't have all, you were concerned about spending on hospitals and

:17:16.:17:19.

schools, that 100 million, that they promised, sounds like it's not going

:17:20.:17:23.

to the NHS. No. Are you surprised? It didn't surprise me at all. None

:17:24.:17:29.

of you believed that at the time? No. The slogans were a bit poor.

:17:30.:17:35.

Negative slogans were poor. It washed over me. It was spin. Do you

:17:36.:17:39.

think the politicians are on top of this? I think they're going to learn

:17:40.:17:45.

a massive lesson. I think no-one really knows what to do at the

:17:46.:17:48.

minute. That's why everything is taking so long. It's going to take

:17:49.:17:55.

two years to come out of the EU. To be honest, I think that's right,

:17:56.:17:59.

because we need to get it right. We need to do it well. If it takes -

:18:00.:18:07.

That's just a figure in itself. It was unexpected.

:18:08.:18:13.

If we're not coming out till 2019? I expect to come out before 2019. I

:18:14.:18:18.

think article 60 should be invoked in the first three months of next

:18:19.:18:22.

year so there is impetus behind their arguments and that there is a

:18:23.:18:26.

framework on which they can expect to build. There has to be a time

:18:27.:18:31.

frame. We're waiting for the back to school time table, aren't we? Yes.

:18:32.:18:34.

Thank you all very much. Echoes of Theresa Mays famous Brexit

:18:35.:18:36.

line seemed to work for questions When asked if he should step down

:18:37.:18:39.

from his position as head of the Home Affairs Select Committee,

:18:40.:18:44.

she replied "What Keith Any decisions he wishes to make

:18:45.:18:46.

are for him". Keith Vaz, filmed undercover

:18:47.:18:50.

with male prostitutes and splashed over the papers this weekend,

:18:51.:18:52.

has threatened to sue the Tory MP, So is this about wrongdoing,

:18:53.:18:55.

trust or something as nebulous as public opinion and the rights

:18:56.:19:02.

and wrongs of extra-marital sex? The kind of constituency function

:19:03.:19:22.

that makes many politicians' toes curl, a tee dance for example, has

:19:23.:19:28.

never been a problem for Keith Vaz. How are things with you? That's a

:19:29.:19:31.

very pretty dress. Is that yours? Yes. Here he was woulding voters

:19:32.:19:38.

some 30 years ago, just before he was returned to Parliament for

:19:39.:19:46.

Leicester east. The Labour Party candidate is elected as the member

:19:47.:19:50.

for Leicester east. The first Asian MP in the Commons since colonial

:19:51.:19:55.

times. We fought on the issues of jobs, housing, education and health.

:19:56.:20:02.

So I'm absolutely delighted. Keith, a bachelor, lives with his mother in

:20:03.:20:06.

Leicester. She's a local councillor in his constituency. I was late. I

:20:07.:20:13.

got back at 2am. Were you awake? I certainly have had representations

:20:14.:20:16.

from members of the Asian community from every city in Britain and

:20:17.:20:20.

indeed, from many places outside Britain and I'm conscious of the

:20:21.:20:24.

fact that my work has to also include their aspirations and their

:20:25.:20:29.

desires. It was such a significant moment. For us Asians, of course,

:20:30.:20:33.

that you could, you weren't destined to be the small, quiet shop keeper

:20:34.:20:37.

for the whole of your life, but also, in terms of the black struggle

:20:38.:20:42.

and power, and the story of this nation. In all the brickbats slung

:20:43.:20:51.

at Keith Vaz he's never been accused of being a shrinking violet. When a

:20:52.:20:56.

Bollywood star drew fans to a signing in Leicester, the local MP

:20:57.:21:00.

was on hand. All I can say to you, as a former member of Parliament, is

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please don't stand in Leicester east. After Tony Blair entered

:21:03.:21:10.

Downing Street, Vaz, by now married, joined the Government and became

:21:11.:21:16.

minister for Europe in 1999. Soon he was dogged by controversy. He was

:21:17.:21:22.

accused of using his influence to help the wealthy Indian Hiduja

:21:23.:21:27.

brothers gain citizenship. A Parliamentary Standards watchdog

:21:28.:21:33.

accused him of seekericy. Though he was cleared of benefitting

:21:34.:21:38.

personally. In 2002, Vaz was suspended from the Commons for a

:21:39.:21:44.

month over vals allegations against a former senior policewoman. He was

:21:45.:21:48.

found to have given misleading information to the House Standards

:21:49.:21:52.

and Privileges Committee. I couldn't bear it that so many of his inner

:21:53.:22:02.

circle were, in my view, unwholesome, rich Asians and that

:22:03.:22:06.

sometimes he didn't know, seem to know the boundaries of public

:22:07.:22:11.

office, but all that, I say, changed in the last decade. I have a final

:22:12.:22:18.

question for you... It's not quite a variety show. You're providing a

:22:19.:22:23.

little bit of variety though. Making it more like Dad's Army. Keith Vaz

:22:24.:22:29.

re-invented himself as the suave and low quashs chair of the powerful

:22:30.:22:34.

Home Affairs Select Committee. His colleagues have mixed feelings about

:22:35.:22:39.

his tenure. Too much desire for publicity, it could be said for the

:22:40.:22:43.

committee, but also for himself. I think to some extent, it undermind,

:22:44.:22:50.

and I emphasise, to some extent, the credibility of the committee. After

:22:51.:22:55.

allegations in a Sunday paper, involving Mr Vaz and male escorts,

:22:56.:22:59.

it's widely expected he'll confirm tomorrow that he's stepping down as

:23:00.:23:03.

chair of the committee, which has been reviewing prostitution laws. Mr

:23:04.:23:09.

Vaz says he's referring the matter to his lawyers, calling the role of

:23:10.:23:14.

the newspaper "deeply troubling". Tonight the former trailblazer is a

:23:15.:23:18.

figure of ridicule, though he's been around long enough, he's already

:23:19.:23:22.

read his political obituaries more than once before.

:23:23.:23:24.

Let's talk about the ethics of the revelations and the questions

:23:25.:23:26.

of trust with our two Ians - Dale, writer and LBC radio

:23:27.:23:29.

presenter, and Dunt, editor of politics.co.uk.

:23:30.:23:33.

Very nice of you to come in. I'm going to give the first question to

:23:34.:23:42.

whichever of you can tell me what Keith Vaz has actually done wrong.

:23:43.:23:47.

He's done something wrong for his wife and his family. It is their

:23:48.:23:50.

business, of course. That's a pretty significant failing. So this is

:23:51.:23:55.

about private morality then? Insofar as marriage comes into it, it's

:23:56.:23:59.

private. For us, it is absolutely none of our business and it doesn't

:24:00.:24:03.

affect his work either as MP or as chair of the Home Affairs Select

:24:04.:24:06.

Committee. If he were just a backbench MP, Ian would be right.

:24:07.:24:10.

But he is chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee. I think

:24:11.:24:14.

higher standards apply there. Having said, that as an electorate we

:24:15.:24:17.

always say we want politicians to reflect the society we live in. 90%

:24:18.:24:21.

of the people watching this programme will have done something

:24:22.:24:24.

in their lives, sexually or not, that they wouldn't like to see -

:24:25.:24:32.

90%? I bet that's right. In terms of your phone-ins you would say that...

:24:33.:24:36.

I did a phone-in on this this evening, I would say 80% of the

:24:37.:24:40.

callers were saying, this is all really unfair. Just let him get on

:24:41.:24:43.

with it. He shouldn't have to step down. I take a different view in

:24:44.:24:48.

that it's all very well to say, well, he's involved in these enquire

:24:49.:24:55.

into prostitution and legalisation or criminalisation of drugs and he

:24:56.:24:59.

hasn't done anything that's hypocritical. Well he has. The point

:25:00.:25:03.

of the one on prostitution was to look at whether men should be

:25:04.:25:06.

criminalised for paying for prostitutes. That's not hypocrisy.

:25:07.:25:09.

That means he's a consumer of the things that he's investigating. It

:25:10.:25:14.

came out with a different conclusion that that shouldn't happen. That's

:25:15.:25:20.

still not hypocrisy. I'm not saying he swayed that committee because of

:25:21.:25:24.

his own private interests. It matters what the general public

:25:25.:25:27.

thinks. So it's his position on prostitution that you think is the

:25:28.:25:30.

key thing? No, it's not just that. If you look at the drugs issue. I

:25:31.:25:34.

mean, you say he's done nothing wrong. We don't know whether the

:25:35.:25:40.

allegation that he tried to procure drugs for the escorts is true or

:25:41.:25:44.

not. No doubt that will come out. He suggested that he would pay for

:25:45.:25:48.

drugs that he was getting himself. He wasn't found in possession or

:25:49.:25:52.

found getting their drugs. He hasn't done anything wrong there. If I

:25:53.:25:57.

offered to buy you drugs, I would have a police officer waiting for me

:25:58.:26:03.

to arrest me. He hasn't really been found trying to procure the drugs

:26:04.:26:07.

and it is legal to use a sex worker in this country, there are shadows

:26:08.:26:10.

there about whether they're controlled or not. He has not broken

:26:11.:26:18.

any laws here. We don't know that. Let him finish. Anyone who looks at

:26:19.:26:22.

a subject cannot be a consumer as well, we are about to enter into an

:26:23.:26:27.

extremely twisted political culture. For instance, his previous

:26:28.:26:29.

investigations were on immigration. One could start asking him, well do

:26:30.:26:34.

you have any cousins, siblings who suffered through immigration. He is

:26:35.:26:37.

as affected by that as in this case as well. What if it was an

:26:38.:26:42.

investigation into some kind of tax avoidance scheme, when he had - The

:26:43.:26:46.

difference there is there's a financial interest. You have to

:26:47.:26:49.

declare in Parliament where you have financial interests. Only financial

:26:50.:26:53.

has a conflict of interest? Typically that's where corruption is

:26:54.:26:59.

most pervasive. We don't have for declarations for personal morality.

:27:00.:27:02.

It's a dangerous game to start asking people to tell us about their

:27:03.:27:06.

private life. This would be very different ten years ago. Something

:27:07.:27:10.

has changed where 90% of your callers... I'm not looking at this

:27:11.:27:15.

from personal morality. I think prostitution should be legalised. If

:27:16.:27:19.

someone wants to pay someone for sex and it's consensual, no problem at

:27:20.:27:25.

all. However, Brooks Newmark was forced to resign because he sent a

:27:26.:27:30.

text, a picture of himself that he shouldn't have done. Are we saying

:27:31.:27:34.

that is more serious... He was forced to resign? He did resign. If

:27:35.:27:38.

you say I'm too embarrassed... Jeremy Corbyn says this is a private

:27:39.:27:47.

matter. Why has he suspended Simon Danchu KFOR what he did. In terms of

:27:48.:27:53.

the question you raise at the beginning which was, put them, do

:27:54.:27:57.

you put our Select Committee heads in a higher etch lob of society,

:27:58.:28:03.

that's not -- echelon of society, that's not OK. If we have this

:28:04.:28:07.

dislocation - You can't have it both ways. You either say all of our

:28:08.:28:10.

politicians should be whiter than white at all times, which is clearly

:28:11.:28:14.

not going to happen. Or you say, well there are some positions in

:28:15.:28:18.

society, some, not all, but some in politics, where if you are caught

:28:19.:28:23.

doing this sort of thing, I'm afraid it is incumbent of you to fall on

:28:24.:28:28.

your sword. You take Churchill. He was a functioning alcoholic. If we

:28:29.:28:35.

want to hold up this standard, there's no-one higher than the Prime

:28:36.:28:39.

Minister. Is it about likability or popularity? Partly. It's about

:28:40.:28:45.

curtain twitching moral puritanism. The only variable in these stories,

:28:46.:28:50.

no-one cares if someone who eats sugar is on a committee to regulate

:28:51.:28:55.

sugar. But when it comes to sex and drugs, because we suspect people are

:28:56.:29:00.

having more fun like we are. They probably are. Certainly in my case!

:29:01.:29:05.

We have a whole Green Room. The party starts here. Thank you for

:29:06.:29:07.

coming in. The right-wing nationalist party

:29:08.:29:08.

Alternative for Germany have pushed Angela Merkel's ruling conservatives

:29:09.:29:11.

into third place in The party, founded three years ago,

:29:12.:29:13.

was an anti-Euro party, but it has turned its focus

:29:14.:29:17.

to immigration and Islam. It now has delegates in more than

:29:18.:29:20.

half of Germany's state parliaments. Last night's elections come

:29:21.:29:24.

as a stark warning that Merkel's immigration policy is not uniformly

:29:25.:29:26.

popular with the German people. It was an invitation that put

:29:27.:29:39.

the world's migrants on the move and encouraged and confounded

:29:40.:29:42.

Europe. Angela Merkel's offer to receive

:29:43.:29:44.

a million refuges was as bold She has been lauded for a humane

:29:45.:29:46.

response to a world in turmoil and villified for creating

:29:47.:29:52.

a situation seemingly without end, as thousands upon thousands

:29:53.:29:57.

left their home and headed to the new Jerusalem -

:29:58.:30:00.

this time, Berlin. But after a summer of terror,

:30:01.:30:04.

Germany is a country now looking at itself in new ways and wondering

:30:05.:30:10.

if that largesse was badly aimed. The elections this weekend -

:30:11.:30:16.

though small in scale - suggest the start of a backlash

:30:17.:30:20.

against Merkel's plans Just look at her personal approval

:30:21.:30:23.

rating. From a high of 75% as recently

:30:24.:30:29.

as last April, to 54% and 49% in the months following the decision

:30:30.:30:36.

to take in hundreds And after briefly recovering

:30:37.:30:40.

following the Brexit vote, Merkel's rating plunged

:30:41.:30:46.

to a five-year low in the wake But today, Merkel was resolute

:30:47.:30:49.

and stood by her refugee policy. TRANSLATION: Of course,

:30:50.:30:54.

the result is related I am party chair, the Chancellor,

:30:55.:30:57.

and in the eyes of voters, I nevertheless believe

:30:58.:31:02.

the decision on refugees, And now we must

:31:03.:31:10.

continue to work on it. Even so, any further ratings dips

:31:11.:31:16.

for Merkel and her party could put next year's national elections -

:31:17.:31:19.

and the way Merkel chooses to fight Earlier, I spoke to Beatrix von

:31:20.:31:22.

Storch, MEP and deputy leader of the AFD and asked her how

:31:23.:31:26.

she saw the result. If it comes to migration

:31:27.:31:38.

politics, it's both. It is the complete numbers

:31:39.:31:40.

which already came. This is the first problem,

:31:41.:31:45.

we are not able to integrate so many people within our labour market

:31:46.:31:50.

and within our society. It is not possible,

:31:51.:31:52.

just by the number. Because it is not possible

:31:53.:31:57.

to integrate those people, because they are not making part

:31:58.:31:59.

of our cultural background, so we see that we can't

:32:00.:32:04.

run our social welfare state We can't keep our standard,

:32:05.:32:07.

if we try to integrate into this So it is not about

:32:08.:32:13.

Islam, specifically? Well, Islam, of course,

:32:14.:32:17.

plays a role, because the majority of people coming to us

:32:18.:32:20.

are from Islam backgrounds, Muslims, so this makes it even more difficult

:32:21.:32:23.

to integrate the people. This is what we experienced in

:32:24.:32:25.

the past, it is not the first time. We have got already lots of migrants

:32:26.:32:29.

who came, lots of years ago, they integrated well,

:32:30.:32:32.

but others not, and we can see that those coming from Islam

:32:33.:32:41.

background are much more difficult to integrate into our society

:32:42.:32:43.

than other cultures. You would say, then,

:32:44.:32:51.

your party has a specific problem The German society has

:32:52.:32:54.

a specific problem. Our claim saying Islam does not

:32:55.:33:06.

belong to Germany is supported by something like 30-

:33:07.:33:08.

35% of German people, so this is not something

:33:09.:33:10.

which is only in our mind, people are voting for us because we

:33:11.:33:13.

have that line very clear. You, your party said some time ago

:33:14.:33:18.

that German police should be allowed to shoot at refugees

:33:19.:33:22.

illegally entering Germany. No, we made very clear we don't

:33:23.:33:24.

want to shoot at anybody, and this is why specifically

:33:25.:33:32.

we ask our Chancellor to stop co-operating with Mr Eregan

:33:33.:33:35.

from Turkey to protect our borders, but what we can see in Europe

:33:36.:33:42.

at the moment is that there is one What do you mean, you don't

:33:43.:33:46.

want to shoot at anyone? You did say that and now

:33:47.:33:51.

you don't believe it? We don't want to shoot at anybody,

:33:52.:33:53.

and that way we can see is one can protect its borders

:33:54.:33:58.

without using a gun. The only one who is using a gun,

:33:59.:34:00.

who is killing people, This is the one Merkel has handed

:34:01.:34:06.

over our border control, and our point is very clear,

:34:07.:34:10.

we want to protect our own borders Why did you say that,

:34:11.:34:13.

was that a mistake? We made it clear we don't

:34:14.:34:17.

want to shoot anybody. What we said is it needs

:34:18.:34:20.

the political will to We can see that all the states

:34:21.:34:24.

who have closed down Do you think that policy will spell

:34:25.:34:28.

the end for Angela Merkel? You have done well this time round,

:34:29.:34:35.

but you are not in first place yet, and there are many places

:34:36.:34:39.

you don't have seats. What we say is this is the beginning

:34:40.:34:43.

of the end of Angela Merkel. We have just been, we just came

:34:44.:34:47.

in second in the federal state, where Angela Merkel comes from,

:34:48.:34:50.

so it is her home place We don't have the majority

:34:51.:34:52.

of the votes yet, and what we see of course is that the politics

:34:53.:35:03.

is shifting at least into our direction, that even CDU

:35:04.:35:06.

and CSU are making more and more points we have in our programme,

:35:07.:35:09.

because they see that people want to have the politic taken

:35:10.:35:12.

in another direction. Basically the opposite direction

:35:13.:35:19.

of what the Chancellor is taking. So we have an impact

:35:20.:35:22.

on the politics already, you are right, we have not yet

:35:23.:35:24.

gained the majority of the votes, but if the Chancellor sticks

:35:25.:35:27.

to her line, that will happen Did the counter cultural

:35:28.:35:29.

revolution of the 60s give us the technological revolution

:35:30.:35:44.

we have now? An exhibition at the V

:35:45.:35:46.

is exploring the significance of late 1960s, expressed

:35:47.:35:48.

through some of the greatest music, Oh my God, look at the picture over

:35:49.:35:51.

there, the earth coming up. The late 60s were an era of huge

:35:52.:36:12.

change - everything from fashion, to cultural and political attitudes,

:36:13.:36:22.

to civil rights were in flux. And how we viewed ourselves

:36:23.:36:30.

was being redefined. With the moon missions,

:36:31.:36:34.

humans for the first time saw the earth,

:36:35.:36:37.

our planet, from space. An image taken by the

:36:38.:36:39.

astronaut William Anders It has been called the most

:36:40.:36:41.

important image of the 20th century. The whole earth appears

:36:42.:36:50.

in its fragile vulnerability and it seems to turn people's thoughts back

:36:51.:36:53.

to what is going on in the earth. At London's V museum revolution is

:36:54.:37:13.

in the air. Newsnight has been given a preview of the latest exhibition

:37:14.:37:18.

encompassing five revolutionary years to 1970. It was a time when

:37:19.:37:23.

the space race was on when students were demonstrating on campus and on

:37:24.:37:30.

the streets when music fish mar toes were gathering for festival, when

:37:31.:37:33.

The Beatles were taken their ideas into the mass media. You say you

:37:34.:37:38.

want a revolution is an attempt to show how the world was trans formed

:37:39.:37:42.

in a few years. You can't underestimate how important the

:37:43.:37:45.

revolution in the head was, as people changed their mind-set from

:37:46.:37:49.

what had been the case in the early 60s, where people did look up to the

:37:50.:37:53.

establishment, they expected the Government to do a good job and be

:37:54.:37:56.

right and by the end of the era you feel that people are doing it for

:37:57.:38:01.

themselves and that sets us up for the next 50 years. I was excited. I

:38:02.:38:07.

felt like I was part of it, and I thought that the whole world was

:38:08.:38:12.

changing, the world was changing, but it didn't quite go exactly the

:38:13.:38:21.

way everybody thought it would. Lloyd was involved in the Whole

:38:22.:38:30.

Earth catalogue, a manual for the counter revolution. They pushed Nasa

:38:31.:38:36.

to release an image of the whole earth, handing out badges after what

:38:37.:38:44.

he described as a creative LSD trip. Everything from the best lamps to

:38:45.:38:49.

information on the first completes, and it influenced Steve Jobs.

:38:50.:38:57.

When I was young, there was an amazing publication called the whole

:38:58.:39:01.

earth catalogue, it was like Google in paper back form 35 years beforele

:39:02.:39:07.

came along, it was idealistic, overflowing with neat tools and

:39:08.:39:11.

great notions. When I saw it on YouTube I thought that is pretty

:39:12.:39:15.

great, that what we were doing back then was picked up on by this guy

:39:16.:39:19.

and you know, and see what he has done. The whole earth catalogue was

:39:20.:39:25.

part of it. It was part of what shaped the ideology that, and I

:39:26.:39:28.

think that, I think that the idea was with those guys back then they

:39:29.:39:31.

wanted to connect everybody in the world.

:39:32.:39:36.

In a sense that has happened. Back then both the hippies living in

:39:37.:39:41.

communities and the pioneers of modern completing shared a belief

:39:42.:39:45.

that a better world would come from pooling human knowledge. Those early

:39:46.:39:49.

ideals of sharing it freely are clearly not exactly as we live now,

:39:50.:39:57.

so for all that we have amazing communications, and imagine setting

:39:58.:40:01.

up Woodstock in 1969 without any of that, it is mind-boggling, we can do

:40:02.:40:06.

that now but at the same time we have surveillance culture, big

:40:07.:40:08.

business taking over this freedom of knowledge, we have the dark web, we

:40:09.:40:14.

have our time taken up living on tiny machines, perhaps that takes

:40:15.:40:18.

our mind away from bigger issues. So it is not, certainly not as they

:40:19.:40:22.

would have envy Sans. What Richard has done for the underground is

:40:23.:40:28.

promote its image. Back then Richard Neville co-founder of the Oz

:40:29.:40:31.

magazine whose death was announced today had high hopes for what

:40:32.:40:36.

technology would do. He even devised a game in poster form, a history of

:40:37.:40:40.

the counterculture this anticipation of the free time for playing games

:40:41.:40:44.

that would frult the digital revolution. It didn't happen of

:40:45.:40:48.

course, and whether the power of modern day Silicon Valley is a

:40:49.:40:52.

sell-out of the 60s values or the ultimate expression of them, really

:40:53.:40:57.

depends on your perspective. We were you kept together? We were

:40:58.:41:05.

kept in the same cell. The trial of Richard and his foal low editors

:41:06.:41:10.

symbolises the end of an era for the exhibition, the finale to a time

:41:11.:41:13.

when the young were imagining new ways to live.

:41:14.:41:19.

They all came together, because the common enemy was society, as it was

:41:20.:41:25.

at that time. Very very straight and constrained, and it still is,

:41:26.:41:29.

actually, so as for the lasting effect I am not too sure.

:41:30.:41:37.

For the V the legacy comes in the form of the landmark legal changes

:41:38.:41:42.

to civil and gay rights, equal pay and the right to abortion which all

:41:43.:41:46.

emerges from this defining time. -- emerged.

:41:47.:41:47.

That's it for tonight, on what would have been

:41:48.:41:50.

Since he died in 1991, there's been no-one who had his weird talent

:41:51.:41:54.

for controlling a gigantic stadium of people like so many

:41:55.:41:58.

We leave you back in 1985, Wembley Stadium and Rock Music's

:41:59.:42:01.

# Buddy you're a boy, make a big noise

:42:02.:42:19.

# Playin' in the street, gonna be a big man some day

:42:20.:42:22.

# You got mud on your face, big disgrace

:42:23.:42:24.

# Kickin' your can all over the place

:42:25.:42:26.

Good evening, there is a humid sticky feel to the weather across

:42:27.:43:03.

much of the country overnight. And the same can be said

:43:04.:43:04.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis. Are we any the wiser about Brexit today? Does Keith Vaz deserve privacy? Is Merkel heading for election defeat? And did the 1960s seed the digital revolution?


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