07/10/2016 Newsnight


07/10/2016

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 07/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

The leaked email scandals that rocked Clinton's

:00:09.:00:12.

Now the US government blames Russia for cyber hacking.

:00:13.:00:16.

Was Moscow trying to influence the outcome

:00:17.:00:19.

Sterling slumps to its lowest in 30 years.

:00:20.:00:26.

Is our national currency any more than a symbol of pride?

:00:27.:00:29.

Or is this telling us something about Brexit we need to know?

:00:30.:00:34.

All becomes clear in the Ukip saga as Mike Hookem explains the two men

:00:35.:00:38.

were just "wrestling like a pair of tarts".

:00:39.:00:40.

If you get offered out in Hull and you don't go,

:00:41.:00:49.

you're a bit of a wimp, so I'm going out with him.

:00:50.:00:52.

I'm 63, I should have made a different decision.

:00:53.:00:54.

I shouldn't have made decision that decision.

:00:55.:00:56.

It was silly, but he offered me out so I was going.

:00:57.:01:05.

Meet the liberal American writer who says the Democrats have

:01:06.:01:08.

Is this why Hillary Clinton is finding the race so hard?

:01:09.:01:19.

Late this evening the Obama administration came forward

:01:20.:01:23.

to formally blame Russia for a series of cyber attacks

:01:24.:01:26.

that it believes were intended to influence

:01:27.:01:27.

The US Homeland Security Department has said it is confident the Russian

:01:28.:01:40.

government directed the recent compromise of emails from US

:01:41.:01:42.

institutions and persons - including the

:01:43.:01:43.

Democratic National Committee - which was hacked

:01:44.:01:45.

just before Hillary Clinton's Convention back in July.

:01:46.:01:47.

And how do they know for sure it is Russia?

:01:48.:01:50.

Our technology correspondent David Grossman is with me now

:01:51.:01:53.

David, what do you make of this coming now?

:01:54.:02:02.

Until now, Americans had blamed the Russians but they had done so off

:02:03.:02:12.

the record but tonight they have gone on the record with that

:02:13.:02:18.

accusation. Let me just read you a little. The US intelligence

:02:19.:02:24.

community is confident that Russia directed these e-mails. It goes on

:02:25.:02:31.

these are intended to interfere with the election process. It goes on, we

:02:32.:02:36.

believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, only

:02:37.:02:41.

Russia's senior most officials could have authorised these activities.

:02:42.:02:47.

What do they mean by influence the election? In what way? This

:02:48.:02:52.

disclosure, 20,000 e-mails and 8000 attachments from the Democratic

:02:53.:02:59.

National Convention's computers were intended to destabilise the DNC

:03:00.:03:01.

convention where they'd nominated Hillary Clinton. It shows that DNC

:03:02.:03:09.

organisation was biased against Bernie Sanders and had colluded with

:03:10.:03:14.

Hillary Clinton. It was timed exquisitely to embarrass Hillary

:03:15.:03:17.

Clinton and her team and it nearly threw it all off the rails. Thank

:03:18.:03:19.

you. Joining me now is Thomas Rid,

:03:20.:03:22.

Professor in War Studies and one of the first to find

:03:23.:03:25.

the Russian Fingerprints And Kurt Volker, former US permanent

:03:26.:03:27.

Representatvie to Nato. Many thanks, gentlemen, for joining

:03:28.:03:38.

us. Kurt, why do you think this has come out now? I think that is

:03:39.:03:44.

exactly the right question. No one had any real doubt that this was the

:03:45.:03:47.

Russian government behind it, and I think as we get closer to the

:03:48.:03:51.

election itself, I think the administration wants to come out to

:03:52.:03:56.

show that Russia is playing a direct role. In some ways that is going to

:03:57.:04:01.

call into question Donald Trump's embrace of Russia during the course

:04:02.:04:05.

of the election campaign, and I also think whereas in the past the

:04:06.:04:09.

Administration may have held back from public charges against Russia,

:04:10.:04:14.

after Russia's assault on Aleppo, I think any motivation to hold back on

:04:15.:04:20.

criticising Russia has gone away. Cilic trump supporters suspected

:04:21.:04:22.

this was timed to help Hillary Clinton right now, they would not be

:04:23.:04:28.

wrong? It is one theory and I think the first thing you have to say is

:04:29.:04:31.

what difference does it make, because it is true, and the

:04:32.:04:36.

administration is putting out what is a true story and they have

:04:37.:04:40.

evidence behind it. But it gets to the issue of timing and I think

:04:41.:04:43.

there may be something with the politics of timing. You were one of

:04:44.:04:50.

the first, Thomas to compare the fingerprints and put the blame on

:04:51.:04:55.

Russia. Talk us through that? Russian intelligence agency have not

:04:56.:05:02.

just breached the DNC but several organisations and individuals. They

:05:03.:05:05.

claim that through a leaked account and what they have done is they

:05:06.:05:10.

hacked democratic organisations which happens all the time,

:05:11.:05:13.

basically, but they have done something fresh this time, something

:05:14.:05:18.

new. They also gave this information to the public in order to influence

:05:19.:05:22.

the election. This was a first. They have done this very aggressively

:05:23.:05:27.

again and again, almost on a weekly basis. We have seen 30 separate

:05:28.:05:32.

leaks since. And when we hear it is from the top echelons of the Russian

:05:33.:05:36.

government, our people deliberately not saying Putin that implying Putin

:05:37.:05:42.

or is there a different strand there? When the leak started on the

:05:43.:05:49.

15th of June, initially it looked like a bottom-up operation, some

:05:50.:05:54.

rogue person perhaps in Russia's military agency taking the

:05:55.:05:57.

initiative. But very quickly looting was confronted and Lavrov was

:05:58.:06:05.

confronted by American counterparts and it became clear that it must

:06:06.:06:10.

have been authorised so it has been authorised by Putin. And Kurt, if I

:06:11.:06:17.

take you back to that convention in July, there was that odd

:06:18.:06:20.

intervention from Donald Trump where he appeared to be calling on Russia

:06:21.:06:25.

to hack Clinton's e-mails, he said afterwards it was a joke and it had

:06:26.:06:29.

been taken out of context, but how does that now playing to this

:06:30.:06:34.

narrative? None of this came from Trump? No, of course not. I think

:06:35.:06:39.

truly Donald Trump was making light of it and making the assumption that

:06:40.:06:44.

Russia had already stolen these e-mails and they could release them

:06:45.:06:47.

but he was making light of it. I think it plays in a more serious way

:06:48.:06:51.

in that Trump has shown a more positive disposition toward Putin

:06:52.:07:00.

and Russia, has dismissed -- diminished Russia invading Ukraine,

:07:01.:07:06.

so pointing out Russia is doing these things directly to try and

:07:07.:07:11.

influence the US election is in a way demonstrating that perspective

:07:12.:07:14.

that Trump has embraced on Russia. It is really not in sync with the

:07:15.:07:19.

Russia we are dealing with. Thomas, I know you want to come in on this.

:07:20.:07:23.

It is really important to understand that they are sending a message to

:07:24.:07:28.

the American public as much as two Russia, to journalists in the United

:07:29.:07:34.

States and Europe as well. They are saying to them, you cannot just use

:07:35.:07:38.

these leaks and treat them as facts, because we have seen these

:07:39.:07:42.

intelligence agencies, Russian, falsifying and modifying information

:07:43.:07:46.

in these leaks. Previously, until today, the door was wide open for

:07:47.:07:49.

the Russian operatives to influence the election and today it has become

:07:50.:07:53.

a lot more difficult because journalists cannot just report these

:07:54.:07:58.

as if they were factual. But as Kurt was saying, this also hints at a

:07:59.:08:03.

real breaking down of relations over Syria. The sense that any entente

:08:04.:08:07.

between the US and Russia are working together to try and solve

:08:08.:08:12.

Syria has now gone, is that right? Absolutely. You had John Kerry

:08:13.:08:18.

musing about Russia being investigated for war crimes now. It

:08:19.:08:21.

is the kind of language we have not heard before from the Obama

:08:22.:08:26.

administration. I think they have become completely despairing and

:08:27.:08:29.

frustrated and upset over the deliberate role that Russia is

:08:30.:08:34.

playing in levelling Aleppo and killing thousands upon thousands of

:08:35.:08:38.

people. I don't see that this will recover in the course of this

:08:39.:08:42.

Administration. It will be up to the next president to try and build

:08:43.:08:46.

something sustainable with Russia. We have not had a direct comment

:08:47.:08:49.

from Russia on this but what is your sense of how they will read this or

:08:50.:08:55.

respond to that? They have been denying this operation in the past.

:08:56.:08:58.

It is a consistent pattern that they say one thing and do another thing.

:08:59.:09:05.

The same applies to operations in Aleppo and Crimea in Ukraine. They

:09:06.:09:09.

will not say they have been caught. You looked at two burglarised

:09:10.:09:15.

buildings which had the same fingerprints. If that irrefutable

:09:16.:09:21.

now? The evidence is strong so let's make this very concrete. We know the

:09:22.:09:25.

same entity that breached the DNC has also breached the German

:09:26.:09:32.

parliament, in order to find dirt on German politicians, interesting

:09:33.:09:34.

information to leak and that happened last year. We have the

:09:35.:09:38.

malware samples, the fingerprint, the tool they left behind and we can

:09:39.:09:43.

link those. They are very strong indicators to each other. This is

:09:44.:09:49.

literally as good as a fingerprint in a burglary. Thank you.

:09:50.:09:52.

6% in two minutes, the crash of the pound last night

:09:53.:09:55.

Those who long favoured Brexit will tell you a weak pound

:09:56.:10:04.

Those who feared Brexit will tell you this has been long time coming -

:10:05.:10:08.

One thing is clear - the flash crash suggests politics

:10:09.:10:12.

and political words play a crucial part in the fluctuations

:10:13.:10:14.

Or, as HSBCs head of Foreign Exchange quipped today,

:10:15.:10:17.

"the pound is now the de facto opposition".

:10:18.:10:19.

So tonight we ask how we feel about what may be

:10:20.:10:22.

Is strong currency anything more than a symbol

:10:23.:10:25.

Adam Parsons takes us through the day's vertiginous drop.

:10:26.:10:29.

Brokers and jobbers crowded together to try and sort out what the drop

:10:30.:10:35.

1967 and there's panic on the streets of London.

:10:36.:10:41.

The pound had been devalued, a change so cataclysmic

:10:42.:10:45.

that the stock market had to be closed, to let the dust

:10:46.:10:48.

Half a century later and the value of sterling is,

:10:49.:10:55.

It's been falling steadily ever since the Brexit referendum,

:10:56.:10:59.

Because while monetary policy, with superlow interest rates...

:11:00.:11:06.

Global markets took this as the Prime Minister criticising

:11:07.:11:08.

And that dragged the value of the pound down to levels it

:11:09.:11:15.

Sterling broke through some important levels we hadn't seen

:11:16.:11:19.

since 1985 and it still underlines the fact that international

:11:20.:11:21.

investors seemingly over the course of the last four or five days have

:11:22.:11:25.

Primarily moving in one direction which has been to sell sterling.

:11:26.:11:31.

In the early hours of this morning came something new,

:11:32.:11:35.

a sudden dramatic collapse in the value of the pound,

:11:36.:11:37.

a so-called flash crash, apparently caused by a computer

:11:38.:11:42.

algorithm that read an article on the internet of the computer

:11:43.:11:46.

reading it, not a person, and instantly decided to sell a vast

:11:47.:11:49.

On the trading floor, this is what a flash crash looks

:11:50.:11:57.

This graph shows us the value of the pound against the dollar.

:11:58.:12:05.

You can see, at midnight, last night, it was worth $1.26 and a bit.

:12:06.:12:08.

And then, suddenly, this vertical line shows us the dramatic fall

:12:09.:12:11.

Four minutes later, worth just $1.18.

:12:12.:12:15.

It's lost 6.5% of its value in just a few moments.

:12:16.:12:17.

Well, there is a rebound, but not a full recovery.

:12:18.:12:20.

What this shows us is a picture of sterling under attack.

:12:21.:12:25.

Here's what's happened since the referendum.

:12:26.:12:30.

The value of the pound has dropped sharply but at the same time,

:12:31.:12:33.

Well, because most of the money earned by the FTSE's big companies

:12:34.:12:39.

So, profits are worth a lot more as the value

:12:40.:12:42.

So, could we be heading towards a time where the pound

:12:43.:12:47.

Well, I den think we've seen the trough in sterling, yet,

:12:48.:12:51.

so we still have some more pain to come, which of course means UK

:12:52.:12:55.

I wouldn't suspect that we would get those parity thresholds

:12:56.:12:59.

being reached but further depreciation against the US dollar,

:13:00.:13:03.

I wouldn't be surprised if we trade down to 118 or even as low as 115.

:13:04.:13:07.

And I think in the shorter term, if we are going to see some

:13:08.:13:11.

of the selling pressure dissipate then we probably need to see some

:13:12.:13:17.

of the politicians rolling back on some of this hard Brexit talk

:13:18.:13:20.

which is really destabilising markets.

:13:21.:13:22.

Over in the States, the Chancellor was in his familiar sanguine mood.

:13:23.:13:24.

But markets will go up and down, markets respond to noises off

:13:25.:13:27.

and as I said earlier this week, we are going to go through a period

:13:28.:13:31.

of volatility now, there will be lots of commentary

:13:32.:13:33.

going on and we can expect to see markets being more turbulent.

:13:34.:13:37.

But hold on, is a weak pound really so bad?

:13:38.:13:42.

Well, one leading economist has told Newsnight

:13:43.:13:44.

The effect of a fall in the pound will make

:13:45.:13:49.

imports more expensive, so, people in the UK are more likely

:13:50.:13:52.

People overseas are likely to find our goods cheaper

:13:53.:14:02.

and more attractive, so they are more likely

:14:03.:14:06.

Tonight's jackpot is an estimated ?139 million.

:14:07.:14:13.

And one final benefit of a weak pound, the Euro millions lottery

:14:14.:14:20.

is paid out in euros, win the jackpot and it will be worth

:14:21.:14:23.

?7 million more than this time last week.

:14:24.:14:27.

Bonne chance, as they say in the Eurozone.

:14:28.:14:37.

That's more than enough of a silver lining.

:14:38.:14:39.

Joining us now Alistair Heath, from the Telegraph, Vicky Pryce,

:14:40.:14:42.

Economist, and Rupert Harrison former Treasurer advisor

:14:43.:14:43.

and chief of staff to the Chancellor, from Washington.

:14:44.:14:48.

Is it all so bad when you see the pound coming down this quickly or do

:14:49.:14:58.

you look at the upside? For an open economy like the UK, the currency

:14:59.:15:02.

acts like a shock absorber, so when you get hit by a shock, the currency

:15:03.:15:07.

goes down and there is a silver lining. The export products might

:15:08.:15:15.

benefit by selling more. There is still the original shock. People

:15:16.:15:24.

around the world are waking up to the risks that Brexit poses to the

:15:25.:15:30.

economy. Fewer people will invest in the UK, it is expected. That is not

:15:31.:15:34.

a good thing. The fall in the pound can have a silver lining but the

:15:35.:15:38.

shock that caused it is something we should be concerned about. In a

:15:39.:15:42.

slightly old-fashioned way, do we get too hung up on the pound as if

:15:43.:15:47.

it is somehow reflecting our national pride or a sense of

:15:48.:15:51.

virility in a funny way? I agree, we shouldn't look at it that way at

:15:52.:15:55.

all. People do but they shouldn't. There is a certain pride about

:15:56.:15:58.

having a strong currency and in many ways it can be good because it means

:15:59.:16:02.

you are richer, you can buy many more things from abroad than

:16:03.:16:07.

otherwise would be the case. Having a weaker currency makes you pour

:16:08.:16:10.

almost immediately. The concern I have is that the pound was going

:16:11.:16:14.

down because there are issues about whether we know where we are going

:16:15.:16:19.

from here on in -- makes you poorer almost immediately. After a long

:16:20.:16:22.

period of thinking maybe we would never leave the EU, it is going to

:16:23.:16:25.

take some time before we trigger article 50. In order to start the

:16:26.:16:32.

process of leaving. We now have a timetable. The words we had in the

:16:33.:16:36.

Conservative Party conference were quite... Direct. Direct in terms of

:16:37.:16:43.

hard Brexit minded, if you like. It is funny, during the summer a lot of

:16:44.:16:47.

people said, you see, it's fine, Brexit will be fine, we taking it in

:16:48.:16:52.

our stride, we are bigger than that and almost this delayed reaction

:16:53.:16:54.

that nothing happened for three months until she triggered the

:16:55.:17:01.

starting gun. Now we are seeing what is going to be a year of

:17:02.:17:05.

uncertainty. Clearly, there will be a lot of uncertainty but the

:17:06.:17:08.

interesting thing is this, before Brexit, before anyone thought the UK

:17:09.:17:13.

would leave the EU, the IMF was saying the pound was 12% - 18%

:17:14.:17:17.

overvalued. They thought the pound needed to fall because the UK, for

:17:18.:17:22.

many years, has suffered from quite a major weakness, which is that we

:17:23.:17:26.

consume too much compared to how much we produce. In other words, we

:17:27.:17:33.

have been living beyond our means for years. Our deficit last year was

:17:34.:17:36.

the highest of any G-7 country. You are delighted? I am not delighted

:17:37.:17:40.

but it is a sensible readjustment. I do not like the fact that the

:17:41.:17:44.

markets are so febrile. I am worried about things like the flash crash

:17:45.:17:49.

and cost. But we are already poorer than we thought we were, for many

:17:50.:17:53.

years. This is effectively the reality sinking in. I don't think it

:17:54.:17:57.

is to do with Brexit, it is the catalyst but not the cause. Is that

:17:58.:18:01.

right, Rupert, all that is worrying the people is the speed of the

:18:02.:18:05.

dissent? That if it was a slow descent but roughly to the same

:18:06.:18:08.

place we would not be worrying at all, we would see it as an upside? I

:18:09.:18:13.

do not think it is that simple for two reasons. There is a very real

:18:14.:18:18.

consequence for a fall in the pan for people watching. The things that

:18:19.:18:21.

you buy that manufactures overseas will cost more. The new iPhone has

:18:22.:18:25.

exactly the same dollar price as the old iPhone but it will cost ?50 more

:18:26.:18:30.

in the UK because of a weaker pound. That will be reflected across all

:18:31.:18:36.

sorts of items including food and fuel for their car. Secondly, the

:18:37.:18:39.

thing that we should perhaps be more worried about than the fall in the

:18:40.:18:43.

pound itself is what it means for international perceptions of the UK.

:18:44.:18:47.

I'm in Washington for the IMF meetings and I am finding myself

:18:48.:18:51.

this week doing a lot of explaining. Lots of people are saying what on

:18:52.:18:55.

earth is going on in the UK? They are hearing messages about

:18:56.:18:59.

immigration. There was quite a lot of perhaps naivete around the world

:19:00.:19:02.

that the UK was heading for a soft Brexit, that we would stay in the

:19:03.:19:08.

single market. People are increasingly understand that is

:19:09.:19:10.

probably not going to be the case. This wonderful line from the HSBC

:19:11.:19:14.

analyst who said the pound is now the de facto opposition, it will be

:19:15.:19:17.

the pound that tells this government when it is going too far. Not

:19:18.:19:22.

really, because the pound should have been lowered in the first

:19:23.:19:27.

place. If it gets to parity? If it gets to parity, the pound would be

:19:28.:19:30.

undervalued, yes. You would be horrified at that point? I would be

:19:31.:19:35.

very surprised. The pound is more or less fairly valued now but if it

:19:36.:19:40.

falls further it would be undervalued. There is a perception

:19:41.:19:43.

problem and the government needs to be more explicit as to what it once,

:19:44.:19:46.

nobody understands what the Theresa May government's position is on

:19:47.:19:50.

Brexit, stay in the single market, the customs union? Bizarre rhetoric

:19:51.:19:54.

on immigration, quite worrying also. I am pro-Brexit. It will work out in

:19:55.:19:59.

the end. In the old days, they used to be flights of capital and we used

:20:00.:20:03.

to go to the pound when times were uncertain, why isn't that the case?

:20:04.:20:08.

What is clear is that we haven't got a clue where we will be going. That

:20:09.:20:12.

is a problem. You are right, is something that we all agree on. Life

:20:13.:20:19.

after Brexit is simply too uncertain right now but it also suggests,

:20:20.:20:22.

there are quite a lot of disagreement as to what it means

:20:23.:20:26.

within the government, that there is no confidence in our leaders, if you

:20:27.:20:29.

like, that they know where they are taking us in terms of economic

:20:30.:20:32.

policy. In those times of uncertainty, you sell the pound, you

:20:33.:20:35.

will not invest in this place. That is exactly what is going on.

:20:36.:20:39.

Unfortunately, what it also does, it increases cost to businesses.

:20:40.:20:44.

Perhaps he is right, that the pound was overvalued, but we tend to

:20:45.:20:49.

import an awful lot of things into our manufacturing process. Import

:20:50.:20:53.

costs are rising substantially. Current account right now, it is

:20:54.:20:57.

widening. The data from August suggests it is getting worse instead

:20:58.:21:01.

of getting better. Actually, we are not solving anything through this

:21:02.:21:04.

devaluation. Interesting, Rupert, the cost of the iPhone, you

:21:05.:21:08.

mentioned, and we heard in the film, consumers will be buying more

:21:09.:21:12.

domestically, do you think that is going to happen, could that happen?

:21:13.:21:16.

That we stop buying from overseas? It will happen. We saw this a bit

:21:17.:21:21.

after 2008, 2009 when we had a big devaluation of the pound in response

:21:22.:21:25.

to lower growth expectations. Concern about the UK banking sector.

:21:26.:21:28.

Over the years that followed that, we saw benefit, but is disappointed.

:21:29.:21:36.

Expectations were disappointed because the manufacturing response

:21:37.:21:39.

wasn't as big as people hope. That speaks to the fact that global

:21:40.:21:42.

economy is quite different from what it used to be. In the UK, we don't

:21:43.:21:47.

sell things that, you know, when it only depends on price. We sell

:21:48.:21:50.

products where it depends on quality, long-term relationships

:21:51.:21:52.

with your customers. Just devaluing your currency by itself is not

:21:53.:21:57.

enough, necessarily. Let me... We might just after the financial

:21:58.:22:02.

crisis. The bigger question, what to put this briefly to you all, when

:22:03.:22:06.

the world is looking at us with a weak pound, it is impossible not to

:22:07.:22:10.

see yourself for all the benefits and you can talk about it whatever

:22:11.:22:14.

you want, it feels as if we are in a position of weakness, isolation or

:22:15.:22:18.

weakness. We are not in a position of isolation, that is wrong.

:22:19.:22:22.

Weakness? We're not in a position of weakness. Our economy has problems

:22:23.:22:25.

and it needs to be resolved but Brexit does not create that

:22:26.:22:29.

weakness. The Europeans have made very clear that they will go for

:22:30.:22:33.

hard Brexit themselves in a sense not really giving anything to us.

:22:34.:22:36.

Which means we have actually in a strange way isolated ourselves and

:22:37.:22:40.

made more difficult to have dealings with Europe. The world's trade

:22:41.:22:44.

environment is slowing down. Nobody knows where this will actually end.

:22:45.:22:48.

There is a negotiation going on. We have nowhere else to sell to the

:22:49.:22:51.

goods trade has declined in the first half of the year. We are in a

:22:52.:22:56.

weak position right now in terms of a negotiating stance. Thank you for

:22:57.:22:57.

coming. In case you were confused

:22:58.:23:00.

by what happened in the European parliament yesterday,

:23:01.:23:02.

today it all got much weirder. Ukip's Mike Hookem emerged to deny

:23:03.:23:04.

punching Steven Woolfe, the Ukip frontrunner

:23:05.:23:06.

who ended up in hospital, and clarified that instead they had

:23:07.:23:08.

wrestled like "a pair of tarts". After an office conflab on what that

:23:09.:23:12.

actually looks like, So we sent Secunder Kermani

:23:13.:23:15.

to find Mr Hookem and see Ukip has had its fair share

:23:16.:23:19.

of embarrassment over the years. Mike Hookem MEP, is at the centre

:23:20.:23:26.

of one of its largest. Previous favourite for party leader,

:23:27.:23:32.

Steven Woolfe, is still in hospital in Strasbourg,

:23:33.:23:33.

following an altercation with Mike Hookem yesterday

:23:34.:23:35.

in the European Parliament. Hookem's back in Britain, now,

:23:36.:23:37.

despite rumours on social media. ..Because there was all kinds

:23:38.:23:46.

of stuff going around yesterday, You were jumping in the back

:23:47.:23:50.

of lorries, according to Twitter. Yeah, I was on a rubber dinghy

:23:51.:24:02.

in the middle of the I was being pursued

:24:03.:24:05.

across France by the gendarmes. He says it all began

:24:06.:24:09.

during a discussion between Woolfe and other MEPs over Woolfe's

:24:10.:24:11.

admission he recently considered He took umbrage and stood up

:24:12.:24:13.

and said, "Well, if that's going to be the tone

:24:14.:24:25.

of this meeting, maybe And his words were mano

:24:26.:24:27.

el mano. So, he;s now heading out the room,

:24:28.:24:30.

taking his jacket off. So, I went into the ante-room

:24:31.:24:42.

with him. And what's going through your mind

:24:43.:24:44.

when he said mano a mano? Well, I'm from Hull,

:24:45.:24:50.

if you get offered out in Hull and you don't go,

:24:51.:24:52.

you're bit of a wimp. I shouldn't have made

:24:53.:24:57.

that decision. But he offered me

:24:58.:25:05.

out, so I was going. He come at me and it was

:25:06.:25:08.

just a bit of a tussle. The door opened, I stepped back

:25:09.:25:20.

and he fell back into the room onto a colleague that was stood

:25:21.:25:24.

in the room. He didn't hit his head, I'm sorry,

:25:25.:25:26.

he never hit his head on anything. He is being quoted as saying

:25:27.:25:32.

you threw a punch. If I had a tussle with him,

:25:33.:25:35.

would that cause a seizure? So when he said mano a mano,

:25:36.:25:46.

was that uncharacteristic for him? And probably won't be

:25:47.:25:57.

saying it to me again. When Woolfe's released

:25:58.:26:08.

from hospital, he and Hookem have The damage done to Ukip

:26:09.:26:10.

and its reputation at a crucial time for the party could take

:26:11.:26:14.

much longer to repair. For American commentators

:26:15.:26:19.

on the left right now, one question seems to override all

:26:20.:26:21.

others. Why isn't Hillary Clinton

:26:22.:26:23.

hammering her Republican Why do his blunders and hypocrisies

:26:24.:26:25.

seem to leave no mark on the man, Why do his blunders and hypocrisies

:26:26.:26:32.

seem to leave no mark on the man. Tonight, another video of Trump's

:26:33.:26:41.

past has emerged that would sink One writer argues it may have less

:26:42.:26:44.

to do with HIM and more to do with HER -indeed,

:26:45.:26:52.

to do with the failings of the Democrats and Obama as a whole

:26:53.:26:55.

over the last eight years. Thomas Frank is a political analyst

:26:56.:26:57.

and commentator who's new book argues that the Democrats have badly

:26:58.:27:00.

let down the people. Nice for you to come in. I won't

:27:01.:27:02.

talk about Americans. Most Europeans still can't

:27:03.:27:06.

understand why Hiallry Clinton isn't Against somebody who seems to trip

:27:07.:27:12.

himself up the whole time. Like a demagogue out of a movie from the

:27:13.:27:19.

1930s. He has done so many things that was destroy an ordinary

:27:20.:27:23.

politician. This Titanic won't sink. We are taking him seriously as you

:27:24.:27:27.

are as a potential winner of the presidency. It's possible it could

:27:28.:27:31.

happen. It seems unlikely. I think Hillary Clinton will win, for the

:27:32.:27:35.

record. The Donald Trump phenomenon is striking, this is amazing this is

:27:36.:27:40.

happening. What it represents, to a large degree, is the desperation of

:27:41.:27:49.

a large chunk of middle America de-industrialised form

:27:50.:27:51.

industrialised parts of the United States and it is the largest shift

:27:52.:27:54.

of working-class voters in the United States away from their

:27:55.:27:57.

traditional home in the Democratic party to the Republican party. This

:27:58.:28:01.

has happened over a long time. Why have the Democrats lost them? That

:28:02.:28:05.

is half of the question and a big part of it is the Democrats refuse

:28:06.:28:09.

to ask that question of themselves, by the way. Democrats have lost

:28:10.:28:12.

them, because they basically look at what is happening to these people

:28:13.:28:15.

and say, you know, there's nothing that can be done to save your way of

:28:16.:28:19.

life. In the middle class in America is crumbling. That is just

:28:20.:28:22.

globalisation. That's just technology doing its thing. But at

:28:23.:28:26.

the same time, Democrats have embraced this kind of liberalism

:28:27.:28:30.

that is... Clearly, a liberalism of the rich. OK? They aren't concerned

:28:31.:28:35.

with working-class voters any more but they are very concerned with the

:28:36.:28:41.

attitudes and tastes of, say, the professional class in America. OK,

:28:42.:28:45.

but if the answer was to move away from globalisation, that was the one

:28:46.:28:48.

that Bernie Sanders was screaming for a year and it didn't work in

:28:49.:28:52.

terms of winning the nomination. LAUGHTER

:28:53.:28:53.

You about the entire Democratic party came together to stop him, you

:28:54.:28:56.

know, you realise, that is what happened. This takes us back to the

:28:57.:29:01.

first order, the e-mail scandal. As we now know, I should say. -- first

:29:02.:29:07.

story. So, you basically think Bernie Sanders would have won that

:29:08.:29:11.

nomination? I don't think so but the challenge was worth making. This is

:29:12.:29:15.

the Democrats that need to look inside and ask themselves why this

:29:16.:29:19.

is happening. They also have to re-evaluate their long history. One

:29:20.:29:24.

of the issues that Trump talks about are the lousy trade deals as he

:29:25.:29:28.

likes to put it that our country has signed. There is no figure in

:29:29.:29:30.

American history more closely identified with those trade deals

:29:31.:29:35.

than Bill Clinton. Hillary Clinton's husband, a Democrat. When he signed

:29:36.:29:39.

off on the first of those lousy trade deals, he did it over the

:29:40.:29:43.

opposition of his own supporters and organised labour. He stuck the knife

:29:44.:29:45.

in their back and people remember that. You think that Trump is a

:29:46.:29:51.

product of Obama as well? To some degree. He is a reaction to Obama.

:29:52.:29:55.

We have the financial crisis in America, it originated in my country

:29:56.:29:58.

and came here, you're welcome! Thank you! President Obama was elected in

:29:59.:30:05.

this great wave of hope and enthusiasm in 2008. I thought he was

:30:06.:30:09.

going to be my generation's Franklin Roosevelt, to come in and put things

:30:10.:30:13.

right. Instead, here we are, almost eight years later. For a large part

:30:14.:30:18.

of the American public, the recession has never ended. The

:30:19.:30:23.

American stock market is doing phenomenally well, wealthy people

:30:24.:30:26.

have seen everything bounce right back. But for a lot of ordinary

:30:27.:30:29.

Americans, there has been no recovery. Great to have you here,

:30:30.:30:31.

thank you very much. That's all we have

:30:32.:30:33.

time for, goodnight. Have a great weekend, we are back on

:30:34.:30:36.

Monday. Good evening. The weather is looking

:30:37.:30:51.

relatively settled and

:30:52.:30:52.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS