04/10/2016 Newsnight


Evan Davis meets the prime minister, and there is a discussion of the war with ISIS for Mosul and an interview with Britain's newest Nobel Prize winner.

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Ladies and gentleman, it is your new Prime Minister.


And piece by piece this week, we are slowly getting to know her.


I've got a task to do, as Prime Minister.


To reinstate some trust for the British people with


Well, there's a bigger issue of trust we have at the


moment, which is us delivering on the Brexit vote.


She's firmly resisting giving much away about herself and her plans.


But we've been trying to break through the defences, speaking


She was contemplating standing for the


There is no criticism of her to say she had that ambition.


And I think she has thought hard and long.


Also, if I might say so, she's worked hard.


Also tonight, the nearby oilfields torched


by Islamic State still burn, as the two million residents


of Mosul are told to prepare for the massive US-led offensive


And the three British Nobel prize winners for physics who were part


We hear from one of the recipients, Duncan Haldane.


As well as Sir Martin Rees, the Astronomer Royal.


Hello, welcome back to the Tory conference, here in Birmingham,


where there is really only one big star right now, Theresa May.


There are lots of small stars, softly glowing on the sidelines.


That's the cabinet, but the new Prime Minister


And we will be focussing on what we know of her style


But before we do, we have news of another party


leader this evening, Diane James, very recently elected


Our political editor Nick Watt is with me.


Extraordinary. 18 days since she was elected. What do we know about the


circumstances? In the last hour Diane James has issued a statement


saying she is standing down for personal and professional reasons.


In this statement she issued to the Times newspaper she has cited, for


example, she was very shaken when she was back at on a train on her


way to Cardiff in recent days. That shook her. There are also evidently


medical problems within immediate member of her family. Interesting


comment that state when she is talking about that she won the


enthusiastic support of party members 18 days ago but then she


goes on to say "It has become clear I do not have sufficient authority


nor the full support of my MEP colleagues and party offices to him,


changes". That is upon which I based my


campaign. Interesting, on the official papers you have to sign,


confirming you are leader, she added the word, in Latin, under direction.


She has never been officially made a leader. But there is no debate about


the fact that Ukip has had a horrendous success in the referendum


but then complete enclosure. Arguably, Ukip is this country's


most successful party ever, they were set up to do one thing and it


has been achieved. Take us out of the European union. To mulch was


leader contest. Diane James, or those you MEPs in Strasbourg, she


had dinner with Nigel Farage and he has told LBC this evening that he


does not rule out a return to the leadership. He has done that before.


Maybe Steven Woolfe, another one of those high-flying MEPs. He failed to


submit his nomination papers on time. He has a second chance if it


comes to that. Thank you, we will hear from you in the programme.


Now here, Theresa May is very much on top here.


But for one who is so much the centre of attention,


she exhibits a certain reluctance to open up.


That's not a criticism, it's an observation.


Tomorrow is her day, when she makes the most


important speech of her year, addressing the conference


But today was her day, too, with a number of interviews.


All of us trying to get some kind of clue as to her intentions.


At this point that reticence works to her advantage, because everybody


But can she really hope to sustain the acclaim?


Our political editor Nick Watt has been looking at what's known


Rarely in our recent history has a political


leader risen so far, while revealing so


In the autumn sunshine of Birmingham, this week,


our new Prime Minister, who has been on the front line


of British politics for the best part of two decades...


I was the first to promote for a woman Chairman and she became


the first woman Chairman of the Conservative Party.


I know that in Theresa there is real steel.


Theresa May is enjoying something of a political honeymoon,


which is lasting longer than the brief excitement


The last Prime Minister to take over without an election.


Officials regard her as "No Drama Theresa"


and are struck by how she's taken the preparations for today's


Friends say that the honeymoon is not down to luck,


You should remember, Nick, she was contemplating standing


And there's no criticism of her to say that she had that ambition.


And I think she has thought hard and long.


Also, if I can say, she's worked hard at her brief on whatever she's


been doing, Home Secretary or whatever.


And, so, she was well prepared for coming into office.


Theresa May has slipped naturally into her new role.


The atmosphere in Downing Street is said to be orderly and calm,


And her days as party chairman have paid off,


as she looks at ease with grassroots Tories in Birmingham.


She's somebody that is at home with the Conservative Party,


she likes the Conservative Party, she came up through it.


And I would think, in just about every constituency, there


I think the fact is, and I'm sure that David Cameron


will probably accept this, there wasn't a great


He got them into a position to win elections.


And he ran a difficult coalition for five years.


I think, however, with Theresa there is an almost immediate sense


The Tories have long known that Theresa May is a pragmatist.


But this week, she's been selling herself to the conference


as a leader driven by political passions, as she talks


But if she wants to succeed, one former minister passed over


in the reshuffle suggests that she should do more to build up


Theresa has been a member of our party and really at


the core of our party, counsellor and Chairman,


going to association dinners for many, many years.


And really respected and liked, because of all of that,


David never had that advantage because she was so much younger.


But, actually DC did go out into the tea room and he was in


But she needs to do that. Those things are important.


Listen, if you can socialise with all our wonderful members,


Old colleagues say that even the happiest of honeymoons


And the inhabitants of Downing Street can


become consumed by the inevitable incoming fire.


The thing about being Prime Minister is that the bullets


In other departments, it's not so intense.


But, actually, the Department where it is most intense,


outside of Number Ten, is, undoubtedly, the Home Office.


If five people in the Conservative Parliamentary party are not onside


and the other parties get their act together,


then she won't be able to get her wishes through the House of Commons.


After a tumultuous few months for the Tories, Theresa May


aims to set the seal on a lasting relationship


The next challenge is to win round the country by finally


Nick is with me again to look ahead to tomorrow.


His whole programme, today. What do we know about the speech tomorrow


this is Theresa May's big chance to explain to the country her guiding


philosophy and everyone had an idea of her big message, we need to look


at a little noticed section of her interview with the Sunday Times at


the weekend when she said that government can be good. She had to


look at a little noticed section of her interview with the Sunday Times


at the weekend when she said that government can be good. She had


talked a lot this week about how she use the levers of the state. We


should look at one of the key lines in the speech she made in this city


on July 11 when she launched her national leadership campaign, which


didn't last very long. She said "We don't hate the state, we value the


role that only the state can play". Do you see an ism here, a


philosophy, a guiding principle, intellectual underpinning? I


certainly see a rejection of one ism, if you are saying you don't


hate the state, you are rejecting Margaret Thatcher's famous statement


that there is no such thing as society. A mild rebuke to David


Cameron who famously responded to Margaret Thatcher by saying there is


such a thing as society, is just not the same as the state. He was wary


of the state. But if we want to know what is going on, the philosophy, we


should turn to a friend of this programme, Danny Finkelstein, he has


his finger on the Tory polls and he has an interesting column in


tomorrow's times. To understand what Theresa May is up to, he says we


need to think of two moment in 20th-century US history. Firstly,


look-back two decades to a famous editorial in the conservative


American magazine the weekly standard. Saying the Conservatives


should talk about the role of government and not its limits. The


editorial turned way back to the turn of the sentry at the Republican


president, Teddy Roosevelt, who embraced progressive ideas and


demanded a square deal for workers. Teddy Roosevelt. Nick, thanks.


Well, let's hear from the Prime Minister herself.


She gave a number of tightly-timed interviews to broadcasters this


afternoon, before we had any foreknowledge of her speech.


So would she give us any clues as to her approach to government?


We thought we might talk a little about moral


dimensions to public life, because you, in a way, wanted


to change quite a lot about Britain and make it a country


I just wondered whether there was, whether that meant there


was an ethical gap in your view of it, that you think


So, I wanted to explore that with you.


Well, I think it's very important that people don't feel


that economic growth, the benefits of what is happening


in society, are only being felt by a privileged few.


I think it is important that government ensures that we do


have a country that works for everyone, and that comes


It means an economy that works for everyone, where economic


benefits are spread more across the country.


A society that works for everyone, so individuals, I have always


believed that individuals need to have the opportunity to get


on in life as far as their talents and hard work will take them.


I want to explore it on a few specifics, so let's take


And David Cameron once said he begrudged the fact that some


companies put chocolate oranges by the checkout where


you are tempted to buy them, rather than real oranges.


So, if I'm a company and I can make money by selling chocolate,


even though it might be better for the customers if I sold fruit,


In looking at businesses, I'm very clear that we need


to deal with corporate irresponsibility, when we see that.


Which is why I have already spoken about some of the changes I am


looking at in terms of corporate governance and we will be bringing


forward some proposals later this year in that area.


I think people want to feel that everybody plays by the same


And feel that there isn't just one law for the privileged few


Does that mean sometimes companies should do more


When it comes to tax, for example, they say the obey the law,


Is that enough, if you are pushing the rules to the very limit, or not?


I think companies must recognise that actually they have


For any company, they don't just do things on their own,


they have a reliance on people in their community,


This is why I'm talking about issues like consumer representation


being on boards, worker representation being on boards.


I think it is looking at that wider community in terms of the impact


Let's take another area, which is party funding.


You will know lots of people have given money to political


parties and have ended up in the House of Lords.


A lot of people would say that's not a country working for all,


that's giving rich people more power over our country than other people.


Could you imagine giving peerages to Conservative Party donors?


First of all, the question about party funding is one,


of course, there have been several attempts to change


One of the reasons why the attempts to change the rules on party funding


and to bring in some limits to individual donations have


faltered is because the Labour Party is unwilling to see changes to trade


Which of course often has a direct impact on who they have affected


Which of course often has a direct impact on who they have elected


as their leader and what policies they choose to follow.


Yes, but I didn't hear the answer to the question.


Is it possible, because others have tried to get to grips


You are trying to get to grips with things that other people


haven't got to grips with, so is it possible that you would be


giving peerages to people who have made large donations to your party?


The answer to that is, Evan, that at the moment


with everything I'm looking at, the last thing I'm thinking


I've got a task to do as Prime Minister, it's to deliver,


to reinstate some trust for the British people


There is a bigger issue of trust that we have at the moment,


which is us delivering on the Brexit vote that took


But this means you could be giving peerages to people


who are giving donations, and that isn't the country working


for all, that is the most simple example that you,


Theresa May, could stop here and now in this interview,


by just saying, by the way, give money to the Tories, we are not


What I think is important in terms of the honours system,


and I said this the other day, is that it is an honour system that


rewards those who have made contributions to our society.


If you look at the vast majority of people who receive honours,


actually they are people who are working in their local


I think it's important we have a system that recognises


when people are contributing to our society in that way.


Let me try one last one, foreign policy.


Robin Cook famously talked about an ethical


Did you see foreign policy as needing a strong ethical dimension?


And I would cite an example, which is British


Select committee reports have said those are probably being used


We are selling the arms to Saudi Arabia, but atrocities


in Yemen being perpetrated, by British weapons.


Is that something Britain should be doing, or not?


First of all, we have one of the strongest regimes in terms


of exports of arms anywhere of any country in the world.


In this case, is it working in this case?


We have one of the strongest regimes in relation to arms exports of any


We have been very clear, I have been very clear


personally with Saudi Arabia that we expect these issues


And if necessary, lessons to be learned.


But what is important in foreign policy I think, first of all,


is that we consider what is in the British National interest.


We are going to be taking, continuing to take,


but enhancing our global role, our role on the world stage.


As we come out of the European Union.


That is about the partnerships we form around the whole of the world.


People listening to this would say, what I'm hearing from Theresa May


is not quite as different to what I might have expected


I would be hearing about a new regime, you ethical standards,


a determination if you like to sweep away some of the privileges


and institutions that have been dominating or existing,


Are you that determined to change things?


If you listen to my speech that I'm going to give to the party


conference tomorrow, I'm setting out the sort of economic


and social reform that I want to see for a country that


With us here is the Cabinet Minister James Brokenshire,


He's someone who served in the Home Office under Theresa May


and is seen as one of her closest allies in the Cabinet.


Interesting watching that, she really is not someone who gives, she


retreats quite often to save lines on issues rather than thinking


aloud. Is that because she does not know what her mind is all because


she is keen not to say too much at this point. From all my experience


in working with Theresa May over the last six or eight years, through her


time as Home Secretary, she has been very much a big picture issue person


as well as down into the detail. What you see from her is that


clarity of thought she understands and watches going to get across in


terms of the themes that matter to her. She is a serious politician and


thinks carefully about everything she says. She is very much into that


level of detail, I think she wants to think things through instead of


giving an off-the-cuff answer. She does not want to black stuff out.


Isis bows it is reminiscent of Gordon Brown, not just quite


answering the question when it is given. I cannot see that comparison!


It is the very focused and detailed approach that the Prime Minister


gives. That is the skill we need at the moment when we are looking at


Brexit, at this detailed negotiation we have coming up. I think it is


that approach that she brings. Disciplined message. Let us talk


about Brexit and Northern Ireland, your patch, the issue of the border


between North and South is a very sticky one. Is it possible that


Britain will leave the single market and not be in the so-called customs


union that is the EU at the moment, which effectively is the kind of


trading zone with a wall around it that has tariffs on certain items


coming from abroad. We have come to no conclusions. There has been no


analysis that concludes on this. So we're not going to give a running


commentary. It is possible because you have not come to a conclusion on


it. The bit I want to investigate, if the South of Ireland is on one


side, in one customs union and the North in a different one, there has


got to be a customs post of some kind between the two. Well we have


come to no conclusions, we are seeking to achieve the best outcome


of the negotiations for Northern Ireland... You are just parroting


stuff, and to the question. We will be coming to that as part of the


analysis, as part of that point. But there is a strong desire to see that


we do not return to the borders of the past, something that I have been


clear on. How we have the Common travel area that has served us since


about 1923 between the Republic of Ireland and the UK. And that sense


also of the land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of


Ireland. And how that benefits goods and services and intends equally of


politics and identity. Everyone shares the objective but if for


example Britain is importing stuff from the United States and the EU


wants to charge tariffs on those items, the EU with said we need a


customs post otherwise people will import it into the North of Ireland,


exported into the South without paying the European tariffs, and


customs will not work. Have you worked out a way of the UK not being


in the customs union without having a customs post? As we have not


reached any conclusions I will not comment on the detail of what we are


preparing. But we're working closely with the Irish government who have


this shared objective because of the benefits for the Irish economy and


also the UK economy around this. Is it acceptable that there might be


not a border, but at customs post, and honesty box if you like, or


maybe not actually a physical honesty box but a system in which


you have to make a declaration within 30 days of exporting. Are


these acceptable ways of Britain leading the customs area? I


understand your desire to get more detail, we are not going to provide


that level of detail on this. But I can say clearly that we want to see


the freest trade of goods and services between the Republic of


Ireland and the United Kingdom, Northern Ireland. That benefit that


we see. The way technology has moved on, I spoke about the Common travel


area, and the way the digital use of information, all these issues we are


discussing clearly with the Irish government. Let's just move on,


Amber Rudd today hinted in her briefings that companies might be


asked to publish how many international staff they employ, the


proportion of staff better international as opposed to British.


Do you think that is something shameful about companies employing


foreign staff, that there should be embarrassed about it and should try


to get that number down? As a government we have set clearly we


want to attract the brightest and the best to come to the UK. To


contribute to our economic growth and prosperity. That is something I


was clear on when I was at the Home Office making those points. When we


look at transparency, those pressures that are there on the


public services, pressures about the speed and the rate of migration. It


is about bringing greater control and transparency. Naming and shaming


companies because they employ foreigners, is that what we have


come to, is that the country that is open to the world that we have been


talking about. There is an issue in relation to skills for example,


companies and UK have under invested in skills and training of workers


here in this country and therefore that sense of the work we need to do


to give skills to workers here and equally with apprenticeships, the


2.9 million were developed, all these issues together. And this is a


complex issue when you look at controlling migration. Then would


you not want to publish something on skills, or training budgets, or


apprenticeships. But to focus on the number of foreigners that you


employee, is that really the Britain you want to be living in? What I


want to do, what I want to see as the government is that we are


outward looking, we are attracting skilled workers to come to the


country to provide that strength and growth that we continue to want to


see. But I think it is important that we focus on skills and


training, on that balance of employment so we're seeing, as Amber


Rudd has highlighted today, we want to consult on EU migration policies,


to see how we can bring those controls because that is what


matters. That is the message that came from the referendum and that is


what Amber Rudd has been saying today.


Well, if the Conservative Party is a delicate ecology of different


political creatures, then there's one species


which is noticeable by its absence here in Birmingham: the so-called


Cameroons, friends and allies of the former Prime Minister.


There have been few sightings, so we sent our resident twitcher


Lewis Goodall to try to find some evidence of them.


The most endangered species at this conference are the Cameroons.


And we at Newsnight are worried about their welfare.


They used to be dominant here, some worry they are now extinct.


You haven't seen any Cameroons knocking around, have you, at all?


We're looking for some Cameroons, have you seen any?


You know, you're trying to find an endangered species.


You know, miss is a strong word, isn't it?


George Osborne, Michael Gove, they used to run this place.


Would you say you're sort of a Cameroon, Mr Gork?


Now we have another very good Prime Minister.


Mr Willetts, you are a Cameroon, aren't you?


I certainly served under David Cameron's government


Are you worried that that part of the party has disappeared,


No, I think that the modernisers and moderates in the party are alive


and well and kicking and well represented


Hello, it's Lewis Goodall from Newsnight.


I'm making a piece about what's happened to the Cameroons,


We are just slightly worried they might be extinct.


That's day three of the Conservative Party Conference.


Tomorrow is the last day and some would say that is fortunate,


because the pound has been sinking since the Tories got


here and we can't afford for them to keep the conference going.


But for now, back to you Kirsty in London.


The Radio of the Republic of Iraq in Mosul started broadcasting


to residents of the city today with advice about how to stay safe


during the expected US coordinated offensive to dislodge Islamic State.


Mosul is the last major city in Iraq under the control of IS,


and Prime minister Haider al-Abadi wants to recapture it before


President Erdogan of Turkey has already announced the date


on which he believes the huge operation will begin -


October 19th - unconfirmed of course.


What is definite is that the population of Mosul -


up to two million people, who have been brutally


repressed for two years, are facing weeks of extreme danger


when the imminent encirclement to oust their oppressors begins.


Here's our diplomatic editor Mark Urban.


It was in Mosul that Iraq's army crumbled,


And in Mosul that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi declared his caliphate.


Capturing the place gave the Islamic State


It's where the whole campaign against


It's where Isis became something, became known to


the international community, to the regional players.


It's important because the end of the so-called


caliphate, or the Mosul liberation, begin select phase of this whole


process, of this campaign, of this conflict.


Since the IS high watermark, when they were 20 miles


from Baghdad, the group has been forced out of Tikrit,


In Syria, Turkish troops and American backed militia have


cleared them from most of the Turkish border.


Movements between the jihadists' major strongholds, Raqqa


And it's bound to grow harder still as Iraqi forces


France has now joined in air strikes it says will begin the


The Americans have committed additional troops and


whereas at first neither the White House nor its allies wanted people


on the ground, there are now coalition troops joining the Iraqi


The coalition is providing headquarters support, that


means logistics, flying in to provide food, fuel,


ammunition, also providing intelligence and providing


a large number of air strikes and also artillery strikes fired from


Mosul is currently surrounded on three sides by Kurdish forces.


To the north-west, there are groups guided by US and British


To the south, though, at Qayyarah airbase, the Iraqi army


is assembling its armoured brigades, which will push north assisted by US


and French artillery on the ground, as well as air support.


Over the next two weeks, they will shape the battlefield with


these strikes and in a fortnight,


begin the ground advance to tighten their encirclement.


Opinions differ as to how well IS will fight.


Publicly, coalition commanders are expressing


cautious optimism about the offensive.


Privately though, many acknowledge that Islamic State


forces in Mosul could collapse very quickly.


If success happens in that way, it could bring a whole new set


of challenges in a place that has been contested between different


regional powers and their proxy militias for decades.


Secret footage taken in the city with a population


of nearly two million shows them awaiting in trepidation.


Having experienced the brutality of IS


rule, people in Mosul now fear a long battle and fresh sectarian


We as citizens think that the situation in Mosul


after it is liberated will get even worse.


The chances of it turning sour is very high, simply because Isis


Mosul is contested for strategic reasons, the Kurds have territories


there that they are disputing, the same applies to Baghdad.


Whatever happens after Mosul will decide the shape


When the Iraqi army abandoned Mosul in 2014, locals


It was a measure of how badly relations between Sunni


citizens and a largely Shia army had degenerated.


The Iraqi authorities today will need to tread carefully


in the city's reconquest is not to generate fresh strife.


"We have more Nobel Laureates than any country outside America,"


And that total has now gone up, after three British


scientists were awarded the Nobel Prize for Physics.


David Thouless, Duncan Haldane and Michael Kosterlitz


who are at three different American universities, collaborated


in the 1970s and 80s here in the UK on research into the behaviour


After the announcement, the Astronomer Royal Sir Martin Rees


noted that all three had "defected" to the US in the 80s when university


budgets were being squeezed, and that there was a serious risk


that there could be a renewed surge of defections -


spurred, he said, by the kind of rhetoric in the Home Secretary's


speech today, in which she announced plans for new restrictions


In a moment, I'll be speaking to Duncan Haldane live


from Princeton University but first, earlier this evening I spoke


I asked him what a great day this was for science in the UK.


It is, these three people were trained in Britain,


But sadly, they are in all cases working in the US now,


So, the Home Secretary today, Amber Rudd, at conference said that


what she was going to do was move to limit the number


of overseas students, but always be able to bring


In terms of the scientific world, what is your reaction to that?


I think let's recall that these three people went to the US


in the early 1980s, that was the Thatcher period,


And many people defected at that time.


I think that in the last 20 years, UK science has greatly strengthened


and that is partly, incidentally, because it has become more


international and far more involved with mainland Europe.


And it would be very sad if this was jeopardised, of course,


by limiting immigration and by the difficulty


I thought Amber Rudd's speech was really deplorable because that


would certainly lead to difficulties and the perception


is often worse than the reality, that is the problem.


People feel they are not welcome and they will not apply to come


We have really gained tremendously, if we think of other Nobel Prize


winners in recent years, they have come to this country.


The president of the Royal Society, Mr Ramakrishnan, is an Indian


And we had two Russians who came to Manchester, via Holland.


And they got a Nobel Prize, for discovering grapheme.


And we benefit from that sort of thing and it would be very sad


if the mentality changes so that these people


But surely, in a way, if there is even a limiting


because of the fact that we are leaving the EU, it


will encourage scientists to make, perhaps reach out and make


It perhaps will encourage more creative thinking about the kind


We benefit from the EU, but we certainly


In my small department at Cambridge University,


the last five appointments we made were three from the EU,


And that is typical of the University, we are very global.


And the point is it is very important to remain


Do you think we are doing the right things now to breed the next


generation of Nobel Prize winners in the United Kingdom, or not?


I think in the last ten or 20 years, the gradient was positive.


But the worry is that could all be lost by the perception


Because two things happened, first, outstanding foreigners won't be able


to come and work here, people who are working here


And of course young people will feel that science is not a career


where they can do the best work in this country,


So it's all very sensitive to the perception and whether


And the risk is we lose the rather high morale we have had


Lord Rees, thank you very much for joining us tonight.


Well, Professor Haldane joins us down the line


Good evening. Many congratulations. Thank you very much. We will come on


and talk in a minute or two about what Lord Rees was saying. How did


you find out you had won the Nobel prize? Well, I got the usual


telephone call, which here, in the United States, comes in at 10:15am


Swedish time but it was for 15 AM in the morning, US time. LAUGHTER


Not very considerate of them! -- for 15 AM. It was a welcome call even


though it work me up from my sleep. We saw earlier that you went to


lectures at delivered your lectures to great applause.


It was a late-night programme, very hard to summarise what you do in 30


seconds, but over those years when you three worked together, was there


one eureka moment when you realised you were something together? I think


we didn't really work together, I mean, I was inspired by ideas that


David Thouless had. In all our ways, we realised that while the laws of


quantum mechanics had been well-known for many years, Einstein


thought it was wrong and he proposed very interesting tests, which he


thought would refute quantum mechanics but all they did was


strengthen it. Knowing the laws of it doesn't tell you the amazing


things they can do. What all three of us have done in our different


ways is discovered very unexpected things that quantum mechanics does


allow to happen. You were then able to pursue your career. By going to


the United States. Now you heard Lord Rees say that he is concerned


that with the impact of Brexit, that the best students will not come here


and he won't be able to collaborate as easily with students for a double


from the EU. Do you recognise the picture he paints? -- with students


as easily. It is a very international enterprise, scientific


research. It is important that one can have the best students coming.


They are the fuel which drives enterprise, in many ways.


One of the key thing is perhaps lacking in the 1970s and 1980s in


British science funding was an idea that the government funding should


be useful. All the most used -- most useful discoveries come from what is


called curiosity -based research. That was something that was very


strongly favoured by the National science foundation in the United


States. They did a lot to create a very exciting atmosphere. In the UK,


a lot has changed. It has become realised again that the goods


discoveries don't come because you set out to make them, they come


because you are doing something you find interesting. Many times, one


will discover something that turned out to be useful and stimulating. Do


you agree with Lord Rees, that any way of reducing that through


particular mechanisms that we might lose because we are outside the EU


and therefore there will be fewer collaborations with different


parties presumably what you think, that scientific research has to


flourish all the time and it shouldn't be restricted? On the face


of it, not being in the EU doesn't mean that scientific research


shouldn't continue. I don't want to comment on the detail of immigration


issues being discussed. But it is very crucial that one is able to


attract the best and brightest students from wherever one can get


them for these advanced scientific research. If anything will hinder


that, that is a very bad thing for science. I don't want to comment on


whether these new rules being proposed will do that.


Congratulations once again, I hope your celebrations are long into the


night. Thank you. Emily's here tomorrow.


Till then, goodnight. Hurricane Matthew leaves a trail of


devastation through the


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis. Evan meets the prime minister, and there is a discussion of the war with ISIS for Mosul and an interview with Britain's newest Nobel Prize winner.

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