19/10/2016 Newsnight


19/10/2016

Evan Davis with reports on child refugees, customs unions, the future of banks, a retrospective pardon for gay men, and writer John Banville.


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Transcript


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Is it the usual refugee-bashing panic, but this time applied

:00:00.:00:00.

Or are adults taking Britain for a ride, stretching the word

:00:00.:00:12.

"children" in order to get into the country?

:00:13.:00:18.

Which is worse - giving refuge to grown-ups that

:00:19.:00:20.

Or leaving children behind that you did?

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The refugee issue keeps on dividing the nation.

:00:25.:00:33.

All safe passage clients but go through our process are verified,

:00:34.:00:41.

bake the family link and the age. I think it's a distraction, these are

:00:42.:00:43.

children that need to be treated like children.

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We'll ask how you tell children and adults apart,

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Also tonight, this man was boss of Barclays until last year.

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Listen to what he's saying now, in this film he's made for us.

:00:53.:00:56.

I believe that in 20 years' time we may not need banks at all. We'll see

:00:57.:01:04.

a wave of technology driven financial services that will change

:01:05.:01:10.

the way we all use and move money. It's not that the banks can't adapt,

:01:11.:01:14.

it's that the system is fundamentally broken.

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And we talk to former Man Booker winner, the Irish novelist

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John Banville, and now author of the TV Crime series,

:01:22.:01:24.

I watch these things like The Bridge but every single one of these shows

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start off with a young woman being raped, murdered, is and thrown into

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a garbage dump. If I were a woman I would be protesting very loudly

:01:44.:01:44.

about this. There are times when every normal

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teenager wants to be an adult. And there are also those abnormal

:01:49.:01:52.

times, when certain teenagers desperately want to be

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treated as children. The line between the two

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is sometimes a fine one. The pictures of some of the young

:01:58.:02:00.

people being brought into this country from Calais has led

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to a certain indignant surprise among some - it has ignited

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predictable suggestions that adults are making a mockery of our attempt

:02:07.:02:08.

to help children. That we are giving refuge to people

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we didn't mean to let in. That may or not be true,

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but it does seem that last week's bid to bring some of the children

:02:17.:02:19.

of Calais here was Secunder Kermani has spent the day

:02:20.:02:22.

in the Jungle. The camp they call the Jungle is

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home to up to 10,000 migrants, men, women, families and around 1000

:02:49.:02:53.

unaccompanied children. All this is meant to be raised to the ground in

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the next few days so belatedly the Home Office has begun to focus its

:02:58.:03:01.

efforts on bringing over those children eligible to come to the UK

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because they have relatives in Britain. Some of those who have been

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brought over, according to critics, look far older than 17. Here in

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Calais there are different criticisms, that what is being done

:03:17.:03:20.

is too little too late. I think we can all agree today is one to

:03:21.:03:25.

celebrate. We've seen 15 unaccompanied children arrive safely

:03:26.:03:29.

and legally in the UK in the arms of their loved ones as part of this

:03:30.:03:33.

process. But the process is chaotic and confusing here on the ground in

:03:34.:03:38.

Calais. We've got hundreds of children eligible for this process

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and we are very concerned but the vulnerable ones will be left behind.

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There is some talk of the process allowing in people who aren't really

:03:47.:03:50.

children as well, do you have concerns about that? I don't, I

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trust the Home Office's verification process and all clients who go

:03:57.:03:59.

through our process are verified. With the family link and the age of

:04:00.:04:04.

that child. I think it's a distraction, these are children who

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need to be treated like children. Those unaccompanied children who

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have relatives in Britain are interviewed by officials in Calais

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and their relatives are contacted to. This boy is from Afghanistan and

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has just started the process, telling authorities he is 13.

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TRANSLATION: I submitted my case they said they would hear from -- I

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would hear from them in three days. One of his friends died last month

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trying to board a lorry. He had a brother in Manchester and was

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eligible but delays with his application led him to take his

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chances. He was a friend, he was a good guy, but he died. That incident

:04:49.:04:54.

happened and London should take in more miners so incidents don't

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happen like this in future. There clearly are lots of genuine and

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vulnerable children here, there are also many desperate enough to claim

:05:03.:05:09.

to be children to escape. For those over 18, the closure of this camp is

:05:10.:05:13.

unlikely to be the end of their journey, despite French plans to

:05:14.:05:16.

relocate them across the country. The worry is the people who won't

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seek asylum in France and won't go to accommodation centres, and still

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want to live in the UK. They'll be forced to disappear and won't have

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the support of the organisations or infrastructure here to supply them

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with quality of life. How many people are likely to want to try and

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get to Britain? I imagine there will be thousands. Frustration in the

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camp has increased as the deadline to demolish it draws ever closer. As

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the light goes down in Calais, that's when the tensions between

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those living in the camp and the police begin to rise. You see the

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scenes of conflict with tear gas being thrown. We've been told by aid

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workers that with the imminent destruction of the camp coming,

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those living here including the children, are becoming more and more

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desperate in their attempts to get to Britain. This is clearly no place

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for any child. But even if the Home Office somehow manages to bring over

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all those children with relatives in Britain, it leaves stranded here

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even more with no link to the UK but desperate to go there.

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Conservative Councillor David Simmonds is responsible

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for children's services at Hillingdon Council,

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which covers Heathrow Airport and oversees the processing of many

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Beth Gardiner Smith is the organiser on child refugees from Citizens UK,

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which oversees Safe Passage, who you saw in the film.

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Beth, is it being well handled this attempt to bring some of the

:07:00.:07:05.

children to the UK or is it a bit of a model? It's fair to say it is

:07:06.:07:10.

quite shambolic what is going on at the moment. In the camp you can't

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people with megaphones walking around calling for children to come

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forward to register themselves on separate lists. Who is doing that?

:07:21.:07:27.

UK mandated agencies. Going around with megaphones? Calling for

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children to put themselves forward because the clock is ticking,

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demolition is within a matter of days, and they simply don't have the

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information they need. As I understand it organisations like

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yours have been carefully compiling lists. Absolutely, and we've

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submitted those to the Home Office, they have them and we are working

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with them to bring those children know that possible. But it is

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chaotic. The Home Office has focused on this and we welcome that, but

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it's been quite late in the day. It seemed like nothing was happening

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and suddenly at the last minute... Indeed, we've been working for over

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a year in Calais to get the Home Office to focus on the children who

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have a legal right to come to the UK. You could give the Home Office

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the names, the list, and you could find those young people and say we

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think we know where they are? The reality is we have, and we've also

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told them of discrepancies on their own list. The reality is it's chaos,

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and the problem is that children will go missing in that chaos. We

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are deeply concerned children are going to drop off those lists,

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particularly vulnerable children, are not on any list and with

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demolition days away they will simply disappear. Some who should be

:08:43.:08:46.

coming will not get here? Absolutely. You've got a lot of

:08:47.:08:51.

experience in the area. Is it a problem that adults pretend to be

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kids and it's quite hard to tell the difference, they don't have any

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documents, and you see people you don't believe our children? Councils

:09:00.:09:05.

have been dealing with this problem for a long time. Back in 1999 the

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Royal Society of paediatricians made it clear in their advice that

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medical evidence was not reliable for determining someone's age

:09:16.:09:18.

definitively and that was backed up by the British Dental Association.

:09:19.:09:22.

Councils have to go through a process where trained staff

:09:23.:09:26.

interviewed children to try and get the best possible information they

:09:27.:09:30.

can to determine their age. Because young people are treated more

:09:31.:09:33.

favourably by the way UK immigration works there is an incentive for some

:09:34.:09:38.

who are trying to disguise their circumstances to pretend they are

:09:39.:09:41.

younger than they are. In regards to Calais, we've always known the vast

:09:42.:09:47.

majority of those there under 18 were older teenagers. We would

:09:48.:09:50.

expect the people arriving wouldn't look like small children but they

:09:51.:09:55.

would be people towards the age of 17 or 18. You do make some effort to

:09:56.:09:59.

screen adults from children. I'm wondering how well you think you can

:10:00.:10:04.

do that, if you're not using dental or medical techniques to do it,

:10:05.:10:09.

interviewing people, can you really tell what age someone is by

:10:10.:10:14.

interviewing them? The process that councils use start with checking out

:10:15.:10:18.

what evidence is available to prove a person's age. That might be a

:10:19.:10:22.

passport or birth certificate. Once we know which country a person has

:10:23.:10:27.

come from will often make contact with the authorities in that country

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because of the person doesn't have evidence, it may be the authorities

:10:31.:10:35.

can provide it. In Afghanistan it's common to be able to track down

:10:36.:10:39.

detailed records. If none of that is available then trained staff will

:10:40.:10:43.

work in teams where they will look to interview a person over a period

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of several days to get expert opinions from others which might

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include doctors and other professionals, to look at what

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they've been saying about their education, the things they've done

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in their lives, to try and get a true picture. Whilst that won't give

:10:58.:11:03.

you an exact date of birth it will give you a more accurate idea that a

:11:04.:11:08.

person saying they are 16 or 17 is that age, or they might be in their

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20s or as has happened sometimes, much younger. When you can properly

:11:13.:11:20.

ascertained someone's age, maybe by getting documentary evidence, how

:11:21.:11:24.

many turn out to have been lying? Is it the occasional person or are we

:11:25.:11:28.

talking about a large minority? Of the total that come to the UK who

:11:29.:11:34.

make an asylum claim and claim to be children, the proportion who are

:11:35.:11:38.

subsequently found not to be children is quite high, it's around

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60%. That's very high. It's very high in the overall number. That's

:11:45.:11:51.

the historic record? That's extraordinary. That's consistently

:11:52.:11:55.

over many years. The ones who come into the care of councils ones who

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have already been through a UK border process that has identified

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they are probably children. The proportion of those who go through

:12:03.:12:06.

council assessment and turn out not to be children is lower, although

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there are many councils who end up in the courts with disputes about

:12:11.:12:14.

this. It's important we get the evidence right because we don't want

:12:15.:12:18.

to see situations where adults trying to disguise their

:12:19.:12:21.

circumstances might find themselves in a children's home with vulnerable

:12:22.:12:26.

youngsters. Beth, your colleague in Calais called it a distraction, it

:12:27.:12:31.

does sound bite that is a serious concern. If you have adults sitting

:12:32.:12:35.

next to children, sleeping next to children... That's why you do the

:12:36.:12:39.

checks in the first place and the Home Office does the checks before

:12:40.:12:44.

the children are transferred to the UK. There are checks in place but

:12:45.:12:48.

the real issue here is that the chaos is meaning that there are a

:12:49.:12:53.

large number of highly vulnerable, very young children that are simply

:12:54.:12:59.

not being catered for. The Home Office do not have a process that

:13:00.:13:03.

those children who are eligible under the dogs law passed by

:13:04.:13:08.

Parliament earlier this year. There is no process in place for those

:13:09.:13:14.

children -- dubs law. We are working with children under 13, orphans who

:13:15.:13:19.

are at serious risk, highly vulnerable, taking crazy risks every

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night. All the while the Calais camp is due to be demolished in days.

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Thank you. There is news tonight

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that the government is about to announce a pardon

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for all those convicted of the long abolished sexual offences,

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notably buggery and gross As long it was consenting men over

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16, and is not illegal This was in the Tory manifesto,

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and follows the exceptional pardon that granted to the late Alan Turing

:13:43.:13:46.

back in 2013. We are now joined by

:13:47.:13:51.

George Montague, who was convicted Tell us about your conviction and

:13:52.:14:14.

what it was for? May I start by saying that I was brought up in a

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small country village where every boy longed to the Scouts. That

:14:18.:14:23.

formed my character. You do your best and you never, ever tell a lie.

:14:24.:14:34.

I woke one morning and thought, why am I still living a lie? I just

:14:35.:14:42.

started campaigning for an apology to all gay men. In my generation to

:14:43.:14:51.

be gay was to be guilty. You did not have to do anything at all. The best

:14:52.:14:58.

young -- the best looking young policeman in the station was not

:14:59.:15:03.

gay, not in uniform. They were not getting so many because we became

:15:04.:15:09.

very clever and we were very disrupted -- discreet. But they sent

:15:10.:15:12.

in these young policeman and so many, many men were caught and

:15:13.:15:19.

convicted, all in the local newspapers. Several suicides. I

:15:20.:15:28.

think to myself, why? Why don't I do something about it? Tell us how much

:15:29.:15:34.

it means to you. In a way people will say it is of no practical

:15:35.:15:39.

significance now. But maybe it isn't of practical significance, but it

:15:40.:15:44.

sounds like it is more about setting the record straight? Yes. There

:15:45.:15:51.

never should have been an offence of gross indecency. It didn't apply to

:15:52.:15:55.

heterosexuals. Heterosexuals could do what they liked in doorways,

:15:56.:16:00.

passageways, in the backs of their car. It only applied to gay men.

:16:01.:16:08.

That is not right, surely? I want that complete law scrubbed, got rid

:16:09.:16:13.

of, and my conviction scrubbed. We don't know all the details but are

:16:14.:16:18.

you a happy man to hear that the government appears to be supporting

:16:19.:16:23.

a Private members Bill being debated on Friday. The government are going

:16:24.:16:26.

to give it time and say, let's white all of these fences off? I couldn't

:16:27.:16:35.

be happier. Except one thing. I will not accept a pardon. To accept a

:16:36.:16:41.

pardon means you accept you were guilty. I was not guilty of

:16:42.:16:45.

anything. I was only guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong

:16:46.:16:49.

time. My name was on the queer list, which the police had in those days.

:16:50.:16:54.

I will not accept a pardon. I think it was wrong to give Alan Turing,

:16:55.:17:00.

one of my heroes, it was wrong to give him a pardon. What was he

:17:01.:17:05.

guilty of? He was guilty of the same as what they call me guilty of.

:17:06.:17:11.

Being born only able to fall in love with another man. I married. I loved

:17:12.:17:20.

my wife. And you had children as well. We had children. You feel the

:17:21.:17:29.

apology is more important than the pardon? They give Alan Turing an

:17:30.:17:33.

apology first and then they gave him a pardon. You think the apology is

:17:34.:17:38.

the more important of the two, particularly for somebody who is

:17:39.:17:44.

dead? If I get the apology, I don't mind about the pardon. It is not

:17:45.:17:49.

only me. There are still 11,000 older men like me still alive. I

:17:50.:17:55.

talked to some of them. My great friend, Lord Edward Montagu, he

:17:56.:18:01.

served a year in prison. I said to him, come on, surely you deserve an

:18:02.:18:05.

apology? And he said unlike lots of my contemporaries said, or George,

:18:06.:18:13.

leave it. Let it lie. I am not going to. Something as happened. Thank you

:18:14.:18:15.

for talking to us. You've seen technology

:18:16.:18:18.

undermine high street travel Maybe you felt a bit sorry

:18:19.:18:20.

for the people whose But imagine if technology

:18:21.:18:23.

destroyed the banks? Would you shed tears,

:18:24.:18:26.

or think of it as payback Well, this is not a hypothetical

:18:27.:18:28.

question. Technology is undermining the banks'

:18:29.:18:31.

business models right now. Don't take it from me -

:18:32.:18:34.

take it from someone Anthony Jenkins was Chief Executive

:18:35.:18:40.

of Barclays until last year - now he thinks banks

:18:41.:18:45.

will potentially disappear. We asked him to make

:18:46.:18:46.

a film to explain why. In 2008, banks in the UK

:18:47.:18:54.

and across the world suffered one of the worst crises

:18:55.:18:58.

in their history. Trust among consumers was lost,

:18:59.:19:01.

the banks were too aggressive, too self-serving, too focused

:19:02.:19:03.

on the short-term. Eight years on, while balance sheets

:19:04.:19:10.

look a little healthier, what banks fear now is far scarier

:19:11.:19:14.

than a credit crisis. Like the dinosaurs,

:19:15.:19:17.

destruction could be rapid, Now British banks have always used

:19:18.:19:22.

technology to improve products From the world's first

:19:23.:19:33.

ATM here in Enfield, to the 40 million mobile banking

:19:34.:19:38.

apps that were downloaded last year. But now banks face a challenge

:19:39.:19:43.

of a totally new set of rivals, ones Many established industries have

:19:44.:19:47.

already been disrupted. Consider how Uber has transformed

:19:48.:19:55.

taxis, threatening to put traditional cab operators

:19:56.:19:59.

out of business. So what are the Uber

:20:00.:20:04.

moments for banks? People in businesses lend to each

:20:05.:20:06.

other through online services that match lenders directly

:20:07.:20:11.

with borrowers. These firms are entirely online,

:20:12.:20:14.

with lower overheads With middlemen cut out,

:20:15.:20:16.

borrowers get lower rates. Savers get better headline rates,

:20:17.:20:23.

and the banks themselves Foreign exchange companies already

:20:24.:20:26.

make it ten times cheaper to send money abroad

:20:27.:20:31.

than traditional banking. They have managed to remove

:20:32.:20:36.

all of the charges banks and brokers have kept hidden for decades,

:20:37.:20:39.

and users have access to the real Driven by new technologies,

:20:40.:20:42.

these companies are not only changing the way that customers

:20:43.:20:47.

interact with banks, they're also changing the way

:20:48.:20:50.

that businesses interact But while fintech businesses

:20:51.:20:53.

are creating real change in how we interact with financial services,

:20:54.:21:03.

they still ride on the rails of this These are still the businesses

:21:04.:21:07.

holding almost all the world's money, and they're almost solely

:21:08.:21:16.

responsible for moving it around. Whether you are taking

:21:17.:21:21.

about a peer-to-peer loan, or moving your money overseas

:21:22.:21:25.

online, you are still One of the most important roles

:21:26.:21:28.

of banks is to hold accurate records Without banks, how would you know

:21:29.:21:32.

when I said I was sending you ?10, One solution is distributed ledger

:21:33.:21:40.

technology, a tamper-proof public record of every transaction

:21:41.:21:47.

happening in the world without needing any kind

:21:48.:21:50.

of banks to control it. If person A pays person B the system

:21:51.:21:55.

knows whether person A has the money, and creates a public

:21:56.:21:58.

record of the transaction without revealing the actual

:21:59.:22:00.

balances and details to anyone. The same thing could be done

:22:01.:22:07.

for savings and loans, bonds and shares - almost every

:22:08.:22:09.

aspect of today's financial system. This technology is cheaper, quicker,

:22:10.:22:13.

and even safer and more I believe that in 20 years,

:22:14.:22:18.

we may not need banks at all. We will see a wave of

:22:19.:22:24.

technology-driven financial services that will change the way

:22:25.:22:28.

we all use and move money. It's not that the banks can't adapt

:22:29.:22:31.

- it's that the system And while these technologies might

:22:32.:22:39.

be bad news for traditional banks, it could be good news

:22:40.:22:50.

for everyone else. Because this technology revolution

:22:51.:22:52.

will allow a return to a banking system based on values that serve

:22:53.:22:56.

customers better, reduce risk to society and improve

:22:57.:22:58.

returns to shareholders. And isn't that the banking

:22:59.:23:00.

system we all deserve? Antony Jenkins there, and we should

:23:01.:23:12.

point out that he is involved I'm joined now by Hazel Morre,

:23:13.:23:16.

co-founder of the investment bank, FirstCapital, which invests in some

:23:17.:23:25.

of these fintech companies. Do you agree that it is going to be

:23:26.:23:34.

a really big radical change in the next 20 years? I really do. In 20

:23:35.:23:41.

years, banks may not exist in the kind of form we see them today. Many

:23:42.:23:46.

industries have been totally disrupted by the Internet and

:23:47.:23:51.

changing consumer behaviour. COBRA is the largest taxi company in the

:23:52.:23:56.

world. It has no taxis. Amazon is the largest retailer in the world.

:23:57.:24:04.

It has no shops. He did say that at the moment all of these apps and

:24:05.:24:08.

platforms basically come back to banks. They use the banking system

:24:09.:24:11.

as the platform of everything they are doing? They do. It is unlikely

:24:12.:24:18.

we will see a wholesale replacement of the banking infrastructure. But

:24:19.:24:20.

there are regulations coming down the line that will force banks to

:24:21.:24:24.

open the infrastructure to third parties. There is the payment

:24:25.:24:29.

services under to directive which will force banks to open up their

:24:30.:24:34.

payment structures. Third parties will be able to offer services on

:24:35.:24:39.

top. It will be like Openreach and broadband? Absolutely. The danger

:24:40.:24:45.

for banks is that they become a utility. And all of the value goes

:24:46.:24:52.

to the providers. A lot of people say why pay the banks such a big

:24:53.:24:58.

margin if I can give money to you directly because we have an app? A

:24:59.:25:05.

lot of this exists now. None of it has been stressed tested. Banks,

:25:06.:25:11.

most of the time, our fine. It is only every 100 years they have a

:25:12.:25:14.

horrible crisis and fall apart. Are you confident that peer-to-peer

:25:15.:25:21.

lending, say, that when everybody wants to get out, there isn't going

:25:22.:25:25.

to be a run on them and people will find they can't get their money out

:25:26.:25:29.

because there isn't a big stock of capital as in a bank? That is a

:25:30.:25:38.

valid concern. What is important to realise that peer-to-peer lending is

:25:39.:25:43.

that it is not a substitute for a high interest savings account. It is

:25:44.:25:46.

not something that you should invest in if you need your money in a

:25:47.:25:49.

hurry. It is a relatively sophisticated product and it carries

:25:50.:25:54.

high risk. It should only be part of, for example, a portfolio. In

:25:55.:26:01.

2008, when the banking crisis started, it was most impossible for

:26:02.:26:06.

small businesses to get loans. What peer-to-peer lending allows is an

:26:07.:26:11.

alternative source of credit, which in some respects, should there be an

:26:12.:26:15.

economic crisis, may provide more stability into the system because

:26:16.:26:18.

there is a different sort of credit available. Am I right in thinking

:26:19.:26:24.

that Britain is a leader in this fintech area because we are not bad

:26:25.:26:27.

at technology and we are good at finance? Britain, in particular

:26:28.:26:33.

London, has a fantastic opportunity in fintech to take a global lead in

:26:34.:26:39.

what is a huge industry. In technology, clearly silicon valley

:26:40.:26:44.

is the centre of major innovation, but silicon Valley is not a

:26:45.:26:47.

financial centre. What we have in London and in the UK is an abundance

:26:48.:26:53.

of customers and -- and an abundance of talent and technology. Put those

:26:54.:26:57.

three together and there is an opportunity to develop some

:26:58.:27:00.

important new businesses. Thank you for coming in.

:27:01.:27:07.

The European dream of landing a space probe on Mars appears to be

:27:08.:27:13.

shattered tonight amid growing concern that Schiaparelli has been

:27:14.:27:21.

lost. The probe plunged into the hot dusty atmosphere and towards the

:27:22.:27:26.

surface at 21,000 kilometres per hour. The plan was for a parachute

:27:27.:27:30.

to be deployed. That was going to slow the descent. But radio signals

:27:31.:27:34.

dropped out shortly before touchdown. I'm joined by Professor

:27:35.:27:44.

Mark McCall Quesne. Terribly disappointing after greatest joy at

:27:45.:27:47.

the fact that the mother ship had got into orbit earlier on. What is

:27:48.:27:52.

the diagnosis of what has happened? We have to wait until tomorrow

:27:53.:27:58.

morning to see if we actually have data which we captured during the

:27:59.:28:03.

day via the mothership. The trace gas orbiter was monitoring

:28:04.:28:09.

Schiaparelli as it went down. We will be downloading the data

:28:10.:28:15.

overnight. By ten o'clock tomorrow morning we hope to have a much

:28:16.:28:19.

better diagnosis of what actually happened yesterday. We think that,

:28:20.:28:24.

in fact, the signals which we saw dropping out were about 30 seconds

:28:25.:28:28.

before the surface, just as the parachute was jettisoned and we

:28:29.:28:32.

started descending under the rocket thrusters which were going to slow

:28:33.:28:35.

us right down. At the moment we don't know what we will look at it

:28:36.:28:39.

carefully overnight. We can see a little video animation of what it

:28:40.:28:47.

was meant to be. It is an incredibly dangerous and difficult thing to

:28:48.:28:51.

make it work. As we stand now, what would you say the best case is? Is

:28:52.:28:57.

it possible that it is all going to come right? I think it is possible.

:28:58.:29:02.

As a non-betting person, I wouldn't want to stake anything on it.

:29:03.:29:06.

Chances are less than 50%. This was a test and demonstration mission to

:29:07.:29:12.

see how we could get down to the surface using the technology. The

:29:13.:29:15.

critical thing is relaying the data back which has been captured by the

:29:16.:29:20.

TGL. That will teach us a lot about the technologies we employed and how

:29:21.:29:25.

to improve upon them for the mission we are looking forward to in 2020

:29:26.:29:28.

when we put a Rover down to the surface and start driving around,

:29:29.:29:32.

digging deep beneath the surface for signs of life. There are satellites

:29:33.:29:38.

going around Mars, human satellites. Are we going to get a picture? Like

:29:39.:29:44.

we had a picture of the one on the comment. Is it possible that we can

:29:45.:29:51.

contact this thing or view it? We will certainly be working with the

:29:52.:29:54.

Americans because they have the highest resolution camera in orbit

:29:55.:30:00.

flying around, called high Rice. We will be trying to work out where we

:30:01.:30:04.

did touchdown based on the data. They will be targeting to try to get

:30:05.:30:09.

pictures of where we are. But again, everything we do in space is hard,

:30:10.:30:13.

it is risky. We knew that today we would try something very difficult.

:30:14.:30:17.

We should not lose sight of the fact that the trace gas orbiter itself

:30:18.:30:21.

will be sniffing the atmosphere of Mars looking for gases like methane,

:30:22.:30:26.

which may be indicators of life on the planet. That has been fully

:30:27.:30:29.

successful. I think glass half empty, glass half full, we are

:30:30.:30:33.

pretty happy about getting TGL into orbit.

:30:34.:30:38.

It is a little reminiscent of Beagle two, which was such a disappointment

:30:39.:30:48.

in the end. Are you feeling a gut wrenching sadness that the potential

:30:49.:30:52.

for this being lost or is the TG oh part of it solace? When Beagle two

:30:53.:31:00.

went down we had another satellite with it called Mars Express. It's

:31:01.:31:07.

been operating very successfully. I can't hide I'm feeling a little bit

:31:08.:31:11.

down this evening. It's something we planned for four years and we do

:31:12.:31:14.

need to understand what happened. Maybe tomorrow morning will wake up

:31:15.:31:19.

happier people. There's no doubting it, there are a bunch of people in

:31:20.:31:24.

the hotel who are mulling over what happened to day. That's what we do,

:31:25.:31:28.

we take an ambitious tasks and sometimes it works brilliantly well.

:31:29.:31:36.

And today we had 75-80% success so we can't be too downhearted. Thank

:31:37.:31:40.

you for talking to us. It is less than a week

:31:41.:31:43.

until the winner of the Man Booker Prize is announced,

:31:44.:31:46.

a useful reminder for the book-reading classes that it'll

:31:47.:31:48.

soon to be time to purchase Now we can't tell you who has won

:31:49.:31:51.

this year, but we can bring you news of a stocking filler from the man

:31:52.:31:56.

who won it in 2005. He is the Irish novelist,

:31:57.:31:59.

John Banville, whose bone dry and often biting wit is almost

:32:00.:32:01.

as celebrated as his prose. He's now published a memoir

:32:02.:32:04.

of Dublin, called Time Pieces. He's also been talking about U2,

:32:05.:32:06.

the high body count in TV drama and what it means to be singled

:32:07.:32:09.

out by the Booker jury Talking of whom,

:32:10.:32:12.

here's Stephen Smith. I was very young when I first fell

:32:13.:32:15.

in love with libraries. "Miss flushing, blonde, pink

:32:16.:32:21.

and bespectacled, was one of three She stood behind her counter

:32:22.:32:25.

at a raised level so that when I approached her to have my

:32:26.:32:31.

week's borrowings stamped, I would find myself at eye level

:32:32.:32:34.

with her magnificent conical breasts poking against the pale

:32:35.:32:38.

blue angora jumper. It's that particular jumper

:32:39.:32:42.

I see her inveterately in. I'm sure I would have fallen in love

:32:43.:32:47.

with her, another of my phantom darlings, had her bust

:32:48.:32:51.

been less intimidating." John Banville's new one

:32:52.:33:05.

is a memoir of Dublin. Its characters, its splendid

:33:06.:33:08.

Georgian architecture. So we've travelled with him

:33:09.:33:12.

to central London, and its splendid We're in Fitzrovia, said to be

:33:13.:33:16.

the model for a part But curiously, having written this

:33:17.:33:26.

book, I now feel that in some way You must have approached it

:33:27.:33:39.

with some trepidation, given your illustrious

:33:40.:33:49.

predecessors. As a novelist it's almost impossible

:33:50.:33:53.

to write about Dublin, because anywhere you mention

:33:54.:33:59.

will already have been Everyone will say, this

:34:00.:34:02.

is a reference to Joyce. John Banville's best-known

:34:03.:34:11.

for his literary fiction, He won the Booker Prize in 2005,

:34:12.:34:14.

he loved it, but with John Banville You said at the time that

:34:15.:34:22.

you were pleased the Booker had been But also, I did think that now

:34:23.:34:27.

and then it's good that a book like mine should win the prize,

:34:28.:34:40.

that it's not to everybody's taste. I was interviewed by Irish radio,

:34:41.:34:46.

they said, it's a great day Your first wife described

:34:47.:34:52.

you working on a novel, you "were like a murderer

:34:53.:35:12.

who'd just returned It takes a terrible

:35:13.:35:14.

toll on one's family. We are monsters, we would sell our

:35:15.:35:32.

children for a phrase. That could mean that you're just

:35:33.:35:37.

an unpleasant man No, I think that it is

:35:38.:35:39.

true of all writers. A friend of mine was at a dinner

:35:40.:35:44.

party, and one of the people He was sitting opposite her,

:35:45.:35:49.

and he was fascinated He suddenly realised she was just

:35:50.:35:54.

learning how to do him. For the new memoir, Banville went

:35:55.:36:05.

round Dublin with a chum, who had a place next

:36:06.:36:08.

door to U2's studio. I don't suppose John has

:36:09.:36:11.

any stories, does he? I think that I'm one of the few

:36:12.:36:17.

people who has thrown # What more in the name

:36:18.:36:20.

of love # I had a nice house in North Dublin,

:36:21.:36:33.

a lovely garden. At the back of the garden

:36:34.:36:37.

was an old orchard. I went out there one beautiful

:36:38.:36:40.

summer morning, and there And I said to them, this

:36:41.:36:44.

is private property. They all very politely

:36:45.:36:50.

got down and went away. Many years later I realised

:36:51.:36:53.

that it was U2 I had There was a house at the end

:36:54.:36:56.

of the garden and they were staying there, and they had just come out

:36:57.:37:03.

there to have a rest in the trees Under the pen name Benjamin Black,

:37:04.:37:06.

Banville's written the casebook of a 1950s Dublin pathologist,

:37:07.:37:17.

Quirke, who is played on TV My wife said to me,

:37:18.:37:21.

it'll never do well, Nowadays it has to be extreme

:37:22.:37:30.

violence, there has to be blood all over the place,

:37:31.:37:35.

you have to be wading through blood. I watched these things

:37:36.:37:40.

like The Bridge and so on, but every single one of these shows

:37:41.:37:42.

simply start off with a young woman being raped and murdered

:37:43.:37:46.

and eviscerated and thrown If I were a woman I would be

:37:47.:37:50.

protesting very loudly about this. Banville's fans will be glad to know

:37:51.:37:55.

he is working on his next novel. All that experience

:37:56.:38:02.

must come in handy. No experience teaches anybody

:38:03.:38:06.

anything. When I was young I thought age

:38:07.:38:09.

would bring wisdom, it doesn't, But I like confusion,

:38:10.:38:12.

it's a nice state to be in. I think I said earlier that it was

:38:13.:38:35.

in a private members bill, apparently not true, it's a Lib Dem

:38:36.:38:38.

amendment to the policing and crime Bill.

:38:39.:38:41.

On after us on BBC Two, No Such Thing As The News,

:38:42.:38:44.

and if you really want to stay up late, don't forget the last

:38:45.:38:47.

It'll be on the News Channel at two o'clock.

:38:48.:38:50.

You can lie in bed and stream it on your smartphone, if that

:38:51.:38:53.

We'll leave you now though with the music of Carter Burwell,

:38:54.:38:57.

who this evening won Film Composer of the Year

:38:58.:38:59.

at the World Soundtrack Academy Awards, as well as best

:39:00.:39:02.

original music for None of Them Are You from

:39:03.:39:04.

Charlie Kaufman's haunting 2015 stop motion love story,

:39:05.:39:06.

MUSIC: "None of Them Are You" by Carter Burwell

:39:07.:39:13.

# When I see your face or hear a name

:39:14.:39:17.

# It doesn't matter they're all the same

:39:18.:39:29.

Good evening. They could be a frost tonight but into the morning the

:39:30.:40:12.

best of the sunshine, if you

:40:13.:40:14.

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