20/10/2016 Newsnight


20/10/2016

A look at possible Brexit concessions on free movement, the super head teacher model for schools, and whether or not Donald Trump would concede if he lost the US election.


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Transcript


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Newsnight exclusively reveals data that suggests we are rewarding

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the wrong headteachers with the big bucks and the knighthoods.

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It may mean that we have to go back to step one in terms of who is

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running our schools. I'll be asking the Chief Inspector

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of Schools if he agrees. Also tonight, as Theresa May meets

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EU leaders, Newsnight understands that those in Whitehall advocating

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a softer Brexit think the door should be kept open to

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lower-skilled migrants to avoid And another clue about the direction

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of Brexit talks, perhaps, When it comes to pass porting for

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the financial institutions, that is something that has to be negotiated

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as well. But I can say something very clear. If you want to have

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passport in, you need to accept at least, basically, the EU regulation

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that we have and the financial area. I will totally accept the results of

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this great and historic presidential election if I win.

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Today, Donald Trump said something unheard of in modern American

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history - how big a threat is this to American democracy?

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The Government has long had a penchant for parachuting so-called

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The narrative goes like this - head teachers arrives -

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kicks ass - kicks all the bad eggs out -

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pupils and the teachers - results soar - head gets

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Moves to next badly performing school and so on.

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But Newsnight can exclusively reveal new evidence that

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demonstrates that this strategy is not working.

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Chris, a fundamental problem with the way our schools are wrong, then?

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Absolutely right. This research coming out from a peer-reviewed

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publication has looked at 411 English headteachers. What it

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basically find is that we pay almost twice as much to the most short

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termist and destructive head teachers, who just look like they

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are doing a good job, while there is a huge category of teachers who do

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brilliant jobs who basically never get knighthoods and who get paid

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much less. This is phenomenal research, based on data from inside

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schools which has never had a look at. This could be some of the most

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important research for social policy in recent years.

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We spend a lot of time and energy trying to improve schools in

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England. But a new piece of research published tonight in the Harvard

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business review and shared exclusively with Newsnight is

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potentially a breakthrough. It reveals we are getting some very big

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things wrong when it comes to what makes a good head teacher. This new

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research throws up into question whether we are hiring the right

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people to be a high headteachers and whether we are rewarding the right

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people to be our headteachers. It looks at things from a very

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different angle and it may mean that we may have to go back to step one

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in terms of who is running our schools. This new research uses a

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unique data source to work out what works. Administrative data from a

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big group of sample secondary academies, which analysts at the

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center for high performance have used to look at what headteachers

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actually do. We looked at 411 heads and looked at the actions that they

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actually take within their management information systems, how

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they manage staff, how they manage teachers, how they manage students.

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What they paid teachers, how they manage behaviour, how they recruit

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people, how they exclude people. What we have found is that they fall

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into five main categories. There are three of those groups that are

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particularly interesting first of all a group that they dodged the

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surgeons. These are headteachers who act decisively and cut out both

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staff and pupils from their schools as they turned them around. Second,

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the group they call the philosophers. These are headteachers

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who think of themselves as just experienced teachers, not really

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leaders or managers. They talk a lot about pet -- pedagogy in particular.

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This thirdly, the architects, slow and mystical as planners who like to

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do things in secret. These categories are very different.

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Surgeons dropped into a school would be expected to expel as many as 28%

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of the final year students to improve GCSE results. The

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philosophers, 6%. The architects, just 1%. The philosophers don't

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really change anything in terms of staff. While the architects manage

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out poorly performing staff, they recruit replacements, so they end up

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with a bigger staff. Surgeons are very decisive. They make quick

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actions and sometimes those actions are controversial. A cut large

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numbers of students and also get rid of underperforming staff come about

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in the short term they are able to increase examination results very

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quickly. You can see that in this graph, which chose the annual

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average change of exam results while each sort of head is in post. The

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surgeons's schools certainly do much better than the loss of that and the

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architects at getting results up. They massively increase the

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proportion of children who leave with five good GCSEs. Our surgeons

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good in the long term? Surgeons are not good in the long-term because

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they are short is. They aggressively focus on students about to take begs

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nations and expel those who they think will not pass. School leaders

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who take more time and focus on working with the community are able

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to build sustainable schools. Yet is the same chart you saw before but

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let's look at the year after those heads leave. The architects's

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schools are stable but surgeons's schools's results collapse, dropping

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after two years too. Only after three years do surgeons's results

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stabilise, now the architects look the best. But remember, surgeons

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shrink the size of the school by hoofing out kids. The surgeons would

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average only between 50 and 90 students graduating with five or

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more good GCSEs. The architects would leave a school where 160-170

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children each year would get five GCSEs. The raw social good of an

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architect is way bigger. The architects focus on building the

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right school for the future, the right school for its community. They

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start off by improving the environment in the school, improving

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behaviour of the students and improving the leadership, and then

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improving the teaching. They also engage with the local community and

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try and understand what is the right school. For example, they seek

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parental complaints as a positive thing because they believe that

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parents are now engaged with the school, which is the right thing for

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the school going forwards. He would hope that our school system is

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systematically identifying and rewarding those architect

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headteachers. But it isn't. If you look at who the Government gives

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honours two, 60 3% of the surgeon headteachers in our example had a

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gong of some kind. For the architects, it was just 13%. If you

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have a look at who governing bodies are winning to pay the most, you see

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the same pattern. The average surgeon was earning ?154,000 per

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year on average, as opposed to ?86,000 a year for the architects,

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even though they run much bigger schools. Generally when governing

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boards are looking at how to reward their head teachers, they will only

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look at one year's performance. One year's data. And indeed, the system

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as a whole is geared around one or two years in terms of, Ofsted comes

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and visits very frequently in underperforming schools, league

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tables are published every year. So without a doubt, head teachers will

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very much feel that they are on an annual cycle of being monitored. So

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I think we could really do with a sea change where all of us think

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much more about what we need to do to improve schools in the

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medium-term. If that weren't enough, there is another fascinating finding

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too. Of the surgeon headteachers, 71% were PE teachers. Of the

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philosophers, 78% were English teachers. And of the architects, 68%

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were either history or economics teachers. Our most surprising

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finding was the clearly and between the subjects they studied and taught

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and how they then behave as leaders of schools. We believe that this

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clearly comes because they have not had leadership training or exposure

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to other ways of thinking, so they fullback on the values and beliefs

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within the subjects that they have studied and taught over the years.

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For example, PET just believe that our winners and losers and you're

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only as strong as your weakest link. -- PE teachers. So you can see how

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they believe in excluding the worst performing students. We are not

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rewarding heads to make the biggest impact for the longest number over

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the longest period. We are simply rewarding those heads who are best

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at playing the game. Joining me now is Sir Michael

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Wilshaw, who is the Chief Inspector And indeed a former history teacher

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himself! Good evening. Terrifying that some of the best heads in the

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country are being paid the least. I'm really glad this research has

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come out because it confirms things that I have believed in for a long

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time, there are lots of people who go unrecognised to do a fantastic

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job getting good results in the long-term and yet they unrecognised

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and unrewarded. We've got too many people in the system who are into

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self-aggrandisement, empire building, receiving massive salaries

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and who are not building for the future. A great head is not only

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somebody who improves results for all children but also ensures that

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there is a future for the school and gets staff in who can replicate the

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success that they have achieved. Some of this short-term stuff is

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absolutely desperate, because they are going for the quick hit, the

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short-term, the exclusion of that year's GCSE pupils, in these

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so-called quick turnaround is, in some schools it is 28%, in some

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schools it is 50%. Of course you can get any result you want the more

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kids you exclude! If our inspectors found that we would do something

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about it and heavily criticised the school. It doesn't seem to have been

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found. We do criticise schools who have high exclusion rates. We

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produced a report a few months ago on the underperformance of children

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between 11 and 14 at Key stage three because in secondary schools were

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focusing on key stage four, yet and India 11, particular focusing on

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year 11, last year group, to the exclusion of focusing on those

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younger youngsters between 11 and 14, and as a result, although their

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outcomes look good on the surface, they should have been a lot better.

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But you are Chief expects and you are also head of Ofsted. You think

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that this has been a flawed system. Do you think you should have done

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more? Have Ofsted been far too short term is about this? They're not. I

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signed letters every week and if you talk to headteachers who receive

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them, they say they are pleased to receive them, these are headteachers

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in schools that are not good, they are underperforming, but they expect

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to see that the leader is putting into place the building blocks for

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improvement and strategies for long-term growth. I send those

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letters out to save the school is not good yet, the results are not

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good, but you are a good leader and you have got in place those systems

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to improve the school. So why is it that these short-term heads, the

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so-called surgeons, the quick fix guys and girls who get in and get

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out fast, they are getting paid nearly double other heads? We need

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to blame the governors for that and headteachers prepared to commit

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themselves to the community and the school. I get worried about

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headteachers who get the gongs and the big salaries and then go off

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somewhere else for a bigger salary. As they had, I spent a long time in

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schools to make sure that school worked and that the community was

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proud of that institution. We need heads who will commit themselves for

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the long-term. And if they don't do that, the government should do

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something about it. They certainly shouldn't be rewarded by the

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government. Let's move onto more broadly talking about education

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under this Government. Describe the impact that you think Theresa May's

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plans for grammar schools will have? I've been quite open about this, I

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think it is a retrograde step. I came into teaching to improve the

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lot of all children, not just some. If we go down the route of grammar

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schools, the 15% - 20% will do well but the rest will do badly. All you

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have to do is look at areas with grammar schools. Look at Kent, look

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at ducking, Sutton. Look at the attainment gap between those who go

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to the grammar schools than those who don't.

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The best teachers will gravitate to the place where it is easiest to

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teach. All you have to do is speak to people in modern schools in Kent

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and they will say how difficult it is to get staff. If you look at

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London schools, they are doing fantastically well serving the most

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deprived communities. I can take you to academies in Portsmouth and

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Birmingham where you have got great heads, architect heads, who are

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doing very well by their children. The big challenge for our schools

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system is to make sure we have got enough teachers and enough leaders

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in our schools to improve them. It is not about structural change, we

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have had enough of that. If you look back at the tenure of Michael Gove

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and Nicky Morgan, how would you rate that? You were there during those

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years. I was and I have had a lot of admiration for Michael Gove. He

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felt, as I and many other people felt, that we needed to give more

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autonomy to headteachers to make a difference. That has happened. We

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need more diversity in the system with academies and free schools. He

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realised the curriculum and the examination system were not as good

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as they should have been anti-reform to those and we are seeing the

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benefits now. If there was one thing you wished you had pushed harder on,

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what would it be? I wish I had pushed harder on focusing on what it

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matters for those youngsters who are not going to university, those

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youngsters who need skills, who need to go to an apprenticeship. I wish I

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had focused on that much more than I did. That is a big challenge for the

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country, as well as ensuring you have got good teachers.

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In Brussels tonight, Theresa May at her first EU summit

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is addressing the 27 other EU leaders after dinner on the subject

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of the UK's departure from the European Union.

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They apparently have been instructed to listen but stay schtum.

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The body language on both sides tonight will no doubt be cordial,

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but the devil will be in the detail, and one very big detail will be

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Katya Adler, the BBC's Europe Editor, is live in Brussels

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Katya, what has been the reception to Theresa May?

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This is her first EU summit as Britain's Prime Minister and after

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the Brexit vote we would have thought it would be a frosty

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reception. But all the leaders here are seasoned politicians and you can

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call it duplicity or being down bids diplomats, that they are perfectly

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capable of picking holes in each other's politics and being polite to

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each other. But if you listen to the leaders who arrived at this summit,

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there is a noticeable hardening of town. Francois Hollande of France

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said, if she was a hard Brexit, we will give her hard negotiations.

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Even German, the Netherlands and Italy are hardening their tones. We

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have to be careful of expecting things to happen too quickly.

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Although Brexit is one of the most dramatic developments in post-war

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Europe, this is about a process and not a single event. In the meantime

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we are in a holding pattern of screaming silencers. Theresa May

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refuses to tell the leaders the precise details of the Brexit she

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once and they refuse to top details whether and until a formal Brexit

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leaving has started. Tonight all the leaders, including Theresa May,

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talked about Russia and Syria. The Prime Minister insisted the UK

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remains a full EU member until it leaves and demanded not to be cut

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out of, decision-making. The British have voted to leave the EU and

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Theresa May says they will leave the EU, but we are an infinite number of

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decisions and meetings away and tell the UK walks out of the door. One of

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the big issues to deal with freedom of movement and we have learned that

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has been pushed back against the Chancellor and there is believing in

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a softer Brexit who say the doors should be kept open to lower skilled

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migrants coming from the EU to avoid damage to the economy. Theresa May

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has been urged by senior figures in Whitehall to wake to the last minute

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before she triggers Article 50. The EU leaders have to wait until the

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end of March. They are making this case because Britain needs every

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minute to get its ducks in a row. It is working process. You were talking

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about those hostile briefings against Michael Hammond on the Prime

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Minister was not amused by those briefings her Chancellor. There was

:19:59.:20:05.

talk of the time of those briefings imposing rules to keep the doors

:20:06.:20:09.

open to highly skilled workers and make it more difficult for lower

:20:10.:20:13.

skilled workers. But there is a concern if you close the door too

:20:14.:20:17.

much on the lower skilled workers it would be bad for the economy and you

:20:18.:20:21.

would undermine key areas like the care sector.

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Ring a bell? What we think should happen is an Australian style

:20:30.:20:36.

points-based system so we get the people we need for the NHS and for

:20:37.:20:39.

all our other businesses and services. It was one of the defining

:20:40.:20:45.

issues in the referendum campaign, Britain would take back control of

:20:46.:20:50.

its borders and definitively bring down emigration. But it did not take

:20:51.:20:54.

long for Theresa May to say no to that proposal. What the British

:20:55.:20:58.

people voted for was to bring some control into the movement of people

:20:59.:21:03.

from the EU into the UK. A points-based system does not give

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you that control. Since then immigration has unsurprisingly

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emerged as one of the most contentious issues as ministers try

:21:14.:21:17.

to thrash out an agreed UK negotiating position. The

:21:18.:21:21.

Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has found himself under fire from leave

:21:22.:21:26.

supporters after he urged caution at the meeting of the Cabinet's Brexit

:21:27.:21:31.

committee over plans to restrict unskilled workers from the EU. We

:21:32.:21:35.

understand Theresa May was deeply irritated that are misleading

:21:36.:21:39.

account of a discussion behind closed doors was leaked in a

:21:40.:21:43.

deliberate bid to damage the Chancellor. The discussions in

:21:44.:21:47.

Whitehall are described as fluid. Advocates of a hard Brexit are

:21:48.:21:50.

pressing for a system of work permits designed to keep the door

:21:51.:21:55.

open to skilled migrants and narrow opportunities for unskilled workers.

:21:56.:21:59.

Where there is an economic need, the Polish builder is an example, work

:22:00.:22:04.

permits would be issued for less skilled workers. Those advocating a

:22:05.:22:08.

softer Brexit are saying the doors should be kept open much wider to

:22:09.:22:13.

lower skilled workers, or risk undermining, for example, the care

:22:14.:22:18.

sector. One idea is to set a base level for a migrant salary. One

:22:19.:22:22.

remains a porter warned Britain would have to tread carefully. We

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cannot have our cake and eat it, we cannot have complete control over

:22:28.:22:35.

who comes here and at the single market. Is there a compromise where

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we have limited controls over who comes here and limited, but not all

:22:40.:22:44.

membership of the single market? That is possible in theory, whether

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it is negotiable in practice would be difficult legally and

:22:49.:22:53.

politically. A former cabinet minister on the leave aside she said

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Britain should make up its own mind. Immigration should not be a matter

:22:59.:23:02.

for negotiation with the rest of the EU. The point of getting that

:23:03.:23:06.

control over our laws and Borders is that we make those decisions and no

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other country asks us what rules they should apply about access to

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their country for work or travel. We should apply the same rules to

:23:16.:23:20.

people coming from Europe as we do to people coming from other friendly

:23:21.:23:24.

countries. The present system has a whiff of racialism about it with

:23:25.:23:29.

people coming from our former colonial territories who are

:23:30.:23:36.

severely controlled and those coming from white, European countries are

:23:37.:23:41.

not. The same rules should apply to everybody. Theresa May faces a long

:23:42.:23:46.

and winding road before she formally losses there is Brexit negotiations

:23:47.:23:50.

with the rest of the EU, possibly at the last minute at the end of March.

:23:51.:23:53.

The skirmishes have just begun. Earlier today I spoke to the German

:23:54.:23:57.

Deputy Finance Minister, Jens Spahn, to ask about his ambitions

:23:58.:24:00.

for Brexit discussions. I started by asking him

:24:01.:24:03.

whether given Britain is projected to have the strongest growth

:24:04.:24:06.

in the EU this year, despite Brexit, that the UK could do perfectly well

:24:07.:24:09.

outside of the Union. This uncertainty stops investment.

:24:10.:24:21.

It does not bring more growth, but less growth and I think it is

:24:22.:24:25.

important for all of us that we start the process and get an idea

:24:26.:24:33.

where it might end. Let me say this, I think we underestimate the

:24:34.:24:39.

long-term results of this Brexit. Of course we can argue about what is

:24:40.:24:43.

happening in the share markets today, tomorrow and next week, but

:24:44.:24:48.

the long-term situation of Britain as well as the European Union will

:24:49.:24:53.

change and that will affect the economy in a different way, much

:24:54.:24:57.

more than we see today. But I wonder if there is a possibility that we

:24:58.:25:04.

could have EU nationals coming to the UK to work if they have worked

:25:05.:25:09.

rhesus. It is free movement of labour with work visas, in return

:25:10.:25:15.

for access to the single market. Is it not possible these work visas

:25:16.:25:19.

might be a way of negotiating? Between no relations and the

:25:20.:25:24.

internal market there are many options in between, so I am sure we

:25:25.:25:31.

can find something for strong trade and a strong economic agreement and

:25:32.:25:36.

something that is about movement and working in Britain or the other way

:25:37.:25:40.

round, on the continent for British people as well. But if it is really

:25:41.:25:47.

an internal market as it is now in the European Union, then you have to

:25:48.:25:51.

accept the freedom of movement. That is one of the pillars of the

:25:52.:25:57.

European Union, it is one of the most important values that the

:25:58.:26:02.

European Union has to offer to its average citizens and we cannot

:26:03.:26:07.

compromise on that. Is it possible we could make financial

:26:08.:26:10.

contributions as we do now and in return we might be able to continue

:26:11.:26:17.

passports, for example, that is it possible there could be set access

:26:18.:26:24.

in return for contributions? It depends on the package but I do not

:26:25.:26:29.

see the point in paying contributions, paying money to the

:26:30.:26:33.

EU budget that you do not have any control over any more. What is the

:26:34.:26:38.

improvement compared to the situation to day where you are

:26:39.:26:41.

paying money and you have control over it at the same time and

:26:42.:26:45.

discussing what is happening with the money in Brussels? I do not see

:26:46.:26:51.

the point, but if that is something Great Britain once, it can be part

:26:52.:26:55.

of a package. When it comes to pass sporting for the financial

:26:56.:26:59.

institutions, that has to be negotiated as well, but if you want

:27:00.:27:05.

to have that, you need to accept at least basically the EU regulation

:27:06.:27:12.

that we have in the financial area. You cannot become a kind of

:27:13.:27:18.

financial haven, which some people are dreaming of in the UK, some

:27:19.:27:24.

banks are dreaming of it. A very senior figure in Germany

:27:25.:27:31.

representing the German auto industry said the UK is an important

:27:32.:27:40.

market, but actually cohesion of the EU, 27 countries, is more important

:27:41.:27:44.

for this industry. That is an interesting thing for him to say. He

:27:45.:27:49.

seems to be saying even if it meant job losses, it is more important,

:27:50.:27:54.

the very idea of Europe is more important. What do you think of

:27:55.:28:01.

that? He is right. Of course we want to keep this market and we want to

:28:02.:28:06.

have access to this market as open as possible, but not at any cost,

:28:07.:28:12.

not at any price. It depends on the conditions. The internal market,

:28:13.:28:16.

really free access, means you have to accept the freedom of movement

:28:17.:28:20.

and if that is a condition that is not wanted, then we have to accept

:28:21.:28:26.

the access we have today, for example the car market in the UK,

:28:27.:28:31.

might change and we have to find a new settlement about it. Do you

:28:32.:28:36.

think if we did decide when we looked at the deal and we did not

:28:37.:28:41.

like it, is there a way we can get back and with Debbie the good will

:28:42.:28:46.

to take us back? I do not know what will happen in the next few years.

:28:47.:28:50.

We have to see the process and negotiate. I expect this referendum

:28:51.:28:59.

counts, but if there should be a new situation in four years' time, of

:29:00.:29:01.

situation in four years' time, of course we will debate it again.

:29:02.:29:08.

Donald Trump's refusal to commit to the result of the US presidential

:29:09.:29:11.

election in the third presidential debate last night was a serious

:29:12.:29:14.

moment for the world's biggest democracy, even by the terms of this

:29:15.:29:17.

campaign, which apparently shocked even his own backroom team.

:29:18.:29:20.

I watch, do you make the commitment that you will absolutely not. I will

:29:21.:29:32.

look at it at the time. I am not looking at it now. I will look at it

:29:33.:29:37.

at the time. What I have seen is so bad, I will tell you at the time, I

:29:38.:29:42.

will keep you in suspense. Chris, let me respond because that is

:29:43.:29:47.

horrifying. Every time Donald thinks things are not going in his

:29:48.:29:50.

direction commie claims whatever it is is rigged against him. Today at a

:29:51.:29:57.

rally in Delaware, Tom had a moderated message, you will accept

:29:58.:29:59.

the result if he wins. I would like to promise and pledged

:30:00.:30:10.

to all of my voters and supporters and to all of the people of the

:30:11.:30:15.

United States that I will totally accept the results of this great and

:30:16.:30:23.

historic presidential election. If I win!

:30:24.:30:29.

Well, in a moment I will be speaking to an adviser to Donald Trump, but

:30:30.:30:39.

first we will go to the American political historian. Good evening.

:30:40.:30:46.

First of all, how big a deal do you think this was, Donald Trump last

:30:47.:30:49.

night and then today? How dangerous do you think it is, from your

:30:50.:30:56.

perspective? I think it's about as calamitous a development for

:30:57.:30:59.

democracy as can be imagined, not just for the legitimacy of this

:31:00.:31:04.

election but for the legitimacy of thousands of elections that go on in

:31:05.:31:08.

America every year. Losers, and by the way, that is not a moderation of

:31:09.:31:12.

his position at all, saying he will only accept the results of the

:31:13.:31:15.

election if he wins is saying that he will not accept the results of

:31:16.:31:20.

the election is now saying that thousands of politicians around the

:31:21.:31:23.

country can be licensed to do be the same thing and if that happens, we

:31:24.:31:27.

will have a cascade that threatens the very foundations of our

:31:28.:31:31.

republic. It's dangerous. A lot of people will just see this as Donald

:31:32.:31:34.

Trump just blustering, this is just what he does. Well, what he did in

:31:35.:31:43.

2012 was he tweeted that because Barack Obama was ahead in the

:31:44.:31:47.

electoral college at a time in which John McCain was ahead in the popular

:31:48.:31:58.

vote,... He has supporters who treat everything he says as gospel. A lot

:31:59.:32:02.

of the supporters have guns and they have promised to bring them to the

:32:03.:32:06.

polling places. He has a ready distorted the election badly by

:32:07.:32:11.

making people believe it's not legitimate, they may not show up.

:32:12.:32:15.

It's terrible for a country that relies on the rule of law and

:32:16.:32:21.

reciprocal about allegation. You have obviously studied American

:32:22.:32:24.

political history. Has there ever been anything like this? Actually

:32:25.:32:28.

saying that the election could be rigged, before. Never. The Trump

:32:29.:32:36.

people are trying to compare this to 2000 when Al Gore asked for a

:32:37.:32:39.

recount, but what actually happened was when the election was announced

:32:40.:32:44.

for George W Bush, Al Gore accepted the results and then because of the

:32:45.:32:49.

closeness of the result in Florida, an automatic recount was kicked in

:32:50.:32:53.

by the procedure of law and he let that go forward. It's a completely

:32:54.:32:57.

different situation. Completely unprecedented. Let's say that on

:32:58.:33:01.

November the 9th Donald Trump loses the popular vote and challenges,

:33:02.:33:06.

what could actually happen? How long could it go through the courts?

:33:07.:33:12.

Well, we have the precedent in 2000. If it's close enough, which it

:33:13.:33:15.

doesn't look like it's going to be, by the way, in most polls, Linton is

:33:16.:33:23.

6%, 7%, 8%, 9%, 10% ahead. The procedure is actually quite

:33:24.:33:26.

complicated because it is handled state-by-state and precinct by

:33:27.:33:29.

precinct. We don't have a federal election system in America and so it

:33:30.:33:34.

could be a colossal mess and that could be a crisis not only for

:33:35.:33:38.

America but for the world. What do you think the long-term impact of

:33:39.:33:42.

this questioning of the validity of the American electoral system might

:33:43.:33:47.

be? Hopefully nothing. That is up to Mr Trump. I employ him to think of

:33:48.:33:52.

the country, think of the world and do the patriotically and accept the

:33:53.:33:56.

results of the election. If he doesn't, the long-term impact of the

:33:57.:33:59.

most powerful democracy in the world, in the eyes of the rest of

:34:00.:34:04.

the world being questioned, would reverberate everywhere. We would not

:34:05.:34:07.

be able to hold the rest of the world to any kind of standard

:34:08.:34:11.

because the way America has tried to do things for 240 years now.

:34:12.:34:17.

Thank you very much, Rick. We are joined by the foreign adviser to

:34:18.:34:26.

Donald Trump, who declined the opportunity to have a conversation

:34:27.:34:35.

there. Good evening. Good evening. Why is Mr Trump doing this now? You

:34:36.:34:39.

can see clearly that they are trying to make him into a cartoon with

:34:40.:34:43.

these attacks. It is not what he said. If it is rigged, if it is

:34:44.:34:52.

clearly rigged... And to do that, it is not down to him to decide, it is

:34:53.:34:57.

his lawyers and the results coming from various states. The previous

:34:58.:35:02.

figure has mentioned that in 2000 precisely President George Bush and

:35:03.:35:07.

former Vice President Al Gore had asked the investigation and the

:35:08.:35:11.

Supreme Court to decide, is that so different? That was the question of

:35:12.:35:15.

a particular number of votes and Al Gore stepped back. Where is the

:35:16.:35:20.

evidence that Mr Trump is accumulating of rigging? It is all

:35:21.:35:26.

over the Internet. Your viewers can go and check the cases appearing in

:35:27.:35:30.

Colorado, in Florida. This is not to say that rigging is going to happen,

:35:31.:35:35.

but he is taking measures. He is saying, if it is going to happen

:35:36.:35:41.

then I'm going to take measures. I think what he is saying is because,

:35:42.:35:45.

in the last election, when I was the adviser to Governor Romney... The Al

:35:46.:35:55.

Gore situation was quite different because they were mandated for an

:35:56.:36:00.

automatic recount for the hanging chads and that was quite different.

:36:01.:36:08.

Now the Republican senator has said Donald Trump saying he might not

:36:09.:36:13.

accept the result is beyond the pale and it does not have the support of

:36:14.:36:19.

senior Republicans. If Donald Trump said, "If I lose then I will go

:36:20.:36:24.

against it", then yes. But that is not what he said. He said, if there

:36:25.:36:28.

is rigging and if there are problems. He cannot say what the

:36:29.:36:30.

problems are because we're not yet at the ballad box. There he is

:36:31.:36:35.

bets. -- at the ballot box. The day he was perfectly clear that if he

:36:36.:36:43.

wins there will be no investigation. He was talking about if he doesn't

:36:44.:36:47.

win. Is it just Donald Trump last in? I'm sure you saw the video. He

:36:48.:36:52.

was sarcastic. His people were waiting for him to say, if I lose...

:36:53.:36:58.

And he said, if I win and then everybody was clapping! This is

:36:59.:37:03.

Donald Trump's style. He does not mean that really, if I am defeated,

:37:04.:37:10.

I'm going to question the election. That is not the discussion on

:37:11.:37:14.

strategic issues. So this is just Donald Trump's style and as the

:37:15.:37:18.

polls widen, do you think this is really him saying, I know I'm going

:37:19.:37:22.

to lose? Donald Trump knows exactly that his voters are not impacted by

:37:23.:37:26.

the propaganda campaign waged against him. He wants to make sure

:37:27.:37:31.

that this heart of his constituencies are going to vote. We

:37:32.:37:35.

know that he is not backed by many politicians in his party, so that is

:37:36.:37:40.

his political right to say so and under different circumstances he may

:37:41.:37:44.

not have. But that's what he did. So this is the kind of strategy that

:37:45.:37:48.

you would suggest that he pursue? I would not suggest that for the point

:37:49.:37:53.

that I am not an adviser on domestic issues but on international and

:37:54.:37:57.

national security. I would not recommend that he say so had he not

:37:58.:38:00.

been under the kind of cartoon attacks that he has for the last two

:38:01.:38:04.

weeks. You heard the previous speaker talking about people taking

:38:05.:38:08.

their guns to polling stations and so forth, that actually, you would

:38:09.:38:13.

suggest he was being sarcastic, but a lot of people you would believe

:38:14.:38:17.

and agree presumably take Donald Trump at his word and believe

:38:18.:38:21.

absolutely every thing he says and the tone in which he says it. Is

:38:22.:38:25.

that not a problem that there could be incitement? Mr Trump has never

:38:26.:38:29.

asked any of his followers to take any guns anywhere. The only violence

:38:30.:38:35.

we saw were against GOP centres in North Carolina and other places. It

:38:36.:38:38.

is certainly not Mr Trump who will be calling on insurrections if he

:38:39.:38:42.

loses, but he has been sending this message because he saw and many of

:38:43.:38:46.

his advisers told him that there are preparations, maybe not coming from

:38:47.:38:50.

the top but he is warning that he is not going to be silent if there are

:38:51.:38:59.

problems with this election like rigging. He is for democracy and not

:39:00.:39:01.

against it. The papers now and one of the

:39:02.:39:11.

presidential hopefuls says that the border belongs in Kent and not

:39:12.:39:14.

Calais and France must push its border with Britain to the Kent

:39:15.:39:23.

coast and stop managing migrants from the UK.

:39:24.:39:27.

Moving on to the mirror and the shaming of BHS boss is the story.

:39:28.:39:40.

And now we go to the Times. "Crackdown On rip-off gambling

:39:41.:39:50.

companies". And web crime goes to the highest level for 14 years.

:39:51.:39:52.

Before we go, the The Portuguese photographer

:39:53.:39:59.

Tito Mouraz has just published a new collection,

:40:00.:40:01.

The House of The Seven Women. His photographs explore

:40:02.:40:04.

the Beira-Alta region of Portugal where he grew up where,

:40:05.:40:05.

according to local legend, there is a house that is said to be

:40:06.:40:08.

haunted by the ghosts of seven women, all maiden sisters,

:40:09.:40:11.

one of them a witch. On nights of the full moon,

:40:12.:40:13.

the women would fly from their balcony down onto the street

:40:14.:40:19.

where they would seduce Good evening. Heading off to bed and

:40:20.:41:09.

wondering what is in store tomorrow, pretty much what we have seen this

:41:10.:41:19.

week. We are stuck in repeat mode at the moment. The early-morning

:41:20.:41:21.

A look at possible Brexit concessions on free movement, the super head teacher model for schools, whether or not Donald Trump would concede if he lost the US election, and the prospect of Russian warships in the English Channel. With Kirsty Wark.


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