06/09/2016 Newsnight


06/09/2016

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark, as MPs call for a pause in arms sales to Saudi Arabia.


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Transcript


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It has been fast and furious in the Newsnight office today -

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a string of exclusive stories, from arms sales to Saudi Arabia,

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to a row over classifying athletes for the Paralympics and Hollywood's

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hottest comedy property, Amy Schumer.

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This is how the Saudis are fighting the war in Yemen.

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Tonight, we've learned a committee of MPs is about to demand a pause

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This is how the Saudis are fighting the war in Yemen.

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Tonight, we've learned a committee of MPs is about to demand a pause

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in arms sales to Saudia Arabia because of attacks like this one.

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At around 4.00pm in the afternoon patients, doctors, nurses here could

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Now, they didn't think it would strike, not only because this

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is a residential area, but because this is a hospital.

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However, an air strike did hit, right over here, killing

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After the success of 2012, the Paralympics begin in Rio

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tomorrow, dogged by controversy over doping, ticket sales

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Now, we reveal troubling questions about how

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Both national and international classification, I think it's

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not fit for purpose, it's not sufficiently robust

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We meet the irrespressible American comedian, Amy Schumer.

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If it isn't Hillary in November, does your act change?

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My act will change because I'll need to learn to speak Spanish

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because I will move to Spain or somewhere.

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Newsnight has seen a leaked report which suggests that the Government

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may be heading for a major embarrassment over its continued

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support for British arms sales to Saudi Arabia.

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Over the past year, our reporter, Gabriel Gatehouse, has repeatedly

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documented the targeting of civilians and civilian

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infrastructure, including factories and hospitals,

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in the Saudi-led bombing campaign in Yemen.

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And yet, as late as yesterday, the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson,

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defended British arms sales to Saudi Arabia for use in Yemen,

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saying the campaign is not in clear breach

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But Gabriel has now learned that the Commons Committee

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of Arms Export Controls takes a very different and damning view.

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What's the story? A background to this. In July this year, on the last

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day of parliament before the summer recess, in what is known as take out

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the trash day. The day the Government releases potentially

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embarrassing information. The Foreign Office made a startled a MiG

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when it said over a period of six months the Government had assessed

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that Saudi Arabia wasn't in breach of international humanitarian law in

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Yemen it admitted it had made no such assessment at all. It replied

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on Saudi assertions. You mentioned Boris Johnson's continued support

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for arms sales to Saudi Arabia saying there wasn't enough evidence

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to suggest that Saudi Arabia was committing war crimes. Well, this

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report from the committee on arms export control. It's a draft report,

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it concludes the opposite. It says the weight of evidence is so great

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that the UK should suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia for use in

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Yemen until an independent and international inquiry can establish

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the truth. Now, both sides in this conflict have been accused of

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committing war crimes, but the UN says 60% of the civilian casualties

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are caused by Saudi led air strikes. This programme highlighted targeting

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of countryians. We saw that Yemen last year. We travelled travelled

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with our correspondent who has been back to Yemen for a documentary for

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Our World. She's come back and here is some what she found.

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Yemen has been under constant bombardment for the last 18 months.

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A conflict between Houthi rebels and a Saudi-led coalition.

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Both sides have been accused of war crimes, but it is the Saudis

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that the UK and its western allies are backing.

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I was in Houthi-held territory in northern Yemen,

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three weeks ago, when a nearby Medecins Sans Frontieres' hospital

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This footage was filmed by local residents immediately

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after the attack, which ended up killing 19 people.

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TRANSLATION: All the patients were at ease, some were sleeping.

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There were sleeping children and there were mothers giving birth.

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There were no Houthis or any armed people in the hospital only

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the doctors and nurses who work here.

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At around 4.00pm in the afternoon, patients, doctors, nurses

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here could hear aeroplanes flying overhead.

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They didn't think it would strike, not only because this

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is a residential area, but because this is a hospital.

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But an air strike did hit, right over here by the emergency

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TRANSLATION: People lost their jobs and homes.

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All of this is nothing compared to the loss of people's life.

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Who's responsible for what is happening to us?

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Saudi Arabia claims that the targeting of the hospital

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was a mistake, but MSF insists that all parties to the conflict have

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been provided with clear GPS coordinates of the

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TRANSLATIoN: It is markings for the coalition to

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They were fully aware and we contact them on a daily basis and tell them

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of MSF's whereabouts and this logo is painted on the roof

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to differentiate this building from all other buildings and yet

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19-year-old Amon was a local MS volunteer.

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He had just driven his ambulance through the hospital gates

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He and the patients in the back of his ambulance were all killed.

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TRANSLATION: He came home at 1.00pm to have lunch and went back to work.

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At 3.00pm we heard the bombing of the air strike.

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I was screaming, "my son, my son, my son."

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Someone else said he was in the ambulance,

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I found my son underneath the cupboards,

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completely burnt, like a piece of coal.

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This was the fourth MSF hospital to have been destroyed

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The charity has now withdrawn from northern Yemen.

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The country's infrastructure has been devastated.

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Meanwhile, nearly 4,000 Yemeni civilians have been killed

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What is in the committee report? The committee is made up of MPs from

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four other select committees, defence, foreign affairs,

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international development and business. All the committees

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involved in the export of arms. This copy that we've got hold of is a

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draft. The committee will meet tomorrow to discuss possible

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changes. We don't know what the final language is going to sound

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like. As it stands, the report says that the weight of evidence of

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violations of international humanitarian law, by the Saudi-led

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coalition in Yemen, is now so great that it is very difficult to

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continue to support Saudi Arabia while maintaining the credibility of

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our arms licencing regime. Now, in the summary it says that given the

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scale and the history of UK arms exports to Saudi Arabia it's

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"inevitable" that any violations of international law by the Saudi-led

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coalition would involve arms supplied by the UK. The fact that

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the Government has not supported efforts to establish an independent

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international inquiry, the report says, "has allowed for the transfer

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of items to Saudi Arabia very possibly in contravention of the

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UK's legal obligations while doubt and uncertainty about IHL compliance

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in Yemen exists the default position of the UK Government should be not

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to sell weapons" to us spend weapon sales. What does the law is a? Where

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there is a clear risk items might be used in commission of serious

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violation of international humanitarian law. It's whether there

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is insufficient evidence to support that, as the Government contends.

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This report concludes there is ample evidence. The Government says it has

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one of the strictest licencing regimes in the world. Since the

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conflict began it hasn't refused a single export licence to Saudi

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Arabia. This is what the draft report has to say on the matter. "We

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have found that the Government's arms export licencing regime, which

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it repeatedly asserts is robust, is in fact, to a large extent, opaque

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and the Government too often relies on assertion rather thanes positive

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evidence. " What weight does the committee report actually have, will

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have, when it comes out? The committee has weight, but it doesn't

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have the power to force the Government to change policy. It does

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have the power to force it to come and explain itself in front of the

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committee. There is another thing going on. There is a legal case, the

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campaign group, Campaign Against The Arms Trade, is taking the Government

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to court over its arms sales to Saudi Arabia. It will go to judicial

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review. There will be a hearing early next year. I spoke to their

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lawyers this evening. They have written to the Ministry of Defence

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urgently seeking clarification about these assertions that they'd

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assessed, the Government had assessed, that Saudi Arabia wasn't

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in breach of international humanitarian law. They say that the

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Government has apparently placed inaccurate and misleading statements

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before the court. They haven't yet heard back. Gabriel, thanks vuch

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indeed. -- thanks very much indeed. When the Paralympics

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begin in Rio tomorrow the competition will be fierce and,

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for the athletes, it will be the culmination of everything

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they have worked for. But after the triumph of London

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2012, it feels like a key moment for the Paralympics,

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with problems over tickets sales, the exclusion of the Russian team

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because of a doping scandal, sponsorship issues,

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and now the latest - Here's our exclusive

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report by Hannah Barnes. From its humble origins as a

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competition for injured British servicemen and women after the

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Second World War, the Paralympic legacy has gone from strength to

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strength. Just 16 people took part in the fist contest in 1948, but

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over the next 10 days more than 4,000 athletes will vie for the

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medals in Rio. But could there be a problem with the foundations the

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Paralympics are built upon It's something that's been going on for

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decades. It's the worst kept secret in sport. As with any system of

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clarification there will be potential for people to be at the

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higher end or the lower end. Increased success and status for the

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Paralympics has brought increased scrutiny with questions being raised

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about the classification process which determines which category

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athletes should be placed in to ensure competition is fair. So, how

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does it work? The aim of the classification system is to make

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sure that athletes are competing against opponents who have similar

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or equal impairments. To start with, there are 10 broad categories that

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athletes are assigned to. They include eight physical groups of

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impairments, fore, loss of limb or limb deficient i or conditions

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common to people with cerebral palsy. On top of these there are two

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further groups. Visual impairment and intellectual impairment. Within

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those different categories it's broken down further to try to make

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things even fairer. Let's take track athletes, for example, who have

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cerebral palsies or other neurological conditions that affect

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muscle co-ordination and control. Within this group there are eight

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separate classes that an athlete can be place in depending on the

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severity of their condition. The first four are for athletes who need

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a racing wheelchair to compete. The others are for those who compete

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standing up. Now, the idea is that as you go through these classes,

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they are numbered 31-38 in this case an athletes condition becomes less

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severe. Several people, including former medal winning British

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Paralympians, have voiced concerns about how the classification process

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is working in practice. Both national and international

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classification I think it is... It's not fit for purpose. It's not

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sufficiently robust. It is too easily manipulated. Michael Breen's

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daughter is competing for Team GB in Rio. She was diagnosed with cerebral

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palsy as a young child. He complained to UK athletics saying

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that classification doesn't appear to be working. When you watch the

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Paralympics over the coming weeks, and you see one athlete running

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significantly further ahead than the rest of the other athletes, I would

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simply say that you should perhaps ask yourself the question - whatever

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impairment that particular athlete has, is it the same as the

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impairments of the other athletes who are say 20 or 30 meters behind?

:14:46.:14:51.

UK athletics told Newsnight that his complaint was fully investigated by

:14:52.:14:55.

them and the International Paralympic Committee and was found

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to be without any merit. An email, seen by Newsnight, confirms he

:15:00.:15:04.

wasn't alone in being worried. Last year Great Britain's head coach

:15:05.:15:08.

emailed athletes to say she had to deal with parents, coaches and

:15:09.:15:14.

others who felt discontent about the classifications of some athletes.

:15:15.:15:18.

Email says that British athletics will have no hesitation in taking

:15:19.:15:23.

legal action against anyone found to have made basesless allegations in

:15:24.:15:28.

the public domain. UK athletes insists they were not discouraging

:15:29.:15:34.

whistleblowers but trying to avoid unsubstantiated allegations being

:15:35.:15:37.

aired publicly. There are also concerns from people who have been

:15:38.:15:42.

denied classification. Daniel Brown suffers from complex regional pain

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syndrome. After winning gold in archery at both the Beijing and

:15:47.:15:54.

London Paralympics, she was told by two IPC classifiers,

:15:55.:15:57.

psychotherapists who she said didn't consult her medical history she was

:15:58.:16:01.

too able-bodied to compete any more. I went through a whole identity

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crisis. I was an elite athlete, I wasn't. I'm a disabled person, and

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I'm not disabled enough. I get frustrated doing simple things like

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carrying a cup of tea and throwing it yaefr where and I want to say -

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why can't they see that and understand my life is affected this

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way. It's critical people have faith in

:16:24.:16:32.

the classification system. You want to know what you're watching is what

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you think you're watching. I believe the classification system delivers

:16:37.:16:40.

that. There will be people who feel unhappy with some of the decision

:16:41.:16:42.

that is have been made. If people have strong claims they need to

:16:43.:16:45.

bring the evidence to back up those claims.

:16:46.:16:50.

Millions of people will tune in and over the next ten days to watch one

:16:51.:16:57.

of the world's most fiercest fought sporting competitions. Those in

:16:58.:17:01.

charge of the Games will hope questions over the classification

:17:02.:17:03.

will not cast too much of a shadow over the event.

:17:04.:17:07.

A UK Athletics spokesperson told us that...

:17:08.:17:08.

"Classification of all international para-athletes is handled exclusively

:17:09.:17:10.

by the International Paralympic Committee.

:17:11.:17:16.

UK Athletics is confident of the classification of all British

:17:17.:17:18.

athletes who will be competing in Rio and we always co-operate 100%

:17:19.:17:21.

with the IPC to ensure that all GB athletes are correctly classified

:17:22.:17:24.

Where concerns have been raised, UKA has correctly responded

:17:25.:17:30.

by requesting that the IPC check medical and procedural records

:17:31.:17:37.

to either ratify or change the athlete's classification."

:17:38.:17:39.

Joining us from Rio is Doctor Peter Van de Vliet,

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he's Medical Director of the International

:17:43.:17:44.

Good evening. First, do you believe that the system is absolutely

:17:45.:17:54.

watertight, robust and utterly fair? The system is as fair as it is with

:17:55.:18:01.

the actual knowledge for the moment. I think it is also fair to say that

:18:02.:18:05.

we remain very critical and we owe it to our athletes to be very

:18:06.:18:09.

critical that the system can be improved. And with further our

:18:10.:18:14.

understanding and our knowledge on the relationship between impairment

:18:15.:18:18.

and activity limitations on a daily basis and that knowledge needs to

:18:19.:18:22.

translate in the rules to secure classification for the future. It is

:18:23.:18:25.

interesting to do acknowledge you do have problems and I wonder about a

:18:26.:18:33.

system where medical history isn't is taken into account. It is the

:18:34.:18:38.

effort on the day that is assessed for impairment of whatever degree.

:18:39.:18:47.

Is that a failing? No. It is very important to make a distinction that

:18:48.:18:52.

when we look at the relationship between impairment and inactivity,

:18:53.:18:56.

it is not the race time, it is not the performance in the final result,

:18:57.:19:01.

it is the key components of the discipline, of the sport the athlete

:19:02.:19:06.

is participating in. And if classifiers who are certified and

:19:07.:19:11.

trained for their purpose have reviewed this is something that

:19:12.:19:15.

might fluctuate a little bit, they tell the athlete in review. So they

:19:16.:19:18.

observed the athlete on multiple occasions throughout their career.

:19:19.:19:25.

More broadly, what about the classification? The classification

:19:26.:19:29.

is done at a national level and I wonder if you are confident that it

:19:30.:19:33.

is equable across all nations? Because what you are asking is a big

:19:34.:19:38.

ask of classifiers to have exactly the same rules. Exactly the same

:19:39.:19:47.

interpretations of the rules. There is a certain degree of diversity

:19:48.:19:52.

within the nations and it depends on how the nations themselves train

:19:53.:19:56.

their classifiers. We are working now with the international

:19:57.:19:58.

federations to ensure that they assist the nations to have a

:19:59.:20:02.

transparent and standardised approach to classification across

:20:03.:20:07.

all nations. When an athlete starts competing internationally, the

:20:08.:20:13.

mandate of classification is transferred to international

:20:14.:20:16.

classifiers, all trained and certified by the International

:20:17.:20:19.

Federation responsible. Do you think at the moment there is a problem

:20:20.:20:23.

with the kind of national level of classification? You seem to be

:20:24.:20:26.

suggesting there are different approaches and that could perhaps be

:20:27.:20:32.

improved. That is correct. And that is why we engage now at this very

:20:33.:20:37.

moment with the national bodies. We have significant investments over

:20:38.:20:43.

time with national classification expert capacity built up and we are

:20:44.:20:47.

very happy to engage with all of these twin sure that at the onset of

:20:48.:20:53.

an athlete's career, they can give guidance to the classification in

:20:54.:20:56.

the most appropriate way. Finally, we are going to see something

:20:57.:21:01.

incredible, sporting achievements, over the next 11 days. I wonder if

:21:02.:21:07.

we see somebody winning by an overwhelming, way ahead of the rest

:21:08.:21:11.

of the field, the margin is very great, should we be concerned

:21:12.:21:15.

something is not working correctly? I don't think so. We have all

:21:16.:21:23.

measures put in place to ensure that those athletes competing here in Rio

:21:24.:21:27.

have been seen, have been properly classified in the final lead up to

:21:28.:21:31.

these games. I think what we will see is unique athletic performance,

:21:32.:21:36.

which is just on the basis of skill, training and very hard work by those

:21:37.:21:40.

athletes. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.

:21:41.:21:42.

While the Government and the civil servants are grappling

:21:43.:21:44.

with the construction of a bespoke Brexit, institutions are having

:21:45.:21:47.

to divine what it will mean for them and how to deal with uncertainty.

:21:48.:21:51.

Chief among them, the universities and colleges who have

:21:52.:21:53.

to plan their intake of undergraduates from the EU.

:21:54.:21:56.

Our policy editor, Chris Cook, is here with news of

:21:57.:21:59.

a deal for universities and what the Prime Minister

:22:00.:22:01.

is planning to do about selective schools, known to you and me

:22:02.:22:04.

Let's start first with universities, what is happening. Doping The big

:22:05.:22:11.

thing to remember about universities is they work on three or four year

:22:12.:22:18.

cycles. Secondly, EU students are treated like British students, they

:22:19.:22:21.

pay the same fees and they get the same access to loans. At the moment,

:22:22.:22:26.

today, right now, as of this morning, it has been possible to

:22:27.:22:31.

apply for it degree at a British university for next year, 2017.

:22:32.:22:35.

Universities are really worried students from the EU, about 5% of

:22:36.:22:39.

their student body, will not apply because they do not know the fee

:22:40.:22:43.

regime potentially in Twenty20 and they are not certain they will have

:22:44.:22:47.

access to the student loan scheme. So they may run out of money. They

:22:48.:22:52.

are appealing tomorrow, Dame Julia Goodfellow, the vice Chancellor of

:22:53.:22:56.

Ghent University and President of universities UK, she is giving a

:22:57.:23:01.

speech calling on the government to guarantee people with crude for next

:23:02.:23:05.

year will have the full rights as EU citizens to finish their degrees

:23:06.:23:11.

Tashkent University. Or there is too much uncertainty? Yes, and they are

:23:12.:23:16.

worried they will lose students. Universities are great lobbyists in

:23:17.:23:20.

Whitehall, this is a scream of desperation. And there was news

:23:21.:23:24.

today from an unexpected source under somebody's about selective

:23:25.:23:29.

schools. The Prime Minister, we have strong suspicions, wants to bring

:23:30.:23:34.

back grammar schools to England and that is very difficult because

:23:35.:23:37.

bringing back grammar schools requires you to change the 1998

:23:38.:23:41.

education act. It is hard-wired into statute and very difficult to do.

:23:42.:23:46.

You can see on the screens behind us, there is a senior civil servant,

:23:47.:23:52.

Jonathan Slater, the permanent secretary at the Department for

:23:53.:23:55.

education, he walked into Downing Street brazenly holding a piece of

:23:56.:23:59.

paper revealing a number of things. It does confirm the government does

:24:00.:24:03.

want to bring back grammar schools and Justine Greening, the Education

:24:04.:24:08.

Secretary, says these ideas should be presented as an option and should

:24:09.:24:12.

only be pursued once it is clear we can work with existing grammar

:24:13.:24:15.

schools to deal with the problems associated with grammar schools.

:24:16.:24:19.

Namely, the poor kids do worse and rich kids do better. Where does this

:24:20.:24:24.

leave us? Jonathan Slater's proposal is, why not have a scheme whereby we

:24:25.:24:30.

introduced the House of Lords a proposal to amend the 1998 education

:24:31.:24:34.

act only after we have got the grammar schools to work out some

:24:35.:24:39.

sort of deal whereby they show they can improve the way they perform so

:24:40.:24:42.

they do not harm social mobility as much. That is what it -- week in the

:24:43.:24:48.

trade call kicking the tray down the road. Thank you very much indeed.

:24:49.:24:50.

The Parliamentary Labour Party has, as expected, voted to request

:24:51.:24:53.

the NEC bring forward a rule change at conference to reinstate elections

:24:54.:24:56.

to the Shadow Cabinet, a move interpreted by Jeremy Corbyn's

:24:57.:24:58.

supporters as designed to rein him in should he win

:24:59.:25:01.

He has countered by suggesting that party members, or party conference,

:25:02.:25:05.

should elect some members of the Shadow Cabinet team.

:25:06.:25:08.

In a moment, I'll be speaking to the man who was at the centre

:25:09.:25:14.

of the battle for the survival of the Labour Party in the '80s,

:25:15.:25:17.

But first, our political editor, Nick Watt, observed a musical day

:25:18.:25:21.

Labour may be in the throes of a battle for its soul, but when it

:25:22.:25:35.

comes to music, the party's reading figures appear to be united in their

:25:36.:25:43.

taste for retro- chic. Today, Jeremy Corbyn was endorsed by an iconic

:25:44.:25:46.

band which was the scourge of Thatcherite. Your band, formed in

:25:47.:25:53.

the late 1970s, during a time of increasing youth unemployment, then

:25:54.:25:59.

went on to become this iconic name, UB40. But critics couldn't resist

:26:00.:26:06.

saying winning the endorsement of a bunch of ageing rockers may show how

:26:07.:26:11.

Jeremy Corbyn's worldview has not changed in three decades. A view

:26:12.:26:16.

vehemently rejected by UB40. In the end, what we have proved is we were

:26:17.:26:20.

right to be complaining about what they were doing during the Thatcher

:26:21.:26:24.

period. They were deregulating the banks, they were selling off houses

:26:25.:26:28.

and now those are the problems we are dealing with. We were right what

:26:29.:26:33.

we said then and we are right now, it is obvious. And the band members

:26:34.:26:37.

are not amused by any suggestion that a split among the original

:26:38.:26:42.

members of UB40 could provide something of an awkward metaphor for

:26:43.:26:46.

the future of Labour under a renewed Corbyn leadership. What a great

:26:47.:26:54.

question! I don't think one has anything to do with the other, do

:26:55.:27:00.

you? It wasn't really a split, so much as our lead singer left eight

:27:01.:27:05.

years ago. We still UB40. The party could live on with different people.

:27:06.:27:11.

Exactly. That is a novel idea. At the event, there was an unusual

:27:12.:27:14.

sighting, a politician with a genuine interest in the Arts who

:27:15.:27:18.

loves music when it has a political theme and when it moves him. We

:27:19.:27:24.

associate music with times in your life. I got to love Caribbean music

:27:25.:27:30.

in the 1960s when I worked in Jamaica RAF Marham years and that

:27:31.:27:34.

taught me a thing about original reggae bands -- for eight years. One

:27:35.:27:41.

is attracted to the music of some who have done great political

:27:42.:27:47.

things, like Joan buyers with that incredible voice she has got. But

:27:48.:27:53.

Corbyn's interest in music does have its limits. You secretly jealous of

:27:54.:27:58.

Ed Balls and would you like to be in that bowtie and Strictly Come

:27:59.:28:03.

Dancing? Within the confines and seclusion and privacy of this room,

:28:04.:28:09.

can I let you and perhaps you will tell the others, I have absolutely

:28:10.:28:14.

no desire whatsoever to go on Strictly Come Dancing! I wish Ed

:28:15.:28:18.

Balls well. Our strictly star is out in London tonight celebrating the

:28:19.:28:23.

publication of his memoirs in the presence of his new dance partner

:28:24.:28:28.

and some once mighty figures in the Labour Party. They cut a small

:28:29.:28:33.

figure these days, but one of their number, a retired musician, could

:28:34.:28:36.

not help and barking on something of a battle of the bands. I don't think

:28:37.:28:41.

there is a particular advantage in linking yourself to a particular

:28:42.:28:48.

musical form. Let alone one that is about from 30 or 40 years ago. I

:28:49.:28:55.

think Jeremy is dating himself a bit iffy is looking for UB40. UB40, Read

:28:56.:29:03.

Read Wine is all I remember. And many of his critics would be saying

:29:04.:29:08.

that they are hearing whining from Jeremy! I don't believe you. And in

:29:09.:29:16.

a sign of how bitter this battle has become, Alan Johnson even suggested

:29:17.:29:22.

that Jeremy Corbyn would have been on the wrong side of one of the

:29:23.:29:25.

greatest musical debates of the modern era. Jeremy and I think a lot

:29:26.:29:31.

of his supporters were the people he wanted Bob Dylann to stay with

:29:32.:29:35.

blowing in the wind. And his harmonica he had around his neck.

:29:36.:29:39.

And they booed and they jeered him when he brought out the electric

:29:40.:29:45.

guitar. I was postal electric rather than the pre-electric. -- postal

:29:46.:29:54.

electric. Our aged politicians know music has moved on since the 1980s.

:29:55.:30:00.

Rudimentary has endorsed Jeremy Corbyn, perhaps giving him the edge

:30:01.:30:04.

as Labour's tribes call to a new generation.

:30:05.:30:09.

Well, with me is Lord Whitty, Larry Whitty, who was General

:30:10.:30:12.

Secretary of the Labour Party for nine years during the last

:30:13.:30:14.

Good evening. I wonder what you make of this current war? Well, we've

:30:15.:30:26.

just seen a gentle film. I'm afraid the current war is pretty vicious.

:30:27.:30:32.

The two sides seem incapable of reaching any compromise. I think

:30:33.:30:35.

this slugging each other off has got to stop. I think once this contest

:30:36.:30:41.

is over, we need to have a real review of where the Labour Party is

:30:42.:30:46.

going and we need to do that very rapidly otherwise we are in very

:30:47.:30:50.

serious difficulty. Who do you hold responsible for the state of the

:30:51.:30:55.

party? Almost everybody. I think... I didn't vote for Jeremy.

:30:56.:30:57.

I thought Jeremy should have been given more time. I wasn't in favour

:30:58.:31:01.

of that hand fisted rolling coup we had in July. I also feel that some

:31:02.:31:06.

of these problems are fairly long-term. We've had two basic

:31:07.:31:14.

tendencies in the last few years. The leader's office has gained a

:31:15.:31:20.

leader and the leader's office have gained power which started under

:31:21.:31:24.

Tony Blair and has continued with Ed Miliband. Talking about Ed Miliband.

:31:25.:31:30.

When Ed Miliband got rid of the elections to the Shadow Cabinet you

:31:31.:31:34.

were against that and refused to take part? That wasn't the reason I

:31:35.:31:40.

refused to take part, I refused to take part with his affiliation - Why

:31:41.:31:45.

did you refuse to take part, I'm interested? The proposal he had on

:31:46.:31:49.

the table on how we treat member affiliation and who is the electoral

:31:50.:31:55.

college I didn't agree with. I still don't agree with it. In part, any

:31:56.:32:02.

country, any party, has to have checks and balances. There are

:32:03.:32:04.

different centres of power. Any large party is a coalition. We have

:32:05.:32:08.

to recognise that. We are getting to a situation where is polarised. If

:32:09.:32:14.

we get into a position where there are no checks and balances will one

:32:15.:32:20.

side go. There will have to be a victor that will mean there will be

:32:21.:32:23.

a split? I don't think we will get to that this. There is hope, at the

:32:24.:32:26.

end of this contest, whoever wins the party will come to its senses.

:32:27.:32:32.

Maybe some of the great movers and and shakers will intervene. It may

:32:33.:32:39.

be them again, it might not. Last time round, the trade unions were on

:32:40.:32:44.

the side of getting militant out. This time it's not that simple. It's

:32:45.:32:53.

not that simple. Militant were ill filtrated to the party. We had a

:32:54.:32:58.

split to the right with the SDLP going. We are in a similar situation

:32:59.:33:01.

in terms of the way people are treating each other. I think this is

:33:02.:33:05.

has been am playified because of the existence of social media. We need

:33:06.:33:11.

to calm down and we need to look at - Is the social media issue can be

:33:12.:33:15.

laid at Jeremy Corbyn's feet? I don't think it can be entirely led

:33:16.:33:20.

at one side or the other. There are pretty vicious comments going in

:33:21.:33:23.

both directions. In general it's been more associated with the

:33:24.:33:28.

momentum side than with - individuals... You said the Labour

:33:29.:33:31.

Party has to be for the white working-class. It has to be for the

:33:32.:33:35.

liberal provesals and ethnic minorities. If it's not for that, do

:33:36.:33:38.

you think Jeremy Corbyn can win an election? Could you think that

:33:39.:33:41.

Jeremy Corbyn could be Prime Minister? I think Jeremy Corbyn

:33:42.:33:43.

could become the Prime Minister if the party can pull it together. We

:33:44.:33:47.

are not at present on course for that. Whether Owen or Jeremy wins in

:33:48.:33:52.

a few weeks' time we have to get back on course. My message today is

:33:53.:33:57.

really - the people who matter in the party, the members, if MPs have

:33:58.:34:00.

to put this contest behind them and move forward. Thank you very much

:34:01.:34:01.

indeed, Lord Whitty. The American comedian,

:34:02.:34:13.

Amy Schumer, is on tour. All over the US, a few dates

:34:14.:34:15.

in Europe, two in the UK Her screwball no-holds-barred US TV

:34:16.:34:18.

sketch show, Inside Amy Schumer, has run for four seasons

:34:19.:34:22.

and picked up two Emmys and an army of fans,

:34:23.:34:24.

but she won a new audience last year with her self-penned movie,

:34:25.:34:27.

Trainwreck, which was funny Now, she's written her first book,

:34:28.:34:29.

a memoir and series of essays, The Girl with the Lower Back Tattoo,

:34:30.:34:33.

which coincides with her big tour. Emily met her for a

:34:34.:34:36.

woman-to-woman talk. Amy, it's OK, she grew up

:34:37.:34:41.

during a different time. Tell him to start mowing the lawn

:34:42.:34:58.

by the pool so it'll The bit in your book which really

:34:59.:35:01.

struck a chord with me - and I haven't heard anyone

:35:02.:35:06.

describe it, I don't think - was the introversion,

:35:07.:35:10.

that women constantly feel it's up to them to fill the gaps and smooth

:35:11.:35:17.

over the social awkwardness and just And I'm wondering about the moment

:35:18.:35:20.

when you suddenly kind of went - oh, don't have to,

:35:21.:35:26.

don't have to do that? Probably sooner than I

:35:27.:35:29.

should have. Yeah, it was going to a wedding

:35:30.:35:30.

with my boyfriend at the time and I just was in, like,

:35:31.:35:36.

my mid-20s and just was like, I really hate

:35:37.:35:39.

this and I can't do it. Like, I can't be this social

:35:40.:35:47.

with this many people for this long. And then getting to a place

:35:48.:35:50.

where I didn't think something was wrong with me and that I thought

:35:51.:35:53.

it was OK and that I actually liked, I really liked that I know that

:35:54.:35:57.

I needed time on my own to recharge. And do you say no

:35:58.:36:08.

to more weddings now? I mean, they're just

:36:09.:36:10.

events where you think, I cannot stand that,

:36:11.:36:12.

I can't be there? I can't do a weekend,

:36:13.:36:14.

a full weekend wedding. And my friends are still getting

:36:15.:36:19.

married. Like, why are people

:36:20.:36:21.

still doing this? You know, it's not just

:36:22.:36:25.

affairs that are that big. It can be just the smalltalk

:36:26.:36:28.

with someone in an elevator. Do you ever just say,

:36:29.:36:33.

I'm just going to be Or I'll say, you know,

:36:34.:36:35.

I really just can't talk Where is that, is it locking

:36:36.:36:43.

yourself in a loo, or is it...? I've, like, sat in a Starbucks

:36:44.:36:50.

bathroom and just sat on the floor Nobody was waiting,

:36:51.:36:57.

so it wasn't rude. The girl who played me

:36:58.:37:01.

as a little girl in Trainwreck, she's nine years old,

:37:02.:37:03.

her name's Devon, and she came up to me at the premiere and she said,

:37:04.:37:08.

"I overheard my agent tell my mom that my cheeks are too big,

:37:09.:37:12.

so I don't get a lot of work. But then I thought, well,

:37:13.:37:15.

my cheeks made me look like you and I'm so grateful

:37:16.:37:17.

I have these cheeks." And so I just kind of leaned down

:37:18.:37:21.

and I just said, you know, well, "What does

:37:22.:37:26.

that mean, Devon?!" You probably go to, you know,

:37:27.:37:28.

hundreds of awards ceremonies But whenever I do and I'm

:37:29.:37:35.

kind of stuck there... And you see these speeches and I'm

:37:36.:37:39.

always struck by the fact that women accept awards and the first thing

:37:40.:37:46.

they do, quite often, is apologise. They apologise for not being funny,

:37:47.:37:49.

they apologise for not They apologise for,

:37:50.:37:51.

you know, this isn't I wonder what you make of that,

:37:52.:37:54.

how did we get to that place? It's, I think, because so many

:37:55.:38:01.

people hate women. I'd be on set and I'd want to give

:38:02.:38:04.

a suggestion to Judd Apatow You talked yourself out

:38:05.:38:16.

of it. I say sorry a lot less

:38:17.:38:28.

than I probably should. If you said the name

:38:29.:38:34.

Hillary Clinton in America, There will be those who love her,

:38:35.:38:36.

there will be those Well, that's what I'm saying

:38:37.:38:40.

with the not being informed. Because those people aren't

:38:41.:38:44.

informed. If you go, why don't

:38:45.:38:45.

you like Hillary? They'll go, she lied

:38:46.:38:48.

about her e-mails, what else People get one fact

:38:49.:38:50.

and that's what they latch I'm like, well, Donald Trump

:38:51.:38:54.

has a fake college. Donald Trump doesn't

:38:55.:39:02.

pay his workers. There's never been a nominee who's

:39:03.:39:04.

ever not released their taxes. I haven't had a conversation

:39:05.:39:13.

with anyone who doesn't like Hillary where they've had

:39:14.:39:20.

anything meaningful to say. If it isn't Hillary in November,

:39:21.:39:24.

does your act change, My act will change because I'll

:39:25.:39:27.

need to learn to speak Spanish, because I'll move

:39:28.:39:32.

to Spain, or somewhere. It's beyond my comprehension

:39:33.:39:34.

if Trump won. The sort of Hollywood

:39:35.:39:40.

portrayals of sex are very squeaky clean and romantic,

:39:41.:40:19.

and the Amy Schumer portrayal of sex is that half

:40:20.:40:22.

the time, it's quite crap. You know, you can be

:40:23.:40:25.

quite lazy, nothing Yeah, I mean, I don't know the kind

:40:26.:40:28.

of sex that you're having, but I'm showing the kind of sex that

:40:29.:40:34.

I mostly have. If it's not, like, sex

:40:35.:40:37.

within a relationship and you're sleeping with someone new,

:40:38.:40:44.

most likely, it doesn't go well and something

:40:45.:40:46.

weird or hurtful happens. And, yeah, there are just

:40:47.:40:49.

these moments where you question yourself and -

:40:50.:40:52.

what are you willing You say this is not

:40:53.:40:54.

a self-help book, but it's You show women how

:40:55.:41:03.

to masturbate. I had to figure it out

:41:04.:41:06.

on my own when I was, like, older. Like, guys are jerking off

:41:07.:41:15.

when they're like, I think, you know, maybe it speeds

:41:16.:41:22.

them up a couple of years. I remember when I was 18 or 19,

:41:23.:41:33.

this guy came to visit me. I'd met this guy in Montana

:41:34.:41:36.

and he was, like, really cute and whimsy and a hiker and he came

:41:37.:41:41.

and visited me in New York. And in that environment,

:41:42.:41:44.

he was very gross. I was, like, 19 and -

:41:45.:41:48.

oh, he flew all the way here, I'll just drink enough that my body

:41:49.:41:55.

will, like, that I'll Because I felt like I owed him

:41:56.:41:57.

something. And I think as a young woman,

:41:58.:42:02.

you might get confused about that. So what I'm saying is,

:42:03.:42:08.

like, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do and don't feel

:42:09.:42:12.

you owe someone something.

:42:13.:42:18.

Exclusive: MPs call for a pause in arms sales to Saudi Arabia. Plus a new row over the Paralympics, EU students after Brexit, Labour's leadership fight and Amy Schumer. With Kirsty Wark.


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